Li Mao's reply on the Li Mao-Lin Dan indident

http://sports.sina.com.cn/o/2008-01-28/10183447329.shtml

李矛回应与林丹冲突因何而起 将投诉匪夷所思一幕
http://sports.sina.com.cn 2008年01月28日10:18 体坛周报

　　“李林冲突”因何而起？记者昨晚采访到事件主角之一的李矛，他介绍了冲突的前因后果。
　　当时林丹与李炫一的决胜局战至21平。李炫一一次劈杀，林丹判断出界便放弃接球，结果司线员判为界内。 看到这一判罚，林丹马上转向主裁方向，面露不满。我随即站了起来，向裁判员做出有效手势。
When the score tied at 21-all, LD thought that the cross-court smash by LHI sailed wide. But the line judge called it in, LD turned to the umpire to protest. I stood up and signalled to the umpire that it was a correct call.

　　这场比赛的主裁来自捷克，应该说他这场比赛执法得相当公平，此前林丹先后三次对司线员的判罚有意见，结 果都被主裁改判。这个球，我当时位于李炫一的左侧，并没有看得清球的落点，但为了向主裁施加一定压力，便马 上站了起来。
The umpire is from Czech, who has overruled 3 previous incorrect calls by the line judges. I was sitting at the left side of the court, so I wasn't sure about the call but I stood up to apply some pressure to the umpire.

　　出乎我意料的是，林冲见到这一幕，居然举起球拍向我扔来，所幸球拍在我与主裁之间飞过，没有碰到任何人 落地。说真话，我执教这么年来，还从未见到这么没有修养，没有道德的运动员，气得我举起手指着他：“是不是 想打我？”争论间，中国男单主教练钟波奔上前，推了我一把，我回了他一把。这时主裁及时赶到我俩面前，没有 让事态继续扩大，当时赛场显得很凌乱。
Out of my surprise, LD threw his racquet in my direction but it landed on the floor between the umpire and me. Being coach for so many years, I have never seen such a poor mannered player, I was really pissed off that I was shouting while pointing at him, "Do you want to hit me?" In the midst of the arguement, the Chinese coach ZB came in and pushed me, and I pushed him back. The umpire immediately came in and prevented it from going worse. The situation was in a mess at the moment.

　　赛场恢复平静后，主裁将林丹叫到面前，向他出示黄牌，同时作出司线员判罚有效的手势。比赛又恢复进行。 当李炫一以25：23获得胜利后，我飞跑到场内与李炫一拥抱祝贺，然后就离开了赛场，此后没再碰到林丹他们 。
As soon as the match resumed, the umpire asked LD to come forward and issued him a yellow card. After LHI won the match, I rushed to the court and celebrated with him but I didn't LD after that.

　　今天李炫一夺得复出后的第一个国际冠军，我非常高兴。当然，赛场出现匪夷所思的一幕，也让我十分遗憾。 对林丹这个人，我不再想提了，最后要说的是，韩国羽协准备把他袭击我的情况向世界羽联交涉。
I am happy about LHI's win but upset by this incident (throwing the racquet).
I don't want to talk about LD any more and will let Korea Badminton Association to report it to BWF.

It will take a while for BWF to review and call both of them for hearing.....
I think Korean organizer needs to be reviewed also as they had been warned about their line judges...may be BWF need to drop Korea from Super series to Gold grandprix....

yeah, even the danes were complaining about the calls, it seems that this is an epidemic sweeping through our beloved sport.

if so.....may be BWF need to drop China and HK from Super series to grandprix....

if so.....may be BWF need to drop China and HK from Super series to grandprix....
HKO is clean...may be we need one china SS instead of 2 now....
most players rated KO is the worst linesmen....no offence!!
Our Famous XD coach, Richard Manaiky slapped one of Korean line judges before( does not mean it is right to slap someone) because he could not stand it anymore....Yang Yang was made crying by linesmen too....thats the facts!!

http://sports.sina.com.cn 2008年01月28日18:23 新浪体育
　　新浪体育讯　北京时间1月28日消息，昨天的韩国羽毛球超级赛上，林丹与韩国队教练李矛发生了剧烈的冲 突，两人之间到底发生了什么？林丹在接受专访时给出了自己的解释。
　　“首先他(李矛)的语言攻击我了，说‘什么球都判给你’，好象(裁判)在照顾我一样。”林丹说道，“第 二就是我觉得你们都赖到这种手段了，还能这么理直气壮的。”
　　李矛的话激怒了林丹，林丹把拍子愤怒地砸向他的方向，“当时我和他离得很远，我感到很不高兴，觉得他怎 么能这样。”林丹说道，“就算你想赖走金牌，但这是你的主场，很多因素是我控制不了的。但你不能那么理直气 壮，而且用语言攻击我。”
　　林丹表示李矛的“语言攻击”并不是人身攻击，但却损害了骄傲的超级丹的自尊心，因为李矛直接指责他是“ 依靠”裁判才能赢球。“他没有直接骂我，但他的表达，话语带的情绪，就是要和中国队对抗，而且还带着一些脏 话。”林丹说道。不过林丹也承认自己当时确实情绪有点失控：“我的情绪非常激动，非常想冷静下来，但是很难 。”
　　林丹还回忆到李矛在比赛过程中就不断干涉裁判的判罚，试图给自己制造压力。“比赛期间李矛一直在我身后 对判罚提出异议。”林丹说道。那么决胜局最后阶段的那个判罚，以及李矛的言语，都让林丹彻底愤 怒了。
　　(新?

http://sports.sina.com.cn 2008年01月28日17:58 新浪体育
　　新浪体育讯　林丹怒了！在北京时间昨天结束的韩国羽毛球公开赛上，1比2不敌东道主李炫一的中国头号球 星险些与对手的教练、前中国男队主帅李矛动武！
　　事发在比赛决胜局双方战至21比21平手时，当时林丹判断李炫一的后场扣杀出界而没有接球，结果这个疑 似界外球被主裁判判成了“界内”，林丹先是和裁判进行了理论，后来有些出人意料的是，林丹又与李矛发生了争 吵，两人几乎要打架，林丹把拍子愤怒地扔向李矛的方向，幸亏旁人将他们分开，避免现场纠纷进一 步升级。
　　按理说羽毛球比赛中的误判、错判并不鲜见，运动员一般就是向裁判表示不满，最最严重的无非也就是象陶菲 克那样以罢赛作为抗议罢了，那么昨天为什么会出现林丹怒向曾经的中国队教练李矛这一幕呢。
　　李矛在接受国内某专业媒体采访时表示，“那个球，我当时位于李炫一的左侧，并没有看得清球的落点，但为 了向主裁施加一定压力，便马上站了起来。出乎我意料的是，林冲见到这一幕，居然举起球拍向我扔来，所幸球拍 在我与主裁之间飞过，没有碰到任何人落地。说真话，我执教这么年来，还从未见到这么没有修养，没有道德的运 动员，气得我举起手指着他：‘是不是想打我？’争论间，中国男单主教练钟波奔上前，推了我一把，我回了他一 把。”
　　据现场知情人透露，让林丹最终情绪失控的真正内幕恐怕并非这个争议球，而是李矛在林丹和裁判理论之后的 两句话。由于现场比赛嘈杂，所以能听到大致李矛说话的内容是，“什么球都判给你，那这比赛还打什么？”而正 是这样的一句话，彻底让林丹愤怒了。
　　众所周知，这次韩国赛是林丹2008年参加的首个重大比赛，从某种意义上可以说是为了北京 奥运 (http://2008.sina.com.cn/)会抢占心理优势先机的比赛，林丹无疑很渴望拿下韩国公开赛冠军头衔为2008年争取开门红。而作为中国男 单的主要对手之一，李炫一一方自然不想在主场就让林丹抢走风头，种种因素让这种焦点之战充满着 火药味收场。
　　熟悉中国羽毛球队历史的球迷应该知道，曾经担任过中国羽毛球男队教练的李矛很有性格，当年曾经和中国队 总教练李永波闹得非常僵，此后在马拉西亚执教的他又因为种种矛盾而不得不又辗转到了韩国。据了解，虽然出身 中国羽毛球队，但是李矛跟现在很多中国队教练队员关系都相当一般，很多比赛场合遇到的时候，最多就是点点头 打个招呼而已。

another one..
http://sports.sina.com.cn 2008年01月28日17:50 新浪体育
　　新浪体育讯　昨天结束的韩国羽毛球超级赛男单决赛中，中国男一号林丹与韩国队中国籍教练李矛之间发生的 争执成为热议的焦点事件。由于电视没有直播这场比赛，大家只能根据零星的体育新闻电视画面来推测争执发生的 情况。中国羽毛球队的队员和教练已于今天中午12时回到北京，今天下午中国羽毛球队教练、也是当时为林丹做 现场指导的钟波聊起了当时现场发生的情况。
　　问：钟指导，能不能讲讲当时现场的情况？
　　钟波：这场比赛打得很激烈，我们之前也充分估计到了各种困难，包括风向、场地和裁判因素。可以说我们对 裁判的因素是有充分的思想准备的，当时的情况也是因为司线的误判，整场比赛主裁改判了三个出界 球，还有1-2次没有改判。
　　林丹在第一局的时候打得很出色，落后的情况下轻松拿下第一局。交换场地后，林丹率先得分。可能是因为上 火的原因，林丹突然流鼻血了，我给林丹递上毛巾、队医也上来了，可能这个小事故也干扰了林丹的情绪，让他有 点分神，李炫一抓住这个机会9-1领先。技术暂停后，林丹及时调整了状态，将比分反超，而且拿到了赛点，李炫一也打得很顽强，林丹两次拿到 赛点都被他扳回，23-21扳平比分。
　　第三局打到21平的时候，李炫一杀直线在林丹的正手区域出界，但司线示意没有出线，林丹向主裁和对手提 出质疑，但主裁没有改判。此时，为李炫一做现场指导的李矛从教练席上站起来，向前走了两步，对着林丹指指点 点，情绪激动地说了一些什么，林丹才会有如此激烈的发应，所以对着李矛将手中的拍子扔了出去。 事件持续了2-3分钟，林丹重新投入情绪非常急躁，李炫一对他的打法又有些不适应，林丹追了两分再次拿到了赛点，但是急躁 让他最终丢掉了比赛。除了技术、战术，运气的成分也很重要，关键的一个滚网球，李炫一竟然挑起 一个后场球。
　　问：当时李矛到底说了什么？您听见了么？
　　钟波：他的语速很快，看得出他情绪激动，几近疯狂的状态。至于说了什么我真的没有听清楚，之后我和林丹 都不愿意再提这件事情。但是有一点可以肯定，一定是他说的话激怒了林丹，林丹固然有不对的地方，李矛也有些 失态了。按照规则规定，现场指导的教练员是不允许离开座位的，先站起来的是他，向前走了两步先骂林丹的也是 他。
　　问：林丹和李矛发生冲突后您也冲了上去？
　　钟波：对，当时林丹把拍子向李矛扔了过去。当然距离大概有5、6米，林丹扔的拍子不可能砸到李矛。他骂 我的队员，我当然要上去和他理论理论了，这才有了两人之间的推搡。当然包括韩国其他的教练、当值裁判把我们 拉开了。
　　问：林丹扔的拍子是网上流传的照片上摔坏了那支么？
　　钟波：拍子没有摔坏，林丹还捡起拍子完成了后面的比赛。可能是因为输球，林丹赛后把自己的 拍子撅折了。
　　问：主裁判给了林丹一张黄牌？
　　钟波：对，林丹对着裁判的判罚没异议，在比赛很尊重裁判，也尊重裁判的判罚。这次冲突与裁 判无关。
　　问：听说李矛和韩国羽毛球协会将就此事向国际羽联上诉，中国队呢？
　　钟波：目前队伍刚回来，我也就此事向李永波总教练进行了简单的回报，队里对此还没有定论。我想中国羽毛 球队应该在仔细讨论后，给国际羽联一个说法。来自印尼的裁判长赛后并没有向中国队了解情况，国际羽联也尚无 任何反应。
　　问：林丹目前情绪如何？
　　钟波：从打完比赛到回来，林丹的情绪一直很正常。

sorry.. all in chinese.

http://sports.sina.com.cn 2008年01月28日18:23 新浪体育
　　新浪体育讯　北京时间1月28日消息，昨天的韩国羽毛球超级赛上，林丹与韩国队教练李矛发生了剧烈的冲 突，两人之间到底发生了什么？林丹在接受专访时给出了自己的解释。
　　“首先他(李矛)的语言攻击我了，说‘什么球都判给你’，好象(裁判)在照顾我一样。”林丹说道，“第 二就是我觉得你们都赖到这种手段了，还能这么理直气壮的。”
　　李矛的话激怒了林丹，林丹把拍子愤怒地砸向他的方向，“当时我和他离得很远，我感到很不高兴，觉得他怎 么能这样。”林丹说道，“就算你想赖走金牌，但这是你的主场，很多因素是我控制不了的。但你不能那么理直气 壮，而且用语言攻击我。”
　　林丹表示李矛的“语言攻击”并不是人身攻击，但却损害了骄傲的超级丹的自尊心，因为李矛直接指责他是“ 依靠”裁判才能赢球。“他没有直接骂我，但他的表达，话语带的情绪，就是要和中国队对抗，而且还带着一些脏 话。”林丹说道。不过林丹也承认自己当时确实情绪有点失控：“我的情绪非常激动，非常想冷静下来，但是很难 。”
　　林丹还回忆到李矛在比赛过程中就不断干涉裁判的判罚，试图给自己制造压力。“比赛期间李矛一直在我身后 对判罚提出异议。”林丹说道。那么决胜局最后阶段的那个判罚，以及李矛的言语，都让林丹彻底愤 怒了。
　　(新?

normally i would delete any non-english postings. but this is actually interesting as it talks about Lin Dan's point of view.

can someone translate?

oh yes, a translation would be greatly appreciated.

where's yannie when you need her?

:)

KWUN, it is almost 3 am....not sleeping yet??

most players rated KO is the worst linesmen....no offence!!


many misjudgement in korea was given back to player after complaint. however, in China none of it happened. obviously, China is the worst.

many misjudgement in korea was given back to player after complaint. however, in China none of it happened. obviously, China is the worst.
You are right in this case, as in Cheng Du and Guangzhou, all umpires are chinese and they faulted all non chinese's service and even receiving part.......but many players ( mostly European) still rated KO is the worst one...many it continues happening after many years...I think CHN just started last year...

You are right in this case, as in Cheng Du and Guangzhou, all umpires are chinese and they faulted all non chinese's service and even receiving part.......but many players ( mostly European) still rated KO is the worst one...many it continues happening after many years...I think CHN just started last year...

Korea has a history of bad line calling. Remember Taufik nearly walked out during the Asian games there a few years ago. If I remember correctly, the whole Indonesian delegation was ready to walk out as well. That time, IBF officials had to stand behind the linesmen to officiate for the reminder of taufik's match.

many misjudgement in korea was given back to player after complaint. however, in China none of it happened. obviously, China is the worst.So many judgements changed by the umpire is only something that has started this year. I think your conclusion is premature.;)

many misjudgement in korea was given back to player after complaint. however, in China none of it happened. obviously, China is the worst.


For year 2008 huangkwokhau is right. Let's wait and see this coming August. I hope AE08 would be better than MO08 in term of line judges.

Korea has a history of bad line calling. Remember Taufik nearly walked out during the Asian games there a few years ago. If I remember correctly, the whole Indonesian delegation was ready to walk out as well. That time, IBF officials had to stand behind the linesmen to officiate for the reminder of taufik's match.
Even our Yang Yang was crying....anyway...it is sad that Badminton has to go thru this way.....I just want badminton to be popular as tennis.....tough job for all of us......sigh!

http://sports.sina.com.cn 2008年01月28日18:23 新浪体育
　　新浪体育讯　北京时间1月28日消息，昨天的韩国羽毛球超级赛上，林丹与韩国队教练李矛发生了剧烈的冲 突，两人之间到底发生了什么？林丹在接受专访时给出了自己的解释。
　　“首先他(李矛)的语言攻击我了，说‘什么球都判给你’，好象(裁判)在照顾我一样。”林丹说道，“第 二就是我觉得你们都赖到这种手段了，还能这么理直气壮的。”
　　李矛的话激怒了林丹，林丹把拍子愤怒地砸向他的方向，“当时我和他离得很远，我感到很不高兴，觉得他怎 么能这样。”林丹说道，“就算你想赖走金牌，但这是你的主场，很多因素是我控制不了的。但你不能那么理直气 壮，而且用语言攻击我。”
　　林丹表示李矛的“语言攻击”并不是人身攻击，但却损害了骄傲的超级丹的自尊心，因为李矛直接指责他是“ 依靠”裁判才能赢球。“他没有直接骂我，但他的表达，话语带的情绪，就是要和中国队对抗，而且还带着一些脏 话。”林丹说道。不过林丹也承认自己当时确实情绪有点失控：“我的情绪非常激动，非常想冷静下来，但是很难 。”
　　林丹还回忆到李矛在比赛过程中就不断干涉裁判的判罚，试图给自己制造压力。“比赛期间李矛一直在我身后 对判罚提出异议。”林丹说道。那么决胜局最后阶段的那个判罚，以及李矛的言语，都让林丹彻底愤 怒了。
　　(新?
It was what Li Mao said to Lin Dan that made him emotionally out of control.

