French Open 2007 - Day 4 - Nov 2nd - Quarter-finals

[well-son]

ZYW/WYL took the 1st set 21-12.
PG vs CJ, level 18-18

[THEbaschti]

He's about to prove his mental strengh, nice comeback to 18-18

btw what's the 'H' in Peter Gades name on tournamentsoftware? Never heard he had a second name

this question got overlooked^^

[Han]

I think PG is mentally strong.

Peter is a mentally strong veteran, you can ask player at that age to perform marvelously day in and day out. Be reasonable.

[BlaZe]

I think PG is mentally strong.

hope he proves it tonight
18-19CJ

[robin7]

CJ ahead 19-18... CJ at match pt 20-18...

[BlaZe]

ok
it's now or never..

[THEbaschti]

Damn it, Peter lost 21-19. Good job though, CJ!

[robin7]

NO. Peter lost it 19-21.

[Simoneolivelli]

Always the same story.... why peter?

[well-son]

And we can see balancing power on Greysia/Jo vs Aki/Tomomi games.
Very tight. Tied at 11-11 in the decider.

CJ just won the game.
21-15, 15-21, 21-19.
Congrats....

[rexymania]

woiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

[robin7]

With the New Scoring System (NSS), a win/loss of a match is only separated by 1 or 2 pts.

Too bad/cruel for those who lose just by merely 1 or 2 pts.

[well-son]

Always the same story.... why peter?

The stamina factor takes the main part of PG's loss.

[robin7]

The INA WD regain the lead 13-12 in the rubber.

[well-son]

Now is coming to the court, Sudket/Phattapol vs Lee/Jung.
I often hardly write Thais' names in complete.:(

[ye333]

PG already surprised me by pushing CJ to the limit!


The stamina factor takes the main part of PG's loss.

[well-son]

The INA WD regain the lead 13-12 in the rubber.

I think they are going to win the game, now leading 16-12, 17-12

[robin7]

I think PG is mentally strong.
I have read articles on Peter's mental toughness. It said that Peter would have achieved more if he is mentally tougher.

[robin7]

I think they are going to win the game, now leading 16-12, 17-12
Good for my PAW then.:D

[xlasher]

:D:DOWH..... WD INA can go far in this tournament.... hopefully they can go to SF with Flandy/Vita

Semangat!!!!

[Han]

Boy, 3 Chinese in Semi Final and Chong Wei has to beat 2 of them to win the title, not easy. At least Peter dragged Chen Jin to rubber and makes life a little easy for Chong Wei. The key is still on Lin Dan vs Bao tomorrow, will there be a walk? Anyway, one match at a time, Chong Wei should concentrate on tomorrow SF and not to be border by other distraction.
Chong Wei boleh!
Come to think of it, Mew Cho is in similar boat with 2 Chinese standing in her way. Tan Fok and Wan Wah is in a little better situation and just hope Tan Fok doesn't mess up again.

[robin7]

19-13 for the INA WD... 2 pts away from the SF...

[well-son]

Hopeless for the Japanese, match point now... 20-13

[robin7]

The INA WD won 18-21 21-19 21-14 in 107 mins.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

The longest match so far with the NSS, as long as a movie.:rolleyes:

[well-son]

Jo Novita/Greysia Polii finally beat the JPN Aki Akao/Tomomi Matsuda in rubber set: 18-21, 21-19, 21-14.
Congrats to their hard job !!!!

I think this is their best performance since recover from injury!
Hope they can go further....

[well-son]

ZYW/WYL won over JYM/LYJ easily 21-12, 21-11.
Congrats, too !!!

[hcpoirot]

Did anyone know the record for the longest match in badminton with new scoring?

Cause maybe the QF WD match between Polii/Novita VS Matsuda/ Akao was the longest match ever in new scoring. 106 minutes in 3 sets.

But sadly, the Indonesia pairs probably will not had any energy left to battle in SF. Not to mention they had to play the Chinese WD.

[robin7]

The THA MD ahead 11-9...

[Han]

I have read articles on Peter's mental toughness. It said that Peter would have achieved more if he is mentally tougher.

Then whoever wrote the article is wrong about Peter. Please, Peter is more than 30 years old and physically hard to match with today's youngster in speed and power. Only Lin Dan holds longer #1 title ranking than Peter so far. Imagine if Sun Jun is still playing, you think Sun Jun will perform better than Peter at this point, if not, then should we say Sun Jun is mentally not strong enough? There's no doubt about Peter mental toughness, physical thoughess is in question for veteran including our favourite Choon Hann.
At this age, Peter still won the Malaysia Super Series 2007, pretty good already.

[robin7]

Then whoever wrote the article is wrong about Peter. Please, Peter is more than 30 years old and physically hard to match with today's youngster in speed and power. Only Lin Dan holds longer #1 title ranking than Peter so far. Imagine if Sun Jun is still playing, you think Sun Jun will perform better than Peter at this point, if not, then should we say Sun Jun is mentally not strong enough? There's no doubt about Peter mental toughness, physical thoughess is in question for veteran including our favourite Choon Hann.
At this age, Peter still won the Malaysia Super Series 2007, pretty good already.
The article was written years back, probably 5 years ago if not mistaken.

[well-son]

Did anyone know the record for the longest match in badminton with new scoring?

Cause maybe the QF WD match between Polii/Novita VS Matsuda/ Akao was the longest match ever in new scoring. 106 minutes in 3 sets.

But sadly, the Indonesia pairs probably will not had any energy left to battle in SF. Not to mention they had to play the Chinese WD.

WOW, that's 1 hour 47 minutes :eek:.
So long.... They must be exhausted !!!

[well-son]

Jung/Lee took the 1st set, 21-16

[robin7]

WOW, that's 1 hour 47 minutes :eek:.
So long.... They must be exhausted !!!
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[well-son]

robin, can you tell me how to grab/take image like you did above?
Does it need any particular software? What's that?
Thanks.

[well-son]

Jung/Lee won the game over the Thais' pair.
21-16, 21-16.
Congrats.

They will face Fu/Cai tomorrow!

[fastdrop]

bastard kkk/tbh.............................................

Don't blame KKK/TBH for losing the game. There was a mistake committed by the umpire that made the crowd so angry and made so much noise and tried to rally behind the Japanese pair. TBH made a drop shot but it did not crossed the net, the shuttle fell in the Malaysian court but the umpire did not see and thought it went into the Japanese court and gave the point to the Malaysian. The Japanese pair complained and all the crowd inside the court knew there was an error. Instead of rectifying the error, the umpire gave the Japanese a yellow card. The crowd went wild. They cheered for the Japanese and maybe out of sheer luck, the Japanese pair came back and finally won. The crowd gave the Japanese a standing ovation and boo the umpire as he leaves the court.
The Malaysian pair became the victim. The error was made by the umpire. They have no control of that. Maybe what they should have done is to tell the umpire the shuttle did not cross the net. Then, they should have been the heroes and earned the support of the crowd.
I observed that the crowd in France is really involved in the game. The cheer for good shots and applaud winners regardless of the country they represent. Today, they cheered for Taufik but recognized the victory of Lin Dan.

[ye333]

Could you summarize LD- TH game? The statistics showed that is not a single smash point and 17:16 net points! :eek: Does that mean LD is toying TH? Or just happened that both have great defence today?


Don't blame KKK/TBH for losing the game. There was a mistake committed by the umpire that made the crowd so angry and made so much noise and tried to rally behind the Japanese pair. TBH made a drop shot but it did not crossed the net, the shuttle fell in the Malaysian court but the umpire did not see and thought it went into the Japanese court and gave the point to the Malaysian. The Japanese pair complained and all the crowd inside the court knew there was an error. Instead of rectifying the error, the umpire gave the Japanese a yellow card. The crowd went wild. They cheered for the Japanese and maybe out of sheer luck, the Japanese pair came back and finally won. The crowd gave the Japanese a standing ovation and boo the umpire as he leaves the court.
The Malaysian pair became the victim. The error was made by the umpire. They have no control of that. Maybe what they should have done is to tell the umpire the shuttle did not cross the net. Then, they should have been the heroes and earned the support of the crowd.
I observed that the crowd in France is really involved in the game. The cheer for good shots and applaud winners regardless of the country they represent. Today, they cheered for Taufik but recognized the victory of Lin Dan.

[damouse]

Woke up to bad news...WAAAAAH...

Sigh...guess no back-to-back titles for Koo/Tan now...

[chemile]

stupid japanese pair

Cpme on. Please say polite word!

[stork]

Don't blame KKK/TBH for losing the game. There was a mistake committed by the umpire that made the crowd so angry and made so much noise and tried to rally behind the Japanese pair. TBH made a drop shot but it did not crossed the net, the shuttle fell in the Malaysian court but the umpire did not see and thought it went into the Japanese court and gave the point to the Malaysian. The Japanese pair complained and all the crowd inside the court knew there was an error. Instead of rectifying the error, the umpire gave the Japanese a yellow card. The crowd went wild. They cheered for the Japanese and maybe out of sheer luck, the Japanese pair came back and finally won. The crowd gave the Japanese a standing ovation and boo the umpire as he leaves the court.
The Malaysian pair became the victim. The error was made by the umpire. They have no control of that. Maybe what they should have done is to tell the umpire the shuttle did not cross the net. Then, they should have been the heroes and earned the support of the crowd.
I observed that the crowd in France is really involved in the game. The cheer for good shots and applaud winners regardless of the country they represent. Today, they cheered for Taufik but recognized the victory of Lin Dan.

They didn´t tell the umpire and in my opinion they lost the match due to poor sportsmanship.

[damouse]

It's a bit shocking and definitely sad that Koo/Tan lost but at the same time, I think we shouldn't be too negative and start bashing them - saying that fame has gone to their heads, etc etc etc. True or not, they really have been one of our more consistent pairs, and in the world of badminton (and any sport), there's always been winners and losers. Someone had to lose, and if Koo/Tan was slightly off form while Ohtsuka/Masuda were brilliant with their form, then they would emerge victorious.

Even world #1, world champs will fall sometimes. I mean remember when the Koo/Tan won the Doha gold medal and Malaysian Open and All England? They were the "new and unheralded" pair then and beat so many top pairs en route to their win. I'm sure the Indonesian/Chinese/Danish press and supporters didn't start bashing their players when they lost to Koo/Tan so as Malaysian fans, we should stick by them rather than criticizing them after a loss.

I still remain a avid supporter of Koo/Tan although I do hope they will do better in the next tourney.

[ben95]

WOW, that's 1 hour 47 minutes :eek:.
So long.... They must be exhausted !!!

Japenese pair were most than exhausted. One of them have had a faintness (probably hypoglycemia). She couldn't walk and stay lengthened on the floor (at least 5mn) and Polii was limping.

All of them were very, very tired since the middle of the 2nd game. None of them couldn't smash anymore and rallies were mostly clear, clear, clear.... and clear

I am not sure that the indo can play tomorrow. Congrats to all the four ladies. They went beyond their physical limits.

Concerning KKK/TBH it's a pity they lose like that but let me tell you that japenese victory isn't a fluke. They have an iron defense and are very sharp at the net.

Honestly, KKK/TBH were in total control in the first set, but japenese manage to increase their level in the second + KKK/TBH were making somes errors.

[ben95]

Could you summarize LD- TH game? The statistics showed that is not a single smash point and 17:16 net points! :eek: Does that mean LD is toying TH? Or just happened that both have great defence today?

This is a mistake. Believe me, there were some smashes ;)
In the first set TH made to many errors especially at the end. Then he raced alone in the second with good agressive play. He was up to ten points ahead.
Then I though he would take the second but his stamina left him and LD made a strong come back.

IMO Taufik was too tired. 3 lost finales + danish open => too much for him. He needs to rest a bit.


I'm so sad, PG lost :crying: :crying:. Hopefully, CTF/LWW broke the curse and beat MK/HS :)

[zqloy]

They didn´t tell the umpire and in my opinion they lost the match due to poor sportsmanship.

Poor sportsmanship is a strong word. I would say they lost due to their silliness and bad luck....

[ben95]

It's a bit shocking and definitely sad that Koo/Tan lost but at the same time, I think we shouldn't be too negative and start bashing them - saying that fame has gone to their heads, etc etc etc. True or not, they really have been one of our more consistent pairs, and in the world of badminton (and any sport), there's always been winners and losers. Someone had to lose, and if Koo/Tan was slightly off form while Ohtsuka/Masuda were brilliant with their form, then they would emerge victorious.

Even world #1, world champs will fall sometimes. I mean remember when the Koo/Tan won the Doha gold medal and Malaysian Open and All England? They were the "new and unheralded" pair then and beat so many top pairs en route to their win. I'm sure the Indonesian/Chinese/Danish press and supporters didn't start bashing their players when they lost to Koo/Tan so as Malaysian fans, we should stick by them rather than criticizing them after a loss.

I still remain a avid supporter of Koo/Tan although I do hope they will do better in the next tourney.

Yes, you could and all malaysians could be proud of Koo/Tan. I think this sentence:

Someone had to lose, and if Koo/Tan was slightly off form while Ohtsuka/Masuda were brilliant with their form, then they would emerge victorious.
summarizes exactly the situation. Koo/Tan weren't at their very top form in the second and third game while the japenese were totally on fire.
I'm a little bit sad for them because of the umpire mistake. I hope they don't think that the crowd dislike them or something like that.

This is the same situation than the Kido/Setiawan match against the polish pair yesterday. Indos totally controlled the first game and then polish guys plays better in second and third game. Indos were not at their very top level and in parallel, the polish pair play very well with strong defense and very clever lifts.

But this time, no problem with the net so indos won :D

[zqloy]

Yes, you could and all malaysians could be proud of Koo/Tan. I think this sentence:

summarizes exactly the situation. Koo/Tan weren't at their very top form in the second and third game while the japenese were totally on fire.
I'm a little bit sad for them because of the umpire mistake. I hope they don't think that the crowd dislike them or something like that.

This is the same situation than the Kido/Setiawan match against the polish pair yesterday. Indos totally controlled the first game and then polish guys plays better in second and third game. Indos were not at their very top level and in parallel, the polish pair play very well with strong defense and very clever lifts.

But this time, no problem with the net so indos won :D

Hey ben, hows LCW's knees during the match against CYK yesterday?

[erin_hakkinen]

Yayyyyyyyyyy............CTF/LWW bt Markis/Hendra!!!!
(yannie .. :D :D )

[ben95]

Hey ben, hows LCW's knees during the match against CYK yesterday?

Sorry, i don't follow his match cause their were MD playing (or other MS i don't really remember).

[yannie]

Yayyyyyyyyyy............CTF/LWW bt Markis/Hendra!!!!
(yannie .. :D :D )

Means Erin beats Mei Ying :rolleyes:

[spchu]

Again I look on the bright side, we (Malaysians) have a team to cheer on in the semis rather than dont know which camp to sit on?

[ixory]

Don't blame KKK/TBH for losing the game. There was a mistake committed by the umpire that made the crowd so angry and made so much noise and tried to rally behind the Japanese pair. TBH made a drop shot but it did not crossed the net, the shuttle fell in the Malaysian court but the umpire did not see and thought it went into the Japanese court and gave the point to the Malaysian. The Japanese pair complained and all the crowd inside the court knew there was an error. Instead of rectifying the error, the umpire gave the Japanese a yellow card. The crowd went wild. They cheered for the Japanese and maybe out of sheer luck, the Japanese pair came back and finally won. The crowd gave the Japanese a standing ovation and boo the umpire as he leaves the court.
The Malaysian pair became the victim. The error was made by the umpire. They have no control of that. Maybe what they should have done is to tell the umpire the shuttle did not cross the net. Then, they should have been the heroes and earned the support of the crowd.
I observed that the crowd in France is really involved in the game. The cheer for good shots and applaud winners regardless of the country they represent. Today, they cheered for Taufik but recognized the victory of Lin Dan.
wow..sad to hear this..:(,from beginning i feel something bad will happen to kkk/tbh when facing Jpn pair and it's happened,but i should give credit to Jpn pair.Most of JPN point come from net which i think KKK/TBH advantage.Today just not kkk/tbh day.Haih,nvm hope they'll find a solution how to defeat Japan pair next time.Anyway thanks fastdrop for u report..

[carol91]

It's a bit shocking and definitely sad that Koo/Tan lost but at the same time, I think we shouldn't be too negative and start bashing them - saying that fame has gone to their heads, etc etc etc. True or not, they really have been one of our more consistent pairs, and in the world of badminton (and any sport), there's always been winners and losers. Someone had to lose, and if Koo/Tan was slightly off form while Ohtsuka/Masuda were brilliant with their form, then they would emerge victorious.

Even world #1, world champs will fall sometimes. I mean remember when the Koo/Tan won the Doha gold medal and Malaysian Open and All England? They were the "new and unheralded" pair then and beat so many top pairs en route to their win. I'm sure the Indonesian/Chinese/Danish press and supporters didn't start bashing their players when they lost to Koo/Tan so as Malaysian fans, we should stick by them rather than criticizing them after a loss.

I still remain a avid supporter of Koo/Tan although I do hope they will do better in the next tourney.

I AGREED !!!!!!! Nvr bash dem when they lose.. when da 1st tim fu/cai falls 2 kk/bh in DOHA, is oso the same as now, kk/bh falls 2 the Japanese.. They r now the pair to beat.. Every1 is aiming to beat them now..
Some how, kk havin blister. Mayb nt yet fully recover, or it bcum worse after Dennark Open. So, v shud support them all the way..

[vching]

Kudos to the Japanese pair for beating Koo and Tan.

Kudos to Koo and Tan for putting up a good fight.

Regarding the situation, Koo and Tan should NOT have told the umpire. They did the correct thing. In badminton tactical play, if you admit that the opponent is correct, according to some books I've read, it gives the opponent newfound confidence. That is why sometimes even good sportsmen, when they saw a shot that went in their favour although its blatantly obvious the call is bad, keeps quiet. That is not bad sportsmenship, that is tactical mind games, and it is unfortunate the crowd turned against Koo and Tan.

However, this defeat is only a temporary setback. THey will return strongly again next tournament, just like after the WC. Guys, don't bash them. They've tried their hardest. Just put yourself in their shoes...

Besides, the bright side of things, like someone mentioned: We know who to cheer for today :D

[zqloy]

Kudos to the Japanese pair for beating Koo and Tan.

Kudos to Koo and Tan for putting up a good fight.

Regarding the situation, Koo and Tan should NOT have told the umpire. They did the correct thing. In badminton tactical play, if you admit that the opponent is correct, according to some books I've read, it gives the opponent newfound confidence. That is why sometimes even good sportsmen, when they saw a shot that went in their favour although its blatantly obvious the call is bad, keeps quiet. That is not bad sportsmenship, that is tactical mind games, and it is unfortunate the crowd turned against Koo and Tan.

However, this defeat is only a temporary setback. THey will return strongly again next tournament, just like after the WC. Guys, don't bash them. They've tried their hardest. Just put yourself in their shoes...

Besides, the bright side of things, like someone mentioned: We know who to cheer for today :D

Well, i still think they should tell the umpire. However, in the new scoring system especially in tight games, its understandable. But 1 thing for certain, the umpire is an idiot!

[carol91]

I was watching BNP Paribas Masters live, Nadal just beat Youzhny in straight sets 6-4 6-2 in QF. Federer lost to Nalbandian in Round 3.
in tennis oso same. world no.1 can falls..

[azabaz_ipoh]

come on. i think they did a good job. came back from a slump. became world no 1. but we cant expect them to win every time and even very good players like cai yun and fu hai feng go through slumps. they haven't won lately have they but that does not mean that they are not good. sad to hear about the umpire fiasco but that's life and sports. things like that happen. you take it in your stride and you look forward and keep walking. :D

[huangkwokhau]

Kudos to the Japanese pair for beating Koo and Tan.

Kudos to Koo and Tan for putting up a good fight.

Regarding the situation, Koo and Tan should NOT have told the umpire. They did the correct thing. In badminton tactical play, if you admit that the opponent is correct, according to some books I've read, it gives the opponent newfound confidence. That is why sometimes even good sportsmen, when they saw a shot that went in their favour although its blatantly obvious the call is bad, keeps quiet. That is not bad sportsmenship, that is tactical mind games, and it is unfortunate the crowd turned against Koo and Tan.

