It seems they have absolutely no confidence when facing KKK/TBH. They were doomed to lose even before the game started. What the hell. This definitely is not a champion spirit. When CY/FHF were beaten by KKK/TBH time after time, they still had confidence and were full of fighting spirit, that's why they can revenge when KKK/TBH's form dropped.

Kido/Setiawan should talk to some psychiatrist. :cool:

It seems they have absolutely no confidence when facing KKK/TBH. They were doomed to lose even before the game started. What the hell. This definitely is not a champion spirit. When CY/FHF were beaten by KKK/TBH time after time, they still had confidence and were full of fighting spirit, that's why they can revenge when KKK/TBH's form dropped.

Kido/Setiawan should talk to some psychiatrist. :cool:

KKK/TBH can easily be defeated by Luluk/Alven
Luluk/Alven can easily be defeated by Fu/Cai
Fu/Cai can easily be defeated by WWW/TTF
WWW/TTF can easily be defeated by Kido/Hendra
Kido/Hendra can easily be defeated by KKK/TBH

Koo and Tan appear to be Kido and Setiawan's blind spot....

It seems they have absolutely no confidence when facing KKK/TBH. They were doomed to lose even before the game started. What the hell. This definitely is not a champion spirit. When CY/FHF were beaten by KKK/TBH time after time, they still had confidence and were full of fighting spirit, that's why they can revenge when KKK/TBH's form dropped.

Kido/Setiawan should talk to some psychiatrist. :cool:

As an observation, they looked so serious compared to KKK-TBH. Maybe they were too tense.

KKK/TBH can easily be defeated by Luluk/Alven
Luluk/Alven can easily be defeated by Fu/Cai
Fu/Cai can easily be defeated by WWW/TTF
WWW/TTF can easily be defeated by Kido/Hendra
Kido/Hendra can easily be defeated by KKK/TBH


Indra, I hope there is no time limit, expiry date, to the dinners I won from you.:)

It seems they have absolutely no confidence when facing KKK/TBH. They were doomed to lose even before the game started. What the hell. This definitely is not a champion spirit. When CY/FHF were beaten by KKK/TBH time after time, they still had confidence and were full of fighting spirit, that's why they can revenge when KKK/TBH's form dropped.

Kido/Setiawan should talk to some psychiatrist. :cool:

Thats not true...MK/HS did not play well especially MK's smashes were not sharp at all and MK's netting was horrible......that affected HS' play....give them time and they will come back..may be KKK/TBH's style does not fit well with MK/HS...it is common that pair A can beat pair C, but pair B beats pair A then Pair C beats pair B....

i think MK/HS just cant focus during the game

i think MK/HS just can't win over KKK/TBH .... no excuses huhu

Indra, I hope there is no time limit, expiry date, to the dinners I won from you.:)

X-Ball,

Yes...no time limit:)

X-Ball,

Yes...no time limit:)

A gentleman and a scholar -- I can tell.

KKK/TBH can easily be defeated by Luluk/Alven
Luluk/Alven can easily be defeated by Fu/Cai
Fu/Cai can easily be defeated by WWW/TTF
WWW/TTF can easily be defeated by Kido/Hendra
Kido/Hendra can easily be defeated by KKK/TBH

are u kidding me? they only beat them once and ur already saying things like that? hah!

KKK/TBH can easily be defeated by Luluk/Alven
Luluk/Alven can easily be defeated by Fu/Cai
Fu/Cai can easily be defeated by WWW/TTF
WWW/TTF can easily be defeated by Kido/Hendra
Kido/Hendra can easily be defeated by KKK/TBH

All of the above CAN bet all of the other doubles teams :p

The margins in MD (especially with the 21 scoring) is rather small..;)

/Twobeer

Wise words,Twobeer.

Koo and Tan appear to be Kido and Setiawan's blind spot....

That's the 6th time Markis and Hendra lost to Koo and Tan..
They might meet each other again in French Open Semifinals.

KKK/TBH can easily be defeated by Luluk/Alven
Luluk/Alven can easily be defeated by Fu/Cai
Fu/Cai can easily be defeated by WWW/TTF
WWW/TTF can easily be defeated by Kido/Hendra
Kido/Hendra can easily be defeated by KKK/TBH


1) WWW/TTF?? - I suppose you mean LWW/CTF?
Lee/Choong lost to Kido/Setiawan once this year and once last year(as far as I remember).

