Hats off to Lee Hyun Il [Archive] - Badminton Central Discussion Forums

economet

01-27-2008, 09:36 AM

1. Lin Dan is in a rage because of a disputable line call which was made by another line judge than the "patriotic" line judge who was corrected three times by the umpire. The side line was affected this time in contrast to the previous obviously wrong line calls at the back court. The umpire didn't correct the decision because he certified the line judge for the right side line a better sight and consulted the service judge on this matter. Frankly spoken, it's seemingly not that biased call like before.

But Li Mao told Lin Dan to stay calm and take the umpire's decision as is. Out of control, Lin Dan aims at Li Mao and deliberately threw his racquet in the direction of Li Mao.

Consequently, the umpire took long to make up his mind whether to show a red or yellow card.

2. The Chines Coach and match observer give Lin Dan his racquet back.

3. Lin Dan, really in a rage, is shouting at Li Mao.

Simp84

01-27-2008, 09:44 AM

ok, a BCer, elderplayer has uploaded the last 9 min of that match at the "[Request] Korean Open " Video Sharing Thread. That scene is at 3 min.

From what I see, LD didnt throw his racket. He was pointing it in Li Mao's direction. Maybe the racket throwing part was another scene??
WHen the umpire made the call, LD was unhappy.

Li Mao stood up, said sthing, China coach came up to Li mao side & said sthing, both pushed each other. Tournament assistants had to hold the coaches back.
Li Mao said sthing, LD got angry, pointed his racket at Li Mao's direction & shouted sthing back. The tournament referee & assistants held LD back, told LD to continue. LD didnt throw his racket, he was still holding it & played with it.
Li Mao was still standing & said sthing.
Then, the umpire gave LD the yellow card.
from the video u cant see the throwing racket bit... Im pretty sure badzine had a correspondent there to witness the entire ordeal and put it on the website as it is

speedy

01-27-2008, 09:49 AM

Reminds me of the China Open 2007 Finals. Some posted LCW should have better mental strength & gone on with the game without being too effected by the bad line calls.

Shows even the best of them (World no 1 for 3 years) lost their cool.
Imagine the same scenario that happened to LCW happen to LD, how LD would have reacted.. more than trying to throw/hit racket.

The koreans have given the chinese the taste of their own medicine as in the previous china open. It is soooo..... ridiculous.

How come they couldn't use the "high tech" challenge as in tennis! I think I enjoyed the australian open more than the korean open due to this aspect

Badminton has now become like WWE in certain countries. Taufik knew all along about this...and we thought LD could take it, but.... he really broke down!

staples

01-27-2008, 09:49 AM

So, LHI among the host of candidates for OG GOLD now
1. LD
2. LCW
3. Peter Gade
4. LHI

Yes indeed LHI has a good chance. We'll see how he performs in the tournaments to come. DOn't forget to add Bao CL too to the list. But this thread is all about LHI :)

ants

01-27-2008, 09:50 AM

Lindan throw the racket after he lost. Like that he did during the MO .. but he smashs it to the court this time.

staples

01-27-2008, 09:52 AM

The koreans have given the chinese the taste of their own medicine as in the previous china open. It is soooo..... ridiculous.

I guess it's payback time at the Olympics. :) It's so sad if this was going to happen. Will the line judges there be local people or will they have judges from all different countries?

huangkwokhau

01-27-2008, 09:58 AM

Korean Open is known for his biased linesmen.........no secret as all players has their won story to tell....it is just sad that we can not have a fair play....the question is how we can promote Badminton into Professional sport like tennis???
BWF has warned Korean Organizer about this matter but we had witnessed that patriotic linesmen did not care.....

It is a sad day for badminton.....

economet

01-27-2008, 09:58 AM

Last but not least, the most suffering one is the Badminton sport if players can agree with decisions made during a match.

The umpire had it under a good control despite three corrected line calls through the whole match. At the score of 21-21, Lin Dan is sure of the "wrong" line call again which was not accepted by the umpire who consulted the service judge and certified the line judge a better sight. This once it is really a close call, and not an obviously biased call like before.

I can fully understand Lin Dan's rage because he feels robbed of the victory and was reminded of the jinx, because it is enormously important that Lin Dan can keep staying selfconfident.

2004, Li Mao was coaching the Korean Squad and Park Sunghwan won against Lin Dan at Malaysia Open. And that was a bad omen for him.

This time, he was defeated by Park Sunghwan and, of course, the coach Li Mao who was forced to go abroad by Li Yongbo during China Open 2007 on his home soil and didn't want to be reminded of what happened to him in Athens, but was on the verge of losing against Li Mao's protege, again.

Lin Dan could not let it become a real jinx while preparing for the most important victory of his career at Olympic Games 2008 in Beijing.

He certainly knows that the mental side and moral is most decisive and more valuable than every other superior skill. 2004, both the Chinese coach and the Korean coach for MS told inofficially that Taufik was the only one who played close to one's potential, free of pressure. It was extreme in cases of Chen Hong, Bao Chunlai and Sony Dwi Kuncoro. The one who took the most benefit from failing with manageing the huge pressure was clearly the silver medalist Shon Seungmo.

economet

01-27-2008, 10:13 AM

Lee Hyun-Il was asked if it had been correct for the umpire to show the red card after Lin Dan throwing his racquet towards Li Mao and dismiss him.

He replied it could be vice versa in Beijing. The most important thing is to stay calm and focussed.

I hope, Lin Dan can overcome the whole thing quickly.
He is my favourite for MS at the Olympic Games.

I'll see him during the German Open.

huangkwokhau

01-27-2008, 10:18 AM

alfa-2

01-27-2008, 10:23 AM

economet

01-27-2008, 10:23 AM

Lin Dan is registered for German Open according to the newest entry list. I want to eat with him again like last year. In Muelheim, there is a Chinese restaurant in the downtown shopping mall, usually, the whole Chinese Squad is there at least one time a day.

Last year, I ate there with Wu Un-Yong, my club's player, Chen Yu and Lin Dan at lunch.

I do not think that LD will be in German Open........tough for LD to play 3 tournaments eventhough he has to defend his point along with Chen Jin.

badMania

01-27-2008, 10:24 AM

I think BWF will do something to ground LD. Cant let them to go off like that after making the final of SS tournament into a circus.............Ppl will have no respect for BWF after this if no action is taken.

We will see....but I think Li Mao should bear certain responsibility as well, for taunting Lin Dan and pushing Zhong Bo (the Chinese coach) :cool:

huangkwokhau

01-27-2008, 10:24 AM

badMania

01-27-2008, 10:25 AM

I do not think that LD will be in German Open........tough for LD to play 3 tournaments eventhough he has to defend his point along with Chen Jin.

He might skip the Swiss Open then ?

volcom

01-27-2008, 10:25 AM

This is the kind of stuff thats really sad for badminton and frustrating for its fans not just the players. I sincerely hope in Beijing, the line calls are neutral and unbiased because that is how the game really should be... A battle of true skills between 2 players without someone gaining the assistance of external factors...

huangkwokhau

01-27-2008, 10:26 AM

Lin Dan is registered for German Open according to the newest entry list. I want to eat with him again like last year. In Muelheim, there is a Chinese restaurant in the downtown shopping mall, usually, the whole Chinese Squad is there at least one time a day.

Last year, I ate there with Wu Un-Yong, my club's player, Chen Yu and Lin Dan at lunch.
It wil be great if he really shows up for German Open.....

badMania

01-27-2008, 10:29 AM

It wil be great if he really shows up for German Open.....

I saw his name in the entry list, which also include:
Guo Zhendong/Xie Zhongbo
Gao Ling/Zhao Tingting
He Hanbin/Yu Yang
-- these three are the ones that need Olympic points....

huangkwokhau

01-27-2008, 10:33 AM

I saw his name in the entry list, which also include:
Guo Zhendong/Xie Zhongbo
Gao Ling/Zhao Tingting
He Hanbin/Yu Yang
-- these three are the ones that need Olympic points....
I saw it too but it does not mean that he will show up............

madbad

01-27-2008, 10:47 AM

Did anyone watch the presentation ceremony? Did LD accept his cheque/prize normally, or was there more controversy. Crowd boo?

economet

01-27-2008, 10:49 AM

Yes, Chinese Coaches led him to the podium.
Did anyone watch the presentation ceremony? Did LD accept his cheque/prize normally, or was there more controversy. Crowd boo?

lhchia

01-27-2008, 11:28 AM

all is mind game , Lin dan always use to this tactic..if u watch the game before....

this time fail to use this trick against lee mao. lee mao more experiance...haha....

Han

01-27-2008, 11:36 AM

why everyone is so happy when LD lost??

Not everybody but most people mainly due to his arrogant. Every one has unique character and fan just doesn't like Lin Dan behavior and how he handles win and loss. No doubt, Lin Dan is a very talented player.

Han

01-27-2008, 11:40 AM

Did anyone watch the presentation ceremony? Did LD accept his cheque/prize normally, or was there more controversy. Crowd boo?

