Actually when think about it, reaching 3 finals in a row is really impressive. If we compare:

Earlier this year, LD played German, All England and Swiss in a row, he didn't finish, got injured (partly due to fatigue should be a reasonable guess) in Swiss SF. LCW played one local tournament, Japan and Chinese Taipei in a row, got beaten by Simon Santoso in QF of the last one.

So TH's stamina should be OK. What is not OK is that his smashes are much much weaker than even last year, when he can constantly smash 290-300km/h (in 06 WC).

I would also say that TH's stamina is OK, he is not too old yet (compare with Tony/Chandra or Nova or Peter Gade or many more...). At this age (around 26) usually many players reach or still in their peak performance, I think.

Reaching 3 finals in a row... proving that TH's stamina is just fine, just imagine high tight his matches againts LCW in JO and CJ in this MO. He could be win, but badly he lost in the very tight scores, both in rubber sets, as well as his match with SDK in CTO.

If he is now lack of energy, how could he manage to reach 3 finals in a row and played in those tight rubber sets? I think he can still play in 2-3 years more in high level.

I don't think stamina is such an obvious issue anymore in his 3 final losses. I think Taufik's game is studied well by all his opponents and his backhand smashes no longer a secret weapon that use to gain many easy points for him. Furthermore, his rivals have improved and more mature including Chen Jin, Lee Chong Wei, Lin Dan, Soni Kuncoro, Boonsak Bonsana, Ronald Susilo, Chen Yu ...
It's just not easy to win any title from Gold or Super Series as big time players are participating on these 2 series to accumulate points for Olympic.
The most important thing for Taufik now is not to get injure and keep his ranking within top 8 so he doesn't need to over-work before deep into the round and be fresh when the real challenge comes. Veteran Choon Hann learns a hard lesson playing against Bao and Chen Jin in successive days in rubber due to his low ranking of #16.
Taufik may not win any title prior to Olympic but that doesn't stop him from winning the Olympic title twice. In Olympic, he doesn't need to face that many top notch players due to quota limitation per country hence his chance is greatly enhanced, so is Chong Wei.
Isn't this exciting? I love this sport!!

I think the problem now is TH does not have powerful smashes as his big weapon anymore. Back last year, although he did not smash that many, but when he did, his smashes are lethal. They are so deceptive and powerful even LD can save only a few of them. This actually made his netplay more powerful since his opponents needed to worry more than just tight netshots.

After watching his recent play, I would say TH relied way too much on his netplay, due to his weak smashes. His game is becoming a bit boring to watch and things become simple for his opponents, if they are worried about TH's netshots, just lift/clear to the backline, then they are safe.

TH's jumpsmashes are also getting funny to watch. He is like at most 10cm in the air and then drop to the ground.

If he cannot get back some of his former smashpower, I would say his chance in OG08 is really slim.

Absolutely agree. TH's smashes are less powerful and lethal and he had developed and matured into smart plays, deceptive shots and tight net drops. Yes, it's getting more predictable to read his shots compare to LD coz TH relies on his tight net and follows with jumping smashes. The problem is, his jumping smashes are less lethal now, and it panics and confuses his own game plan.

I do not see how TH will win OG08 if he doesnt improve his smashes coz he cant rely solely on tight net shots. Bear in mind that the probability to fail the tight net shots is high if he anticipates perfect net plays. Thats got to do with the 'feel' of the touch of the birdie and if TH misses few net shorts, he is doomed to fail and lose the game...

I still think LD's game is the most impressive in term of quality and variations. TH doesnt have the upper hand as he used to be, and with his temperamental game, he may lose to another "anup" or "wacha" in OG08. And to me, that's a nitemare...

i think some of u r emhasizing TH's smashing degradation too much. I think he still has decent smashes. Look at LD, he use to be a jumpsmashing machine but now he rallies way more than before. As mentioned by Han, TH's weapons are well studied now. LD, CJ, and BCL can beat TH now (dont know if chen yu had the pleasure beating TH yet). TH is still very dangerous if his opponent don't maintain his winning tactic. In 07 JO, i think TH could had won it (over LCW) if he didn't snap his string on match point.

Players now play more competitive badminton. More competitive play means improvement for all, just like lions and their prey today who are much improved specimens than lions and prey of old. Also the NSS and the Super Series play a part.

It's totally different. LD deliberately chooses to smash less now. But when he smashes, his smash is still as powerful as before. The efficiency of LD's smashes remains the same, if not higher. TH's problem is that his smashes are not efficient anymore. If you watch TH's matches in the latter half of 06, you can see although he did not have enough stamina to do many smashes, but when he smashed, it was lethal.

In 06 AG MSF, why LD fighted TH at the net? Maybe there was some ego factor, but the main reason I believe, is he really cannot afford to allow TH to comfortably smash. If you watch their AG group match, you can see that TH's smashes are as efficient as LD's (Yes I counted, one by one).

I basically don't buy the "well-studied" theory. TH has been using net area to win points for many years, and ppl (including very smart ones like PG, WCH and LD) have not realized, for all these years, that all they need to do is lifting the shuttle to the baseline? Ridiculous. The real reason is that TH used to have two weapons, delicate net + powerful smash, not any more.

i think some of u r emhasizing TH's smashing degradation too much. I think he still has decent smashes. Look at LD, he use to be a jumpsmashing machine but now he rallies way more than before. As mentioned by Han, TH's weapons are well studied now. LD, CJ, and BCL can beat TH now (dont know if chen yu had the pleasure beating TH yet). TH is still very dangerous if his opponent don't maintain his winning tactic. In 07 JO, i think TH could had won it (over LCW) if he didn't snap his string on match point.

Yes I agree with you. Its not his stamina but rather his power. Smashing power and explosiveness. Also the accuracy in his smashes.