2) I understand your point, maybe 1st line should be KKK/TBH can be easily defeated by Fu/Cai. Last 2 meetings, KKK/TBH lost to Fu/Cai. They lost to Luluk/Alvent only once, won at least 2x (AG finals and one of the early rounds of SS).

KKK/TBH are too strong for Kido/Setiawan in that match...

1) WWW/TTF?? - I suppose you mean LWW/CTF?
Lee/Choong lost to Kido/Setiawan once this year and once last year(as far as I remember).

2) I understand your point, maybe 1st line should be KKK/TBH can be easily defeated by Fu/Cai. Last 2 meetings, KKK/TBH lost to Fu/Cai. They lost to Luluk/Alvent only once, won at least 2x (AG finals and one of the early rounds of SS).

You have a point there.. beaten once or twice is not as bad as beaten 6 times. Too bad KKK/TBH lost in the WC... if they did win against the Japanese... i'm sure they are the WChamps. Well its already pass... *sigh*

You have a point there.. beaten once or twice is not as bad as beaten 6 times. Too bad KKK/TBH lost in the WC... if they did win against the Japanese... i'm sure they are the WChamps. Well its already pass... *sigh*

Well, they learnt and improve. On a different note, you're right about KKK/TBH not at their best. KKK said so in the after match interview. Seems he haven't fully recover from flu and had blisters on his feet. If they had to play against Fu/Cai in the finals they might not have won.

Just came back from Changsha and only to learn that once again, Markis Kido/Hendra Setiawan have lost to Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong :mad: On record, that's their fourth defeat to the MAS pair. In addition, Kido/Hendra suffered two more defeats at the Asian Games and the friendly match pre Sudirman Cup. So, 0-6 :cool:

I didn't watch the match but looking at the scoreline, its about the same as the Macau Open semi-final, which is pretty disheartening. They appear to have lost their confidence even before the match started :mad: At least, Hendra A. Gunawan/Joko Riyadi managed to push Koo/Tan pretty hard in their second round match. On the contrary, Kido/Hendra surrendered meekly :cool:

X-Ball made a good point when he said that Kido/Hendra looked too serious and tense when facing Koo/Tan. In fact, this was mentioned by Sigit Pamungkas in his post match analysis with the pair after the Macau Open. Yet, Kido/Hendra still never learnt their lesson :mad:

ctjcad was also right in saying that Koo/Tan would be their achilles heel in the effort to win a gold medal at the Olympics next year. Unless Kido/Hendra can find a way to beat Koo/Tan (or at least take a set off them in the upcoming French Open if both pairs do progress to the SF again), then, they better hope that they are not drawn against Koo/Tan in the same half :cool:

it's all very relative.
some people find it harder to play against A than against B, just because their style of play perhaps accentuates your weaknesses. MK/HS are an amazing pair, their accomplishments this year speaks for itself. every player/pair/team has a bogey opponent, in any sport.

it's all very relative.
some people find it harder to play against A than against B, just because their style of play perhaps accentuates your weaknesses. MK/HS are an amazing pair, their accomplishments this year speaks for itself. every player/pair/team has a bogey opponent, in any sport.

Well-said :)

However, the record of 0-6 is really too much to bear now....it's gonna be 0-7 this week, unless either pair lost early :cool:

Kido/Hendra also have never won against Clark/Blair :eek:

X-Ball made a good point when he said that Kido/Hendra looked too serious and tense when facing Koo/Tan. In fact, this was mentioned by Sigit Pamungkas in his post match analysis with the pair after the Macau Open. Yet, Kido/Hendra still never learnt their lesson :mad:




Terima Kasih, Satay for you.:)

Why not experiment with new partnership for MK/HS to find a super pair to battle against KKK/Tbh?Rexy was brave enough to experiment.How about finding a new partner for Markis Kido or Hendra Setiawan?

Why not experiment with new partnership for MK/HS to find a super pair to battle against KKK/Tbh?Rexy was brave enough to experiment.How about finding a new partner for Markis Kido or Hendra Setiawan?


I guess they pop up occasionally to win something big like the WC and it then becomes unreasonable to split them.