Li Mao shouted at Lin Dan, "How can all overrules in your favor", "and that's what (biased line calls) you guys (CHN) is good at, but still accusing others! ~!@#$%^&"

For year 2008 huangkwokhau is right. Let's wait and see this coming August. I hope AE08 would be better than MO08 in term of line judges.
Haiya...only 2008 I am right?:D:D how about 2007? :D:D

China, HK and Korea.....of these 3 CHN is the worst..LD was lucky enough to have 3 bad line calls overruled in favour of him....whn LCW was in CHN he wasnt that lucky...in the finals against BCL every time he was going to draw with BCL a bad line call happens....4 times....2 were at the net...umpire said he touched the net even though the replay showed that he didnt....and HK too...the shuttle was out right in front of the umpire and he called it in....

So many judgements changed by the umpire is only something that has started this year. I think your conclusion is premature.;)

it shows Korea is impoving, but China get worsen.

China, HK and Korea.....of these 3 CHN is the worst..LD was lucky enough to have 3 bad line calls overruled in favour of him....whn LCW was in CHN he wasnt that lucky...in the finals against BCL every time he was going to draw with BCL a bad line call happens....4 times....2 were at the net...umpire said he touched the net even though the replay showed that he didnt....and HK too...the shuttle was out right in front of the umpire and he called it in....Well, this is the first tournament I have seen with such active overrules. I want to see what happens in the coming tournaments.

If I were BWF, I would monitor closely certain tournaments - just like the threads in BF:). Certain tournaments needs to be watched and umpires be prepared to overrule.

I have seen in HK Open a few years ago the tournament referee overrule the umpire.

Sometimes line judges do get it wrong. Let's remember not every single bad call is always the line judges' bias. I personally think HK Open is not that bad having watched many matches. When line judges watch many mtaches, a certain, the concentration may waver. If I were to be a line judge. I would always volunteer for the service line.

Well, this is the first tournament I have seen with such active overrules. I want to see what happens in the coming tournaments.

If I were BWF, I would monitor closely certain tournaments - just like the threads in BF:). Certain tournaments needs to be watched and umpires be prepared to overrule.

I have seen in HK Open a few years ago the tournament referee overrule the umpire.

Sometimes line judges do get it wrong. Let's remember not every single bad call is always the line judges' bias. I personally think HK Open is not that bad having watched many matches. When line judges watch many mtaches, a certain, the concentration may waver. If I were to be a line judge. I would always volunteer for the service line.

they are like us, human being, n human make errors...

they are like us, human being, n human make errors...


........so we need machines? like a tv camera? :D

If it was LCW vs LD, who u think the line judges wud favor? haha
Perhaps LCW saw it coming and opt to give a w/o. Like that no need to be demoralised..:D

........so we need machines? like a tv camera?
:D:D:D, of coz...........

can someone translate?

This is Systran translated text.Not a perfect one.

on January 28, 2008 18:23 Sina sports
　　The Sina sports news Beijing standard time on January 28 the news,
on yesterday's South Korean badminton super match,
Lindane and South Korean team Coach the Li spear has had the fierce conflict,
what between two people have had? Lindane when accepts the interview has given own explanation.
　　“first he (Li spear) the language attacked me, said that `any ball sentenced for you ', probably (referee) was looking after me to be the same.”Lindane said that “second is I thought your Lai Daozhei planted the method, but could also such righteous.”
　　The Li Mao words enraged Lindane, Lindane have pounded angrily the bat to his direction, “at that time I and he left very much far, I felt that wasn't very happy, how thinks him to be able like this.”Lindane said that “you want to depend the gold medal, but this is your main floor, many factors were I cannot control. But you cannot be so righteous, moreover attacks me with the language.”
　　Lindane expressed that Li Mao “the language attack” is not the personal attack, but has actually harmed the arrogant super Dan's self-respect, because the Li spear accuses him is directly “the dependence” the referee can win. “he does not have to scold me directly, but his expression, the words belt's mood, is must resist with the Chinese team, moreover is also having some bad languages.”Lindane said. However Lindane also acknowledged himself at that time truly the mood a little out of control: “my mood is excited, wants to calm down, but is very difficult.”
　　Lindane also recalls to Li Mao unceasingly interferes the referee in the competition process ��� to punish, attempts to give itself to make the pressure.

so? whats the conclusion? any action? may the best man wins. The lucky one will be the local no matter where the tournament is held. So avoid attacking the lines next time. Be safe or be sorry. Thinking and composed player needed. Just a tip.

I Wish that Sony defeated LD in QTR and this might not happen....only IF...

I can see why LiMao intervened, he takes his job very seriously (too serious i think lol) and just like Rexy, he is very enthusiastic about this own players success.
As a coach seeing your player overruled 3 times is already painful, furthermore they were by the sideline instead of the rear court so they were clueless whether the shots were in or out...
I guess the 4th time when that happened of course, LiMao such an enthusiastic fella will jump out of his seat to protest....
Looking forward to hear what LD had to say about this entire ordeal, whether he felt sorry for his action

http://sports.sina.com.cn 2008年01月28日18:23 新浪体育
　　新浪体育讯　北京时间1月28日消息，昨天的韩国羽毛球超级赛上，林丹与韩国队教练李矛发生了剧烈的冲 突，两人之间到底发生了什么？林丹在接受专访时给出了自己的解释。
　　“首先他(李矛)的语言攻击我了，说‘什么球都判给你’，好象(裁判)在照顾我一样。”林丹说道，“第 二就是我觉得你们都赖到这种手段了，还能这么理直气壮的。”
　　李矛的话激怒了林丹，林丹把拍子愤怒地砸向他的方向，“当时我和他离得很远，我感到很不高兴，觉得他怎 么能这样。”林丹说道，“就算你想赖走金牌，但这是你的主场，很多因素是我控制不了的。但你不能那么理直气 壮，而且用语言攻击我。”
　　林丹表示李矛的“语言攻击”并不是人身攻击，但却损害了骄傲的超级丹的自尊心，因为李矛直接指责他是“ 依靠”裁判才能赢球。“他没有直接骂我，但他的表达，话语带的情绪，就是要和中国队对抗，而且还带着一些脏 话。”林丹说道。不过林丹也承认自己当时确实情绪有点失控：“我的情绪非常激动，非常想冷静下来，但是很难 。”
　　林丹还回忆到李矛在比赛过程中就不断干涉裁判的判罚，试图给自己制造压力。“比赛期间李矛一直在我身后 对判罚提出异议。”林丹说道。那么决胜局最后阶段的那个判罚，以及李矛的言语，都让林丹彻底愤 怒了。
　　(新?

Alright, I'll give this a crack...

"First of all, LM attacked me verbally, saying that everything is ruled in your favor" kinda like the umpire is on your side and gives you special treatment." Secondly, LD thought that how can you act so rightous when you resort to this kind of tactics.

LM's words angered LD, LD angrily threw his racket in his direction. "I was very far away from him at that time, I was very upset, how can he act like that?" LD said, "Even if you want to use trickery and steal the gold, but this is your home court, there are many factors that's out of my control. But you can't act all rightous and high and mighty and verbally attack me."

LD said LM's verbal attack didn't attack him personally, but it wounded super Dan's pride, because LM directly accused him of needing the umpire in order to win. "He didn't verbally attack me directly, but his facial expression, and tone of voice, is like he wants to stand up against the entire chinese team, mixed in with some dirty words." LD said, LD also admits he lost control of his emotions, "I was very emotional, I wanted to calm down but it was very difficult."

LD recalled LM questioned the umpire's calls many times during the match, trying to put pressure on him. "During the course of the match, LM questioned the umpire's judgement many times behind me." LD said. The judgement in the rubber set, along with the words of LM finally made LD very angry.

So this is bascially what the article is about Kwun.

Alright, I'll give this a crack...

"First of all, LM attacked me verbally, saying that everything is ruled in your favor" kinda like the umpire is on your side and gives you special treatment." Secondly, LD thought that how can you act so rightous when you resort to this kind of tactics.

LM's words angered LD, LD angrily threw his racket in his direction. "I was very far away from him at that time, I was very upset, how can he act like that?" LD said, "Even if you want to use trickery and steal the gold, but this is your home court, there are many factors that's out of my control. But you can't act all rightous and high and mighty and verbally attack me."

LD said LM's verbal attack didn't attack him personally, but it wounded super Dan's pride, because LM directly accused him of needing the umpire in order to win. "He didn't verbally attack me directly, but his facial expression, and tone of voice, is like he wants to stand up against the entire chinese team, mixed in with some dirty words." LD said, LD also admits he lost control of his emotions, "I was very emotional, I wanted to calm down but it was very difficult."

LD recalled LM questioned the umpire's calls many times during the match, trying to put pressure on him. "During the course of the match, LM questioned the umpire's judgement many times behind me." LD said. The judgement in the rubber set, along with the words of LM finally made LD very angry.

So this is bascially what the article is about Kwun.
So it all boils down to pride and face?
I think LD need to humble himself more

李矛 is translated as "Li spear"?? Haha....

"First of all, LM attacked me verbally, saying that everything is ruled in your favor" kinda like the umpire is on your side and gives you special treatment." Secondly, LD thought that how can you act so rightous when you resort to this kind of tactics.

LM's words angered LD, LD angrily threw his racket in his direction. "I was very far away from him at that time, I was very upset, how can he act like that?" LD said, "Even if you want to use trickery and steal the gold, but this is your home court, there are many factors that's out of my control. But you can't act all rightous and high and mighty and verbally attack me."

LD said LM's verbal attack didn't attack him personally, but it wounded super Dan's pride, because LM directly accused him of needing the umpire in order to win. "He didn't verbally attack me directly, but his facial expression, and tone of voice, is like he wants to stand up against the entire chinese team, mixed in with some dirty words." LD said, LD also admits he lost control of his emotions, "I was very emotional, I wanted to calm down but it was very difficult."

LD recalled LM questioned the umpire's calls many times during the match, trying to put pressure on him. "During the course of the match, LM questioned the umpire's judgement many times behind me." LD said. The judgement in the rubber set, along with the words of LM finally made LD very angry.
A very good translation. An A+ from me.:)

Alright, I'll give this a crack...

"First of all, LM attacked me verbally, saying that everything is ruled in your favor" kinda like the umpire is on your side and gives you special treatment." Secondly, LD thought that how can you act so rightous when you resort to this kind of tactics.

LM's words angered LD, LD angrily threw his racket in his direction. "I was very far away from him at that time, I was very upset, how can he act like that?" LD said, "Even if you want to use trickery and steal the gold, but this is your home court, there are many factors that's out of my control. But you can't act all rightous and high and mighty and verbally attack me."

LD said LM's verbal attack didn't attack him personally, but it wounded super Dan's pride, because LM directly accused him of needing the umpire in order to win. "He didn't verbally attack me directly, but his facial expression, and tone of voice, is like he wants to stand up against the entire chinese team, mixed in with some dirty words." LD said, LD also admits he lost control of his emotions, "I was very emotional, I wanted to calm down but it was very difficult."

LD recalled LM questioned the umpire's calls many times during the match, trying to put pressure on him. "During the course of the match, LM questioned the umpire's judgement many times behind me." LD said. The judgement in the rubber set, along with the words of LM finally made LD very angry.

So this is bascially what the article is about Kwun.

thanks jason ... time to ban coaches from courtside again?

Thanks, it's difficult reading simplified chinese, but ya, maybe it's time to ban coaches from courtside, I guess in this instance, this suitation would've been avoided. But that wouldn't solve the root of the problem though, we need some kind of instant replay on linecalls like tennis(you get a certain number of reviews and if you're wrong, it takes away from your review pool), but badminton just isn't popular enough right now for them to implement this kind of system.

1月28日晚，事件当事人林丹首次接受了采访，对争吵事件做出了回应。当记者问到林丹当时为什么无法控制自 己的情绪时，林丹坦言，他当时的确是气昏了头。对于裁判的判罚，他其实是可以接受的，因为他理解这是韩国的 主场，对于裁判的判罚是自己控制不了的。　　但是让自己最为恼火的是林丹认为“李矛不能对那个误判那么理直 气壮”，并且表示李矛用语言攻击了自己。在比赛中，李矛始终站在林丹的身后，对一些不利于李炫一的判罚喋喋 不休，令林丹很是恼火，最后终于抑制不住自己的火气，与李矛发生了正面冲突。
　　当记者问林丹，李矛究竟怎么说了自己，让他那么激动时，林丹表示：“即使不能说李矛的的确确骂了自己， 但当时他的情绪明确表达了一个中心意思，就是要和中国队对抗。而且他在言论中掺杂了一些脏话。更为滑稽的是 ，李矛甚至认为他们已经很迁就我了。”这才让林丹终于忍无可忍。事后，林丹也表示自己当时也很想冷静下来， 但是的确已经压不住自己的火气了，并表示了对球迷的歉意。

It happen on and on.It was BWF to blame as the system that they have is still far behind compare to others sports councils/federation like tennis & etc..etc....In reality players are the victim of the bias line-call which effect their focus mentally.

So punishment on player also will never solve this endless problem.
It was BWF to blame,even when Taufik just walk-off in 2006,BWF still don't have any solution as they are the people who got passion in badminton should hate this kind of handicap(bias line-call) in badminton world and rectified promptly. BWF still not professional yet,they are very slow pace federation,and not creative & innovative .Beijing OG is coming soon,but they are still what they are.Who is sitting up there.???

Alright, I'll give this a crack...

"First of all, LM attacked me verbally, saying that everything is ruled in your favor" kinda like the umpire is on your side and gives you special treatment." Secondly, LD thought that how can you act so rightous when you resort to this kind of tactics.

LM's words angered LD, LD angrily threw his racket in his direction. "I was very far away from him at that time, I was very upset, how can he act like that?" LD said, "Even if you want to use trickery and steal the gold, but this is your home court, there are many factors that's out of my control. But you can't act all rightous and high and mighty and verbally attack me."

LD said LM's verbal attack didn't attack him personally, but it wounded super Dan's pride, because LM directly accused him of needing the umpire in order to win. "He didn't verbally attack me directly, but his facial expression, and tone of voice, is like he wants to stand up against the entire chinese team, mixed in with some dirty words." LD said, LD also admits he lost control of his emotions, "I was very emotional, I wanted to calm down but it was very difficult."

LD recalled LM questioned the umpire's calls many times during the match, trying to put pressure on him. "During the course of the match, LM questioned the umpire's judgement many times behind me." LD said. The judgement in the rubber set, along with the words of LM finally made LD very angry.

So this is bascially what the article is about Kwun.

LD should apologize sincerely instead of pointing fingers to other parties. His behaviour in KO is totally unacceptable and will tarnish his image permanently.

Some simple translation about ZhongBo's interview.

问：当时李矛到底说了什么？您听见了么？
　　钟波：他的语速很快，看得出他情绪激动，几近疯狂的状态。至于说了什么我真的没有听清楚， 之后我和林丹 都不愿意再提这件事情。但是有一点可以肯定，一定是他说的话激怒了林丹，林丹固然有不对的地方 ，李矛也有些 失态了。按照规则规定，现场指导的教练员是不允许离开座位的，先站起来的是他，向前走了两步先骂林丹的也是 他。
Q: At that time, What did Li Mao say? Do you hear that?
Zhong Bo: He Speed quickly, from his emotional, he is almost in kinda of frenzied state. As for what I really did not listen clearly. But one thing is sure, it is what he said angered Lin. According to rules, the coacher of at the scene were not allowed to leave the seat, but he leave his seat first and then scolded LinDan.

BTW: I don't think it's all about pride. I think translation is misunderstand and the editor use a wrong word.

I think it should be dignity. Undoubtedly, dignity is very important for every person. What LM said to LD when he seat behind LD or toward to LD are all hurt LD‘s dignity. It will be same to LYI if Chinese coacher said those things to him. LM should not always chatter there.

Look, supposing if you are a player and playing in a very important and heated competetaion but other people said you did cheat in your competetation for win your opponent or you win the game depend on umper. What will you think? Particularly, LM said those thing in Mandarin which may want LD to hear that. So, LM did wrong first.

LD's wrong place was doing wrong action. I think he should argue to umper that LM's speaking disturbed deeply and ask the umper to face to LM. If I was LD, I will talk to umper and hope he can ask LM to shut up his mouth or ask him to go out of court.

hmmm... maybe dignity would've been a better choice of words, I was just translating quickly and pride is the first word that came to my mind... Yes, what LD did was wrong, but I can see how alot of us might react the same way as him if we're in the same suitation. I personally play alot of sports and play in a hockey league also, and if my opponent accuses me or my team of winning because of a referee I would be pretty upset also. LD is not a machine(I'm sure alot of us think he is) and does have human emotions so I guess LM pushed the right buttons that day and got to him.

maybe LM wants to get revenge for LCW by distracting LD....remember how LYB shouted "break his legs" to distract LCW?

maybe time for BWF to implement hawk eyes.....

hint.. hint.. anyone from IBF reading BC???

/Twobeer

hmmm... maybe dignity would've been a better choice of words, I was just translating quickly and pride is the first word that came to my mind... Yes, what LD did was wrong, but I can see how alot of us might react the same way as him if we're in the same suitation. I personally play alot of sports and play in a hockey league also, and if my opponent accuses me or my team of winning because of a referee I would be pretty upset also. LD is not a machine(I'm sure alot of us think he is) and does have human emotions so I guess LM pushed the right buttons that day and got to him.

In fact, Chinese editer use a wrong word which can also be translated to pride.

I think badminton should use more advanced technique to help umper and line call. Looking at Australian Open, they use computer to show whether a ball is out of line or not...People's eye can not see every ball clearly after all.

HKO is clean...may be we need one china SS instead of 2 now....
most players rated KO is the worst linesmen....no offence!!
Our Famous XD coach, Richard Manaiky slapped one of Korean line judges before( does not mean it is right to slap someone) because he could not stand it anymore....Yang Yang was made crying by linesmen too....thats the facts!!

Wah, got such a thing happen? When?? It's not a contact sport, didnt expect got so much drama.

maybe time for BWF to implement hawk eyes.....

hint.. hint.. anyone from IBF reading BC???

/Twobeer

I think I read somewhere that Kwun said it would be extremely difficult to implement the hawk eye since they would need at least 3 cameras from different angles to calculate the flight of the ball(bird in case of badminton), because the courts are big in tennis it is easier to do, but in badminton courts, a player could obstruct one of the cameras, and I guess also the cost of the hawk eye system, badminton isn't as popular as tennis.

I think I read somewhere that Kwun said it would be extremely difficult to implement the hawk eye since they would need at least 3 cameras from different angles to calculate the flight of the ball(bird in case of badminton), because the courts are big in tennis it is easier to do, but in badminton courts, a player could obstruct one of the cameras, and I guess also the cost of the hawk eye system, badminton isn't as popular as tennis.

Aha, yes u r right.It may be a new market in business. If somebody can find some new way to help BWF, they may be able to make huge money...hahaha;)

maybe time for BWF to implement hawk eyes.....

hint.. hint.. anyone from IBF reading BC???

/Twobeer

Mr Twobeer, no such 'drama' while you were at MO I suppose (which is good)? Not on the badminton courts at least...

Bingo! I guess the stakes are high now since the OG is coming. Whatever it takes to unsettle opponents thus gaining the advantage through whatever means. Break hands, head, rackets, legs and neck.:D

Let's observe the players. Chinese seems to be getting the limelight now days. There can be a reverse phsyc in place to stimulate such behaviour now. When comes to OG, they may said that they were heckled outside with such calls in KO. That's a good excuse for them to do it at home when the OG comes. So called revenge.:D

This BC has current intl players active in the forum correct? What's their thought and what are they doing about it?:D

Mouth watering indeed when the next SS comes in.:D

maybe LM wants to get revenge for LCW by distracting LD....remember how LYB shouted "break his legs" to distract LCW?

hint.. hint.. anyone from IBF reading BC???

/Twobeer
I doubt it. The guys from BWF might though.

Moving forward. Why not have 2 line judges? especially during qtrfinals onwards. If there is a dispute between the 2, let the umpire make the call. Simple? Does it cost much? Stakes are high now... Some of the linesman will be free anyway. Or get pure outside (non-home) linesmen. or better still get those idle umpire or officials to be linesmen. After all the linesmen are parttimers anyway. correct?

Taufik must be quietly feeling lucky he was not in lindan's shoes.

Taufik must be quietly feeling lucky he was not in lindan's shoes.
You mean Li Mao must be quietly feeling lucky Taufik was not in Lin Dan's shoes.

I don't know whether this statement is made from LYB mouth or not but if this is the truth,i don't think he should says like this since he also did the same in CO2007.I get this from Malaysia local chinapress.

有裁判幫忙
甚麼結果都可能


中國球隊在今年的兩站確實出現一些問題，不只是男單和女單，其他項目都有，不過這也是好事，問題發現早，我 們才能有足夠的時間解決。
中國隊在韓國僅收獲男雙和女雙兩金，大馬公開賽也是靠女雙和混雙兩金撐門面，這已是中國羽球隊外戰的最差戰 績。
總教練李永波受訪時無奈地說：“有裁判幫忙的話，什么樣的結果都正常。”隨后他解釋，在韓國站已不是第一次 遭遇這樣的局面，鮑春來與彼得蓋特的男單複賽，小鮑就曾遭到裁判的照顧。
謝杏芳因傷缺陣，老將張寧讓人大失所望，她在複賽敗給周蜜。 李永波沒有評價張寧的表現，但他認同外界的說法，即中國羽球隊確實出了問題。

LYB state that with the help of the umpire or linesman,anything will happen.He also said the same incidence also happen in the MS quarter final when Bao against Peter Gade which Bao specially treated by the umpire???I don't understand this.:confused::confused::confused:

Controversies in sports is like a car accident - you don't like it, but you can't help to slow down and look.

You mean Li Mao must be quietly feeling lucky Taufik was not in Lin Dan's shoes.
TH just learned this incident .....He did not read newspaper or internet.....told him that he was lucky not in KO.....:p

I think I read somewhere that Kwun said it would be extremely difficult to implement the hawk eye since they would need at least 3 cameras from different angles to calculate the flight of the ball(bird in case of badminton), because the courts are big in tennis it is easier to do, but in badminton courts, a player could obstruct one of the cameras, and I guess also the cost of the hawk eye system, badminton isn't as popular as tennis.

It dont really need to be that advanced.. cameras arent THAT expensive (and it could be a one time investment, moving them to the different SS events.). Also I dont think advanced system like hawk eye is really required. just good placed cameras by the line so the main judje could watch a rerun from good angles, if challenge occurs from players to possibly overrule the linejudge.

a similar system with 3 challenges per player per game would be great. A challenge made vere line judge is shown by reruns to be in error, would not count as a used challenge..

-Twobeer

It dont really need to be that advanced.. cameras arent THAT expensive (and it could be a one time investment, moving them to the different SS events.). Also I dont think advanced system like hawk eye is really required. just good placed cameras by the line so the main judje could watch a rerun from good angles, if challenge occurs from players to possibly overrule the linejudge.

a similar system with 3 challenges per player per game would be great. A challenge made vere line judge is shown by reruns to be in error, would not count as a used challenge..

-Twobeer

i totally agree with you. :) if hawk eye system is too expensive to implement, normal camera will do.

TH just learned this incident .....He did not read newspaper or internet.....told him that he was lucky not in KO.....:p

Haha wow... What was his reaction? :)

It dont really need to be that advanced.. cameras arent THAT expensive (and it could be a one time investment, moving them to the different SS events.). Also I dont think advanced system like hawk eye is really required. just good placed cameras by the line so the main judje could watch a rerun from good angles, if challenge occurs from players to possibly overrule the linejudge.

a similar system with 3 challenges per player per game would be great. A challenge made vere line judge is shown by reruns to be in error, would not count as a used challenge..

-Twobeeryes, regular tv cameras are suffice. The key is bwf allowing replays as final verdicts, I know, in hockey, football, and many other sports, referee uses instant replay to resolve questionable calls.

For Ex., Sina news watched the replay on the LHI smash and said it was out but disapproved LD's behavior. We have a low cost solution already but it require bwf to adopt its use.

As i have said many times over, the problem start at the top.

Any comment from Taufik? :D Or maybe he is too busy with his baby and just shrug the thing off.

TH just learned this incident .....He did not read newspaper or internet.....told him that he was lucky not in KO.....:p

i totally agree with you. :) if hawk eye system is too expensive to implement, normal camera will do.

You're right... :) the fans will understand too... Better use an 'old tech' normal camera rather than nothing... :D

Years ago, Korean linejudges were the only ones able to make Yang Yang cry... Yang Yang was so frustrated by them but he could not do anything to them... :p

In Indonesia, sometimes coaches will teach the youngsters by refereeing the match him/herself while intentionally giving bad very unfair calls to him/her pupil... When the pupil protest, the coach would say: "I'm doing this for your own good. You have to get a hold of your emotions within matches where the whole system is against you. The Koreans will certainly do this to you in the future, so if you want to be a top international player, you better learn it now! Play on!"

I'm not kidding. I witness this type of training session several times in Indonesia's badminton academies. The Koreans linejudges were mentioned all the time. Not so much regarding the Chinese linejudges, but as of late their reputation is getting worse... Indonesian linejudges nowadays are actually quite fair. I didn't witness the line-calling in Indonesia before the 1980s, so I can't testify to their quality back then... :o :p But today we're good. Just watch the Thomas Cup in Jakarta this year. ;)

As for Li Mao vs. Lin Dan... As far as I'm concerned, conflicts like this every now and then add spice to the badminton world... so it will be noticed more by the sport-watching public. :D So this event, in a way is actually good for a sport that badly needs attention, like badminton...

Note: in Indonesia's best circulated newspaper, Kompas. They only mentioned Lin Dan vs. LHI result in 2 or 3 sentences. :o Apparently LD vs. LM didn't do enough damage to each other yet to be covered by Indonesia's best newspaper... :p

use infra technology and capturing system like tennis lor...
i think the blind man also can restart the machine ... am i right..

for sure is good that make some topic on badminton.....promo a bit on this sport to the world....

First of all, Lin Dan is definitely not right in doing the things he did in this incident no matter the shuttle is really out or not or what Li Mao shouted to him. He should be punished for what he did. Lin Dan is a great player. As a countryman, I will always cheer for him when he fights for our country. But I do not really like his peronaliity a lot. He still has a lot to learn to become a more respectful sportsman. Look at Yang Yang, Zhao Jianhua, they are well known not only for their achievements and talents in badminton, but also their great personalities.
What Li Mao, as a korean team coach, did in this incident (trying to pressure the umpire and shout to Lin Dan) is understandable. He is a professional couch. He wants his player to win. But, on a second thought, Li Mao, you are chinese. Do not you think it is improper for you to show this kind of behavior when your charge plays against your countryman? I know, you were under a lot of pressure at that time, and you might have just lost you control too. I would think you would have regretted a little bit for what you did when you got back your cool.

oh by the way this is totally unrelated..
I was wondering does LiMao speak Korean? If so fluently?
Always made me wonder when i see him talking alone to the Korean players

Fellas (and gals), follow the link to the hawkeye/TV replay discussion thread:
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45665

i think li mao also took advantage of the situation. Knowing that neither the umpire, coach Ha understood mandarian, he can ramble off verbal attack on LD without fear. Even if LiMao has to explain his action to BWF, no one can verify what he said to LD. It is LM versus LD words.

i think li mao also took advantage of the situation. Knowing that neither the umpire, coach Ha understood mandarian, he can ramble off verbal attack on LD without fear. Even if LiMao has to explain his action to BWF, no one can verify what he said to LD. It is LM versus LD words.

Actually Li Mao v Chinese coaching staff. The heard every *&%&$@@## word Li Mao uttered :D

Actually Li Mao v Chinese coaching staff. The heard every *&%&$@@## word Li Mao uttered :Dnot the initial part that got LD fumed;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1P5Nbne9do
After watching this clip, I must say, I'm really disappointed in Li Mao.

What LD did was wrong, but LM was not right either. It's clear he pushed ZB hard; ZB was just trying to hold him - not push him away like LM said.

I guess you don't have fighting experience? :D

ZB tried to use his hand to hold LM back, that's a bad idea. If you try to stop two guys from fighting that way, you will definitely get involved. :D

From LM's point of view, ZB has definitely no right to "hold him back". Besides, there is "history" between LM and ZB so there is no way ZB can "hold" LM. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1P5Nbne9do
After watching this clip, I must say, I'm really disappointed in Li Mao.

What LD did was wrong, but LM was not right either. It's clear he pushed ZB hard; ZB was just trying to hold him - not push him away like LM said.

LD talked about it in the sohu interview I think? It's basically, "if all points are judged in your favor, then what's the point having the game actually played?". LD felt that this implies he got help from the umpire and felt insulted. :cool:

not the initial part that got LD fumed;)

LD talked about it in the sohu interview I think? It's basically, "if all points are judged in your favor, then what's the point having the game actually played?". LD felt that this implies he got help from the umpire and felt insulted. :cool:

If this was the case, why does Team CHN complain and expect "home advantage" when they play in CO? Isn't it the same thing?

If this was the case, why does Team CHN complain and expect "home advantage" when they play in CO? Isn't it the same thing?

What happed in 07 CO was really bad and unnecessary, as far as I can recall, it's the 1st time. And many Chinese admit the lineman were wrong and were doing a bad thing for China's image.

However, what happened in KO here is a regular thing, and those people are "proud"?

If this was the case, why does Team CHN complain and expect "home advantage" when they play in CO? Isn't it the same thing?

That is why I always think that the players are innocent, it is much likely that the "home advantage" is ordered by the local officials to produce result. Or prehaps it is just out of the bias from the line judges themselves.

It doesn't seems to me at least that LHI and BCL did not appreciated the home court advantages. (Where BCL was the clear winner and LHI quickly went over to LD's side for handshakes right after the match instead of heading to the coach bench).

That is why I always think that the players are innocent, it is much likely that the "home advantage" is ordered by the local officials to produce result. Or prehaps it is just out of the bias from the line judges themselves.

It doesn't seems to me at least that LHI and BCL did not appreciated the home court advantages. (Where BCL was the clear winner and LHI quickly went over to LD's side for handshakes right after the match instead of heading to the coach bench).

Interesting observation. It deed seem that LHI was genuinely sympathetic, almost apologetic, towards LD when they shook hands.

Perhaps Team CHN should seriously take LD's comments to heart and let the players play and decide the outcome. Mind you, LD has to be careful with what he says. He can't afford to bite the hand that feeds him. And you know that control freak LYB...

thanks jason ... time to ban coaches from courtside again?
Thanks, it's difficult reading simplified chinese, but ya, maybe it's time to ban coaches from courtside, I guess in this instance, this suitation would've been avoided...
...According to rules, the coacher of at the scene were not allowed to leave the seat, but he leave his seat first and then scolded LinDan.
..yeah i was wondering about that too & about whether such rule in BWF exists:confused:...Also, as i noticed in the video, i thought the coaches are supposed to sit right behind his/her own player(s)?? rather than on the side of the court??..:confused:
BTW: I don't think it's all about pride. I think translation is misunderstand and the editor use a wrong word.

I think it should be dignity. Undoubtedly, dignity is very important for every person. What LM said to LD when he seat behind LD or toward to LD are all hurt LD‘s dignity. It will be same to LYI if Chinese coacher said those things to him. LM should not always chatter there.

Look, supposing if you are a player and playing in a very important and heated competetaion but other people said you did cheat in your competetation for win your opponent or you win the game depend on umper. What will you think? Particularly, LM said those thing in Mandarin which may want LD to hear that. So, LM did wrong first.