Anyone????? ANy other ideas????

he just needs some extra lucks :) :)

It's totally different. LD deliberately chooses to smash less now. But when he smashes, his smash is still as powerful as before. The efficiency of LD's smashes remains the same, if not higher. TH's problem is that his smashes are not efficient anymore. If you watch TH's matches in the latter half of 06, you can see although he did not have enough stamina to do many smashes, but when he smashed, it was lethal.

In 06 AG MSF, why LD fighted TH at the net? Maybe there was some ego factor, but the main reason I believe, is he really cannot afford to allow TH to comfortably smash. If you watch their AG group match, you can see that TH's smashes are as efficient as LD's (Yes I counted, one by one).

I basically don't buy the "well-studied" theory. TH has been using net area to win points for many years, and ppl (including very smart ones like PG, WCH and LD) have not realized, for all these years, that all they need to do is lifting the shuttle to the baseline? Ridiculous. The real reason is that TH used to have two weapons, delicate net + powerful smash, not any more.why go back to 2006 AG when one can see how lethal taufik's forehand and backhand smash in MS final of JO against LCW on sept 16, 2007. Don't tell me taufik's power had degraded so much since only 3 weeks ago. Why dont u give credit to chen jin for making deep lift and great smash retrieval that make taufik's smash look ineffective instead?


"The real reason is that TH used to have two weapons, delicate net + powerful smash, not any more." How would u have known this if u didnt employ and buy the well studied theory?:rolleyes: God told you that in your dream? LOL

Anyway, I would chalk this up as another 'why taufik lost' long list of excuses, he has no power.:p

TH's smashing in JO is visibly weaker than his smashes in 06. Just watch any 06 WC match, he actually smashed harder than LD, with a speed about 290 - 300km/h. Do you think his recent smashes are still around that speed?

In fact, since you mentioned, TH's smashing power indeed degraded through the 3 tournaments. Just watch his games against LCW, LHI, Sony, PSH and CJ consequtively and you will see. Attending 3 tournaments in a row has some effect, is that hard to accept?

why go back to 2006 AG when one can see how lethal taufik's forehand and backhand smash in MS final of JO against LCW on sept 16, 2007. Don't tell me taufik's power had degraded so much since only 3 weeks ago. Why dont u give credit to chen jin for making deep lift and great smash retrieval that make taufik's smash look ineffective instead?


"The real reason is that TH used to have two weapons, delicate net + powerful smash, not any more." How would u have known this if u didnt employ and buy the well studied theory?:rolleyes: God told you that in your dream? LOL

Anyway, I would chalk this up as another 'why taufik lost' long list of excuses, he has no power.:p

TH's smashing in JO is visibly weaker than his smashes in 06. Just watch any 06 WC match, he actually smashed harder than LD, with a speed about 290 - 300km/h. Do you think his recent smashes are still around that speed?

In fact, since you mentioned, TH's smashing power indeed degraded through the 3 tournaments. Just watch his games against LCW, LHI, Sony, PSH and CJ consequtively and you will see. Attending 3 tournaments in a row has some effect, is that hard to accept?
TH coach forgot to get some leng lui Korean ladies to pump some gin-seng to TH...now come to think about it, after 3 sets I am half dead playing baddy and Cooler is still running like a chicken with its head cut off, hmmm, is it the ginseng strategy....hehehe!!!LOL!!:p

I really don't understand what is your problem with TH. PG lost to many ppl these days, I would say the main reason is that he is not fast and powerful anymore. Same goes to WCH. Do you think these are "excuses"?

"The real reason is that TH used to have two weapons, delicate net + powerful smash, not any more." How would u have known this if u didnt employ and buy the well studied theory?:rolleyes: God told you that in your dream? LOL

Anyway, I would chalk this up as another 'why taufik lost' long list of excuses, he has no power.:p

I don't think stamina is such an obvious issue anymore in his 3 final losses.
I think the problem now is TH does not have powerful smashes as his big weapon anymore.
Absolutely agree. TH's smashes are less powerful and lethal and he had developed and matured into smart plays, deceptive shots and tight net drops.
..what could be the main reason for the supposedly "dropped" in his powerful smashes??..Is it because of:
* lack of stamina/fitness?:confused:
* lack of training?:confused:
* he's getting older by the minute..:confused:
* he's been playing in too many tourneys lately, which have drained his energy..:confused:
* his opponents are reading & anticipating his smashes better??:confused:
* or all of the above??..:p

I really don't understand what is your problem with TH. PG lost to many ppl these days, I would say the main reason is that he is not fast and powerful anymore. Same goes to WCH. Do you think these are "excuses"?
YES. Because taufik was deadly at the japan open only 3 weeks ago.
why are you asking me to repeat my answer twice?

The more basic reason for me is his lack of focus to clinch the win until the end. When things don't get his way, it seems to bother him too much and his over all play is already affected-- his smashes are weaker, his drops are not as poignant, and his choice of shots become predictable, which makes him go through a cycle of dissatisfaction with the outcome of his game, and thereby missing the goal of winning altogether.

Being in 3 consecutive finals is enough proof to show that his skills are still in tact, and he does not lack the stamina for these highly competitive tournaments. Dropping the 2nd set against Sony at the Taiwan Open, just like that without exerting an effort to recover is not exactly the best path to take if you want to win. If it is true that he was fuming over the alleged tipping of the shuttlecock by CJ during the Macau Open, then, that may be another factor. At their level of play, skill becomes secondary. Consistency through focusing on winning spells the difference

He is undoubtedly one of the best players of his time, but it seems that he is struggling within himself too much, which makes him miss the opportunity to beat his opponents

Even the young CJ did not let his frustration get the better of him, when he made a service error on the last crucial points of his match w/ WCH in the semi finals. That kind of mindset made the difference in clinching matchpoint-- not a stronger smash, not a better stamina, or not even luck

TH has recorded a 300kmh jumpsmash in JO... watch the one with the english commentary... i heard it there... anyhow, the best thing to do is to ask taufik why his smashes are getting weaker...that way, you'll get the answer first hand... :D

My guess is TH is trying to collect as much ranking point for himself and at the same time try not to get injured. Yes his smashes are not as hard as before, but I doubt that he actually have lost that skill.