Why not experiment with new partnership for MK/HS to find a super pair to battle against KKK/Tbh?Rexy was brave enough to experiment.How about finding a new partner for Markis Kido or Hendra Setiawan?

With the Olympics less than 1 year away, it will be unwise to split them up. Anyway, there won't be any better pair in Pelatnas :cool:

Terima Kasih, Satay for you.:)

Thanks :) It has been a long time since I have some satay.

yeah, 6-0 is a bit of a drubbing.
now they'll be facing a mental battle as well as a physical one, it's hard to maintain your confidence if you know you've lost the last 6 matches straight against a particular opponent.

i don't think there's any need to split up MK/HS, their combination has proven successful against all the other MD pairs (except for KKK/TBH and AC/RB, by the way, how many times have they lost to AC/RB?).
i reckon they just need to overcome the 'fear factor' of playing against KKK/TBH, they certainly have the ability to beat them.

firstly they are great players, but i think the factor is their game style kido is basicly the smashin man and setiawan is the rest but their games have like gaps wherer koo and tan can exploit easily because of their playin styles.but they have 2 change their hold game cause koo and tan are like all round players but if you compare them head 2 head kido and tan ? or setiawan or kean kiat ? kido obviosly on tan except tan is a lil faster and kean kiat is faster than setiwan but setiawan has more skill.there is olso this speed factor.but kido and setiwan are amazing and they have betta personalities that koo and tan kido and setiawan are very friendly and good and stuff but that doesnt effect you on court sadly.and they have 2 be serious because when they play they have 2 switch strategy while koo and tan just play normal cause their faster

Why not experiment with new partnership for MK/HS to find a super pair to battle against KKK/Tbh?Rexy was brave enough to experiment.How about finding a new partner for Markis Kido or Hendra Setiawan?

That will be too late by now. Next year is the Olympics. The last thing they'll want to do is to split up the partnership.

That will be too late by now. Next year is the Olympics. The last thing they'll want to do is to split up the partnership. all they can do is go back 2 the training court work on new play think out strategyies

yeah, 6-0 is a bit of a drubbing.
now they'll be facing a mental battle as well as a physical one, it's hard to maintain your confidence if you know you've lost the last 6 matches straight against a particular opponent.
i don't think there's any need to split up MK/HS, their combination has proven successful against all the other MD pairs (except for KKK/TBH and AC/RB, by the way, how many times have they lost to AC/RB?).
i reckon they just need to overcome the 'fear factor' of playing against KKK/TBH, they certainly have the ability to beat them.

Mentally, it can be a burden. Ask Ye Zhaoying when she had that losing streak against Susi Susanti. The official record is 8-2 (including streaks of 3 and 5 consecutive wins) from Jan 93 to Jan 95, but I am sure there are several team matches as well between those 2 years :cool:

Bang Soo Hyun (another top WS player and Olympic Silver Medallist in Barcelona 1992, Gold Medallist in Atlanta 1996) had an even worse record against Susi, losing 8 consecutive times between Jan 93 and Jul 95 :eek: Only after that she managed to win 3 times against Susi (excluding the win at the SF of Atlanta Olympics).

Kido/Hendra lost twice (All England and World Championships 2006) to Clark/Blair.

have clark/blair split up?

blair was playing with lindley, even though clark's fit .... unless of course clark is concentrating on XD.

Another example will be the great Kim Dong Moon/Ra Kyung Min vs Zhang Jun/Gao Ling. The official record is 10-3 to Kim/Ra, including 2 and 7 straight victories right up to the Sydney 2000 and Athens 2004. Yet, we all know who won both Olympics :cool:

Well, they learnt and improve. On a different note, you're right about KKK/TBH not at their best. KKK said so in the after match interview. Seems he haven't fully recover from flu and had blisters on his feet. If they had to play against Fu/Cai in the finals they might not have won.

Koo/Tan's best performances were in the Asian Games and All-England. The rest of the tournaments, they weren't at their best, though they did manage to win more titles.

Fu and Cai weren't that great either this week. They were totally out of sorts against the aged Danes, even the usually dependable Cai was making simple errors. They played better losing out to Choong/Lee in World Championships.

In fact, Eriksen/Lundgaard should have taken the match in straight games. Excellent performance from the old men, one wonders if ever any younger Danish pair will take their place. Maybe Boe/Mogensen, but they just got back.

