Eyesight Check for Umpires and Linesmen

[X Ball]

Ok, assuming we give the benefits of doubt to them in the CO and HKO that the bad calls were not made to the advantage of Chinese players, can we say that the calls were made because they have bad eyesight ?

Has anyone actually considered such bad calls could be bad eyeight which cannot pick up things which are too far ? I would like to hear your opinions.:D:D

[taufik-ist]

i think.. we don't need to debate about that anymore :D .. :D

[drifit]

i think.. we don't need to debate about that anymore :D .. :D

yeah....
LD did comment on background lites reflects.......:)
thus, officials need to take off or hide their tags and put away their seating's tag(not really know what it calls....) :p:p:p

[X Ball]

i think.. we don't need to debate about that anymore :D .. :D


Well, my thoughts are different as it seems to me that everyone believes they are just judgemental errors and if so, are they eyesight related ? Worth a discussion.

[winston]

I spent a few days in the Hong Kong Super Series and I agree with Kwun that the linesman did a decent job in calling the lines. I can't speak for CO since I wasn't there. The only incident I can remember in HKSS is in the MS Final where a linesman call a shot out and LD believes it was in and complain to the umpire, since the bird actually landed very close to where the umpire was sitting and the umpire overruled the call by the linesman. Attached is the picture of the moment that the incident happened. LCW wasn't very happy at first, but very quickly move on and didn't let it affect his playing. The second pictures are the linesman watching the matches while waiting for their next duty..

[drifit]

Well, my thoughts are different as it seems to me that everyone believes they are just judgemental errors and if so, are they eyesight related ? Worth a discussion.

yes, and it is worth of discussion for other matters too.......
one may compare to other sports, such as tennis whereas line calls are very important, accurate and fast too(not call out only when player is hitting the balls, is when the balls touch the ground)....
some criteria;
1. umpire - well known to the rules? are they certified? meetings to discuss on matches?(this is done in World Cup, referees did meet up to discuss what kind of tactics or expectations of teams)
2. line judges - well trained to observe? rules? or just sitting there daydreaming?
3. service judge - observing the serves or just do the shuttles changing? helping umpire to observe matches?(as assistant to umpire)
4. officials - observing matches or just sitting aside just chit-chatting? or keep in contact with umpire throughout the matches?

these, i can think of for now......

[drifit]

I spent a few days in the Hong Kong Super Series and I agree with Kwun that the linesman did a decent job in calling the lines. I can't speak for CO since I wasn't there. The only incident I can remember in HKSS is in the MS Final where a linesman call a shot out and LD believes it was in and complain to the umpire, since the bird actually landed very close to where the umpire was sitting and the umpire overruled the call by the linesman. Attached is the picture of the moment that the incident happened. LCW wasn't very happy at first, but very quickly move on and didn't let it affect his playing. The second pictures are the linesman watching the matches while waiting for their next duty..

yeah, i did notice that. they are more in focus. maybe due to some incidents in CO.............:)

[AChan]

I was just lucky enough to sit beside the linesman, closer to the floor and watching one of a controversial shuttle down to the outer edge of baseline during LCW & LD match, it dropped quickly but I am sure it was in as the decision of linesman. :cool: Althought LCW didn't agree with that, sometimes, player has their objective expectation at that critical moment.

[cooler]

Ok, assuming we give the benefits of doubt to them in the CO and HKO that the bad calls were not made to the advantage of Chinese players, can we say that the calls were made because they have bad eyesight ?

Has anyone actually considered such bad calls could be bad eyeight which cannot pick up things which are too far ? I would like to hear your opinions.:D:D
it is obvious your suspicion is rooted in jealousy of china's bad. team success while u dont know china all that much.

first, i can say with certainty that players arent 100% right either, do lcw need eyesight check as well? Since he mishit the shuttle and stuck a shuttle on his 900P, is miss hitting the sweetspot put doubt on his eyesight more so than doubting linesman's eyesight?

second, HK people aren't as pro china like u think. When chen jin walkout, a pro-china audience wouldnt be booing the walkover. There are controversies and excuses made in every tournament results it seem, dont make it all it seem favoring china only. There are some honest errors made by both line judges and players as well.

[drifit]

it is obvious your suspicion is rooted in jealousy of china's bad. team success but dont know china all that much.

first, i can say with certainty that players arent 100% right either, do lcw need eyesight check as well? Since he mishit the shuttle and stuck a shuttle on his 900P, is miss hitting the sweetspot put doubt on his eyesight more so than doubting linesman's eyesight?

second, HK people aren't pro china like u think. When chen jin walkout, a pro-china audience wouldnt be booing the walkover. There are controversies and excuses made in every tournament results it seem, dont make it all it seem favoring china only. There are some honest errors made by both line judges and players as well.

true............:)
however, the umpire, service judge, line judges need to be firmed, accurate and confident. they will be shaking if objections being make by players.
if the umpire and judges are confident, we as spectators will fully support them and not to certain players.....:)

[dannyang]

I was just lucky enough to sit beside the linesman, closer to the floor and watching one of a controversial shuttle down to the outer edge of baseline during LCW & LD match, it dropped quickly but I am sure it was in as the decision of linesman. :cool: Althought LCW didn't agree with that, sometimes, player has their objective expectation at that critical moment.

I see I see. you are sitting closed to the lineman. you are the one carring a camera. that's enough info for me to find you by replaying the video. and I will put your photo on BC. :D

[winston]

AChan and Kwun of BC in action alongside with the HD (High Definition) TV camera from TVB (Hong Kong No.1 TV Statation). HD badminton video, COOL :) I really envy you guys can move into differnt positions and take pictures, for me I can only shoot from the seat where I was assigned. :crying:

[kwun]

also, if i recall correctly, the umpire in charge of the LD vs. LCW match is from Japan.

[kwun]

AChan and Kwun of BC in action alongside with the HD (High Definition) TV camera from TVB (Hong Kong No.1 TV Statation). HD badminton video, COOL :) I really envy you guys can move into differnt positions and take pictures, for me I can only shoot from the seat where I was assigned. :crying:

BC cameraman/woman caught in action!

that TV camera is pretty impressive btw, it is 7-161mm f/1.6!

[drifit]

also, if i recall correctly, the umpire in charge of the LD vs. LCW match is from Japan.

korean..........??

[victory]

Umpires and linemen in CO and HKO are obviuosly bias! While some of you say the umpire and even yourself see the incident, do not forget that there are many spectatles see some of the calls are bad. And HK spectatles are fair, they will shout out their dissatisfaction.

How do I know? I was in HK watching the match between Taufik and LD last year. There were at least 2 line calls that were bad calls in favour of LD. Taufik was so furiuos that he argued with one of the linewoman. He quit in less that 10 minutes out of frustration.The spectatles including me can see very clearly and we shouted out our dissatisfaction. The stadium in HK is not very big. Therefore the seating is arranged quite steep. Most of the spectatles can see clearly just looking down at the courts.

I was not in CO and HKO this year. But we have video recording and people talk when they see something not right. There is not argument when it comes to the fairness of umpire and lineman in CO and HKO. They need to improve in this area obviuosly.

The chinese team can win as many titles as they want but if they keep winning in this fashion the gold metal mean nothing.( I have nothing against the chinese team btw but as a badminton fan, I just can't bear to see the cotamination in CO and HKO). Also I am not trying to provoke any arguments, I just want to voice my 2 cents honest comment.

[sepang]

Whenever the call favor in one side or another side, it is tough to simply make it a ball call unless we can see it clearly. New technology or instant replay equipment should be invested in the SS game to improve its integrity. After all, no one can say bad thing on linemens (most) who are trying to the best they can with their naked eyes.

[jeff-bad]

I am from U.S. and currently working in Hong Kong. I don't know what is the history of the past tournament and what it got to do with China Open. As far as I observed this year Hong Kong Open is a very clean tournament. Both the spectactor and the official are fair. They applaude and cheer for Malaysian team, Indonesian team when they play well just as hard for the Hong Kong or Chinese team. They boo the Chinese team when they WO..

[NisroL_JR]

when they want to start using techonology as tennis did??

[cooler]

Umpires and linemen in CO and HKO are obviuosly bias! While some of you say the umpire and even yourself see the incident, do not forget that there are many spectatles see some of the calls are bad. And HK spectatles are fair, they will shout out their dissatisfaction.

i say you are obviously bias. Your statement above statement proved that.

How do I know? I was in HK watching the match between Taufik and LD last year. There were at least 2 line calls that were bad calls in favour of LD. Taufik was so furiuos that he argued with one of the linewoman. He quit in less that 10 minutes out of frustration.The spectatles including me can see very clearly and we shouted out our dissatisfaction. The stadium in HK is not very big. Therefore the seating is arranged quite steep. Most of the spectatles can see clearly just looking down at the courts.

can u prove that line judge at 06 HKO is the same line judge making the so call bad call in 07 HKO?

I was not in CO and HKO this year. But we have video recording and people talk when they see something not right. There is not argument when it comes to the fairness of umpire and lineman in CO and HKO. They need to improve in this area obviuosly.

u r very weak in basic optic science. I will believe the overruling call by the umpire overlooking the line than 1000 spectator eyes in the audience. If u dont believe me, ask why kwun and AChan are taking photos from where they are instead of from the spectator level? too many people here doesnt even think before writing

The chinese team can win as many titles as they want but if they keep winning in this fashion the gold metal mean nothing.( I have nothing against the chinese team btw but as a badminton fan, I just can't bear to see the cotamination in CO and HKO). Also I am not trying to provoke any arguments, I just want to voice my 2 cents honest comment.
.......................

[cooler]

I am from U.S. and currently working in Hong Kong. I don't know what is the history of the past tournament and what it got to do with China Open. As far as I observed this year Hong Kong Open is a very clean tournament. Both the spectactor and the official are fair. They applaude and cheer for Malaysian team, Indonesian team when they play well just as hard for the Hong Kong or Chinese team. They boo the Chinese team when they WO.. Nod. Like i've said before, all those suspicious nay sayers think HK line judges are pro china, what a bunch a crap. You are insulting them when u say they are pro communist.

[X Ball]

it is obvious your suspicion is rooted in jealousy of china's bad. team success while u dont know china all that much.

first, i can say with certainty that players arent 100% right either, do lcw need eyesight check as well? Since he mishit the shuttle and stuck a shuttle on his 900P, is miss hitting the sweetspot put doubt on his eyesight more so than doubting linesman's eyesight?

second, HK people aren't as pro china like u think. When chen jin walkout, a pro-china audience wouldnt be booing the walkover. There are controversies and excuses made in every tournament results it seem, dont make it all it seem favoring china only. There are some honest errors made by both line judges and players as well.


LOL, Does LCW need eye check - you sound more parochial ? You questioned his rights whereas I mentioned here that perhaps it has to do with eyesight that those calls were bad.

Cooler, cool it. You have been looking for more arguments that this site needs.

[sumbadder]

Maybe it's LCW who needs the eye exam and not everyone else. I mean hey, two tournaments where he seems to have line calls going against him. Maybe it's him who's wrong and not the line judges.

And honestly, do you think he would have won the match had those 2 close - not biased - calls not been made against him?

[reclinerlover]

I've been following every single super series event in 2007. Certain players seems to get scot free with all their antics. There are so many chinese players naturally they are more prominent offenders. They are highly skilled players and deserve our respects but things like frequent easy walkover (amongst china's men singles) and not ready when opponents serve (too frequent in both china men singles and doubles) really disappoints me.

In the HKO, instant replay showed that the shuttle was out and the umpire overruled it. Bad eyesight or favouritism...? When it happens one too many times...well what can I say.

[cooler]

Cooler, cool it. You have been looking for more arguments that this site needs.

A hypocritical statement. LOOK AT WHO STARTED THIS THREAD:rolleyes: LOL

u started a thread and invite opinions, can't defend weak your allegation, then tell me to cool it. what a.... . Self explanatory.

[X Ball]

A hypocritical statement. LOOK AT WHO STARTED THIS THREAD:rolleyes: LOL

u started a thread, can't defend weak your allegation, then tell me to cool it. what a.... . Self explanatory.

You have that stupid concept that anyone who starts a thread is allegating something sinister. Wrong man. You have a baggage on your shoulder and it is hard to stop a person like you from mouthing anything you want.

[cooler]

You have that stupid concept that anyone who starts a thread is allegating something sinister. Wrong man. You have a baggage on your shoulder and it is hard to stop a person like you from mouthing anything you want.nope, i like to expose hypocrites and u r an easy duck

i like to let others see what u shoot off your mouth actually

[george@chongwei]

lets stop the arguements, gentlemen

[jug8man]

lets stop the arguements, gentlemen

I must agree ;)

[X Ball]

nope, i like to expose hypocrites and u r an easy duck


And you are a sinister person with a baggage on your shoulder!

[Contactjj]

And you are a sinister person with a baggage on your shoulder!

This is too much ' you are a sinister person ... '...... 'You have that stupid concept .... ' :eek::mad::rolleyes:

You would be the true champion if the game were played by lips and tongue..

You disgust me. Stop, please.

[pjswift]

Maybe it's LCW who needs the eye exam and not everyone else. I mean hey, two tournaments where he seems to have line calls going against him. Maybe it's him who's wrong and not the line judges.

And honestly, do you think he would have won the match had those 2 close - not biased - calls not been made against him?
If LCW needs the eye exam, he wouldn't be a badminton ace now.We don't know what could have happened...but we do know LCW beat both LD and BCL more often than lost in neutral tournaments this year.
Frankly if I were LCW, I wouldn't waste my knees,my time and energy. I would target to skip CM09, CO09 and HK09 and focus 110% in the other SS next year.

[cooler]

And you are a sinister person with a baggage on your shoulder!
u obviously didnt catch the hint.
the people who suggest to stop arguing are malaysians.
Xball, u r disgracing them....

[nwy5633]

If LCW needs the eye exam, he wouldn't be a badminton ace now.We don't know what could have happened...but we do know LCW beat both LD and BCL more often than lost in neutral tournaments this year.
Frankly if I were LCW, I wouldn't waste my knees,my time and energy. I would target to skip CM09, CO09 and HK09 and focus 110% in the other SS next year.
why dun CM08,CO08 and HK08???:D

[X Ball]

u obviously didnt catch the hint.
the people who suggest to stop arguing are malaysians.
Xball, u r disgracing them....


They are asking you to stop arguing - check the post who started the argument first. What an idiot.

[X Ball]

This is too much ' you are a sinister person ... '...... 'You have that stupid concept .... ' :eek::mad::rolleyes:

You would be the true champion if the game were played by lips and tongue..

You disgust me. Stop, please.

If you think if I disgust you, you are abhorrent !

[pjswift]

why dun CM08,CO08 and HK08???:D
Olympic ranking points!!!

[hcyong]

These sort of things happen everywhere, some places more than others. Some genuine mistakes, others deliberate bias. Sometimes, this bias becomes a stigma for a certain tournament, such that the "away" player automatically assumes deliberate wrong judgement even if the judgement is right or non-deliberate.

Badminton don't have the money to have professional linejudges. I also doubt we have the money for line-call technology. We can wait for this technology to become cheaper. But now, we just have to go with the flow. Sometimes, it's more interesting this way. And look, even Federer complains about the technology.

[pjswift]

Actually,the issue is not about close calls. In CO, it was about blatantly bad calls These only happen in highly 'nervous' matches.But it reflects on the superiority of the victimised player.

[spchu]

But the thing I don't get is- isnt tv replay available. Even we at home sometimes get to see how the shuttlecock landed, so why can't this simple technology be used?
It sure is much fairer compared to the line calls we witness in the China Open especially...

[nwy5633]

Olympic ranking points!!!
i thought olympic pts onli till may of 08

[s1nn3r]

But the thing I don't get is- isnt tv replay available. Even we at home sometimes get to see how the shuttlecock landed, so why can't this simple technology be used?
It sure is much fairer compared to the line calls we witness in the China Open especially...
There is always pros and cons in using technology! But I am sure if its implement correctly that will improve the fairness of the game :)

[hcyong]

But the thing I don't get is- isnt tv replay available. Even we at home sometimes get to see how the shuttlecock landed, so why can't this simple technology be used?
It sure is much fairer compared to the line calls we witness in the China Open especially...

The procedure stops the flow of the game. Football (soccer) has resisted this for the very same reason. Furthermore, not all matches are televised. And not all replays are perfect (video quality, player in the way).

[drifit]

sad........
within 6 hrs, i re-log in, go haywire again................:(

[nwy5633]

yes..
it will affect the flow of the game for sure..
in another way, it will make the match go longer!
but i think this problem can be solve..
such as every player can onli request for 2 or 3 replay in each set..
then it won't affect much..
the eagle eye thing also need a lot of money..
plus maybe the player will step on the camera accidentally and this will cost much.

[drifit]

yes..
it will affect the flow of the game for sure..
in another way, it will make the match go longer!
but i think this problem can be solve..
such as every player can onli request for 2 or 3 replay in each set..
then it won't affect much..
the eagle eye thing also need a lot of money..
plus maybe the player will step on the camera accidentally and this will cost much.

is hawk-eye...........:)
if too expensive and not suitable, maybe just use fixed video cameras at the lines.....

[V3i HoN6]

r
But the thing I don't get is- isnt tv replay available. Even we at home sometimes get to see how the shuttlecock landed, so why can't this simple technology be used?
It sure is much fairer compared to the line calls we witness in the China Open especially...
Yeah, sometimes it just a simple question children can ask.
Just put more camera on the line standby.
What are the harm?


There is always pros and cons in using technology! But I am sure if its implement correctly that will improve the fairness of the game :)
I would like to know the cons.


The procedure stops the flow of the game. Football (soccer) has resisted this for the very same reason. Furthermore, not all matches are televised. And not all replays are perfect (video quality, player in the way).
The flow of the game gonna stop anyway.
Took the times for arguing and everything, drop the racquet, pick up the racquet, some shake head, calling some big shots to come, why not just quickly look back at the video replay.
It's not like 21 controversial calls in a game.

Added: I heard football moved on. They will implant something at the ball and the goal post for the coming euro cup.

[drifit]

r
Yeah, sometimes it just a simple question children can ask.
Just put more camera on the line standby.
What are the harm?


I would like to know the cons.


The flow of the game gonna stop anyway.
Took the times for arguing and everything, drop the racquet, pick up the racquet, some shake head, calling some big shots to come, why not just quickly look back at the video replay.
It's not like 21 controversial calls in a game.

Added: I heard football moved on. They will implant something at the ball and the goal post for the coming euro cup.

good..........:)
just one thing........ will BWF accept and improve :cool:

[hcyong]

r
Yeah, sometimes it just a simple question children can ask.
Just put more camera on the line standby.
What are the harm?


No harm, but it's not 100%. The image can be obscured. And it is costly to put cameras on all lines in all courts.



I would like to know the cons.


1. slow
2. costly
to name just two.



The flow of the game gonna stop anyway.
Took the times for arguing and everything, drop the racquet, pick up the racquet, some shake head, calling some big shots to come, why not just quickly look back at the video replay.
It's not like 21 controversial calls in a game.


If need to review video, it's gonna stop much longer.


Added: I heard football moved on. They will implant something at the ball and the goal post for the coming euro cup.

Football took a long time and they still resist video replays even though they can very well afford it financially. It is easier to plant a chip on a football and some device on the goalmouth. In badminton, you use many shuttlecocks and there are many lines and many courts.

If cost is not a factor, I still prefer the technology and procedure like tennis Hawkeye.

[s1nn3r]

r

I would like to know the cons.

.

The Cons would be... we got nothing to argue about!

China cannot help her player in the olympic, all they can do is watch but cant act. China need the GOLD so badly... they will KILLED for it.

Plzzz dont be so cruel,

In life we must leave some space for people to come down the stage.

[xofrevlis]

Eyesight is over-rated.
Shon Seung Mo.
2004 Olympic Games Mens Singles Silver Medalist.
1/3 eyesight from right eye. :)