However, this defeat is only a temporary setback. THey will return strongly again next tournament, just like after the WC. Guys, don't bash them. They've tried their hardest. Just put yourself in their shoes...

Besides, the bright side of things, like someone mentioned: We know who to cheer for today :D

I think they should have told umpire that the shuttle did not go thru.....in tennis, Ai Sugiyama and Yayuk Basuki have been voted Sportmanship of the year something...yayuk has won twice....we need that in our badminton sport...I wish Umpire did not give Yellow card to Japanese....I wish I was there....:D

[steffi_annie]

What's tournaments are coming up after this French Open????

[huangkwokhau]

What's tournaments are coming up after this French Open????
Vietnam Open.........next wednesday....

[badMania]

Only have a few spare time to post my thoughts.

It's certainly disappointing for Kido/Hendra to lose to Choong/Lee, despite leading 15-12 in the rubber-set :mad: Same for Luluk/Alvent. But, both pairs have not really performed well in the past 2 weeks, esp Kido/Hendra :cool: They were often stretched when playing unheralded pairs like the Polish pair :eek: So, congrats to Choong/Lee for avenging their loss. They certainly deserve a title for the hard work in the past few mths. I really hope they can win the title here...beating Fu/Cai yet again, if both pairs win today.

Another surprising thing was Koo/Tan's loss yesterday. Everyone (including me) expected them to stroll past the Japanese pair yesterday, yet, Ohtsuka/Masuda have been in good form this week, beating Paaske/Rasmussen, AG/Joko and now Koo/Tan. Can they beat Choong/Lee?

Another disappointing loss was Nova/Butet's 2nd consecutive defeat to Laybourn/Rytter-Juhl. Butet has been really off form lately and its probably time to re-evaluate the priority now...XD or both XD and WD.

As for Taufik, its expected that Lin Dan will beat him. It should be another Lin Dan vs Lee Chong Wei Final tomorrow.

[Han]

I think they should have told umpire that the shuttle did not go thru.....in tennis, Ai Sugiyama and Yayuk Basuki have been voted Sportmanship of the year something...yayuk has won twice....we need that in our badminton sport...I wish Umpire did not give Yellow card to Japanese....I wish I was there....:D

I agreed, I would have told the umpire. However, no need to be so harsh on KKK/TBH about their lost in QF as they did won the Denmark open title. I think many Malaysian fan would have been satisfied before the trip if question were asked about winning only one title. I am very please with them.

[ye333]

I totally disagree. Maybe when Koo and Tan are veterans, they can do as you said. But they are young now. If they choose not to tell, then the fact that they benefited unfairly may linger inside their heads and work against them psychologically.

Besides, I don't think a player can still be called a "great sportsman" if he/she choose not to tell the umpire under such situation. For example, I cannot imagine ZJH doing that kind of thing.


Kudos to the Japanese pair for beating Koo and Tan.

Kudos to Koo and Tan for putting up a good fight.

Regarding the situation, Koo and Tan should NOT have told the umpire. They did the correct thing. In badminton tactical play, if you admit that the opponent is correct, according to some books I've read, it gives the opponent newfound confidence. That is why sometimes even good sportsmen, when they saw a shot that went in their favour although its blatantly obvious the call is bad, keeps quiet. That is not bad sportsmenship, that is tactical mind games, and it is unfortunate the crowd turned against Koo and Tan.

However, this defeat is only a temporary setback. THey will return strongly again next tournament, just like after the WC. Guys, don't bash them. They've tried their hardest. Just put yourself in their shoes...

Besides, the bright side of things, like someone mentioned: We know who to cheer for today :D

[Han]

I totally disagree. Maybe when Koo and Tan are veterans, they can do as you said. But they are young now. If they choose not to tell, then the fact that they benefited unfairly may linger inside their heads and work against them psychologically.

Besides, I don't think a player can still be called a "great sportsman" if he/she choose not to tell the umpire under such situation. For example, I cannot imagine ZJH doing that kind of thing.

We call this kind of different in opinion the "Generation Gap". We are from the "old school", my friend :D

[vching]

I totally disagree. Maybe when Koo and Tan are veterans, they can do as you said. But they are young now. If they choose not to tell, then the fact that they benefited unfairly may linger inside their heads and work against them psychologically.

Besides, I don't think a player can still be called a "great sportsman" if he/she choose not to tell the umpire under such situation. For example, I cannot imagine ZJH doing that kind of thing.

I do agree that the sportsmenship thing to do was to notify the umpire. But under such condition, I don't blame Koo and Tan for keeping quiet. I think the Japanese pair would have done the same thing. After all, Koo and Tan were not instigating anything. It was a faulty call by the umpire, and Koo and Tan merely chose to keep quiet. I have seen many instances where players knew it was a faulty call but decided to keep quiet. It is not be in the spirit of the game, I know, but you cannot blame Koo and Tan for just doing nothing.... ZJH may not have done it, but then again, how many badminton players are like ZJH today?

[vching]

report on the Koo/Tan drama:

The Badminton Blog - Drama in the Courts (http://thebadmintonblog.blogspot.com/2007/11/tournament-report-french-open.html)

[vching]

my report on Malaysian's performance yesterday:

The Badminton Blog - March of the Tigers (http://thebadmintonblog.blogspot.com/2007/11/tournament-report-french-open_02.html)

[Oldhand]

...Regarding the situation, Koo and Tan should NOT have told the umpire. They did the correct thing.
I'd rate this as the most shameful declaration I've seen in this forum. :(
(Incidentally, isn't this the same vching who was whining and whining and whining about China 'cheating'???? :eek: )

No one with any self-esteem would condone cheating... and I wonder what kind of example KKK and TBH have set for future players. Shameful!

Look at the flip side... if they'd been sporting and gracious enough to correct the call, that gesture would have endeared both them and Malaysia to every badminton fan.

Instead, they have blackened Malaysia's name and lost the game too (which is what eventually happens to cheats). :mad:


In badminton tactical play, if you admit that the opponent is correct, according to some books I've read, it gives the opponent newfound confidence. That is why sometimes even good sportsmen, when they saw a shot that went in their favour although its blatantly obvious the call is bad, keeps quiet. That is not bad sportsmenship, that is tactical mind games, and it is unfortunate the crowd turned against Koo and Tan.

To term an incident of blatant cheating as 'tactical play' is bizarre! :eek:
I don't know what books you read... but I wouldn't recommend them to anyone who believes in fairness and sportsmanship. :cool:

I'd also like to know who these 'good sportsmen' are that you cite in favour of cheating.
If they cheat or endorse cheating, how could they be good anymore? :eek:

(There's nothing unfortunate about the crowd turning against a cheating team... it's quite the thing that happens at any civilized sporting venue.
Hats off to the French crowd for not endorsing such contemptible 'tactical play'.)