The Sidek brothers had similar problems as Kido/Setiawan, they never managed to beat Park Joo Bong/Kim Moon Soo initially. But through persistence, they finally did win a few times, so I am pretty sure one day Kido/Setiawan will manage to upstage Koo/Tan.

Well-said :)

However, the record of 0-6 is really too much to bear now....it's gonna be 0-7 this week, unless either pair lost early :cool:

Kido/Hendra also have never won against Clark/Blair :eek:

The good news is that Clark/blair wont play together...as far as I know.....
MK/HS needs to be a bit relax when facing KKK/TBh as they have nothing to lose...in DO...Joko/hendra played much better against KKK/TBH as these 2 are taller so their service is bit higher....

Yeah.. Maybe Markis' height is a problem..

Yeah.. Maybe Markis' height is a problem..

The root of the problem is perhaps the serves? Koo/Tan's serves are certainly of a higher quality than Kido/Hendra :cool:

Koo/Tan's best performances were in the Asian Games and All-England. The rest of the tournaments, they weren't at their best, though they did manage to win more titles.

Fu and Cai weren't that great either this week. They were totally out of sorts against the aged Danes, even the usually dependable Cai was making simple errors. They played better losing out to Choong/Lee in World Championships.

In fact, Eriksen/Lundgaard should have taken the match in straight games. Excellent performance from the old men, one wonders if ever any younger Danish pair will take their place. Maybe Boe/Mogensen, but they just got back.
I do not think Feng Yun Looks such fragile in their SF match.. what they mainly lack of is probably their fighting spirits , the area which usually haunted them :cool:
Anyway, the thread is about MK/HS. so..... ;)

yeah, 6-0 is a bit of a drubbing.
now they'll be facing a mental battle as well as a physical one, it's hard to maintain your confidence if you know you've lost the last 6 matches straight against a particular opponent.

i don't think there's any need to split up MK/HS, their combination has proven successful against all the other MD pairs (except for KKK/TBH and AC/RB, by the way, how many times have they lost to AC/RB?).
i reckon they just need to overcome the 'fear factor' of playing against KKK/TBH, they certainly have the ability to beat them.

i think MK/HS just need time just like KKK/TBH did before, did you guys remember how BAO defeat LCW in WC even he never defeat LCW in the previous matches.
abuthen.......i still support MAS players = =

With the NSS, the main keys to win games is which pair making the less mistakes.. Especially on the serve, one lousy server or fault call could be the turning point of the match.
Although Indra did tell us all the facts, i highly doubt that it will be a permanent list.. Whoever play with less mistakes during their games, will surely in driven seats to win that match...

i think MK/HS just need time just like KKK/TBH did before, did you guys remember how BAO defeat LCW in WC even he never defeat LCW in the previous matches.
abuthen.......i still support MAS players = =

Personally , i do not wish to see a player lost consecutively to another on many tournaments.. There is no fun at all :mad:

Personally , i do not wish to see a player lost consecutively to another on many tournaments.. There is no fun at all :mad:

yup, but you can't fully understand them, can you?
when your favorite player lost, you scold them
when your favorite player win, you worship them
when they won WC, did you happy with their achievement?

they probably will come back after they have settle down, i just wanna see a match like yesterday's final, it was so exciting.

Yeah.. Maybe Markis' height is a problem..
Maybe not.. He often able to jumps higher than his partner :cool: Height does not seen as a big obstacle for him :rolleyes:

Maybe not.. He often able to jumps higher than his partner :cool: Height does not seen as a big obstacle for him :rolleyes:

Imagine if he's as tall as his partner, then he'll jump even taller.. *suicide*

yup, but you can't fully understand them, can you?
when your favorite player lost, you scold them
when your favorite player win, you worship them
when they won WC, did you happy with their achievement?

they probably will come back after they have settle down, i just wanna see a match like yesterday's final, it was so exciting.
Are you directing to me :rolleyes:
Its always fun to watch the Oldies play against the younger generations.. Fast & Furios vs Experince / Smart.
Yesterday's MD have it all - Pace/Mind games/Smart ---> a final to be remmembed. Although both did make some unforced errors, IMO, There will be no perfect games on any MD match in the current circuit :(

i think MK/HS just can't win over KKK/TBH .... no
excuses huhu

No offense,but i dont think u get too excited with it,since KKK/TBH was formed by an Indonesian coach,and ur double players getting better since Rexy's there.So,stop the arrogancy while the indo still keep their mouth shuts.It's like talking craps about ur teacher when u're already better than him..:(.U're so KKK..