The more basic reason for me is his lack of focus to clinch the win until the end. When things don't get his way, it seems to bother him too much and his over all play is already affected-- his smashes are weaker, his drops are not as poignant, and his choice of shots become predictable, which makes him go through a cycle of dissatisfaction with the outcome of his game, and thereby missing the goal of winning altogether.

Being in 3 consecutive finals is enough proof to show that his skills are still in tact, and he does not lack the stamina for these highly competitive tournaments. Dropping the 2nd set against Sony at the Taiwan Open, just like that without exerting an effort to recover is not exactly the best path to take if you want to win. If it is true that he was fuming over the alleged tipping of the shuttlecock by CJ during the Macau Open, then, that may be another factor. At their level of play, skill becomes secondary. Consistency through focusing on winning spells the difference

He is undoubtedly one of the best players of his time, but it seems that he is struggling within himself too much, which makes him miss the opportunity to beat his opponents

Even the young CJ did not let his frustration get the better of him, when he made a service error on the last crucial points of his match w/ WCH in the semi finals. That kind of mindset made the difference in clinching matchpoint-- not a stronger smash, not a better stamina, or not even luck

the main enemy now of TH is himself. if he wants to win, he needs to overcome his "inner self" first. ;)

I really don't understand what is your problem with TH. PG lost to many ppl these days, I would say the main reason is that he is not fast and powerful anymore. Same goes to WCH. Do you think these are "excuses"?
I would concludes in terms of backhand powerful play.. WCH plays much more better than TH in this MCO.. :rolleyes:

My guess is TH is trying to collect as much ranking point for himself and at the same time try not to get injured. Yes his smashes are not as hard as before, but I doubt that he actually have lost that skill.

He simply hasn't been practicing enough in the last 6 months, and since his baby was born. When he gets his mind into it, I'm sure he'll be able to win tournaments again and become the best, not just simply a "formidable opponent". As a Taufik fan, I hope he peaks at the right time next year (i.e. OG008).

LD was deadly in German open, deadly in AE, why is he not deadly anymore in Swiss (Even before his injury burst, his 1st game against Simon was very close)? LCW was deadly in Japan, why is he not deadly anymore in Taipei? These two are among the fittest guys, if their performance drops after attending 2 or 3 tournaments in a row, what is wrong for TH, the most unfit MS player, to appear the same?

Also, if you know Chinese, I suggest you google and find some game statistics by this id 陶非克（or 陶菲克）. He counted every rally in the TH - LCW game. 18% of TH's smashes hit the ground, while 27% of LCW's win points. If you call 18% deadly, how do you describe 27%?

Btw, if you call "PG lost to many ppl these days, I would say the main reason is that he is not fast and powerful anymore." a "excuse" for PG's losses, then I have to say you have a weird standard for "excuses".

YES. Because taufik was deadly at the japan open only 3 weeks ago.
why are you asking me to repeat my answer twice?

Are you saying he is really changing diapers during midnight etc.? If that's the case, I would salute him for getting into 3 finals in a row! :D

He simply hasn't been practicing enough in the last 6 months, and since his baby was born. When he gets his mind into it, I'm sure he'll be able to win tournaments again and become the best, not just simply a "formidable opponent". As a Taufik fan, I hope he peaks at the right time next year (i.e. OG008).

LD was deadly in German open, deadly in AE, why is he not deadly anymore in Swiss (Even before his injury burst, his 1st game against Simon was very close)? LCW was deadly in Japan, why is he not deadly anymore in Taipei? These two are among the fittest guys, if their performance drops after attending 2 or 3 tournaments in a row, what is wrong for TH, the most unfit MS player, to appear the same?

Also, if you know Chinese, I suggest you google and find some game statistics by this id 陶非克（or 陶菲克）. He counted every rally in the TH - LCW game. 18% of TH's smashes hit the ground, while 27% of LCW's win points. If you call 18% deadly, how do you describe 27%?

Btw, if you call "PG lost to many ppl these days, I would say the main reason is that he is not fast and powerful anymore." a "excuse" for PG's losses, then I have to say you have a weird standard for "excuses".
did he counted TH's smashes into LCW's body as well?
I thot we are talking about TH's lack of power, NOT lack of accuracy.
Power and accuracy are 2 different things.:rolleyes:
I watched the JO too, lcw smashes were steep, deceptive, and accurate. LCW has the best slicing smash in my book. Slicing smash is not all power in my book. I take accuracy over power anyday.

As discussed by maryanne, TH lack focus, not power.

Tough to play 3 tournaments in a month and it dose have an effect on TH's power plus TH's stamina was not used to be.....TH needs to focus and a bit more discipline if he wants to achieve more results.
I have to say that playing in Macau or in Las Vegas ( for tennis) does have a lot of temptations.....
TH is known for being himself( boss), he is lack of training but lucily he has natural talent..I wish TH has more discipline like CHN team then TH will be much stronger...
Please note that after his marriage and he does have comfortable life, he has different motivation...
Being 3 times of runner up is not bad.....

I don't see a point of pointing out the skill factor of a player when it comes to winning or losing. Also that I do not think that this type of discussion is relative to how we think the player inefficiency that causes their lost. I believe that most of you guys played baddy long enough to realize that your technique can be studied and mimicked by other people too and sometimes even use your most deceptive shots and turn it into your weakness. The point is, everyone is trying to pin point the weakness to gain the advantage over the other especially if the opponent gets comfortable with your playing style. There is nothing as "having the most powerful smash" will definitely score you points, baddy requires intelligence. Taufik definitely is one of the smartest player out there with confusing placement of shuttles. Who knows that his intention is only to be unleashed in the Olympics? maybe he just want to maintain the world ranking now and trash everyone else in Olympics again?? who knows?? :p

I don't think I was talking about accuracy.

Now seems you are a TH fan. Basically what I am saying is that TH is not above players like CJ, LHI, Sony anymore; But you say he is just lacking focus -- translate: TH lost to CJ because he didn't want to win... :D

did he counted TH's smashes into LCW's body as well?
I thot we are talking about TH's lack of power, NOT lack of accuracy.
Power and accuracy are 2 different things.:rolleyes:
I watched the JO too, lcw smashes were steep, deceptive, and accurate. LCW has the best slicing smash in my book. Slicing smash is not all power in my book. I take accuracy over power anyday.

As discussed by maryanne, TH lack focus, not power.

I don't think I was talking about accuracy.

Now seems you are a TH fan. Basically what I am saying is that TH is not above players like CJ, LHI, Sony anymore; But you say he is just lacking focus -- translate: TH lost to CJ because he didn't want to win... :D

There is parity among the top players...and TH is not the TH of old but come OLY time, TH is the most dangerous one out there...he has nothing to lose, having won OLY gold before and with people saying he may not win, that actually may play out in his favour with much less pressure and expectation...and I suspect TH wanna to screw up LD party...I wouldn't bet against TH and I am certain, come OLY time TH will be prepared for a last hurray.;)

Who knows that his intention is only to be unleashed in the Olympics? maybe he just want to maintain the world ranking now and trash everyone else in Olympics again?? who knows?? :p
There is parity among the top players...and TH is not the TH of old but come OLY time, TH is the most dangerous one out there...he has nothing to lose, having won OLY gold before and with people saying he may not win, that actually may play out in his favour with much less pressure and expectation...
..that’s what Taufik is prepping & aiming for:confused:..Remember back in 2003-2004, prior to the Athens Olympics, as I recall Taufik hardly won any significant titles/tourneys, partly because his future in Pelatnas and his coach's future were in limbo (he only won 2 tourneys, 2003 Indonesian Open and 2004 Asian Championships (http://www.internationalbadminton.org/playerinfo.asp?playerid=10337))..But came the Olympics, and w/the return of coach Mulyo, Taufik was once again motivated, re-energized and hungry; well, in addition to the early exit by LinDan..

And perhaps, prior to the OG next yr, Taufik will proclaim to the badminton world that “If i failed to win the 2007 World Championships, I will now dedicate the 2008 Olympics Gold medal to my daughter”..:p:cool:

Btw, in regards to the topic at hand, our Master NGP's post hits the gong here;). And IMO, the last question is the ultimate question for Taufik (and all of the badminton world) :
Naw, I don't think TH needs extra luck. He just needs to train harder; more specifically fitness. TH needs to work on stamina and get more fit (lose weight) to get in a better position to hit his shots.

If TH does this, it will be very hard to beat him. In fact, if he gets back into shape, I think he can be # 1.

TH, do you hear me? Panda says you can be # 1 if you get into shape. I think TH knows it too.

The question is, is TH willing to dedicate himself to this?

:D

I don't think I was talking about accuracy.

Now seems you are a TH fan. Basically what I am saying is that TH is not above players like CJ, LHI, Sony anymore; But you say he is just lacking focus -- translate: TH lost to CJ because he didn't want to win... :D
sigh.
the main reason TH lost here as repeated from what i've said in another thread was that chen jin /chinese team has TH's game plan figured out. Chen jin exploited all of TH's weakness and didnt give TH much good opportunities to make good smashes. Alot of TH smashes were into the net which are not power related.

*Taufik lost because chen jin outworked and outplayed taufik. All other reasons why taufik lost are excuses.*
(i use color here as suggested by wilfredlgf)

sigh.
the main reason TH lost here as repeated from what i've said in another thread was that chen jin /chinese team has TH's game plan figured out. Chen jin exploited all of TH's weakness and didnt give TH much good opportunities to make good smashes. Alot of TH smashes were into the net which are not power related.
..hmm, in relation to y'day's match, i only recall 1 or 2 at the most??:confused:..of course, the most vivid one was the smash he did late in the 3rd game..

sigh.
the main reason TH lost here as repeated from what i've said in another thread was that chen jin /chinese team has TH's game plan figured out. Chen jin exploited all of TH's weakness and didnt give TH much good opportunities to make good smashes. Alot of TH smashes were into the net which are not power related.

*Taufik lost because chen jin outworked and outplayed taufik. All other reasons why taufik lost are excuses.*
(i use color here as suggested by wilfredlgf)
There are not many smashes into net but TH smashed more WIDE at least 5 or 6 smashes....his accuracy in this tournament is less...may be after 3 tournaments really affected his game..he needs some rest but for coming Denmark and French will be tough as he only has 2 weeks to rest....now all chinese are playing Olympic test...

Interesting idea. So you are saying TH is still the same TH, just CJ now knows how to beat him? TH has been playing for about 10 years and suddenly ppl get smarter and figured out how to beat him?

Can you elaborate what are the "weakness"es CJ exploited? What kept LD in 05WC or 06 AG from exploiting the same weakness?

sigh.
the main reason TH lost here as repeated from what i've said in another thread was that chen jin /chinese team has TH's game plan figured out. Chen jin exploited all of TH's weakness and didnt give TH much good opportunities to make good smashes. Alot of TH smashes were into the net which are not power related.

*Taufik lost because chen jin outworked and outplayed taufik. All other reasons why taufik lost are excuses.*
(i use color here as suggested by wilfredlgf)

TH, except for a few first games, basically has no control over his smashes anymore. Some of them are like >1 meter wide. Outrageous. He should ask ZJH to teach him how to do those crisp smashes with his wrist. :cool:

There are not many smashes into net but TH smashed more WIDE at least 5 or 6 smashes....his accuracy in this tournament is less...may be after 3 tournaments really affected his game..he needs some rest but for coming Denmark and French will be tough as he only has 2 weeks to rest....now all chinese are playing Olympic test...

Interesting idea. So you are saying TH is still the same TH, just CJ now knows how to beat him? TH has been playing for about 10 years and suddenly ppl get smarter and figured out how to beat him? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: i said that, Han said that, bananakid said that, and now u said that too. LOL


Can you elaborate what are the "weakness"es CJ exploited? What kept LD in 05WC or 06 AG from exploiting the same weakness
I've made my assessment on LD's loss in 05 WC and 06 AG individual event many times before already in several other threads before already. U make it sounds like 06 AG individual MS event is THE event:rolleyes: LD had beaten TH twice in the same week of 06 AG in other events.:rolleyes: Wake up my boy, the reason TH in macau final is that several big names weren't there.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: i said that, Han said that, bananakid said that, and now u said that too. LOL


I've made my assessment on LD's loss in 05 WC and 06 AG individual event many times before already in several other threads before already. U make it sounds like 06 AG individual MS event is THE event:rolleyes: LD had beaten TH twice in the same week of 06 AG in other events.:rolleyes: Wake up my boy, the reason TH in macau final is that several big names weren't there.

so what.. in JO when several big names were there (including Lindan),taufik could still manage to the final.. did you tried to find 'excuse' why taufik can qualify to the final' meh.. ? :p... you have 12 K posts but still can't 'act' wisely :p

so what.. in JO when several big names were there (including Lindan),taufik could still manage to the final.. did you tried to find 'excuse' why taufik can qualify to the final' meh.. ? :p... you have 12 K posts but still can't 'act' wisely :pi didnt say TH's effort in the 07 JO was luck. I was just referrring to the macau open where even chen jin (beaten by boonsak, susilo, etc just recently) can man handle taufik.

A guy (taufik) ranked #10 (at time of writing) doesnt deserve to be labelled as Mr Runner. BCL still rank higher than taufik.

so what.. in JO when several big names were there (including Lindan),taufik could still manage to the final.. did you tried to find 'excuse' why taufik can qualify to the final' meh.. ? :p... you have 12 K posts but still can't 'act' wisely :p13K -2 posts:p hehe

13K -2 posts:p hehe

damn... we (th fans/ina fans) have fed up you :D :p, i belive we have 50% 'contribution' of your posts :p

i didnt say TH's effort in the 07 JO was luck. I was just referrring to the macau open where even chen jin (beaten by boonsak, susilo, etc just recently) can man handle taufik.

A guy (taufik) ranked #10 (at time of writing) doesnt deserve to be labelled as Mr Runner. BCL still rank higher than taufik.

i can also say chen jin won mo becos several big names weren't there' too :p... or Chen hong did WO :p
it's not ina camp/TH fns who labelled TH Mr runnerup.. i believe they (the ones who labelled) meant to 'laugh' at TH due to his failure in 3rd finals in a row

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: i said that, Han said that, bananakid said that, and now u said that too. LOL


I've made my assessment on LD's loss in 05 WC and 06 AG individual event many times before already in several other threads before already. U make it sounds like 06 AG individual MS event is THE event:rolleyes: LD had beaten TH twice in the same week of 06 AG in other events.:rolleyes: Wake up my boy, the reason TH in macau final is that several big names weren't there.
The reason why LD pulled out of MCO was because he didn't have the guts to meet TH in the QF.It can't be injury because this is the second time BOTH LD and CY withdraw together at the last minute.(First time was IO07.)Strange, isn't it?

Another problem with TH is that:
He seems not focus on his match.
On TV live(Macau OPEN final), I saw him turn to watch WD twice ro three times.
How can a player win a match absent-mindedly

Another problem with TH is that:
He seems not focus on his match.
On TV live(Macau OPEN final), I saw him turn to watch WD twice ro three times.
How can a player win a match absent-mindedly
..if that's the case, then next time they should hang a large curtain(s) or divider(s) next to Taufik's court, so he won't have any slight chance of peeking at what's going on in the next court(s)..:rolleyes::p;)

No, actually Taufik has done that before, and he still won those matches..;)

Couldn't you just simply tell me what are the "weakness"es CJ exploited? Give a foundation to your whole theory man! :eek:

Of course the MSF is "the" event. Remember LD's reason why he lost to LHI in the group final? He said he was thinking about the individual event and didn't prepare well. So you see which one is more important to LD, group final or individual first round. :cool:

I've made my assessment on LD's loss in 05 WC and 06 AG individual event many times before already in several other threads before already. U make it sounds like 06 AG individual MS event is THE event:rolleyes: LD had beaten TH twice in the same week of 06 AG in other events.:rolleyes: Wake up my boy, the reason TH in macau final is that several big names weren't there.

i can also say chen jin won mo becos several big names weren't there' too :p... or Chen hong did WO :p


The reason why LD pulled out of MCO was because he didn't have the guts to meet TH in the QF.It can't be injury because this is the second time BOTH LD and CY withdraw together at the last minute.(First time was IO07.)Strange, isn't it?



yes, i dont disagree with that. However, LYB knows that if chen jin can beat TH for the second time (from my memory), then china basically has figured out TH game plan. There's no need to prove if LD or BCL can still take on TH. Chen jin is just a baby brother of LD and BCL in the chinese team.

Couldn't you just simply tell me what are the "weakness"es CJ exploited? Give a foundation to your whole theory man! :eek:

Of course the MSF is "the" event. Remember LD's reason why he lost to LHI in the group final? He said he was thinking about the individual event and didn't prepare well. So you see which one is more important to LD, group final or individual first round. :cool:
chen jin's tactic against TH is so obvious. Any badminton player should able to see what's going on. Me and many others have highlighted this topic already many times. U were able to quote statistics and past TH's success, why can't u able to read about TH's weakness?

as for 06 AG, LD was 2-1 against taufik. A win is a win, don't rank the quality and effort of the matches by the size of the medal or cheque awarded.

TH, except for a few first games, basically has no control over his smashes anymore. Some of them are like >1 meter wide. Outrageous. He should ask ZJH to teach him how to do those crisp smashes with his wrist. :cool:

TH himselve as Olympic Champion and World Champion...and U still think he cant control his smashes:eek:.......? and he have to ask ZJH...:eek:...

for me.....the main problem is lack of stamina.....TH normally exercuted good powerful smashes in First game...maybe some in early 2nd. game...but thoes smashes went wild or to the net:(...mostly in game 3...or after long rallies...this is a sign of lacking stamina to last for 3 grulling long rallies games..when stamina down....no more powerful smashes, no more accurate shots or smashes....the main problem is STAMINA....and accept it:D

i can also say chen jin won mo becos several big names weren't there' too :p... or Chen hong did WO :p
it's not ina camp/TH fns who labelled TH Mr runnerup.. i believe they (the ones who labelled) meant to 'laugh' at TH due to his failure in 3rd finals in a row

I think so..;)..its just mean to 'laugh'at TH for 3 runner ups in a row...just like thoes ppl who once labelled LCW as 'Jaguh Kandang' some time ago...:D..and certainly its not from MAS fans or MAS camp...:rolleyes::D:D:D

yes, i dont disagree with that. However, LYB knows that if chen jin can beat TH for the second time (from my memory), then china basically has figured out TH game plan. There's no need to prove if LD or BCL can still take on TH. Chen jin is just a baby brother of LD and BCL in the chinese team.

And now all three main single in Chn have beated TH.....:eek:..more than once...:eek:....:crying::crying::crying:

TH's stamina is definitely one of the reasons but not the main reason contributing to his loss.

I guess TH was not nervous but so tired that he missed a half-court smash by sending it into the net when leading 17-16 in the decider.

CJ played the big points better and outplayed TH especially towards the end of the decider.

i didnt say TH's effort in the 07 JO was luck. I was just referrring to the macau open where even chen jin (beaten by boonsak, susilo, etc just recently) can man handle taufik.

A guy (taufik) ranked #10 (at time of writing) doesnt deserve to be labelled as Mr Runner. BCL still rank higher than taufik.
Youa re such a loser now...making so many excuses.....LD could not win JO but TH was in final.....CJ is in final because CH gave him WO. thats why CJ was fresher....TH played 3 tournaments in a row and CJ did not.....should I make this excuses?....actually CH was not injured at all.....it is very common and known that several chinese players had been asked to lose to lower ranked CHN players for better ranking....

COOLER...you should come to tournament and talk to players and you will know better instead of staying in room and attacking people with no reason......it is such a shame with 13K post, you have not contributed anything...and act not wisely...

Claiming to defend Tony when I made a joke ...now you know my relationship a bit with tony and you know nothing about Tony....attacking me and accusing me for collateral damages which i have not done anything to you.....

You claimed you know about shuttle things and trying to accuse Korean/Ina/Taiwanese coaches' theory are bogus? you are such an expert? Wake up!!!!! you do not know anything yet about badminton...these people face this problem everyday and they earn their living in badminton...respect at least what they said.....how dare you to claim you know here and there?????

Stop talking BIG like you are an expert!! I am so sick of your posts and saying that you will not give any excuses...now you did give some excuses to chinese players.......Chinese are known to use many tactics to promote the players..it is not a secret anymore ...thats why some chinese players had quit...

Recently in china Master which BWF has not responded yet regarding all umpires and service judges are all from china and according to the rule,..it is not allowed..look at those final games, all non chinese players got all service faults ( 5 service faults to INA and 3 or4 to England) ...and none to chinese.....so why did you question about that since you know so much..huh??? I have talked to many players and some are so reluctant to play in china including your favorite players....so stop talking if you do not know anything.....well....actually you do not know anything......pls contribute something to Badminton central......instead of provoking many unnecessary matters to BC members..

Cool Down hauge.
BTW, any reason behind for CH to quit the match since he already left the national team..??

Cool Down hauge.
BTW, any reason behind for CH to quit the match since he already left the national team..??
I will PM you.............

Cool Down hauge.
BTW, any reason behind for CH to quit the match since he already left the national team..??

man... i understand what hauge feels. he was 'accused' by cooler that he made up his report and cooler said his report is bogus, that hurts man... i feel what hauge feels.. too cruel... hauge talked to other countries coaches and players directly.. in person, how come cooler dared to say it's bogus....

yes, i dont disagree with that. However, LYB knows that if chen jin can beat TH for the second time (from my memory), then china basically has figured out TH game plan. There's no need to prove if LD or BCL can still take on TH. Chen jin is just a baby brother of LD and BCL in the chinese team.

Nobody can beat TH for sure, including the chinese players. This time TH just lost to a fresher CJ, doesnt prove that they will hv confidence in beating TH next time. And thats why they still hv to rely on cheating tactics.

man... i understand what hauge feels. he was 'accused' by cooler that he made up his report and cooler said his report is bogus, that hurts man... i feel what hauge feels.. too cruel... hauge talked to other countries coaches and players directly.. in person, how come cooler dared to say it's bogus....

Sorry .. I have no ideal what does BOGUS meant :crying:

chen jin's tactic against TH is so obvious. Any badminton player should able to see what's going on. Me and many others have highlighted this topic already many times. U were able to quote statistics and past TH's success, why can't u able to read about TH's weakness?

as for 06 AG, LD was 2-1 against taufik. A win is a win, don't rank the quality and effort of the matches by the size of the medal or cheque awarded.
thats the tactic that TH let LD win in team but lost in individual games..TH is known as Asian games championship, LD was not.....dont you think LD did not want the asian games to add more medals to CHN team? what a lame excuses!!!! Lost is lost.....LD has lost to Simon also which is a baby of TH and Sony...Simon made LD injured......:cool::cool: still lost is a lost...dont give any excuses!! I thought you said that you will not give any excuses to any lost players? what a hypocrite!!!!!

Sorry .. I have no ideal what does BOGUS meant :crying:
BOGUS means False or untrue...Cooler is an expert....how lucky that BC has him!!!!!:cool::cool:

Sorry .. I have no ideal what does BOGUS meant :crying:

Dictionary.com
bo·gus
–adjective 1. [B]not genuine; counterfeit; spurious; sham.

abit offtopic:
he..he how is bangkok ? :D can you bring me some durians ?

Dictionary.com
–adjective 1. not genuine; counterfeit; spurious; sham.

abit offtopic:
he..he how is bangkok ? :D can you bring me some durians ?

I see. I thought it is an indonesian word :o
It is too harsh to attack a person with this word, isn't it?



Bangkok is an excellent city.. But the traffic is always congested in mid town :mad:

I see. I thought it is an indonesian word :o
It is too harsh to attack a person with this word, isn't it?



Bangkok is an excellent city.. But the traffic is always congested in mid town :mad:



Thats cruel..especially I mentioned that I had been told.....basically it was serious discussion among coaches about that incidents.....thats all I can say...again I did not make any excuse " why TH lost".....everyone can read my post....it is just ridiculous for regular peron...did not go to tournaments, etc...basically just find any articles in his computer and make him like he knows everything...thats an insult to those coaches....they live their lives for badminton...training the players to play well to entertain us....here comes Cooler....Mr. Knows everything!!!:cool::cool:

hahahahahaha................

hahahahahaha................
laughing about what???? which part is funny?

laughing about what???? which part is funny?

i think alfa-2 was laughing at samuel882.. samuel thought bogus is bagus :rolleyes::D

Perhaps TH has set his sights on OG 08', and his main objective in joining open tournaments lately is to earn ranking points first and winning titles second. TH may be aiming to peak at the right time since it would be unrealistic to remain at peak form until August 2008.

Notice that even LD has not been playing consistently lately. Perhaps he is also pursuing the same strategy and would like to peak at the right time. On the other hand, just like TH, CJ, BCL, etc. have been joining several tournaments lately - maybe they are also employing the same strategy as TH's.

Perhaps TH has set his sights on OG 08', and his main objective in joining open tournaments lately is to earn ranking points first and winning titles second. TH may be aiming to peak at the right time since it would be unrealistic to remain at peak form until August 2008.

Notice that even LD has not been playing consistently lately. Perhaps he is also pursuing the same strategy and would like to peak at the right time. On the other hand, just like TH, CJ, BCL, etc. have been joining several tournaments lately - maybe they are also employing the same strategy as TH's.

TH's strategy for major tournament is well proven :D :D no wonder other players will follow his startegy

Perhaps TH has set his sights on OG 08', and his main objective in joining open tournaments lately is to earn ranking points first and winning titles second. TH may be aiming to peak at the right time since it would be unrealistic to remain at peak form until August 2008.

Notice that even LD has not been playing consistently lately. Perhaps he is also pursuing the same strategy and would like to peak at the right time. On the other hand, just like TH, CJ, BCL, etc. have been joining several tournaments lately - maybe they are also employing the same strategy as TH's.

in MS is so competitive...everybody can beat everybody....since badminton schedule is so tight....may be LD wanted to save his energy for Olympic test then they have only one week to play another 2 SS...not easy nowadays.....look at LCW, winning kedah and JO but lost in TO...LD also. winning german open and AE but injured in swiss open..this prove that not many players can play 3 tournaments in a row..it is so tough now.....all players are human, not superman..so any upset is understandable...dont blame any players why they lost............

Of course the MSF is "the" event. Remember LD's reason why he lost to LHI in the group final? He said he was thinking about the individual event and didn't prepare well. So you see which one is more important to LD, group final or individual first round. :cool:

I agree. The Men's Singles Final mattered more to Taufik as well as Lin Dan. Which was why the defeat was considered significant for Lin Dan (and Li Yongbo too).

Who cares abt Lin beating Taufik 2 times in the group games? The precious medal was the Final.

I agree. The Men's Singles Final mattered more to Taufik as well as Lin Dan. Which was why the defeat was considered significant for Lin Dan (and Li Yongbo too).

Who cares abt Lin beating Taufik 2 times in the group games? The precious medal was the Final.


I agreed..at end Taufik got to podium as winner not LD.......:cool::cool: Who said that LD did not want the medal....? May be Cooler thought that....

highlighted what? if you are too busy to type one sentence about the "weakness", give me a link to your previous post about it.

Many ppl said CJ's strategy is to avoid the net area, just lift. But that just proves my theory, nowadays TH does not have decent smashes anymore. So you need to give some other theory.