LD's wrong place was doing wrong action. I think he should argue to umper that LM's speaking disturbed deeply and ask the umper to face to LM. If I was LD, I will talk to umper and hope he can ask LM to shut up his mouth or ask him to go out of court.
..so, if the report/news were actually meant to be translated as above, then my earlier intuition of both LiMao and LinDan being the responsible parties are true..hmmm:p
Controversies in sports is like a car accident - you don't like it, but you can't help to slow down and look.
..here in the U.S., at least, we call those people : looky-loos (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/looky-loo) ;)
...
Note: in Indonesia's best circulated newspaper, Kompas. They only mentioned Lin Dan vs. LHI result in 2 or 3 sentences. :o Apparently LD vs. LM didn't do enough damage to each other yet to be covered by Indonesia's best newspaper... :p
..only in BC, Krisna...Only in BC..:p :D;)
...
What Li Mao, as a korean team coach, did in this incident (trying to pressure the umpire and shout to Lin Dan) is understandable. He is a professional couch. He wants his player to win. But, on a second thought, Li Mao, you are chinese. Do not you think it is improper for you to show this kind of behavior when your charge plays against your countryman? I know, you were under a lot of pressure at that time, and you might have just lost you control too. I would think you would have regretted a little bit for what you did when you got back your cool.
..that's a pretty fair reason for why LiMao got up from his chair and went berserk at the umpire & LinDan..
oh by the way this is totally unrelated..
I was wondering does LiMao speak Korean? If so fluently?
Always made me wonder when i see him talking alone to the Korean players
..kwun's post probably can answer your inquiry (post #582):
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=771267

I can see why LiMao intervened, he takes his job very seriously (too serious i think lol) and just like Rexy, he is very enthusiastic about this own players success.
As a coach seeing your player overruled 3 times is already painful, furthermore they were by the sideline instead of the rear court so they were clueless whether the shots were in or out...
I guess the 4th time when that happened of course, LiMao such an enthusiastic fella will jump out of his seat to protest....
...(i missed adding this post) reason if indeed LiMao was affected as he did..

is li mao fluent in korean? and do any of you know what language lin dan used when went up to lee hyun il? :D

KBA already submitted their complain to BWF.
What LinDan did was WRONG. He as no right to thorw the racket over to his opponent's side. Li Mao did what he did as a coach. The Chinese Coaches understand this better as LYB also did the same thing, thatz why Zhong Bo was very careful about his statement and he also know it well too.
In terms of the pushing matter.. it is just a reaction. good thing there were no fists flying around. Li Mao used body language and some english to coach his players. He also have a in house translator for the team. He has been coaching the Korean's for some time. The players understand his body and sign language. Li Mao no doubt is very expressive. When he was coaching in Malaysia.. many things happened too.

No matter what LM has said, no matter the line judge is favoring LHI or now, LD just can't throw his racquet. This is not ice hockey. He needs to be suspended.

No matter what LM has said, no matter the line judge is favoring LHI or now, LD just can't throw his racquet. This is not ice hockey. He needs to be suspended.

I don't think players are allowed to throw their sticks in ice hockey either. ;)

..Li Mao did what he did as a coach. The Chinese Coaches understand this better as LYB also did the same thing, thatz why Zhong Bo was very careful about his statement and he also know it well too...
...even if LiMao did what he needed to do as a coach, was LiMao's actions and what he said justifiable in the heat of the moment, also?; even prior to him and LD going almost "mano-a-mano"??..:confused:..Wouldn't it be wiser for him to be calmed, sit still and avoid putting himself in the spotlight??:confused:
About the comment that "The CHN coaches understand this better as LYB also did the same thing", can you enlighten us w/some incidents which LYB might've also done the same?? Or are you referring to the "LYB's blurting out 'break-his-leg' comments with LCW"??...If it's the latter, IMO, they could be, arguably, the same; but, IMO, it's different in that in this case LiMao actually got up from his seat and got himself an exercise by getting himself involved in something he was not directly related with (e.g. yelling, screaming at the umpire->then @ LD)..

on the controversial comment by LYB's 'break his leg', technically, he was talking to BCL, and technically not to LCW. Correct me if I'm wrong but this occurred during a break period where a coach can give instruction to his player. There is no BWF law govern what LYB can say to his players. Therefore, there is a huge difference between LiMao confronting LD and LYB yelling at BCL.

I don't know whether this statement is made from LYB mouth or not but if this is the truth,i don't think he should says like this since he also did the same in CO2007.I get this from Malaysia local chinapress.

有裁判幫忙
甚麼結果都可能


中國球隊在今年的兩站確實出現一些問題，不只是男單和女單，其他項目都有，不過這也是好事，問題發現早，我 們才能有足夠的時間解決。
中國隊在韓國僅收獲男雙和女雙兩金，大馬公開賽也是靠女雙和混雙兩金撐門面，這已是中國羽球隊外戰的最差戰 績。
總教練李永波受訪時無奈地說：“有裁判幫忙的話，什么樣的結果都正常。”隨后他解釋，在韓國站已不是第一次 遭遇這樣的局面，鮑春來與彼得蓋特的男單複賽，小鮑就曾遭到裁判的照顧。
謝杏芳因傷缺陣，老將張寧讓人大失所望，她在複賽敗給周蜜。 李永波沒有評價張寧的表現，但他認同外界的說法，即中國羽球隊確實出了問題。

LYB state that with the help of the umpire or linesman,anything will happen.He also said the same incidence also happen in the MS quarter final when Bao against Peter Gade which Bao specially treated by the umpire???I don't understand this.:confused::confused::confused:

This was what LYB reportedly said in interview, not said constantly behind a players back while the player tried to play in a SS MSF or to the face of a player. LM was trying to provoke to LD with his words and actions. Please make a distinction in comparing a live situation to an interview afterward :eek:

...even if LiMao did what he needed to do as a coach, was LiMao's actions and what he said justifiable in the heat of the moment, also?; even prior to him and LD going almost "mano-a-mano"??..:confused:..Wouldn't it be wiser for him to be calmed, sit still and avoid putting himself in the spotlight??:confused:
About the comment that "The CHN coaches understand this better as LYB also did the same thing", can you enlighten us w/some incidents which LYB might've also done the same?? Or are you referring to the "LYB's blurting out 'break-his-leg' comments with LCW"??...If it's the latter, IMO, they could be, arguably, the same; but, IMO, it's different in that in this case LiMao actually got up from his seat and got himself an exercise by getting himself involved in something he was not directly related with (e.g. yelling, screaming at the umpire->then @ LD)..

Based on my reliable source... Li Mao INITIALLY did stood up from his chair. But he didnt walk to the umpire. He was still at his chair. Probably move one or 2 steps thats all. Later he did move more after LinDan threw his racket.

Besides the Break his leg comment from LYB. He did infact shouted to the umpires and even CHIEF Umpire during China Open and some others tournament. Of course it was not publicised since it was not shown on tv due to the matches was not shown on tv.

...even if LiMao did what he needed to do as a coach, was LiMao's actions and what he said justifiable in the heat of the moment, also?; even prior to him and LD going almost "mano-a-mano"??..:confused:..Wouldn't it be wiser for him to be calmed, sit still and avoid putting himself in the spotlight??:confused:
About the comment that "The CHN coaches understand this better as LYB also did the same thing", can you enlighten us w/some incidents which LYB might've also done the same?? Or are you referring to the "LYB's blurting out 'break-his-leg' comments with LCW"??...If it's the latter, IMO, they could be, arguably, the same; but, IMO, it's different in that in this case LiMao actually got up from his seat and got himself an exercise by getting himself involved in something he was not directly related with (e.g. yelling, screaming at the umpire->then @ LD)..

Herein lies the problem. BWF's regulations regarding coaching interference is so full of holes that any tom dick and harry can violate it and still get away with it. It's almost as though they couldn't afford a lawyer/consultant to help them draft air tight regulations so they did it themselves... and didn't think everything through carefully. And all they do now is patch it up and patch it up–all makeshift solutions. You can only put so many fingers in a leaking dyke before the pressure eventually breaks it down. BWF really need to overhaul how they govern the game and handle situations like these. Frankly, it's embarrassing for me as a badminton player and only perpetuates badminton as a mickey mouse sport.

...even if LiMao did what he needed to do as a coach, was LiMao's actions and what he said justifiable in the heat of the moment, also?; even prior to him and LD going almost "mano-a-mano"??..:confused:..Wouldn't it be wiser for him to be calmed, sit still and avoid putting himself in the spotlight??:confused:
About the comment that "The CHN coaches understand this better as LYB also did the same thing", can you enlighten us w/some incidents which LYB might've also done the same?? Or are you referring to the "LYB's blurting out 'break-his-leg' comments with LCW"??...If it's the latter, IMO, they could be, arguably, the same; but, IMO, it's different in that in this case LiMao actually got up from his seat and got himself an exercise by getting himself involved in something he was not directly related with (e.g. yelling, screaming at the umpire->then @ LD)..

Totally agree with you that LM has no justification to use his tactic in the match to help LHI. A baddy competition should be played by the players, what business he had to talk behind LD while LD was playing and trying to concentrate? and to stand up and to move forward when LD talked to umpire? What a disgrace to baddy coachers :mad:

Based on my reliable source... Li Mao INITIALLY did stood up from his chair. But he didnt walk to the umpire. He was still at his chair. Probably move one or 2 steps thats all. Later he did move more after LinDan threw his racket.

Besides the Break his leg comment from LYB. He did infact shouted to the umpires and even CHIEF Umpire during China Open and some others tournament. Of course it was not publicised since it was not shown on tv due to the matches was not shown on tv.
Anaheim WC05 - MSSF, LD vrs PG, LYB walked to umpire and caused a similar fiasco with Den coach intervening.

Totally agree with you that LM has no justification to use his tactic in the match to help LHI. A baddy competition should be played by the players, what business he had to talk behind LD while LD was playing and trying to concentrate? and to stand up and to move forward when LD talked to umpire? What a disgrace to baddy coachers :mad:

He's just following in the footsteps of LYB, who's set the standard for harassment.

These things that involve coaches is not an umfamiliar sight. Other sports have the same problem as well that involve coaches too. I guess its spice up the game. If not it will be too boring and we will not have anything to talk about.

..i think we need to have our event back in here to give us his insights and his first-hand account..indyko and Alphonse already shared their LIVE accounts of the incident; just need to read event's account as he was basically sitting the closest to the action (i know he already wrote what happened on the badzine website)..:cool:
Based on my reliable source... Li Mao INITIALLY did stood up from his chair. But he didnt walk to the umpire. He was still at his chair. Probably move one or 2 steps thats all. Later he did move more after LinDan threw his racket.

Besides the Break his leg comment from LYB. He did infact shouted to the umpires and even CHIEF Umpire during China Open and some others tournament. Of course it was not publicised since it was not shown on tv due to the matches was not shown on tv.
..hmm, i guess after sitting down and taking 4 over-ruled calls, LiMao had an itch to.......................stand up and be seen..:rolleyes: :p
I guess in a way, he (and his assistance) might've been at the wrong time and wrong place, when LD hurled his racket. IF he had sat down at the back end of the court, instead @ the side of the court, he might've not taken the racket hurl to the extreme (and walked back towards the umpire)..

As for LYB simply shouting to umpires/court officials, my thought is the same and same w/cooler's..
Anaheim WC05 - MSSF, LD vrs PG, LYB walked to umpire and caused a similar fiasco with Den coach intervening.
..oh yeah, that one i remember...Boy, luckily nothing went further during that fiasco..:p

First of all, Lin Dan is definitely not right in doing the things he did in this incident no matter the shuttle is really out or not or what Li Mao shouted to him. He should be punished for what he did. Lin Dan is a great player. As a countryman, I will always cheer for him when he fights for our country. But I do not really like his peronaliity a lot. He still has a lot to learn to become a more respectful sportsman. Look at Yang Yang, Zhao Jianhua, they are well known not only for their achievements and talents in badminton, but also their great personalities.
What Li Mao, as a korean team coach, did in this incident (trying to pressure the umpire and shout to Lin Dan) is understandable. He is a professional couch. He wants his player to win. But, on a second thought, Li Mao, you are chinese. Do not you think it is improper for you to show this kind of behavior when your charge plays against your countryman? I know, you were under a lot of pressure at that time, and you might have just lost you control too. I would think you would have regretted a little bit for what you did when you got back your cool.

Never heard of such comments blaming player for not turning the cheeks, while at the same time, allowing a rouge coach a free hand to pull all dirty tricks for a win in MSF KO 08 :eek::mad:

i think li mao also took advantage of the situation. Knowing that neither the umpire, coach Ha understood mandarian, he can ramble off verbal attack on LD without fear. Even if LiMao has to explain his action to BWF, no one can verify what he said to LD. It is LM versus LD words.

That's extract LM trying to do and did, taking advantage of the situation to help his losing player in MSF KO 08 :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1P5Nbne9do
After watching this clip, I must say, I'm really disappointed in Li Mao.

What LD did was wrong, but LM was not right either. It's clear he pushed ZB hard; ZB was just trying to hold him - not push him away like LM said.

ZB was merely trying to block an advancing mad coach LM, who in turn gave ZB a slap to the chest :eek:

LD should apologize sincerely instead of pointing fingers to other parties. His behaviour in KO is totally unacceptable and will tarnish his image permanently.

I don't see any mentioning what LM needed to do here, why? Was just LD involved all by himself :confused:

No matter what LM has said, no matter the line judge is favoring LHI or now, LD just can't throw his racquet. This is not ice hockey. He needs to be suspended.

LD was provoked into the fight if you got all the facts straight :rolleyes:

..oh yeah, that one i remember...Boy, luckily nothing went further during that fiasco..:p[/quote]
I was in attendance at the Pond watching WC05, LD-PG match was the best of the SF, even better than the MSF. This KO08 LD-LM incident tops it all with all the chilli powder and spices thrown in....:p

..oh yeah, that one i remember...Boy, luckily nothing went further during that fiasco..:p
I was in attendance at the Pond watching WC05, LD-PG match was the best of the SF, even better than the MSF. This KO08 LD-LM incident tops it all with all the chilli powder and spices thrown in....:p[/QUOTE]

Yup i agree. Would really want to see some fighting on court. :D.

is li mao fluent in korean? and do any of you know what language lin dan used when went up to lee hyun il? :D
I heard Li Mao spoke some sentences in Korean players.....not sure he is fluent or not...
One interesting culture of Korean players, before and after the matches, Korean players has to go to see and bow to Their Team manager before and after playing.......

For your information..when Kor MD walked out the match in CO 07, The team manager who happenned sat behind us....just told one sentence to Ha Tae Kwon...suddenly all KOR players left the stadium and came back 3 hrs later...I heard that KOR team was prepared to pull put all events then decided not....

I saw some posts that some BCers blame BWF for letting the coaches sitting next to the court...

I have to disagree ( Sorry Kwun)

The idea of putting the coaches next to the court:

a. This idea had been requested by BWF members so BWF passed it after geeting votes/approval.

b.Also the idea is to make the games more interesting..especially if a player goes Blank and play badly so the coach can guide and fight more...

It is hard to punish the coaches that said something bad to the opponents...like LYB to LCW or LYB said to Zhang Ning when she played Firdasari...that set was tight and LYB said" how come you lose to that STUPID player?..luckily Firda did not understand Chinese...is that necessary that LYB has to say other players " stupid"??? think of it...unfortunately what LM said something to LD will not be punishable....will be He said and he said...no proof....

I Wish that Sony defeated LD in QTR and this might not happen....only IF...
..well, that could be said for many players also, not just Sony..;)
I saw some posts that some BCers blame BWF for letting the coaches sitting next to the court...

I have to disagree ( Sorry Kwun)

The idea of putting the coaches next to the court:

a. This idea had been requested by BWF members so BWF passed it after geeting votes/approval.

b.Also the idea is to make the games more interesting..especially if a player goes Blank and play badly so the coach can guide and fight more...
..the idea of coaches being able to sit next to court, i believe most BCers knew about that..What a few or some of us were wondering is the location of the coaches' seat during the KO MS Final (maybe even throughout the entire Finals). Usually, from what we saw, the coach(es) would sit on the back end of the court/behind his/her player(s). But not in this particular instance. Thus, perhaps, it was an unexpected incident and LiMao (and his assistance) were in the wrong place at the wrong time.:p
It is hard to punish the coaches that said something bad to the opponents...like LYB to LCW or LYB said to Zhang Ning when she played Firdasari...that set was tight and LYB said" how come you lose to that STUPID player?..luckily Firda did not understand Chinese...is that necessary that LYB has to say other players " stupid"??? think of it...unfortunately what LM said something to LD will not be punishable....will be He said and he said...no proof....
..about LYB commenting to players, again like what cooler wrote, there's no specific rule in BWF which prohibits coaches from talking to his/her charges/players (in LYB's case, he was talking to BCL and ZN). Whilst in this particular case, it's slightly different. IMO, LM (as the elder person in the incident) should've promoted peace and shouldn't have made the additional comments to LD (intentionally or unintentionally), which in turn provoked LinDan even more.
About what LYB actually said (in the past) and if they were "punishable or not", i think we can discuss abt that in a different thread.:cool:

Haha wow... What was his reaction? :)
He just want to know the winner and whats really happening...I am sure when INA team arrived last nite, he will be busy asking the other players for more complete story...told him to ask INA coaches/Flandy/Alvent....

I guess it is time for Indonesa to consider hiring Li Mao...

I guess it is time for Indonesa to consider hiring Li Mao...

for wat?? better smackdown partnership with TH???:D:D:D:D:D:D:D it would be havoc then..............

for wat?? better smackdown partnership with TH???:D:D:D:D:D:D:D it would be havoc then..............
I am sure that it may be covered by USA today or ESPN.....what a way to promote Badminton..:D:D:D...Li Mao is not cheap....I heard KOR has paid top dollars...

It seems the court side coaches are beginning to become quite an attraction for sports entertainment. I can imagine two well behaved players slogging it out on court with both of their courtside coaches doing the cussing, cursing, shouting and pointing the finger at each other! :D:D:D

He's just following in the footsteps of LYB, who's set the standard for harassment.

Since I joined BC forum not too long, I don't know whole a lot what LYB did personally to players from other counties so I can't comment on it. Here, we are talking about LM and LD and the conflict in MSF KO 08. I don't want to be side-tracked into a off-topic discussion of LYB. But if it was LYB did all the dirty tricks in KO 08, I would say the same thing to him. Where's basic professionalism of a coach? It looked like a circus of lawyers arguing in court, LM who did not even see where the shuttlecock landed stood up to argue the call from linesmen was good. What a joke? He did not even know the facts, but jumped up anyway. Does this sound familiar to dishonest behavior of lawyers arguing and objecting to anything coming out on the other side? I hope baddy to be a clean sports and we can get rid of all the dirty tricks, whether they come out from Chn, Kor, or other countries :mad:

It seems the court side coaches are beginning to become quite an attraction for sports entertainment. I can imagine two well behaved players slogging it out on court with both of their courtside coaches doing the cussing, cursing, shouting and pointing the finger at each other! :D:D:D
i like to see a separate badminton match between LM and LYB, just for old time sake:p

Unfortunately I did not have a chance to watch the KO finals and therefore can't comment much regarding the 'skirmish' between LD and LM.

But suffice to say that under the Badminton Laws the following provisions are perhaps relevant to the case:

Law 17.2

The umpire, where appointed, shall be in charge of the match, the court and its immediate surrounds. The umpire shall report to the Referee.

Law 3.5.4 Players leaving the court

3.5.4.1 Ensure that the players do not leave the court without the umpire's permission except during the intervals as described in Law 16.2 (Law 16.5.2)

But the most relevant provisions concerning coaches are as follows:

3.5.6 Coaching from off the court

3.5.6.1 Coaching from off the court (Law 16.5.1) in any form while the shuttle is in play shall be prevented.

3.5.6.2 Ensure that:

* the coaches are seated in the designated seats and do not stand court-sde during the match except during the permitted intervals; (Law 16.2)

* there is no distraction or disruption to play by any coach.

3.5.6.3 If, in the opinion of the umpire, play is disrupted or a player of the opposing side is distracted by a coach, a "let" shall be called. The Referee shall be called immediately. The Referee shall issue a warning to the coach concerned:

3.5.6.4 If there is second recurrence of such incident, the Referee may ask the coach to be removed from the arena floor, if necessary.

Now, for those of you who saw the incident, whether in person or on TV, which of the above provisions would apply to (1) Lin Dan (2) Li Mao (3) LHI (if any) (4) both LD & LM or ALL of them.

YOU be the judge, and
What is your verdict? and
Your recommendation as PENALTY in consultation with the Referee.
:cool::cool::cool::cool:

Lastly, do you think that the Umpire himself has erred?

My advice to BWF:

Effective 2009 all SS Series must be held in

1. Singapore 8*
2. Japan 8*
3. England 8*
4. Denmark 8*
5. France 8*

WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP is to be held in the continent of America.
In my opinion, these countries are the most professional organizers. The linespersons are professional, unbiased.

...
Now, for those of you who saw the incident, whether in person or on TV, which of the above provisions would apply to (1) Lin Dan (2) Li Mao (3) LHI (if any) (4) both LD & LM or ALL of them.

YOU be the judge, and
What is your verdict? and
Your recommendation as PENALTY in consultation with the Referee.
:cool::cool::cool::cool:

Lastly, do you think that the Umpire himself has erred?
(and no i'm trying to be a judge or putting my verdict or penalty)..:p
..to answer the first part of the question and based on the videos of the incident, i think none of them applied to anyone. Because from what i saw, the entire fiasco happened out of play (not during a play as the rules have stated). Add to that, there was no permitted interval given, if i recall correctly. The Umpire was probably still in shock at what was going on, at the rate & unpredictability of the whole situation. I doubt he even got off his seat during the whole bruhaha, only to watch (and memorize) the whole thing from his seat. Maybe it was his first time, ever, seeing such a display of uncontrolled emotion.
Not only that, he might not even understood what LinDan & LiMao were saying. That, IMO, could be his main enemy, as he was basically the closest one to the whole action.
By the time the whole bruhaha ended, he probably forgot about the rules as stated above. At the end, all i remember was, he was holding a yellow card out from his pocket and gave it to LinDan.:p

As to whether the Umpire called for a Referee during that fiasco, i couldn't tell. But i would guess the Referee himself probably jumped into action as soon as racket was thrown and coaches started to shove & yell at each other. At such a time of confusion, i doubt the Umpire nor the Referee could do anything much. Only to jump into the fray, separate all parties involved and prevent any further unnecessary actions. Consider also, the match was nearing the end and all the players had to play for was the last couple of points or so.

Was the Umpire in control of the match? I think he tried to. Did he err himself? it's hard to tell. Perhaps that's why, as Hau-ge mentioned to us, from an unofficial source, BWF has called for a meeting between all parties involved to clear up and resolve this incident.:cool:

To that end, as i mentioned earlier, i give props to the organizer for allowing a neutral/non-local Umpire to preside over the match. And fortunately, the match ended a short time later.:cool:

*Btw, yes, to get a better feeling of what happened, you should watch the videos, whenever you have the time, Loh;)

My advice to BWF:

Effective 2009 all SS Series must be held in

1. Singapore 8*
2. Japan 8*
3. England 8*
4. Denmark 8*
5. France 8*

WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP is to be held in the continent of America.
In my opinion, these countries are the most professional organizers. The linespersons are professional, unbiased.

and then the badminton will fade away from korea,indonesia,malaysia and china very soon :eek: :eek: :crying:

BWF really need to overhaul how they govern the game and handle situations like these. Frankly, it's embarrassing for me as a badminton player and only perpetuates badminton as a mickey mouse sport.

I wish badminton is as well-known and as well-loved in the US as Mickey Mouse... :D

You know, I think Taufik's temprament has been toned down lately, maybe because he's now a father, a family-man, etc. Lin Dan is maybe on the verge of taking away the "badminton's favorite bad-boy" title away from Taufik... :p But to be a "Taufik", he also has to love fast-cars and fast-women... I haven't heard reports of Lin Dan mastering those bad-boy departments yet... :p *just kidding*

As for Li Mao... maybe his outburst motivation is to further solidify his loyalty in the eyes of KBA. He is pro-his-pupils, not pro-China... One of the undeniable result of this incident is that the Korean public [if not the KBA] are more convinced about Li Mao's willingness to distract his own countryman's concentration in favor of his own pupil's success... I think more Koreans like his commitement to Korean badminton [more so] today than before the incident. :o

My advice to BWF:

Effective 2009 all SS Series must be held in

1. Singapore 8*
2. Japan 8*
3. England 8*
4. Denmark 8*
5. France 8*

WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP is to be held in the continent of America.
In my opinion, these countries are the most professional organizers. The linespersons are professional, unbiased.

Meanwhile, in Russia, the linespersons were unbiased but not capable... :o Some were listening to their iPods. Some don't know the clear definition of service faults. Many reacted around 2 to 3 seconds after the shuttlecock hit the ground. :p

and then the badminton will fade away from korea,indonesia,malaysia and china very soon :eek: :eek: :crying:

I agree with taufikist... BWF got to give Koreans, Indonesians, Malaysians, and Chinese linespeople to do their duties for their country's badminton... :p Whatever threatments and leeways they give to the Korean Open organizers should be given to MAS, INA, and CHN... :rolleyes:

(and no i'm trying to be a judge or putting my verdict or penalty)..:p
..to answer the first part of the question and based on the videos of the incident, i think none of them applied to anyone. Because from what i saw, the entire fiasco happened out of play (not during a play as the rules have stated). Add to that, there was no permitted interval given, if i recall correctly. The Umpire was probably still in shock at what was going on, at the rate & unpredictability of the whole situation. I doubt he even got off his seat during the whole bruhaha, only to watch (and memorize) the whole thing from his seat. Maybe it was his first time, ever, seeing such a display of uncontrolled emotion.

Not only that, he might not even understood what LinDan & LiMao were saying. That, IMO, could be his main enemy, as he was basically the closest one to the whole action.

By the time the whole bruhaha ended, he probably forgot about the rules as stated above. At the end, all i remember was, he was holding a yellow card out from his pocket and gave it to LinDan.:p

As to whether the Umpire called for a Referee during that fiasco, i couldn't tell. But i would guess the Referee himself probably jumped into action as soon as racket was thrown and coaches started to shove & yell at each other. At such a time of confusion, i doubt the Umpire nor the Referee could do anything much. Only to jump into the fray, separate all parties involved and prevent any further unnecessary actions. Consider also, the match was nearing the end and all the players had to play for was the last couple of points or so.

Was the Umpire in control of the match? I think he tried to. Did he err himself? it's hard to tell. Perhaps that's why, as Hau-ge mentioned to us, from an unofficial source, BWF has called for a meeting between all parties involved to clear up and resolve this incident.:cool:

To that end, as i mentioned earlier, i give props to the organizer for allowing a neutral/non-local Umpire to preside over the match. And fortunately, the match ended a short time later.:cool:

*Btw, yes, to get a better feeling of what happened, you should watch the videos, whenever you have the time, Loh;)

Yeah I wish someone would lend me a DVD of the MS finals between LD and LHI so that I could verify with your statements.

I'm surprised that you mentioned that the fiasco happened when the match was not in play. I thought you said it was towards the end of the match, just a few more points.

As long as it is not during the official one or two minute interval or no player seeks permission from the umpire to attend to an injury, for a towelling down, etc, the match is still in play and the umpire has jurisdiction as abovementioned in the laws.

In other words, Lin Dan was not supposed to leave the court to meet up with Li Mao just outside (if it did happen) for the ugly exchanges or LM was not allowed to enter the court nor stand up. He had to sit in his designated seat!

When LD threw his racket, the umpire could caution him as he later did with a yellow card, I think for this reason. The hot verbal exchanges between both of them could be taken as distraction and disruption to the game. And therefore both could be warned.

I suppose you are right in saying that the umpire was in total shock with such a sudden drama and was just rooted to his seat, speechless momentarily, although he could sense the anger in their faces and voice and their body language. The time factor is also relevant. How long did the entire drama last before the two oppoents were seperated. I supposed it was relatively short for officials to take remedial action. If it was the Chinese coach who invaded the court and pushed Li Mao aside to side LD then the Chinese coach could also be taken to task.

So actually there were a number of infringements going by the above Laws, but I need to watch the video or DVD to confirm my suspicions!:D

Yeah I wish someone would lend me a DVD of the MS finals between LD and LHI so that I could verify with your statements.

I'm surprised that you mentioned that the fiasco happened when the match was not in play. I thought you said it was towards the end of the match, just a few more points.

As long as it is not during the official one or two minute interval or no player seeks permission from the umpire to attend to an injury, for a towelling down, etc, the match is still in play and the umpire has jurisdiction as abovementioned in the laws.

In other words, LD is not supposed to leave the court to meet up with LM just outside (if it did happen) for the ugly exchanges or LM is not allowed to enter the court nor stand up. He has to sit in his designated seat!

When LD threw his racket, the umpire can caution him as he later did with a yellow card, I think for this reason. The hot verbal exchanges between both of them can be taken as distraction and disruption to the game.

I suppose you are right in saying that the umpire was in total shock with such a sudden drama and was just rooted to his seat, speechless, although he could sense the anger in their faces and voice and their body language. The time factor is also relevant. How long did the entire drama last before the two oppoents were seperated. If it was the Chinese coach who invaded the court and pushed Li Mao aside to stop the controversy, then the Chinese coach would also be blamed.

So actually there were a number of infringements going by the above Laws, but I need to watch the video or DVD to confirm my suspicions!:D
..you don't need to have a full DVD to witness it;)...but hopefully these videos/links may help clear some of your queries:
http://thebadmintonblog.blogspot.com/2008/01/video-of-lin-dans-outburst.html (from vching's blog site, video courtesy of BC member elderplayer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ5z1zwfOog (another perspective of the fiasco, video courtesy of Alphonse, who was there)
http://news.naver.com/tv/read.php?mode=LSS2D&office_id=052&article_id=0000183309&section_id=129&section_id2=5ae (just click on the image and video should play; shows LinDan throwing his racket, link courtesy of narnia)

Abt the "fiasco not in play but towards the end of the match", yes, all correct. The play ended and the whole fiasco started.
As for them being in a "permitted interval", I'm not sure or don't think either players (or coaches) asked for any injury timeout or toweling down. From the videos, the sequence of actions happened so fast.
As for the time of the whole incident/fiasco, hmm, based on Alphonse's video, i would between 3-4 minutes or so (as he missed a bit of the initial moment)...The first link above was the first one shared in BC..

Anyway, i'll let you watch (and re-watch and possibly re-watch) & enjoy the whole drama unfolds before your eyes...........and let you, be the judge for yourself...:p:D ;):cool:

and then the badminton will fade away from korea,indonesia,malaysia and china very soon :eek: :eek: :crying:

Instead, how about just sending officials, especially line and service judges, from the so-called "unbiased" countries to SS tournaments with full board and lodging plus air-ticket of course.

Then I will volunteer as line judge and beat hau-ge as the most widely-travelled ambassador of BC! Haha-hehe-haha -HA :D:D:D!

Then I will volunteer as line judge and beat hau-ge as the most widely-travelled ambassador of BC! Haha-hehe-haha -HA :D:D:D!

And fastdrop? If Huang is most travelled, Fastdrop is a close 2nd, he went to all SS in 2007 right? You're very far, long way to catch up :D

Instead, how about just sending officials, especially line and service judges, from the so-called "unbiased" countries to SS tournaments with full board and lodging plus air-ticket of course.

Then I will volunteer as line judge and beat hau-ge as the most widely-travelled ambassador of BC! Haha-hehe-haha -HA :D:D:D!

One more....All linespersons must come from BC....

I will then be one of them:D

One more....All linespersons must come from BC....

I will then be one of them:D

BC members are not known for their neutrality.

BC members are not known for their neutrality.

Unless of course if Indra refrains from judging when TH is playing! :cool: :rolleyes:

[quote=Krisna;782222:D

You know, I think Taufik's temprament has been toned down lately, maybe because he's now a father, a family-man, etc. Lin Dan is maybe on the verge of taking away the "badminton's favorite bad-boy" title away from Taufik... :p:p *just kidding* But to be a "Taufik", he also has to love fast-cars and fast-women... I haven't heard reports of Lin Dan mastering those bad-boy departments yet...

I like this one .... lol. Perhaps, TH is now saying, "Lin, you don't speak English nor B. Indonesia, and I don't speak Chinese, that's fine but we have something in common, we have now one more similar title other than the WC" IMO, I think both have this in common - unpretentious character.

Too many things said about line calls, very simple solution, implement video "quick replay on all base line hits". That's it, no more arguing between anyone. Umpire's final decision will be base on the video replay. Its a world competition, putting videos per base lines is a very cheap solution, can save lines men, no more error calls, all fair and square. Players can concentrate everything on their game, rather than thinking and be affected on wrong judgments by the lines men.

Its a world competition, putting videos per base lines is a very cheap solution, can save lines men, no more error calls, all fair and square. Players can concentrate everything on their game, rather than thinking and be affected on wrong judgments by the lines men.

That not enough, I suggest...

1)Cameras as you mention.(hawk eye if possible)

2)The line-judges & umpires mustn’t be from the host country nor from the country of players that involved in the match.

3)Umpires and line judges must be a qualified one, and not from the last minute crash course.

4)Before the game started, all the umpires and line judges that involved must read the anti-bias pledge and declare that the bias on judgments as the evil in world of badminton & sports, just like all the soccer team captain read the anti-racism pledge during the World Cup before the game started.

5)Bann any countries that failed to comply with the rules & regulations to host any Tournament under BWF.

Otherwise we need to ”Hawk Eye” on BWF.

I managed to take a look at one of the videos from one of the links supplied here. Unfortunately, the pictures were not clear and too bright even to see the shuttle and the lines. I need to be very patient because it was stop and go all the way, due to buffering (?).

From what I saw, LD should have wrapped up the match when he was leading 20-18 but he allowed LHI to make a comeback to tie him at 21-all. Then LD smashed to LHI's left side line and the linejudge called it out. LHI was then up 22-21. LD disputed the decision and created a scene. He did not approach the umpire to lodge a complaint or to confirm the decision.

I saw Li Mao stood up from his chair together with his assistant. Before long, the Chinese coach came into the court and tried to push Li Mao with his hand. Li Mao pushed back and others around them intervened and things seemed to be back to normal thereafter. Then only that the umpire called Lin Dan and showed him the yellow card, maybe for dissent or is it for throwing his racket?

Play resumed thereafter without any more incident. But LD denied LHI by winning the next point to force a deuce again at 22-all. He went on to lead 23-22 with the second match point. Then came a very long rally, with LHI refusing to give up and forcing LD to hit outside the baseline in the end. It became deuce again at 23-all. Absolutely thrilling stuff! But LHI won the next crucial point at the net to make it 24-23 and match point. The next point was a blank with LD jumping for a smash. His shot could have hit the net and did not carry over or he hit out. I could not see the details. But LHI was delirious and clutch both hands while lying on his back for a rare and unexpected victory!

If what I saw was correct, the match has not ended yet as the last point was played to 25-23, therefore the coaches should not enter the court without permission from the umpire. Lin Dan should have appealed to the umpire and not create a scene by protesting publicly when the linejudge called his smash out when the score was 21-all. I suppose he was mad at himself for not sealing the match when he led 20-18. His uncalled-for action had angered Li Mao and this caused the Chinese coach to react by using his hands, maybe to ward off LM first.

But it would appear that the preceding bad line decisions might have added fuel to the fiasco in question. I did not see the earlier sequences and the pics I saw were rather blur.

IMO, LD, LM and more so the Chinese coach (Zhong Bo?) have been in breach of the badminton laws. It was very difficult for the umpire to intercede as the events emerged so suddently. It is going to be extremely difficult for BWF to arrive at an equitable settlement.

I guess BWF has to make this incidents clear enough,for who else is wrong.If indeed the korean linesman made a mistake,they should do something as well.LD for his action of throwing racket should definitely be punished.No doubt!Even though the racket didn't hit..still,it's innapropriate,especially because LD aim it to someone.He intended to.
Hopefully BWF can clear this matters soon enough..before Beijing 2008 OG.

What makes me wonder is what LM doing in the match between LD n LHI?Was it just to see the match?

I just got some pics.The PICS will tells us the stories as well..

http://img1.qq.com/sports/pics/8524/8524645.jpg

http://news.shm.com.cn/attachement/jpg/site1/20080128/00010293b005090786cc39.jpg

http://news.shm.com.cn/attachement/jpg/site1/20080128/00010293b005090786cc3a.jpg

http://sports.tom.com/uimg/2007/2/2/wangfang/644a1201_29038.jpg

Seeing from the picture,YY can also give LD penalty by deducting the contract or bonus money for him.LOL..

and then the badminton will fade away from korea,indonesia,malaysia and china very soon :eek: :eek: :crying:

Either way,BWF can arrange or supervising the linesman,umpires list..n avoid them for being "local supportive".BWF should arrange some boards of international umpires that is pointed exclusively by BWF,trustable..for bigger events like super series.Avoid it being dominated by the local umpires,hence it'll prevent the negative-thoughts by other countries who's also participating in it.

Hawk-eye or something like that should be soon introduced to the badminton sport.BWF should be aware of the misjudging or the unfair treatments by linesman,on favor to home players.

Are you sure you watched the MS Final of Korea Open 08? :confused:


From what I saw, LD should have wrapped up the match when he was leading 20-18 but he allowed LHI to make a comeback to tie him at 21-all. Then LD smashed to LHI's left side line and the linejudge called it out. LHI was then up 22-21. LD disputed the decision and created a scene. He did not approach the umpire to lodge a complaint or to confirm the decision.

I managed to take a look at one of the videos from one of the links supplied here. Unfortunately, the pictures were not clear and too bright even to see the shuttle and the lines. I need to be very patient because it was stop and go all the way, due to buffering (?).
...yes, i believe that one was the very first video posted on BC..Have you watched the other 2 videos, yet??..The 2nd link/video, i've given above, recorded by Alphonse should show a better sequence of the incident..:)
From what I saw, LD should have wrapped up the match when he was leading 20-18 but he allowed LHI to make a comeback to tie him at 21-all. Then LD smashed to LHI's left side line and the linejudge called it out. LHI was then up 22-21. LD disputed the decision and created a scene. He did not approach the umpire to lodge a complaint or to confirm the decision.
Are you sure you watched the MS Final of Korea Open 08? :confused:
:p..Loh might've been a bit confused maybe even caught up, after watching the video..:);)..Actually it was LHI who made the smash to LD's left side line, which put LHI ahead 22-21.
I saw Li Mao stood up from his chair together with his assistant. Before long, the Chinese coach came into the court and tried to push Li Mao with his hand. Li Mao pushed back and others around them intervened and things seemed to be back to normal thereafter. Then only that the umpire called Lin Dan and showed him the yellow card, maybe for dissent or is it for throwing his racket?
..yes, that whole sequence was also shown on the 2nd link, i've given above, recorded by Alphonse. I believe LM sort of pushed/shoved Zhong Bo first.
If what I saw was correct, the match has not ended yet as the last point was played to 25-23, therefore the coaches should not enter the court without permission from the umpire. Lin Dan should have appealed to the umpire and not create a scene by protesting publicly when the linejudge called his smash out when the score was 21-all. I suppose he was mad at himself for not sealing the match when he led 20-18. His uncalled-for action had angered Li Mao and this caused the Chinese coach to react by using his hands, maybe to ward off LM first.
..ah, i see what you meant by the "match was still in 'PLAY'". However, if you saw the 2nd video link (by Alphonse), i don't think the coaches entered the court area during the whole incident. The whole pushing/shoving incident occurred on the sideline, next to the umpire. As for whether LD should've asked for an appeal/permission from the Umpire about the line call, yes, that's the correct way to do it. But then again, in the heat of the moment and in that emotional state, he just couldn't hold it anymore.
But it would appear that the preceding bad line decisions might have added fuel to the fiasco in question. I did not see the earlier sequences and the pics I saw were rather blur.
..yes, a lot of BCers already mentioned that..
IMO, LD, LM and more so the Chinese coach (Zhong Bo?) have been in breach of the badminton laws. It was very difficult for the umpire to intercede as the events emerged so suddently. It is going to be extremely difficult for BWF to arrive at an equitable settlement.
..i would say LM and LD are the main parties responsible. As for the CHN coaches (Zhong Bo), he might have a very minor role as, IMO, he was trying to inject peace.
..yes, it'll be a hard sell for all parties to testify to whoever will be listening to their side of the stories; but i do hope and feel all parties involved will tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth:cool:...In one aspect, BWF would need a "neutral" person(s) who was there and witnessed/listened the whole thing. And again, the Umpire (and to an extent the tournament Referee) could be the "key" person(s) in this whole incident/investigation. We shall see.....and see we shall...:cool:

Loh, not sure if you've seen this one which was posted somewhere in BC, but this is one of the better quality vid of the controversial call. You be the judge, nay have to replay it a couple times:
http://s.sohu.com/20080128/n254932425.shtml

Loh, not sure if you've seen this one which was posted somewhere in BC, but this is one of the better quality vid of the controversial call. You be the judge, nay have to replay it a couple times:
http://s.sohu.com/20080128/n254932425.shtml

this one is clearer, at 2:44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNz0OuAVHho

..
..yes, that whole sequence was also shown on the 2nd link, i've given above, recorded by Alphonse. I believe LM sort of pushed/shoved Zhong Bo first.
..sorry, what i meant to write was, based on the video, Zhong Bo was the one who sort of pushed LiMao back, first; but in return, LiMao shoved/pushed Zhong Bo back..:p
Loh, not sure if you've seen this one which was posted somewhere in BC, but this is one of the better quality vid of the controversial call. You be the judge, nay have to replay it a couple times:
http://s.sohu.com/20080128/n254932425.shtml
this one is clearer, at 2:44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNz0OuAVHho
:):D...Loh, yes, both videos are clearer...From what i can see, from that camera vantage point, the shuttle looked like it landed outside, if not by no more than 1 inch. It was somewhat a fast one to judge and i can understand if the linejudge who made the call might've thought it grazed the line.

Hmm, the more i think about this, in this particular instance, is it possible if the Umpire call it a "Let"?? And start play all over again at 21 all??..:confused:

That's not the whole truth man... ZB put his hand on LM's chest first and tried to hold LM back. As ZB is on LD's side, it's hard for LM to interpret this as a benevolent action. Btw, ZB said in his interview that he was trying to help LD (他骂我的队员，我当然要上去和他理论理论了 -- He verbally abused my player, of course I would go and argue with him), so he was not trying to "inject peace" as you guessed.



..yes, that whole sequence was also shown on the 2nd link, i've given above, recorded by Alphonse. I believe LM sort of pushed/shoved Zhong Bo first.

..myself (see post above);)..thank you for your effort in reminding me..:cool:
*The "injecting peace" was my own interpretation of ZB's action, based on the videos (w/out knowing what he said). Of course, now with the added proof of him actually testifying that his intention was something else, that notion will be debatable.;)

I saw Zhong Ball pushed Li Mao first & Li Mao pushed him back & that's the end of it, fair & square. I think this incident is happened to be a revenge of LYB shouting at LM's student LCW in HKO last year & it was only a pay back time.
This controversy was so greatly blowing out of proportion only because it involved 2 historic rivals, namely LM & LYB, otherwise nobody would have care so much.
As a matter of fact, I don't really care about who's right & who's wrong, all I care is Li Mao can produce & can always produce top notched players wherever he goes & Team China should recruit him back asap if China wants to secure the Olympic Gold for MS. However, I think this happening is next to impossible & controversies like that would have happen more & more. I think it is going to be very entertaining in the world of badminton until Olympic.

I saw Zhong Ball pushed Li Mao first & Li Mao pushed him back & that's the end of it, fair & square. I think this incident is happened to be a revenge of LYB shouting at LM's student LCW in HKO last year & it was only a pay back time.
This controversy was so greatly blowing out of proportion only because it involved 2 historic rivals, namely LM & LYB, otherwise nobody would have care so much.
As a matter of fact, I don't really care about who's right & who's wrong, all I care is Li Mao can produce & can always produce top notched players wherever he goes & Team China should recruit him back asap if China wants to secure the Olympic Gold for MS. However, I think this happening is next to impossible & controversies like that would have happen more & more. I think it is going to be very entertaining in the world of badminton until Olympic.

i think it is more simple than that.

it is purely the temper and personality of these individual. Li Mao is the type who is a bit short on temper plus lacking in control of what goes out of their mouth. this is really similar to LYB, which is part of the reason they both tend to say the wrong thing.

as for LM going back to China, LYB's boss Liu has just said via the media that they will not take Li Mao back into the national team. he said perhaps he might be able to go teach some province team but to be honest, Li Mao is probably overly qualified. he will also lose a lot of pride to have to go coach province after he has produce top professional players one after another.

...
This controversy was so greatly blowing out of proportion only because it involved 2 historic rivals, namely LM & LYB, otherwise nobody would have care so much. ... I think it is going to be very entertaining in the world of badminton until Olympic.
..well, it could be partially right because it involves 2 countrymen (1 of them used to be CHN's ex-coach). Another reason is because, this type of incident rarely, if at all, happens very often. Add to that, the degree of actions shown which makes it almost like one of those NBA, MLB (baseball)-type brawls people often see on tellies. Who knows what would happen......God forbids......if fists & bodies were actually thrown in that match.....:o:(
As for it being "entertaining in the world of badminton until Olympics", well, it sure will keep baddy fans like us in tune with the upcoming pre-Olympics tourneys on the horizon, if & when the KOR squad meets up with CHN's squad. Come August in Beijing....it should be interesting...

That's not the whole truth man... ZB put his hand on LM's chest first and tried to hold LM back. As ZB is on LD's side, it's hard for LM to interpret this as a benevolent action. Btw, ZB said in his interview that he was trying to help LD (他骂我的队员，我当然要上去和他理论理论了 -- He verbally abused my player, of course I would go and argue with him), so he was not trying to "inject peace" as you guessed.

LM himself in an interview considers that "hold" by ZB to be a push, and thus resulted in Li Mao's more violent reaction.

I think that action can be interpreted either way. ZB was "on LD's side", thus it is understandable that LM interpret it as a "push" and got angry.

LM himself in an interview considers that "hold" by ZB to be a push, and thus resulted in Li Mao's more violent reaction.

i think it is more simple than that.

it is purely the temper and personality of these individual. Li Mao is the type who is a bit short on temper plus lacking in control of what goes out of their mouth. this is really similar to LYB, which is part of the reason they both tend to say the wrong thing.

as for LM going back to China, LYB's boss Liu has just said via the media that they will not take Li Mao back into the national team. he said perhaps he might be able to go teach some province team but to be honest, Li Mao is probably overly qualified. he will also lose a lot of pride to have to go coach province after he has produce top professional players one after another.

Good news for other countries....
Korea is lucky enough to have hired him....

Are you sure you watched the MS Final of Korea Open 08? :confused:

Actually I'm not sure either! :D

As I said before, the video pics were unclear and I had no chance to replay to verify. In fact I ran out of patience trying to watch the last few sequences of the video.

I concede that the point (sideline smash) that caused the furore was rather debatable and I can't recall exactly what I saw for that very brief moment.

Naturally I stand to be corrected! :)

...As I said before, the video pics were unclear and I had no chance to replay to verify. In fact I ran out of patience trying to watch the last few sequences of the video....
:)..you had installed a fast internet connection @ home, Loh??..or is it for the PAW games??..:confused: ;)

I don't blame LiMao if he told the umpire that the call is correct. Since LiMao is sitting on the opposite far side of it. The shot might look in from his view.

:)..you had installed a fast internet connection @ home, Loh??..or is it for the PAW games??..:confused: ;)

Well I recently installed a mid-priced broad band internet connection at home but still disturbed by the 'slowness' and disruptions when high usage was experienced as in the SS tournaments.

At least now I can watch some links to video recordings as in the Korean Open affair, which I hitherto could not in the office because of restrictions! ;)

this one is clearer, at 2:44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNz0OuAVHho

OK, I try to watch both morphy's and your recommendations when I return home this evening. :)

None on the Korean side went to the opposite side of the court. But on the Chinese side, not only a racquet was flung to the opposite court, but both coach and player went to the opposite side to either confront or hold back (your call) their opposites. No matter how insulting Li Mao could be, it still should not come close to blows like that.

The story should have been how the Koreans (not Li Mao and Lee Hyun Il personally) may have stolen the title, but it has turned out to be how Lin Dan let his temper fly.

Exciting stuff ...

None on the Korean side went to the opposite side of the court. But on the Chinese side, not only a racquet was flung to the opposite court, but both coach and player went to the opposite side to either confront or hold back (your call) their opposites. No matter how insulting Li Mao could be, it still should not come close to blows like that.

The story should have been how the Koreans (not Li Mao and Lee Hyun Il personally) may have stolen the title, but it has turned out to be how Lin Dan let his temper fly.

Exciting stuff ...

Yes, definitely. My bet for satay - LD will be suspended for one or two tournaments.

Yes, definitely. My bet for satay - LD will be suspended for one or two tournaments.
I have a feeling you're gonna lose this bet ;)

I'm getting the impression that X Ball is BC's Satay Handout Machine :D

I'm getting the impression that X Ball is BC's Satay Handout Machine :D
No..He keeps winning the bets so it is otherway around..

I have a feeling you're gonna lose this bet ;)
Xball could win...I do not think BWF will suspend LD, I hope not..but may be some punishment that they applied to TH ( took away the prize money, not sure about the points)

LinDan's punishment should be worse than TH's walk off.

LinDan's punishment should be worse than TH's walk off.
..inkling as to what that could or should be??..:confused::p

i think it is more simple than that.

it is purely the temper and personality of these individual. Li Mao is the type who is a bit short on temper plus lacking in control of what goes out of their mouth. this is really similar to LYB, which is part of the reason they both tend to say the wrong thing.

...


I think you´re wrong here, you try to talk it down, but after the revolt against LYB there still is a lot of hate and bitterness between LYB and the people who had to leave Beijing. And I don´t feel like they care for a wrong linecall, only need incidents like this to show how wrong the opposing party is.

I'm getting the impression that X Ball is BC's Satay Handout Machine :D


Hahaha, put your money where your mouth is.:D

I hope I am wrong but if it is suspension, then LD is likely to miss an ALL-ENGLAND.

LinDan's punishment should be worse than TH's walk off.


And that prompted me to think about suspension. I cannot imagine taking away prize money as that would not hurt.

No..He keeps winning the bets so it is otherway around..


Thanks, yes indeed. I am not sure how many people owe me satays - from Australia to Indonesia.:D It is a good thing I have not kept count.:)

LinDan's punishment should be worse than TH's walk off.

sad things;
sad to see LD get upset
sad to see the quarrels
sad to see any player being punish
even sad if LD prohibited from Oly2008

sad things;
sad to see LD get upset
sad to see the quarrels
sad to see any player being punish
even sad if LD prohibited from Oly2008
Not a fans of LD, but I will be furios if he is being prohibited from Oly games or even All England.

An SS tournament or two maybe.
Wouldn't matter to LD but efficient to warned of any players & coaches from further acting inappropriately on court.

I don't think BWF dare to do that. Maybe a fine, or at most one SS. How about take an average, German Open? :D

Not a fans of LD, but I will be furios if he is being prohibited from Oly games or even All England.

An SS tournament or two maybe.
Wouldn't matter to LD but efficient to warned of any players & coaches from further acting inappropriately on court.

I don't think BWF dare to do that. Maybe a fine, or at most one SS. How about take an average, German Open? :D

It has to be more serious than tha! If Taufik was suspended 1 SS for the "walk" then Lin Dan should be at least 2 SS for creating history throwing racket to opposition coaches and show no remorse after that.
The whole whole thing is so unfortunate and sad, dark day for badminton!

It has to be more serious than tha! If Taufik was suspended 1 SS for the "walk" then Lin Dan should be at least 2 SS for creating history throwing racket to opposition coaches and show no remorse after that.
The whole whole thing is so unfortunate and sad, dark day for badminton!

Yes, I concur. It is not good for LD.

I think LD might get suspended max 1 tournment(most likely German open), if they suspend him more than that I'm sure China will balk at it and as a protest they might threaten to pull their entire team out during the suspension of LD as a point. Which will be really bad.

This is interesting answer from Lee Hyun Il when Lin Dan cross over to ask him :"Didn't you see that smash, how can that be NOT out". Hyun Il replied :" I don't know, the line judge already made the call, further more, in China is also like this!"
If you can read Chinese, here's the link http://sports.sinchew-i.com/node/2936?tid=11

I think LD might get suspended max 1 tournment(most likely German open), if they suspend him more than that I'm sure China will balk at it and as a protest they might threaten to pull their entire team out during the suspension of LD as a point. Which will be really bad.
BWF will take time to review the report and also they need time to call CHN and KOR team and both teams need time to prepare for hearing...if it happens, the hearing may happen in April or May....LD will be still able to compete AE , swiss or German Open...

Oh I forgot, which SS was TH suspended?

There are only two SS left (AE and Swiss) before the end of April, LYB will be mad if LD got suspended for that two. So maybe BWF should try to suspend LD for Singapore and Indonesian SSs? It can be good for LD to take a rest anyway, and he can concentrate on Thomas Cup, which is more important for LYB then two SSs anyway. :D

It has to be more serious than tha! If Taufik was suspended 1 SS for the "walk" then Lin Dan should be at least 2 SS for creating history throwing racket to opposition coaches and show no remorse after that.
The whole whole thing is so unfortunate and sad, dark day for badminton!

I think LD might get suspended max 1 tournment(most likely German open), if they suspend him more than that I'm sure China will balk at it and as a protest they might threaten to pull their entire team out during the suspension of LD as a point. Which will be really bad.

Bad for China but good for many other nations :D

If LYB pull the entire team out, then basically either BCL or CJ will drop out of the top 4 which would be a big blow to LYB's Olympic plan.

I think LD might get suspended max 1 tournment(most likely German open), if they suspend him more than that I'm sure China will balk at it and as a protest they might threaten to pull their entire team out during the suspension of LD as a point. Which will be really bad.

BWF will take time to review the report and also they need time to call CHN and KOR team and both teams need time to prepare for hearing...if it happens, the hearing may happen in April or May....LD will be still able to compete AE , swiss or German Open...

The suspend him after the Olympic, now everybody is happy :D

The link doesn't work.

This is interesting answer from Lee Hyun Il when Lin Dan cross over to ask him :"Didn't you see that smash, how can that be NOT out". Hyun Il replied :" I don't know, the line judge already made the call, further more, in China is also like this!"
If you can read Chinese, here's the link http://sports.sinchew-i.com/node/2936?tid=11

I also read that LD will most likely skip KO in the future just like TH, which is probably smart...
And if LD is penalized, I would think there must be some sort of penalty also against LM, but as a coach there isn't much they can do, since banning him from side line for a tournment most likely won't affect him that much since he can still prepare his players or sit in the stands and possibily relay what he wants his assistants to tell his players via phone or something...

That's also a good idea. :D

The suspend him after the Olympic, now everybody is happy :D

If LYB pull the entire team out, then basically either BCL or CJ will drop out of the top 4 which would be a big blow to LYB's Olympic plan.

I am not sure about CJ, but BCL isn't that close to being out of the top 4 I think... What's the chances of #5 catching up to CJ? Ants? Huangkwokhau?

The link doesn't work.

Try this :

http://sports.sinchew-i.com/node/2936?tid=3

This is interesting answer from Lee Hyun Il when Lin Dan cross over to ask him :"Didn't you see that smash, how can that be NOT out". Hyun Il replied :" I don't know, the line judge already made the call, further more, in China is also like this!"
If you can read Chinese, here's the link http://sports.sinchew-i.com/node/2936?tid=11
Let me share with you with recent matches in MO 2008.....

In MO, from 1st round till quarter final, MO organizer just used half court linesmen...in semifinal and Final, they use FULL linesmen...

This is what happened on 2 matches that I knew:

1. TH vs PSW
In 2nd set, 20-20, PSW rallied and smashed ( I think so) and it was IN..I , personally saw it with other teams ( also our ANTS witnessed it as he was very close at that match)...The linesman said " OUT"..instead of 21-20 for PSW, it was 21-20 for TH...Park Protested and umpire asked that linesman's decision and linesman insisted it was out...Park was unhappy and continue playing and lost next point then in3rd set, lost the match....TH later told the umpire that the shuttle was IN...but TH won the match already...Could umpire use TH's confession and replayed the 2nd match...??

TH knew it was IN and kept silent and let umpire to make decision and Park accepted the decision ( eventhough he could have won 2nd set)...also the linesman was sitting too far to judge that shuttle was OUT ( which was supposed to be IN)...

2. Greysia/Rizal vs Blair/Rayappan.
Also in similar situation, INA XD was leading 19-18 and shuttle landed and it was IN but because it was too far for linesman to judge and blocked by the pole, the call was called OUT...so instead of 20-18 for INA, it was 19 all and INA lost first set then 2nd set....Greysia looked at the umpire about the call eventhough umpire was closer than the linesmen...still umpire relied on linesmen...same thing on TH vs PSW..

All I say that it is tough..sometimes..you get bad calls either intentional or not...

LD mentioned that KOR robbed the match in South Morning China Post.....but then Kido/Hendra could say samething in China Master when INA got 4 or 5 service fault and 2 receiving fault which Fu/Cai won 21-16 and 21-17....
Kido/Hendra did not go too emotional..what I can say...it is very unfortunate thing happened ....

Just show it to you that some players cho0se not to argue and some choose to fight back...

The suspend him after the Olympic, now everybody is happy :D

agree... don't suspend him in the olympic... i want to see any player beat LD in Olympic, in his homesoil

I am not sure about CJ, but BCL isn't that close to being out of the top 4 I think... What's the chances of #5 catching up to CJ? Ants? Huangkwokhau?
LD and BCL are safe for Olympics...but for CJ, he has many points to defend..RU of German Open and AE and winner of Swiss...if CJ could not maintain that then he loses his top 4.....but he has to win Asian Championship and India Open to keep in top 4....Gade/Sony/Th has a chance to be top 4 depending on the outcomes in next 4 tournaments..

Spineless BWF won't dare step on China's toes. Max 1 game suspension (sacrifice the German Open) for LD.

LD and BCL are safe for Olympics...but for CJ, he has many points to defend..RU of German Open and AE and winner of Swiss...if CJ could not maintain that then he loses his top 4.....but he has to win Asian Championship and India Open to keep in top 4....Gade/Sony/Th has a chance to be top 4 depending on the outcomes in next 4 tournaments..

Hauge, I think the runner up of last year Germany Open and All England is Chen Yu not CJ. Chen Jin didn't participate GO/07 and he was semifinalist in All England/07.

Hauge, I think the runner up of last year Germany Open and All England is Chen Yu not CJ. Chen Jin didn't participate GO/07 and he was semifinalist in All England/07.
Really???Okay...oops...sorry..Haiya!!so CJ was the Swiss Open winner and SF in AE.

Thanks Clely!!

If they gonna suspend him... Suspend him for a Super series or 2. GP tourneys shouldn't count

Wa........... Some one on a winning streak. Teach me 4 digit!

No..He keeps winning the bets so it is otherway around..

Hahaha, put your money where your mouth is.:D

I hope I am wrong but if it is suspension, then LD is likely to miss an ALL-ENGLAND.

Thanks, yes indeed. I am not sure how many people owe me satays - from Australia to Indonesia.:D It is a good thing I have not kept count.:)

My advice to BWF:

Effective 2009 all SS Series must be held in

1. Singapore 8*
2. Japan 8*
3. England 8*
4. Denmark 8*
5. France 8*

WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP is to be held in the continent of America.
In my opinion, these countries are the most professional organizers. The linespersons are professional, unbiased.


You might want to watch the Copenhagen Masters MSF '07 between Gade and Jonassen, which is on youtube, and where line judging was a bit of a fight between Gade fans and Jonassen fans. :)

You might want to watch the Copenhagen Masters MSF '07 between Gade and Jonassen, which is on youtube, and where line judging was a bit of a fight between Gade fans and Jonassen fans. :)

aikes......
one great idea
employ all umpires and line judges from BC
GUARANTEED SATISFACTION
or all monies will be fully refund.......
kwun can get extra pocket money from this service.

aikes......
one great idea
employ all umpires and line judges from BC
GUARANTEED SATISFACTION
or all monies will be fully refund.......
kwun can get extra pocket money from this service.

I'll volunteer if permanent term of salary accomodation/hotel/flight/overseas-allowances/meal/bonus.

Prefered Kwun to lead BWF.:D

aikes......
one great idea
employ all umpires and line judges from BC
GUARANTEED SATISFACTION
or all monies will be fully refund.......
kwun can get extra pocket money from this service.

As I have said before just use International Line Judges as at recent Thomas Cup.

IBF use impartial international umpires, why not line judges as well?!

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=781384&postcount=57

LD and BCL are safe for Olympics...but for CJ, he has many points to defend..RU of German Open and AE and winner of Swiss...if CJ could not maintain that then he loses his top 4.....but he has to win Asian Championship and India Open to keep in top 4....Gade/Sony/Th has a chance to be top 4 depending on the outcomes in next 4 tournaments..

Really???Okay...oops...sorry..Haiya!!so CJ was the Swiss Open winner and SF in AE.

Thanks Clely!!

Correct,according to BWF website, CJ is 7,000 pts in front of Sony K. If China pulls whole team out of SS during OG qualifications, high probability of CJ dropping out of top 4 as the next China MS is at no 8. If CJ is not in top 4, China cant have 3 MS representatives in OG.

No 5 = Sony K
No 6 = Taufik H
No 7 = KJ
No 8 = Chen Y
No 9 = PG

I think in "Olympic ranking points", CJ is not in top4. Another factor that's against him is that he did pretty well in last Swiss Open (aka won the title), so I guess it's hard for him to add more points.

Correct,according to BWF website, CJ is 7,000 pts in front of Sony K. If China pulls whole team out of SS during OG qualifications, high probability of CJ dropping out of top 4 as the next China MS is at no 8. If CJ is not in top 4, China cant have 3 MS representatives in OG.

No 5 = Sony K
No 6 = Taufik H
No 7 = KJ
No 8 = Chen Y
No 9 = PG

As I have said before just use International Line Judges as at recent Thomas Cup.

IBF use impartial international umpires, why not line judges as well?!

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=781384&postcount=57but even unbiased officials could still make mistakes. On really close line shots, only slow-motion replay can tell the difference

And also the travel expense for international line judges may be enough to buy a few cameras already. Consider 8/court x 4 courts. At least 32 line judges' travel expense. If the equipment is expensive, the SS organizer can just buy 2 sets of it and ships them to the major SS events. Slow motion replay is only workable solution right now.

I think that LD should be suspended for 2 SS events. If TH did get suspended for 1 SS just for a "non-destructive" walking away from the game then LD should at least get 2 SS for not only arguing, but throwing a racket at a coach, as well wanting to attack someone with the racket. This is a much worse situation comapred to TH's. All TH did was walk away (which i think was a really calm thing to do, he was pissed but didn't let his anger explode on anyway, he just walked away). I'm sure he knows there were consequences for it but i'm sure he realized that if he caused a fiasco like the KO then it would have been much worse.

BWF shouldn't give a smaller or equal penalty to LD as to TH considering the difference in situation. In order to keep credibility BWF needs to be consistent and place a higher penalty on LD then TH. No matter how much that may hurt the chinese team, if a player does something wrong he needs to suffer the consequences. And if the Chinese team wants to pull out their whole team from those tournaments then be it, the BWF can't be blackmailed by a country to make their decisions. "If you suspend LD we are not sending any players to the two tournaments" What is that like 4th grade response?? Fine don't send your players, gives other countries a better chance.

I also think that the korean team should be penalized as well for the coaches outburst. As long as you are part of the team, let it be player coach or anyone else your actions reflect the teams image and therefore when you suffer the consequences, the team suffers as well. I don't think LD should be suspended from the OG, its a little too far from now. Although if this incident happended right before the OG then I would say suspend him from OG, BWF needs to make sure everyone understands the consequences of their actions.

Now if LD didn't throw his racket and theaten to attack people with his body language then I don't think he would have desrved a suspension but since he did then he deserves it.

..could go in the "Penalty for LinDan" thread..kwun?mods?:confused:

but even unbiased officials could still make mistakes. On really close line shots, only slow-motion replay can tell the difference

true, humans will make mistakes but at least we know they are unbiased rather than the obviously biased ones :D

true, humans will make mistakes but at least we know they are unbiased rather than the obviously biased ones :D

but to the victims, all bad calls seem biased to them:p

but to the victims, all bad calls seem biased to them:p

No. If the linejudge is neutral (eg. no connection at all to either player), then I would assume that the player is smart enough to know there is no intended error.

Line Judges not only need to be neutral....... they also need to be attentive to their job (looking at the line).

Should a line judge be screwing up more than 5% irrespective of human error or ill intention, then there is valid reason already to say that 'the line judge is not doing his / her job' and should be prepared for wild accusation such as being called 'biased'.

It's only natural for it to happen.

While fans & foes of Lin Dan are still arguing who is right & who is wrong, or should be disciplined or not. On the other hand, I think LD should apologize to his fans & supporters for throwing his racquet.
According to the rule book, a red card should have been given for this action & one point would be penalized, LD would have been lost the game automatically. If the racquet hit someone then I think he would derserve a black card & be disqualified right away & would be disciplined by BWF accordingly.
On the contrary, LD was yellowed carded on the spot for throwing his racquet & I think that was the end of it & no further action would be taken.
On the other hand, it is too bad that LYB supports him all the way even though throwing a racquet is absolutely unacceptable in this game of badminton. What can I say?
Have a nice day!

IMHO,I think both Lin Dan and Li Mao were in wrong.For Li Mao,for whatever his intention is whether is to provoke Lin Dan by using some bad words or he is just purely wanted to defend LHI,he is still in wrong by stood up to intefere the on going match.He is a coach and should not intefere the match,his job is only to help his player with all the tactic.For Lin Dan,i agree that he should protest because we clearly seen that all the unfair linecalls towards him but not with this way.I feel he is too rash by doing this.If Li Mao intention is to provoke him,then Lin Dan already fall to his trap.If this incident did not happen and Lin Dan lost his match eventually,all of us will pity him and will surely defend him.But now he lost both his sportmanship and the match,all of us are pointing finger to him because what he does was wrong as a professional player.

the worse is that Lin Dan is still finding excuses for what he did.

IMHO,I think both Lin Dan and Li Mao were in wrong.For Li Mao,for whatever his intention is whether is to provoke Lin Dan by using some bad words or he is just purely wanted to defend LHI,he is still in wrong by stood up to intefere the on going match.He is a coach and should not intefere the match,his job is only to help his player with all the tactic.For Lin Dan,i agree that he should protest because we clearly seen that all the unfair linecalls towards him but not with this way.I feel he is too rash by doing this.If Li Mao intention is to provoke him,then Lin Dan already fall to his trap.If this incident did not happen and Lin Dan lost his match eventually,all of us will pity him and will surely defend him.But now he lost both his sportmanship and the match,all of us are pointing finger to him because what he does was wrong as a professional player.

..*sigh* what happened guys???:(...You guys gotta calm down to avoid locking another thread..*sigh* now, no one can post in the recently locked thread?!:confused: :(:p..
Anyway, i'll post my replies of a few posts in that thread here instead..:p
the new video isn't telling us anything new. we already know he threw the racket to the direction of Li Mao. the video just show it from a different camera angle. so i don't know why people are overreacting for yet another time.
...yes, concur with kwun..
"I can understand how Lin Dan feels", says the umpire
...
(Best that I can do)
..very good & and thanks for your effort in translating!:) It really sheds a bit more light to the whole incident, esp. coming from arguably the most "neutral" person during the match.
Yup....well-said. Its amazing really how some ppl still can defend Lin Dan at this stage The discussions at chinabadminton.com were even more heated, bordering to almost chaos Luckily, I am just a reader there
:p..hehe, badMania, looks like you've gotten your feet wet now in this incident, heh??..:) ;)

the worse is that Lin Dan is still finding excuses for what he did.

Yes, Lin Dan still has yet to do damage control, he under-estimated how tarnishing this incidence has done to his image. To complicate matters, the Chinese coaching staff continues to make up stories to defend him. Lin Dan is sinking too deep to pull himself out of this one, unfortunately.

Yes, Lin Dan still has yet to do damage control, he under-estimated how tarnishing this incidence has done to his image. To complicate matters, the Chinese coaching staff continues to make up stories to defend him. Lin Dan is sinking too deep to pull himself out of this one, unfortunately.

He has to learn how to contain his uncivilised behavior - LCW had the same done to him in China with unfair calls but did he show any unruly behavior apart from protesting ?

Throwing his racket at an opposing coach is a 'No No' - an act of aggression which does not endear him to anyone. If he does not apologise, fans would boo him everywhere he plays. But if he does maybe he can salvage some pride back - I don't believe he will not apologise, not unless he wants 'boos' to be directed at him.

The Straits Times
January 30, 2008

Reuters
Beijing

LIN SPARKS ROW BUT WILL NOT APOLOGIZE

World No 1 Lin Dan has refused to apologize for his part in an ugly scuffle with South Korea's singles coach, Li Mao, during the final of the Korea Open Super Series at the weekend.

Lin, beaten by Korean Lee Hyun Il in Seoul on Sunday, appeared to throw his racket in fellow-Chinese Li's direction after protesting a line call that awarded a match point to Lee.

The incident sparked a shouting match between Lin and Li.

Play was halted for about two mintues as match officials struggled to restrain world champion Lin.

His coach, Zhong Bo, also intervened, pushing Li, who shoved him back. Officials had to step in to separate them.

Lin, China's best hope for the men's singles gold at this year's Beijing Olympics, went on to lose the final set 23-25 after being given a yellow card by Czech referee Mojmir Hnilica.

Lin refused to apologize for losing his temper, saying the Korean team had won "dishonourably" and that Li had taunted him after the referee awarded the match point.

"He verbally attacked me. He is also a Chinese. I could not accept him saying such things," the Beijing News auoted Lin as saying.

"The Korean team won very dishonourably, and I lost very unhappily.

"I will not apologise for theis matter."

Li Mao, who left China in 1999 to coach overseas after falling out with China's current national coach Li Yongbo, said Lin had been "rude and immoral".

He added that the Korean team would file a complaint with the Badminton World Federation, according tot the China Daily.

"I have never seen such an ill-cultivated player in my coaching career," the paper quoted Li as saying after the match.

i would like to read the umpire's point of view from a well known and respected neutral newspaper or reporter. the same with LD's comment and LM's comment. :)

i would like to read the umpire's point of view from a well known and respected neutral newspaper or reporter. the same with LD's comment and LM's comment. :)

You mean the Straits Times is not well known and respected ?

You mean the Straits Times is not well known and respected ?

i did not mean that :D i mean i want to read more from neutral journalists. sorry i my previous post suggested otherwise. my mistake for not phrasing it right. :)

Correct,according to BWF website, CJ is 7,000 pts in front of Sony K. If China pulls whole team out of SS during OG qualifications, high probability of CJ dropping out of top 4 as the next China MS is at no 8. If CJ is not in top 4, China cant have 3 MS representatives in OG.

Really???Okay...oops...sorry..Haiya!!so CJ was the Swiss Open winner and SF in AE.
If that is the case, it will be a big blow for CHN only having LD & BCL for MS.

You mean the Straits Times is not well known and respected ?

That report was reproduced from Reuters, not reported directly by a ST journalist, it would seem.

That report was reproduced from Reuters, not reported directly by a ST journalist, it would seem.

The exact same news piece appeared in Msia's The Star yesterday. Also taken from Reuters. I already posted tThe Star's news, hmmmm in one of the many threads abt this incident.

The loser of this incident is not Lin Dan, instead is Li Mao. We all know how much Li Mao wanted to coach for his own country and hope he will have chance to return one day and officially, that door is closed!
I really feel sad for him, how often we see someone who wants so bad to do something for his country get rejected over and over again?
Is not Li Mao doesn't love his country rather is the country doesn't want his service :crying:

The loser of this incident is not Lin Dan, instead is Li Mao. We all know how much Li Mao wanted to coach for his own country and hope he will have chance to return one day and officially, that door is closed!
I really feel sad for him, how often we see someone who wants so bad to do something for his country get rejected over and over again?
Is not Li Mao doesn't love his country rather is the country doesn't want his service :crying:

Absolutely agree. I'm not saying he is a "traitor" but I would NEVER want to see my fellow Msians (though I'm NOT in Msia) losing, be it in Sports, Business or Politics. I have full doubts in LM for his love of his born country, although his is working for Korea. That's the human values, I think.

But again, sports are highly competitive and results-driven. Perhaps he was trying to prove to the world that he could produce another LCW (in this case, it's LHI) to beat the Great Wall Team (particularly LD). And his "services" would be very much sort after.

The bottom line is ==> ethnic/patriotism vs professionalism. ;)

I think Li Mao is only honest to his job, everything else is secondary! Coaching or not in China is not in his mind anymore, I think!

I think Li Mao is only honest to his job, everything else is secondary! Coaching or not in China is not in his mind anymore, I think!
Er, you are very wrong here.
China is certainly on his mind... although not in a benevolent or fond sense ;)

The door is wide open for Li Mao to Indonesia or Indonesian professional badminton clubs.:D

The door is wide open for Li Mao to Indonesia or Indonesian professional badminton clubs.:D

Welcome to PBSI!

The loser of this incident is not Lin Dan, instead is Li Mao. We all know how much Li Mao wanted to coach for his own country and hope he will have chance to return one day and officially, that door is closed!
I really feel sad for him, how often we see someone who wants so bad to do something for his country get rejected over and over again?
Is not Li Mao doesn't love his country rather is the country doesn't want his service :crying:


China's loss is somebody else's gain. Don't feel bad for Li Mao, I can see he is enjoying his coaching stint in Korea, particularly so with that big win. Did you not see the 'high five' he gave LHI ? It was compensation enough after his confrontation with the ill-mannered LD on the day.

Indonesia have enough good Singles players. Singapore needs Li Mao to enhance the young and current players.

:rolleyes:Welcome to PBSI!

I'm just wondering whether Indonesia has hired any foreign coaches for its national teams? I can't remember any. :rolleyes:

Indonesia is an exporter of coaches just like China. Imagine China having to rely on foreign coaches. What will LYB think? :rolleyes:

Well LYB will be thinking of what are they going to think of himself.

:rolleyes:

I'm just wondering whether Indonesia has hired any foreign coaches for its national teams? I can't remember any. :rolleyes:

Indonesia is an exporter of coaches just like China. Imagine China having to rely on foreign coaches. What will LYB think? :rolleyes:

Long long time ago, the "thing", Master Tang from China resided in Indonesia and coached there for very very long time before he packed and returned to coach in China until now.

Don't know where I should be posting this (too many threads on LD vs LM). Now I have a suggestion (not on LD side nor LM side but just a general view).
I felt that let this encounter be a wake up call to set a new rullings.
Badminton Coach SHOULD NOT BE ALLOW INTO THE COURT area to give tips to players. (a good example is Tennis). After all I believe in the mids of the games the players are so engross in the games that I believe whatever their coaches tells them falls to deft ears . Besides their coaches views will only make the players confused in the mids of the games. Players should be able to use their own judgement and skill to full practise duing matches and should not be depending on their coach 'on the spot feedback' on the game.
My vote is COACH SHOULD NOT BE ON THE COURT!

:rolleyes:

I'm just wondering whether Indonesia has hired any foreign coaches for its national teams? I can't remember any. :rolleyes:

Indonesia is an exporter of coaches just like China. Imagine China having to rely on foreign coaches. What will LYB think? :rolleyes:

Indonesia exported not only coaches, but also players to China... :p Wang Wenzhou, Tang Xianhu, Hou Jiajiang, Fang Kaixiang, Liang Chuxia... were Indonesian-born-players...-turned-coaches who were later absorbed by China... :p

Long long time ago, the "thing", Master Tang from China resided in Indonesia and coached there for very very long time before he packed and returned to coach in China until now.

Before Tang Xianhu became master Tang, he was already quite a famously-talented Junior player in Indonesia... Like many Chinese descendants, he packed and returned to play in China. In China, he further refined his skill and became "Master Tang" later on...

Ahh, no worries for LD there. The hordes of young beady-eyed fans who think he's cool and cute will stand up for him.

I think LD and LM were both unprofessional in the match.

LD should never throw his racket at a direction where there is someone. If that racket hitted LM, I think it is going to be court case. Very stupid thing to do even to vend his anger. Although I did broke several rackets in the past throwing my rackets on the floor. I never aim it at someone. I have to say that is a wrong thing to do even for myself.

LM should never protest or trying to put pressure on the umpire. As for the verbally abuse, if he did so(no idea what exactly did he said), then it is very unprofessional as a coach.

I think LD offence is a more serious offence of the two. Physical abuse is worse than verbal abuse, even though it is a miss, it is still an attempt. I think LD's fans is not going to like the outcome from BWF.

If LD play on without arguing, I would have salute him as a cool head cucumber that set an example as an idol. Unfortunately that is not the case.

Anyway, he could have won the match if he had been more offensive rather than playing rally with LHI when he is leading 23-22.

Indonesia exported not only coaches, but also players to China... :p Wang Wenzhou, Tang Xianhu, Hou Jiajiang, Fang Kaixiang, Liang Chuxia... were Indonesian-born-players...-turned-coaches who were later absorbed by China... :p

Before Tang Xianhu became master Tang, he was already quite a famously-talented Junior player in Indonesia... Like many Chinese descendants, he packed and returned to play in China. In China, he further refined his skill and became "Master Tang" later on...

I wouldn't call the players were exported to China. Many were driven out Indonesia by the government in the early 1960s :eek:

For the "Documentary- History of China Badminton" (in Chinese)

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50768

Indonesia exported not only coaches, but also players to China... :p Wang Wenzhou, Tang Xianhu, Hou Jiajiang, Fang Kaixiang, Liang Chuxia... were Indonesian-born-players...-turned-coaches who were later absorbed by China... :p

Before Tang Xianhu became master Tang, he was already quite a famously-talented Junior player in Indonesia... Like many Chinese descendants, he packed and returned to play in China. In China, he further refined his skill and became "Master Tang" later on...

Thank you Krisna, I also thought Tang was Indonesia-born but wasn't too sure.

Wasn't it Sukarno's anti-Communist policy that drove Indonesian-Chinese to China since China was the biggest Communist country posing the greatest threat to his regime. I wouldn't want to use the word "back" to China since those talented players were all born in Indonesia although their forefathers were born in China, like many in South-east Asia.

In a sense, these Indonesian-Chinese players who later taught badminton to the Chinese became an "indirect export" for Indonesia, until their return home to Indonesia to become coaches.

I wonder why they should want to return to Indonesia? Was it that living conditions in China were even worse off than in Indonesia at that time? Or the political climate became more endurable? Or that they want to return to more familiar surroundings with their families and friends in Indonesia?

However, Tang and Hou (?) returned back to China later, perhaps with the exception of Fang and Liang? :)

When did Tang Xianhu return to China the second time? Was it before or after the pogroms in May, 1998, targeting the Chinese Indonesians? I'm sure the rape and killing in 1998 had nothing to do with anti-Communist.

When did Tang Xianhu return to China the second time? Was it before or after the pogroms in May, 1998, targeting the Chinese Indonesians? I'm sure the rape and killing in 1998 had nothing to do with anti-Communist.

No the 1997/1998 one wasnt abt Anti-Communist, but sorry, it's sensitive issue... maybe you PM the Indonesians better. Or google it...
I mentioned it one time in one of the threads, Indonesia BCer werent happy..

It does not matter how you phrase it.. Quite simply the line call given when LHI smashed "OUT" of court giving LD another match point was easily one of the worst cases of "cheating" I have ever witnessed.....If you "LM" can look at that call & argue it was the correct call "shame on you" you need to take a good look at the ethos in which you are coaching the game. Out is out no matter which country you play in...If you still believe this was a good call visit "YOU TUBE" & you will clearly see daylight between the shuttle & the line... If you are still in doubt "which you wont be" watch LHI's reaction to the call. He knew himself the shuttle was out. I waited until I could get a good look at the call until I made my mind up. I have no bias in either countries direction so unlike some replies I have read I try to make my reply an honest reflection of what I see in fact what we all saw..I read in a previous post somewhere that maybe it is time for SS events to be line judged by impartial individuals. Watching this charade it appears the time has now come when certain associations must be taken to task.....as blatant "CHEATING" has no place in our sport:mad:

Thank you Krisna, I also thought Tang was Indonesia-born but wasn't too sure.

Wasn't it Sukarno's anti-Communist policy that drove Indonesian-Chinese to China since China was the biggest Communist country posing the greatest threat to his regime. I wouldn't want to use the word "back" to China since those talented players were all born in Indonesia although their forefathers were born in China, like many in South-east Asia.

In a sense, these Indonesian-Chinese players who later taught badminton to the Chinese became an "indirect export" for Indonesia, until their return home to Indonesia to become coaches.

I wonder why they should want to return to Indonesia? Was it that living conditions in China were even worse off than in Indonesia at that time? Or the political climate became more endurable? Or that they want to return to more familiar surroundings with their families and friends in Indonesia?

However, Tang and Hou (?) returned back to China later, perhaps with the exception of Fang and Liang? :)

It was Suharto, with strong support from the US and to a lesser extent Australia, who went on a killer witch-hunt to kill off the communist party members in Indonesia. Many Chinese were killed, many fled as they were being hunted down by Muslim death squads. The occupation of East Timor was also part of the US-encouraged strategy.

Thank you Krisna, I also thought Tang was Indonesia-born but wasn't too sure.

Wasn't it Sukarno's anti-Communist policy that drove Indonesian-Chinese to China since China was the biggest Communist country posing the greatest threat to his regime. I wouldn't want to use the word "back" to China since those talented players were all born in Indonesia although their forefathers were born in China, like many in South-east Asia.

In a sense, these Indonesian-Chinese players who later taught badminton to the Chinese became an "indirect export" for Indonesia, until their return home to Indonesia to become coaches.

I wonder why they should want to return to Indonesia? Was it that living conditions in China were even worse off than in Indonesia at that time? Or the political climate became more endurable? Or that they want to return to more familiar surroundings with their families and friends in Indonesia?

However, Tang and Hou (?) returned back to China later, perhaps with the exception of Fang and Liang? :)

Sukarno was very "close" to the communist countries likes Soviet & China. if I'm not wrong, Sukarno admired Zhou En Lai

It was Suharto, with strong support from the US and to a lesser extent Australia, who went on a killer witch-hunt to kill off the communist party members in Indonesia. Many Chinese were killed, many fled as they were being hunted down by Muslim death squads. The occupation of East Timor was also part of the US-encouraged strategy.

correct information!

Sukarno was very "close" to the communist countries likes Soviet & China. if I'm not wrong, Sukarno admired Zhou En Lai

Yes I think both you and taneepak remembered those events much better than me. ;)

Recently, when President Suharto died, some mention was made in the media about his anti-Communist policies and in fact it appeared that it was President Sukarno's daughter, President Megawati, who initiated the relaxation of some of those strict policies which now enabled the Indonesian Chinese to practise more of their own culture, including the celebration of the Lunar New Year in the open. :)