No offense,but i dont think u get too excited with it,since KKK/TBH was formed by an Indonesian coach,and ur double players getting better since Rexy's there.So,stop the arrogancy while the indo still keep their mouth shuts.It's like talking craps about ur teacher when u're already better than him..:(.U're so KKK..
Thank you !!!...............

(and i know ye333 must be smiling and enjoying all of these posts)..;)
it's all very relative.
some people find it harder to play against A than against B, just because their style of play perhaps accentuates your weaknesses. MK/HS are an amazing pair, their accomplishments this year speaks for itself. every player/pair/team has a bogey opponent, in any sport.
all they can do is go back 2 the training court work on new play think out strategyies
...losing 6 consecutive times to the same opponent def. says something about the matchup. IMO, both pairs have the speed & power to match up w/each other. But either one of the pair is lacking mental confidence or, overall, perhaps just lacks the mental focus when playing their counterparts. While the other pair is able to read their counterparts' game quite easily and play w/a bit more confidence.
I concur that there's no other way but to go back and train & train some more.:cool:
i think MK/HS just cant focus during the game
MK/HS needs to be a bit relax when facing KKK/TBh as they have nothing to lose...
..i would somewhat concur w/those..;)
The root of the problem is perhaps the serves? Koo/Tan's serves are certainly of a higher quality than Kido/Hendra :cool:
..the serves could be part of the problem (eg. Rexy and Tri Kusharjanto aren't tall players but still succeeded). But IMO, the difference lies in how confident each pair's net/front court game is. One example is, remember when MK & HS lost to TG & CW, after the former had won the 2005 Indonesia Open. At that time they couldn't figure out how to play against the veterans. Not until this yr's WC, when MK & HS finally figured out a way to beat their veteran counterparts. And so far, from what i've seen, IMO, for some reason KKK & TBH have been the aggressors/initiators and have able to read and react much quicker & sharper to MK & HS' game.

Anyways, we shall see what'll be in store in their upcoming match-ups..:cool:

U're so KKK..

What r u implying here? While u're trying to lecture others, be careful of yr own words too. U dont know him personally do u?

I think Mk-HS reminds me of Cheah Soon Kit-and Yap Kim hock in the 90s and Ng Boon Bee-Tan Yaakhan of the late 60s and early 70s. All these pairs have one relatively short in height players.

To make up for the height disadvantage, Ng, Yap, and Markis Jumps high and smash hard much harder than the taller players. If their smashes are not returned then no problem, their problem starts when good defence players would return the smashes away to the baseline and the shorter player suddenly find themselves back paddling, back arching to execute the followup smash which makes the amashes ineffective.

Thus Mk and Hs are good but against faster opponents like Fu-Cai and kkk-Tbh they are a bit troubled.

Just hope they dont go Luluk-Alven way, started with lots of potential but have not progress much since 2005.

No offense,but i dont think u get too excited with it,since KKK/TBH was formed by an Indonesian coach,and ur double players getting better since Rexy's there.So,stop the arrogancy while the indo still keep their mouth shuts.It's like talking craps about ur teacher when u're already better than him..:(.U're so KKK..

Well...to us badminton fan around the globe seem to hv something in common, that is we support our idol or our respective countryman to win their match. so i dont think what qidong says imply to as arrogant, its as sports fan nature.
the word no offense here or no offense there does show that ur knowlege on or as a badminton is pretty shallow.
we dont call others KKK or talking craps regard of that individual style or way of supporting their players.
our purpose of joining BC n logging in is because of BADMINTON and to makes as many badminton fan as possible to share our passion on this game.
we dont join just to be lecture by you dont we?. if u cant absorb the fans way of supporting then i advise u to buck up (i mean pack up or shut up). a good coach is just a good coach,without talent no coach can make them what they r just like LD,TH,LCW,FH/CY,KKK/TBH and many many more fine player out there.
so...no offense again ;):D:D:D PEACE :p:p

hahaha..i like your reply.. Is true.. is true..

KKK/TBH can easily be defeated by Luluk/Alven
Luluk/Alven can easily be defeated by Fu/Cai
Fu/Cai can easily be defeated by WWW/TTF
WWW/TTF can easily be defeated by Kido/Hendra
Kido/Hendra can easily be defeated by KKK/TBH

I agree on this.. Especially setiawan.. Their face shows that they are panic/nervous when play with KKK/TBH...They seem like play until don't know what to do on the match..

It seems they have absolutely no confidence when facing KKK/TBH. They were doomed to lose even before the game started. What the hell. This definitely is not a champion spirit. When CY/FHF were beaten by KKK/TBH time after time, they still had confidence and were full of fighting spirit, that's why they can revenge when KKK/TBH's form dropped.

Kido/Setiawan should talk to some psychiatrist. :cool:

Is it something like Bao alway beat Taufik. But, he lose most of the time to LCW. While LCW lost most of the time to Taufik..

Thats not true...MK/HS did not play well especially MK's smashes were not sharp at all and MK's netting was horrible......that affected HS' play....give them time and they will come back..may be KKK/TBH's style does not fit well with MK/HS...it is common that pair A can beat pair C, but pair B beats pair A then Pair C beats pair B....

firstly they are great players, but i think the factor is their game style kido is basicly the smashin man and setiawan is the rest but their games have like gaps wherer koo and tan can exploit easily because of their playin styles.but they have 2 change their hold game cause koo and tan are like all round players but if you compare them head 2 head kido and tan ? or setiawan or kean kiat ? kido obviosly on tan except tan is a lil faster and kean kiat is faster than setiwan but setiawan has more skill.there is olso this speed factor.but kido and setiwan are amazing and they have betta personalities that koo and tan kido and setiawan are very friendly and good and stuff but that doesnt effect you on court sadly.and they have 2 be serious because when they play they have 2 switch strategy while koo and tan just play normal cause their faster

im really confused of what you are trying to say here........:D:D:D

I think Kedio/Hendrawan's World Champion title does not match their status..Many pair can beat them. In fact not really tough to beat them.
After become the World Champion, consistency is most important.. U have to continue wining.. Not each time lose in tournament...

I think Kedio/Hendrawan's World Champion title does not match their status..Many pair can beat them. In fact not really tough to beat them.
After become the World Champion, consistency is most important.. U have to continue wining.. Not each time lose in tournament...

Not easy to be consistent nowadays. Cai/Fu won last years WC, but an 8 months drought followed right after that...

I really sirlute LD, hold the World no.1 for almost 4 years...And 2 times WC...What i mean is this kind of people where the World Champion status really match them. Of course i am not demanding every WC holder stand a 3 to 4 years World no1 ranking. But, at least u are good or consistance for sometimes.. Not immediate drop righ after you get your WC title..

Not easy to be consistent nowadays. Cai/Fu won last years WC, but an 8 months drought followed right after that...

they have problem facing malaysian pair during this few months:D:D

Kido/Setiawan were crowned the World Champions without having to beat Fu/Cai and Koo/Tan, and they only managed to capture the Chinese Taipei title since then. They have to work even harder to justify the WC title is not just a fluke. Let's see if they can improve on the coming two Super Series by the end of the year.:rolleyes:

Kido/Setiawan were crowned the World Champions without having to beat Fu/Cai and Koo/Tan, and they only managed to capture the Chinese Taipei title since then. They have to work even harder to justify the WC title is not just a fluke. Let's see if they can improve on the coming two Super Series by the end of the year.:rolleyes:

They won China and Hong Kong SS. They beat Fu/Cai so easily yesterday. Unfortunately (or should I say fortunately) they did not meet Koo/Tan.
If I remember correctly, Tony/Candra bt Markis/Hendra in their first two encounters. But then Markis/Hendra managed to bt them in the first round of last WC. That gave them confidence for today's match.

I believe its just a matter of time before Markis/Hendra able to bt Koo/Tan... Lets' just see :)

Kido/Setiawan were crowned the World Champions without having to beat Fu/Cai and Koo/Tan, and they only managed to capture the Chinese Taipei title since then. They have to work even harder to justify the WC title is not just a fluke. Let's see if they can improve on the coming two Super Series by the end of the year.:rolleyes:

It's exactly ONE MONTH after you wrote this and looks like they have PROVEN that the WC title is no mere luck :cool: