I wish for members to discuss this issue here, without any name calling, because we have seen it being done intentionally all the time....even though some quarters may not readily admit it.

What can be done? Can WBF do anything abt it? Maybe even if there is any legislation against it, the weaker team may just play not to their heart out to lose.....but what other steps can be done to prevent this?

Your thoughts on this?

I wish for members to discuss this issue here, without any name calling, because we have seen it being done intentionally all the time....even though some quarters may not readily admit it.

What can be done? Can WBF do anything abt it? Maybe even if there is any legislation against it, the weaker team may just play not to their heart out to lose.....but what other steps can be done to prevent this?

Your thoughts on this?

BOYCOT ANY CHINA SUPER SERIES !!!! AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

I agree with Indra.
Most of walkover players come from China.
What a **** !

Only way to 100% get rid of match-fixing would be to max allow 2 players per country ("team") in a superseries tournament, and never on the same side in the draw....

But this would make me sad as well.. espeically for the great Chineese players.. But I am sure WBF will be forced to introduce something like that if sportsmanship doesn't prevail..

/Twobeer

fine them as much as a winner prize

I agree with Indra.
Most of walkover players come from China.
What a **** !


AGREE WITH ALL OF U ....... and reduce CHINA to hold only 1 super serie .. :mad::mad::mad:

An option to allow for more than 2 participants for country would have to only let 2 persons per country enter the main torunament, but these 2 could be decided by a national pre-qualification event in the same tournament..

/Twobeer

fine them as much as a winner prize

Cannot really fine anyone without proof.. How can you rpoove if a player says he feels ill, or have heasdache etc...

/T

I agree with Indra.
Most of walkover players come from China.
What a **** !

Yes...just ignore any tournament, be it SS or non-SS, held by China...

Let them (Chinese Team) play by themselves...

Cannot really fine anyone without proof.. How can you rpoove if a player says he feels ill, or have heasdache etc...

/T

ya... it's hard to get a proof.. but we can see the pattern why he always/often does a WO if he meets his compatriot :D :D

An option to allow for more than 2 participants for country would have to only let 2 persons per country enter the main torunament, but these 2 could be decided by a national pre-qualification event in the same tournament..

/Twobeer
Ur quote will be highly debactable by the Chinese fans :cool:
One of the main reason which BWF can't act much on the "RENOWNED" match fixing tactics by China is becoz the rules limitation for only 2 players per country or the max up to 3 for the Olympic spot. Just my thought...

haiya.... i've called for BWF to investigate before.... from my blog... but then I got flagellated for doing that in BC forum. Everyone asked me to drop the issue. Sure enough, another blatant attack on the integrity of the sport occurs.

I said it before, and I say it again, BWF has to investigate China. Then act on the investigation results.

Maybe BWF can have a rule like this:
If players from the same country walk, then the culprits will be barred from following 2 successive SS tournaments to give them 'time to recuperate from walking'.No need for MC.

haiya.... i've called for BWF to investigate before.... from my blog... but then I got flagellated for doing that in BC forum. Everyone asked me to drop the issue. Sure enough, another blatant attack on the integrity of the sport occurs.

I said it before, and I say it again, BWF has to investigate China. Then act on the investigation results.

i will support u 100 %.. where's the guy who said your 'theory' is bogus.. no proof ? :rolleyes: :D your theory about china's WO is valid :D

hmm.... maybe we should sign a petition to BWF requesting investigation.... what do you think?

^^ I would definitely sign it.

hmm.... maybe we should sign a petition to BWF requesting investigation.... what do you think?

ya... 30,000 bcers' signs are enough :D

hmm.... maybe we should sign a petition to BWF requesting investigation.... what do you think?

put my name on the list NO. 1....

ok.... in the process of making it

btw, we are concerned about the walkovers... anything else?

ok.... in the process of making it

While you're at it, can you also state my displeasure that linesmen are taken from the host nation....Generally for all sports this has been done....but when
you are judging for your own country men, you 're bound to be bias, I think I myself would also be bias if my fellow country men are playing, so why BWF never thought of adopting advanced technology to help in bad line calls? We see it adopted in tennis, so why not badminton?


(I know I should start another thread, but dont want to start too many threads in 1 night ;) )

Maybe BWF can have a rule like this:
If players from the same country walk, then the culprits will be barred from following 2 successive SS tournaments to give them 'time to recuperate from walking'.No need for MC.

Then they just play and not put any effort into it and loose 21-0,21-0.. so what would be the point ?

/T

can I have some examples on China ordering walkovers?

yeah, BWF should invest in advance technology like Hawkeye in tennis. Each player is given three opportunities to contest a decision. If the challenge is warranted, he doesn't lose his chances. But if the challenge was wrong, then he/she only has two remaining challenges, and so forth.

Very sick of the same fxxxxxxx tactic by the Chinese coach.

Then they just play and not put any effort into it and loose 21-0,21-0.. so what would be the point ?

/T
Still need effort to turn up on court and act. Not that easy.For all the fans to see.They won't leave court with a great feeling.

It's an internal decision so there's nothing BWF can do short of a polygraph test.

petition created here: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/vb/showthread.php?p=727173#post727173

In the 1970s... INA was also notoriously practiced [but never found guilty of] 'match-fixing' the results... It was terrible! Terrible! A lot of players hated PBSI's guts for it. So unethical.

Nowadays, the very people who were victims of the 1970s practice, such as Lius Pongoh, Christian Hadinata etc., never asked their current athletes to throw away matches.

Note: INA players never intentionally walk out. Just purposely loose... As for LYB... I have nothing more to say about him. The more I say my opinion about him, the more likely I will be thrown out of BC. And he is not worth it.

Then they just play and not put any effort into it and loose 21-0,21-0.. so what would be the point ?

/T

Fan and sponsors are the ones can mostly make the difference. Fan should voice their displeasure thru the organizers and demand for refund. We as member of BF, the largest badminton organized group, can also protest by sending official letter to the organizer.
Sponsors of badminton equipments/supply like Yonex also should clearly stating the rules to the national association/body. Certainly there are lots of details and loopholes even with the rules but patch them if found.
We can't fix this problem over night but certainly has to start somewhere.

Chen Hong has done it again, he should be shamed. Only through education that can change someone attitude.
Unfortunately, it will potentially happen in Beijing Olympic. Get use to it now.
If you want to voice your protest, direct to the China Badminton.

In the 1970s... INA was also notoriously practiced [but never found guilty of] 'match-fixing' the results... It was terrible! Terrible! A lot of players hated PBSI's guts for it. So unethical.

Nowadays, the very people who were victims of the 1970s practice, such as Lius Pongoh, Christian Hadinata etc., never asked their current athletes to throw away matches.

Note: INA players never intentionally walk out. Just purposely loose... As for LYB... I have nothing more to say about him. The more I say my opinion about him, the more likely I will be thrown out of BC. And he is not worth it.

The overwhelming response in this thread against 'Match-fixing' tells me you bunch are baddy fans, I am too, but if any of you are CHN butt kissers, you would support/condone and defend LYB like "BWF did not term it illegal, so what's the problem" "if you have the power to do it why not" "I see nothing wrong and have no problem with match fixing" and so on. Feel sad for the fans who pay to watch a fixed game.
Even if CHN does not fix games, CHN will still win most tournaments because she is so strong, but by fixing and resting her players, she just enhance her chances of winning.

Chen Hong has done it again, he should be shamed. Only through education that can change someone attitude.
Unfortunately, it will potentially happen in Beijing Olympic. Get use to it now.
If you want to voice your protest, direct to the China Badminton.
Money and power talks...players are pawn, get used to it.

yahh, they shouldnt be doing the walk over thing. play all your games regardless if you're up against a team memeber if you want to walk over due to injure, get a doctor to examine it to make sure they arent bs'ing around.

also, i dont know why ppl are so upset over the line calls. most of them are pretty close, going either way especially in the MDQF KRvs.CHN. to say they're leaning towards the chinese is incorrect as i recall there were numerous close ones in both the LD and zhu lin games, with all the points going to their opponents.
secondly concerning the lines mens/women coming from the host nation, aren't all tournament run like that?? it's a lot more cost effective to hire people from their own country than to fly them from all over the world just to call a couple of games.

lastly, not many countries/players can afford not to go to tournaments such as the China Open SS and the China Masters. the prestige of winning these tournaments are high, with lots of prize money, superseries points and important world ranking points for the olympic games.

LYB is a joke and has no shame, enough said.

His target.. max medals at olympics is a joke too cause the olympics are a joke in terms of real competition.

Personally, if I were a guy ranked 216 but I lived in Oceania and qualified for the olympics but I took the place of the world ranked 5 chinese player, I'd give my spot to him or boycott the Olympics in protest. Thats real sportsmanship cause as much as LYB is a joke, the olympics are also just politics.

LYB is a joke and has no shame, enough said.

His target.. max medals at olympics is a joke too cause the olympics are a joke in terms of real competition.

is that not the goal for all countries attending the olympics??

ya... it's hard to get a proof.. but we can see the pattern why he always/often does a WO if he meets his compatriot :D :D

it needs to be hard evidence eh? as in, a BWF coming or something along the lines of that and stating whether a player should WO or not.


and for all you guys wanting to sign a petition or whatever, the one big thing you guys are lacking is.... PROOF. yah we here at BC all know that china will occasionally fix a match for the good of the country. but you guys can't go around making assumptions saying that CH purposely walked over so BCL is fresh to play PSH.
what happened if CH really was really injured or something like that??

is that not the goal for all countries attending the olympics??



it needs to be hard evidence eh? as in, a BWF coming or something along the lines of that and stating whether a player should WO or not.


and for all you guys wanting to sign a petition or whatever, the one big thing you guys are lacking is.... PROOF. yah we here at BC all know that china will occasionally fix a match for the good of the country. but you guys can't go around making assumptions saying that CH purposely walked over so BCL is fresh to play PSH.
what happened if CH really was really injured or something like that??

That's a lof of suppositions you're doing here.
Three walkover from Chen Hong on the same year, and you think it's not a coincidence?
Team Zhao and Xu walkover for Xie and Zhang, knowing full well that Zhang
played earlier. Why? Maybe so she can rest for her two matchs tomorrow?

It is good for a country to win medals. Chinese players are very talented and train hard to be the best. If they are good, they don't need match fixing to win the tournament. Yet they should play every match, like every players from any country does. That's basic sportsmanship and equal fairness.

You need proof? You admit that China occasionally fix a match for the good of the country... How is that for proof?

Walkover should be forbidden. They should only be granted upon review of a comittee.

also, i dont know why ppl are so upset over the line calls. most of them are pretty close, going either way especially in the MDQF KRvs.CHN. to say they're leaning towards the chinese is incorrect as i recall there were numerous close ones in both the LD and zhu lin games, with all the points going to their opponents.
secondly concerning the lines mens/women coming from the host nation, aren't all tournament run like that?? it's a lot more cost effective to hire people from their own country than to fly them from all over the world just to call a couple of games.

Agreed. Zhu Lin's game was a pretty good example of close calls going against her.

Anyways, match fixing: Yeah it sucks, yeah it's been going on for a while. But unfortunately for the rest of the competition, the depth of CHN affords them many opportunities to do it and so they exploit it. I don't see what an investigation would do other than confirm what we already know though. And there doesn't seem to be a viable way to stop it from happening as no one except the parties involved knows the truth and to punish the CHN team would have a negative effect on the sport as well as it is a huge part of it. iunno....

is that not the goal for all countries attending the olympics??



it needs to be hard evidence eh? as in, a BWF coming or something along the lines of that and stating whether a player should WO or not.


and for all you guys wanting to sign a petition or whatever, the one big thing you guys are lacking is.... PROOF. yah we here at BC all know that china will occasionally fix a match for the good of the country. but you guys can't go around making assumptions saying that CH purposely walked over so BCL is fresh to play PSH.
what happened if CH really was really injured or something like that??

U r making urself a joke.
U want proof? I won't give u cos LYB had done so.
He admitted in the chinese media about the fixing matches n said it's for the honor of the country. Shame on him as he was a sportsman before. By doing this, he's actually dishonoring his country n destroying some great players' future. Zhou mi's case is the most miserable one. Forcing to lost tamely to Zhang Ning in Athens' Olympic semi final. Imaging how hard a player has trained to realise her dream becoming an Olympic champion but only to see her teammate sent to the podium by her coach. This makes me mad seriously.


I'm sure you can read chinise. Here u go, give urself a lesson.
http://www.bbeshop.com/news/2007/news_20071113a.htm
http://www.bbeshop.com/news/2007/news_20071117d.htm

Weird that some ppl still want proof when it's blatantly done....Now, where is that petition....;)

Weird that some ppl still want proof when it's blatantly done....Now, where is that petition....;)

petition is right here: Petition to the BWF
(http://thebadmintonblog.blogspot.com/2007/11/petition-to-badminton-world-federation.html)
signatures still so few......:mad::mad::mad:

I think you should create a new thread for petition. it is hard to find here.

petition is right here: Petition to the BWF
(http://thebadmintonblog.blogspot.com/2007/11/petition-to-badminton-world-federation.html)
signatures still so few......:mad::mad::mad:

VChing, where did you watch the game? online? which website/channel?

I think you should create a new thread for petition. it is hard to find here.

I think you should create a new thread for petition. it is hard to find here.

I've made a new thread in the general forum, but then the readership there is lower...

Weird that some ppl still want proof when it's blatantly done....Now, where is that petition....;)
hahaha, there still isnt any proof for THIS particular match. i havent read, seen, or heard of any source claiming that they have found the chinese team of match fixing in THIS tournament. unless you can find hard evidence, your guys arguements go absolutely nowhere.

vching: in your petition there are words like "we believe". these are all assumptions backed by nothing. how can you accuse someone of a penalty backed with little to no evidence?
also, you state 'several countries' are involved but only list chinese examples. who exactly are the other countries?
secondly you claim "The South Korean players complained of biased linejudging, and this would not have happened if linesmen were from a country other than China." i stress that last part. does this mean you can accruately prove that if the line judges were of non-chinese decent, that the koreans would have had the calls made in their favour?

lastly, it seems like you have taken the time to think of possible solutions. although i appluade your effort, many of the solutions are not realistic due to the cost but more importantly time. the propsed hawk eye system costs $20000USD-$25000USD per court for 1 week. this is on average more than a MS winners prize money.
more importantly, it takes time to make a panel and for them to accurately make a decision on the issue. it takes a lot of time to make a desicion, and because you had stated in your petition that this panel would oversee other issues as well, a desicion may not be made in proper time stalling other games.

hahaha, there still isnt any proof for THIS particular match. i havent read, seen, or heard of any source claiming that they have found the chinese team of match fixing in THIS tournament. unless you can find hard evidence, your guys arguements go absolutely nowhere.

vching: in your petition there are words like "we believe". these are all assumptions backed by nothing. how can you accuse someone of a penalty backed with little to no evidence?
also, you state 'several countries' are involved but only list chinese examples. who exactly are the other countries?
secondly you claim "The South Korean players complained of biased linejudging, and this would not have happened if linesmen were from a country other than China." i stress that last part. does this mean you can accruately prove that if the line judges were of non-chinese decent, that the koreans would have had the calls made in their favour?

lastly, it seems like you have taken the time to think of possible solutions. although i appluade your effort, many of the solutions are not realistic due to the cost but more importantly time. the propsed hawk eye system costs $20000USD-$25000USD per court for 1 week. this is on average more than a MS winners prize money.
more importantly, it takes time to make a panel and for them to accurately make a decision on the issue. it takes a lot of time to make a desicion, and because you had stated in your petition that this panel would oversee other issues as well, a desicion may not be made in proper time stalling other games.

Firstly, do you still need proof? I just listed 5 examples in the petition on China walking in dubious circumstances.
Can Chen Hong get injured 3 times in a row, all the day before meeting Chinese players, recovering all in time for the next match?
This is sufficient suspicion, I repeat, suspicion. we are voicing our concerns. Suspicion leads to concerns. We have no exact hard evidence or facts in the form of confessions etc. That is why the investigation by BWF should occur. To see whether the claims are true or not.
About the Koreans, I am not saying that the linejudges were biased. I am saying that if the linejudges were not from China, then the Koreans wouldn't have felt that they were being treated unfairly.
I know that no action taken can be ever perfect or would solve the problem perfectly. But this is what i can think of. if you have something else, I am all ears.
A panel can decide on things quickly. It can even decide on things at a later date. Such actions are not unprecedented. Sports such as cycling (tour de france) etc etc have panels that meet immediately or days after to decide on such matters.
Lastly, on the equipment, i believe this is a worthy investment. If badminton wants to gain the same popularity as tennis, then that is a correct and good investment.

i repeat, stop saying there is no evidence. We dont have conclusive and enough evidence, but we have evidence and suspicion. that is why we are voicing our concern.

VChing, where did you watch the game? online? which website/channel?

i watched it from the china open website yesterday. today i'm watching it from rtm.

Firstly, do you still need proof? I just listed 5 examples in the petition on China walking in dubious circumstances.
Can Chen Hong get injured 3 times in a row, all the day before meeting Chinese players, recovering all in time for the next match?
This is sufficient suspicion, I repeat, suspicion. we are voicing our concerns. Suspicion leads to concerns. We have no exact hard evidence or facts in the form of confessions etc. That is why the investigation by BWF should occur. To see whether the claims are true or not.
About the Koreans, I am not saying that the linejudges were biased. I am saying that if the linejudges were not from China, then the Koreans wouldn't have felt that they were being treated unfairly.
I know that no action taken can be ever perfect or would solve the problem perfectly. But this is what i can think of. if you have something else, I am all ears.
A panel can decide on things quickly. It can even decide on things at a later date. Such actions are not unprecedented. Sports such as cycling (tour de france) etc etc have panels that meet immediately or days after to decide on such matters.
Lastly, on the equipment, i believe this is a worthy investment. If badminton wants to gain the same popularity as tennis, then that is a correct and good investment.

i repeat, stop saying there is no evidence. We dont have conclusive and enough evidence, but we have evidence and suspicion. that is why we are voicing our concern.
first, you contradicted yourself in the last couple of sentences. you either have evidence or you dont, it cant be both.

you're still not getting the point, but here it is ONE LAST TIME:
suspicions will not get you anywhere. if you send a petition with 10000000000 names and no evidence, it leads to nothing. it will always come down to the question: based on what claims can you say this?
if you look at the green peace petitions, they will always have reports and analysis backing their claims, not just suspicions.

also, what you described about the korean vs. chinese MD situation is racism/discrimination. this is not the case, it was a dispute over the call, not the line judges. the koreans did not say what you thought they said, so you cant assume it.

if the BC community have such high suspicions about the match fixing, dont you think that the BWF would have talked about this issue?

Maybe BWF can have a rule like this:
If players from the same country walk, then the culprits will be barred from following 2 successive SS tournaments to give them 'time to recuperate from walking'.No need for MC.

this is actually a good idea... give them sufficient/realistic time to recover from their injuries.... they can of course take longer time off if it is really genuinely serious injury. agreed?:D

In the 1970s... INA was also notoriously practiced [but never found guilty of] 'match-fixing' the results... It was terrible! Terrible! A lot of players hated PBSI's guts for it. So unethical.

Nowadays, the very people who were victims of the 1970s practice, such as Lius Pongoh, Christian Hadinata etc., never asked their current athletes to throw away matches.

Note: INA players never intentionally walk out. Just purposely loose... As for LYB... I have nothing more to say about him. The more I say my opinion about him, the more likely I will be thrown out of BC. And he is not worth it.

losing intentionally or giving unreasonable WO are just as guilty as the other. putting shame to the country involved and the sport as a whole. like i pointed before, in the game of tennis, either way, its called unsportsmanshiplike. for example, nikolay davydenko from russia was fined twice this yr at least by men tennis governing body, ATP, for lack of commitment/trying on his part in his match. it is up to the player to explain his reason for lackadaiscal play:p

first, you contradicted yourself in the last couple of sentences. you either have evidence or you dont, it cant be both.

you're still not getting the point, but here it is ONE LAST TIME:
suspicions will not get you anywhere. if you send a petition with 10000000000 names and no evidence, it leads to nothing. it will always come down to the question: based on what claims can you say this?
if you look at the green peace petitions, they will always have reports and analysis backing their claims, not just suspicions.

also, what you described about the korean vs. chinese MD situation is racism/discrimination. this is not the case, it was a dispute over the call, not the line judges. the koreans did not say what you thought they said, so you cant assume it.

if the BC community have such high suspicions about the match fixing, dont you think that the BWF would have talked about this issue?

are u sent from BWF? hehe....:D

:cool::crying::(:(I agree with Indra that is what that's unsporting way. All of them are from China, and the Beijing game is on next year

first, you contradicted yourself in the last couple of sentences. you either have evidence or you dont, it cant be both.

you're still not getting the point, but here it is ONE LAST TIME:
suspicions will not get you anywhere. if you send a petition with 10000000000 names and no evidence, it leads to nothing. it will always come down to the question: based on what claims can you say this?
if you look at the green peace petitions, they will always have reports and analysis backing their claims, not just suspicions.

also, what you described about the korean vs. chinese MD situation is racism/discrimination. this is not the case, it was a dispute over the call, not the line judges. the koreans did not say what you thought they said, so you cant assume it.

if the BC community have such high suspicions about the match fixing, dont you think that the BWF would have talked about this issue?

I did not contradict myself. I said that we had evidence, but not sufficient evidence. Read properly.

if I have 10000000 signatures, it means that the international badminton community is concerned. the bwf, representing the international community must act. What do I base it on? I base it on the numerous walkovers and LYB's statement.

In addition to this, the Koreans dispute the call. and who made the call? the linejudges. Get a brain.

I'm in agreement with jgao_net on this.

Let's do it like this; this petition should be about asking the BWF to investigate into the matter and ascertain if any ethical breaches to the game had been done.

It is not your job or the forum's to present any evidence because you simply don't have it. Imply all you want and make that a case if you like but don't assume that what you have said is gospel.

A petition of 1,000,000 signatures asking for an investigation is a lot more agreeable than 1,000,000 suggesting or 'confirming' (notice the quote marks) that there is evidence. Doing the latter is suicidal - if the BWF asks for a show of hands (poker analogy), what can you put in the table?

Nothing.

History had taught us 1,000,000 can all be wrong at the same time - those people at BWF, China BA and their lawyers weren't born on turnip trucks yesterday.

I'm in agreement with jgao_net on this.

Let's do it like this; this petition should be about asking the BWF to investigate into the matter and ascertain if any ethical breaches to the game had been done.

It is not your job or the forum's to present any evidence because you simply don't have it. Imply all you want and make that a case if you like but don't assume that what you have said is gospel.

A petition of 1,000,000 signatures asking for an investigation is a lot more agreeable than 1,000,000 suggesting or 'confirming' (notice the quote marks) that there is evidence. Doing the latter is suicidal - if the BWF asks for a show of hands (poker analogy), what can you put in the table?

Nothing.

History had taught us 1,000,000 can all be wrong at the same time.

i dont get your point.

I'm supposed to go off for lunch anyway, that was all written in a hurry - I'll be back in a bit.

what the ****, sick of this, becoz the dominate this competition so they can WO for the match in same country, where is the sportiveness, last weeks Israel and Croatia make soccer proud with playing sportive, but why in Badminton which minor sport in this world can do the same

yesterday .... IND mix double meet in QF ... but they still fair .. fight for their honour ...

but why CHINA playing like **** ... huh ...

enough has been said about this issue. anymore will just be people fighting and not able to contain their own emotions.

thread closed.