Is good to see Lin Dan went to the podium even with the unfair defeat, it shows he has grown more mature. Is unfortunate Lin had to lose in such manner but take this as a learning ground and be a better player.

Han

01-27-2008, 11:45 AM

I thought the bad line calls favoured LD. If so, why LD got so upset about them?

If you know you're against all odd then it hard not to be agitated and live at the edge on every point, any questionable call will trigger the temper. The only thing Lin Dan need to understand is most players experienced the similar situation when playing in China too. What goes around, comes around.

Han

01-27-2008, 11:47 AM

I guess it's payback time at the Olympics. :) It's so sad if this was going to happen. Will the line judges there be local people or will they have judges from all different countries?

To what I understand, line judges in Olympic will not be local volunteer, they are from foreign nations?

OneToughBirdie

01-27-2008, 11:49 AM

Not everybody but most people mainly due to his arrogant. Every one has unique character and fan just doesn't like Lin Dan behavior and how he handles win and loss. No doubt, Lin Dan is a very talented player.
CHN dominance, LYB's game fixing, LD arrogance and on and on which may be a reason for others to not like CHN....but without LD, I would say one of the 4 big draw cards (TH, LCW and PG being the others), the game would play to more empty stadiums as if now the stadiums being empty enough are not bad already.

morphy

01-27-2008, 01:34 PM

nibaxiang

01-27-2008, 02:02 PM

I see all these comments about LHI's sportsmanship...then why didn't he say its a bad call? And if he thought it was the right call, say its right but he didn't:
When asked he replies "..it's the line judges call".

I dunno bout you guys but if it was an obvious bad call and I'm on the court it doesn't matter what side I'm on I'll say its bad. That's just good ettiquette. I was actually rooting for LHI but this win feels tainted sorry.

Completely agree. Badminon is not a gentleman's game any more.

Han

01-27-2008, 02:06 PM

I see all these comments about LHI's sportsmanship...then why didn't he say its a bad call? And if he thought it was the right call, say its right but he didn't:
When asked he replies "..it's the line judges call".

I dunno bout you guys but if it was an obvious bad call and I'm on the court it doesn't matter what side I'm on I'll say its bad. That's just good ettiquette. I was actually rooting for LHI but this win feels tainted sorry.

LHI said the right thing, he was too far away to correct the line judge decision and do you think even gentleman like Jonassen will do otherwise? Is not the players' fault, lets be clear about this.

morphy

01-27-2008, 02:14 PM

ye333

01-27-2008, 02:51 PM

I have seen many disputes about "out or in" in amateur matches. One side claims it's "clearly out", the other "clearly in". Do you think one of them is deliberately lying?

I don't think so.

Back to LHI. A line judge can concentrate on whether the birdie is out or in, but a player must not. After LHI hit the smash, his concentration should be on his opponent, that is LD, instead of where the birdie would land. Of course he has a sense whether the shot is out or in, but it's kind of subconscious. Furthermore, even if he concentrate on the birdie, there is no way LHI can tell where the birdie first touched the ground from his angle. His view should be blocked by the feathers.

A few more words. Next time when you are a line judge, try watch the game at the same time. You will find it is really hard to be sure about your calls.

too far away?
I'm not sure if you're refering to the same sport but it's a down the line shot. We've all played this sport so lets not kid ourselves.

If it was hit to the back baseline, sure that's almost impossible to tell if it was close. If it was a crosscourt shot, sure because of the angles it's hard to judge. But when its down the line, come on now. :rolleyes:

In fact, LHI has an even better vantage point than the umpire. Not saying its his fault..of course it isn't but on the other hand I'm not gonna exactly call him 'sportsmanlike', same with LD.

I've seen players in tournaments who come out and admit a bad call that's not in their favor..think LCW even did it once so it's not unheard of.

OneToughBirdie

01-27-2008, 02:57 PM

too far away?
I'm not sure if you're refering to the same sport but it's a down the line shot. We've all played this sport so lets not kid ourselves.

If it was hit to the back baseline, sure that's almost impossible to tell if it was close. If it was a crosscourt shot, sure because of the angles it's hard to judge. But when its down the line, come on now. :rolleyes:

In fact, LHI has an even better vantage point than the umpire. Not saying its his fault..of course it isn't but on the other hand I'm not gonna exactly call him 'sportsmanlike', same with LD.

I've seen players in tournaments who come out and admit a bad call that's not in their favor..think LCW even did it once so it's not unheard of.

Take a bad call in your favour since this is KO08 Open cos' next time, the bad call will be against you in CO08 Open, that seems logical.
I have not seen any players reversing bad calls in a championship game, esp with the score so close at duece. There is too much at stack in a championship match.
Baddy has become a game of win at all costs. Nowadays, even game fixing is entered into strategic planning, so why not bad calls, name calling (break legs) to mentally affect your opponents.
I recall LCW did reverse a bad call as you said, but that game is not a championship match and I cannot recall LCW was trailing at all in that game.
Sad as it is, baddy creates more excitement and news worthy in this LD-LM incidence that the great game itself.

bananakid

01-27-2008, 03:04 PM

I have seen many disputes about "out or in" in amateur matches. One side claims it's "clearly out", the other "clearly in". Do you think one of them is deliberately lying?

I don't think so.

Back to LHI. A line judge can concentrate on whether the birdie is out or in, but a player must not. After LHI hit the smash, his concentration should be on his opponent, that is LD, instead of where the birdie would land. Of course he has a sense whether the shot is out or in, but it's kind of subconscious. Furthermore, even if he concentrate on the birdie, there is no way LHI can tell where the birdie first touched the ground from his angle. His view should be blocked by the feathers.

A few more words. Next time when you are a line judge, try watch the game at the same time. You will find it is really hard to be sure about your calls.

The first paragraph does not hold true at all... In one recreational tournament I played at(no umpire or line judge), my short serve landed very close to the service line, and the opponent let it land... then he hesitated for about 3 to 5 seconds starring at the shuttle and the line, then he called it "out"... I was like thinking "yeah, right... jerk". If it was short, why did you even need to think... once you think and hesitate, you lose all of your creditability when you make a call against your opponent.

A lot of amateur players do just called shots "out" when they are clearly on the line, just so they don't feel dumb for leaving it... I just came back from playing badminton this morning, and it happened at 4-5 times in a 3 hours session. And YES, I do think they sometimes lie intentionally.

Han

01-27-2008, 03:08 PM

ye333

01-27-2008, 03:14 PM

You are actually proving my point. You didn't dispute because you choose not to, but you definitely believe your shot is in. So you and your opponent hold opposite opinions. :cool:

However, I don't think your opponent was lying. I have such experience before. I guess he was very much sure your serve would be short before it landed. However it turned out to be very close. So close that it was not clearly in, but he could not be sure that it was out either. Thus he needed to think twice.

Btw, I was talking about my personal experience. I am not claiming universal truth. What makes you think you can judge whether I was lying (about my personal experience) or not? :mad:

The first paragraph does not hold true at all... In one recreational tournament I played at(no umpire or line judge), my short serve landed very close to the service line, and the opponent let it land... then he hesitated for about 3 to 5 seconds starring at the shuttle and the line, then he called it "out"... I was like thinking "yeah, right... jerk". If it was short, why did you even need to think... once you think and hesitate, you lose all of your creditability when you make a call against your opponent.

A lot of amateur players do just called shots "out" when they are clearly on the line, just so they don't feel dumb for leaving it... I just came back from playing badminton this morning, and it happened at 4-5 times in a 3 hours session. And YES, I do think they sometimes lie intentionally.

sepang

01-27-2008, 04:26 PM

After all, it is all BWF fault. May be BWF wanna see badminton game like hockey game in US...create some violate, some drama and some controversies to draw fan attention and draw highlight of the tournament.

Better ruling, better tools in used will make everyone happy..isn't it? You could throw 300K for tournament but could not buy high tech gears that can be used again and again.....

samuel882

01-27-2008, 04:56 PM

There is so many bad calls against LHI during the game, did LD even react to A SINGLE CALL and try to overturn the umpire's decision?
Because of one Line Call which against LD & he is showing his anger Korea Coach then ppl start questioning LHI sportsmanship. What is this?
Players duty = play their game
Umpire/Linesman = make the judgement
If the umpire listened to every single protect and overrule linesman decision, what is the point of having the judges sitting in every corner?

ye333

01-27-2008, 05:01 PM

Mind explain a bit more?

There is so many bad calls against LHI during the game, did LD even react to A SINGLE CALL and try to overturn the umpire's decision?
Because of one Line Call which against LD & he is showing his anger Korea Coach then ppl start questioning LHI sportsmanship. What is this?
Players duty = play their game
Umpire/Linesman = make the judgement
If the umpire listened to every single protect and overrule linesman decision, what is the point of having the judges sitting in every corner?

sepang

01-27-2008, 05:39 PM

"There is so many bad calls against LHI during the game,"
Umpire reversed the call and gave the point to LD. Should it be "bad call" or "call correction"? It is all up to you.

narnia

01-27-2008, 05:44 PM

huangkwokhau

01-27-2008, 05:46 PM

To what I understand, line judges in Olympic will not be local volunteer, they are from foreign nations?
I believe that BWF will send 10 linesmen outisde from China...( there is article in BWF's website to ask people to mapply for linesmen...)
For umpire, there will be from 2 from china only and the rest are from USA, ASia, Europe, Ocenia...
I think BWF may send m ore because of this KO's event.....

madbad

01-27-2008, 05:47 PM

I see all these comments about LHI's sportsmanship...then why didn't he say its a bad call? And if he thought it was the right call, say its right but he didn't:
When asked he replies "..it's the line judges call".

