Malaysia: A Million Ringgit for Olympic Gold?

[Loh]

New Straits Times

Sportcheck: Is RM160,000 for gold enough?
By K. M. Boopathy

04 January, 2008

A MILLION ringgit for Olympic gold? That could well be the reward for any athlete who strikes in Beijing as the Sports Ministry and National Sports Council (NSC) fine tune their plans for an all-out assault on the Olympics in August.

Currently, the NSC's incentive scheme states that RM160,000 is the Government's reward for an Olympic gold, RM80,000 for silver and RM40,000 for bronze.

The amount, needless to say, is "inadequate" considering just how much prize money some athletes win competing in Open tournaments in their respective sport.

Sports Minister Datuk Seri Azalina Othman Said admitted that the amount is being looked at.

"We have to sit down and discuss our strategies (for the Olympics) and increasing the incentive is one of the issues we will look at," said Azalina after witnessing Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi handing out cash incentives yesterday to athletes who won gold in the Korat Sea Games.

"The Prime Minister has spoken about winning Olympic gold. The cash incentive is not the only issue but I agree, we need to strategise to have maximum returns in Beijing."

Malaysia's Olympic incentive scheme pales in comparison with that of Singapore, which offers S$1 million (RM2.3 million) and South Korea (US$200,000 > RM662,000).

Korea also offers a monthly life pension of US$1,000. Malaysia also has a similar pension scheme though with RM3,000 for an Olympic gold medallist, RM1,500 for silver and RM1,000 for bronze.

While the pension scheme, introduced by the Cabinet Committee for Sports that is chaired by Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak, is a laudable move, the incentive scheme needs to be revised.

The badminton players, Malaysia's best bet for medals in Beijing, have the lucrative Super Series which offers a minimum US$200,000 total prize money per leg.

Men's doubles Koo Kien Keat-Tan Boon Heong won four Super Series titles, each worth US$14,400 and there is also the yet to-be-staged Grand final, which will have US$500,000 as the prize money of which the men's doubles champions will receive US$36,000.

It is also worth knowing the Super Series offers cash prizes from the first round onwards. Kien Keat-Boon Heong also won the Macao and Philippines Grand Prix Opens, which earned them another US$17,280.

NSC director general Datuk Zolkples Embong said an increase is likely but the amount is yet to be decided.

"We have been discussing the possibility of increasing the incentive but the amount has to be confirmed. But I believe that an increase looks likely as it is not an easy feat to win an Olympic gold," said Zolkples.

"Even RM1 million can be rewarded for Olympic gold but what is important is that the amount must be manageable so that we can provide our winners continuously."

[ants]

One Mil is too much.The government has spend too much on the atheletes. If they want to offer 1Mil to the medalist, i suggest the money is to be spread into many years payout. Not good one lum sum.

[spchu]

Yeah agreed, one lump sum would increase the head of the athletes, and they would have rested on their laurels after that....

[Dreamzz]

i think 1m for olympic gold is a fair reward, considering MAS has never won gold before.

also, perhaps paying it out as say, 250k up front and the rest going into EPF or something would be worth considering, so that our athletes are still motivated to continue to excel and not get complacent.

[OneToughBirdie]

1 mil reward for Oly gold, lesser for silver and bronze, and give it out in one lump sum, why not? the winning player/players will say, 'see you later cos I am retiring'. On another note, will that create more 'pressure' for the players to win and you know, MAS players do not like to play under pressure, they crumbled like cookies....just making fun here...hehehe!!:D:p

[Dreamzz]

money's a different kinda pressure compared to the nation's expectations ....
:)

[Loh]

i think 1m for olympic gold is a fair reward, considering MAS has never won gold before.

also, perhaps paying it out as say, 250k up front and the rest going into EPF or something would be worth considering, so that our athletes are still motivated to continue to excel and not get complacent.

Also the Olympics is held every four years only and the players' professional career is relatively short. Certainly not excessive for a country which has never won an Olympic gold!

One million dollars for the privilege of having millions of people around the world getting to know your country better, hearing your national anthem being played and seeing your national flag being hoisted perhaps for the first time. Maybe this is considered rather cheap and effective to the advertising and PR world! ;) Therefore getting the first Olympic gold is priceless! :)

[eaglehelang]

Well, well, now Indonesia is giving 1 billlion ruppiah (USD100K = MYR347K)to OG gold winners as written in Badzine. Still more than Msia's current MYR160K.
Silver = 500 million rp(USD50K = MYR165K)
Bronze = 250 millioon rp (USD25K = MYR81K)

Singapore is giving S$1 million (MYR2.28 million) for gold, next??

[V3i HoN6]

I think the figure could be increase to 400-500K.
Roughly the price of a Semi D in Malaysia.
And I can assure you there will be more incentives from the state's government and some minister whoever.
I say don't worry about the rewards of who's winning the Olympic but I'm more concerned of the welfare of those who contributed their life and work as hard but not winning the gold.
We will have more LCW, KKK & TBH if more parents allow their children to train professionally since young.

[Pemuda]

Question #1 :

Our Malaysian shuttlers are professionals right???

Question #2 :

As professional sportmen/women, arent they supposed to find and earn their own?

-----------------------------------------------------

Do you think money can buy us success?? Will putting up that RM1.0million carrot guarantee us a first ever Olympic gold??

Just because our neighbours i.e. Singapore, Indonesia are throwing their cheques at their shuttlers , we do likewise?? Do we buy a Mercedes just because our next door neighbour buys one?? :rolleyes:

Have we not learn anything from the past about giving out huge financial rewards?? Like it or not, our shuttlers mentality are questionable. Imagine making them a millionaire overnight, what do you think will happen after that?? Well, in the past we saw big bikes, inflated egos and in the end what happened? Performance went to the drain, some of them went bankrupt.

In my opinion, lets not follow what others do. I am for giving out financial rewards, despite them being professional shuttlers. I would say RM160K is adequate for that Olympic gold. But NSC should also put in another RM100k each as a study grant for the gold medalist shuttler/s. Yes, provide them with a tertiary education. Thats the best gift of all. Equipped them for life after badminton. Remove the ever present Malaysian subsidy mentality.

[koo_fan]

a million?then they are pensionable.

isnt that too much?no.im not being pesimist n say we are spoiling the athletesbut am i right?

pak lah,do something.

[koo_fan]

i think 1m for olympic gold is a fair reward, considering MAS has never won gold before.



this can be an argument.u got a point.but in some cases(mostly malaysian athletes cases).plez,we should give a second thought.learn from the past.

a million is too much,we want to appreciate them not killing their career.
i think this is just a rumour.dont have to be too sure.maybe just an assumption n sugggestion by several parties.

[koo_fan]

pemuda,i want to enjoy this moment first.for being agree with u.

malaysia should really take this as serious.we are ruining the athletes.this rumour maybe due to our victory in korat.they are hoping the same in beijing.
we will never learn.

i think most malaysians here have the same thought.

[Pemuda]

a million?then they are pensionable.

isnt that too much?no.im not being pesimist n say we are spoiling the athletesbut am i right?

pak lah,do something.

Dont shoot yourself in the foot. Sports should never be administered by politicians. Look at FAM and see the son in law's performance.

[koo_fan]

malaysians athletes are not ready for 1 million.
its not always jazeman here.we have tan boon heong too.
jazeman anak datuk..so tak heran 1 juta ni.but if u give 1 million to tan boon heong (his father have to borrowed money to buy him rackets)..its the first time for him.
but after all,i appreciate tan boon heong more than jazeman.he works hard to get the oppurtunity.

let the reward suits the situation.

[Pemuda]

malaysians athletes are not ready for 1 million.
its not always jazeman here.we have tan boon heong too.
jazeman anak datuk..so tak heran 1 juta ni.but if u give 1 million to tan boon heong (his father have to borrowed money to buy him rackets)..its the first time for him.
but after all,i appreciate tan boon heong more than jazeman.he works hard to get the oppurtunity.

let the reward suits the situation.

We can also look at things this way.

Our national shuttlers are paid decent monthly allowances/salaries. They are called professionals but yet still get goodies from the government/state. For playing badminton and winning that Olympic gold they get a bonus of RM160k. I think that is already a bumper good deal. And calls for RM1.0 million for a Olympic gold is absurd. I mean if we are gonna pay RM1.0 million for someone who plays badminton and win that gold, we may as well pay RM10 or 20 or even 100 million to our policemen/women who protect us from criminals, soldiers who guard our borders or even teachers!!

[koo_fan]

then we should doubt suki too for getting a million in OIAM.

[Pemuda]

then we should doubt suki too for getting a million in OIAM.

That was a singing competition. :rolleyes: The prize money was announced upfront ... you know, One in a million???

Apa la Malaysian ni?

[eaglehelang]

We can also look at things this way.

Our national shuttlers are paid decent monthly allowances/salaries. They are called professionals but yet still get goodies from the government/state. For playing badminton and winning that Olympic gold they get a bonus of RM160k. I think that is already a bumper good deal. And calls for RM1.0 million for a Olympic gold is absurd. I mean if we are gonna pay RM1.0 million for someone who plays badminton and win that gold, we may as well pay RM10 or 20 or even 100 million to our policemen/women who protect us from criminals, soldiers who guard our borders or even teachers!!

Monthly allowance/salary - only the high achievers get more.
The figures were reported in the press at least 2X last year, but I dont have the copy anymore, if you subscribe to online newspaper & really want to know, can search

From 2007, a) Basic =RM500/mth. Hostel acccomodation I think = free. No more RM2,000 for elit squad.
b) Distribution of SS monies, from 1st round in main draw. SS monies part, do a search in this forum, I think someone already posted the details.

2005 SEA Games gold medalist only = additional RM1,000/mth= RM1,500/mth total. after 2007 SEA Games, dont know if it's continued, so far no announcement
2006 Commonwealth /Asia games gold medalist = additional RM2,000 to RM2,500/mth = total RM2,500-RM3,000.
Silver & Bronze Asia level also get, lesser amount.
And for a certain time only, i.e. not forever they get those amount.

All althetics who qualify on merit for 2008 OG = additional RM1,000/mth until Aug 2008. At the moment, badminton players dont get this yet, qualification period still goin on.

You can check the 2006 threads in this forum for list of players - as far as I remember, 2006 Commonwealth & Asia Games gold winners = LCW, WCH, WMC, WPT/CEH, KKK/TBH, CTF/LWW. Not sure if Commonwealth G include the reserve players.

And of course, the cast incentives if they win gold, silver, bronze - for SEA Games (gold),Asia, World level.

+ Badminton players/athletics, compared to general public retire at 30 sthing, much earlier. After that, they need to find other jobs. At 30 sthing, in non-sport field, employers may not want to employ - considered too old.

For BAM players, they cannot be product endorsers, WMC said that in an interview, beginning of the year.

So, for a non-achiever player, they dont 'earn' much. A fresh graduate earns anything between RM1,200 to RM2,500 per month, depending on the state, line of work.

Back to topic - if you dont think OG gold winner should get 1 million, fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

[Loh]

We can also look at things this way.

Our national shuttlers are paid decent monthly allowances/salaries. They are called professionals but yet still get goodies from the government/state. For playing badminton and winning that Olympic gold they get a bonus of RM160k. I think that is already a bumper good deal. And calls for RM1.0 million for a Olympic gold is absurd. I mean if we are gonna pay RM1.0 million for someone who plays badminton and win that gold, we may as well pay RM10 or 20 or even 100 million to our policemen/women who protect us from criminals, soldiers who guard our borders or even teachers!!

Yes it is difficult to quantify the rewards system.

I suppose it largely depends on the market place and how the people and the leadership perceive how much is justified for a certain service or product.

It also depends on the state of development of a country, particularly economic, what are its available resources and how important or urgently the item is required at a particular point in time - the priority list. Even then the need, desire and rewards/remuneration formula can change for the better or for worse over time.

I remember the pay of teachers in Singapore was rather poor about 20 or more years ago. And some teachers had to seek employment in the private sector for a better salary. The government and the private sector therefore have to compete for talents. Now teachers are among the best paid government servants. And that is because the government and the people agree that good education is very important to raise standards and quality all round.

Now, other governments may not think likewise and they may have other priorities. They need to maximise their available resources too.

But our teachers cannot claim to be the best in the world because there is no international competition for such a title. The nature of the job does not quite warrant it for now, otherwise a rich reward to the winner may be considered by the government for bringing glory to the country.

But for winning a gold medal in the Olympics will be a first for Singapore. The victory will be televised and conveyed through other mass media throughout the world. This will be of immense joy and pride to the people and the government. It will help to bond the various ethnic groups closer together and sustain racial harmony. If we have more of such happy events, then Singapore will have less racial trouble and civil disorder. Then the country can continue with improving on its various endeavours and bring more rewards to the people.

Is a million dollars worthwhile for an Olympic gold for Singapore?

Compare the richest man in the world, Bill Gates, with the best government leaders, how much are they rewarded? We know the latter pales in comparison. What is the justification? Why should Bill Gates be rewarded with so much money?

For that matter, compare a businessman with no tertiary education, some only primary education, but who earns millions of dollars a year, with the pay packet of the President or the Prime Minister of that country. Why should the businessman be rewarded with so much more?

What about the pay packet of EPL and other Euroupean professional footballers , golfers, NBA players, tennis players, etc? Should they be paid so much money, much, much higher than most white collar professionals who have to high academic qualifications? A million dollars to the best is nothing!

So it is difficult to quantify and justify! :D

[ants]

Its about the branding and how they commercialise the players and clubs. Badminton is nowhere near that at the moment.

[koo_fan]

That was a singing competition. :rolleyes: The prize money was announced upfront ... you know, One in a million???

Apa la Malaysian ni?
no la.i mean u said "we should give the money to teachers,police,soldiers etc too."
then,the one million should be given to those who has sacrifice a lot for us.not to that little gal.yeah..it is a prize for the winner.but malaysians spent a lot of money with the votes
duit rakyat jugak lah tu.

[koo_fan]

honestly,is this a rumour or what?
i didnt hear anything from azalina yet???
n we have already dicussed it this far.

[Pemuda]

no la.i mean u said "we should give the money to teachers,police,soldiers etc too."
then,the one million should be given to those who has sacrifice a lot for us.not to that little gal.yeah..it is a prize for the winner.but malaysians spent a lot of money with the votes
duit rakyat jugak lah tu.

When and where is your source that the prize money for One in a Million is from the taxpayers??? :rolleyes:

[**KZ**]

When and where is your source that the prize money for One in a Million is from the taxpayers??? :rolleyes:

I think that is impossible that the money from that TV show is from taxpayers since only the government is allowed to use our money for country building purposes for example keeping the Sultans comfy and buying them Rolls-Royces, Lambos, Ferraris, Maybachs etc.:rolleyes: However, I think that rewarding a million ringgit to an OG gold medallist is a fair price considering our country had nvr won an OG gold since we participated in the games in the late 1960s....it is worth it...

[Pemuda]

Monthly allowance/salary - only the high achievers get more.
The figures were reported in the press at least 2X last year, but I dont have the copy anymore, if you subscribe to online newspaper & really want to know, can search

From 2007, a) Basic =RM500/mth. Hostel acccomodation I think = free. No more RM2,000 for elit squad.
b) Distribution of SS monies, from 1st round in main draw. SS monies part, do a search in this forum, I think someone already posted the details.

2005 SEA Games gold medalist only = additional RM1,000/mth= RM1,500/mth total. after 2007 SEA Games, dont know if it's continued, so far no announcement
2006 Commonwealth /Asia games gold medalist = additional RM2,000 to RM2,500/mth = total RM2,500-RM3,000.
Silver & Bronze Asia level also get, lesser amount.
And for a certain time only, i.e. not forever they get those amount.

All althetics who qualify on merit for 2008 OG = additional RM1,000/mth until Aug 2008. At the moment, badminton players dont get this yet, qualification period still goin on.

You can check the 2006 threads in this forum for list of players - as far as I remember, 2006 Commonwealth & Asia Games gold winners = LCW, WCH, WMC, WPT/CEH, KKK/TBH, CTF/LWW. Not sure if Commonwealth G include the reserve players.

And of course, the cast incentives if they win gold, silver, bronze - for SEA Games (gold),Asia, World level.

+ Badminton players/athletics, compared to general public retire at 30 sthing, much earlier. After that, they need to find other jobs. At 30 sthing, in non-sport field, employers may not want to employ - considered too old.

For BAM players, they cannot be product endorsers, WMC said that in an interview, beginning of the year.

So, for a non-achiever player, they dont 'earn' much. A fresh graduate earns anything between RM1,200 to RM2,500 per month, depending on the state, line of work.

Back to topic - if you dont think OG gold winner should get 1 million, fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

Malaysia is a badminton playing nation, I am sure we all agree to that.

Badminton has a good following in Malaysia and the facilities for the development of the game is there, I am sure we all agree to this as well.

The WC started back in 1977. here are the list of past winners ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BWF_World_Championships#Men.27s_singles

How come there is not even a single Malaysian winner?? Now, lets look at it at the micro level, Denmark won the men singles twice, back in 1977 & 1997 and the women singles, back in 77' and 99'. Do you think the Danish shuttlers then were made overnight millionaires by the Danish government?? Another example, South Korea, they had a few successes at the WC. I am really wondering now whether the Korean government made their shuttlers millionaires overnight?

China, Indonesia, South Korea, Denmark, England, Sweden, Japan and USA have all won the WCs. Where is Malaysia? As a badminton playing nation, where is Malaysia?

Now lets look at the Olympics; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_badminton

Since 1992, again not even a single Malaysian winner. The Olympic winners are totally dominated by the Chinese & Indonesians followed by the South Korea and Denmark. Paul Erik Hoyer Larsen won the men singles Olympic gold in 1996. Did the Danish government threw the cheque book in their quest to win that Olympic gold? Was Paul Erik Hoyer Larsen made an instant millionaire by the Danish government in recognition of his gold medal??

The WCs and the Olympics are level 1 competitions, and Malaysia is a badminton playing nation. As the game is well funded and supported by the government how come we have yet to deliver that first WC or Olympic gold?? How is it so that lesser nations like Denmark, Japan, Sweden & England can do it?

But if you think money can buy success and the Malaysian solution is to dangle that RM1 million carrot for that gold medal, I think it may not work as you need to get the shuttlers to attend training as well and not go missing.

pssst ... putting a reward for RM1 million is not the final icing, our shuttlers need to show up for training first. ;)

Malaysia Boleh.