Btw, do you really think CJ's win over TH that significant? Sony did it more comfortably, LHI, PSH almost did it. Maybe all these guys suddenly woke up and understood how to play TH, haha. :D

chen jin's tactic against TH is so obvious. Any badminton player should able to see what's going on. Me and many others have highlighted this topic already many times. U were able to quote statistics and past TH's success, why can't u able to read about TH's weakness?

as for 06 AG, LD was 2-1 against taufik. A win is a win, don't rank the quality and effort of the matches by the size of the medal or cheque awarded.

just to remember TH's finest moments. pls check this URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQiYwtOhpLo.
Taufik Hidayat highlights OG 2004 - SF - set 1

Perhaps TH has set his sights on OG 08', and his main objective in joining open tournaments lately is to earn ranking points first and winning titles second. TH may be aiming to peak at the right time since it would be unrealistic to remain at peak form until August 2008.

Notice that even LD has not been playing consistently lately. Perhaps he is also pursuing the same strategy and would like to peak at the right time. On the other hand, just like TH, CJ, BCL, etc. have been joining several tournaments lately - maybe they are also employing the same strategy as TH's.
give it up hehehe, even Indra and taufikist now have a 'realistic' outlook of taufik hahaha.

Yes, LD do get tired from playing too much too and now is more selective on which tournament to play. The BIG difference here is that LD got tired from WINNING, while TH got tired from LOSING :p:p::cool:

just to remember TH's finest moments. pls check this URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQiYwtOhpLo.
Taufik Hidayat highlights OG 2004 - SF - set 1
the good old days huh??:D

the good old days huh??:D

you are correct ;)

Stamina can be a problem for TH because, I Watch the MS match these days and they tend to have a long rally, I mean llloooonnnngg....

and I impressed with one new technique from TH , I don't know if it's new or not. When he played SDk in Taipei open, he frequently hit the shuttle a little high and put the shuttle really close to the net. I've never seen that. I think That will be a good technique to learn....

TH still can do more with his condition right now. We just can wait till the next SS and see what he will show to us!!! Finalist or Champion?????

This is a great increase in TH Perfomance and have him going to the Final really a good show.:D:D

LD realized that he could not win any tournaments anymore...so many people can beat him now...tired of winning? hahaha....hm..another excuse for LD's side....

for me.....the main problem is lack of stamina.....TH normally exercuted good powerful smashes in First game...maybe some in early 2nd. game...but thoes smashes went wild or to the net:(...mostly in game 3...or after long rallies...this is a sign of lacking stamina to last for 3 grulling long rallies games..when stamina down....no more powerful smashes, no more accurate shots or smashes....the main problem is STAMINA....and accept it:D
TH's stamina is definitely one of the reasons but not the main reason contributing to his loss.
..*back on topic*:p...*phew, cooler has stayed true to his nick, cooooooool*:cool:;)
..as far as i know, in Singles play, whether MS or WS, stamina/fitness is, arguably, the most important key. Even if one has all the skills, trickshots & smarts in the world pat down, but s/he doesn't have the stamina/fitness, then it'll be all useless. Of course, one has to have those other skills/technique & mental game pat down.

I do not single pointing any players here.. But plays a single match in one day which an hour last longer the most.. Does it required to consumpt lots of energy?:rolleyes:
If they need to travel from one continent to another & play in the same day they are landing , then I believe not many athletes in the world can produce similar form in their previous tournament... :cool:

just to remember TH's finest moments. pls check this URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQiYwtOhpLo.
Taufik Hidayat highlights OG 2004 - SF - set 1
the good old days huh??:D
..what is needed to unleash those seemingly tireless jumpsmashes..:cool:

Don't think that's a new technique. TH has been doing that for quite a while after his marriage and I think he is doing that too much lately. It shows how desperate he is to win a point directly by tight netshots. One or two years ago he was satisfied if his netshots cause the opponents to lift a bit short, but nowadays he has to win points directly from netshots. :cool:

Stamina can be a problem for TH because, I Watch the MS match these days and they tend to have a long rally, I mean llloooonnnngg....

and I impressed with one new technique from TH , I don't know if it's new or not. When he played SDk in Taipei open, he frequently hit the shuttle a little high and put the shuttle really close to the net. I've never seen that. I think That will be a good technique to learn....

TH still can do more with his condition right now. We just can wait till the next SS and see what he will show to us!!! Finalist or Champion?????

This is a great increase in TH Perfomance and have him going to the Final really a good show.:D:D

..*back on topic*:p...*phew, cooler has stayed true to his nick, cooooooool*:cool:;)
..as far as i know, in Singles play, whether MS or WS, stamina/fitness is, arguably, the most important key. Even if one has all the skills, trickshots & smarts in the world pat down, but s/he doesn't have the stamina/fitness, then it'll be all useless. Of course, one has to have those other skills/technique & mental game pat down.

his heart is too 'cool'.. you know what i mean :D

LD realized that he could not win any tournaments anymore...so many people can beat him now...tired of winning? hahaha....hm..another excuse for LD's side....

yes, but LD still won more than others. haha, so shame on others.

yes, but LD still won more than others. haha, so shame on others.

i can also say shame on lindan, he won many tournaments but failed in Olympic :D :D.. no offense lol :p

just to remember TH's finest moments. pls check this URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQiYwtOhpLo.
Taufik Hidayat highlights OG 2004 - SF - set 1

TH smashes actually skim across the court surfaces, any baddy player can recognize how hard those smashes are. When I smash, the birdie would stay exactly it lands on the court and not go one inch further:D...hehehe!!!

Hauge: On the humour side of things, when you posted "...LD has lost to Simon also which is a baby of TH and Sony...;) Rumours have it that TH has a son prior to marrying Amy, now we know that Simon is the son of not only TH but Sony as well:p....hehehe!!!

i have a feeling its after he switched to at900T that his smash weakened, not too sure

it could also be TH's lifestyle like too much nightlife, smoking and drinking. (based from some sources).