I dunno bout you guys but if it was an obvious bad call and I'm on the court it doesn't matter what side I'm on I'll say its bad. That's just good ettiquette. I was actually rooting for LHI but this win feels tainted sorry.

You're pretty naive, aren't you? This is a professional circuit where they play for money, and a final to boot. LHI was right to cite "it's the line judge's call". You might see some charity in the earlier rounds and during lopsided matches.

huangkwokhau

01-27-2008, 05:51 PM

too far away?
I'm not sure if you're refering to the same sport but it's a down the line shot. We've all played this sport so lets not kid ourselves.

If it was hit to the back baseline, sure that's almost impossible to tell if it was close. If it was a crosscourt shot, sure because of the angles it's hard to judge. But when its down the line, come on now. :rolleyes:

In fact, LHI has an even better vantage point than the umpire. Not saying its his fault..of course it isn't but on the other hand I'm not gonna exactly call him 'sportsmanlike', same with LD.

I've seen players in tournaments who come out and admit a bad call that's not in their favor..think LCW even did it once so it's not unheard of.

If it is close like 1 inch or 2 inches, unless unpire saw it clearly, otherwise it is hard for umpire to correct the calls....I had been told by INA XD that several close calls were in favour to KOR...even coaches know that if it is too close ( even it is out a bit), mostly umpire could not rule it, unless, the shuttle lands on umpire's side......

We have witnessed it already, even by mile, It was in, let alone few inches...

madbad

01-27-2008, 05:53 PM

Watch the following news clip.
Click the video then can see LD's throwing his racquet at 1:50.

http://news.naver.com/tv/read.php?mode=LSS2D&office_id=052&article_id=0000183309&section_id=129&section_id2=5ae

Nice one, he did too... very clearly.

sepang

01-27-2008, 05:54 PM

morphy

01-27-2008, 06:12 PM

You're pretty naive, aren't you? This is a professional circuit where they play for money, and a final to boot. LHI was right to cite "it's the line judge's call". You might see some charity in the earlier rounds and during lopsided matches.

My point is he isn't mr.sportsmanship like all the LD haters like to claim he is that's all. :p Like you say, he is just another pro playing for the $$...to hell with fair play. Seems his fellow countrymen line judges are on the same school of thought.

madbad

01-27-2008, 06:30 PM

My point is he isn't mr.sportsmanship like all the LD haters like to claim he is that's all. :p Like you say, he is just another pro playing for the $$...to hell with fair play. Seems his fellow countrymen line judges are on the same school of thought.

Any player could make a case for any bad call made against him. And in many instances, these calls have nothing to do with home country bias. We just don't hear about them, maybe because they involve lesser players, or because there are so many matches, not every one is reported. My point is that for every "homer" call, there are many others that aren't so. We just get fixated on the controversial ones.

morphy

01-27-2008, 07:03 PM

My point is that for every "homer" call, there are many others that aren't so. We just get fixated on the controversial ones.
Are you suggesting that there could be controversial calls made that favor LD? Maybe so but I wasn't there at courtside to know. I can just go by the umpire's rulings.

And if that were the case why weren't any of those overuled by the umpire?
Is it coincidence or just plain incompetence that every controversial call that was made that was overuled by the umpire (who is a foreigner) went in LD's favor? Doesn't that suggest that all the controversial calls were 'homer calls'? Where are the "other calls that aren't homer calls"?

That's not incompetence or coincidence, that's just blatant bias judging on the part of the linesmen.

colekwok

01-27-2008, 07:13 PM

My point is he isn't mr.sportsmanship like all the LD haters like to claim he is that's all. :p Like you say, he is just another pro playing for the $$...to hell with fair play. Seems his fellow countrymen line judges are on the same school of thought.

I cannot agree more. I am not bias to the Chinese team, but their players are under much higher pressure to do well than the other countries' players. I think at least 1/3 to half of their winning money goes back to the team and country. So, you can see how the Chinese team would react when their players do not do well in matches. The fact is they, the Chinese badminton team is still having this old 'communist' mentorship system, like the old USSR olympic team. The idea is, your success and fame is brought to your only by your country, and they brought you up from nobody to a superstar, so you have to win to pay them back. So you know the idea. If you don't do well, they will just kick you back to your local county (province/state) teams. As simple as that. And yes, they are playing for the money, but that is not just for themselves, imagine how LYB would treat them if one loses in the final and only gets half of the winning money.

As far as I know, players in other countries are treated more 'liberal' and 'human', and as 'professionals'. The Chinese team play as a collective instead of individual, that is why they have the so call 'match fixing' thing. Thanks to LYB, this will go on forever in the Chinese team. Sad.

madbad

01-27-2008, 07:29 PM

Are you suggesting that there could be controversial calls made that favor LD? Maybe so but I wasn't there at courtside to know. I can just go by the umpire's rulings.

And if that were the case why weren't any of those overuled by the umpire?
Is it coincidence or just plain incompetence that every controversial call that was made that was overuled by the umpire (who is a foreigner) went in LD's favor? Doesn't that suggest that all the controversial calls were 'homer calls'? Where are the "other calls that aren't homer calls"?

That's not incompetence or coincidence, that's just blatant bias judging on the part of the linesmen.

I think you missed my point, but in general I think we're arguing for the same point. I was talking about matches in general, and not just the LD/LHI one. What I'm trying to say is that there are many matches involving players not from the home nation and there are controversial calls too in these matches. You cannot attribute these calls to home country bias but rather to missed line calls. We only see the one featuring the stars because it's generally their matches that are covered.

As far as the LD/LHI match goes, I don't deny there's suspicion of homer line calling. The KO gained it's rep from last year's edition so why would this year be different?

X Ball

01-27-2008, 07:44 PM

ctjcad

01-27-2008, 08:49 PM

*i haven't seen the match and the racket throwing incident, so, i'm just commenting based on the posts/articles/reports from people who saw the match. I might revise/change my opinion after i watch the match.
I would also tend to think that LD's action, as mentioned by other BCers, was the result of his sheer frustration at the quality and type of calls that were made. Perhaps also for allowing LHI to crawl back and made the match more competitive than he would expect.
I would say, all parties were somewhat responsible and to be fair to all, i would say : the calls should've been called better.
Anyway, as for the current controversy, i think it'll keep us somewhat occupied with something to chat about, esp. since there will be no more SS tourney until March (when AE rolls around)..:cool:
everyone please read this article from badzine.. seriously shockingly unprofessional and barbaric way to deal with bad line calls.. u can understand why the korean bench got violent after that......

http://www.badzine.info/content/view/820/2/...
..here's the complete article from badzine.com..Btw, the writer, Mr. Don Hearn, is actually a BC member who resides in Korea; he uses the screen-name event..From the report, i would trust his first hand account of the incident..:cool:
================================================== ========
KOREA OPEN: Sparks and Racquets Fly in Final
Written by Don Hearn
Sunday, 27 January 2008
Shuttles, harsh words, and even racquets flew in today's men's singles final in Seoul when the umpire refused to correct a disputed call that gave Lee Hyun Il his first match point in game 3.

By Don Hearn, Live in Seoul. Photos: Badmintonphoto.com (Live)

The match had been tense all the way through and the umpire was very busy, correcting 4 calls by the line judges and calling each player for reaching over the net.

At 20-all in the tight third game, the line judge called a shuttle in and this time, the umpire refused to make a correction. Lin Dan went livid and began screaming at the umpire, then at Lee Hyun Il and finally threw his racquet past the umpire and past Korean coach Li Mao.

Li Mao then stormed toward Lin and things threatened to get physical with the Chinese coaches entering the fray as well but the tournament referees rushed in to calm things down and the match continued.

Lee kept his cool and finished the match, winning 4-21, 23-21, 25-23 to take his first Korea Open win ever. After the match, he was his usual soft-spoken self, even while expressing his joy at his first home title.

Asked what Lin Dan had said to him after the controversial call, Lee replied "He asked me 'You saw that shot! Wasn't it out?' but it's the line judge's call."
:pNow I understand why Taufik boycotts the Korean Open
Korean Open is known for his biased linesmen.........no secret as all players has their won story to tell....it is just sad that we can not have a fair play....the question is how we can promote Badminton into Professional sport like tennis???
BWF has warned Korean Organizer about this matter but we had witnessed that patriotic linesmen did not care.....

It is a sad day for badminton.....
...As far as the LD/LHI match goes, I don't deny there's suspicion of homer line calling. The KO gained it's rep from last year's edition so why would this year be different?
..hmm, the more i think about this, the more i wonder:
IF the players, coaches knew about the tendency of the linejuedges at the KO to make such "bias"/"homer" calls, then wouldn't a lot of players already boycott in participating in this tourney??..IF not, then why did they participate knowing full well that this type of controversy was bound to show its ugly head, again..Did they expect something different??..:confused:
...A few more words. Next time when you are a line judge, try watch the game at the same time. You will find it is really hard to be sure about your calls.
..i would somewhat concur with this statement..
...
Players duty = play their game
Umpire/Linesman = make the judgement
If the umpire listened to every single protect and overrule linesman decision, what is the point of having the judges sitting in every corner?
..and also somewhat concur with this statement..

madbad

01-27-2008, 10:03 PM

..hmm, the more i think about this, the more i wonder:
IF the players, coaches knew about the tendency of the linejuedges at the KO to make such "bias"/"homer" calls, then wouldn't a lot of players already boycott in participating in this tourney??..IF not, then why did they participate knowing full well that this type of controversy was bound to show its ugly head, again..Did they expect something different??..:confused:

I'm sure within the players circles they know and possibly talk about this. But don't forget the KO offers big $$$, so even getting to the SF of QF might get them more $$ than in an equivalent tournament. Also, being an Olympic year and with a limited number of tournaments to pick up points, every one counts, especially for those on the edge of qualification.

I wonder out loud if the BWF even learned anything from the controversies of last year. No wonder badminton is getting no respect as a sport.

morphy

01-27-2008, 10:08 PM

Man, don't make me throw the racket at you :D
Imagine, we are not even playing the match yet are fighting and arguing for this, you think those players involved will be calmer than us? LHI and Lin Dan did not get into verbal auguement is a blessing to me.
Sorry for being contentious, wasn't my intention at all...so please don't throw that racquet. I'm sure it's too nice a racquet.

I was initially very glad to see the result of the MS but when the news came out it kinda soured a bit. And part of me can't understand how anyone can be happy at the result be they a fan of LHI or not. Because the biggest loser here is the sport of Badminton.

It also tells me that the linesmen who felt they needed to resort to that level don't have much confidence in LHI and needed their 'help'...nevermind the fact that they were supposed to be impartial.

And I feel bad too for LHI because even tho he won, he'll always be asked about the controversial call...not how he overcame a very lopsided and embarassing loss in the first set to win the match. Most players would have their confidence shaken and never regain it back.

He played so well in the MO and I feel that he could have beaten LD in that match even without the disputed call.

V3i HoN6

01-27-2008, 10:16 PM

It goes to show that even Lin Dan is not unshakeable when it comes to emotions concerning bad calls. He was clearly upset and it speaks volumes about LCW's reactions in the China Open. It goes to prove that everyone is human when it comes to unfair calls and will react accordingly. To say that LCW was naive or inexperienced to react so badly against unfair calls is pointless as the human mind is always reactive whether it is LCW or LD.
Strangely those "great champions shouldn't be affected" tough guy comments didn't appears much now.
And where are the people who still thinks those calls were just bad sight and weren't intently favor to the home boy.

My point is that for every "homer" call, there are many others that aren't so. We just get fixated on the controversial ones.
Those many others that aren't so?
They are fair calls that mind you didn't favor to LD as well, even he earned points from that. And it is suppose to be like that for all the 21 pts.
To me, there are no good calls in badminton as all correct calls are suppose to be correct. It didn't do favor to the party that win the points.

IF the players, coaches knew about the tendency of the linejuedges at the KO to make such "bias"/"homer" calls, then wouldn't a lot of players already boycott in participating in this tourney??..IF not, then why did they participate knowing full well that this type of controversy was bound to show its ugly head, again..Did they expect something different??..:confused:

..i would somewhat concur with this statement..

..and also somewhat concur with this statement..

So far, i thought it is going well even at the semi final until yesterday.
I'm sure many are ready for this and came in ready for a walkout anytime if something terrible happens. But not at the final stage though.

ctjcad

01-27-2008, 10:35 PM

I'm sure within the players circles they know and possibly talk about this. But don't forget the KO offers big $$$, so even getting to the SF of QF might get them more $$ than in an equivalent tournament. Also, being an Olympic year and with a limited number of tournaments to pick up points, every one counts, especially for those on the edge of qualification.
..in other words, those players who came & play at this KO would risk the chances of getting biased-line calls & being involved in controversy, even losing a match in place of getting more monies...or is it the other way around??..:confused: :p
...So far, i thought it is going well even at the semi final until yesterday.
I'm sure many are ready for this and came in ready for a walkout anytime if something terrible happens. But not at the final stage though.
..if that's the case & players were ready for those "biased-line calls" shouldn't LD stay cool, calm & collected??..:confused: :p

madbad

01-27-2008, 10:42 PM

..in other words, those players who came & play at this KO would risk the chances of getting biased-line calls & being involved in controversy, even losing a match in place of getting more monies...or is it the other way around??..:confused: :p

Put it this way, as far as money goes, they are supported by their respective associations, hence they're not putting out any $$ to participate in the tournament. One must be living under a shell to believe there are no bias line judges in the world of badminton. Sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't. I'm sure they are prepared by their coaches to deal with it (one hopes). So it's a matter of how far you can go and taking the lumps with it. A win in every round puts more $$ in the player's pocket and more valuable Olympic points. Do you think they'd turn it down?

madbad

01-27-2008, 10:49 PM

Those many others that aren't so?
They are fair calls that mind you didn't favor to LD as well, even he earned points from that. And it is suppose to be like that for all the 21 pts.
To me, there are no good calls in badminton as all correct calls are suppose to be correct. It didn't do favor to the party that win the points.

You'll find that I was talking about matches in the tournament in general, not this one specifically. Also line judges are humans. They can't get every call correct–that's why there are good and bad calls, as witnessed vividly in the LD/LHI match. That's why we are all hoping for the BWF to be able to make enough $$ to implement some sort of TV replay system/hawkeye to minimize them.

ctjcad

01-27-2008, 10:53 PM

Put it this way, as far as money goes, they are supported by their respective associations, hence they're not putting out any $$ to participate in the tournament. One must be living under a shell to believe there are no bias line judges in the world of badminton. Sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't. I'm sure they are prepared by their coaches to deal with it (one hopes). So it's a matter of how far you can go and taking the lumps with it. A win in every round puts more $$ in the player's pocket and more valuable Olympic points. Do you think they'd turn it down?
..are the players prepared by their coaches to deal with the bias-line judges??..hmm, well, is LinDan one of those players, esp. in this KO??..:confused:
..to answer the last question, i know 1 player (if not a few others) who've turned down playing in the KO, for the above reason..:p

madbad

01-27-2008, 11:02 PM

..are the players prepared by their coaches to deal with the bias-line judges??..hmm, well, is LinDan one of those players, esp. in this KO??..:confused:
You'll have to ask LYB ;):D

..to answer the last question, i know 1 player (if not a few others) who've turned down playing in the KO, for the above reason..:p
But all those who participated didn't

alfa-2

01-27-2008, 11:15 PM

I doubt it....LD got Yellow card already....
what's yellow card? he didnt get any punishment from that also. it's not that LD is fined USD10,000 for that card. LM should get something too for the circus doing..........

vching

01-27-2008, 11:20 PM

what's yellow card? he didnt get any punishment from that also. it's not that LD is fined USD10,000 for that card. LM should get something too for the circus doing..........

yellow card means: get back to playing or else I am going to give you a black card (forfeit match)

alfa-2

01-27-2008, 11:22 PM

If you know you're against all odd then it hard not to be agitated and live at the edge on every point, any questionable call will trigger the temper. The only thing Lin Dan need to understand is most players experienced the similar situation when playing in China too. What goes around, comes around.

yeah i still remember the Korean Doubles or XD quit after some bad line calls in CO. will this thing go like a merry go round?? we'll see later this coming August? Revenge turn??:D:D:D

alfa-2

01-27-2008, 11:37 PM

yellow card means: get back to playing or else I am going to give you a black card (forfeit match)

yeah well, he should be given a black card, so does LM.:mad: Im thinking that the umpire was being too soft now.

huangkwokhau

01-27-2008, 11:39 PM

yeah i still remember the Korean Doubles or XD quit after some bad line calls in CO. will this thing go like a merry go round?? we'll see later this coming August? Revenge turn??:D:D:D
It was Lee Young dae in MD that walked out the match.....for sake of badminton, I hope all future tournaments avoids the revenge things....the loser here is our beloved sport, badminton.....

jump_smash

01-28-2008, 12:18 AM

I believe that BWF will send 10 linesmen outisde from China...( there is article in BWF's website to ask people to mapply for linesmen...)
For umpire, there will be from 2 from china only and the rest are from USA, ASia, Europe, Ocenia...
I think BWF may send m ore because of this KO's event.....

There were less than 10 for Sydney Olympics. some of the line judges were national umpires from their country. One in particular was a former international umpire, but because of age restrictions had been forced to retire from international matches.

The invitation usually goes out to the five continental confederations - Europe, Pan-America, Africa, Asia and Oceania

godmama

01-28-2008, 04:10 AM

lee hyun ll is playing skills.....LD just smash/tap...thats all Ld can play

General Foo

01-28-2008, 04:32 AM

godmama

01-28-2008, 04:36 AM

watever......ur ld's fan so u would think like this..

General Foo

01-28-2008, 04:39 AM

watever......ur ld's fan so u would think like this..

lol no im a badminton fan. You're obviously very anti lin dan.

vching

01-28-2008, 04:39 AM

hmm.... Lin Dan is number 1 for a reason you know...

He is obviously a very good player, no doubt about that.

huangkwokhau

01-28-2008, 04:43 AM

lee hyun ll is playing skills.....LD just smash/tap...thats all Ld can play
If you can play badminton, LD is one of complete player...if you think LD can smash and tap...what make LHI can play??? touch and run after the shuttles???

Louisa

01-28-2008, 05:50 AM

lee hyun ll is playing skills.....LD just smash/tap...thats all Ld can play
certainly LD can do more than that...i would say he is a great player physically...just need to be more mature in term of carrying himself...

eaglehelang

01-28-2008, 06:13 AM

lee hyun ll is playing skills.....LD just smash/tap...thats all Ld can play

Lin Dan isnt World No 1 for 3 years(LD fans, is it 2 or 3 yrs?) if he's not good player. And AE champ & WC Champ (2X) and a long string of SS titles. One cant be on top that long if they dont have it in them.
That would be like saying all the other players(world no 2 downwards) are below par,skill wise.

Jasonvan

01-28-2008, 06:24 AM

lee hyun ll is playing skills.....LD just smash/tap...thats all Ld can play

I wonder if you really know anything about badminton? If all LD can do is smash/tap, I guess all the players ranked below him have even less skill or ability according to your view? That's like saying all LCW's got is speed, or all TH's got is his backhand smash? All Tiger Woods can do is use a 2 iron, or all Federer can do is hit a forehand, all Nadal can do is run around the tennis court....

alfa-2

01-28-2008, 06:24 AM

lee hyun ll is playing skills.....LD just smash/tap...thats all Ld can play

yeah LD has no skills, he can only be no.1......:D:D:D you cant be serious right?

eaglehelang

01-28-2008, 08:34 AM

Strangely those "great champions shouldn't be affected" tough guy comments didn't appears much now.
And where are the people who still thinks those calls were just bad sight and weren't intently favor to the home boy.

Yup, dunno who were the ones who said that abt LCW, hmmmm. But then again, our Sports Minister said that too - the "should be mentally stronger" bit, with others singing same tune. In contrast, the World No 1 has reacted worse.

BWF gotta do sthing quick, any controversy in Beijing will smear the OG name.

Tommy Susanto

01-28-2008, 01:15 PM

Taufik learnt about the korean ways, and now LD too. The question is Do you:p

cooler

01-28-2008, 01:19 PM

I wonder if you really know anything about badminton? If all LD can do is smash/tap, I guess all the players ranked below him have even less skill or ability according to your view? That's like saying all LCW's got is speed, or all TH's got is his backhand smash? All Tiger Woods can do is use a 2 iron, or all Federer can do is hit a forehand, all Nadal can do is run around the tennis court....
dont forget to leave out our panda here, dinkalot can dink like nobody;)

madbad

01-28-2008, 01:23 PM

lee hyun ll is playing skills.....LD just smash/tap...thats all Ld can play

Hahaha, thanks for the comic relief :rolleyes:. Now that you've got everyone wound up, please get back to your school homework. I think your (god)mama is calling you :cool::rolleyes:

cooler

01-28-2008, 01:25 PM

lee hyun ll is playing skills.....LD just smash/tap...thats all Ld can playthen i said korean coaching staff are not smart, teaching LHI skills all these years when they could teach LHI to smash/tap to gain #1 spot. :rolleyes: I suggest korean coaches watch more lin dan videos and youtube LOL

Wong8Egg

01-28-2008, 02:15 PM

Speaking of LHI, I think he does deserve to win the KO title despite the disputed calls.

I have been watching Lee since the Asian game final where he lost to TH (back then in 2002 or 03??). And he is always one of my favorite player since then. I really liked his playing style, very calm and solid. Although he might be TOO calm sometimes, where I found lot of his games were either winning or losing by a huge margin.

Lee is also probably one of the top player that has the most solid foot work. Also I found LHI is much liked TH, where both of them love to use backhand to conserve energy (or lazy? :p) and emotionless, but with Lee playing even more on the defensive side.

Unlike LD or LCW, where both of them has inhuman speed and power, Lee counter them with superb control and super accurate point smash. Where when he is in control, he wins the game, or else, get slaughtered badly.

And poor PSH is certified to back to the #2 spot now. :p

P.S: I remember LHI consistently hitting some 300KM+ smashes during WC06, so never underestimate what he is capable in.

xXazn_romeoXx

01-28-2008, 03:30 PM

i don't believe it's whoever deserve to win games, should win games...it's who actually did win them, statistically and rhythmically...if we think that people who should win is who deserves to win, then everyone that plays deserves to win because they all play with heart and will. Lin Dan and Lee Hyun Il both played a great match. Lin Dan was his usual dominating self, and Lee Hyun Il came back, despite losing an embarrasing first game. but all of this aside is the fiasco.

now Lin Dan is one of the people to blame because of his outburst. whether it was provoked/justified or not, professionals cannot be condoned to behave in this way. this goes for all players, so i give no preferrance to anyone. even if he walked off like TH/LCW/Korean MD, it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. you walk off, you're not doing your job, and you're not acting professionally. this goes without saying that it happens whether you feel it's justified or not. it shouldn't matter what the circumstance is or not, you're there to play, and you should do it. make it up on the court. be the bigger person. hit the opponent in the face with the bird ;)...lol...joking aside.

li mao is also to blame, he shouldn't have gotten off the coaching bench and gesturing anything to begin with. now we will never know exactly what he said, but the point being, it does prolong the conflict and it does raise the tension in the match. whether or not he pressured the umpire, we will never know.

and this is indeed a sad day for badminton. this type of attitude and behaviour by any nation should not be condoned. and i for one am sick of stuff like this. i don't care if it is china or korea or malaysia or indonesia, all fan bias aside, the calls need to be correct. this doesn't mean that it will. i understand human error, and sometimes the lighting of the stadium does take into effect. even so in CO or this KO, there is human error in calls. but there's no reason for it to be happening, after the umpire has corrected the calls that amount of times. granted the view of the umpire can affect the overall call, but there should be a system like tennis, in which players can challenge. there is no reason that any *read ANY* player to suffer injustice, whether it be Taufik or Choong Wei or Lin Dan.

but bottom line being, Lee Hyun Il winning the match, being the first Korean to do so in MS since 1996. Congrats!

xsakurax

01-28-2008, 06:49 PM

now Lin Dan is one of the people to blame because of his outburst. whether it was provoked/justified or not, professionals cannot be condoned to behave in this way. this goes for all players, so i give no preferrance to anyone. even if he walked off like TH/LCW/Korean MD, it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. you walk off, you're not doing your job, and you're not acting professionally. this goes without saying that it happens whether you feel it's j

err i dont think i remember any incident where LCW walked off the court during any tournament =X
I'm sure TH and the korean MD have done it but not LCW.

cooler

01-28-2008, 06:59 PM

but bottom line being, Lee Hyun Il winning the match, being the first Korean to do so in MS since 1996. Congrats!
maybe this proves how deperate and hungry the korean team wanted the MS title. LHI returning to badminton was like a gift (maybe with some enticement) and mainly for taking a shot at 08 OG. If they don't take advantage of 2008, i don't see any top MS guns coming out of Korean team in the near future. I'm sure LiMao had made some 'deliverables';) so that korea team would hires him:D

xXazn_romeoXx

01-28-2008, 07:05 PM

err i dont think i remember any incident where LCW walked off the court during any tournament =X
I'm sure TH and the korean MD have done it but not LCW.

i'm not saying there is, but there've been recounts of how LCW would act in that situation, and how he acted in CO, versus how LD has acted. all i was saying is that it wouldn't matter if it was LCW, he wouldn't be justified in walking out of a match if he was in that situation, that's all :D...

xXazn_romeoXx

01-28-2008, 07:06 PM

maybe this proves how deperate and hungry the korean team wanted the MS title. LHI returning to badminton was like a gift (maybe with some enticement) and mainly for taking a shot at 08 OG. If they don't take advantage of 2008, i don't see any top MS guns coming out of Korean team in the near future. I'm sure LiMao had made some 'deliverables';) so that korea team would hires him:D

LHI is taking back his "rightful" #1 spot in Korea ;) and trying to regain his place in the world rankings :p

xXHilikusXx

01-28-2008, 09:37 PM

well i didnt watch the whole thing, but he had fire for sure on that last call. but then again, who wouldnt be pissed at an out call with an obviously in shot whether or not you had a few good calls for yourself previously

cooler

01-28-2008, 09:48 PM

LHI is taking back his "rightful" #1 spot in Korea ;) and trying to regain his place in the world rankings :pif they wanted that badly, let china team know maybe they can work out something;) That's what TH said to the media after the 07 SEA game in thailand.

Most of us have short memory i guess

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50625

huangkwokhau

01-28-2008, 09:52 PM

I guess this time..LD has high value entertainment ...just like LD's fans...:D:D
Last time, someone mentioned it was TH, now it is LD's turn.....:D

Han

01-28-2008, 11:30 PM

last year China and hong Kong Super Series, Lee Chong Wei also met this kind of bxxxxxxt in "final"...... although he's patient enough to face the fact, but still not happy......

the only good thing comes out from this incident is forcing BWF to take action on those poor line calls, days of having cameras on side lines will be here soon.

madbad

01-28-2008, 11:41 PM

the only good thing comes out from this incident is forcing BWF to take action on those poor line calls, days of having cameras on side lines will be here soon.

It seems like BWF has to learn lessons the hard way before they're forced to take action. Otherwise they just doddle along thinking all in the world is fine. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

xXazn_romeoXx

01-29-2008, 12:43 AM

if they wanted that badly, let china team know maybe they can work out something;) That's what TH said to the media after the 07 SEA game in thailand.

Most of us have short memory i guess

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50625

ya, i actually believe taufik is serious about what he said, since he successfully boycotted this KO knowing full well could (and did) happpen :p...if LHI wants it that bad, i'll just walk off and give it to them lol...what's the fun in that? we fans want entertainment! ahaha ;)

Joyous

01-29-2008, 02:18 AM

the only good thing comes out from this incident is forcing BWF to take action on those poor line calls, days of having cameras on side lines will be here soon.

Hopefully BWF will wake up and take positive steps. As the saying goes-fish rots from the head. Preventive measures are certainly more positive than corrective measures and BWF is doing the latter which is not working positively.

SImplelenna

01-29-2008, 02:33 AM

Awesome play Lee Hyun Il and keep it up! What a remarkable fighting spirit and this guy fight for each point and shown good sport spirit.I was shocked seeing Lin dan attitude during the 3rd game.The judge has overrulled quite a number of times and given a points to Lin Dan whenever it comes to bad calls and the judge have judged fairly but when comes to the point which is right and has been given to Lee Hyun Il at last stage during the 3rd game,Lin Dan just couldn't take it.I admire the way Lin Dan plays badminton and he has great skills but when comes to attitude I am a bit dissapointed.

Congratulations Lee Hyun Il and keep the good sport spirit as always:)

regards,
malaysiangirlI must admit that LHi has a great progress, but to judge that LD is very emotional too early, well cause I can't watch the game so I just thought that LD very angry of Li Mao, if he Didn't interfere when LD protest the Lines judge maybe LD didn't such a fool thing for a player, well
I think Korean Open always made a players heart attack for honesty...:crying:
since I know that Taufik wouldn't came to Korean open cause he felt emotional thingking....

jump_smash

01-30-2008, 06:20 AM

maybe this proves how deperate and hungry the korean team wanted the MS title. LHI returning to badminton was like a gift (maybe with some enticement) and mainly for taking a shot at 08 OG. If they don't take advantage of 2008, i don't see any top MS guns coming out of Korean team in the near future. I'm sure LiMao had made some 'deliverables';) so that korea team would hires him:D

More likely is getting into the top 20 before Olympics - so he can qualify

eaglehelang

01-30-2008, 07:08 AM

More likely is getting into the top 20 before Olympics - so he can qualify

Top 16 to qualify for OG, now LHI is no 23. Minus one or two from same country, top 18, should be achievable for LHI.

ye333

01-30-2008, 08:21 AM

LD was acting pretty emotional from the very first bad line call (which of course was overruled by the umpire). I guess that's kind of a static, trying to put pressure on LHI and the umpire -- unfortunately it finally backfired. :cool:

I must admit that LHi has a great progress, but to judge that LD is very emotional too early, well cause I can't watch the game so I just thought that LD very angry of Li Mao, if he Didn't interfere when LD protest the Lines judge maybe LD didn't such a fool thing for a player, well
I think Korean Open always made a players heart attack for honesty...:crying:
since I know that Taufik wouldn't came to Korean open cause he felt emotional thingking....

badMania

01-30-2008, 08:28 AM

LD was acting pretty emotional from the very first bad line call (which of course was overruled by the umpire). I guess that's kind of a static, trying to put pressure on LHI and the umpire -- unfortunately it finally backfired. :cool:

I believe the previous poster didn't have a chance to watch the "new videos". I just watched it a couple of hrs back and I was really shocked at the way Lin Dan reacted :eek: Totally unprofessional....

Jasonvan

01-30-2008, 10:10 PM

Actually in an interview later, LHI commented about LD, saying he's arragant, and dirty... He said that he tries to put pressure on umpire to get all calls his way. Also it's LHI's dream to win the korean open and he said he will definitely defend his title next year, but he doesn't know if LD will be there for it(as a sort of parting shot)...

ye333

01-30-2008, 10:29 PM

I would like to see this interview in its original form or English translation. I highly doubt the accuracy of the Chinese version. (On the other hand I am quite interested in hearing LHI's comments. :D)

There is another Chinese "interview" with the umpire which is very inaccurate, totally inconsistent with the videos.

Actually in an interview later, LHI commented about LD, saying he's arragant, and dirty... He said that he tries to put pressure on umpire to get all calls his way. Also it's LHI's dream to win the korean open and he said he will definitely defend his title next year, but he doesn't know if LD will be there for it(as a sort of parting shot)...

Jasonvan

01-30-2008, 11:04 PM

http://sports.sina.com.cn/o/2008-01-30/05133450481.shtml

ye333

01-30-2008, 11:23 PM

As I said, I tend to not believe verbatim this report. Since recently there are several such reports which are pretty far from the truth. A few examples:

1. A Sina report about a controversial call at 20:20 between TH and PSH in Mas Open.

2. A report about TH in SEA Games.

3. An "interview" of the umpire of the LD - LHI match.

http://sports.sina.com.cn/o/2008-01-30/05133450481.shtml

ye333

01-30-2008, 11:33 PM

huangkwokhau

01-30-2008, 11:49 PM

of totally untrue report (almost the opposite of what really happened):

Video of 20:20 TH - PSH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Wjno0kqjQ

Sina report:
http://sports.sina.com.cn/o/2008-01-16/15473421220.shtml
I was there...I think I explained this in other thread.....TH knew that shuttle was IN and chose to keep quiet and Park protested and umpire still asked the linesmen, and he insisted that the shuttle was out...Park continues playing....
I mentioned that mistake made by linesmen and TH was lucky to get 2nd match otherwise Park had a chance to win the game...

ctjcad

01-30-2008, 11:59 PM

of totally untrue report (almost the opposite of what really happened):

Video of 20:20 TH - PSH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Wjno0kqjQ
...
:)..in that video is the scene at the end...Check out Li Mao jumped up, arms wide open at the side w/fingers waving as if trying to call security, and then looked at the side line-judge in disbelief & was ready to argue:p ;)..Hmm, I wonder if he did the same thing also in this recent incident, right after LD complained to the Umpire on the last bad line call..:confused:
*Btw, shouldn't that be where usually coach(es) would sit during a match??..Unlike in the 2008 KO MSF??:confused:

Han

01-31-2008, 12:02 AM

Top 16 to qualify for OG, now LHI is no 23. Minus one or two from same country, top 18, should be achievable for LHI.

He has no problem qualifying the Olympic, if he can maintain his form, he may very well be in the top 10 by April, don't forget he was the Finalist in malaysia Open and won the Korea Open title, both are Super Series.

pjswift

01-31-2008, 12:54 AM

I will be happier if it is BCL. Frankly, LD should have been crowned the champion today.
Why do you think so?
LD played well but LHI played superior.LD was no match for LHI mentally.When LD reached 20-18 , he did a victory- for-sure skip because he was confident of closing with 2 match points.When he couldn't , he mentally collapsed.He then was focussed on outside help (umpire?) to help him win while LHI was focussed on his badminton. That's why when the umpire didn't help him , LD boomeranged whereas LHI subtly clenched his fist.Thereafter all LHI needed to do was to keep the shuttle in play and wait for LD to commit errors.
LHI was awesome in his defeat of LD for 3 reasons:
1. LD was twice as fresh physically (LD's first tournament vs LHI's second tournament).On that basis alone and with purportedly better skills, LD should be able to take care of LHI confidently.
2. LHI was the player who was victimised but he hid it well. The umpire acted largely as LD's free protection insurance (because LD alerted him?),targetting to overrule line judges at all opportunities. That's ok except for one good call that was overruled wrongly.Had that call been rightly awarded to LHI, LHI would have won G3 with a score like G2.
3. LD's WR1 and supported by a loud CHN crowd and at the prime age of 24; LHI 's just on the come back trail and at 28, certainly not prime.
This match makes an excellent coaching tool on "how to hold on ,against all odds,while driving your physically superior opponent to crumble mentally into defeat."
Congrats, LHI! You are the rightful and true champion of KO08.

morphy

01-31-2008, 02:32 AM

It's funny reading some of the things and makes me wonder if the person who wrote it are even aware of their own bias. Case in point:
He then was focussed on outside help (umpire?) to help him win while LHI was focussed on his badminton. .
I don't for a min think any of the players were focused on "outside (unpire?) help" to win the match.
But for the sake of argument, lets say it was the case. For the player who was counting on outside help, won't he then try his best to initiate a shot that would result in a controversial call? Therefore he'll hit it so close to the line, might even be really out, linesperson rules unfavorably by calling it out (correct or incorrect doesn't matter as the player is going to count on umpire to overule), player immediately complains to umpire, expecting a overule. Really if I was counting on the umpire I'm not going to wait for the other player...how do I know if he is not going to hit one that's 1 feet in...even if I complain to the ump will do no good, it has to be at least close to be controversial.