[eaglehelang]

1) On the Denmark guy, there's no info on how much he got from the government, not current at least, not in English. If you really want to find out, do your own search, or ask Yannie, she's from Denmark.
Same with South Korea, if you really interested to know, do your own search. For current situation for Korea, refer to Loh's 1st post here with the news, the figures are there.

2) The reply was to your "Our national shuttlers are paid decent monthly allowances/salaries. They are called professionals but yet still get goodies from the government/state." Only a select few, Msia's no 1 or no 2 players, get to the 'decent' section.
The ok & mediorce ones struggle, I remember wondering how KBH can survive, since his results arent good, why he doesnt get out, change career path.


And badminton is one of the 8 core sports. Sure, we havent won WC & OG, we will one day. Football is also core sports - an embarassment so far, yet it's still Category A.

3) Once again, as already stated in the other thread, I dont think $$$ can buy success or guarantee us the elusive gold. Neither does it mean RM1 million will make them big headed, things will 'freefall', etc.

Just a matter whether each individual thinks RM1 million is right amount to give, for all we know, the OG gold might come from one the lesser known sports. Spore also havent won OG gold before, wonder what their citizens think of the amount their government is giving.

According the Badzine, Indonesia is giving the 1 billion rp (ard RM350K) cos that's what they gave Taufik in 2004. That's a lot of $$$ by Indonesia standards - Taufik is billionaire in that sense. So, Taufik is still playing, whether he's more arrogant after that, judge for yourself. Then, of course, Taufik isnt Msian.

4) And for that player, he has to qualify for OG 1st, which looks bleak. There's WCH, KLRC's Lee TS, his own bro Roslin, - all determined contenders for the 2nd spot.

Anyway, the finalised amount is not decided yet. We can debate, go round & round, but it's the govern that makes the decision. Unless one have a sphere of influence with the relevant powers that be, whatever we say wont factor into their decision.

[koo_fan]

this thread is simple i think.
just ask us whether our athlete worth 1 million for a gold in olympic?

i agree if we do give reward but not a million.too much n will spoilt our athletes.give the reward in a proper amount.

[Pemuda]

1) On the Denmark guy, there's no info on how much he got from the government, not current at least, not in English. If you really want to find out, do your own search, or ask Yannie, she's from Denmark.
Same with South Korea, if you really interested to know, do your own search. For current situation for Korea, refer to Loh's 1st post here with the news, the figures are there.

Very simple. Apply common sense. Ask yourself these questions; whether badminton is as popular in Denmark as in Malaysia and whether the Danish government funds the game like the Msian govt.

I say it again, if a lesser badminton playing nation like Denmark, England, England and South Korea can enjoy success in the WCs/Olympics, how come Malaysia is unable to do likewise?

2) The reply was to your "Our national shuttlers are paid decent monthly allowances/salaries. They are called professionals but yet still get goodies from the government/state." Only a select few, Msia's no 1 or no 2 players, get to the 'decent' section.
The ok & mediorce ones struggle, I remember wondering how KBH can survive, since his results arent good, why he doesnt get out, change career path.

You want to get to the decent section, you need to earn you way up. You dont turn pro today and expect to earn big $$ tomorrow. You got to deliver the titles first. Then the prize money will come follow by the sponsors. Thats the true professional way.

And badminton is one of the 8 core sports. Sure, we havent won WC & OG, we will one day. Football is also core sports - an embarassment so far, yet it's still Category A.

Yes .... one day. In the meantime, lets shiok sendiri with Malaysia Boleh :rolleyes:

Football is beyond embarrassment, should we go "sure, we havent won the World Cup, we will one day"?? You know, that 'one da' thingy?

But to be fair, Malaysia is a badminton powerhouse as we have won the Thomas Cup etc before, while Malaysia is not a powerhouse in football.

3) Once again, as already stated in the other thread, I dont think $$$ can buy success or guarantee us the elusive gold. Neither does it mean RM1 million will make them big headed, things will 'freefall', etc.

Just a matter whether each individual thinks RM1 million is right amount to give, for all we know, the OG gold might come from one the lesser known sports. Spore also havent won OG gold before, wonder what their citizens think of the amount their government is giving.

Dont worry our about neighbour, Singapore. We should look at our own house first. And things arent looking bright despite all the money our government pumped into badminton, we still have yet to deliver either a WC/Olympic gold.

According the Badzine, Indonesia is giving the 1 billion rp (ard RM350K) cos that's what they gave Taufik in 2004. That's a lot of $$$ by Indonesia standards - Taufik is billionaire in that sense. So, Taufik is still playing, whether he's more arrogant after that, judge for yourself. Then, of course, Taufik isnt Msian.

Again, we should not be looking at others when our own house is in a mess. We cant even instill elementary discipline on our own shuttlers like attending training!

4) And for that player, he has to qualify for OG 1st, which looks bleak. There's WCH, KLRC's Lee TS, his own bro Roslin, - all determined contenders for the 2nd spot.

Anyway, the finalised amount is not decided yet. We can debate, go round & round, but it's the govern that makes the decision. Unless one have a sphere of influence with the relevant powers that be, whatever we say wont factor into their decision.


Who is talking about having 'a sphere of influence'?? Isnt this just a forum here??

[eaglehelang]

4) Who is talking about having 'a sphere of influence'?? Isnt this just a forum here??

1) Well, you did ask - "Do you think the Danish shuttlers then were made overnight millionaires by the Danish government?? Another example, South Korea, they had a few successes at the WC. I am really wondering now whether the Korean government made their shuttlers millionaires overnight?" So, check it out yourself, if you really want to know.

2) b) Off-topic - football - Due to this sport's dismal results, I happen to support Datuk Azalina initial proposal to reduce funding & distribute to other sports. But then, I'm bias cos I want the the more succesful Category B sports to get more exposure:).

3) Well, people will compare. You compare with Denmark, England & South Korea, I compare with Spore & Indonesia. Take the +ve aspects they have, all those countries, incorporate it.

South Korea - I wouldnt put them as lesser badminton playing nation, they had pretty good MD back in 1990s. Remember Park JB?

Basically, past failure doesnt mean future will fail. Same with past success doesnt mean future will succeed.
After Fail,fall fown, get up & go at it again, without giving up, or lamenting how much we have failed. Press on, move on forward, improve. Doesnt mean syok sendiri.


4) That was diplomatic way of saying "Wasting energy repeatly discussing (same issue in different threads) if it doesnt make a difference in actual situation." End result, end result.
If you really feel strongly about it, what have you done, to address the issue ? - like writing to the press, to the relevant bodies.

[crosscourt]

I don't know how BAM is set up, but wouldn't they make at least a portion of that money back in sponsorship and endorsements? Are BAM spending money to make money?

[Pemuda]

1) Well, you did ask - "Do you think the Danish shuttlers then were made overnight millionaires by the Danish government?? Another example, South Korea, they had a few successes at the WC. I am really wondering now whether the Korean government made their shuttlers millionaires overnight?" So, check it out yourself, if you really want to know.

I already know. The questions were meant for you.

2) b) Off-topic - football - Due to this sport's dismal results, I happen to support Datuk Azalina initial proposal to reduce funding & distribute to other sports. But then, I'm bias cos I want the the more succesful Category B sports to get more exposure:).

Funny isnt it, a war torn country like Ivory Coast are able to make it to the WC in Germany 2006.

3) Well, people will compare. You compare with Denmark, England & South Korea, I compare with Spore & Indonesia. Take the +ve aspects they have, all those countries, incorporate it.

Please note, I did not compare with Denmark etc. I was wondering (you know, wondering) why these lesser badminton playing nations are able to win the WC/Olympic gold while we are still getting a zero?

South Korea - I wouldnt put them as lesser badminton playing nation, they had pretty good MD back in 1990s. Remember Park JB?

How many times have South Korea won the Thomas Cup? Yes, I remember Park JB. You know who is Eddy Choong, Tan Yee Khan, Tan Aik Huang, Ng Boon Bee, Yeoh Teck Chye, Chan Kon Leong?

Basically, past failure doesnt mean future will fail. Same with past success doesnt mean future will succeed.
After Fail,fall fown, get up & go at it again, without giving up, or lamenting how much we have failed. Press on, move on forward, improve. Doesnt mean syok sendiri.

That is provided we are able to take the past as a learning experience.

4) That was diplomatic way of saying "Wasting energy repeatly discussing (same issue in different threads) if it doesnt make a difference in actual situation." End result, end result.
If you really feel strongly about it, what have you done, to address the issue ? - like writing to the press, to the relevant bodies.

This is a free world. And if you think it is a waste of energy, you are always welcome to abstain.
And thanks for your suggestions on writing to the press and relevant bodies.


Have a nice day.

[eaglehelang]

Have a nice day.

Basically, the topic of the thread is on whether RM1 million is worth giving to an OG gold medalist, and you have presented your points as to why it shouldnt be, fine.

In summary, as far as I'm concerned, it doesnt factor into "why lesser badminton nations can win WC/OG", or why Msia fail to win before, they have to win it 1st.

I dont think the reward thingy is foremost in our althetics minds & again I repeat I dont think $$$ can buy success and it definitely doesnt guarantee us the gold. Neither do I think it will make the althetics big-headed & things to "free fall" like 1992.

It's a matter of whether Msia government thinks it's worth the give that amount for a 1st OG gold, from whichever sport. The worth of that gold medal to the respective country image,etc which for each individual is of different value.

[robin7]

As long as the payout is not in a lumpsum, a million ringgit is reasonable for a country which has never won an Olympic Gold before and winning an Olympic Gold is priceless as some of us said.

Winning Malaysia the first Olympic Gold or winning 8 Golds by Michael Phelps in a single Olympic is more achievable? It depends...

How much will Michael Phelps get if he achieves that?

There is a Chinese saying "great rewards produce heroes".:):D

[Pemuda]

Basically, the topic of the thread is on whether RM1 million is worth giving to an OG gold medalist, and you have presented your points as to why it shouldnt be, fine.

In summary, as far as I'm concerned, it doesnt factor into "why lesser badminton nations can win WC/OG", or why Msia fail to win before, they have to win it 1st.

I dont think the reward thingy is foremost in our althetics minds & again I repeat I dont think $$$ can buy success and it definitely doesnt guarantee us the gold. Neither do I think it will make the althetics big-headed & things to "free fall" like 1992.

It's a matter of whether Msia government thinks it's worth the give that amount for a 1st OG gold, from whichever sport. The worth of that gold medal to the respective country image,etc which for each individual is of different value.

I repeat again that we should look at the success of those lesser badminton playing nations like Denmark and emulate them. If they can do it with a much smaller budget and lesser support from the government, then certainly we can learn a thing or two from them, especially since we have delivered a zero so far in the WC & Olympics.

I also repeat again the 1992 rewards are a fact which we should use as an example. You know, as in a learning example so that we dont repeat the same mistakes again. Learning from past mistakes, this is what progress is about.

And I repeat again that by dangling the RM1.0 million is not the solution the Sports Ministry & the NSC is looking for. As I said earlier, our sports associations need to get our house in order first. If the basic set up / ground work is not right, you wont go anywhere in the long term.

[Pemuda]

There is a Chinese saying "great rewards produce heroes".:):D

There is also a Malaysian saying " great rewards like giving out prime lands will result in big egos, big bikes and then bankruptcy" ;)

[exalted]

I think any amount of increase in prizes is totally fine. I think it's ridiculous how a first place in badminton nets only $14,000 anyway - this issue is precisely why badminton is not getting bigger in countries like the US, where first places at prestigious tournaments for the rival-sport tennis net $100,000+.

[koo_fan]

There is also a Malaysian saying " great rewards like giving out prime lands will result in big egos, big bikes and then bankruptcy" ;)
ohh...u did acknowledged malaysian saying???good start.i thought u its just for singaporeans saying or melbourne saying.

a joke from a younger bc member.dont take it into ur heart

have a nice day

[koo_fan]

I think any amount of increase in prizes is totally fine. I think it's ridiculous how a first place in badminton nets only $14,000 anyway - this issue is precisely why badminton is not getting bigger in countries like the US, where first places at prestigious tournaments for the rival-sport tennis net $100,000+.
yeah..poor situation for badminton players.
i dont want to explain more.will be boring.

just compare shutllers n golfers.
that michelle wie,good talent(not improve much lately) but gain more money than wmc.i think thats why shuttlers dont have so many problems outside the court.they are not rich n non-celebrities.

i thank god my lovely kkk doesnt turn out to be another beckham n get a posh in his life.that would be a disaster for me.
haii kkk.so sweet this cutey.girlish betul..

[eaglehelang]

I repeat again that we should look at the success of those lesser badminton playing nations like Denmark and emulate them. If they can do it with a much smaller budget and lesser support from the government, then certainly we can learn a thing or two from them, especially since we have delivered a zero so far in the WC & Olympics.

That point is for discussion in another thread. The worth of the OG gold is not reduced or increased by "lesser ....nations" winning it before. Unless the arguement is "Because these "lesser....nations" have won & we have not, our althetics dont deserve the RM1 mil". In which the other sports will complain since Msia is a 'lesser...nation' in some of the OG sports.

I also repeat again the 1992 rewards are a fact which we should use as an example. You know, as in a learning example so that we dont repeat the same mistakes again. Learning from past mistakes, this is what progress is about.

But not to be so afraid as to "Dont give that amount cos of what had happened." Past fail doesnt mean future will fail, and there'll be lots of people constantly reminding them about it.
+ these are totally different group of people, a different generation, different characters, it's like they're punished for what their fathers/brothers did. Such fear which causes one to hold back, as such hampering progress.

Learning from mistake would be divising another way to distribute the $$$, whatever amount it is, which some here already suggested.

And I repeat again that by dangling the RM1.0 million is not the solution the Sports Ministry & the NSC is looking for. As I said earlier, our sports associations need to get our house in order first. If the basic set up / ground work is not right, you wont go anywhere in the long term.

Back to Msia Open...................

[jug8man]

Source :
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Wednesday/Sport/2133272/Article/index_html


2008/01/16
Badminton / Malaysia open 2008: Hafiz blames poor form on slash in bonus

http://www.nst.com.my/Wednesday/Sport/2133272/insidepix1
Hafiz vows to give his all if he is paid more.

HAFIZ Hashim is not offering excuses for his recent failures but has no qualms about blaming preferential treatment of others in terms of allowances and incentives for his dip in form.
But Hafiz wishes to set the record straight that he is not motivated by money alone but at the same time financial instability has made it difficult for him to focus on his playing career.

Hafiz receives a monthly allowance of RM2,000 and gets nothing from the quarterly world ranking bonus received by the BA of Malaysia (BAM) players.

His financial burden has also increased after his recent marriage but sadly, his bonus, which used to be RM2,500, was recently slashed.

"I am also playing for the country and train full time just like the other national players. So it's not fair when it comes to allowances and incentives," said a frustrated Hafiz at Putra Stadium in Bukit Jalil yesterday.
"I am not offering excuses for my failures. However, financial stability plays a vital part in keeping a player focused and I don't really have that at the moment."

Lee Chong Wei, the nation's top player, receives RM3,000 monthly apart from a quarterly bonus of RM45,000 for being ranked World No 2.

Under the world ranking bonus, the top two ranked players receive a quarterly bonus of RM45,000 each, third and fourth receive RM36,000, fifth to eighth get RM24,000, ninth to 16th receive RM18,000, 17th-24th get RM9,000 while 25th-32nd earn RM4,500.

And finance was one of the prime reasons why Hafiz was linked with a move to KLRC Bhd but the player intends to remain faithful to Nusa and coach Misbun Sidek for the moment.

"My claims are reasonable. All I want is to get what the others are getting. If the others are paid RM1,000 then I should receive the same. I have no problem with that.

"I have been ranked in the top eight for more than a year but I was never considered for the ranking bonus because I'm not a BAM player," a disappointed Hafiz added.

"I believe if I am financially stable, I will have a clear mind and can confidently focus on winning a place in the Olympics.

"KLRC Bhd had made me a verbal offer to join them but no decisions have been made. If the current situation improves, I don't have to think about a move at all."

Hafiz could have earned a quarterly bonus of RM18,000 for the best part of last year as he was ranked in the top 16 and at the moment, he should still receive RM9,000 as he is currently ranked World No 17.

It's even more disturbing for him knowing that sparring partners employed by BAM, who work on a part-time basis, receive RM1,800 a month.

[koo_fan]

good quoted,jug8man.hafiz may got too much in 2003.n refuses to accept the fact he doesnt deserve the same until he proves himself again.if he did well,azalina herself will offered hafiz a million.stop criticizing n do the game.

[Pemuda]

Back to Msia Open...................

This thread is not about the Msian Open. :rolleyes:

[eaglehelang]

This thread is not about the Msian Open. :rolleyes:

15 character limit, didnt know the software only recognize outside the 'quote' box, LOL, means attention turned back to MO thread:)

[Pemuda]

15 character limit, didnt know the software only recognize outside the 'quote' box, LOL, means attention turned back to MO thread:)

Am happy for you.

[eaglehelang]

Am happy for you.

I'm sure you're already watching there too, exciting with Abedeng giving live from stadium action too. ;)

[badMania]

Hafiz Hashim is NOT a BAM player :eek::eek: ???

The setup in Malaysia is very confusing :o

[Pemuda]

Hafiz Hashim is NOT a BAM player :eek::eek: ???

The setup in Malaysia is very confusing :o

Malaysia Boleh! ;)

[samuel882]

Hafiz Hashim is NOT a BAM player :eek::eek: ???

The setup in Malaysia is very confusing :o
I am surprised that u just realised :eek:

[koo_fan]

I'm sure you're already watching there too, exciting with Abedeng giving live from stadium action too. ;)
i too am shocked.u doesnt realise?

well,u are now.

quoted from pemuda--MALAYSIA BOLEH.HAVE A NICE DAY.

malaysians are confusing but not many as sarcastic as pemuda.dont worry.

[badMania]

Malaysia Boleh! ;)

Haha...indeed...Malaysia really is Boleh in this aspect :o

[badMania]

I am surprised that u just realised :eek:

I thought he's playing for the national squad, ie: BAM? :cool:

In Indonesia, we used to have only Pelatnas players competing in GP events, before Djarum decides to send its players to compete in the past 2 years.

[Winston_T]

New Straits Times

Sportcheck: Is RM160,000 for gold enough?
By K. M. Boopathy

04 January, 2008

A MILLION ringgit for Olympic gold? That could well be the reward for any athlete who strikes in Beijing as the Sports Ministry and National Sports Council (NSC) fine tune their plans for an all-out assault on the Olympics in August.

Currently, the NSC's incentive scheme states that RM160,000 is the Government's reward for an Olympic gold, RM80,000 for silver and RM40,000 for bronze.

The amount, needless to say, is "inadequate" considering just how much prize money some athletes win competing in Open tournaments in their respective sport.

Sports Minister Datuk Seri Azalina Othman Said admitted that the amount is being looked at.

"We have to sit down and discuss our strategies (for the Olympics) and increasing the incentive is one of the issues we will look at," said Azalina after witnessing Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi handing out cash incentives yesterday to athletes who won gold in the Korat Sea Games.

"The Prime Minister has spoken about winning Olympic gold. The cash incentive is not the only issue but I agree, we need to strategise to have maximum returns in Beijing."

Malaysia's Olympic incentive scheme pales in comparison with that of Singapore, which offers S$1 million (RM2.3 million) and South Korea (US$200,000 > RM662,000).

Korea also offers a monthly life pension of US$1,000. Malaysia also has a similar pension scheme though with RM3,000 for an Olympic gold medallist, RM1,500 for silver and RM1,000 for bronze.

While the pension scheme, introduced by the Cabinet Committee for Sports that is chaired by Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak, is a laudable move, the incentive scheme needs to be revised.

The badminton players, Malaysia's best bet for medals in Beijing, have the lucrative Super Series which offers a minimum US$200,000 total prize money per leg.

Men's doubles Koo Kien Keat-Tan Boon Heong won four Super Series titles, each worth US$14,400 and there is also the yet to-be-staged Grand final, which will have US$500,000 as the prize money of which the men's doubles champions will receive US$36,000.

It is also worth knowing the Super Series offers cash prizes from the first round onwards. Kien Keat-Boon Heong also won the Macao and Philippines Grand Prix Opens, which earned them another US$17,280.

NSC director general Datuk Zolkples Embong said an increase is likely but the amount is yet to be decided.

"We have been discussing the possibility of increasing the incentive but the amount has to be confirmed. But I believe that an increase looks likely as it is not an easy feat to win an Olympic gold," said Zolkples.

"Even RM1 million can be rewarded for Olympic gold but what is important is that the amount must be manageable so that we can provide our winners continuously."

for the first ever OG's gold, that amount is not enough

[koo_fan]

for the first ever OG's gold, that amount is not enough
its enough to appreciate athletes instead of spoiling athletes.

n im talking about malaysians athletes.

[Winston_T]

its enough to appreciate athletes instead of spoiling athletes.

n im talking about malaysians athletes.

thats why MAS players / pairs never win the gold.
MAS govt should increase the bonus.
extra motivation for the athletes.

[Pemuda]

thats why MAS players / pairs never win the gold.
MAS govt should increase the bonus.
extra motivation for the athletes.

... and if they still cant win that Olympic gold, we should triple the bonus. Infact, throw it a few Tan Sri titles as well.

[Winston_T]

... and if they still cant win that Olympic gold, we should triple the bonus. Infact, throw it a few Tan Sri titles as well.

to triple the bonus? wow!

[Smichz]

this is quite fair i guess...pump up more money in the sport!!

[Pemuda]

this is quite fair i guess...pump up more money in the sport!!

I think the Malaysian government should pay RM1.0million even if KKK/TBH cant even get past the 1st round!! I mean, they can then use the cash for a good tour of Beijing.

[badMania]

I think the Malaysian government should pay RM1.0million even if KKK/TBH cant even get past the 1st round!! I mean, they can then use the cash for a good tour of Beijing.

Why don't we ask Kido/Hendra and Eriksen/Hansen to accompany them in the tour of the Great Wall too :p As the Chinese saying says: 3 stooges will make 1 Zhu Ge Liang (if my translation is correct :o;)). Not so boring mah....and 1 million ringgit divided by 6 ppl will still be a handsome figure for each player :D If they don't mind a Chinese pair, include Fu/Cai too in the crowd!

If they need ladies, throw in Zhang Ning and Xie Xingfang too....the more the merrier! I am sure they will make a good host :rolleyes:

[koo_fan]

this is quite fair i guess...pump up more money in the sport!!
I emphasized..this is not a right time.
Not a right timing.not at all.

i would prefer simple kkk.not becks' style.
Athletes for malaysians are not superstar.they are nation prides.Dont change that.

[Pemuda]

Why don't we ask Kido/Hendra and Eriksen/Hansen to accompany them in the tour of the Great Wall too :p As the Chinese saying says: 3 stooges will make 1 Zhu Ge Liang (if my translation is correct :o;)). Not so boring mah....and 1 million ringgit divided by 6 ppl will still be a handsome figure for each player :D If they don't mind a Chinese pair, include Fu/Cai too in the crowd!

If they need ladies, throw in Zhang Ning and Xie Xingfang too....the more the merrier! I am sure they will make a good host :rolleyes:

Psst ... Kido/Hendra , Eriksen/Hansen are no Malaysians in the first place. ;) Even with our famous Malaysia Boleh spirit, I really doubt our Msian government will be willing to pay out some RM to Danish, Indon or even African shuttlers.

But anyway, no worries KKK/TBH wont be alone when they tour the great wall. LCW will tag along. :p

Malaysia Boleh!

[badMania]

Psst ... Kido/Hendra , Eriksen/Hansen are no Malaysians in the first place. ;) Even with our famous Malaysia Boleh spirit, I really doubt our Msian government will be willing to pay out some RM to Danish, Indon or even African shuttlers.

Ah so...I thought that the Malaysian government will be so generous ;)

[Pemuda]

Ah so...I thought that the Malaysian government will be so generous ;)

We are generous or else we wont be taking in that many maids and construction workers. ;)

[koo_fan]

Ah so...I thought that the Malaysian government will be so generous ;)
How generous malaysians will be?
We are easily cheated by beggars syndicate.

But to spend for other athletes,ridiculous.
if that happen,Get rid of azalina right away.
N u,for asking that question...?

[Dato A]

Psst ... Kido/Hendra , Eriksen/Hansen are no Malaysians in the first place. ;) Even with our famous Malaysia Boleh spirit, I really doubt our Msian government will be willing to pay out some RM to Danish, Indon or even African shuttlers.

But anyway, no worries KKK/TBH wont be alone when they tour the great wall. LCW will tag along. :p

Malaysia Boleh!

And include 1 seat for the ''prefessional predictor''...

[Pemuda]

And include 1 seat for the ''prefessional predictor''...

Well, at least I have put forward my stand which is zero gold in badminton for Malaysia in Beijing unlike some lalang. ;)

Malaysia Boleh!

[jimbo]

OG08 GOLD for baddie? NOT A CHANCE!!! :rolleyes: Even if the venue if "neutral", it's only 25% chance (LCW will reach semi-final). ;)

RM$1mil is a nice carrot, but the donkey will NEVER get a bite on it :eek::D

[Dato A]

Well, at least I have put forward my stand which is zero gold in badminton for Malaysia in Beijing unlike some lalang. ;)

Malaysia Boleh!

Anything can happen.we cant simply predict.

Unless If u take into consideration of the LYB'gangs in which will do somethings,or so many things to help their player while they r playing in the court, then u r correct.Not only MAS get 0, all the nations excluding CHINA will also get 0.

FOR ALL WHO PLAN OR ALREADY CONFIRMED TO GO TO BEIJING FOR WATCHING BADMINTON GAMES, PLEASE BRING ALONG WITH U A HELMET.THROWING RACQUET INCIDENT/S MIGHT HAPPEN.SAFETY FIRST.

[Pemuda]

Anything can happen.we cant simply predict.

Unless If u take into consideration of the LYB'gangs in which will do somethings,or so many things to help their player while they r playing in the court, then u r correct.Not only MAS get 0, all the nations excluding CHINA will also get 0.

FOR ALL WHO PLAN OR ALREADY CONFIRMED TO GO TO BEIJING FOR WATCHING BADMINTON GAMES, PLEASE BRING ALONG WITH U A HELMET.THROWING RACQUET INCIDENT/S MIGHT HAPPEN.SAFETY FIRST.

If till today we are unable to win us that first Olympic gold, blame no 'LYB & gang' thingy or etc. We should look at ourselves first.

As for your anything can happen and we cant simply predict theory, well, we have been waiting for years for our first Olympic gold. Shall we continue to adopt this anything can happen thingy and continue to wait???

[Dato A]

Only badminton players should contribute olympic medals? Other sports?

If badminton cant produce any medals in olympics, i dont think others can do it. Maybe if got new games being introduce and MAS are very strong in it then we can grab the medals.

Most Potential Games - Mat Rempit Championship

[Pemuda]

Only badminton players should contribute olympic medals? Other sports?

If badminton cant produce any medals in olympics, i dont think others can do it. Maybe if got new games being introduce and MAS are very strong in it then we can grab the medals.

Most Potential Games - Mat Rempit Championship

Errr ... this thread is about Malaysia winning gold in badminton in Beijing. ;)

[jimbo]

Only badminton players should contribute olympic medals? Other sports?

If badminton cant produce any medals in olympics, i dont think others can do it. Maybe if got new games being introduce and MAS are very strong in it then we can grab the medals.

Most Potential Games - Mat Rempit Championship

Only if OG08 is held in Msia, we will win OG GOLD because of "Jaguh Kampung" :eek::p:D (just kidding, no offence to my fellow Msia-Boleh fans :p:D)

[Pemuda]

Only if OG08 is held in Msia, we will win OG GOLD because of "Jaguh Kampung" :eek::p:D (just kidding, no offence to my fellow Msia-Boleh fans :p:D)

I wouldnt bet on that either because we have a tendency to fall apart in major tournaments i.e. look what happened to us in the WC in KL last year. :(

[jimbo]

I wouldnt bet on that either because we have a tendency to fall apart in major tournaments i.e. look what happened to us in the WC in KL last year. :(

You didnt know what was missing, did you? It's Rashid Sidek (Jaguh Kampung) :eek::p

[Dato A]

You didnt know what was missing, did you? It's Rashid Sidek (Jaguh Kampung) :eek::p

That one is long time story already.

I wonder when MAS can organise Olympic?

[Dato A]

if LCW win and get paid RM1.0M, Misbun deserve 1/2 of it.

[eaglehelang]

Only badminton players should contribute olympic medals? Other sports?

If badminton cant produce any medals in olympics, i dont think others can do it. Maybe if got new games being introduce and MAS are very strong in it then we can grab the medals.

Most Potential Games - Mat Rempit Championship

Off Topic:
When Wushu is full fledged OG sport, gold is possible, this year Wushu is invitational, contested but not counted in official tally. We have 2007 female World Champ, 2006 AG Champ in Wushu, she's participating in OG. She's only 21 or 22, so future OG, we can watch out for her.

Cycling (Josiah Ng & gang) & Archery are medal possible, but not gold.

[Pemuda]

Off Topic:
When Wushu is full fledged OG sport, gold is possible, this year Wushu is invitational, contested but not counted in official tally. We have 2007 female World Champ, 2006 AG Champ in Wushu, she's participating in OG. She's only 21 or 22, so future OG, we can watch out for her.

Cycling (Josiah Ng & gang) & Archery are medal possible, but not gold.

Wushu???? :eek:

Josiah Ng??? :eek::eek:
Archery??? :eek:

[Loh]

Now that Malaysia has a new Minister of Sports, I wonder what are his thoughts on this matter? ;)

[pjswift]

Now that Malaysia has a new Minister of Sports, I wonder what are his thoughts on this matter? ;)
The latest news is NSC has come out with a new incentive scheme offering RM 1M or more for gold! I wonder if it's real or monopoly money.
Does NSC know BAM is still owing kkk/tbh and LCW like half a million ringgit(factoring 10% compound interest)?
Loh, in Singapore, our athletes get paid real money and quite promptly too , right?

[Dato A]

according to new minister, if mas cant get any medal in beijing then it's consider failed in beijing 2008 mission.

if like that, than he should step down as to responsible for the failure.

[Pemuda]

The latest news is NSC has come out with a new incentive scheme offering RM 1M or more for gold! I wonder if it's real or monopoly money.
Does NSC know BAM is still owing kkk/tbh and LCW like half a million ringgit(factoring 10% compound interest)?
Loh, in Singapore, our athletes get paid real money and quite promptly too , right?

Any Olympic gold in that cabinet?? :confused:

[Dato A]

Lcw Rm1,000,000.00, Koo Kien Keat Rm1,000,000.00 Tan Boon Heong Rm1,000,000.00 Wong Mew Choo Rm1,00,000.00 All Together Rm4,000,000.00. Nsc Please Prepare The Money......

[koo_fan]

Lcw Rm1,000,000.00, Koo Kien Keat Rm1,000,000.00 Tan Boon Heong Rm1,000,000.00 Wong Mew Choo Rm1,00,000.00 All Together Rm4,000,000.00. Nsc Please Prepare The Money......
How 'nice' support ya??

Any medal is a success.Lets pray for the best for OUR athletes.
They are all malaysians.
Im quite excited for olympic.Lets give them full support.

He have another scandal yesterday,isnt he?Player la u kkk.
Wont distracted his training session and games i hope.

[koo_fan]

Only if OG08 is held in Msia, we will win OG GOLD because of "Jaguh Kampung" :eek::p:D (just kidding, no offence to my fellow Msia-Boleh fans :p:D)
We will win when the time comes.
Long term projects ...proceed.
sport associations....suggest
athletes....keep working
fans....SUPPORT

[koo_fan]

Any Olympic gold in that cabinet?? :confused:
Agree with me on this.They spent a lot in football.
having left Malaysian League in 96,they proceed with fresh ideas.Means a lot of gov moneys goes to all these projects.
i think they are having a special project( i cant remember the details)begins in 1996.any singaporean can post..?

After more than 10 years,look at them.Anywhere,anytime..beat msl team easily.
I mean they invested a lot to produce their team today.
Foreigns players are there but the locals improving.

[cooler]

can the MAL players trust that pledge?
I just heard that MAL players are behind their pay by 6 months.

[koo_fan]

can the MAL players trust that pledge?
I just heard that MAL players are behind their pay by 6 months.
waah..u know better ha?
The allowances for the players were not payed.
Kind of sponsorship problem.

Wake up BAM!!!

[wood_22_chuck]

waah..u know better ha?
The allowances for the players were not payed.
Kind of sponsorship problem.

Wake up BAM!!!

You sort of sound like Pemuda now :D

-dave

[koo_fan]

I mean 6 months without allowances.
Still hoping them to win in olympic.

Not a 100 percent blame on Bam,though.
Juz make sure ur players are well taken care of.

3-4 moths before olympic,it shouldnt be an issue anymore

[eaglehelang]

can the MAL players trust that pledge?
I just heard that MAL players are behind their pay by 6 months.


waah..u know better ha?
The allowances for the players were not payed.
Kind of sponsorship problem.

Wake up BAM!!!


You sort of sound like Pemuda now :D

-dave

That was from the malay press Berita Harian, 29 Mar 2008 and 30 March 2008
http://www.bharian.com.my/Current_News/BH/Saturday/Sukan/20080329014404/Article/print_html (http://www.bharian.com.my/Current_News/BH/Saturday/Sukan/20080329014404/Article/print_html)
http://www.bharian.com.my/Current_News/BH/Sunday/Sukan/20080329232437/Article/print_html

It's NOT salary, but quarterly ranking allowance, the higher the ranking, the more allowance. This comes from sponsors (Proton, Yonex), not NSC. 50% of National Squad funding comes from NSC(government) & 50% from sponsors.
This is not new info, earlier this year was already highlighted.

Quarterly ranking allowance & BAM Presidential Bonus for winning SS titles (25% of prize monies) for 2007 was still owing to LCW, KKK/TBH in Jan 2008.
The info on how much is the ranking allowance is in the MD preview & Hafiz threads. Ranking allowance only paid to WR top 28, 24, 16 players, depending on department.

It was over the budget BAM had allocated - cos they didnt expect such good results, the $$$ from sponsors had already been agreed upon earlier.

To overcome it, BAM is looking for more sponsors. So far, Phiten is a new sponsor for 2008, figures not released, you all can read the news in the "Phiten" threads.

This latest BH news also said NSC is owing BAM RM2.5 mil for NSC part of the funding.
+ Jan 2008, NSC has announced reducing funding for all 8 core sports, badminton is core sports. The cut is irrespective of results as consistently successful sports like bowling & squash are also effected. With this, development level of the sports is effected.

As comparision, KLRC also pays bonuses for players who win titles. LTS & Sairul got RM20,000 for winning GP events, this was in KLRC website. It didnt state whether RN20,000 for 2 players or each of them get RM20,000
__________________________________________________ ______________

It has been announced by NSC Director that RM1mil to RM1.5 mil may be the reward for OG gold, final figures to be announced when it's approved. Government will also look into contribution from private sector in this regard, in addition to $$$ from government.
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Friday/Sport/2197716/Article/pppull_index_html (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Friday/Sport/2197716/Article/pppull_index_html)

The article wasnt posted cos it's not confirmed yet.

[cooler]

That was from the malay press Berita Harian, 29 Mar 2008 and 30 March 2008
http://www.bharian.com.my/Current_News/BH/Saturday/Sukan/20080329014404/Article/print_html (http://www.bharian.com.my/Current_News/BH/Saturday/Sukan/20080329014404/Article/print_html)
http://www.bharian.com.my/Current_News/BH/Sunday/Sukan/20080329232437/Article/print_html

It's NOT salary, but quarterly ranking allowance, the higher the ranking, the more allowance. This comes from sponsors (Proton, Yonex), not NSC. 50% of National Squad funding comes from NSC(government) & 50% from sponsors.
This is not new info, earlier this year was already highlighted.

Quarterly ranking allowance & BAM Presidential Bonus for winning SS titles (25% of prize monies) for 2007 was still owing to LCW, KKK/TBH in Jan 2008.
The info on how much is the ranking allowance is in the MD preview & Hafiz threads. Ranking allowance only paid to WR top 28, 24, 16 players, depending on department.

It was over the budget BAM had allocated - cos they didnt expect such good results, the $$$ from sponsors had already been agreed upon earlier.

To overcome it, BAM is looking for more sponsors. So far, Phiten is a new sponsor for 2008, figures not released, you all can read the news in the "Phiten" threads.

This latest BH news also said NSC is owing BAM RM2.5 mil for NSC part of the funding.
+ Jan 2008, NSC has announced reducing funding for all 8 core sports, badminton is core sports. The cut is irrespective of results as consistently successful sports like bowling & squash are also effected. With this, development level of the sports is effected.

As comparision, KLRC also pays bonuses for players who win titles. LTS & Sairul got RM20,000 for winning GP events, this was in KLRC website. It didnt state whether RN20,000 for 2 players or each of them get RM20,000
__________________________________________________ ______________

It has been announced by NSC Director that RM1mil to RM1.5 mil may be the reward for OG gold, final figures to be announced when it's approved. Government will also look into contribution from private sector in this regard, in addition to $$$ from government.
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Friday/Sport/2197716/Article/pppull_index_html (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Friday/Sport/2197716/Article/pppull_index_html)

The article wasnt posted cos it's not confirmed yet.
the person who passed me that info did said it was allowances but it was me mis-phased as salary.
The difference between winning and losing can be very small.It is BAM's responsibiltyto oversee their players are rewarded fairly and in time. It is unfair to demand consistent performance from their players when their own consistency is in question. It is a minor thing but as i've said earlier, the difference of winning versus losing can be very small.

[eaglehelang]

the person who passed me that info did said it was allowances but it was me mis-phased as salary.
The difference between winning and losing can be very small.It is BAM's responsibiltyto oversee their players are rewarded fairly and in time. It is unfair to demand consistent performance from their players when their own consistency is in question. It is a minor thing but as i've said earlier, the difference of winning versus losing can be very small.

It's ok, just that it's tedious to translate the malay news.
1) Like koo_fan said, it's not entirely BAM's fault, they are finding ways to add sponsors. BAM also has to top-up the monthly salary cos NSC has cut the monthly salary since sometime in 2007, basic is RM500.
This issue was highlighted cos it was found that KLRC pays higher monthly salary(starting is RM2,000, it was rumored in Malay press that KLRC offered Hafiz RM5,000, LCW gets RM3,000 from BAM) than NSC + BAM.

Only SEA Games/2006 Asia Games/2006 Commonwealth medalists get additional, depending on colour of medal won + those in 2008 OG prog(on merit only).
At least, baddy players still have the prize distribution from SS -> now perhaps you all have better idea why the 4 MD muskeeters(TBS/OngSH, Gan/ Lin) wanted to go independent.

2) And if NSC still owes BAM their part of the bargain, then BAM purse strings are very very tight. Apparently some of the other sports association also having same prob.

So, BAM players, i.e. National Squad are not getting plump allowances like some think. And it's not "fully funded" by government like some think - many think so cos NSC often poke their nose into BAM & players.
The private club KLRC gives better deal with less stress. Just that BAM players gets 1st pick for WC, OG, TC, Uber, Surdirman Cup.

[pjswift]

Are the coaches and managers owed any money? if they are not, why should players?
It is irresponsible to have a hollow incentive scheme.It reflects very poorly on the authorities and undermines their credibilty.Maybe credibility has no meaning or importance to them.
In Singapore the local companies are proud to be sponsors of the sports incentive scheme and they get tremendous publicity, eg beverage firms which would probably see enough sales increase to cover the sponsorship cost plus so much brand goodwill, so effectively the scheme's sponsored by the people.
It's hard to believe with so many big companies in M'sia, sponsorship can be a problem.Petronas, CIMB, Maybank etc.The cost of sports excellence has gone up, so should the sponsorship.What does Proton's sponsorship cover?
It's a joke that the NSC is always emphasising how much it costs nurturing elite athletes. What they don't see is the opportunity costs to athletes who don't make it. It's 10 years of their life before they know whether they gonna make it big and if they don't,they have to start from scratch somewhere.Does NSC compensate the opportunity costs of these 'lost years'?

[pjswift]

To be fair to MAS MDs Gan/lin and Ong/Tan, I don't think they thought of going independent because of the SS prize money.The SS money is still pitiful.Can't even cover costs unless they reach QF!
The reason is they have been deprived of matchplay and if that happens long enough, it actually takes a while to get back on competitive mode. Also, their ranking slides because of ranking point loss through non-participation.The danger point is if it slides enough that they have to play qualifying in SS like rookies.That's not the way to treat MDs who may not have reached their limit (although they have not won any international title.) It's more an oversight of some BAM people who cannot read consequences ahead.Don't they think at all?

[eaglehelang]

Pjswift, see....
that's why BAM is highlighting in the press they need more sponsors. Squash did that & go added funding from their main sponsor CIMB. So, no need to depend so much on government.

According the figures released by BAM, in 2007, NSC/government funded RM2.5 mil, Proton 2.5 mil, Yonex 1.8 mil. If the contracts states Proton & Yonex give such & such $$$, sponsors have done their part.
BAM didnt anticipate, esp our MD to do so well, after so many years of failures, no one can say for sure win or not, right ?. -> now getting more sponsors loh.

They need to sign contacts with the new sponsors, check if any clause in contract with Proton & Yonex has conflict of interest. I havent read of Proton making statements about their part of the deal.
They are also other 'minor' sponsors like 100 Plus, but both 100 Plus & BAM never highlight, so I just assume it's minor sponsor.

[pjswift]

Olympic Bonus Sponsorship should be a different package separate from the regular Yonex, Proton deals.What NSC should understand is marketers need time to plan their campaign to maximise the mileage from their sponsorship.Also their marketing budget may have been allocated for this year.(But they can always set aside from next year?)In any case, the fastest way to get action is to call their advertising agencies and let them know of the opportunity and the ad. agencies will come out with the ideas to convince their clients. That's what ad. agencies are for and what they're good at, with very fast turnaround time.

[eaglehelang]

To be fair to MAS MDs Gan/lin and Ong/Tan, I don't think they thought of going independent because of the SS prize money.The SS money is still pitiful.Can't even cover costs unless they reach QF!
.............It's more an oversight of some BAM people who cannot read consequences ahead.Don't they think at all?

errrr, that's covered in prof players thread. By "Independent" I mean like CCM/CCE, sponsored but no coach, not under club.

originally they were grounded by Rexy for not doing well in tourneys. Denmark & France only top 2 pairs were sent - KKK/TBH, CTF/LWW. In China & HK SS, Gan/Lin came in last in selection between 3 pairs, they didnt get to go. TBS/Ong, Zakry/Fairuz went along with KKK/TBH, CTF/LWW.

So, it's between Rexy's punishment & BAM's budget. The end of the 'drama' was the 4 of them were willing to look for own sponsors if BAM couldnt send them but they still want to train under Rexy. BAM will look for more sponsors for them.
It could also be seen as undermining Rexy's authority cos BAM & NSC let them go tourneys when Rexy had selection trials to get them in healthy competitive mode.

[Loh]

Any Olympic gold in that cabinet?? :confused:

No gold yet, that's why this S$1million continues to be given as the incentive, now that Singapore is in a better financial position to do so. How they will pay out this million should there be a winner is not known yet. But I believe this will be paid for sure.

Getting an Olympic gold medal is a gigantic task for tiny Singapore and the intangible impact will be worth it.

The closest that Singapore achieved was a silver medal in the Rome Olympics weight lifting by Tan Howe Liang, who unfortunately was born at a wrong time as he was not adequately rewarded then.

Our chance at the bronze medal is in table tennis. They missed this medal twice during the previous two Olympics. But the reward is only S$250,000, not too bad by world standards.

[yen_saw]

I bet any of the Malaysian who actually won a gold in OG will get more than million....

[Loh]

I bet any of the Malaysian who actually won a gold in OG will get more than million....

Actually I will not be surprised since at that time when Malaysia first won the Thomas Cup, the players were all handsomely rewarded, especially the better players, though not 100% in cash but together with land, houses, cars, commercial endorsements, etc, etc. :D;)

[Dato A]

Actually I will not be surprised since at that time when Malaysia first won the Thomas Cup, the players were all handsomely rewarded, especially the better players, though not 100% in cash but together with land, houses, cars, commercial endorsements, etc, etc. :D;)

MAS TEAM - 1992 thomas cup winner

Rashid Sidek
Foo Kok Keong
Razif and Jalani Sidek
Cheah Soon Kit and Soo Beng Kiang
Kuan Yoke Meng

Which one is the ''better player'' and which one is ''not better player''? I thought all players get equal rewards.

[yen_saw]

Yeah i remember the good old time when Malaysia last lifted Thomas cup, those prizes and money definately worth more than million to each player, and way more now if you include the inflation:D

Soo Beng Kiang is from my home town - Sungai Petani, he visited us sometimes (this has a lot to do with my sister;), although he was one of my mom's student), is a shame he quit sooner after his partnership with Cheah Soon Kit fallen apart.

[Loh]

MAS TEAM - 1992 thomas cup winner

Rashid Sidek
Foo Kok Keong
Razif and Jalani Sidek
Cheah Soon Kit and Soo Beng Kiang
Kuan Yoke Meng

Which one is the ''better player'' and which one is ''not better player''? I thought all players get equal rewards.

Well some players maybe got more sponsors and commercial endorsements than others after their TC success. ;)

[ants]

And i hope the government have learned their lessons.

[abedeng]

Actually I will not be surprised since at that time when Malaysia first won the Thomas Cup, the players were all handsomely rewarded, especially the better players, though not 100% in cash but together with land, houses, cars, commercial endorsements, etc, etc. :D;)

The difference here is that the major rewards were announced after victory. Whereas now, the rewards are made public even before the first shuttle is struck. Malaysian players are a peculiar lot, the promises of rewards generally put them under more pressure to perform ...... :p

In the 60s-80s, our "non-profitable" football team was among the top in Asia. Even a state team like Selangor could beat Arsenal ...... :p And they don't get paid for it.

[pjswift]

The difference here is that the major rewards were announced after victory. Whereas now, the rewards are made public even before the first shuttle is struck. Malaysian players are a peculiar lot, the promises of rewards generally put them under more pressure to perform ...... :p

In the 60s-80s, our "non-profitable" football team was among the top in Asia. Even a state team like Selangor could beat Arsenal ...... :p And they don't get paid for it.
Oh, better let NSC know not to announce any incentive scheme.
In Spore, incentive scheme is a must because the opportunity cost in diverting to sports is very high.

[Noridayu]

Malaysia sport minister has announced the rewards package to the players.He hope that he can find more sponsor to give better rewards. He said,"Malaysia best hope still lies on our badminton players,".He will meet with KKK &TBH soon and maybe LCW too.

[Pemuda]

Malaysia sport minister has announced the rewards package to the players.He hope that he can find more sponsor to give better rewards. He said,"Malaysia best hope still lies on our badminton players,".He will meet with KKK &TBH soon and maybe LCW too.

It wont work. You can place a RM1.0billion ringgit reward for that first Olympic gold and Malaysia with its current standards wont be able to deliver.

The Sports Minister should be looking at the basics - grassroots, administration rather than coming up with some short term solution. Dangling a big financial reward wont help our sportsmen/women to win that Olympic gold. He should be looking at the long term and restructure how we administer all our sports associations. I am sorry the revised financial carrot is a populist decision. It will still not bring us that Olympic gold in Beijing.

I likened this revised financial thingy to our recent space program - no need to come up with a long term space program, just go out and buy a ticket off the Russians and we are off to space.

[Dato A]

It wont work. You can place a RM1.0billion ringgit reward for that first Olympic gold and Malaysia with its current standards wont be able to deliver.

The Sports Minister should be looking at the basics - grassroots, administration rather than coming up with some short term solution. Dangling a big financial reward wont help our sportsmen/women to win that Olympic gold. He should be looking at the long term and restructure how we administer all our sports associations. I am sorry the revised financial carrot is a populist decision. It will still not bring us that Olympic gold in Beijing.

I likened this revised financial thingy to our recent space program - no need to come up with a long term space program, just go out and buy a ticket off the Russians and we are off to space.

That's the only way government able to do.

[Pemuda]

That's the only way government able to do.

Yesterday's The Sun papers ran an article ; http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=21506 where our Sports Ministry basically threw away RM11 million for nothing. Have a read and pay special attention to the breakdown of the accounts.

Now, how in the world are Malaysia gonna be successful in the Olympics when we have idiots running our sports associations?

[jimbo]

I likened this revised financial thingy to our recent space program - no need to come up with a long term space program, just go out and buy a ticket off the Russians and we are off to space.

Are u telling us that Msia should just pay RM$1mil to buy Taufik or LD to win our first OG GOLD? My fren, I live in SG for yrs and most of my "sports" frens aint proud of their "non-local-breed" paddlers and baddies. ;)

We all hope LCW will win the gold but not someone with the name like Ronaldhino or Kaka representing Msia :eek::D

[Loh]

Are u telling us that Msia should just pay RM$1mil to buy Taufik or LD to win our first OG GOLD? My fren, I live in SG for yrs and most of my "sports" frens aint proud of their "non-local-breed" paddlers and baddies. ;)

We all hope LCW will win the gold but not someone with the name like Ronaldhino or Kaka representing Msia :eek::D

But are you a Singaporean or a Malaysian in the first place? :D

Many of our pioneer "non-local bred" politicians were born in Malaysia but we are very proud of them for having contributed to the success of Singapore.

We will similarly be very proud of foreign-bred sports people who can contribute to Singapore's sporting success. :)

[Pemuda]

Are u telling us that Msia should just pay RM$1mil to buy Taufik or LD to win our first OG GOLD? My fren, I live in SG for yrs and most of my "sports" frens aint proud of their "non-local-breed" paddlers and baddies. ;)

We all hope LCW will win the gold but not someone with the name like Ronaldhino or Kaka representing Msia :eek::D

My dear fren, when I say I likened the revised financial thingy to our recent space program, I meant instead of developing our shuttlers with solid grassroot programs administered by professionals, we instead go for the quick fix solution.

As for your Kaka or Ronaldinho representing Msia thingy, I would like to remind you that we now live in globalized world. Having naturalised foreign nationals representing Msia or whatsoever, I have no problems actually. After all, when France won the football world cup in 98', they too had a few players who were not born in France i.e. Patrick Viera, Thuram, etc. John Barnes was born in Jamaica and he represented England. The same goes for Owen Hargreaves who is a Canadian. ;)

I know you live in Singapore, and I wonder whether your frens there are proud of the "non-local-breed" doctors, surgeons, nurses, architects, scientists, accountants etc?? :D:p I mean if one wanna be nationalistic, one should be nationalistic for all la. ;)

[jimbo]

As for your Kaka or Ronaldinho representing Msia thingy, I would like to remind you that we now live in globalized world. Having naturalised foreign nationals representing Msia or whatsoever, I have no problems actually. After all, when France won the football world cup in 98', they too had a few players who were not born in France i.e. Patrick Viera, Thuram, etc. John Barnes was born in Jamaica and he represented England. The same goes for Owen Hargreaves who is a Canadian. ;)

Honestly speaking, I do have problems if our "Msia" players are non-local-bred :cool: I am talking about Nationalism, not so much on patriotism :rolleyes: I have no doubts for their ability and sportmanship, but where their hearts lie is what it counts ;)

How would u feel if our top baddie's name sounds like Latin or African? hmm...

[Loh]

Honestly speaking, I do have problems if our "Msia" players are non-local-bred :cool: I am talking about Nationalism, not so much on patriotism :rolleyes: I have no doubts for their ability and sportmanship, but where their hearts lie is what it counts ;)

How would u feel if our top baddie's name sounds like Latin or African? hmm...

We have to learn to accept change, different names but same objective.

Even some local bred citizens may not turn out to be good and nationalistic. Some commit vicious crimes, others sell the country's secrets which can cause much damage to lives and property later.

Of course there is no guarantee that foreign talents will always turn out to be ideal as in the case of the local born who may turn out to be an enemy of the country.

Take the case of the United States of America. Different people with different names, different colours, from all over the world who became citizens with the common objective of improving their lives and that of their adopted country. It is not easy to adapt to changes but for survival and for the betterment of mankind, we need to try. :D

[Pemuda]

Honestly speaking, I do have problems if our "Msia" players are non-local-bred :cool: I am talking about Nationalism, not so much on patriotism :rolleyes: I have no doubts for their ability and sportmanship, but where their hearts lie is what it counts ;)

How would u feel if our top baddie's name sounds like Latin or African? hmm...

If we really wanna go 100% local, then lets do so for all. By that our shuttlers must be Malaysians born in Malaysia. The same goes for the coaches as well. ;) We should not hire Rexy etc. We should instead hire a Jalani Sidek or Soo Beng Kiang instead. This is what Nationalism is all about.

As for baddie's names sounding like Latin or African??? Let me ask you this question then? What is really a Malaysian name??? Is a Micheal Chen or Kevin Chong or Mohd Eddy or Steven Subra Malaysian names?? And if we wanna talk about Malaysian Nationalism, shouldnt we all have Malaysian names instead??

[jimbo]

As for baddie's names sounding like Latin or African??? Let me ask you this question then? What is really a Malaysian name??? Is a Micheal Chen or Kevin Chong or Mohd Eddy or Steven Subra Malaysian names?? And if we wanna talk about Malaysian Nationalism, shouldnt we all have Malaysian names instead??

OK OK OK... if one day a guy with the name "Ronaldhino Fernandez Comez" won OG GOLD for Msia, then u tell me how u feel :cool:

Btw, is RM$1mil a lot of money? Can the player retired comfortably? ;)

[Loh]

OK OK OK... if one day a guy with the name "Ronaldhino Fernandez Comez" won OG GOLD for Msia, then u tell me how u feel :cool:

Btw, is RM$1mil a lot of money? Can the player retired comfortably? ;)

Now the other thing to recognize is that you may be a local-born but your forefathers came from elsewhere. Now you are accepted by your forefather's adopted country because they paved they way for you, they made their contributions then as foreigners in a distant land.

The local people then may find your forefather's name very strange, certainly it did not gel with the local names. But as time went by, they accepted these changes and welcome the foreigners to share in the country's development and enjoy the benefits.

If you think about the present day concept of foreign talent, it is not much different. That is why Singapore has this open-door policy because Singapore has been a migrant city for centuries. It was the foreigners who made the contributions to bring about modern Singapore and continued to make this tiny island meaningful not only to the lives of its own people but also to the outside world.

[jimbo]

uncle Loh, in terms of business/economic/social, I'm 100% agree with U. And I myself is a good example of living/working in a foreign country and 99% of the locals accept my contributions/participations to the local society and definitely welcome me with a open arms. No doubt about that :)

In terms of sports, that's different perspective. What is the root cause of "importing" or "scouting" for young talents? I dont see China/INA/Msia (in badminton ONLY) implementing the "scouting" process and why?

OK, for the sake of $1mil, will u let ur talented baddie kid to play/train/live in a foreign country? ;)

[Loh]

uncle Loh, in terms of business/economic/social, I'm 100% agree with U. And I myself is a good example of living/working in a foreign country and 99% of the locals accept my contributions/participations to the local society and definitely welcome me with a open arms. No doubt about that :)

In terms of sports, that's different perspective. What is the root cause of "importing" or "scouting" for young talents? I dont see China/INA/Msia (in badminton ONLY) implementing the "scouting" process and why?

OK, for the sake of $1mil, will u let ur talented baddie kid to play/train/live in a foreign country? ;)

Again you're making exceptions. You must not isolate sports and say it is different from say economic contribution. Nowadays human endeavours are all interlinked.

Sporting success can swell into other areas, whether economic, social, educational or political. Sports talents are required as much as we require business talent, entrepreneurs, scientists, etc.

They are required to help us build up our sports industry, to gain recognition in the sports world. They are needed to raise the standards of our local athletes not used to competing at a high level. Otherwise it will take us a much more longer time to achieve regional and international success.

It doesn't matter where they come from, so long as they qualify to represent Singapore and win an Olympic medal, this brings success to the country. We gain instant world recognition if our athletes achieved the Olympic gold. Remember success breeds success. It will then be easier for local born athletes to emulate the successful foreign talent.

[ctjcad]

Honestly speaking, I do have problems if our "Msia" players are non-local-bred :cool: I am talking about Nationalism, not so much on patriotism :rolleyes: I have no doubts for their ability and sportmanship, but where their hearts lie is what it counts;)
...
..in a way, i concur with the statement in bold. I think, at the end, what matters is in one's heart.:cool:

We have to learn to accept change, different names but same objective.

Even some local bred citizens may not turn out to be good and nationalistic. Some commit vicious crimes, others sell the country's secrets which can cause much damage to lives and property later.
...
..i would concur also with the statements above. Whether a person is born in another country or raised in another country or have different names, at the end of the day, it comes down to one's loyalty and heart for which country s/he wants to "fight" or "defend" for.:cool:

If we really wanna go 100% local, then lets do so for all. By that our shuttlers must be Malaysians born in Malaysia. The same goes for the coaches as well. ;) We should not hire Rexy etc. We should instead hire a Jalani Sidek or Soo Beng Kiang instead. This is what Nationalism is all about.
...
..on that note, we, the U.S. would love to import/have some of the badminton talents from overseas (M'sia, for one) play here..:cool:;)

[singhzico]

:cool:
My dear fren, when I say I likened the revised financial thingy to our recent space program, I meant instead of developing our shuttlers with solid grassroot programs administered by professionals, we instead go for the quick fix solution.

As for your Kaka or Ronaldinho representing Msia thingy, I would like to remind you that we now live in globalized world. Having naturalised foreign nationals representing Msia or whatsoever, I have no problems actually. After all, when France won the football world cup in 98', they too had a few players who were not born in France i.e. Patrick Viera, Thuram, etc. John Barnes was born in Jamaica and he represented England. The same goes for Owen Hargreaves who is a Canadian. ;)

I know you live in Singapore, and I wonder whether your frens there are proud of the "non-local-breed" doctors, surgeons, nurses, architects, scientists, accountants etc?? :D:p I mean if one wanna be nationalistic, one should be nationalistic for all la. ;)
:)Just 2 correct the error statement Owen Hargreaves is not canadian e only lived n canada 4 a few years.Thank u

[Jagdpanther]

..on that note, we, the U.S. would love to import/have some of the badminton talents from overseas (M'sia, for one) play here..:cool:;)
That's understandable. But for traditional badminton countries like INA, MAS, CHN, some poeple might think, "Have we been so weak that we have to import foreign players to win?" Talk about pride here.

[Pemuda]

:cool:
:)Just 2 correct the error statement Owen Hargreaves is not canadian e only lived n canada 4 a few years.Thank u

Here, please look up Owen Hargreaves's info; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Hargreaves

It says born in Calgary, Alberta, Canada :rolleyes:

Pretty self explanatory. Thank you :D

[Pemuda]

OK OK OK... if one day a guy with the name "Ronaldhino Fernandez Comez" won OG GOLD for Msia, then u tell me how u feel :cool:

Btw, is RM$1mil a lot of money? Can the player retired comfortably? ;)

I be happy and proud. Makes no difference whether a Ronaldinho Fernandez Comez or a Kevin Lam Ah Chong or a Muthu s/o Doraisamy or a Ali bin Baba win a gold for Malaysia to me. I be proud all the same. :D

RM1mil is a lot of money. Can someone retire comfotably with that kind of cash??? Well, it depends on that person's lifestyle actually.

[Pemuda]

[quote=ctjcad;849659
..on that note, we, the U.S. would love to import/have some of the badminton talents from overseas (M'sia, for one) play here..:cool:;)[/quote]

You are more than welcome to take Hafiz Hashim. :)

[Pemuda]

uncle Loh, in terms of business/economic/social, I'm 100% agree with U. And I myself is a good example of living/working in a foreign country and 99% of the locals accept my contributions/participations to the local society and definitely welcome me with a open arms. No doubt about that :)

In terms of sports, that's different perspective. What is the root cause of "importing" or "scouting" for young talents? I dont see China/INA/Msia (in badminton ONLY) implementing the "scouting" process and why?

OK, for the sake of $1mil, will u let ur talented baddie kid to play/train/live in a foreign country? ;)

... but you are talking about Nationalism: "I am talking about Nationalism, not so much on patriotism". As such, why move the goalpost when it comes to business/economic/social settings? You cant have Nationalism in bits here and there.

Ok in sporting terms, China had foreign help. They previously had a Serbian and a Englishman coaching their national football team.

[singhzico]

Here, please look up Owen Hargreaves's info; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Hargreaves

It says born in Calgary, Alberta, Canada :rolleyes:

Pretty self explanatory. Thank you :D
:):):) Yes he was born in canada
but he had a choice 2 play 4 Germany or England during the world cup and he declined 2 play 4 canada:):):):) Yes technically he can't choose 3 countries only 2.:):):)

[Pemuda]

:):):) Yes he was born in canada
but he had a choice 2 play 4 Germany or England during the world cup and he declined 2 play 4 canada:):):):) Yes technically he can't choose 3 countries only 2.:):):)

Dude, whether he had a choice to either represent Germany or England is not the issue. I am replying to your following statement; "Just 2 correct the error statement Owen Hargreaves is not canadian e only lived n canada 4 a few years". :)

[singhzico]

Dude, whether he had a choice to either represent Germany or England is not the issue. I am replying to your following statement; "Just 2 correct the error statement Owen Hargreaves is not canadian e only lived n canada 4 a few years". :)


:)Owen gave up his canadian citizenship so technically he is not a canadian He carries England and German status:)

[Pemuda]

:)Owen gave up his canadian citizenship so technically he is not a canadian He carries England and German status:)

He could be Somalian now for all I care BUT the fact is the man was born in Canada ;):)

[ctjcad]

That's understandable. But for traditional badminton countries like INA, MAS, CHN, some poeple might think, "Have we been so weak that we have to import foreign players to win?" Talk about pride here.
...those 3 countries, mentioned above, currently don't have foreign players/talents playing in & representing their respective national teams; or playing in their 1st teams. And IMO, it's got to do with them having more/an abundance of talents; not so much of national pride etc. :)

[singhzico]

He could be Somalian now for all I care BUT the fact is the man was born in Canada ;):)
:) He was born in Canada But he gave his Cdn rights and he refused 2 play 4 canada:) And he gave up his citizenship:):)Does that make him a canadian?

[Pemuda]

:) He was born in Canada But he gave his Cdn rights and he refused 2 play 4 canada:) And he gave up his citizenship:):)Does that make him a canadian?

The fact still remains that the lad was born in Canada, not England.:p

[Jagdpanther]

...those 3 countries, mentioned above, currently don't have foreign players/talents playing in & representing their respective national teams; or playing in their 1st teams. And IMO, it's got to do with them having more/an abundance of talents; not so much of national pride etc. :)

USA, despite its 3 hundred millions population, has hard time to find a group of talented shuttlers?
It's just like us Indonesians. 2 hundred millions people, yet, we can't find 22 people (+1 coach) competent enough to send INA to its first FIFA WC.:)

And we are 63 this year.:)

[ctjcad]

USA, despite its 3 hundred millions population, has hard time to find a group of talented shuttlers?
It's just like us Indonesians. 2 hundred millions people, yet, we can't find 22 people (+1 coach) competent enough to send INA to its first FIFA WC.:)

And we are 63 this year.:)
..for the U.S., badminton is definitely not one of its popular sports, so it's understandable. For other countries, the 3 you mentioned above, badminton is one of its top sports. Esp. soccer in INA, it's arguably one of its popular sports there. Why they're struggling to send a team to any FIFA WC? That i don't know exactly, but perhaps the talents or money/funds are simply not there.
It all comes down to talents (to an extent funding) and how much a country has or can provide.;)
As far as "pride of a nation"("proud tradition"), i think it has got to do with mostly the history of the sport in its country. Does INA have any soccer tradition, world-wide?? I'm sure it does with badminton..:);)

[Jagdpanther]

As far as "pride of a nation"("proud tradition"), i think it has got to do with mostly the history of the sport in its country. Does INA have any soccer tradition, world-wide?? I'm sure it does with badminton..:);)

While I must admit that our football is not strong (at all ;)) and we don't have strong football tradition, we still have some pride in our local players.

When SIN won Tiger Cup (AFC Cup later, a regional football competition between SEA countries), many people commented, "Meh, they won thanks to their imported players..."

Many also strongly opposed the plan to naturalize Brazilian and Argentinian footballers to reinforce our national team.:)

[ctjcad]

While I must admit that our football is not strong (at all ;)) and we don't have strong football tradition, we still have some pride in our local players.
...
..i'm sure all countries have some sort of "pride" for their "local" players...;)
:p..Btw, what was the point you were trying to make in your post #125?...i'm confused??..:confused: :D:p

[Jagdpanther]

..i'm sure all countries have some sort of "pride" for their "local" players...;)
:p..Btw, what was the point you were trying to make in your post #125?...i'm confused??..:confused: :D:p

Sorry, my poor English.

What I mean is, although we're not strong in a specific sport, we still prefer local (INA born) athletes to imported ones, despite having higher chance to get better achievement if we choose the latter.

In my first example, it's implied that many of us were not impressed by SIN's victory, because the team was not entirely consisted of local-breed players.

[llpjlau]

The fact still remains that the lad was born in Canada, not England.:p

he is nationally Canadian, English and Welsh?. therefore, that does not make him Canadian. technically, it would not be right to call him a Canadian because not only is he an English international player, but also living in Manchester. hence, it would be best to call him English, or English with Canadian and Welsh? citizenship.
however, he is definitely not a home-grown player. he came through the ranks of Bayern Munich's youth squad.

i don't mind if Malaysia has a non home-grown shuttler. i would still call him/her a Malaysian if they have Malaysian citizenship. it would be wrong however to send scouts to China and bring back a nationally Chinese individual and offer them Malaysian citizenship to play for Malaysia.

now if a Brazilian engineer named Pedro Silva migrated to Malaysia for better job opportunities, brings his family along with him, has a child named Felipe Silva who is a great badminton player, lives in Malaysia for sufficient amount of time and gets Malaysian citizenship (which i hear is almost impossible), then that would be alright for Felipe to play for Malaysia.

[jimbo]

i don't mind if Malaysia has a non home-grown shuttler. i would still call him/her a Malaysian if they have Malaysian citizenship. it would be wrong however to send scouts to China and bring back a nationally Chinese individual and offer them Malaysian citizenship to play for Malaysia.


wise men think alike. Look like SG (badminton and table tennis), u will be suprised that the non-local outnumber the local in the national team. Nothing wrong, just "buying" success like Chelsea :rolleyes:

No, I do NOT want to see Ronaldhino Gondalez Lopez play for Msia MS1 ;)

[llpjlau]

wise men think alike. Look like SG (badminton and table tennis), u will be suprised that the non-local outnumber the local in the national team. Nothing wrong, just "buying" success like Chelsea :rolleyes:

No, I do NOT want to see Ronaldhino Gondalez Lopez play for Msia MS1 ;)

there is a difference between Ronaldinho Gondalez Lopez playing for Malaysia if he is a Malaysian citizen through the "proper" means. as in my earlier example, Felipe Silva has every right to play for Malaysia.

as long as Malaysia does not "buy" sportsmen, i'm content.


edit:
BTW, was Ronald Susilo "bought" by Singapore? or did his parents migrate there? since Singapore is also a melting pot of cultures and races like Malaysia.

[ctjcad]

...
What I mean is, although we're not strong in a specific sport, we still prefer local (INA born) athletes to imported ones, despite having higher chance to get better achievement if we choose the latter.

In my first example, it's implied that many of us were not impressed by SIN's victory, because the team was not entirely consisted of local-breed players.
:)...no, actually i got lost by your post(#125) because you had mentioned something about the 3 top badminton countries (CHN, INA & MAS) importing foreign players?? (at least that's what i understood in your post). But then i checked and didn't see any foreign players playing for those 3 countries, at least for their 1st squad...thus i made the subsequent post...anyway, it's good..;):cool:

[jimbo]

edit:
BTW, was Ronald Susilo "bought" by Singapore? or did his parents migrate there? since Singapore is also a melting pot of cultures and races like Malaysia.

I have no right to comment but if u live in SG and watch the local junior tourneys, u should have all the questions answered ;)

[Pemuda]

he is nationally Canadian, English and Welsh?. therefore, that does not make him Canadian. technically, it would not be right to call him a Canadian because not only is he an English international player, but also living in Manchester. hence, it would be best to call him English, or English with Canadian and Welsh? citizenship.
however, he is definitely not a home-grown player. he came through the ranks of Bayern Munich's youth squad.

i don't mind if Malaysia has a non home-grown shuttler. i would still call him/her a Malaysian if they have Malaysian citizenship. it would be wrong however to send scouts to China and bring back a nationally Chinese individual and offer them Malaysian citizenship to play for Malaysia.

now if a Brazilian engineer named Pedro Silva migrated to Malaysia for better job opportunities, brings his family along with him, has a child named Felipe Silva who is a great badminton player, lives in Malaysia for sufficient amount of time and gets Malaysian citizenship (which i hear is almost impossible), then that would be alright for Felipe to play for Malaysia.

It is very simple, the lad was born in Canada, thus he is a Canadian. Like myself, since I was born in Malaysia, I am a Malaysian, despite the fact that my parents are malay/chinese.

Why is it wrong to send out scouts to China and bring back talent and give them citizenships?? If that is wrong to you then for those professionals who migrated or were offered jobs & citizenships in Australia, Singapore, UK, US etc ... that should be wrong too.

As for your theory on Pedro Silva and his child Felipe, can you tell me how much is 'sufficient amount of time'?? 20 years? 30 years?? Why such restrictions for sportsmen/women?? Why not apply your theory across the board i.e. say you are born in Malaysia, but when you move over to Australia, you are not allowed to work there or be given PR or citizenship for a 'sufficient amount of time' ;)

[Pemuda]

wise men think alike. Look like SG (badminton and table tennis), u will be suprised that the non-local outnumber the local in the national team. Nothing wrong, just "buying" success like Chelsea :rolleyes:

No, I do NOT want to see Ronaldhino Gondalez Lopez play for Msia MS1 ;)

Why only look at SG badminton. Look at the health industry in Singapore. In most hospitals, how many doctors and nurses are Singapore born and bred?

Again, nothing wrong in just "buying" success ... like Chelsea. ;)

You do not want to see a Ronaldo Gondalez Lopez play for Msia is as good as those Singaporeans not wanting to see you lot going over to their country and taking up their jobs etc. ;)

[jimbo]

Why only look at SG badminton. Look at the health industry in Singapore. In most hospitals, how many doctors and nurses are Singapore born and bred?

Again, nothing wrong in just "buying" success ... like Chelsea. ;)

You do not want to see a Ronaldo Gondalez Lopez play for Msia is as good as those Singaporeans not wanting to see you lot going over to their country and taking up their jobs etc. ;)

The reason is because we are in BADMINTON FORUM!!! :cool: That's why I mainly focus on baddie... ;)

Looking at those countries "scouting" or "buying" foreign talents, tell me pls, did they raise the level of standard in their "adopted" countries? Eg France or Germany, they have few CHN players playing under their banners and won few big tourneys (nothing wrong with that). But, how's their teamates fare in comparison to them? Honestly, I only remember YipPuiYin and HuXieWen (sorry, not sure about the spelling) for France and Germany, and the rest, err... do they ever exist as far as SS is concerned? Beat me... :rolleyes:

[Pemuda]

The reason is because we are in BADMINTON FORUM!!! :cool: That's why I mainly focus on baddie... ;)

Looking at those countries "scouting" or "buying" foreign talents, tell me pls, did they raise the level of standard in their "adopted" countries? Eg France or Germany, they have few CHN players playing under their banners and won few big tourneys (nothing wrong with that). But, how's their teamates fare in comparison to them? Honestly, I only remember YipPuiYin and HuXieWen (sorry, not sure about the spelling) for France and Germany, and the rest, err... do they ever exist as far as SS is concerned? Beat me... :rolleyes:

But you are talking about NATIONALISM in a badminton forum i.e. "I am talking about Nationalism, not so much on patriotism". If you are talking about NATIONALISM then it covers all aspect. :rolleyes: You cant just focus on baddie when you talk about NATIONALISM.

In terms of history when it comes to badminton, France & Germany are the new boys as compared to China, Indonesia or Malaysia.

Why Malaysia hired a foreign coach in Rexy? Morten Frost, Li Mao, Yang Yang etc previously? What happened to your nationalism?? :o

[llpjlau]

It is very simple, the lad was born in Canada, thus he is a Canadian. Like myself, since I was born in Malaysia, I am a Malaysian, despite the fact that my parents are malay/chinese.

Why is it wrong to send out scouts to China and bring back talent and give them citizenships?? If that is wrong to you then for those professionals who migrated or were offered jobs & citizenships in Australia, Singapore, UK, US etc ... that should be wrong too.

As for your theory on Pedro Silva and his child Felipe, can you tell me how much is 'sufficient amount of time'?? 20 years? 30 years?? Why such restrictions for sportsmen/women?? Why not apply your theory across the board i.e. say you are born in Malaysia, but when you move over to Australia, you are not allowed to work there or be given PR or citizenship for a 'sufficient amount of time' ;)

i am not completely sure if Hargreaves still has his Canadian citizenship or not but if he does not, then he is not Canadian. same applies to you if you do not have Malaysian citizenship. and the fact that you have Malay/Chinese ancestry does not change whether you are Malaysian or not. who is talking about race?

different people see "buying" talent (ie in sports) differently. you obviously approve of it. i to a certain extent disagree with it. and thats that.
for Felipe, he migrated to Malaysia for the right reasons. i did state that his father Pedro decided to migrate there for better job opportunities. hence, Malaysia would not be "buying" talent for their badminton squad.

but all this is way off topic.

its true that the Malaysian system of doing things is rather queer at times. of course offering rm1,000,000 won't change things in the long run. i agree with you that there must be a huge overhaul of the whole system. start from the top, appoint proper administrators- not some Datuk who can barely do anything.
desperate times call for desperate measures. if they want to offer that amount of money to a Gold-medallist, then fine. its still a solution, but a short term one. some people play better with the promise of more incentives.

[jimbo]

In terms of history when it comes to badminton, France & Germany are the new boys as compared to China, Indonesia or Malaysia.

Why Malaysia hired a foreign coach in Rexy? Morten Frost, Li Mao, Yang Yang etc previously? What happened to your nationalism?? :o

The reason why certain country (I know one country) "scounts" or "buys" baddie player is because they wanna achieve as what Chelsea has ;) ie, "buying" immediate success while hoping to raise the level of standard. In terms of baddie, "that" country has failed miserably (to raise the standard) and it has backfired by the local media (as far as the funds are concerned) :cool:

You can hire the best coach in the world but it's PLAYERS who go into the baddie court to fight. Never take away credits from coaches, but try to put them in Germany or France, let's see if they can achieve what YipPuiYin has achieved ;)

Hiring foreign coaches is to raise the level of the game, NOT to buy success!!! As much as I admire Rexy, I still hope Cheah/Yap to win the eluded OG Gold won by Rexy/Ricky.

[Pemuda]

i am not completely sure if Hargreaves still has his Canadian citizenship or not but if he does not, then he is not Canadian. same applies to you if you do not have Malaysian citizenship. and the fact that you have Malay/Chinese ancestry does not change whether you are Malaysian or not. who is talking about race?

different people see "buying" talent (ie in sports) differently. you obviously approve of it. i to a certain extent disagree with it. and thats that.
for Felipe, he migrated to Malaysia for the right reasons. i did state that his father Pedro decided to migrate there for better job opportunities. hence, Malaysia would not be "buying" talent for their badminton squad.

but all this is way off topic.

its true that the Malaysian system of doing things is rather queer at times. of course offering rm1,000,000 won't change things in the long run. i agree with you that there must be a huge overhaul of the whole system. start from the top, appoint proper administrators- not some Datuk who can barely do anything.
desperate times call for desperate measures. if they want to offer that amount of money to a Gold-medallist, then fine. its still a solution, but a short term one. some people play better with the promise of more incentives.

Even if Hargreaves gave up his Canadian status, he cant change his place of birth. He will still be listed as born in Canada. Same for myself, should I give up my Malaysian citizenship and take up citizenship in Iraq, my place and country of birth will still have to be Malaysia. My parents are chinese/malay and thats a fact. No one is talking race here. I am a Malaysian.

In sports buying talent also covers bringing in expertise like coaches i.e. BAM hiring Rexy etc. So, there is actually nothing wrong with that in my opinion. It helps develop sports.

As for the RM1 million carrot, a carrot will just be a carrot, whether there are gonna be any takers, in my opinion I doubt so cos' our shuttlers are not gold medal potentials in Beijing.

[Pemuda]

The reason why certain country (I know one country) "scounts" or "buys" baddie player is because they wanna achieve as what Chelsea has ;) ie, "buying" immediate success while hoping to raise the level of standard. In terms of baddie, "that" country has failed miserably (to raise the standard) and it has backfired by the local media (as far as the funds are concerned) :cool:

You can hire the best coach in the world but it's PLAYERS who go into the baddie court to fight. Never take away credits from coaches, but try to put them in Germany or France, let's see if they can achieve what YipPuiYin has achieved ;)

Hiring foreign coaches is to raise the level of the game, NOT to buy success!!! As much as I admire Rexy, I still hope Cheah/Yap to win the eluded OG Gold won by Rexy/Ricky.

Please tell us then which country is that. :confused:

Hiring the best coach out there helps because they impart knowledge, technical skills etc to the shuttlers who then put them to use when they take to the courts. Germany & France are great sporting nations, they are now developing badminton and given time they will make the breakthrough.

Bringing in foreign players will also raise the level of the game as the locals will get to spar with better quality opponents etc.

[jimbo]

Please tell us then which country is that. :confused:

Hiring the best coach out there helps because they impart knowledge, technical skills etc to the shuttlers who then put them to use when they take to the courts. Germany & France are great sporting nations, they are now developing badminton and given time they will make the breakthrough.

Bringing in foreign players will also raise the level of the game as the locals will get to spar with better quality opponents etc.

Haha... I wont tell U... haha... :p Looking at France and Germany, I have no doubts that YPY will be a good sparring partner but I doubt her teamates can make any breakthrough in SS ;)

[Pemuda]

Haha... I wont tell U... haha... :p Looking at France and Germany, I have no doubts that YPY will be a good sparring partner but I doubt her teamates can make any breakthrough in SS ;)

Well then difficult to have a decent discussion if one party is unable to put facts on the table. ;)

Like I said, Germany and France are both great sporting nations. Given time they will make a breakthrough.

[jimbo]

Well then difficult to have a decent discussion if one party is unable to put facts on the table. ;)

Like I said, Germany and France are both great sporting nations. Given time they will make a breakthrough.

Relak brudder... I'm also msian lah... Sorry, I cant name the country else I kena deported :eek::D

Yes, I'm 100% support the idea of improving the standard by hiring foreign coaches or players as sparring partner ONLY, but not to compete.

[Pemuda]

Relak brudder... I'm also msian lah... Sorry, I cant name the country else I kena deported :eek::D

Yes, I'm 100% support the idea of improving the standard by hiring foreign coaches or players as sparring partner ONLY, but not to compete.

Ah laaa ... Singapore is a fair country la. They wont deport you for pointing out.

Singapore without foreign talent wont be the Singapore of today la.

[jimbo]

Ah laaa ... Singapore is a fair country la. They wont deport you for pointing out.

Singapore without foreign talent wont be the Singapore of today la.

alamak... dun say it out lah... walao... later i kena deported then how? :p *ssgghhh* :p

[Pemuda]

alamak... dun say it out lah... walao... later i kena deported then how? :p *ssgghhh* :p

You are in Singapore la, not North Korea or Nigeria. They have law and order over there la.

And the Singaporeans love 'foreigners' like you over in Singapore ;)

[jimbo]

Just curious, is Nicole David (Squash player) a local bred? Too bad, squash is not included in OG08. Otherwise, she has a chance to win the GOLD + RM$1mil :eek::D

[Loh]

edit:
BTW, was Ronald Susilo "bought" by Singapore? or did his parents migrate there? since Singapore is also a melting pot of cultures and races like Malaysia.

RS came to Singapore to polish up his English and he enrolled in a one of Singapore's most popular secondary schools. So he was just an Indonesian teenager but because he is good at badminton, the SBA offered him a professional career when he completed his secondary school studies. He was groomed to become a better player, capturing the Japan Open during his prime and knocking out Lin Dan during the first round of the Olympics 4 years ago. RS is now a Singapore citizen.

So in that sense he was not 'bought' outright but benefitted for being developed into a top class badminton player from a teenager to an adult, and travelling the world over to compete in international badminton tournaments.

If I'm not mistaken, the top ranked Singapore women table tennis player, Li Jiawei, was scouted from China when she was also a teenager and groomed to become a highly ranked world class TT player. She is also a Singapore citizen now.

It is also true that of late Singapore tends to import more adult table tennis players from China to build a stronger team. Some of them have risen high in world ranking after about just a year of training in Singapore and they provide good sparring partners for the rest of the Singapore team. Our young local born trainees still have a long way to go before they can aspire to greater heights but the infrastructure is in place to help them improve.

As far as Singapore is concerned, we are happy that the "imported" players have helped us to achieve success and hopefully in time to come, their achievements will rub off to the local players. Then Singapore will have a more balanced team of foreign and local players. ;)

Foreign talents are not new to Singapore as many facets of the Singapore economy and daily living are supported by them and a good number of our pioneer leaders are foreigners in the first place. :)

[llpjlau]

Just curious, is Nicole David (Squash player) a local bred? Too bad, squash is not included in OG08. Otherwise, she has a chance to win the GOLD + RM$1mil :eek::D

i'm surprised squash is not an olympic sport, i never thought about that. i would support it to be introduced as one- except if it is brought in to replace badminton.

Nicol who was born in Penang is a Chindian from an ethnic Indian father and an ethnic Chinese mother. she is definitely home-grown.

[ctjcad]

i am not completely sure if Hargreaves still has his Canadian citizenship or not but if he does not, then he is not Canadian. same applies to you if you do not have Malaysian citizenship. and the fact that you have Malay/Chinese ancestry does not change whether you are Malaysian or not. who is talking about race?
...

Even if Hargreaves gave up his Canadian status, he cant change his place of birth. He will still be listed as born in Canada. Same for myself, should I give up my Malaysian citizenship and take up citizenship in Iraq, my place and country of birth will still have to be Malaysia. My parents are chinese/malay and thats a fact. No one is talking race here. I am a Malaysian.
...
Off topic: As far as i know, if someone was born in a different country, say M'sia, and s/he has become a citizen of a certain country, say S'pore, that person is automatically called a M'sian-S'porean (it's more of an act of naturalization). For example, here in the U.S., there are Chinese Americans because they are Americans of Chinese descent; if the children of those Chinese American are born in the U.S., then they are automatically called Americans.
So, if Pemuda were to move to Iraq and become an Iraqi citizen, and irregardless of the citizenship laws of both Iraq and M'sia, he is now officially called a Malaysian-Iraqi (how's that, Pemuda);). Just like myself, born in INA but now living and holding a U.S. passport, thus i call myself an INA-American (eventhough my ancestry is mostly Chinese); sometimes even going as far as simply calling myself an American.:cool:

...
As far as Singapore is concerned, we are happy that the "imported" players have helped us to achieve success and hopefully in time to come, their achievements will rub off to the local players. Then Singapore will have a more balanced team of foreign and local players. ;)

Foreign talents are not new to Singapore as many facets of the Singapore economy and daily living are supported by them and a good number of our pioneer leaders are foreigners in the first place. :)
..i believe this topic has been brought up before. And yes, i concur with the general view above that foreign talents brought in to help a certain aspect of a country's interest shouldn't be a bad thing. Of course, local, home-grown talents are preferred, but i don't think it should be a hindrance for those naturalized athletes to compete or "present" his or her talents for his or her naturalized country.:cool:

[singhzico]

It is very simple, the lad was born in Canada, thus he is a Canadian. Like myself, since I was born in Malaysia, I am a Malaysian, despite the fact that my parents are malay/chinese.

Why is it wrong to send out scouts to China and bring back talent and give them citizenships?? If that is wrong to you then for those professionals who migrated or were offered jobs & citizenships in Australia, Singapore, UK, US etc ... that should be wrong too.

As for your theory on Pedro Silva and his child Felipe, can you tell me how much is 'sufficient amount of time'?? 20 years? 30 years?? Why such restrictions for sportsmen/women?? Why not apply your theory across the board i.e. say you are born in Malaysia, but when you move over to Australia, you are not allowed to work there or be given PR or citizenship for a 'sufficient amount of time' ;)
Permuda pls be muda U were right he was born in canada but he chose not 2 be a canadian doesn't he have a right 2 choose where he call his citizenship regardless where he was born.:):):):):):)

[koo_fan]

i'm surprised squash is not an olympic sport, i never thought about that. i would support it to be introduced as one- except if it is brought in to replace badminton.

Nicol who was born in Penang is a Chindian from an ethnic Indian father and an ethnic Chinese mother. she is definitely home-grown.
I think the reason squasy has not been an olympic event is it isnt original.

Just a sport created by tennis players.It takes time for the world community to accept squasy.
And included it in olympic.

[Dato A]

I think the reason squasy has not been an olympic event is it isnt original.

Just a sport created by tennis players.It takes time for the world community to accept squasy.
And included it in olympic.

I wonder how much the gov paid to NICOL as world No.1?

As to compare to badminton player, i dont think she will be rewarded as much as those badminton taiko. :D:D

[Dato A]

And now LCW must be dreaming of the RM1.0M reward of being the champion of OG, after he wins the SO title.

[koo_fan]

And now LCW must be dreaming of the RM1.0M reward of being the champion of OG, after he wins the SO title.
ehmm..isnt this an attitude that we criticize about?
Lee chong wei say nothing,so,we stay silent la..

Give him space to get breathe.

[Dato A]

He is capable enuff to win that medal, and the rewards.

[singhzico]

i am not completely sure if Hargreaves still has his Canadian citizenship or not but if he does not, then he is not Canadian. same applies to you if you do not have Malaysian citizenship. and the fact that you have Malay/Chinese ancestry does not change whether you are Malaysian or not. who is talking about race?

different people see "buying" talent (ie in sports) differently. you obviously approve of it. i to a certain extent disagree with it. and thats that.
for Felipe, he migrated to Malaysia for the right reasons. i did state that his father Pedro decided to migrate there for better job opportunities. hence, Malaysia would not be "buying" talent for their badminton squad.

but all this is way off topic.

its true that the Malaysian system of doing things is rather queer at times. of course offering rm1,000,000 won't change things in the long run. i agree with you that there must be a huge overhaul of the whole system. start from the top, appoint proper administrators- not some Datuk who can barely do anything.
desperate times call for desperate measures. if they want to offer that amount of money to a Gold-medallist, then fine. its still a solution, but a short term one. some people play better with the promise of more incentives.
Malysian and canadian heritage is a huge difference compare 2 malysian heritage,Asian has a very strong identity in religion,food nd others.Cdns on the other hand have no identity that they can cling 2 other then where their parens come frm.

[chibe_K]

Hope it helps to motivate the players otherwise one-million reward is no different from ten-million reward if noone is able to claim it. It would be better if players from other nations are allowed to represent Mal and eligible to win it as well.

[Dato A]

Hope it helps to motivate the players otherwise one-million reward is no different from ten-million reward if noone is able to claim it. It would be better if players from other nations are allowed to represent Mal and eligible to win it as well.

mas is not charity association.:D

[Loh]

mas is not charity association.:D
[/COLOR][/SIZE]

It may turn out to be true in future.

Now MAS gives "charity" to foreign coaches. Even some local coaches not hired. ;)

[jimbo]

It may turn out to be true in future.

Now MAS gives "charity" to foreign coaches. Even some local coaches not hired. ;)

LiMao has produced LCW... Rexy did the same for KKK/TBH... whereby SG FT(Foreign Talent)... errr... Su-si-lor and XinAiYing??? not forgetting those SG's INA FTs (men doubles and mixed doubles) and CHN FTs (women doubles)... err... where r they now? hibernate with Osama? :rolleyes:

[Loh]

LiMao has produced LCW... Rexy did the same for KKK/TBH... whereby SG FT(Foreign Talent)... errr... Su-si-lor and XinAiYing??? not forgetting those SG's INA FTs (men doubles and mixed doubles) and CHN FTs (women doubles)... err... where r they now? hibernate with Osama? :rolleyes:

I think you are not doing justice nor giving credit to the Malaysian coaches at all. ;)

Who coached LCW and KKK/TBH when they were schoolboys and juniors? Such coaches must have a more difficult task to mould them into champions and those were relatively long years! :rolleyes:

Even when LCW & Co first got into the national team, they were also coached by the Malaysian coaches from time to time. Eg, LCW was first coached by Misbun. Then Li Mao entered the scene and got LCW easy, but on the same score, LM disappeared from the scene easy for a more lucrative job with the Korean BA again. He left poor LCW in the lurch, licking his wounds and drying his tears before being passed on to Wong Tat Meng. This did not last long before LCW requested to be home again with Misbun.

Li Mao and Rexy did not "produce" LCW and KKK/TBH respectively. They had the easier part to "polish them up" further. And now that LCW is back in Misbun's fold that he became more settled and was able to focus more on the job at hand. It might as well be since Misbun probably knows LCW better than any other coach. And LCW could make Malaysia proud if he wins an Olympic medal.

Of KKK/TBH, lesser said the better for their inconsistent performance and shocking defeats to hitherto unknown opponents after their 'honeymoon' string of early victories.

Now regarding your persistent "negative" ranting on Singapore's Foreign Talent policy and trying to compare them with Malaysia's situation, which you indirectly abhor and now try to justify through Singapore's lack of success, only time can tell. Singapore is different from Malaysia in many respects particularly in the building up of a talent pool for badminton. Singapore has a more recent history and priorities were different until now when economic success has enabled her to go the extra mile for sports. Unfortunately to produce a champion takes a very, very long time.

Thus far as I can see it, Singapore prefers to get them (the foreign imports) young in their teens and develop those who show potential. There are "older" imports such as Jiang Yanmei, Li Yujia, and more recently imports from Indonesia. They also help as sparring partners and to win lesser tournaments if possible.

We are more successful from the women's department if the recent Aviva Open Singapore 2008 is of any guide. And these are the girls we developed when they came during their young teens of around 12 to 14 years old.

The most successful would probably be Xing Aiying who:

R1 Beat Judith Meulendijks 21-14, 23-21
R2 Beat Tracy Hallam (7) (Melbourne Commonwealth Games champion) 21-14, 21-12
QF Lost to Tine Rasmussen (2), the eventual SO champion. 13-21, 11-21

Fu Mingtian who:

QR Beat Chiang Pei Hsin 21-8, 22-20
QR Beat Camilla Sorensen (2) 16-21, 21-19, 21-16
R1 Lost to Hwang Hye Youn 10-21, 11-21

Gu Juan who:

QR Beat Lydia Cheah 21-13, 21-15
R1 Beat Yip Pui Yin (6) 21-11, 21-12
R2 Lost to Saina Nehwal 19-21, 17-21

Even Li Li, who once captured the Commonwealth Games singles crown came when she was around 13.

Of the others during the recent Singapore Open, the following won their qualifying rounds but most lost in Round One, with many matches lasting 3 games:

XD Chayut Triyachart/Shinta Mulia Sari:

beat Chen Hung Ling/Chow Chia Chi 24-22, 13-21, 21-19
lost to Anthony Clark/Donna Kellogg 13-21, 14-21

XD Danny Bawa Chrisnanta/Vanessa Neo lost to Nova/Liliyana 21-19, 5-21, 14-21

XD Riky Widianto/Yao Lei lost to Rijal/Polii 22-20, 17-21, 9-21

XD Zhao Jiang Terry Yeo /Frances Liu Fan lost to Thien How Hoon/ Amelia Alicia Anselly 21-14 16-21 21-13

WD Shinta Mulia Sari/Yao Lei lost to Rani/Endang 21-13, 13-21, 20-22

WD Frances Liu Fan /Vanessa Neo Yu Yan lost to Fong Chew Yen /Mooi Hing Yau 13-21, 21-13, 21-13


Vanessa Neo and Terry Yeo are locals and those highlighted are imports when they were early teens.

Looks like our doubles pairs are making improvement under Eng Hian! :) And though it may take more time, I think our FT policy is beginning to bear fruits.

And the interest in badminton must have grown as the reported 8,200 fans who attended during the SO finals, despite the withdrawal of so many highly ranked players, bear testimony.

[jimbo]

haha... uncle Loh cannot tahan with my "attack" on his beloved country... haha... so he came up with 3-pages of essay :eek: as much as i know him, he is a very positive man and a coffee lover... good to stay positive and stay tight during the storms.

if u talk to the locals players (ex-nationals, coaches), it's not difficult to understand why my "ranting" is valid. Being positive is one thing, getting the result is another ;) i suggest u talk to the locals players first... :)

[Loh]

haha... uncle Loh cannot tahan with my "attack" on his beloved country... haha... so he came up with 3-pages of essay :eek: as much as i know him, he is a very positive man and a coffee lover... good to stay positive and stay tight during the storms.

if u talk to the locals players (ex-nationals, coaches), it's not difficult to understand why my "ranting" is valid. Being positive is one thing, getting the result is another ;) i suggest u talk to the locals players first... :)

Aiyah, don't waste time lah. Produce the results first. Then talk. Don't be jealous if others are better. They have the talent and they work hard to become better. Locals should be grateful that they have better players to help them improve their game. Otherwise they can't even get past the qualifiers in big tournaments. Sub-standard. That's the kind of people you're talking to. Ask them to work harder, improve themselves, then talk. :rolleyes:

[Loh]

haha... uncle Loh cannot tahan with my "attack" on his beloved country... haha... so he came up with 3-pages of essay :eek: as much as i know him, he is a very positive man and a coffee lover... good to stay positive and stay tight during the storms.

if u talk to the locals players (ex-nationals, coaches), it's not difficult to understand why my "ranting" is valid. Being positive is one thing, getting the result is another ;) i suggest u talk to the locals players first... :)

You tell me I'm wrong in my "3-page" essay, especially on the Malaysian coaches. :mad:

[Dato A]

Are all singapore players that are highlighted by Loh is originated born from sg? Or it just like Ronald Susilo?

[jimbo]

Aiyah, don't waste time lah. Produce the results first. Then talk. Don't be jealous if others are better. They have the talent and they work hard to become better. Locals should be grateful that they have better players to help them improve their game. Otherwise they can't even get past the qualifiers in big tournaments. Sub-standard. That's the kind of people you're talking to. Ask them to work harder, improve themselves, then talk. :rolleyes:

OK, no prob uncle Loh. As u know, I'm quite closed with "those" players/coaches... haha... i'll convey ur messages to them... :eek::D But difficult leh... coz they still beat me in the court :crying: so my words got no credibility oredi :(

[jimbo]

Are all singapore players that are highlighted by Loh is originated born from sg? Or it just like Ronald Susilo?

Dato... try to pronounce their names... if they sound like Msian or Singaporeans, then yes, they are local breed :rolleyes: Pardon me, I cant pronounce many of their names... haha... :D

[koo_fan]

Are all singapore players that are highlighted by Loh is originated born from sg? Or it just like Ronald Susilo?
Singapore is improving.No matter they are originally kota singa or not.
The system is ok.

I believe they'll let those foreigners go when they just have the tempo.
As for me,ill just wait and see.

[SibugiChai]

Singapore is improving.No matter they are originally kota singa or not.
The system is ok.

I believe they'll let those foreigners go when they just have the tempo.
As for me,ill just wait and see.

To promote badminton to a higher level, they ultimately have to produce their own local talents. Foreign talents will always be foreign and cant really be appriciated by the locals.

Just like our runner from china, whom have won us numerous medals but doesnt get much attention.

in this situation, country and players get what they needed. is kind of simbiosis. No harm...

Singapore get better representaive and rise their standard abit.

Players got better paid as well as oppurtunity to play :) :D

[Dato A]

Dato... try to pronounce their names... if they sound like Msian or Singaporeans, then yes, they are local breed :rolleyes: Pardon me, I cant pronounce many of their names... haha... :D

Then there are nothing to be proud of Singapore's badminton. If the players is not originated born in singapore and not a singaporean.

[jimbo]

Then there are nothing to be proud of Singapore's badminton. If the players is not originated born in singapore and not a singaporean.

harrrlllooo dato... u wanna uncle Loh to hammer u huh? :D:eek:

[jimbo]

To promote badminton to a higher level, they ultimately have to produce their own local talents. Foreign talents will always be foreign and cant really be appriciated by the locals.

Just like our runner from china, whom have won us numerous medals but doesnt get much attention.

in this situation, country and players get what they needed. is kind of simbiosis. No harm...

Singapore get better representaive and rise their standard abit.

Players got better paid as well as oppurtunity to play :) :D

In Msia, runners/atheletics do not get much attention coz Msia's fav sports are badminton, soccer and sepak Takraw. Badminton is definitely the No.1 sport in Msia... just look at 1992 Thomas Cup... :eek:

[Loh]

Then there are nothing to be proud of Singapore's badminton. If the players is not originated born in singapore and not a singaporean.

That is your own myopic opinion, I'm afraid. :D

If your forefathers were not originally from Malaysia, so despite the fact that you are born in Malaysia, what authority do you have to despise others? Imagine if your forefathers were treated the same way as you now treat foreign talents, what would they feel if they had brought glory to Malaya then? :rolleyes:

If the foreign talents can bring us the results, we will be proud of them and reward them accordingly. Imagine if they can win us an Olympic medal and put Singapore on the world sports map! Badminton will not be able to do this at present but our table-tennis team, recently ranked second in the world, will be potential candidates.

Not to worry where they came from. Especially when they make that important decision to become citizens, just like so many of our forefathers from China, India, Indonesia and Malaya did.

It is quite common knowledge that many of our early leaders who contributed to developing modern Singapore were born elsewhere. Even now we have political leaders who came from other countries. They help Singapore to improve, grow and compete with the rest of the world. So should we not recognize their efforts and reject them because they were not born locally?

Maybe you can afford to do that in your country but not for tiny Singapore. And to say that foreign coaches are different from foreign players just shows how discriminatory one's thinking is. They are both contributing to the same cause, whether as coach or player! Similarly, foreign talents in the sports arena who can make an impact for Singapore will be appreciated and recognized.

You need to think about it and not to denigrate foreign talents who can contribute to making things better than before. Just think of the USA and the positive impact people from all over the world made towards their society and economy. White, black, brown, whatever the colour, they all converge there to make America the foremost democratic country in the world, a world leader in so many fields!

Can you therefore say that a black, brown or white American born elsewhere who brought glory and pride to USA, like in the Olympics, should not be acknowledged?

But that is your and jimbo's double standard! :D

[jimbo]

haha... Dato... told u so... uncle Loh will whack U with "long-winded" analogy and thesis... may be he is preparing for his PHD? (Permanent Head Damage)? haha... :D (just kidding uncle Loh)... buy u coffee + satays next time :p

[Loh]

haha... Dato... told u so... uncle Loh will whack U with "long-winded" analogy and thesis... may be he is preparing for his PHD? (Permanent Head Damage)? haha... :D (just kidding uncle Loh)... buy u coffee + satays next time :p

Don't talk nonsense which reveals your own PHD.
If you have better arguments lay them out, otherwise don't waste anymore time on this subject. :rolleyes:

[jimbo]

Don't talk nonsense which reveals your own PHD.
If you have better arguments lay them out, otherwise don't waste anymore time on this subject. :rolleyes:

Errr.... Kendrick Lee boleh.... Derek Wong boleh... Aston boleh... aaron boleh... err... who else? ;)

[george@chongwei]

Errr.... Kendrick Lee boleh.... Derek Wong boleh... Aston boleh... aaron boleh... err... who else? ;)
uncle loh boleh!:p:)

[Dato A]

harrrlllooo dato... u wanna uncle Loh to hammer u huh? :D:eek:

Kena hammer already:D:D:D

[Dato A]

That is your own myopic opinion, I'm afraid. :D

If your forefathers were not originally from Malaysia, so despite the fact that you are born in Malaysia, what authority do you have to despise others? Imagine if your forefathers were treated the same way as you now treat foreign talents, what would they feel if they had brought glory to Malaya then? :rolleyes:

If the foreign talents can bring us the results, we will be proud of them and reward them accordingly. Imagine if they can win us an Olympic medal and put Singapore on the world sports map! Badminton will not be able to do this at present but our table-tennis team, recently ranked second in the world, will be potential candidates.

Not to worry where they came from. Especially when they make that important decision to become citizens, just like so many of our forefathers from China, India, Indonesia and Malaya did.

It is quite common knowledge that many of our early leaders who contributed to developing modern Singapore were born elsewhere. Even now we have political leaders who came from other countries. They help Singapore to improve, grow and compete with the rest of the world. So should we not recognize their efforts and reject them because they were not born locally?

Maybe you can afford to do that in your country but not for tiny Singapore. And to say that foreign coaches are different from foreign players just shows how discriminatory one's thinking is. They are both contributing to the same cause, whether as coach or player! Similarly, foreign talents in the sports arena who can make an impact for Singapore will be appreciated and recognized.

You need to think about it and not to denigrate foreign talents who can contribute to making things better than before. Just think of the USA and the positive impact people from all over the world made towards their society and economy. White, black, brown, whatever the colour, they all converge there to make America the foremost democratic country in the world, a world leader in so many fields!

Can you therefore say that a black, brown or white American born elsewhere who brought glory and pride to USA, like in the Olympics, should not be acknowledged?

But that is your and jimbo's double standard! :D

I am sure this is my own opinion, and not representing Jimbo, anyone or my beloved country, malaysia.

When we talking abt representing our own country, it's means he/she is originated born in that country. If you tell me you are Singaporean, i will assume that u r born in Singapore and not from Africa.:D

If Ronald Susilo win that gold medal in Beijing, Singapore flag will sure be raise and the Singapore National Anthem will be play in the stadium.As a Singaporean, you will for sure feeling proud of it. (For more glory to Singapore, you can advice SBA to 'purchase' LD and XXF also:D:D)But for me, it is meaningless coz RS is not originated born in Singapore.

You raise the issue of forefather and Ancestor story. LCW's grandfather maybe born in CHN, and LCW'S father also. But LCW is not born in CHN. HE, i dont know where he is made, but for sure he is born in Malaysia.

If our own country have the talented and capable players, we dont have to import players from other country and tagged them as ours.In badminton sports, i am sure MALAYSIA wont do that.

Again, this is only my myopic opinion, according to Uncle Loh.

[jimbo]

Kena hammer already:D:D:D

haha... Dato... as I expected, uncle Loh sure hantam u kuat kuat... I oso kena jiat lat... :p

anyway, being a player myself, i've spoken to many local players/coaches on this issues... and NONE of them is proud... these ppl are not ordinary fans but play in local tourneys, coaches, national player, etc... they all condemn the FT policies. well, everyone is entitled to his/her own opinions :rolleyes:

I live in this tiny island for 7yrs and I fully understand why they are importing FTs... If I were them (top ministers with fat paycheques), I'd do the same for the sake of iron rice bowl and $$$... :cool:

At the press time, FT susilo and FT XinAiYing marched into QF while the local breed Kendrick lost to our "uncle" LeeTS :eek::rolleyes:

Msia Boleh....!!!:D:p

[Loh]

I am sure this is my own opinion, and not representing Jimbo, anyone or my beloved country, malaysia.

When we talking abt representing our own country, it's means he/she is originated born in that country. If you tell me you are Singaporean, i will assume that u r born in Singapore and not from Africa.:D

If Ronald Susilo win that gold medal in Beijing, Singapore flag will sure be raise and the Singapore National Anthem will be play in the stadium.As a Singaporean, you will for sure feeling proud of it. (For more glory to Singapore, you can advice SBA to 'purchase' LD and XXF also:D:D)But for me, it is meaningless coz RS is not originated born in Singapore.


You raise the issue of forefather and Ancestor story. LCW's grandfather maybe born in CHN, and LCW'S father also. But LCW is not born in CHN. HE, i dont know where he is made, but for sure he is born in Malaysia.

If our own country have the talented and capable players, we dont have to import players from other country and tagged them as ours.In badminton sports, i am sure MALAYSIA wont do that.

Again, this is only my myopic opinion, according to Uncle Loh.

First and foremost, you don't represent Malaysia, therefore don't be too "sure Malaysia wont do that". Yes it is your own myopic opinion only.

And Malaysia, as someone has said, has imported an athlete to represent the country, and there may be others in other sports. So your argument that it is meaningless if that athlete is not local born is your own opinion only and not Malaysia's. If you think you don't need others to help Malaysian sports and badminton, why import Li Mao, Yang Yang, Morten Frost, Rexy and others when you already have local coaches.

Oh yes, you'll say they are different because they are not players. But they help to make your players successful and to gain glory for your country. Without them your players may not be able to do their best. That's why I said that is double standard. You choose only that which favours you but discriminates against others and try to make them look bad. Why don't you tell it to the US and other Western powers who employ foreign talents?

Yes because Singapore does not have enough talented and capable players at present, we need to start somewhere and our officials felt foreign talent is the way to go as we had done so successfully in other sectors.

I mentioned forefathers as foreign talents to emphasize the fact that someone has to start somewhere. LCW would not be where he is if not for his forefathers who came from China. If his forefathers had not emigrated to Malaysia (then Malaya), LCW would not be born there!

And if someone says he is Singaporean, it does not necessarily mean he/she is born there. It means he/she is a citizen of Singapore, even though not Singapore born.

With such a mentality as yours, your advice to our SBA on the China players is pure nonsense!

[george@chongwei]

wow, uncle loh strikes again.>!!!!!!!!!
:p:p:D
haha...juz joking.

[Dato A]

First and foremost, you don't represent Malaysia, therefore don't be too "sure Malaysia wont do that". Yes it is your own myopic opinion only.

And Malaysia, as someone has said, has imported an athlete to represent the country, and there may be others in other sports. So your argument that it is meaningless if that athlete is not local born is your own opinion only and not Malaysia's. If you think you don't need others to help Malaysian sports and badminton, why import Li Mao, Yang Yang, Morten Frost, Rexy and others when you already have local coaches.

Oh yes, you'll say they are different because they are not players. But they help to make your players successful and to gain glory for your country. Without them your players may not be able to do their best. That's why I said that is double standard. You choose only that which favours you but discriminates against others and try to make them look bad. Why don't you tell it to the US and other Western powers who employ foreign talents?

Yes because Singapore does not have enough talented and capable players at present, we need to start somewhere and our officials felt foreign talent is the way to go as we had done so successfully in other sectors.

I mentioned forefathers as foreign talents to emphasize the fact that someone has to start somewhere. LCW would not be where he is if not for his forefathers who came from China. If his forefathers had not emigrated to Malaysia (then Malaya), LCW would not be born there!

And if someone says he is Singaporean, it does not necessarily mean he/she is born there. It means he/she is a citizen of Singapore, even though not Singapore born.

With such a mentality as yours, your advice to our SBA on the China players is pure nonsense!

First of all, you yourself are also not representing all Singaporeans, thus yours word - ''we will be proud if blah blah blah is only your own opinion.

You seems that do not understand what is my argument abt what you hv raised here.

Yes, we employed foreign coaches - Yang Yang, Han Jian, MF, Rexy, Limao etc. But none of them are representing mas and play in the court.You dont see Rexy Manaiky wearing mas jersey representing mas and play against Ronald Susilo, who born in Indonesia, but representing Singapore. They are only coaching the player. Coach may be important but in the end, the capabilities of the players itself will determine whether he will be in the podium or fail miserably. Take LCW and HH as example.

Malaysia is employed foreign coach, whereas Singapore is 'buying' players. Any differences between these two?

You admit that Singapore player is not talented and capable enough to compete in the high level of badminton sports.Thats will explain to others that why Singapore rely on other country players to bring them glory.Thus, my advice on buying LD and XXF is not nonsense, as Singapore is already practise on the 'BUYING PLAYERS FOR THE GLORY' concept.

And again, u raise the issue of forefather. Ask u one question, who is Singapore's forefather?

[jimbo]

Yes, we employed foreign coaches - Yang Yang, Han Jian, MF, Rexy, Limao etc. But none of them are representing mas and play in the court.You dont see Rexy Manaiky wearing mas jersey representing mas and play against Ronald Susilo, who born in Indonesia, but representing Singapore. They are only coaching the player. Coach may be important but in the end, the capabilities of the players itself will determine whether he will be in the podium or fail miserably. Take LCW and HH as example.

Malaysia is employed foreign coach, whereas Singapore is 'buying' players. Any differences between these two?

These are TWO VALID points that I'd raised on numerous occassions but someone doesnt seem to understand. It seems like globalization rules over patriotism ;) Dont get me wrong, I have full respects for FTs but never in my mind that I ever feel proud (only applicable for those FTs wearing Msia jerseys). If I'm not wrong, Taufik almost "bought/recruited" by SBA few yrs ago :eek: Honestly speaking, as much as I idolise Taufik, i DO NOT wish him wearing Msia jersey and play for us!!! But I dun mind him coaching our juniors or seniors. :p

You can have the best coach in the world (like Mourihno) but if the players cant perform (like Hafiz), it will bring him to nowhere. Whereby if you have the best player (lets just say Taufik during his peak), I'm sure he will win OG GOLD even he hired "jimbo" as his coach... :eek::D (just kidding...)

If U guys reading the local forums (AsiaOne or CNA), it's a laughing stocks to BUY FTs wearing national jerseys. Particularly when Uzbekistan thrashed "one country" 7-2 :p:D

http://forums.asiaone.com/showthread.php?t=11466 (have a good laugh here)

[Oldhand]

Let us discuss issues that members raise.
Let us NOT discuss members that raise issues :)

[Dato A]

Let us discuss issues that members raise.
Let us NOT discuss members that raise issues :)

I cant get what u mean.Please make it clearer.Thank you.

[johnps]

I cant get what u mean.Please make it clearer.Thank you.

I think what Oldhand means is to discuss the issue tactfully and intelligently and not to adopt the "Mahathir-style" of sarcasm to take potshots at Loh, SBA and Singapore.

[Dato A]

I think what Oldhand means is to discuss the issue tactfully and intelligently and not to adopt the "Mahathir-style" of sarcasm to take potshots at Loh, SBA and Singapore.

I understand.

But make sure Loh is also understand what olhand said.

[Oldhand]

Let us discuss issues that members raise.
Let us NOT discuss members that raise issues :)


I cant get what u mean.Please make it clearer.Thank you.
Here's an issue and also a few members:

Member A: Leonardo da Vinci was an idiot. He forgot something when he painted the 'Mona Lisa'.
Member B: What was that?
Member A: Eyebrows. The 'Mona Lisa' doesn't have eyebrows.
Member C: You are the one who's an idiot. Your family line began from a hunchbacked orangutan.
Member B: Hey, that's not nice.
Member C: You too are an idiot. Your forefather was a swamp monster.
Member A: Your grandmother was a pickled olive.
Member D: No one here is an idiot. The 'Mona Lisa' doesn't have eyebrows because it was fashionable in da Vinci's time to shave them off altogether.

This should help explain the difference between:
(a) discussing issues raised by members, and
(b) discussing members that raise issues.

Obviously, (a) is more useful :p

[Oldhand]

I think what Oldhand means is to discuss the issue tactfully and intelligently and not to adopt the "Mahathir-style" of sarcasm to take potshots at Loh, SBA and Singapore.

No, this is not what I meant at all.
What I meant is illustrated in post # 204.

[eaglehelang]

And errrr.... I think the original thread was abt RM1 mil for OG Gold for Msia player, not Spore badminton & imported players. I beleive there's another thread on that....

Abt the RM1 mil, it has been quiet ever since the new Sports Minister took over. He's not very big on announcing rewards & stuff like that it seems. Maybe he "wait & see" what Msia althetes can win.
And we just have another 2.5 months or so to wait & watch......

[Cheung]

And errrr.... I think the original thread was abt RM1 mil for OG Gold for Msia player, not Spore badminton & imported players. I beleive there's another thread on that....

Exactly. We've been through this issue before. Smaller countries with smaller populations have to think of novel ways to succeed and prosper. Such is the competitive nature of the world.

Let's get back to the 1million RM issue. Is it a promise? What if a M'sian really did win...? Will it bankrupt the sports ministry?

[jimbo]

Let's get back to the 1million RM issue. Is it a promise? What if a M'sian really did win...? Will it bankrupt the sports ministry?

In terms of monetary rewards (RM$1mil), I dont think it's a big amount (in govt's context). If I'm not wrong, our 1992 TC team was awarded RM$1mil (for whole team) + sports car + lands. Not sure about the exact amount but I think it was quite a big sum for each player.

Just think about the endorsements after winning the OG GOLD :eek:

[Dato A]

Exactly. We've been through this issue before. Smaller countries with smaller populations have to think of novel ways to succeed and prosper. Such is the competitive nature of the world.

Let's get back to the 1million RM issue. Is it a promise? What if a M'sian really did win...? Will it bankrupt the sports ministry?

RM1.0 Million for mas is sup sup sui...:D:D

[chibe_K]

mas is not charity association.:D
[/color][/size]

You hit the point, thats why MAS is not Singapore. How could someone associate that with charity. I am not from Singapore but what the country has done deserves respect and sets a good example for other countries to follow.

[Cheung]

RM1.0 Million for mas is sup sup sui...:D:D

Really? Donate to me then:D Oh, sorry, no charity.

[eaglehelang]

RM1.0 Million for mas is sup sup sui...:D:D

The powers that be wouldnt say that . And dont be too sure it'll be RM1 mil, trend is going that way...:D, unless of course some billionaire decides to give RM 2 mil.
The guys/gals(there's one sport that can win gold, too bad this OG only exihibition sport, not "official") have to win it 1st of course

[Dato A]

Really? Donate to me then:D Oh, sorry, no charity.

Come and get it in malaysia if you are talented as LCW:D:D

[Dato A]

I wonder UNCLE LOH is angry with me oledi.....

[Pemuda]

Let's get back to the 1million RM issue. Is it a promise? What if a M'sian really did win...? Will it bankrupt the sports ministry?

Is it a promise?? Well, our govt made loads of promises. ;)

What if a Msian really did win?? We will have weeks and weeks of celebrations with all sorts of politicians and their entourage joining in.

Will it bankrupt the sports ministry? If we can throw away RM10m plus for some M&R activities here http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=21506, what is RM1.0m??

[george@chongwei]

Let's get back to the 1million RM issue. Is it a promise? What if a M'sian really did win...? Will it bankrupt the sports ministry?

Is it a promise?? Well, our govt made loads of promises. ;)

What if a Msian really did win?? We will have weeks and weeks of celebrations with all sorts of politicians and their entourage joining in.

Will it bankrupt the sports ministry? If we can throw away RM10m plus for some M&R activities here http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=21506, what is RM1.0m??
juz like our mr yoyo..when he wins the AE03, always RTM 1 and 2 keep putting advertisement of his wins over chen hong and many things more:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[koo_fan]

[quote=Pemuda;908779]
juz like our mr yoyo..when he wins the AE03, always RTM 1 and 2 keep putting advertisement of his wins over chen hong and many things more:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
And give him celebrity status.Same goes for kkk/tbh.
The thing is,we are lack of stars.so when one came,we adores him/her like they came from heaven.

[Dato A]

[quote=Pemuda;908779]
juz like our mr yoyo..when he wins the AE03, always RTM 1 and 2 keep putting advertisement of his wins over chen hong and many things more:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Now leh? no more ah? I didnt and will not watch RTM 1 and 2 channel :D:D

[tehsham]

[quote=george@chongwei;908822]
The thing is,we are lack of stars.so when one came,we adores him/her like they came from heaven.
Yeah but the players themselves must learn to control...let us look at Nicol David, after winning the British Open and World Cup she come tumbling down but look at her now...bounce back to the top of the world...most important word the players themselves must learn to sacrifice to stay at the top of the world

[koo_fan]

Exactly. We've been through this issue before. Smaller countries with smaller populations have to think of novel ways to succeed and prosper. Such is the competitive nature of the world.

Let's get back to the 1million RM issue. Is it a promise? What if a M'sian really did win...? Will it bankrupt the sports ministry?
I personally havent heard any official statement from Bam.
But,i think a gold medal is more precious than rm1 mil.It is priceless for malaysia.

but,considering malysia's domestic financial situation,maybe it is a good thing to reconsider.It'll just blow malaysians to protest.Enough is enough.

[george@chongwei]

[quote=george@chongwei;908822]

Now leh? no more ah? I didnt and will not watch RTM 1 and 2 channel :D:D
now ar???
kena bungkus untill so teruk already still want to appear on tv???:D:D:p:p:mad::rolleyes:

[koo_fan]

[quote=koo_fan;909053]
Yeah but the players themselves must learn to control...let us look at Nicol David, after winning the British Open and World Cup she come tumbling down but look at her now...bounce back to the top of the world...most important word the players themselves must learn to sacrifice to stay at the top of the world
zakry/fairuz and nicol are slightly different.
U know,malaysians dont really excited when nicol won world championship.But,when we just won indonesia open.Its like winning olympic.The pressure is different.
i give my credit to nicol for what she had achieved so far.And hope lot of our people to at least be like her.

Badminton players have to learn how to handle the expectations we gave.
They just have to.

[tehsham]

I like the attitude of Nicol who can bounce back when disaster struck during the early 2006 and end of 2007, but she bounce back everytime.....I hope the other sportmen or women can follow her or LCW attitude, esp HH and KKK/TBH, they need to realised their superiority is now past tense (maybe it is already tooo late for HH) they need new improvement

[koo_fan]

[quote=Dato Asbullah;909059]
now ar???
kena bungkus untill so teruk already still want to appear on tv???:D:D:p:p:mad::rolleyes:
Dato have to appear on tv for sure.who'll give us this
"oohhh.Pukulan chantek dri Lindan..."

As for dato's 'i didnt and will never watch rtm" -will u guys believe that?

[koo_fan]

I like the attitude of Nicol who can bounce back when disaster struck during the early 2006 and end of 2007, but she bounce back everytime.....I hope the other sportmen or women can follow her or LCW attitude, esp HH and KKK/TBH, they need to realised their superiority is now past tense (maybe it is already tooo late for HH) they need new improvement
My kkk is still alive.Do not compare him with hafiz.

[Pemuda]

My kkk is still alive.Do not compare him with hafiz.

Your KKK is worst than HH. At least HH turn up for training.

[jimbo]

My kkk is still alive.Do not compare him with hafiz.

KKK was reported as a party boy, and I guess he has all the valid reasons to skip trainings :rolleyes: Rexy was furious but powerless :cool:

[Dato A]

KKK was reported as a party boy, and I guess he has all the valid reasons to skip trainings :rolleyes: Rexy was furious but powerless :cool:

KKK you know him...

Just for him::D:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OLtKeblfnY&feature=related

[Dato A]

Your KKK is worst than HH. At least HH turn up for training.

Worst than The Hopeless?:D:D:D:D

[tehsham]

Worst than The Hopeless?:D:D:D:D
Very good question.....I thought KKK is on mc

[koo_fan]

KKK was reported as a party boy, and I guess he has all the valid reasons to skip trainings :rolleyes: Rexy was furious but powerless :cool:
C'mon now.Give me a break.
recent kkk is slightly different from the last few months kkk.
Tell me what u have heard about him lately?

[koo_fan]

Your KKK is worst than HH. At least HH turn up for training.
I dont want to spoil ur vacation with another disagreement.
so,yeah.U are absoutely rite brother!

[Dato A]

Your KKK is worst than HH. At least HH turn up for training.

Dont forget they used to be ALL ENGLAND CHAMPION.:D:D

[taufikk]

Well, in Malaysia, badminton is definitely more popular than squash..with that of course most Malaysians will treat the winners differently..squash in Malaysia is considered an upper class sport(however not good enough for olympics), slightly lower than golf..but badminton, everyone (old, youg, rich and poor) can enjoy playing and watching it.:D We can see that badminton is played in almost all schools in malaysia..that is why winning a SS tournament is just like the olympics..if malalysia wins a badminton gold medal in olympics, God knows what will happen...

zakry/fairuz and nicol are slightly different.

U know,malaysians dont really excited when nicol won world championship.But,when we just won indonesia open.Its like winning olympic.The pressure is different.
i give my credit to nicol for what she had achieved so far.And hope lot of our people to at least be like her.

Badminton players have to learn how to handle the expectations we gave.
They just have to.[/quote]

[taufikk]

[quote=tehsham;909060]
zakry/fairuz and nicol are slightly different.
U know,malaysians dont really excited when nicol won world championship.But,when we just won indonesia open.Its like winning olympic.The pressure is different.
i give my credit to nicol for what she had achieved so far.And hope lot of our people to at least be like her.

Badminton players have to learn how to handle the expectations we gave.
They just have to.

Well, badminton is definitely more popular than squash..that is why when we win the SS is like winning the Olympics..

[ashawaykuning]

New Straits Times

Sportcheck: Is RM160,000 for gold enough?
By K. M. Boopathy

04 January, 2008

A MILLION ringgit for Olympic gold? That could well be the reward for any athlete who strikes in Beijing as the Sports Ministry and National Sports Council (NSC) fine tune their plans for an all-out assault on the Olympics in August.

Currently, the NSC's incentive scheme states that RM160,000 is the Government's reward for an Olympic gold, RM80,000 for silver and RM40,000 for bronze.

The amount, needless to say, is "inadequate" considering just how much prize money some athletes win competing in Open tournaments in their respective sport.

Sports Minister Datuk Seri Azalina Othman Said admitted that the amount is being looked at.

"We have to sit down and discuss our strategies (for the Olympics) and increasing the incentive is one of the issues we will look at," said Azalina after witnessing Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi handing out cash incentives yesterday to athletes who won gold in the Korat Sea Games.

"The Prime Minister has spoken about winning Olympic gold. The cash incentive is not the only issue but I agree, we need to strategise to have maximum returns in Beijing."

Malaysia's Olympic incentive scheme pales in comparison with that of Singapore, which offers S$1 million (RM2.3 million) and South Korea (US$200,000 > RM662,000).

Korea also offers a monthly life pension of US$1,000. Malaysia also has a similar pension scheme though with RM3,000 for an Olympic gold medallist, RM1,500 for silver and RM1,000 for bronze.

While the pension scheme, introduced by the Cabinet Committee for Sports that is chaired by Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak, is a laudable move, the incentive scheme needs to be revised.

The badminton players, Malaysia's best bet for medals in Beijing, have the lucrative Super Series which offers a minimum US$200,000 total prize money per leg.

Men's doubles Koo Kien Keat-Tan Boon Heong won four Super Series titles, each worth US$14,400 and there is also the yet to-be-staged Grand final, which will have US$500,000 as the prize money of which the men's doubles champions will receive US$36,000.

It is also worth knowing the Super Series offers cash prizes from the first round onwards. Kien Keat-Boon Heong also won the Macao and Philippines Grand Prix Opens, which earned them another US$17,280.

NSC director general Datuk Zolkples Embong said an increase is likely but the amount is yet to be decided.

"We have been discussing the possibility of increasing the incentive but the amount has to be confirmed. But I believe that an increase looks likely as it is not an easy feat to win an Olympic gold," said Zolkples.

"Even RM1 million can be rewarded for Olympic gold but what is important is that the amount must be manageable so that we can provide our winners continuously."
:Da million?what a riddiculous....

[victory]

:Da million?what a riddiculous....


Why ridiculous? Could you please elaborate?

[X Ball]

It is not ridiculous. It is almost important that RM 1M is given - I do not think anyone except LCW can win this gold at the Beijing Olympics (at most the doubles too, if they play well). This will be a historical milestone for Malaysia and as such it is not ridiculous.

[Loh]

It is not ridiculous. It is almost important that RM 1M is given - I do not think anyone except LCW can win this gold at the Beijing Olympics (at most the doubles too, if they play well). This will be a historical milestone for Malaysia and as such it is not ridiculous.

And I think if LCW wins the Beijing Olympic gold medal, he deserves the RM1 million for all his years of hard work and sacrifices and for making Malaysia really proud! Nothing ridiculous as some may think. :)

I also hope KKK/TBH or the uncles can win the gold medal too! :cool:

[X Ball]

And I think if LCW wins the Beijing Olympic gold medal, he deserves the RM1 million for all his years of hard work and sacrifices and for making Malaysia really proud! Nothing ridiculous as some may think. :)

I also hope KKK/TBH or the uncles can win the gold medal too! :cool:

Top man Loh. After all, this is just SGD 416K approx. - cannot even buy a condo in Singapore. He has to win two golds to consider a condo.:D

[tehsham]

What is RM1 million or RM2 million if LCW n KKK/TBH win the gold ? This is MAS last chance for an olympic gold since badminton will not feature in London 2012

[PlayaFromMalaya]

What is RM1 million or RM2 million if LCW n KKK/TBH win the gold ? This is MAS last chance for an olympic gold since badminton will not feature in London 2012


oh great not another one.......

[Loh]

What is RM1 million or RM2 million if LCW n KKK/TBH win the gold ? This is MAS last chance for an olympic gold since badminton will not feature in London 2012

Don't you dare disappoint England and the rest of Great Britain! :D

[Loh]

Top man Loh. After all, this is just SGD 416K approx. - cannot even buy a condo in Singapore. He has to win two golds to consider a condo.:D

But he could buy a prime property in KL, could he not? ;)

[tehsham]

Sorry guys I thought I had read it somewhere but could not recall where???

[Loh]

Sorry guys I thought I had read it somewhere but could not recall where???

Of course from our BC forum, or originated from one of our BC members. It was intended as an April Fool joke! :D:D:D

[tehsham]

Of course from our BC forum, or originated from one of our BC members. It was intended as an April Fool joke! :D:D:D
Thank u very much..my sincere apologies to all

[Oldhand]

Thank u very much..my sincere apologies to all

An apology is unwarranted, sir.
A laugh is penance enough :D

[eaglehelang]

An apology is unwarranted, sir.
A laugh is penance enough :D

"uncle" Oldhand, your handiwork again :D. You had them fooled with your April fool's joke.

[eaglehelang]

Oh yeah, since nobody has posted the latest update :
Berita Harian, 25 June 2008
http://www.bharian.com.my/Current_News/BH/Wednesday/Sukan/20080625083017/Article/print_html (http://www.bharian.com.my/Current_News/BH/Wednesday/Sukan/20080625083017/Article/print_html)

It has been decided by Msia's cabinet that the reward for winning OG gold shall be MYR1 million, coming from government & private sources.

Kenaikan Imbuhan Olimpik


Individual

GOLD: RM1 million ( Old : RM160,000)
Silver: RM300,000 (RM80,000)
Bronze: RM100,000 (RM40,000)

Pension
Gold : RM 5,000 (Old : RM3,000)
Silver : RM 3,000 (RM1,500)
Bronze : RM 2,000 (RM1,000)
Pension is for whole life, till the winner breaths his last.

There's some inconsistent info on the when the pension starts, as eagle remember earlier report said after the player retires from he/her sport. Berita Harian said starts from right after winning the medal. After retiring from the sport makes more sense.

For Cheah SK, Yap KH, Razif & Jailani Sidek, Rashid Sidek, they will get this increased pension from July 2008 onwards.

The list states individual cos there's a different breakdown for teams of more than 6 players, Msia dont have representatives in those sports this coming OG.
Also.... not sure if the amount for MD, WD, is shared by 2 players or for each of them.

On a side note : Para OG althetes(disabled) finally get recognition. They will get $$$ too if they win medals in the 2008 Para OG Games :
Gold : RM300,000
Silver : RM200,000
Bronze : RM100,000

Is there badminton in Para Olympics?