Tactical mind games, my foot :D:D:D:D:D

[jug8man]

What happen to Lu Lan??? Did she hurt herself in the game???

Game 1 was so easy. Game 2 was leading then like somethign happened. Game 3................

Any one with info?

[george@chongwei]

What happen to Lu Lan??? Did she hurt herself in the game???

Game 1 was so easy. Game 2 was leading then like somethign happened. Game 3................

Any one with info?
pi hong yan was playing very well in her home crowd in the 2nd n 3rd set respectively...

[george@chongwei]

yess!!!very happy that wong mew choo advanced to the semi final....
2day she will up against XXF...
hope that WMC can through to the final...

[Han]

yess!!!very happy that wong mew choo advanced to the semi final....
2day she will up against XXF...
hope that WMC can through to the final...

For Mew Cho to win, she needs to have more arsenal under her wings as pure long rally will not do the job. Mew Cho needs to improve her attacking and net play to stand any chance against the lengthy XXF. Good luck to Mew Cho!

[vching]

I'd rate this as the most shameful declaration I've seen in this forum. :(
(Incidentally, isn't this the same vching who was whining and whining and whining about China 'cheating'???? :eek: )

No one with any self-esteem would condone cheating... and I wonder what kind of example KKK and TBH have set for future players. Shameful!

Look at the flip side... if they'd been sporting and gracious enough to correct the call, that gesture would have endeared both them and Malaysia to every badminton fan.

Instead, they have blackened Malaysia's name and lost the game too (which is what eventually happens to cheats). :mad:



To term an incident of blatant cheating as 'tactical play' is bizarre! :eek:
I don't know what books you read... but I wouldn't recommend them to anyone who believes in fairness and sportsmanship. :cool:

I'd also like to know who these 'good sportsmen' are that you cite in favour of cheating.
If they cheat or endorse cheating, how could they be good anymore? :eek:

(There's nothing unfortunate about the crowd turning against a cheating team... it's quite the thing that happens at any civilized sporting venue.
Hats off to the French crowd for not endorsing such contemptible 'tactical play'.)

Tactical mind games, my foot :D:D:D:D:D

You call Koo and Tan cheating? They didn't to anything! How did they even cheat? They didn't say anything! Theres a fine line between not wanting to get involved and cheating. Cheating is when they go up to the umpire and say the shot was in. They didn't do it...

It is tactical mind games.... I have seen many players, Lee Chong Wei, Lin Dan and Taufik refuse to say anything when the shot was blatantly bad. They aren't cheating. They are just keeping quiet, and letting the call that favored them stand.

How can they cheat when they didn't do anything?

It would have been wrong if Koo and Tan went to the umpire and said: The shot was in. Instead they decided to do nothing. How can that be cheating? Sure, it may be unsportsmenlike, but they are not cheating.

I find it offensive for you to call Koo and Tan cheats. They are not cheats. I stand by my initial stand that from what I heard, those were merely mind games. They did not do anything.

I did not see the match, hence I don't really know what happened, but from what i heard, Koo and Tan were not cheating.

I find it ironic that the same people that berated me for alleging Chinese foulplay are now calling Koo and Tan, and Lee, last week, cheats. Hippocrites.

[sweetlover]

whatevers happened to koo n tan i will alwayz behind them....!!!
hope lww-ctf can defeat mk-hs today n book a ticket for final...!!!
MAY GOD BLESS OUR PLAYERS...!!!
MALAYSIA BOLEH...!!!

[sweetlover]

You call Koo and Tan cheating? They didn't to anything! How did they even cheat? They didn't say anything! Theres a fine line between not wanting to get involved and cheating. Cheating is when they go up to the umpire and say the shot was in. They didn't do it...

It is tactical mind games.... I have seen many players, Lee Chong Wei, Lin Dan and Taufik refuse to say anything when the shot was blatantly bad. They aren't cheating. They are just keeping quiet, and letting the call that favored them stand.

How can they cheat when they didn't do anything?

It would have been wrong if Koo and Tan went to the umpire and said: The shot was in. Instead they decided to do nothing. How can that be cheating? Sure, it may be unsportsmenlike, but they are not cheating.

I find it offensive for you to call Koo and Tan cheats. They are not cheats. I stand by my initial stand that from what I heard, those were merely mind games. They did not do anything.

I did not see the match, hence I don't really know what happened, but from what i heard, Koo and Tan were not cheating.

I find it ironic that the same people that berated me for alleging Chinese foulplay are now calling Koo and Tan, and Lee, last week, cheats. Hippocrites.
i agree with u vching....
our players not a cheater...!!!
they just played the game n lost...
thats all...!!!

[george@chongwei]

whatevers happened to koo n tan i will alwayz behind them....!!!
hope lww-ctf can defeat mk-hs today n book a ticket for final...!!!
MAY GOD BLESS OUR PLAYERS...!!!
MALAYSIA BOLEH...!!!
choong/lee will up against othsuka/matsuda 2day......
MK/HS had lost to choong/lee yterday....

[sweetlover]

choong/lee will up against othsuka/matsuda 2day......
MK/HS had lost to choong/lee yterday....
opssss...
sorry....:o

yup...
hope to see lww-ctf defeat the japanese...
revenge for kkk-tbh lose yesterday...:)

[sweetlover]

thanks for ur correction bro...!!!

[zqloy]

I totally disagree. Maybe when Koo and Tan are veterans, they can do as you said. But they are young now. If they choose not to tell, then the fact that they benefited unfairly may linger inside their heads and work against them psychologically.

Besides, I don't think a player can still be called a "great sportsman" if he/she choose not to tell the umpire under such situation. For example, I cannot imagine ZJH doing that kind of thing.

Courtesy has become a luxury under the new scoring system. Somebody found Koo/Tan keeping quiet as "cheating", thats ridiculous! They were just silly for being quiet. Im sure Rexy will lecture them bout this....

[chris-ccc]

OK, let's move on......

To the French Super Series 2007 - Day 5 - Saturday, 3-Nov-2007 - Semi Finals.

:):):)
*

[george@chongwei]

thanks for ur correction bro...!!!
you`re welcome:)

[sweetlover]

Courtesy has become a luxury under the new scoring system. Somebody found Koo/Tan keeping quiet as "cheating", thats ridiculous! They were just silly for being quiet. Im sure Rexy will lecture them bout this....
let's the papa do the job...:)
but absolutely koo-tan not r cheater...!!!

[ye333]

I think Koo and Tan keeping quiet is understandable, after all they are young and maybe was being frustrated by the tough game. It's like when ppl in desperate need of money see a wallet with no one around. Pick it up or not, that is the question.

But this is definitely not good sportsmanship. Also my opinion is that maybe this actually had some bad effect on their performance after the incident, and no doubt the same accident kindled the Japanese pair's fighting spirit. So overall they should told the umpire. :cool:


I do agree that the sportsmenship thing to do was to notify the umpire. But under such condition, I don't blame Koo and Tan for keeping quiet. I think the Japanese pair would have done the same thing. After all, Koo and Tan were not instigating anything. It was a faulty call by the umpire, and Koo and Tan merely chose to keep quiet. I have seen many instances where players knew it was a faulty call but decided to keep quiet. It is not be in the spirit of the game, I know, but you cannot blame Koo and Tan for just doing nothing.... ZJH may not have done it, but then again, how many badminton players are like ZJH today?

[ye333]

I think "cheating" is too strong a word under this circumstance. It's not like they deliberately did something. Most likely what happened is that they hesitated -- to tell or not to tell? -- and then of course the chance of being honest is gone forever. :cool:

Next time, they should tell the umpire. I believe it is beneficial for their growth into a great pair.


Courtesy has become a luxury under the new scoring system. Somebody found Koo/Tan keeping quiet as "cheating", thats ridiculous! They were just silly for being quiet. Im sure Rexy will lecture them bout this....

[alfa-2]

I think Koo and Tan keeping quiet is understandable, after all they are young and maybe was being frustrated by the tough game. It's like when ppl in desperate need of money see a wallet with no one around. Pick it up or not, that is the question.

But this is definitely not good sportsmanship. Also my opinion is that maybe this actually had some bad effect on their performance after the incident, and no doubt the same accident kindled the Japanese pair's fighting spirit. So overall they should told the umpire. :cool:

they should have told the umpire that the japanese were cheating !!! :D:D:D hehehhe, kidding only. i agreed that they should notify the umpire.

[sweetlover]

I think "cheating" is too strong a word under this circumstance. It's not like they deliberately did something. Most likely what happened is that they hesitated -- to tell or not to tell? -- and then of course the chance of being honest is gone forever. :cool:

Next time, they should tell the umpire. I believe it is beneficial for their growth into a great pair.
yup...
they just curious what to do...!!!
let's the papa do the job...
come on rexy give them a lesson...:)

[ants]

Calling the shots are the Umpire and Linesman. That is what they are paid for to do.

[samuel882]

Only have a few spare time to post my thoughts.

It's certainly disappointing for Kido/Hendra to lose to Choong/Lee, despite leading 15-12 in the rubber-set :mad: Same for Luluk/Alvent. But, both pairs have not really performed well in the past 2 weeks, esp Kido/Hendra :cool: They were often stretched when playing unheralded pairs like the Polish pair :eek: So, congrats to Choong/Lee for avenging their loss. They certainly deserve a title for the hard work in the past few mths. I really hope they can win the title here...beating Fu/Cai yet again, if both pairs win today.

Another surprising thing was Koo/Tan's loss yesterday. Everyone (including me) expected them to stroll past the Japanese pair yesterday, yet, Ohtsuka/Masuda have been in good form this week, beating Paaske/Rasmussen, AG/Joko and now Koo/Tan. Can they beat Choong/Lee?

Another disappointing loss was Nova/Butet's 2nd consecutive defeat to Laybourn/Rytter-Juhl. Butet has been really off form lately and its probably time to re-evaluate the priority now...XD or both XD and WD.

As for Taufik, its expected that Lin Dan will beat him. It should be another Lin Dan vs Lee Chong Wei Final tomorrow.

Bravo to Luluk/Alvent ! Credit must be give to them for stretching the Former World's number one into limits.
As for the tomboys, i was surprised to learn that they can stand for 1 hour & 47 minutes..:eek: Probably a record :rolleyes:. Knowing that butet need to play XD games with Nova before...

[samuel882]

Calling the shots are the Umpire and Linesman. That is what they are paid for to do.
And don't try to act smart to tell the umpire what to do.. You will probably earn yourself a yellow card too. :rolleyes:

[robin7]

Bravo to Luluk/Alvent ! Credit must be give to them for stretching the Former World's number one into limits.
As for the tomboys, i was surprised to learn that they can stand for 1 hour & 47 minutes..:eek: Probably a record :rolleyes:. Knowing that butet need to play XD games with Nova before...
Which tomboys r u refering to?:confused: Novita/Polii are the one won the longest match.:rolleyes:

[samuel882]

Which tomboys r u refering to?:confused: Novita/Polii are the one won the longest match.:rolleyes:

Ermm.. Confused of their names.. :p

I am ready for Badmania to shoot me again ! :p

[robin7]

Mixed Doubles
HWANG Yu Mi/LEE Jae Jin beat Donna KELLOGG/Anthony CLARK [7] 21-17 21-12
Robert MATEUSIAK/Nadiezda KOSTIUCZYK beat Hanbin HE/Yang YU [8] 8-21 21-11 21-13 (R2)
Thomas LAYBOURN/Kamilla RYTTER JUHL [6] beat Nova WIDIANTO/Liliyana NATSIR [2] 22-20 21-17 (QF)

Men's Singles
Boonsak PONSANA beat CHEN Hong [6] 24-22 13-21 21-12

Women's Singles
Ella DIEHL beat ZHU Lin [3] 19-21 21-15 21-17
YIP Pui Yin beat YAO Jie [8] 21-12 21-19
WONG Mew Choo beat WANG Chen [5] 21-14 21-8
Hongyan PI [6] beat Lan LU [4] 9-21 22-20 21-12 (QF)

Men's Doubles
Sudket PRAPAKAMOL/Phattapol NGENSRISUK beat Jens ERIKSEN/Martin LUNDGAARD HANSEN [6] 11-21 21-16 21-17
Tadashi OHTSUKA/Keita MASUDA beat Lars PAASKE/Jonas RASMUSSEN [8] 16-21 21-17 21-16
Tan Fook CHOONG/Wan Wah LEE [5] beat Markis KIDO/Hendra SETIAWAN [3] 21-10 20-22 21-17 (QF)
Tadashi OHTSUKA/Keita MASUDA beat Kien Keat KOO/Boon Heong TAN [1] 16-21 21-18 21-18 (QF)

Women's Doubles
Aki AKAO/Tomomi MATSUDA beat Kyung Won LEE/Hyo Jung LEE [3] 16-21 21-10 22-20 (R2)
Jo NOVITA/Greysia POLII beat Gail EMMS/Donna KELLOGG [8] 17-21 21-13 21-18 (R2)
Tingting ZHAO/Yang YU [5] beat Wei YANG/Jiewen ZHANG [2] Walkover (QF)

Note: All Round 1 unless stated.

[pjswift]

Calling the shots are the Umpire and Linesman. That is what they are paid for to do.
Agree.Nothing to do with cheating or poor sportsmanship.Any player trying to correct the umpire's call is inviting a yellow card.BWF umpires will not tolerate being embarrassed and seen as incompetent although a few of them really are.
A similar incident happened in HKO06 in LD vs KJ semifinal.There was a close net line call in LD's favour. KJ informed the umpire that it was clearly out and asked her to ask LD. LD lied to the umpire and KJ could not believe LD would be that dishonest.KJ was disgusted with LD.But really, LD should not be faulted because no player should be asked to play line judge.The umpire should not have taken up KJ's suggestion and put LD in a dilemma.In spite of her experience,she acted amateurish.Her umpire skills were questionable in some other matches in CHN and its satellites.She should just take care of 'small' matches.
However the French crowd has always been known to get involved.But believe me, JAP MD would have won even without crowd support.Keita Masuda also played XD.In R1, he had played 3 games each for both his XD and MD matches.The MD match went past midnight and they outlasted their opponents despite the odds.
In R2, it was quite clear he ditched the XD to concentrate on the MD.When kkk/tbh could not close out by finishing G2 despite a 'safe' lead, JPN MD knew they have the psychological advantage in G3.It's mind over matter.
Would ctf/lww take out JPN MD? It's gonna be tough but ctf/lww has two advantages:confidence recharged by their breakthrough win over their nemesis and unexpected freshness courtesy of their early exit in DO.

[fastdrop]

They didn´t tell the umpire and in my opinion they lost the match due to poor sportsmanship.

I wouldn't consider that poor sportmanship. The umpire has his own mind and as a matter of protocol they can't interfere because they are not the agrieved party. The crowd protested and roared but to no avail. After all the Malaysian merely silent, they did not argue that the shuttle went in. It will not be fair if we accuse them of poor sportmanship. The crowd did not like the call and rallied behind the Japanese not because they hate the Malaysian, it was a form of protest to the umpire for his poor judgment. :)

[MING PARIS]

you are right when we play at club ,I say out or in like we see! no need
to get the point because a fault coming from the umpire,
see you today!
MING

[erin_hakkinen]

Means Erin beats Mei Ying :rolleyes:

noooooooooooo...

Erin/Sze Yin bt Mei Ying/Yannie

Hahahaha!!! :D

[Loh]

What ? Do I owe you too ?

Only Alfa -- now he has 40 sticks, don't know how he will take them all in ?

Alfa - PM me.

However, HuangKokHua owes me the better stuff -- roast goose !

Of course you owed me satay, but not for this one, but previous to this! :rolleyes:

I suggest you don't pressure Mr Huang to kill the goose that lay the golden eggs! Otherwise there will be nothing for you in the future. ;)

[cooler]

bastard kkk/tbh.............................................


oiiiii mind ur language please
respect others too...:mad::mad::mad::mad:


I think KKK and TBh do not have any luck today!!!!!!
That's why they lost the points from the net points!!!!!!


That is harsh...just a game and nobody deserving being called that...you should apologize...imagine someone calling you that name...


Koo is a little edgy with a flu, dudes. So they lost today, but they will still be No. 1, watdaheck. They be back on track in the next tourney.


i think quite an embarassing for KKK/TBH to beaten twice by same country, Japan....some more, this time by second string of Jap pairs....they have not learnt the lesson yet. Same goes to MK/HS....frequently losing to MAS...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfYNkePtHjo

they lost because they knew they dont deserve to win
(if u dont get it, read the 'about the video' comment)

[cooler]

Kudos to the Japanese pair for beating Koo and Tan.

Kudos to Koo and Tan for putting up a good fight.

Regarding the situation, Koo and Tan should NOT have told the umpire. They did the correct thing. In badminton tactical play, if you admit that the opponent is correct, according to some books I've read, it gives the opponent newfound confidence. That is why sometimes even good sportsmen, when they saw a shot that went in their favour although its blatantly obvious the call is bad, keeps quiet. That is not bad sportsmenship, that is tactical mind games, and it is unfortunate the crowd turned against Koo and Tan.

However, this defeat is only a temporary setback. THey will return strongly again next tournament, just like after the WC. Guys, don't bash them. They've tried their hardest. Just put yourself in their shoes...

Besides, the bright side of things, like someone mentioned: We know who to cheer for today :Dwhat a lame excuse, calling it a good sportmanship, a tactical mind game. LOL. Look like their tactical mind game backfired. I wonder who read your blogs anyway:rolleyes:

[cooler]

I'd rate this as the most shameful declaration I've seen in this forum. :(
(Incidentally, isn't this the same vching who was whining and whining and whining about China 'cheating'???? :eek: )

No one with any self-esteem would condone cheating... and I wonder what kind of example KKK and TBH have set for future players. Shameful!

Look at the flip side... if they'd been sporting and gracious enough to correct the call, that gesture would have endeared both them and Malaysia to every badminton fan.

Instead, they have blackened Malaysia's name and lost the game too (which is what eventually happens to cheats). :mad:



To term an incident of blatant cheating as 'tactical play' is bizarre! :eek:
I don't know what books you read... but I wouldn't recommend them to anyone who believes in fairness and sportsmanship. :cool:

I'd also like to know who these 'good sportsmen' are that you cite in favour of cheating.
If they cheat or endorse cheating, how could they be good anymore? :eek:

(There's nothing unfortunate about the crowd turning against a cheating team... it's quite the thing that happens at any civilized sporting venue.
Hats off to the French crowd for not endorsing such contemptible 'tactical play'.)

Tactical mind games, my foot :D:D:D:D:D
i'm just catching up on this thread.
i wholeheartedly agreed.
glad that ur the mod and not those 'other' XXX's

not seeing/knowing it and keeping quiet is not cheating but
seeing it, pushing the shuttle to the japanese's side to serve, and then keeping quiet on a bad call, ...in my book, is cheating

Even the audience is booing the bad call. If vching and others think it's not cheating, they must have been blessed with some special powerful teaching and upbringing that we didn't get.

[azabaz_ipoh]

i'm just catching up on this thread.
i wholeheartedly agreed.
glad that ur the mod and not those 'other' XXX's

not seeing/knowing it and keeping quiet is not cheating but
seeing it, pushing the shuttle to the japanese's side to serve, and then keeping quiet on a bad call, ...in my book, is cheating

Even the audience is booing the bad call. If vching and others think it's not cheating, they must have been blessed with some special powerful teaching and upbringing that we didn't get.

i just watch the video. and i am not saying KKK/TBH is right. but the fact that they pushed the shuttle over to the japanese side means they already stated their view on the matter. and i did not see the umpire asking them at all about the incident. i think the umpire belatedly knew he was mistaken but due to maybe ego or something refuse to change the call. and if it were a smash down the side line and the player who smashed saw that it was out but the linesman said in, would they tell the umpire it was out? i dont think so. you just accept the call whether it is for or against you. the umpire saw that KKK had already pushed the shuttle to the japanese side. would he not think that KKK knew it was a point for the japanese? why would anybody push the shuttle across if they think it was their point? so i am thinking if the umpire did ask KKK and TBH and they did not say anything, then they would be very near on the line of cheating. just my take on it. again, not saying what they did was right. but if they were really intending to cheat they would not have even pushed the shuttle across would they?

[chris-ccc]

...... but the fact that they pushed the shuttle over to the japanese side means they already stated their view on the matter...

...... the umpire saw that KKK had already pushed the shuttle to the japanese side. would he not think that KKK knew it was a point for the japanese? why would anybody push the shuttle across if they think it was their point? ...

...... if they were really intending to cheat they would not have even pushed the shuttle across would they?



.
Well said...... azabaz_ipoh. :):):)
.

[eaglehelang]

i'm just catching up on this thread.
i wholeheartedly agreed.
glad that ur the mod and not those 'other' XXX's

not seeing/knowing it and keeping quiet is not cheating but
seeing it, pushing the shuttle to the japanese's side to serve, and then keeping quiet on a bad call, ...in my book, is cheating

Even the audience is booing the bad call. If vching and others think it's not cheating, they must have been blessed with some special powerful teaching and upbringing that we didn't get.

In the 1st place, did you watch the video? KKK/TBH looked surprised, then waited at the other end while the Japanese argued with umpire.

2) Loopy, the BCer who recorded the video and fastdrop were in the stadium to watch the match.
Loopy said (it's somewhere in the thread, cant remember where now) -both parties were gentlemanly, after the umpire made the decision stick,
KKK/TBH raised their rackets in apology, TBH passed the shuttle to the Japanese to serve. The crowd were booing at the umpire, not KKK/TBH -

It wasnt KKK/TBH's place to say anything, unless the umpire asked them.
Loopy understands french, he should know.

Fastdrop said they cant say anything cos they were not the aggrieved party (and maybe get a yellow card for it).
They were there at the stadium, they would know better AND both are not Malaysians or Japanese.

I wouldnt put it as cheating - as ye333 said, it's hesitating - to tell or not to tell.... then the moment have passed, they'll learn from it.

Compare it to what happened in China Open, BCL vs LCW finals, the line calls & BCL actions or inaction(read the CO threads & watch the video for that) were even more 'obvious', to say the least.

[cooler]

In the 1st place, did you watch the video? KKK/TBH looked surprised, then waited at the other end while the Japanese argued with umpire. not only watched it, i posted the link :rolleyes:

2) Loopy, the BCer who recorded the video and fastdrop were in the stadium to watch the match.
Loopy said (it's somewhere in the thread, cant remember where now) -both parties were gentlemanly, after the umpire made the decision stick,
KKK/TBH raised their rackets in apology, TBH passed the shuttle to the Japanese to serve. The crowd were booing at the umpire, not KKK/TBH -

It wasnt KKK/TBH's place to say anything, unless the umpire asked them.
Loopy understands french, he should know.

Fastdrop said they cant say anything cos they were not the aggrieved party (and maybe get a yellow card for it).
They were there at the stadium, they would know better AND both are not Malaysians or Japanese.

I wouldnt put it as cheating - as ye333 said, it's hesitating - to tell or not to tell.... then the moment have passed, they'll learn from it.

cheating or not cheating is also subjective too, depending on your value and upbringing. That's why I said 'in my book'. Oldhand's context was 'my foot'. I didn't say u must accept my belief or it is legal binding.:rolleyes: Also 'In my book', knowing a mistake and not speaking out is just as gulity as the person who made the mistake. One don't get yellow card for just mentioning something to the umpire unless he/she persist to argue with the umpire.

Compare it to what happened in China Open, BCL vs LCW finals, the line calls & BCL actions or inaction(read the CO threads & watch the video for that) were even more 'obvious', to say the least.
line calls are often too close and prone to errors by both players and line judge. BCL inaction because he himself isnt 100% sure. Shuttle can only fall to one side, very hard to make a wrong call. (except 1 in a million chance that shuttle rest perfectly on the tape)
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[cooler]

i just watch the video. and i am not saying KKK/TBH is right. but the fact that they pushed the shuttle over to the japanese side means they already stated their view on the matter. and i did not see the umpire asking them at all about the incident. i think the umpire belatedly knew he was mistaken but due to maybe ego or something refuse to change the call. and if it were a smash down the side line and the player who smashed saw that it was out but the linesman said in, would they tell the umpire it was out? i dont think so. you just accept the call whether it is for or against you. the umpire saw that KKK had already pushed the shuttle to the japanese side. would he not think that KKK knew it was a point for the japanese? why would anybody push the shuttle across if they think it was their point? so i am thinking if the umpire did ask KKK and TBH and they did not say anything, then they would be very near on the line of cheating. just my take on it. again, not saying what they did was right. but if they were really intending to cheat they would not have even pushed the shuttle across would they?that is a fair assessment too. Nice to hear it from the lady's side as well in this matter. Regarding my posts, I was mostly indifferent to vching's opinion. He made a big fuss (blog, petition, bf posts) about the alleged china's line call(s) in china open (bcl vs lcw) but in this case, inaction by kkk/tbh is considered a tactical mind game and not cheating. He seem to have different standards, depending which side it involve.

[eaglehelang]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

LOL, i dont like the "15 character min" either.
<line calls are often too close and prone to errors by both players and line judge. BCL inaction because he himself isnt 100% sure. Shuttle can only fall to one side, very hard to make a wrong call. (except 1 in a million chance that shuttle rest perfectly on the tape)>

And actions, but all that already discussed ad nauseum in the CO thread, it's over & done with.

The interesting thing I remember at the time was the BCers who went & watch the KKK/TBH vs Othsuka/Masuda match all had similar views to Loopy & Fastdrop, maybe the atmosphere on site different :D. Doesnt mean I agree with what KKK/TBH's in-action, hope they improve.

[cooler]

LOL, i dont like the "15 character min" either.
<line calls are often too close and prone to errors by both players and line judge. BCL inaction because he himself isnt 100% sure. Shuttle can only fall to one side, very hard to make a wrong call. (except 1 in a million chance that shuttle rest perfectly on the tape)>

And actions, but all that already discussed ad nauseum in the CO thread, it's over & done with.

The interesting thing I remember at the time was the BCers who went & watch the KKK/TBH vs Othsuka/Masuda match all had similar views to Loopy & Fastdrop, maybe the atmosphere on site different :D. Doesnt mean I agree with what KKK/TBH's in-action, hope they improve.

i wouldn't make a big fuss about this incident if some here didn't make a big fuss about china open's questionable line calls as cheating. If officials can make glaring error on which side a low speed shuttle had landed, it shows that line judging is even harder to be 100% certain at times. Ex. If a line judge feel that the shuttle touched the line with 75% certainty, and 25% uncertainty, he or she would still call it in. He/she wouldn't say to the umpire it's 75% in and 25% out. The degree of certainty is mostly depended on experience.