So going by your premise, and the way things played out in the video, it was LHI that was actually counting on outside help not LD.
So umm next time try not to make your bias so obvious The moment I read something that biased I just stop, no point reading anymore..:p

V3i HoN6

01-31-2008, 03:40 AM

ye333

01-31-2008, 07:44 AM

My point is not this, I am trying to show how untrue the details in a report can be. The scenes described in the report are mostly made up and never happened in reality. :eek:

I was there...I think I explained this in other thread.....TH knew that shuttle was IN and chose to keep quiet and Park protested and umpire still asked the linesmen, and he insisted that the shuttle was out...Park continues playing....
I mentioned that mistake made by linesmen and TH was lucky to get 2nd match otherwise Park had a chance to win the game...

huangkwokhau

01-31-2008, 11:57 AM

My point is not this, I am trying to show how untrue the details in a report can be. The scenes described in the report are mostly made up and never happened in reality. :eek:
I know what you mean...I am just tyring to explain a bit to support your statement.....:D Park was upset for a minute then he kept playing.....

pjswift

01-31-2008, 10:48 PM

It's funny reading some of the things and makes me wonder if the person who wrote it are even aware of their own bias. Case in point:

I don't for a min think any of the players were focused on "outside (unpire?) help" to win the match.
But for the sake of argument, lets say it was the case. For the player who was counting on outside help, won't he then try his best to initiate a shot that would result in a controversial call? Therefore he'll hit it so close to the line, might even be really out, linesperson rules unfavorably by calling it out (correct or incorrect doesn't matter as the player is going to count on umpire to overule), player immediately complains to umpire, expecting a overule. Really if I was counting on the umpire I'm not going to wait for the other player...how do I know if he is not going to hit one that's 1 feet in...even if I complain to the ump will do no good, it has to be at least close to be controversial.

So going by your premise, and the way things played out in the video, it was LHI that was actually counting on outside help not LD.
So umm next time try not to make your bias so obvious The moment I read something that biased I just stop, no point reading anymore..:p
It's neat to have your different opinion and good imagination;it helps make this forum richer.
Those are my observations, more to salute LHI. Including LD as contrast is crucial because I don't think LHI would have won if LD did not collapse mentally(evident from his quick emotional swing from delight at having 2 match points to despair when the umpire did not meet his wish)
So much sympathy and slam have been posted on LD, yet we forgot that it's LHI who's key to turning this match into a thriller.What's your take on him?
(By the way,never believe your attention or interest(or bypass) in my post can be so important that you need to broadcast it;that may indirectly reflect conceit.)

morphy

01-31-2008, 11:06 PM

Its fine to have passionate support for certain players, I think we all do have players we tend to admire more than others. At the same time as far as that particular match was concerned I don't think its necessary to diminish one player in order to alleviate the other. Without question, they're BOTH amazing players despite what anyone may think of their personality or character. And neither of them needed external help. They are both that good that they don't need to. They both gave a superb display of badminton skills and to come out on top would've taken supreme effort. It was just a shame that the match was marred with controversy.

What do I think of LHI?
lets say I have a short list of players that I put as "must see" whenever they are taking part in a tournament. LD has always been in it, not a big fan of his antics but I admire his play and his matches are never boring. I can put LHI now on that short list too as well after the KO08 despite all the controversy.

Winston_T

02-01-2008, 02:02 AM

I'm not happy that Lin Dan lost. I will be happy if Lin Dan lost under normal circumstances because I don't like the domination of the sport... Not good for the sport... You see WD, how everybody loses interest.

what's ur reaction when ur fav player lose like this way?

Winston_T

02-01-2008, 02:07 AM

Why do you think so?
LD played well but LHI played superior.LD was no match for LHI mentally.When LD reached 20-18 , he did a victory- for-sure skip because he was confident of closing with 2 match points.When he couldn't , he mentally collapsed.He then was focussed on outside help (umpire?) to help him win while LHI was focussed on his badminton. That's why when the umpire didn't help him , LD boomeranged whereas LHI subtly clenched his fist.Thereafter all LHI needed to do was to keep the shuttle in play and wait for LD to commit errors.
LHI was awesome in his defeat of LD for 3 reasons:
1. LD was twice as fresh physically (LD's first tournament vs LHI's second tournament).On that basis alone and with purportedly better skills, LD should be able to take care of LHI confidently.
2. LHI was the player who was victimised but he hid it well. The umpire acted largely as LD's free protection insurance (because LD alerted him?),targetting to overrule line judges at all opportunities. That's ok except for one good call that was overruled wrongly.Had that call been rightly awarded to LHI, LHI would have won G3 with a score like G2.
3. LD's WR1 and supported by a loud CHN crowd and at the prime age of 24; LHI 's just on the come back trail and at 28, certainly not prime.
This match makes an excellent coaching tool on "how to hold on ,against all odds,while driving your physically superior opponent to crumble mentally into defeat."
Congrats, LHI! You are the rightful and true champion of KO08.

BWF's official website, Badzine, Christian Hadinata agreed that LD is a "true champion" of KO 08.

Winston_T

02-01-2008, 02:13 AM

I do not think that LD will be in German Open........tough for LD to play 3 tournaments eventhough he has to defend his point along with Chen Jin.

last year LD played 3 tourneys in a row (Ger, AE, Swiss), unfortunately he got an injured during SF match against Simon, that avoid him to whitewash all 3 titles in Europe's continent.
if he hadn't got an injured, he can be the first player ever in the world that can win 3 titles in just 3 weeks!

Winston_T

02-01-2008, 02:15 AM

Is good to see Lin Dan went to the podium even with the unfair defeat, it shows he has grown more mature. Is unfortunate Lin had to lose in such manner but take this as a learning ground and be a better player.

agree! be a better player inside and outside the arena!

ctjcad

02-01-2008, 02:23 AM

...They both gave a superb display of badminton skills and to come out on top would've taken supreme effort. It was just a shame that the match was marred with controversy...
...and totally concur as I, personally, didn't mind who won!:cool:...Hmm, any way we can delete/edit the controversial & unfortunate portion of that 3rd game??:confused::o:(..That's like trying to watch a beautifully made movie, only to be ruined by some bad lines of dialogue towards the end...:p

Winston_T

02-01-2008, 02:29 AM

Take a bad call in your favour since this is KO08 Open cos' next time, the bad call will be against you in CO08 Open, that seems logical.
I have not seen any players reversing bad calls in a championship game, esp with the score so close at duece. There is too much at stack in a championship match.
Baddy has become a game of win at all costs. Nowadays, even game fixing is entered into strategic planning, so why not bad calls, name calling (break legs) to mentally affect your opponents.
I recall LCW did reverse a bad call as you said, but that game is not a championship match and I cannot recall LCW was trailing at all in that game.
Sad as it is, baddy creates more excitement and news worthy in this LD-LM incidence that the great game itself.

CM & CO 07 was an "excuse" for CHN umpires & linejudges coz CHN players / pairs need as many points as they can, so they can qualify into OG. LYB wont the case of XXZ and XXF in OG 04 will happen again, that's why there is so many calls favoured to local players.

to be honest, it's BWF's fault whom only allow max 3 players / pairs in top 4 to qualify to OG. if there is no rule about it, no need for CHN to make a controversy, coz CHN players is in "comfort and safety zone" to qualify.

can u prove that every time CHN host the open tourneys or SS always ended with controversy? how about CO 2000 - 06, CM 05 & 06? there is a complaint about linejudges?

kwun

02-01-2008, 02:32 AM

Winston_T

02-01-2008, 02:38 AM

lee hyun ll is playing skills.....LD just smash/tap...thats all Ld can play

wtf are you talking about? it takes skills to construct points and force opportunities for attacking play - no one does that better than lin dan. you have no clue.

what about 21-4, 17 pts gap.
if LD haven't skills to play, how he can "destroy" LHI in the first game?
LD scores 65 pts, LHI only 52 (minus several bad calls). who is the best?

badMania

02-01-2008, 02:39 AM

so what's your point? are you saying then the bad calls in CM/CO are justified? if someone make that conclusion, i will be really surprised as well as disappointed.

I think that's his conclusion.
Bad calls in CM & CO07 were justified.
Reason: LYB needs his players to gain as much Olympic Points as possible :D

Similarly, the withdrawals and walkovers in both events were justified (according to LYB himself, as written in the Chinese Press).
Reason: for the sake of China's representatives in Olympics. Country's objectives are more important than individual players' gain or loss: to get a "group" advantage (集团优势）, all out against other countries (一致对外).

Winston_T

02-01-2008, 02:45 AM

so what's your point? are you saying then the bad calls in CM/CO are justified? if someone make that conclusion, i will be really surprised as well as disappointed.

in CM & CO 07, they need pts to qualify to OG 08, so there are "several" wrong calls, but CM & CO 08 will be held after OG, so it will be free from bad calls:D

badMania

02-01-2008, 02:47 AM

in CM & CO 07, they need pts to qualify to OG 08, so there are "several" wrong calls, but CM & CO 08 will be held after OG, so it will be free from bad calls:D

What a reply...LOL....

See kwun, look's like my hunch is correct.

Winston_T

02-01-2008, 02:50 AM

I think that's his conclusion.
Bad calls in CM & CO07 were justified.
Reason: LYB needs his players to gain as much Olympic Points as possible :D

Similarly, the withdrawals and walkovers in both events were justified (according to LYB himself, as written in the Chinese Press).
Reason: for the sake of China's representatives in Olympics. Country's objectives are more important than individual players' gain or loss: to get a "group" advantage (集团优势）, all out against other countries (一致对外).

not only CHN, other countries also.
remember ZJW in WC 06? 11 services fault on him. european umpires "helps" the euro pairs.

Ina 06:
BCL vs Simon
CY vs TH (1 bad call against CY, plus 1 GOOD CHAT between TH and the line judges, that change the decision under the "pressure" from the fanatic spectators, from "in" to "out"
BCL vs TH (at least 2 wrong calls in the end of 2nd game)

badMania

02-01-2008, 02:52 AM

not only CHN, other countries also.
remember ZJW in WC 06? 11 services fault on him. european umpires "helps" the euro pairs.

Calm down dude....it should be "ZYW" and "her". :o

It's interesting to see how you focuses only on the China players.

kwun

02-01-2008, 02:57 AM

in CM & CO 07, they need pts to qualify to OG 08, so there are "several" wrong calls, but CM & CO 08 will be held after OG, so it will be free from bad calls:D

i guess we can similarly justify the bad calls in KO2008 then. LHI also need some points to qualify for the OG. haha.

badMania

02-01-2008, 03:00 AM

i guess we can similarly justify the bad calls in KO2008 then. LHI also need some points to qualify for the OG. haha.

Good one kwun :D

Rest assured, next year, we are back to normal with a free-of-bias Korea Open 2009.

It's beyond belief really how some ppl would justify Lin Dan's aggression and the linecalls in China Open 2007.

Ppl just keep on complaining about the bad linecalls, when in fact, during the MS Final match, I believe that the umpire was very fair, ruling out 3 calls in favor of Lin Dan. Only the last controversial call can be deemed as dubious, and we can't blame the umpire because he couldn't see that shot clearly. Still, the standard of umpiring that day was surely better than those we see in the China Open 2007, when the umpire himself/herself was from China :eek:

Winston_T

02-01-2008, 03:07 AM

Calm down dude....it should be "ZYW" and "her". :o

It's interesting to see how you focuses only on the China players.

coz I'm from China. just like malaysian fans that are very concern about their players;)

Winston_T

02-01-2008, 03:13 AM

Still, the standard of umpiring that day was surely better than those we see in the China Open 2007, when the umpire himself/herself was from China :eek:

it isn't matter where the umpires comes from, but the decision that they made! yes, so many wrong calls during CO 07, but in KO 08, it was too much.

badMania

02-01-2008, 03:18 AM

it isn't matter where the umpires comes from, but the decision that they made! yes, so many wrong calls during CO 07, but in KO 08, it was too much.

LOL...another "solid" reply from this guy here! Yes....so many wrong calls during the CO 07, but, its okaay.....they were justified. In KO 08, its not justified...because Lin Dan lost?

I have to really take my hats off :o!

Joe P

02-01-2008, 03:41 AM

:cool: LOL... yeah, as long as only fans like him have this attitude. For the sake of the game, I hope NO other countries will start/continue adopting this biased officiating. It really does ruin the game and enjoyment for us fans. :mad:

eaglehelang

02-01-2008, 04:23 AM

it isn't matter where the umpires comes from, but the decision that they made! yes, so many wrong calls during CO 07, but in KO 08, it was too much.

There's a vid in the Video Sharing thread that counted how many bad line calls & faults in CO 2007 = 4 or 5. NONE were overruled by umpire. That caused lost of points for LCW. To avoid bias, umpire should not be same country with any player playing.

In KO 2008, 4 bad line calls, 3 over ruled by umpire in LD's favour. Only one was not. Compare no of pts LD lost & LCW lost. But that's discussion is for other threads.

Badmania, I was laughing away too when I read this guy's post... and they say we're bias...hmmm

LHI, played well, was calm in the midst of the chaos his coach was involved... good for him

Jessica

02-01-2008, 04:41 AM

CM & CO 07 was an "excuse" for CHN umpires & linejudges coz CHN players / pairs need as many points as they can, so they can qualify into OG. LYB wont the case of XXZ and XXF in OG 04 will happen again, that's why there is so many calls favoured to local players.

to be honest, it's BWF's fault whom only allow max 3 players / pairs in top 4 to qualify to OG. if there is no rule about it, no need for CHN to make a controversy, coz CHN players is in "comfort and safety zone" to qualify.

can u prove that every time CHN host the open tourneys or SS always ended with controversy? how about CO 2000 - 06, CM 05 & 06? there is a complaint about linejudges?
OMG...I have never see such a person like you...You can turn around all the wrong things to right things..What the nonsense are you talking about..Ok,then every Super Series can have unfair linescall this year for the sake of the players to gain the ranking points..So,LYB is actually very noble by doing like this to help his own country players???

X Ball

02-01-2008, 05:50 AM

LOL...another "solid" reply from this guy here! Yes....so many wrong calls during the CO 07, but, its okaay.....they were justified. In KO 08, its not justified...because Lin Dan lost?

I have to really take my hats off :o!

Ditto, double that !:D

ants

02-01-2008, 06:38 AM

I am totally Bambozelled by the respond... what the %*%# am i thinking about?

badMania

02-01-2008, 07:05 AM

I am totally Bambozelled by the respond... what the %*%# am i thinking about?

Which response are u referring to? :D

ants

02-01-2008, 06:05 PM

You know i know.. i think everyone knows... i mean those that doesnt make sense.. like mine. :D

xsakurax

02-01-2008, 07:16 PM

what about 21-4, 17 pts gap.
if LD haven't skills to play, how he can "destroy" LHI in the first game?
LD scores 65 pts, LHI only 52 (minus several bad calls). who is the best?

haiz u cannot decide who the best only by looking at the first set......sometimes even if u won easily in the first set it does not mean that u will win the match.Many players who won easily in first set will also lose the game.Anything can happen in badminton u know :cool:
It depends on who is the better player on that day as well as luck too.It is just my opinion =X

badMania

02-01-2008, 07:26 PM

haiz u cannot decide who the best only by looking at the first set......sometimes even if u won easily in the first set it does not mean that u will win the match.Many players who won easily in first set will also lose the game.Anything can happen in badminton u know :cool:
It depends on who is the better player on that day as well as luck too.It is just my opinion =X

Indeed, anything can happen in a match. Lin Dan lost several times to Park Sung Hwan and also to other lower ranked opponents like Boonsak Ponsana in the Singapore Open 2007. Does this imply that those players are better than Lin Dan? :cool:

vching

02-01-2008, 09:24 PM

it isn't matter where the umpires comes from, but the decision that they made! yes, so many wrong calls during CO 07, but in KO 08, it was too much.

Although I promised myself to stay out to prevent myself from being banned, but after reading your post, I cannot stand it. What do you mean in KO it is to much? So the bad line calls in CO were justified? And the KO's were not? What logic are we using here?:mad::mad::mad:

CM & CO 07 was an "excuse" for CHN umpires & linejudges coz CHN players / pairs need as many points as they can, so they can qualify into OG. LYB wont the case of XXZ and XXF in OG 04 will happen again, that's why there is so many calls favoured to local players.

to be honest, it's BWF's fault whom only allow max 3 players / pairs in top 4 to qualify to OG. if there is no rule about it, no need for CHN to make a controversy, coz CHN players is in "comfort and safety zone" to qualify.

can u prove that every time CHN host the open tourneys or SS always ended with controversy? how about CO 2000 - 06, CM 05 & 06? there is a complaint about linejudges?

Don't you turn around and say its BWF's fault! So just because BWF imposes a rule to limit the number of entrants per country, China has to cheat? And I thought your logic in your prior post was bad :mad::mad::mad: