the newest clip

[w3wmfhe]

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=QsdZUuWaPk4 (http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=QsdZUuWaPk4)

this is newest clip , this is showing lindan was too far away from lm and with that kind crow ..lm said zhongbo ( china mens' single coach) was closer 2 him and he did even hear anything , how can lindan heard what he said

[martin8768]

wow that was nasty :|

[Erwin Kyoto]

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=QsdZUuWaPk4 (http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=QsdZUuWaPk4)

this is newest clip , this is showing lindan was too far away from lm and with that kind crow ..lm said zhongbo ( china mens' single coach) was closer 2 him and he did even hear anything , how can lindan heard what he said

wow...I cant say anything about LD action in this clip...this first time in world badminton tournament, one player throw his racket to coach....:eek::eek::eek::eek:

thanks w3wmfhe....any other clips:D

[HiddenPower]

that is something.
Until someone else does a jump throw no one can break LD's record. :)

[ssjtygrysek]

A jump throw, that's something. I think TH should do a backhand throw, that would top LDs throw for sure. :-)

[cooler]

as it was down the line smash, LHI had a good view of it too and kept quiet about it.

[kungfukid]

Lin Dan is not only lack of sportsmanship, he has no manner too.

[nibaxiang]

as it was down the line smash, LHI had a good view of it too and kept quiet about it.

And the video does NOT showing things LM had done before the throwing thing either...

What should I do to trigger LD throwing his At700 to me? Hmmm, take some thoughts... ;-))

[ye333]

I don't think you can blame LHI. He did what is normal these days. :cool: And how can he be 100% sure it was out? He was not concentrating on the path of the shuttlecock anyway -- I think it is common sense that you should focus on what your opponent is doing instead of following the shuttle you just hit. :)

Back to the point. :D I guess in the future more ppl will fish out their camera when the game is interrupted by controversial calls, with the hope that they will catch the first over-the-head throw, jumping throw, backhand throw or even jumping backhand throw in badminton history! :D


as it was down the line smash, LHI had a good view of it too and kept quiet about it.

[cooler]

I don't think you can blame LHI. He did what is normal these days. :cool: And how can he be 100% sure it was out?

If LHI isnt 100% sure, why did he point to the line to indicate it is in to the umpire?

He was not concentrating on the path of the shuttlecock anyway -- I think it is common sense that you should focus on what your opponent is doing instead of following the shuttle you just hit. :)

it must be a new smashing technique that i dont know about:rolleyes:



Back to the point. :D I guess in the future more ppl will fish out their camera when the game is interrupted by controversial calls, with the hope that they will catch the first over-the-head throw, jumping throw, backhand throw or even jumping backhand throw in badminton history! :D;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

[ye333]

Players do that all the time. It has become normal. In CO07, I think BCL also did that when LCW protested the line call.


If LHI isnt 100% sure, why did he point to the line to indicate it is in to the umpire?

[cooler]

Players do that all the time. It has become normal. In CO07, I think BCL also did that when LCW protested the line call.IMO, in 07 china open, the questionable calls were all very close or hard to tell** and the match it seem, BCL was dominating over LCW and the score different is much wider. At the 08 KO MSF, 22-22, rubber set, 1 point gain or lost is 50% toward winning or losing a match... a big difference.

**To support your claim that bad line calls between CO and KO are all the same, i wouldnt mind if u show me some video clips that help me to decide that the CO bad line calls were 'obviously' incorrect... The youtube videos i saw of the CO questionable calls were, imo, hard to tell.

[ye333]

Not "all very close" to me and many other ppl. :cool:

FYI, BCL was NOT dominating LCW until the 11:10 call. I totally disagree with your "big difference" theory but I think that topic has been argued extensively after CO07 so let's not get into that.


IMO, in 07 china open, the questionable calls were all very close or hard to tell** and the match it seem, BCL was dominating over LCW and the score different is much wider. At the 08 KO MSF, 22-22, rubber set, 1 point gain or lost is 50% toward winning or losing a match... a big difference.

**To support your claim that bad line calls between CO and KO are all the same, i wouldnt mind if u show me some video clips that help me to decide that the CO bad line calls were 'obviously' incorrect... The youtube videos i saw of the CO questionable calls were, imo, hard to tell.

[huangkwokhau]

In CO and China Master, China used " service faults" and " receiving faults" trick to all foreign players....thats you can not judge ....very smart way to destroy other players' confident...I have to say linemen in China especially in Guanzhou was much better..except using the trick of service and receiving faults...

[vching]

oh my... now I am totally convinced Lin Dan should be suspended with a large fine!

[super__gao]

I don't think you can blame LHI. He did what is normal these days. :cool: And how can he be 100% sure it was out? He was not concentrating on the path of the shuttlecock anyway -- I think it is common sense that you should focus on what your opponent is doing instead of following the shuttle you just hit. :)



if i were to hit a straight line smash, i would know instantly if it was in or out. even before the shuttle hits the ground, i would have a a good idea if my shot was in or out. i've been playing regularly for about, 4 almost 5 years.

LHI has been playing badminton for something like 20 years of his life, almost training everyday, he has one the best on court vision of all players EVER, and you think that he wouldn't know if he has hit a shot in or out??!?!?!?!?! you are really underestimating how good pro badminton players are.
come on, get real, LHI knew that shot was out.

[huangkwokhau]

if i were to hit a straight line smash, i would know instantly if it was in or out. even before the shuttle hits the ground, i would have a a good idea if my shot was in or out. i've been playing regularly for about, 4 almost 5 years.

LHI has been playing badminton for something like 20 years of his life, almost training everyday, he has one the best on court vision of all players EVER, and you think that he wouldn't know if he has hit a shot in or out??!?!?!?!?! you are really underestimating how good pro badminton players are.
come on, get real, LHI knew that shot was out.
Yes...players will know....but so what? he has right to chose to keep quiet...samething happening also in any tournaments...just like in HKO/CO as I am sure LD/BCL knew it was out...but they also chose to let umpires make decision...same thing with TH in MO against PSW...he knew the shuttle was IN but he kept quiet...

[hcyong]

LHI did what any shuttler would do. I'm not saying it is correct, but even LD would have done it if their roles were switched.

LD was very confrontational, pointing his racket at LHI, even though he knows the only one who can do anything about it is the umpire. This confrontation probably incensed Li Mao and the whole thing escalated to the racket throwing which seems very vicious to me. If their roles were switched, I don't think LHI would have acted the same way.

[super__gao]

Yes...players will know....but so what? he has right to chose to keep quiet...samething happening also in any tournaments...just like in HKO/CO as I am sure LD/BCL knew it was out...but they also chose to let umpires make decision...same thing with TH in MO against PSW...he knew the shuttle was IN but he kept quiet...

you nailed it. that's a major problem we have in badminton. the superstars of badminton should be just that, SUPERSTARS!!! you guys now wonder why badminton is not too popular everywhere except for asia?
there is a total lack of player interaction and sportsmanship. many of the badminton players don't seem to have the word "sportsmanship" in their vocabulary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuT2p3ABcCQ
yah, sports like hockey and football (american) might seem appauling to you. i don't blame you guys for thinking this, their are fights, hitting, (lots and lots and lots and lots)^1000000 trash talk and other incidences which would make the LD Li Mao fiasco look like nothing.
but amongst all that stuff, there is more kindness and sportsmanship than what most asian countries percieve these sports to have.

[hcyong]

you nailed it. that's a major problem we have in badminton. the superstars of badminton should be just that, SUPERSTARS!!! you guys now wonder why badminton is not too popular everywhere except for asia?
there is a total lack of player interaction and sportsmanship. many of the badminton players don't seem to have the word "sportsmanship" in their vocabulary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuT2p3ABcCQ
yah, sports like hockey and football (american) might seem appauling to you. i don't blame you guys for thinking this, their are fights, hitting, (lots and lots and lots and lots)^1000000 trash talk and other incidences which would make the LD Li Mao fiasco look like nothing.
but amongst all that stuff, there is more kindness and sportsmanship than what most asian countries percieve these sports to have.

There is also a lot of kindness and sportsmanship in badminton. Yes, not when the officials ruled wrongly in your favour, but name me a sport in which players would consistently overrule such judgings.

[Birdwood]

Yes...players will know....but so what? he has right to chose to keep quiet...samething happening also in any tournaments...just like in HKO/CO as I am sure LD/BCL knew it was out...but they also chose to let umpires make decision...same thing with TH in MO against PSW...he knew the shuttle was IN but he kept quiet...

LHI did not just keep quiet. In the video, he was pointing to LD ans saying the shot was good. That made LD more angry.

[super__gao]

There is also a lot of kindness and sportsmanhttp://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/images/buttons/edit.gif (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=783444)ship in badminton. Yes, not when the officials ruled wrongly in your favour, but name me a sport in which players would consistently overrule such judgings.

i hate to be the pessimistic guy here, but from what i've seen in big international tournaments, players will do anything to get that 1 point. and it's not just certain players from certain countries, i've many different players keep silent when they know the line judge has made a bad call.

could you rephrase that? i dont really get it :confused: sorry my english sucks:(

[hcyong]

LHI did not just keep quiet. In the video, he was pointing to LD ans saying the shot was good. That made LD more angry.

In comparison to LD, he can be considered mute.

[hcyong]

i hate to be the pessimistic guy here, but from what i've seen in big international tournaments, players will do anything to get that 1 point. and it's not just certain players from certain countries, i've many different players keep silent when they know the line judge has made a bad call.

could you rephrase that? i dont really get it :confused: sorry my english sucks:(

I was saying it's only human to keep quiet when a ruling is to your advantage, and it's not just in badminton.

Players will do anything to get that 1 point? I will have to disagree with that. I don't know which matches you watch, but in the ones I watch, players depend on their own skills to get that 1 point.

[ctjcad]

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=QsdZUuWaPk4 (http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=QsdZUuWaPk4)

this is newest clip , this is showing lindan was too far away from lm and with that kind crow ..lm said zhongbo ( china mens' single coach) was closer 2 him and he did even hear anything , how can lindan heard what he said

And the video does NOT showing things LM had done before the throwing thing either...
... ;-))
..yeah, it's a bit more complete, but the scene doesn't show anything much new to what we thought happened. Hmm, i was expecting a different camera angle to the action, showing more towards LiMao's area just as LD's outburst occurred...

LHI did what any shuttler would do. I'm not saying it is correct, but even LD would have done it if their roles were switched.

LD was very confrontational, pointing his racket at LHI, even though he knows the only one who can do anything about it is the umpire. This confrontation probably incensed Li Mao and the whole thing escalated to the racket throwing which seems very vicious to me. If their roles were switched, I don't think LHI would have acted the same way.
..i would somewhat concur, as i noticed throughout the whole match, LHI had a few complaints. Even then, his reactions afterwards were mostly calm; almost nonchalant..:cool:

[Birdwood]

In comparison to LD, he can be considered mute.

That's because he was not the one got the bad call :cool:

[Birdwood]

And the video does NOT showing things LM had done before the throwing thing either...

What should I do to trigger LD throwing his At700 to me? Hmmm, take some thoughts... ;-))

What LM did was in his own words in the thread: "Reply from Li Mao" http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51838

[Birdwood]

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=QsdZUuWaPk4 (http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=QsdZUuWaPk4)

this is newest clip , this is showing lindan was too far away from lm and with that kind crow ..lm said zhongbo ( china mens' single coach) was closer 2 him and he did even hear anything , how can lindan heard what he said

LM was close to LD enough. ZB was seated on the side and might have been closer to LM in distance. LM jumped out of his chair and moved forward a couple of steps, directly facing LD and saying things LD could hear, but ZB could not because he was not facing LM at the time :eek:

[hcyong]

That's because he was not the one got the bad call :cool:

So, you agree that LHI did not make much noise then? IMHO, LHI was pretty cool (at least on the outside) about the whole thing.

[super__gao]

I was saying it's only human to keep quiet when a ruling is to your advantage, and it's not just in badminton.

Players will do anything to get that 1 point? I will have to disagree with that. I don't know which matches you watch, but in the ones I watch, players depend on their own skills to get that 1 point.

exactly, it's human nature to keep quiet. but COULD LHI have said something about?!?!? of course he could have. and at 21-21 i don't think too many players would do the same.

well, anything, as in, argue calls, dive around, use mind tricks to screw with your opponent aka asking for breaks, refusing to change shuttles that kinda stuff.

[ye333]

I don't think LM was close to LD. If you check the video (the TV broadcast one), LM was just a few steps in front of his seat when the camera turned to him, and that's about 1/2 or 1 second after LD threw the racket. So at the moment of LD throwing, LM should be about two steps back and pretty close to his seat.

Also, remember that at that time, they are in a big room with thousands of ppl, and those ppl were all talking freely (LD has already made a scene on court and ppl must be discussing about this). When I was a student, if all the 100 or 200 ppl were talking freely, the teacher's words are really hard to catch unless you sit in the front few rows. Even when most ppl are just murmuring, the teacher's voice also decays really fast with distance.

I think LD could hear LM saying something, but I don't think he heard every word clearly.


LM was close to LD enough. ZB was seated on the side and might have been closer to LM in distance. LM jumped out of his chair and moved forward a couple of steps, directly facing LD and saying things LD could hear, but ZB could not because he was not facing LM at the time :eek:

[hcyong]

exactly, it's human nature to keep quiet. but COULD LHI have said something about?!?!? of course he could have. and at 21-21 i don't think too many players would do the same.

well, anything, as in, argue calls, dive around, use mind tricks to screw with your opponent aka asking for breaks, refusing to change shuttles that kinda stuff.

So, arguing calls, mind tricks and stalling for time are exlusive to badminton?

How is diving around an unsporting gesture?

I'll grant you one point. Refusing to change shuttles is definitely something that you can only see in badminton.

Note in case someone takes this out of context: This discussion started when super_gao said that badminton is unkind and unsporting compared to other sports like American football or ice hockey.

[badMania]

exactly, it's human nature to keep quiet. but COULD LHI have said something about?!?!? of course he could have. and at 21-21 i don't think too many players would do the same.

well, anything, as in, argue calls, dive around, use mind tricks to screw with your opponent aka asking for breaks, refusing to change shuttles that kinda stuff.

Usually, when u are at a receiving end of something that will favor, u tend to keep quiet. U can call it behaving not in a sportsmanship manner, but, that's within his rights to do so :o

I don't blame Lee Hyun Il for behaving the way he did on Sunday.

[ye333]

I think LD's "emotional reaction" as a tactic. He made a scene at the very first bad call. Also right after the 21:21 bad call, he chose to shout to LHI first -- it doesn't make sense since LHI cannot overrule the call, unless he was in fact trying to disturb LHI.


..yeah, it's a bit more complete, but the scene doesn't show anything much new to what we thought happened. Hmm, i was expecting a different camera angle to the action, showing more towards LiMao's area just as LD's outburst occurred...

..i would somewhat concur, as i noticed throughout the whole match, LHI had a few complaints. Even then, his reactions afterwards were mostly calm; almost nonchalant..:cool:

[badMania]

Note in case someone takes this out of context: This discussion started when super_gao said that badminton is unkind and unsporting compared to other sports like American football or ice hockey.

What about football. Sometimes, when a player gets injured, the opponents will still keep passing the balls and occassionally, scored goals too :eek:

Yeah, the one at the receiving end complaint but to no avail.

Mind games, tactics, etc happen in all sports. Period.

[super__gao]

What about football. Sometimes, when a player gets injured, the opponents will still keep passing the balls and occassionally, scored goals too :eek:

Yeah, the one at the receiving end complaint but to no avail.

Mind games, tactics, etc happen in all sports. Period.

well thats not the players fault. if the referee doesn't blow the whistle then play goes on. if a player from the opposite team does help out the injured guy, and because of this the other team scores or something, then the guy who helped the injured guy will probably benched by the coach for the next couple games.
again, in nature human beings are not nice

[super__gao]

Usually, when u are at a receiving end of something that will favor, u tend to keep quiet. U can call it behaving not in a sportsmanship manner, but, that's within his rights to do so :o

I don't blame Lee Hyun Il for behaving the way he did on Sunday.

thanks for proving my point. in nature, human beings are not nice

[badMania]

again, in nature human beings are not nice

So, Lee Hyun Il's reaction was natural :cool:

[xXazn_romeoXx]

well i wouldn't say Lee Hyun Il was totally sportsman like, he did nothing to break up the fight =P, he stood away and let his coach and his opponent go at it...if he had any sportsmanship, or kindness as everyone claims he does, he would try to get in between and stop it. if a fight broke out in my match, i'd do everything i could to break it up. it's just bad habit to stand and watch. =P but that's just me. i'm not sure if you see a fight out in the street, if you would go try and stop it and be the nice guy. lol

[badMania]

well i wouldn't say Lee Hyun Il was totally sportsman like, he did nothing to break up the fight =P, he stood away and let his coach and his opponent go at it...if he had any sportsmanship, or kindness as everyone claims he does, he would try to get in between and stop it. if a fight broke out in my match, i'd do everything i could to break it up. it's just bad habit to stand and watch. =P but that's just me. i'm not sure if you see a fight out in the street, if you would go try and stop it and be the nice guy. lol

Most ppl will think: that's other ppl's business...so...why bother :D

I have witnessed ppl pickpocketing right in front of me...but...because I was alone...I would have risked being beaten up if I shouted out loud that there's a pickpocket here!

That's just human nature....being selfish-minded, isn't it :o?

[ye333]

Also I think it's a good idea to let the professionals (umpire and line judges) make the decision.

What LHI did was normal. I don't understand why many ppl blame him for not being a Saint.


Usually, when u are at a receiving end of something that will favor, u tend to keep quiet. U can call it behaving not in a sportsmanship manner, but, that's within his rights to do so :o

I don't blame Lee Hyun Il for behaving the way he did on Sunday.

[xXazn_romeoXx]

Most ppl will think: that's other ppl's business...so...why bother :D

I have witnessed ppl pickpocketing right in front of me...but...because I was alone...I would have risked being beaten up if I shouted out loud that there's a pickpocket here!

That's just human nature....being selfish-minded, isn't it :o?

very, but according to sportsmanship, that's not it. and if you watch football or hockey, you'd see teammates and players trying to break it up fights. and Lin Dan and Lee Hyun Il are players on the same circuit, they must at least know of each other well enough to be acquantances, and be friends enough to stop them from fighting in badminton(?) LOL right...

[hcyong]

well thats not the players fault. if the referee doesn't blow the whistle then play goes on. if a player from the opposite team does help out the injured guy, and because of this the other team scores or something, then the guy who helped the injured guy will probably benched by the coach for the next couple games.
again, in nature human beings are not nice

So, if it happens in other sports, then in nature human beings are not nice, but if it happens in badminton, then badminton players are unkind and unsporting?

[hcyong]

very, but according to sportsmanship, that's not it. and if you watch football or hockey, you'd see teammates and players trying to break it up fights. and Lin Dan and Lee Hyun Il are players on the same circuit, they must at least know of each other well enough to be acquantances, and be friends enough to stop them from fighting in badminton(?) LOL right...

Did a fight actually occur in this incident? Did I miss something? Darn, where's the video?

[ye333]

What made you think LHI could "break up the fight"? The Korean coach tried to stand between LD and LM and you saw LD's reaction. Furthermore, LHI, being a junior, did the correct thing not to mess with LM, a senior's business.

If LHI went "in between", the situation would escalate instead of die down.


well i wouldn't say Lee Hyun Il was totally sportsman like, he did nothing to break up the fight =P, he stood away and let his coach and his opponent go at it...if he had any sportsmanship, or kindness as everyone claims he does, he would try to get in between and stop it. if a fight broke out in my match, i'd do everything i could to break it up. it's just bad habit to stand and watch. =P but that's just me. i'm not sure if you see a fight out in the street, if you would go try and stop it and be the nice guy. lol

[ye333]

That's not true. Usually the other side will deliberately kick the ball out so that there will be a legal break. And then the "injured" side will throw the ball back.


well thats not the players fault. if the referee doesn't blow the whistle then play goes on. if a player from the opposite team does help out the injured guy, and because of this the other team scores or something, then the guy who helped the injured guy will probably benched by the coach for the next couple games.
again, in nature human beings are not nice

[Birdwood]

So, you agree that LHI did not make much noise then? IMHO, LHI was pretty cool (at least on the outside) about the whole thing.

Agree, LHI is usually very cool guy.

[xXazn_romeoXx]

What made you think LHI could "break up the fight"? The Korean coach tried to stand between LD and LM and you saw LD's reaction. Furthermore, LHI, being a junior, did the correct thing not to mess with LM, a senior's business.

If LHI went "in between", the situation would escalate instead of die down.

hey anyone can, if you at least "try". i mean what makes you think the tournament referee could, or the korean assistant coach? wouldn't Lin Dan (and he did) see them as infuriating him more? it's not about a junior vs a senior thing, they were arguing over a line call, and he made the shot. if anything, he should be trying to hold back HIS coach. but not doing anything about it is being an accessory to a crime. he saw something wrong happen, and didn't report or do anything about it. thus he helped the crime escalate or go worse. if he only just blocked lin dan before he got over to Li Mao, things might not have gotten that far. but we'll never know lol...

[fabcargo]

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=QsdZUuWaPk4 (http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=QsdZUuWaPk4)

this is newest clip , this is showing lindan was too far away from lm and with that kind crow ..lm said zhongbo ( china mens' single coach) was closer 2 him and he did even hear anything , how can lindan heard what he said

I wonder if the lines man called the "racket throw" as being IN as well??? To me it was clearly OUT.
:):):):):):):):):)

[super__gao]

So, if it happens in other sports, then in nature human beings are not nice, but if it happens in badminton, then badminton players are unkind and unsporting?

why does everyone try to put words in my mouth?!?! gosh, i hope i'm not hated this much :eek: lol. if you read my last sentence, it says that human beings aren't nice people, which is why i talked about the coach probably benching the guy who helped the injured guy. i think this is miscommunication

i like badminton. i enjoy playing it. if their are questionable shots in our games i will give my opponent the benefit of the doubt and award them the point.
but that's just with the people i play with. it's just that i've never seen the level of peace and love in badminton as opposed to some of the other sports i have listed.

[super__gao]

I wonder if the lines man called the "racket throw" as being IN as well??? To me it was clearly OUT.
:):):):):):):):):)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA :D

[badMania]

hey anyone can, if you at least "try". i mean what makes you think the tournament referee could, or the korean assistant coach? wouldn't Lin Dan (and he did) see them as infuriating him more? it's not about a junior vs a senior thing, they were arguing over a line call, and he made the shot. if anything, he should be trying to hold back HIS coach. but not doing anything about it is being an accessory to a crime. he saw something wrong happen, and didn't report or do anything about it. thus he helped the crime escalate or go worse. if he only just blocked lin dan before he got over to Li Mao, things might not have gotten that far. but we'll never know lol...

In these situations, any intervention will only escalate the already heated affairs, like Zhong Bo's interference :cool:

[Birdwood]

I don't think LM was close to LD. If you check the video (the TV broadcast one), LM was just a few steps in front of his seat when the camera turned to him, and that's about 1/2 or 1 second after LD threw the racket. So at the moment of LD throwing, LM should be about two steps back and pretty close to his seat.

Also, remember that at that time, they are in a big room with thousands of ppl, and those ppl were all talking freely (LD has already made a scene on court and ppl must be discussing about this). When I was a student, if all the 100 or 200 ppl were talking freely, the teacher's words are really hard to catch unless you sit in the front few rows. Even when most ppl are just murmuring, the teacher's voice also decays really fast with distance.

I think LD could hear LM saying something, but I don't think he heard every word clearly.

I think LD heard it when he went to talk to the umpire, then later he could not get any help from the umpire, he turn around and decided to throw the racket. Because LM said himself that he stood up, moved 2 steps forward, and shouted at the umpire and LD to apply pressure when LD went to the umpire about the call.

[ctjcad]

I think LD's "emotional reaction" as a tactic. He made a scene at the very first bad call. Also right after the 21:21 bad call, he chose to shout to LHI first -- it doesn't make sense since LHI cannot overrule the call, unless he was in fact trying to disturb LHI.
..esp. in the new video, of course LinDan was purely acting on emotion. Whether it's a tactic or not, it definitely escalated to his outburst.
After all the dust settles, he & Li Mao were essentially the ones acting on emotion.
*As for the first bad call, as far as i recall, it was the net fault call on LHI which the Umpire over-ruled, in the 2nd set.

[xXazn_romeoXx]

In these situations, any intervention will only escalate the already heated affairs, like Zhong Bo's interference :cool:

ya but...i don't think anyone would be too happy if Lin Dan walked to Li Mao and whupped his umm...*cough* right :p:D

[coolhandluke]

To summarize what some people are professing:
If you cannot defend your guy after he is irrevocably proved guilty of offense, discredit the other guy of being equally bad according to an arbitrary scale of morals. If there is no other guy, blame the institution, human nature(!) or society, as needed. If you can, thrown in a patronizing, "Aren't we all sinners" speech too.

You guys would make good politicians. ;)

[xXazn_romeoXx]

all i meant is, if no one intervened, we'd see UFC 31 in Korea ;)

[Birdwood]

What made you think LHI could "break up the fight"? The Korean coach tried to stand between LD and LM and you saw LD's reaction. Furthermore, LHI, being a junior, did the correct thing not to mess with LM, a senior's business.

If LHI went "in between", the situation would escalate instead of die down.

I don't think LHI did anything wrong besides not admitting the shot went out, but no other players did that either.

[ye333]

The point is, to LD, LHI is "them", as well as the Korean coach. That's why their intervention will only worsen the situation -- as I clearly said, after the intervention of the Korean coach LD got more furious.

The tournament referees are "neutral" and therefore they could help. In fact you can see that LD didn't turn hostile toward them even when they are escorting him away.


hey anyone can, if you at least "try". i mean what makes you think the tournament referee could, or the korean assistant coach? wouldn't Lin Dan (and he did) see them as infuriating him more? it's not about a junior vs a senior thing, they were arguing over a line call, and he made the shot. if anything, he should be trying to hold back HIS coach. but not doing anything about it is being an accessory to a crime. he saw something wrong happen, and didn't report or do anything about it. thus he helped the crime escalate or go worse. if he only just blocked lin dan before he got over to Li Mao, things might not have gotten that far. but we'll never know lol...

[xXazn_romeoXx]

The point is, to LD, LHI is "them", as well as the Korean coach. That's why their intervention will only worsen the situation -- as I clearly said, after the intervention of the Korean coach LD got more furious.

The tournament referees are "neutral" and therefore they could help. In fact you can see that LD didn't turn hostile toward them even when they are escorting him away.

ya but Li Mao wasn't helping out his cause. he was up and yelling and about too. how do we know he wasn't gunna punch Lin Dan while being held up ;)...all i meant is that if LHI held up his own coach with the korean assistant, it'd at least show that he was trying to calm things down, and thus showing sportsmanship. by staying out, yes he probably stopped things from getting worse, but if things got worse, he'd be seen as someone that just let things happen. it's always a good precaution to not let things escalate, but the way Lin Dan was acting under his current emotions, who knows. better to hold back/protect Li Mao, than to let Lin Dan, "hopefully" not break free and kill him. that's all i meant =P

[kankan]

if all badminton players can act like LHI, i think badminton will be true "gentlemen sports".


I don't think LHI did anything wrong besides not admitting the shot went out, but no other players did that either.

[Birdwood]

To summarize what some people are professing:
If you cannot defend your guy after he is irrevocably proved guilty of offense, discredit the other guy of being equally bad according to an arbitrary scale of morals. If there is no other guy, blame the institution, human nature(!) or society, as needed. If you can, thrown in a patronizing, "Aren't we all sinners" speech too.

You guys would make good politicians. ;)

Are you saying that we should not point finger at LM along with LD? I think it's OK to blame other guilty parties, but not everyone shared equal amount of blame though. It will be up to BWF to sort out who gets what kind penalty depending on the role they played :rolleyes:

[ThePlayer]

Let's hear what the umpire have to say about the incident. Here is the link.

http://news.wenxuecity.com/messages/200801/news-gb2312-516590.html

In summary, he admitted the shot was out. He understand Lin Dan. He was not happy about the those linesman calls.

[w3wmfhe]

this is some kind make up ..i believe

[Birdwood]

this is some kind make up ..i believe

He's taking some responsibility himself for what happened under his watch. Part of the interview tells what happened on the court and are the facts, like for the disputed call, he looked at the linesmen/lineswomen, who firmly confirm the shot was in, and the TV referee gave the same answer to him so he insisted to upheld the call. From the video, we did not know the umpire did all these things before he made the final decision for not correcting the call at the time, which turned out to be a wrong decision.

[w3wmfhe]

what umpire said that LD and Lm was so close to each other and had some agurement b4 lin dan threw the racquet .
watch the tw clip LD went to the net talked to the umpire and LHI and walked back couple stepd then turn around threw the racquet

LD and LM was no where near each other b4 LD threw the racquet

[w3wmfhe]

from what i know ..this newspaper is not any major newspaper, it is one of these kind paper make up all kinds stories .

[w3wmfhe]

from the video , the ref was never turn around his head after he made his call and b4 lin dan threw his racquet, he turned after LD threw the racquet away

[Birdwood]

what umpire said that LD and Lm was so close to each other and had some agurement b4 lin dan threw the racquet .
watch the tw clip LD went to the net talked to the umpire and LHI and walked back couple stepd then turn around threw the racquet

LD and LM was no where near each other b4 LD threw the racquet

Look at my post (#53)

LD and LM was in a close range when LD went to talk to the umpire, at that time LM stood up, walked a couple of steps out, and shouted at the umpire and LD. That happened before LD walked away and turned around, then threw the racket.

[Han]

In CO and China Master, China used " service faults" and " receiving faults" trick to all foreign players....thats you can not judge ....very smart way to destroy other players' confident...I have to say linemen in China especially in Guanzhou was much better..except using the trick of service and receiving faults...

I agreed, I recall any flick serve from foreign players are call "fault" during China Open.

[w3wmfhe]

even from LD's own words , he said that i was far away from LM

[taufik-ist]

he..he who has cut off the video frame that contains lindan throwing his racket ... i saw it in youtube

[V3i HoN6]

I wonder if the lines man called the "racket throw" as being IN as well??? To me it was clearly OUT.
:):):):):):):):):)
HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAH
AHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHH
AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAH
post of the day anyone?

[Han]

even from LD's own words , he said that i was far away from LM

That's the problem with Lin Dan, he continues to make up stories as he goes along and now has reached no turning point. Just look at the way the threw the racket and don't tell me he meant no harm to the one that he threw at?
Xie Xingfang should look at this video to make sure this is the guy she wants to stick with for the rest of her life, this is no kidding. One less idol in my book.

[eaglehelang]

from the video , the ref was never turn around his head after he made his call and b4 lin dan threw his racquet, he turned after LD threw the racquet away

I already put in my pts in the other thread combined from the vids , which I think now is locked.
From the official broadcast & Alphonse's vid, LM & LD werent standing near the umpire or close to each other when LD threw his racket. The Korea assistant coach was standing a distance away from the umpire when the 22-21 call was made.
LM & assistant walked forward from their chairs, not backward when LD & coach went over to Korea side.

Sorry, just read again, LM said he moved forward a bit bf racket throwing... unfortunately no vid on that...hmmmmmm

[stork]

the biggest fault of the impire was to give only a yellow card for such a behaviour.

"discussing" with fans remains me of a report i saw about a demonstration for Michael Jackson, where the "fans" argued like " ...he must be innocent because he makes such a good music and I can´t believe he did this"...

and what makes me really wonder is there are obviously some leaders of this board trying to talk down Lin Dan´s assault by pointing at others and also wonder why kwun limited the penalty to a 2 SS-suspension...in football (what some call soccer) he would be out for a longer time...

[V3i HoN6]

even from LD's own words , he said that i was far away from LM
Cut it mate.
They choose to see what they want to see
and believer in what they believe.
From the denial of LD actually throws the racquet, choose not to see the video, till undeniably he actually did, then to him not actually throwing at LM direction, corrected at last, then to LM shouting at him "before" he throws, end up it was "after", then to LM severely insulted him with words, choose not to read LD's blog accounts in a thread call LD's blog... that his testimonial admited that LM didnt do verbal personal attack, then ignore it and still back to conclusion LM must have said something bad again, then it is far or near like this one.
While they can pretty much get all the idea by just look back into the video.

[Han]

Cut it mate.
They choose to see what they want to see
and believer in what they believe.
From the denial of LD actually throws the racquet, choose not to see the video, till undeniably he actually did, then to him not actually throwing at LM direction, corrected at last, then to LM shouting at him "before" he throws, end up it was "after", then to LM severely insulted him with words, choose not to read LD's blog accounts in a thread call LD's blog... that his testimonial admited that LM didnt do verbal personal attack, then ignore it and still back to conclusion LM must have said something bad again, then it is far or near like this one.
While they can pretty much get all the idea by just look back into the video.

Lies after lies, from the World Champion, such a shame!

[Birdwood]

even from LD's own words , he said that i was far away from LM

But LD did say he heard some verbal attack from LM to him. LD said "i was far away from LM" when he threw the racket: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51838 (post #6).

[block306]

Interested to hear what are the discussion or gist of it from the China fans. Any BC-forummers who can read and visited any of the Chinese badminton forum sites can give us a general feel?? Thanks.

[V3i HoN6]

Interested to hear what are the discussion or gist of it from the China fans. Any BC-forummers who can read and visited any of the Chinese badminton forum sites can give us a general feel?? Thanks.
Pretty much the same with here.
I think we all agree both are at fault. LD, LM, linesman, to some extent.
Just some emphasize on LD, some on LM.
Some suggested Hawkeye or similar technologies to be bring in.
Some resort to personal attacks but due to strict moderation here, unnecessary fighting and sarcasm was spare from here.
They discuss more on the issue between LM and LYB, which I truly agree the root cause that sparks this controversy. And how much he want to go back to serve his country but it seems impossible now.
Some call him and his supporter as traitor and unpatriotic. Some defended him.

[jasonmarc]

My...oh...my...after watched the clip.....i m convinced that LD...was so out of control and *****.......sad to say....he deserved heavy punishment..

[Wildstone]

hmm ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Guys, I am just wondering ... Why didn't Lin Dan throw his racket to the line judge who ruled the shuttle was out? I mean, if you think DEEPLY about it, it was the misjudgment of that line judge which started the whole thing. I mean, the umpire can't really have a good view of whether the shuttle was out or in, and certainly nothing to do with coaches or players. At least the first thing Taufik did in HK2006 was going directly to the line judge, and then argued with the umpire, and then walked away. If there anyone is to be put a blame on this incident, I would say the line judge would be first in line. And I don't buy that the line judge 'unintentionally' misjudged. The shuttle was clearly out and he has a direct,straight,clear sight that the shuttle was hit right next to the big fat white line. He is obviously siding his country's player. What Lin Dan did was wrong, but if he is going to do it anyway, he might as well throw that to the line judge.

[ye333]

LD was not mad at the line calls. Everyone knows in Korea you get such calls, and LD said they indeed prepared. Before the racket-throw, LD was doing a show, he first tried to make LHI feel guilty, then tried to put pressure on the umpire. Maybe he was pretty confident that the umpire would overrule -- all four previous bad calls were overruled (according to ctjcad).

Unfortunately the umpire chose to do things differently this time. LD's ego could not take it and he started to feel anger.

But the real reason...

LD said, "... he is a Chinese ...". So actually it's not that LM said anything bad, it's LM, a Chinese, making such an effort to help LHI, a Korean, take advantage of a bad line call (LM didn't see it clearly -- he was further away and had a worse view than the umpire, so to him it's just a controversial call), that finally made LD mad. In other words, it's LM, as a Chinese, working whole-heartedly as a Coach of a Korean, that set LD off.

If you remember, LYB sometimes talks about Chinese players playing for other countries as if they are traitors (I remember he actually used this word in one case, not sure). Thus no wonder LD has a very negative opinion of LM.


hmm ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Guys, I am just wondering ... Why didn't Lin Dan throw his racket to the line judge who ruled the shuttle was out? I mean, if you think DEEPLY about it, it was the misjudgment of that line judge which started the whole thing. I mean, the umpire can't really have a good view of whether the shuttle was out or in, and certainly nothing to do with coaches or players. At least the first thing Taufik did in HK2006 was going directly to the line judge, and then argued with the umpire, and then walked away. If there anyone is to be put a blame on this incident, I would say the line judge would be first in line. And I don't buy that the line judge 'unintentionally' misjudged. The shuttle was clearly out and he has a direct,straight,clear sight that the shuttle was hit right next to the big fat white line. He is obviously siding his country's player. What Lin Dan did was wrong, but if he is going to do it anyway, he might as well throw that to the line judge.

[eaglehelang]

..........They discuss more on the issue between LM and LYB, which I truly agree the root cause that sparks this controversy. And how much he want to go back to serve his country but it seems impossible now.
Some call him and his supporter as traitor and unpatriotic. Some defended him.

A bit off topic... you know what they say is the history of LM & LYB's conflict? Wah... called traitor some more...must have been sthing real big. Someone posted that LYB fired LM & other coaches who signed some document to go against LYB, is that true?
There're quite a number of China coaches in other countries.. dunno what they say abt them.

And yes, doesnt matter abt what LM said or gestured to LD, in 'normal courts' that you & I are subject to, the action of doing sthing is more severe. And with both the coaches, their "pushing exercise". The rest is "He said, I said", back & forth.

[nibaxiang]

hmm ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Guys, I am just wondering ... Why didn't Lin Dan throw his racket to the line judge who ruled the shuttle was out? I mean, if you think DEEPLY about it, it was the misjudgment of that line judge which started the whole thing. I mean, the umpire can't really have a good view of whether the shuttle was out or in, and certainly nothing to do with coaches or players. At least the first thing Taufik did in HK2006 was going directly to the line judge, and then argued with the umpire, and then walked away. If there anyone is to be put a blame on this incident, I would say the line judge would be first in line. And I don't buy that the line judge 'unintentionally' misjudged. The shuttle was clearly out and he has a direct,straight,clear sight that the shuttle was hit right next to the big fat white line. He is obviously siding his country's player. What Lin Dan did was wrong, but if he is going to do it anyway, he might as well throw that to the line judge.

hehe, it's been said many times. There are guys just keeping ignoring the fact. Being world #1 for about 3 year, LD got enough "enemies" who want him down, one way or the other. No matter what's the fact, they have enough #$!#$!#$ $%#$%#$ throw to LD.

Don't get me wrong, what LD did is wrong. Still, lot of others are guilty as well, give it LM, linemen or the TV umpire, etc.

[Smichz]

Hey,did anyone really know what exactly the words that LiMao said to LD that time?I really wanna know how LiMao can make LD became such a vicious guy..I bet LYB also wanna know..so that he can use it to "burn" LD in the Olympic2008 later on..:D:D:D

[stork]

A bit off topic... you know what they say is the history of LM & LYB's conflict? Wah... called traitor some more...must have been sthing real big. Someone posted that LYB fired LM & other coaches who signed some document to go against LYB, is that true?
There're quite a number of China coaches in other countries.. dunno what they say abt them.
.

Hey eaglehelang, i already answered your question yesterday in any other post, but sounds like you don´t believe me. In Germany you can´t read those things in the news, you know...:cool:

LYB had to fire not only coaches, also players...

For me the only reason for this incident is the hate between LYB and LM, but nobody listen. Seems to be be more interesting to talk about Lindan, Taufik and Korea...:rolleyes:

[Birdwood]

Hey,did anyone really know what exactly the words that LiMao said to LD that time?I really wanna know how LiMao can make LD became such a vicious guy..I bet LYB also wanna know..so that he can use it to "burn" LD in the Olympic2008 later on..:D:D:D

Assume you can read in Chinese:

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51838
what LM said in an interview in the post #1
what LD said in an interview in the post #6 (there used to be a video)

http://news.wenxuecity.com/messages/200801/news-gb2312-516590.html
what the umpire of MSF KO 08 said in an interview

[toaster81]

Wat LD angry about? This is not what he asked for during CO 07? HomeTeam advantage..and korean just follow instruction..

[niepan]

Interested to hear what are the discussion or gist of it from the China fans. Any BC-forummers who can read and visited any of the Chinese badminton forum sites can give us a general feel?? Thanks.

at sports.sina.com.cn, some are quarreling/fighting about whether Li Mao's behavior is against patriotism and whether he is a traitor....

some are also dissapointed with lin dan and li yongbo and even liu fengyan's justification

some are supporting lin dan, hinting that he is a hero



Generally, except lin dan's fans, many are not agree with lin's show

[jgao_net]

LD was not mad at the line calls. Everyone knows in Korea you get such calls, and LD said they indeed prepared. Before the racket-throw, LD was doing a show, he first tried to make LHI feel guilty, then tried to put pressure on the umpire. Maybe he was pretty confident that the umpire would overrule -- all four previous bad calls were overruled (according to ctjcad).

Unfortunately the umpire chose to do things differently this time. LD's ego could not take it and he started to feel anger.

But the real reason...

LD said, "... he is a Chinese ...". So actually it's not that LM said anything bad, it's LM, a Chinese, making such an effort to help LHI, a Korean, take advantage of a bad line call (LM didn't see it clearly -- he was further away and had a worse view than the umpire, so to him it's just a controversial call), that finally made LD mad. In other words, it's LM, as a Chinese, working whole-heartedly as a Coach of a Korean, that set LD off.

If you remember, LYB sometimes talks about Chinese players playing for other countries as if they are traitors (I remember he actually used this word in one case, not sure). Thus no wonder LD has a very negative opinion of LM.
is this based on fact or your own opinion? im pretty sure it's the latter one.

[sepang]

LM is LHI coach. He did for his players. Just like LYB did for his players. It is not about Chinese nation or Patriot. It is about service. He is paid to coach the korean team.

[tjl_vanguard]

unethical of LD to "throw" rackets at ppl... LCW did tat once during training n Misbun was furious.. Misbun said racket is players' weapon.. throwin it away means throwin ur weapon away.. basically, tats y LD lost to LHI.. cuz stupid enuf to throw his weapon away! haha :D

[eaglehelang]

Hey eaglehelang, i already answered your question yesterday in any other post, but sounds like you don´t believe me. In Germany you can´t read those things in the news, you know...:cool:

LYB had to fire not only coaches, also players...

For me the only reason for this incident is the hate between LYB and LM, but nobody listen. Seems to be be more interesting to talk about Lindan, Taufik and Korea...:rolleyes:

Thanks, I know that someone answered, not that I dont believe you, trying to find the news piece since BC wasnt formed yet back in 1999- in China, something would have cropped up.

Whatever the reason behind it, it's the action at the time that will be considered by BWF.
So, we only comment on the actions - LD's actions as a player,compare with Taufik's punishment in 2006, LM's actions as a coach, Korea's biased line-judging which have been happening for years.

[victory]

LD was not mad at the line calls. Everyone knows in Korea you get such calls, and LD said they indeed prepared. Before the racket-throw, LD was doing a show, he first tried to make LHI feel guilty, then tried to put pressure on the umpire. Maybe he was pretty confident that the umpire would overrule -- all four previous bad calls were overruled (according to ctjcad).

Unfortunately the umpire chose to do things differently this time. LD's ego could not take it and he started to feel anger.

But the real reason...

LD said, "... he is a Chinese ...". So actually it's not that LM said anything bad, it's LM, a Chinese, making such an effort to help LHI, a Korean, take advantage of a bad line call (LM didn't see it clearly -- he was further away and had a worse view than the umpire, so to him it's just a controversial call), that finally made LD mad. In other words, it's LM, as a Chinese, working whole-heartedly as a Coach of a Korean, that set LD off.

If you remember, LYB sometimes talks about Chinese players playing for other countries as if they are traitors (I remember he actually used this word in one case, not sure). Thus no wonder LD has a very negative opinion of LM.

I totally agree this is truth. From what I see the chinese team keep attacking LM with the intention to justify LD unprecedent violent on court! And the easiest way is to " bring it up to national level" that means claiming LM is a chinese . Thus LM should not help korean to " go against Chinese badminton team. When they argue it in this way they can easily instigate the emotional of the chinese people and gain more support. You can go to chinese web site top see how some people call LM traitor or start to hate LM. But I must also say that not all chinese people buy into this. A lot of them are smart ,rational and fair. A lot of them can see that this is a issue of unacceptable violent on court. LD Saying "LM is chinese and should not be the first one that stood up and complaint.... bla...bla...bla..." is rubbish and shallow! If I say Tan Kim He is Malaysian and he should not coach UK team I will be mocked as a mad man! This kind of saying has no market at all in Malaysia! I will be accused of being racist, shallow and plain stupid. What? Park joo Bong should not coach Japanese because he is Korean? Rexy should not coach malaysian because he is Indonesian? Ha....Ha...Ha.....Ha....Ha....
And when they coach other countries team they must not complain agaist they home country's team? Ha...Ha....Ha....Ha! What kind of idiotic arguement! It just show how desperate LD and chinese offcials want to use any excuse and lies to talk LD out of this mess!

If LD think LM is wrong to stand up he can lorge a complain of even shout back at him. But he used violence against Li Mao. That is complete wrong irrelevent of LD is provoked or at the first place.


LD must be penalized heavily and openly apologize for what he has done. He tried to use aggression to harm LM! First by throwing racket at LM. Secondly, when he get his racket back , he turn back and tried to hit LM. If he was no stopped we all have reason to believe he would have bashed his racket at LM already. From his second act of violent we can logically deduce he indeed tried to harm LM by throwing racket at him. We just can not brush it aside as he was just reacted out of frustration!

A violent is a violent! And he did it infront of camera. Millions of people around the world saw he aggression towards LM! Is there still justice and fairness in this world? What ever rubbish and lies the LD and chinese officials gave would not turn black into white.

[weeyet]

Very clear video
and you can see how aggresive lin dan is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsdZUuWaPk4

[ye333]

It's based on facts (what LD said, and available videos) + reason.

Maybe you can tell me why LD emphasize the nationality of LM. Why is that relevant in justifying his behavior?


is this based on fact or your own opinion? im pretty sure it's the latter one.

[Wong8Egg]

Some ridiculous point I see over the past few days:

- Some link LD"s behaviour to murder.
- Some question the source of the umpire interview conduct by the Chinese media while never doubted and bringing up over and over again old sources of the "break his leg" statement that was promoted by the Malaysian media.
- Some suggest that the final call is clearly in and accuse LD protest as pressurizing the umpire.
- Some finds Li Mao is understandable and doing his part as a coach, meanwhile, condemning LD for overreacting.
- Some brings up TH walk out incident to suggest hasher penalty on LD while ignore TH fight with the fan incident.
- Some suggest that LD shouldn't be emotionally affected prior the fight with LM simply because the umpire has overruled the previous bad calls.

Once again, I am not defending LD misbehaving (and I am not his fan either, I supported LHI from the beginning of the final) and I think he should be punished, but I also find it understandable under those circumstances. What really annoyed me is many of the people here (you know who you are) is simply taking advantage of the incident to insult LD, LYB or the Chinese team by applying double standard.

[ye333]

Seems some parts are pointing at me.

"Some question the source of the umpire interview": I pointed out clear inconsistency between an important part of the interview and an available video, of course that's enough to put the credulity of the whole interview in doubt. In LCW's case, I only cited the words LYB himself admitted (that is "(LCW) would not learn anything good but learned everything bad" -- in my opinion this is much worse than "if all points are ruled in your favor, then what's the point having this match played" -- the former is personal attack and the latter is just a complaint -- note that LM hasn't admitted that he said this sentence yet. So as of now its credulity is the same as "break his leg". ) and never used "break his leg" in this argument (I mentioned it once, with a remark indicating LYB never admitted this).

"Some finds Li Mao is understandable and doing his part as a coach, meanwhile, condemning LD for overreacting.": Please tell me why what LD did is not overreaction, and what would happen if LD "overreacted" according to your standard. Also please tell me what LM did that is not "understandable" -- FYI, LM only admitted that he said "you want to hit me?!".

"Some brings up TH walk out incident to suggest hasher penalty on LD while ignore TH fight with the fan incident.": PBSI did wrongly in not punishing TH for fighting, BWF did the right thing to punish TH for walking out. Now which one should BWF follow: the wrong one by PBSI or the right one by itself (that is BWF)?

"Some suggest that LD shouldn't be emotionally affected prior the fight with LM simply because the umpire has overruled the previous bad calls." That's the right thing to do as a mature man and a professional player. I would do that if my goal is to win the match -- instead of to teach the opponent's coach how to behave or the line judges how to judge.


Some ridiculous point I see over the past few days:
- Some question the source of the umpire interview conduct by the Chinese media while never doubted and bringing up over and over again old sources of the "break his leg" statement that was promoted by the Malaysian media.
- Some suggest that the final call is clearly in and accuse LD protest as pressurizing the umpire.
- Some finds Li Mao is understandable and doing his part as a coach, meanwhile, condemning LD for overreacting.
- Some brings up TH walk out incident to suggest hasher penalty on LD while ignore TH fight with the fan incident.
- Some suggest that LD shouldn't be emotionally affected prior the fight with LM simply because the umpire has overruled the previous bad calls.

Once again, I am not defending LD misbehaving (and I am not his fan either, I supported LHI from the beginning of the final) and I think he should be punished, but I also find it understandable under those circumstances. What really annoyed me is many of the people here (you know who you are) is simply taking advantage of the incident to insult LD, LYB or the Chinese team by applying double standard.

[ctjcad]

...(not pointing at anyone) but all i've got to say is : God save this thread!:(....hopefully this thread won't end up looking like what happened to the other locked threads..:crying::p

[Wong8Egg]

Seems some parts are pointing at me.

"Some question the source of the umpire interview": I pointed out clear inconsistency between an important part of the interview and an available video, of course that's enough to put the credulity of the whole interview in doubt.

"Some finds Li Mao is understandable and doing his part as a coach, meanwhile, condemning LD for overreacting.": Please tell me why what LD did is not overreaction, and what would happen if LD "overreacted" according to your standard.

"Some brings up TH walk out incident to suggest hasher penalty on LD while ignore TH fight with the fan incident.": PBSI did wrongly in not punishing TH for fighting, BWF did the right thing to punish TH for walking out. Now which one should BWF follow: the wrong one by PBSI or the right one by itself (that is BWF)?

"Some suggest that LD shouldn't be emotionally affected prior the fight with LM simply because the umpire has overruled the previous bad calls." That's the right thing to do as a mature man and a professional player. I would do that if my goal is to win the match -- instead of to teach the opponent's coach how to behave or the line judges how to judge.

I can't help it if you only read half of my paragraph at a time.

The last point is most ridiculous and I think I am not the only one feel non-sense about it.

It is like someone come and slap your face 3 times and you shouldn't feel half bad about it knowing that the police with come up to arrest that crazy man and so my day could carry on happily???

[Wong8Egg]

...(not pointing at anyone) but all i've got to say is : God save this thread!:(....hopefully this thread won't end up looking like what happened to the other locked threads..:crying::p

I am crossing my fingers ...

[ye333]

I just edited my post. Please read the newer version.

Btw your analogy is not right. If someone slapped my face, I am already harmed. There is no way to recover. But LD got his point, no harm done. If you suggest professional players should care about other things than getting points and winning when they are on court, then I have to say I disagree.


I can't help it if you only read half of my paragraph at a time.

The last point is most ridiculous and I think I am not the only one feel non-sense about it.

It is like someone come and slap your face 3 times and you shouldn't feel half bad about it knowing that the police with come up to arrest that crazy man and so my day could carry on happily???

[ye333]

You are the one who's accusing other ppl and you are crossing your fingers... :confused:


I am crossing my fingers ...

[Wong8Egg]

I just edited my post. Please read the newer version.

Btw your analogy is not right. If someone slapped my face, I am already harmed. There is no way to recover. But LD got his point, no harm done. If you suggest professional players should care about other things than getting points and winning when they are on court, then I have to say I disagree.

In my scenario, you would be physically harmed, in LD scenario, he is physiologically harmed, I don't see the differences. And imagine if my scenario is applying to a police officer, which is his profession, I doubt he can walk away like nothing happened even the correct justice has applied.

Right???

[Wong8Egg]

"Some finds Li Mao is understandable and doing his part as a coach, meanwhile, condemning LD for overreacting.": Please tell me why what LD did is not overreaction, and what would happen if LD "overreacted" according to your standard. Also please tell me what LM did that is not "understandable" -- FYI, LM only admitted that he said "you want to hit me?!".

See, you only take LM's interview to the credit note, and others as "questionable", and of course everything would be in favour of LM, so you are applying double standard??? In additional, I never tried or excusing LD for his behaviour, so to answer your question, yes he is overreacting but I find it understandable. LM provoke LD at first place, and it is already his fault by leaving his seat and yell to the umpire even when he admit that he didn't has a clear sight of the controversy call. Thus I say LM should carry equal responsibility.

Btw, I am not pointing my finger at you, just some general points I see only the past few days.

[ye333]

I think I am pretty fair in the past few days since in my argument I always used LD's interview as a base, in which he said LM said "if all points are judged in your favor, then what's the point having this match played?".

But in fact, as you argued in the LYB "break his leg" case, this cannot be evidence since LM hasn't admitted it yet and there is no one testifying. Therefore I added that remark. There is no evidence of LM yelling at the umpire either.

It's ridiculous that LM should carry equal responsibility. Even if LM said that, it's like I stared at some other guy angrily and then this guy pulled out a knife and stabbed me. Should I carry equal responsibility? Of course not.

My opinion regarding responsibility of the incident: if LM said that sentence, LM 10%, LD 90%. If he didn't and LD got mad just because seeing a Chinese helping a Korean, LM 0%, LD 100%.


See, you only take LM's interview to the credit note, and others as "questionable", and of course everything would be in favour of LM, so you are applying double standard??? In additional, I never tried or excusing LD for his behaviour, so to answer your question, yes he is overreacting but I find it understandable. LM provoke LD at first place, and it is already his fault by leaving his seat and yell to the umpire even when he admit that he didn't has a clear sight of the controversy call. Thus I say LM should carry equal responsibility.

Btw, I am not pointing my finger at you, just some general points I see only the past few days.

[ashkenazi]

Some ridiculous point I see over the past few days:

- Some link LD"s behaviour to murder.
- Some question the source of the umpire interview conduct by the Chinese media while never doubted and bringing up over and over again old sources of the "break his leg" statement that was promoted by the Malaysian media.
- Some suggest that the final call is clearly in and accuse LD protest as pressurizing the umpire.
- Some finds Li Mao is understandable and doing his part as a coach, meanwhile, condemning LD for overreacting.
- Some brings up TH walk out incident to suggest hasher penalty on LD while ignore TH fight with the fan incident.
- Some suggest that LD shouldn't be emotionally affected prior the fight with LM simply because the umpire has overruled the previous bad calls.

Once again, I am not defending LD misbehaving (and I am not his fan either, I supported LHI from the beginning of the final) and I think he should be punished, but I also find it understandable under those circumstances. What really annoyed me is many of the people here (you know who you are) is simply taking advantage of the incident to insult LD, LYB or the Chinese team by applying double standard.

Haha... I have to agree. I don't follow pro badminton much and am born in Canada (zero sense of nationalism), so I'm pretty neutral about this. I only came to this subsection of the forum because I saw the video on youtube's top 10 viewed :P

I sort of wish I hadn't now though. It's kind of sad to see that a good number of people are being so extremely biased about this situation. I've been reading post after post from the people making the same points over and over and ignoring what others are saying. It's the same people too everytime!

Sigh, at least try not to let your bias get to you too much. It makes this whole discussion seem a bit ridiculous at times. :(

[kwun]

if anyone ever doubt why we need to moderate discussions here in BC, just look at the comments on the youtube video. i will shut down BC if BC ever get populated by those comments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1P5Nbne9do

[jgao_net]

I think I am pretty fair in the past few days since in my argument I always used LD's interview as a base, in which he said LM said "if all points are judged in your favor, then what's the point having this match played?".

But in fact, as you argued in the LYB "break his leg" case, this cannot be evidence since LM hasn't admitted it yet and there is no one testifying. Therefore I added that remark. There is no evidence of LM yelling at the umpire either.

It's ridiculous that LM should carry equal responsibility. Even if LM said that, it's like I stared at some other guy angrily and then this guy pulled out a knife and stabbed me. Should I carry equal responsibility? Of course not.

My opinion regarding responsibility of the incident: if LM said that sentence, LM 10%, LD 90%. If he didn't and LD got mad just because seeing a Chinese helping a Korean, LM 0%, LD 100%.
im not condoning LD's actions, but to say that the instigator (LM) has so little fault in this situation is absurd.
also, notice how LM wont come out and say in public what he had said to LD before LD threw his racket. LM has only made comments about LD's violent actions, but doesnt really acknowledge that he also has fault in this situation.

[ants]

LM has his right to talk as long as he stays in the box ie his area.

[Han]

if anyone ever doubt why we need to moderate discussions here in BC, just look at the comments on the youtube video. i will shut down BC if BC ever get populated by those comments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1P5Nbne9do

So it has nothing to do with you like to play GOD :D

[ctjcad]

...
I've been reading post after post from the people making the same points over and over and ignoring what others are saying. It's the same people too everytime!

Sigh, at least try not to let your bias get to you too much. It makes this whole discussion seem a bit ridiculous at times. :(
..yes, i hear you. But i guess, in a way, that's a good thing abt this forum also. People can speak their opinions/minds, even if they're biased & get into disagreements, yet at the same time, can make friends & move on as a group. Thankfully, also, we have such a strict, yet understanding team of owner/moderators that this place could still thrive.

if anyone ever doubt why we need to moderate discussions here in BC, just look at the comments on the youtube video. i will shut down BC if BC ever get populated by those comments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1P5Nbne9do
..it's just too bad to see & read people writing such posts over there.:crying::(:p
Thankfully, BC is quite strict & will not tolerate such postings!:cool:

[badMania]

- Some link LD"s behaviour to murder.
- Some finds Li Mao is understandable and doing his part as a coach, meanwhile, condemning LD for overreacting.

Once again, I am not defending LD misbehaving (and I am not his fan either, I supported LHI from the beginning of the final) and I think he should be punished, but I also find it understandable under those circumstances. What really annoyed me is many of the people here (you know who you are) is simply taking advantage of the incident to insult LD, LYB or the Chinese team by applying double standard.

Let me first state that even though I am an Indonesian fan, I am NEVER a fan of Taufik. I am also neither Lin Dan or Lee Hyun Il's fan.

Just want to give some of my comments here:
1. Lin Dan DID THROW the racket in the direction of Li Mao. So, if that racket did hit Li Mao, I think it will amount to assault? Maybe the standards of crime in the US or Canada is different :cool: But as eaglehelang had pointed out a case in Malaysia, there is still NO REASON for you to resort to violence, even though you were provoked.

2. Yes, Li Mao did overreact, but, coaches do shout instructions to players and sometimes to umpire to question their judgements. I personally saw Li Yongbo shouting instructions to Zheng Bo/Gao Ling from the stands at the HK Open, when the Chinese pair was playing Sudket/Saralee. At the end, LYB himself joined Chen Xingdong in the coach area because Zheng/Gao were losing the match.

Fortunately, the match was saved...by...yes...u got it....a controversial call (Sudket's smash was ruled out) similar to this one, called in favor of the Chinese pair, to give Zheng/Gao a MATCH POINT! I was sitting right above the court and that shot was clearly out by a distance!! I think the Thai coach did complain and reacted quite furiously to that call too. Maybe kwun can correct me if if I am wrong here! But, did Sudket throw a racket to the Chinese bench? Did Bao Chunlai throw a racket to the Indonesian bench when he was denied a point also in controversial circumstances in the Men's Singles Final of the Indonesia Open 2006?

If most players can react cooly about it, you tell me, why can't Lin Dan react the same way? And that's the part where we disagree! We don't think that his action WAS JUSTIFIED AT ALL! If he reacted simply because of Li Mao's provocation, then its not based on badminton anymore. Throwing his racket on the ground as signs of frustration IS UNDERSTANDABLE,however, throwing it in the direction of Li Mao is RIDICULOUS!

In addition, as ants mentioned, Li Mao has the right to to talk as long as he stayed in his own area. Well, I think he did stay in the Korean side's area before Lin Dan threw the racket :cool:

Talking about double-standards, well, it applies to some of the Lin Dan's supporters too. kwun can confirm this one too as we all laughed at that guy's response.

[cooler]

Let me first state that even though I am an Indonesian fan, I am NEVER a fan of Taufik. I am also neither Lin Dan or Lee Hyun Il's fan.

Just want to give some of my comments here:
1. Lin Dan DID THROW the racket in the direction of Li Mao. So, if that racket did hit Li Mao, I think it will amount to assault? Maybe the standards of crime in the US or Canada is different :cool: But as eaglehelang had pointed out a case in Malaysia, there is still NO REASON for you to resort to violence, even though you were provoked.

2. Yes, Li Mao did overreact, but, coaches do shout instructions to players and sometimes to umpire to question their judgements. I personally saw Li Yongbo shouting instructions to Zheng Bo/Gao Ling from the stands at the HK Open, when the Chinese pair was playing Sudket/Saralee. At the end, LYB himself joined Chen Xingdong in the coach area because Zheng/Gao were losing the match.

Fortunately, the match was saved...by...yes...u got it....a controversial call (Sudket's smash was ruled out) similar to this one, called in favor of the Chinese pair, to give Zheng/Gao a MATCH POINT! I was sitting right above the court and that shot was clearly out by a distance!! I think the Thai coach did complain and reacted quite furiously to that call too. Maybe kwun can correct if if I am wrong here! But, did Sudket throw a racket to the Chinese bench? Did Bao Chunlai throw a racket to the Indonesian bench when he was denied a point also in controversial circumstances in the Men's Singles Final of the Indonesia Open 2006?

If most players can react cooly about it, you tell me, why can't Lin Dan react the same way? And that's the part where we disagree! We don't think that his action WAS JUSTIFIED AT ALL! If he reacted simply because of Li Mao's provocation, then its not based on badminton anymore. Throwing his racket on the ground as signs of frustration IS UNDERSTANDABLE,however, throwing it in the direction of Li Mao is RIDICULOUS!

In addition, as ants mentioned, Li Mao has the right to to talk as long as he stayed in his own area. Well, I think he did stay in the Korean side's area before Lin Dan threw the racket :cool:

Talking about double-standards, well, it applies to some of the Lin Dan's supporters too. kwun can confirm this one too as we all laughed at that guy's response.

as a fellow bf member, i suggest that u save your breath. Look at the poll, rehashing this incident over and over again will change nothing. U sound like u r running out of material to discuss and now resorting to 'what if' scenarios. Probablistically, LD racket throwing can lead to killing alot of people in the stadium or the collapse of South Korea if u list out ALL the possible subsequent scenarios using the DEEP BLUE supercomputer.

I see a positive light from this LD incident. If BWF is not gonna move their a$$ to improve the line judging/verification (ie camera) system, i don't know what will. TH had spoken out before and LD had spoken in KO.
It's too bad LCW, peter gade, sudket and others havent spoken out loudly like TH and LD. That is why BWF is slow to act.

Save your energy and direct it to the BWF.

[badMania]

U sound like u r running out of material to discuss and now resorting to 'what if' scenarios. Probablistically, LD racket throwing can lead to killing alot of people in the stadium or the collapse of South Korea if u list out ALL the possible subsequent scenarios using the DEEP BLUE supercomputer.


Nah, the "what-if" scenarios appeared pretty early in my comments several days ago :p

Again, you are right in saying that, you can't deny what had already happened, which is "Lin Dan DID THROW the racket in the direction of Li Mao". Thanfully, the poll results also pointed out that the majority of us do think that Lin Dan deserves a harsh penalty, and FYI, which includes some Chinese fans too.

Ah...so now Lin Dan and Taufik Hidayat become instant heroes here :o And that's why Both players' actions WERE UNDERSTANDABLE. Ok cooler, We got it now :rolleyes:

[badMania]

TH had spoken out before and LD had spoken in KO.
It's too bad LCW, peter gade, sudket and others havent spoken out loudly like TH and LD. That is why BWF is slow to act.

Save your energy and direct it to the BWF.

Ah.. like the Nike motto....JUST DO IT! Very wise indeed....so...other players...please heed cooler's advice: speak out LOUDLY too if you are being unfairly treated ;) Revolutionalize badminton and make it the most watched racket games in the World. We want more actions...more dramas....good for TV isn't it?

If the single incident happening at Korea Open can make to the top 10 list of youtube....imagine what happen if more of the same stuffs were to occur....like in ice hockey or American football.

Well, as far as I know, this matter has been reported to BWF already.

[eaglehelang]

I see a positive light from this LD incident. If BWF is not gonna move their a$$ to improve the line judging/verification (ie camera) system, i don't know what will. TH had spoken out before and LD had spoken in KO.

Save your energy and direct it to the BWF.

Nvm mind-lah Cooler, they got a bit of free time mah.. now no tourney...

Btw, since the other thread got locked, thanks for putting up the link to 2001 incident. Unfortunately, bf I could I could reply there, you all already had major arguements that caused the thread to be locked.
It's not that I have short memory, I really dont know such incident happened. Then Taufik should have been severely punished by PBSI(since it was local tourney), charged in criminal court. The thing is, I couldnt find any follow-up news on what punishement was dished out and all that.

And again, if it was any Msian player doing what LD or Taufik did, woe unto them, the whole armada will come down on them.


Wong8Egg, - [Some question the source of the umpire interview conduct by the Chinese media while never doubted and bringing up over and over again old sources of the "break his leg" statement that was promoted by the Malaysian media.]

In response to the above pt : while I dont agree with the comparision of KO 2008 incident to WC 2006 one, that report came up in AP & Bwf website, I posted it somewhere in one of the threads :
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/22/sports/EU_SPT_BAD_Worlds.php

Mostly was intv with LCW, there were follow-up reports where the reporters asked the coaches (sorry, they dont provide archives for non-subscribers), it did happen but the difference was the media, sporting authorities, fans,didnt say "poor LCW", they critised LCW for being "mentally weak"- this happened too in WC 2007,CO 2007.
Some of the fans here could be LCW's hard core fans.

My point has been the decision makers, media, fans viewpoint in Msia is different from some hard core fans, as compared to China's media.
Whether reports 100%, 50% true, we read, then compare with other press intv for consistency. As to the umpire's intv, havent seen it crop up in other places yet.

[vching]

i'm getting tired of following the discussions here, which seem to go round and round .... hence I've decided to stay out of the BC forums these few days to avoid making a fool of myself :D :D

[badMania]

i'm getting tired of following the discussions here, which seem to go round and round .... hence I've decided to stay out of the BC forums these few days to avoid making a fool of myself :D :D

Wise move....hehe...I originally chose to do so...but...couldn't help but to get involved :o

[sysoh]

When I first saw the this video, immediately I used the scientific/logical approach to judge this incident.
(1) Timing
(2) Noise of surrounding
(3) Human natural reaction

Before watching this new video, I hate Li Mao's facial reaction. After watching this new clip, I understand that Li Mao's facial reaction was totally natural as a human when somebody threw the racket in such a barbaric/gangster way.

Here is the story that I get as BC private investigator. :-)
(1) When the score was 21-21, Lin Dan went around the court, the surrounding was very noisy, and he only has 1 to 2 seconds to listen to LM from such a far distance after going around the court. When he went around the court, his mind focus is definitely not on LM. (Please watch the video again, then you will understand what I mean)
(2)1 to 2 seconds is not sufficient for him to listen to what LM said. So, most probably he saw LM showed hand sign to umpire. And he hate China PRC national instead of Korean as the first person showing this hand sign to umpire. So, he just couldn't stand for this and threw the racket in uncultivated way.
(3) LHI has not seen the racket throwing scene at all.
(4) LM's reaction towards LD and ZB was totally natural as a human being by looking at the way LD threw the racket. The way he threw the racket is too ridiculous. Without watching this new clip, people will tend to hate LM's facial reaction. I think in this case LM's reaction is totally natural. Only coward/saint will not show that kind of facial reaction. :-)

My verdict:
(1) Lin Dan lied. It is a shame as a World Champion.
(2) LM's word can be trusted more.
(3) Lin Dan is too arrogant.

Note: before watching this video, I actually thought LM provoked LD through words and I hate LM's facial reaction before this.

[block306]

Nvm mind-lah Cooler, they got a bit of free time mah.. now no tourney...

My point has been the decision makers, media, fans viewpoint in Msia is different from some hard core fans, as compared to China's media.
Whether reports 100%, 50% true, we read, then compare with other press intv for consistency. As to the umpire's intv, havent seen it crop up in other places yet.

I am sorry if I kick up another ruckus by my following comments; however I totally agree and think this is the main difference between the M'sian & Chinese fans' attitudes and perspectives.

[vching]

its a matter of time before this thread gets closed :D

[azabaz_ipoh]

there will only be two outcome :

1. the issue dies down and people move on to other things
2. people keep arguing and goes round and round until kwun can't stand it anymore and lock the thread.

personally, i hope for no 1. :D :)

[xsakurax]

i'm getting tired of following the discussions here, which seem to go round and round .... hence I've decided to stay out of the BC forums these few days to avoid making a fool of myself :D :D

haha i agree...but it is fun to read other people comment and keep on debating the same thing over and over again.It is so funny.That is why i like this forum :p

[Wong8Egg]

I am sorry if I kick up another ruckus by my following comments; however I totally agree and think this is the main difference between the M'sian & Chinese fans' attitudes and perspectives.

Care to explain more??? :eek:

[yuna99]

This is my first post about this issue in BC forum since I started reading posts about the whole LinDan's racquet throwing scene in KO08. The purpose of this post is to voice my opinions!! Not to insult or hurt anyone in the forum or any players out there!
__________________________________________

My opinions:
1. Lindan is totally at wrong here. He should not resort to violence (throwing racquet at the direction of Limao) no matter how provoked or how angry he is.. And the point is after the whole incident, he did not apologize and he thinks he did right here and he need not apologize!! THis is to me ridiculous. He should be given red card and sent off the court (remember zidane's final appearance during world cup!?) It is shameful for badminton as this clip has been viewed worldwide!! The people who dont know badminton will think that this sport is totally a joke.. the player can throw racquet to anyone if they are unhappy.

2. About the unfairness of line calls, LinDan should complain but it should be reasonably done. If umpire arrives at a decision, he should respect the umpire and the decision! He can even chose to walk out the game as objection (as this is not a violent act)! He should not react the way he did! Unfairness happens everywhere in life (in every sports). Of course, BWF must do something to curb this terrible practice in many places in this world. I think Tennis is doing a great job by allowing the player to challenge the call. I think the main issue here is how a player react to unjust line calls. LinDan definitely chose a wrong way and he should at least apologize and be penalized for tainting the badminton sports.

See I have never mentioned LiMao.. He can do something dirty or what.. but as a player LinDan should not react with violence. We never know what Materazzi said to provoke Zidane. But Zidane did apologize for his action as he knows that this is a bad example for billions out there watching him.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5169342.stm

[Wong8Egg]

When I first saw the this video, immediately I used the scientific/logical approach to judge this incident.
(1) Timing
(2) Noise of surrounding
(3) Human natural reaction

Before watching this new video, I hate Li Mao's facial reaction. After watching this new clip, I understand that Li Mao's facial reaction was totally natural as a human when somebody threw the racket in such a barbaric/gangster way.

Here is the story that I get as BC private investigator. :-)
(1) When the score was 21-21, Lin Dan went around the court, the surrounding was very noisy, and he only has 1 to 2 seconds to listen to LM from such a far distance after going around the court. When he went around the court, his mind focus is definitely not on LM. (Please watch the video again, then you will understand what I mean)
(2)1 to 2 seconds is not sufficient for him to listen to what LM said. So, most probably he saw LM showed hand sign to umpire. And he hate China PRC national instead of Korean as the first person showing this hand sign to umpire. So, he just couldn't stand for this and threw the racket in uncultivated way.
(3) LHI has not seen the racket throwing scene at all.
(4) LM's reaction towards LD and ZB was totally natural as a human being by looking at the way LD threw the racket. The way he threw the racket is too ridiculous. Without watching this new clip, people will tend to hate LM's facial reaction. I think in this case LM's reaction is totally natural. Only coward/saint will not show that kind of facial reaction. :-)

My verdict:
(1) Lin Dan lied. It is a shame as a World Champion.
(2) LM's word can be trusted more.
(3) Lin Dan is too arrogant.

Note: before watching this video, I actually thought LM provoked LD through words and I hate LM's facial reaction before this.

I am speechless if you like to pin point every sec as if it is carefully planned. And so your verdict is LD gone mad because he just felt like to gone mad and LM has nothing to do with it???:confused:

[Kamen]

I am speechless if you like to pin point every sec as if it is carefully planned. And so your verdict is LD gone mad because he just felt like to gone mad and LM has nothing to do with it???:confused:

That's what exactly happened! It's not fictional.

[cooler]

When I first saw the this video, immediately I used the scientific/logical approach to judge this incident.
(1) Timing
(2) Noise of surrounding
(3) Human natural reaction

Before watching this new video, I hate Li Mao's facial reaction. After watching this new clip, I understand that Li Mao's facial reaction was totally natural as a human when somebody threw the racket in such a barbaric/gangster way.

Here is the story that I get as BC private investigator. :-)
(1) When the score was 21-21, Lin Dan went around the court, the surrounding was very noisy, and he only has 1 to 2 seconds to listen to LM from such a far distance after going around the court. When he went around the court, his mind focus is definitely not on LM. (Please watch the video again, then you will understand what I mean)
(2)1 to 2 seconds is not sufficient for him to listen to what LM said. So, most probably he saw LM showed hand sign to umpire. And he hate China PRC national instead of Korean as the first person showing this hand sign to umpire. So, he just couldn't stand for this and threw the racket in uncultivated way.
(3) LHI has not seen the racket throwing scene at all.
(4) LM's reaction towards LD and ZB was totally natural as a human being by looking at the way LD threw the racket. The way he threw the racket is too ridiculous. Without watching this new clip, people will tend to hate LM's facial reaction. I think in this case LM's reaction is totally natural. Only coward/saint will not show that kind of facial reaction. :-)

My verdict:
(1) Lin Dan lied. It is a shame as a World Champion.
(2) LM's word can be trusted more.
(3) Lin Dan is too arrogant.

Note: before watching this video, I actually thought LM provoked LD through words and I hate LM's facial reaction before this.it seem everybody want to be an expert analysing the cause of LD's action. They viewed various video clips relating to the rallies leading up to the incident with great detail, thinking they got the situation figured out without a shadow of doubt. IMO, this is like studying a bush in a large forest and say i know all about that forest. U think LD blows up because of 1 bad call? I believe LD frustration is built up from set 2. Have anybody analyse LM actions in all of set 2 and 3? Umpire reversed line calls 4 times, actual bad line calls could be more than 4. LD pawned LHI 19 points in a row to win the first set. This is an amazing feat. It's like LD playing a novice. There is something bothering LD's mind that enable LHI to turn the game around and beat LD in set 2 and 3. Knowing that close line calls could be called in, LHI, IMO, can play more riskier shots while LD has to think twice on taking close to the line shots while force to make conservative shots and tactics. I can hear the tv commentators and see the rallies, like, here's a nice lift by LHI for LD to kill but LD didn't kill it. It isn't just bad line calls, LD is force to play to LHI's advantage, long rallies. This change the whole dynamic of the match. Also, there might be tension existed already between LM and LD before the match start.

I'm not saying LD throwing racket is justified, i'm saying some of u think u understand the whole situation from just those short video clips showing the LD's outburst. It like asking an expert volcanic geologist what and how mount st. helen blew up with just video of the volcano eruption, he can only understand ~25% and speculate 75%. If sysoh was the geologist, he would say he understood it 100%

[sysoh]

it seem everybody want to be an expert analysing the cause of LD's action. They viewed various video clips relating to the rallies leading up to the incident with great detail, thinking they got the situation figured out without a shadow of doubt. IMO, this is like studying a bush in a large forest and say i know all about that forest. U think LD blows up because of 1 bad call? I believe LD frustration is built up from set 2. Have anybody analyse LM actions in all of set 2 and 3? Umpire reversed line calls 4 times, actual bad line calls could be more than 4. LD pawned LHI 19 points in a row to win the first set. This is an amazing feat. It's like LD playing a novice. There is something bothering LD's mind that enable LHI to turn the game around and beat LD in set 2 and 3. Knowing that close line calls could be called in, LHI, IMO, can play more riskier shots while LD has to think twice on taking close to the line shots while force to make conservative shots and tactics. I can hear the tv commentators and see the rallies, like, here's a nice lift by LHI for LD to kill but LD didn't kill it. It isn't just bad line calls, LD is force to play to LHI's advantage, long rallies. This change the whole dynamic of the match. Also, there might be tension existed already between LM and LD before the match start.

I'm not saying LD throwing racket is justified, i'm saying some of u think u understand the whole situation from just those short video clips showing the LD's outburst. It like asking an expert volcanic geologist what and how mount st. helen blew up with just video of the volcano eruption, he can only understand ~25% and speculate 75%. If sysoh was the geologist, he would say he understood it 100%
(1) It is important to win but not at all costs.
(2) I agree that the line judgement has to be fair, therefore we want to see the result determined by the players, not by courtside officials. Or who can argue the loudest…”
(3) We all want fair game, but this is no substitute for proper behaviour.
(4) Fair game is required as the players need to be confident that the game is officiated professionally, whilst respecting the technical officials’ decisions.
(5) During China Open, LCW was the victim for the poor line calls, none of the poor line call was overruled by the umpire from China. However, he was more professional in handling such situation. (uncivilized reaction by LD is not acceptable at all, see point 3) I don't think there were poor line call during HKO although LCW thinks so. Poor line calls will impact the players emotionally and it will affect players' confident as stated in point 4. Therefore, LCW and LD might not be the loser for CO and KO respectively.
However, LD should not think that he is still the champion of KO. As a World Champion, he should not say this. A win is a win by LHI as umpire's decision is ultimate. This is called "Su Bu Qi"
Not to forget, LCW was also the victim of "breaking leg" incident, but did he do anything during the match?
However, I think LD's mental strength is stronger than LCW by looking at the way they played after being affected emotionally.

I am happy that currently BWF takes serious action against poor line call. So, it turns out to be a blessing in disguise. However, why BWF or generally human needs to wait until such serious incident happens, then only they start to take the proper actions. They can actually take action when it happened during CO.

[sysoh]

I know Kwun doesn't prefer/like chinese article, but these are two good one from sina and sohu.

林丹行为可以理解？ 非得等打完人才罚吗



2008-01-30 10:21:54
大 (javascript: void(0);) 中 (javascript: void(0);) 小 (javascript: void(0);)
标签：林丹 (http://search.blog.sina.com.cn/blog/search?q=%C1%D6%B5%A4&tag=n&t=tag) 李矛 (http://search.blog.sina.com.cn/blog/search?q=%C0%EE%C3%AC&tag=n&t=tag) 羽毛球 (http://search.blog.sina.com.cn/blog/search?q=%D3%F0%C3%AB%C7%F2&tag=n&t=tag) 体育 (http://search.blog.sina.com.cn/blog/search?q=%CC%E5%D3%FD&tag=n&t=tag)
上周日，韩国羽毛球赛男单决赛中，林丹因对判罚不满与裁判发生了争执。这本来不是什么大事，但由于韩国队中 国籍教练李矛的介入而变的满城风雨，一时间国内多家媒体都对此事进行了报道。

事情的经过大家想必都知道了，这里就不再赘述，这次想说的是中国羽坛各方面的反应。

首先看看乒羽中心，主管羽毛球项目的主任刘凤岩对媒体说 (http://sports.sina.com.cn/o/2008-01-30/10123450964.shtml)：中国队不会处罚林丹，原因是林丹的行为可以理解，任何人在受到辱骂 后都会心态失衡，做出冲动举动。
http://i3.sinaimg.cn/ty/o/p/2008-01-27/U333P6T12D3445628F44DT20080127182229.jpg
你理解他吗

请大家注意这段话里的几个关键词。

不会处罚、可以理解：林丹在韩国公开赛上先后与裁判和对方教练发生激烈争执，在现场工作人员的阻隔下林丹同 志几乎做出了要打人的动作，这一点看过视频 (http://video.sina.com.cn/sports/o/bn/2008-01-29/10088129.shtml)和现场图 (http://sports.sina.com.cn/z/08badminton/photo/55193/)的朋友都应该能看出来，不管裁判的判罚是否真有问题，做为一名运动员，在比赛中做出这样的举动肯定是错误 的，怎么能说是“可以理解”？这样违背比赛规则的做法还“不会处罚”？试问是不是要等超级丹同志真的动了手 ，挨打的人开出医院的验伤证明，羽协才会对肇事者进行处罚？！

辱骂：林丹受到了对手辱骂？我们先做一个排除法，林丹被辱骂首先是他自己在接受采访时说的，那么辱骂林丹的 肯定不是韩 国对手李炫一或那个捷克主裁判，原因很简单，即使他们骂了林丹也听不懂。那么可能性只剩下一个了，李矛骂了 林丹。那么李矛骂了林丹什么？国内外大大小小的 媒体专访、对话、直击都没有说出来，李矛自己说，他只对林丹说了一句：“你是不是要打我？”

李矛当时和林丹僵持了一段时间，肯定不止说了这一句，也许是骂出了脏话，但林丹你别忘了，是你先把球拍砸向 李矛的，不管是有意无意，你砸了没有？砸李矛不对，砸别人或者谁都不砸，光砸拍子就对了？

接下来看看中国队男单教练钟波说的：李矛首先违反了规定，他从教练员椅子上站了起来，按照规则这是不允许的 ，我们上去找他理论，他就推了我一把。

关键词：首先，李矛“首先”违反了规则，没错，这点是李矛的问题，他不应该从椅子上站起来，但是中国队的教 练钟波和吉新鹏随后不也站起来了吗，一个巴掌拍不响，大家都违反了规则，不要五十步笑百步。

理论，钟波说李矛先推了他一把，但是电视镜头大家都看了，是钟波冲上去后先推了李矛胳膊一下，李矛随即回推 了一把，所不同的是火头上的李矛力气更大一些。

至于李永波同志的言论这里就不说了，他看没看比赛都只会说：林丹没错，我信他。

李矛与中国羽毛球队和李永波的矛盾由来已久，冰冻三尺非一日之寒，这次韩国赛的冲突仅是一个开始，不过就单 独林丹的行为来看，羽协不给处罚实在说不过去，以后的比赛这位被宠坏了的超级丹还不闹上房去？ ！

去年中国赛，李宗伟和鲍春来的决赛大家也都看了，平心而论，那场比赛的判罚几乎都对李宗伟不利，但李宗伟可 没像林丹那样大闹赛场。这次在韩国比赛，裁判向着本土选手是肯定的，但你林丹打了这么久比赛这点肚量都没有 ？

这样的行为必须处罚，你以为你是谁？

声明：写这篇东西主要针对的是林丹场上行为，并不是针对中国羽毛球队，李矛是中国人，但他也是韩国队的教练 ，体育就是体育，请不要把它上升到政治的高度。

[sysoh]

张松：羽坛NO.1迷失自我

2008年01月28日12:15 [我来说两句 (http://comment2.news.sohu.com/viewcomments.action?id=254924097)(2)] [字号：大 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:doZoom%2816%29) 中 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:doZoom%2814%29) 小 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:doZoom%2812%29)]
http://photocdn.sohu.com/20061229/Img247329635.gif (http://www.lndaily.com.cn/)
来源：北国网-辽沈晚报



对外战绩平平、火气却有增无减——— 以往镇定自若、淡看胜负的“超级丹”近两年不知为何竟陷入自我迷失的怪圈！

从2006年多哈亚运会输球后用香蕉皮砸电视，到2008年韩国超级赛与裁判、对方教练争执、怒摔球拍，林 丹似乎再难觅往昔进退自如的从容，反而平添出几多把持不定的暴躁与乖戾，中国男羽第一人的频频失态令人担忧 。
　　平心而论，将林丹捧成“男羽王者”的论调并不客观。纵观国际羽坛，在技术水准上能与林丹平起平坐的不下 三、四位高手，堪称天才的陶菲克、技术全面的李宗伟、斗志顽强的李炫一……林丹的强项不过是后场的起跳劈杀 ，但仅凭此一绝技欲独立羽坛峰巅未免一厢情愿。
　　前几年，林丹的竞技状态正处于上升期，再加上体能充沛、冲击锋芒甚锐，因此能一路过关斩将捧杯而还，但 这并不意味林丹的决赛能力已凌驾众人，陶菲克甚至早就预言：“我完全有信心在关键场次的比赛中战胜林丹，因 为我有比他更强的决赛经验与能力！”
　　林丹的综合能力在国羽众将中排位一流，也是中国男羽夺冠的主力中坚，人们往往难以平常心正视他的短长优 劣，对他情绪化的比赛顽疾每每视而不见。
　　目前的问题是，国外主要竞争对手已经掌握了控制林丹节奏的法门，但林丹却不能及时调整心态与战术、以变 制变。当自己曾经不可一世的凌厉攻杀再难奏功时，林丹的懊恼可想而知。换言之，林丹的争执与失态，看似因裁 判的不公判罚而起，倒不如讲是在冲自己泄愤。
　　诚然，不具备绝对王者实力的林丹目前的心理压力实在太大了，无论是鲍春来、还是陈金，都不具备独挡一面 的实力，林丹不是中国男羽的“铁门”，在形势瞬间万变的08奥运赛场上，如果谁认为男单冠军非林丹莫属，那 就是天大的轻敌与幼稚。
　　□张松

[eaglehelang]

sysoh,
This issue, plus example of CO 2007, WC 2006, HK Open 2006, more recently 2001 incidents involving LD, Taufik or LCW have already been discussed in the many threads concerning this issue.
All the points you posted +++ additional ones have been put forth. Some 'discussed' until the thread had to be locked by the mods.
Now the vid of the whole MS match has been available for a couple days, in Cantonese. Read thru, you will find the same pts repeated again & again, ppl will stick to their point of view anyway.

So, for now, let's enjoy the other KO matches, wait for BWF's action.
Then, there'll be another round of......

[sysoh]

sysoh,
This issue, plus example of CO 2007, WC 2006, HK Open 2006, more recently 2001 incidents involving LD, Taufik or LCW have already been discussed in the many threads concerning this issue.
All the points you posted +++ additional ones have been put forth. Some 'discussed' until the thread had to be locked by the mods.
Now the vid of the whole MS match has been available for a couple days, in Cantonese. Read thru, you will find the same pts repeated again & again, ppl will stick to their point of view anyway.

So, for now, let's enjoy the other KO matches, wait for BWF's action.
Then, there'll be another round of......
You are right, Helang! To me, this is a blessing in disguise as BWF started to take action to ensure fair and exciting game.
I only managed to submit 3 posts for this topic as I was busy troubleshooting on VoIP WiFi smartphone software for last few months.
For now, I will enjoy my Chinese New Year holiday in Malaysia and wait for AE 08 to be coming!

[badMania]

U think LD blows up because of 1 bad call? I believe LD frustration is built up from set 2. Have anybody analyse LM actions in all of set 2 and 3? Umpire reversed line calls 4 times, actual bad line calls could be more than 4. LD pawned LHI 19 points in a row to win the first set. This is an amazing feat. It's like LD playing a novice. There is something bothering LD's mind that enable LHI to turn the game around and beat LD in set 2 and 3. Knowing that close line calls could be called in, LHI, IMO, can play more riskier shots while LD has to think twice on taking close to the line shots while force to make conservative shots and tactics. I can hear the tv commentators and see the rallies, like, here's a nice lift by LHI for LD to kill but LD didn't kill it. It isn't just bad line calls, LD is force to play to LHI's advantage, long rallies. This change the whole dynamic of the match. Also, there might be tension existed already between LM and LD before the match start.



If u watched the second set, Lin Dan was suffering from a nosebleed, so, that could have affected his play as well :rolleyes: So what if Lin Dan blew Lee Hyun Il 21-4 in the first set?

Moreover, Lee Chong Wei also won the first set so convincingly 21-9 in the Hong Kong Open Final 2007, only to allow Lin Dan to come back strongly in the second and third sets and lost 15-21, 15-21 respectively :cool:

I can give u more examples whereby players/pairs that won the first set convincingly actually turned up losing the match :cool:

As a World No 1, I would expect Lin Dan to wrap up the match in the second set too, but, unfortunately, Lee Hyun Il turned to be more resilient than he appeared to be (regardless of whether he was helped by biased linecalls or not) and having saved 4 match points in total, I think Lee Hyun Il deserved the Korea Open title.

[Oldhand]

Posts 133 and 134 will be deleted unless someone soon provides an intelligible translation

[Krisna]

First, Lin Dan took the MS World Champion from Taufik. After watching this clip, I am now convinced that Taufik Hidayat have to surrender his "baddest"-boy-in-badminton title to Lin Dan too...

[w3wmfhe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Wjno0kqjQ&feature=user (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Wjno0kqjQ&feature=user)

this is one of the Lm reaction during the MO , it is also against Ld , from this point of the view , Lm said he was just stand up and gave some presure to the ref . and Lm was properly doin the same thing after the call during the Ko , from this clip , i dun think Lm reaction is against the player

[hcyong]

- Some link LD"s behaviour to murder.

My fault totally. I was trying to point out that even if the racquet missed the target, the fault is still there. This, in reaction to some people who say that Lin Dan is innocent because the racquet did not hit anyone. I brought out murder and the intent to murder as a comparison, and somehow I am supposed to have linked it.

- Some finds Li Mao is understandable and doing his part as a coach, meanwhile, condemning LD for overreacting.

Protesting against line calls/rulings/overrulings. Run-of-the-mill stuff.
Throwing racquet. Whoa....
I'm ok with every LD action until the point where he actually threw the racquet.

- Some brings up TH walk out incident to suggest hasher penalty on LD while ignore TH fight with the fan incident.

That is internal tournament; should be handled by PBSI. But anyway, even if someone else got scott-free before, does not mean LD should. I think no one here thinks TH is innocent during that incident.

- Some suggest that LD shouldn't be emotionally affected prior the fight with LM simply because the umpire has overruled the previous bad calls.

This is debatable. Probably, both players are affected.

There are many issues, but the single biggest issue is still LD throwing his racquet at someone. There are still people who claim this is not a big issue. Personally, I cannot understand that.

[TranslatorGuy]

Posts 133 and 134 will be deleted unless someone soon provides an intelligible translation
Translating now

[ye333]

Instead of "guessing" like this, why don't you spend some time watch the match? You can count how many bad calls there are (ctjcad counted, he said the total is 5, 4 overruled -- note that this is consistent with Zhong Bo's data) in the whole match? And figure out for yourself what changed from G1 to G2, LD became less agressive or LHI played better?

This part of your theory: "Knowing that close line calls could be called in, LHI, IMO, can play more riskier shots" is simply not reasonable. Everyone knows how "patriotic" KO line judges can be for a long time, and of course LHI knew it. So if LHI started to "know" something after G1, it has to be: the umpire is not on his side this time. He cannot simply play risky shots and let the line judges do their "job".

And don't forget, in 06 AG team match, LHI lost his 2nd game to LD 6:21, but came back to win the 3rd. I don't remember he got help from biased calls then.

It's funny to see someone who based all his arguments on guessing blaming ppl who really did some research. :eek: And I don't see anyone in the latter group claiming to be an "expert".


it seem everybody want to be an expert analysing the cause of LD's action. They viewed various video clips relating to the rallies leading up to the incident with great detail, thinking they got the situation figured out without a shadow of doubt. IMO, this is like studying a bush in a large forest and say i know all about that forest. U think LD blows up because of 1 bad call? I believe LD frustration is built up from set 2. Have anybody analyse LM actions in all of set 2 and 3? Umpire reversed line calls 4 times, actual bad line calls could be more than 4. LD pawned LHI 19 points in a row to win the first set. This is an amazing feat. It's like LD playing a novice. There is something bothering LD's mind that enable LHI to turn the game around and beat LD in set 2 and 3. Knowing that close line calls could be called in, LHI, IMO, can play more riskier shots while LD has to think twice on taking close to the line shots while force to make conservative shots and tactics. I can hear the tv commentators and see the rallies, like, here's a nice lift by LHI for LD to kill but LD didn't kill it. It isn't just bad line calls, LD is force to play to LHI's advantage, long rallies. This change the whole dynamic of the match. Also, there might be tension existed already between LM and LD before the match start.

I'm not saying LD throwing racket is justified, i'm saying some of u think u understand the whole situation from just those short video clips showing the LD's outburst. It like asking an expert volcanic geologist what and how mount st. helen blew up with just video of the volcano eruption, he can only understand ~25% and speculate 75%. If sysoh was the geologist, he would say he understood it 100%

[ye333]

Hi man I clearly wrote PSH vs. Taufik in the title of the video... :D

A good point though. I uploaded this video for a totally different reason a few weeks ago and didn't realize that it can be related to the current situation in the past few days. :cool:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Wjno0kqjQ&feature=user (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Wjno0kqjQ&feature=user)

this is one of the Lm reaction during the MO , it is also against Ld , from this point of the view , Lm said he was just stand up and gave some presure to the ref . and Lm was properly doin the same thing after the call during the Ko , from this clip , i dun think Lm reaction is against the player

[TranslatorGuy]

(Moderators and members, please leave me a PM for Chinese-to-English translations in the future if no one does that after a long time of waiting)

[ye333]

1. As a Chinese saying goes, "Before figuring out the truth, first make sure you have the facts".

2. I don't think he verdicted "LD gone mad because he just felt like to gone mad and LM has nothing to do with it".

LM may have done nothing wrong and still has "something" to do with LD losing control.


I am speechless if you like to pin point every sec as if it is carefully planned. And so your verdict is LD gone mad because he just felt like to gone mad and LM has nothing to do with it???:confused:

[hcyong]

I'm not saying LD throwing racket is justified, i'm saying some of u think u understand the whole situation from just those short video clips showing the LD's outburst. It like asking an expert volcanic geologist what and how mount st. helen blew up with just video of the volcano eruption, he can only understand ~25% and speculate 75%. If sysoh was the geologist, he would say he understood it 100%

What LD did was understandable but also wrong. It's like a crime of passion. Understandable but still wrong.

Note: I'm not linking LD's racquet throwing with any crime of passion.

[ye333]

Such a disclaimer is indeed necessary when dealing with fans. :D


What LD did was understandable but also wrong. It's like a crime of passion. Understandable but still wrong.

Note: I'm not linking LD's racquet throwing with any crime of passion.

[TranslatorGuy]

I know Kwun doesn't prefer/like chinese article, but these are two good one from sina and sohu.

林丹行为可以理解？ 非得等打完人才罚吗



2008-01-30 10:21:54
大 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:%20void%280%29;) 中 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:%20void%280%29;) 小 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:%20void%280%29;)
标签：林丹 (http://search.blog.sina.com.cn/blog/search?q=%C1%D6%B5%A4&tag=n&t=tag) 李矛 (http://search.blog.sina.com.cn/blog/search?q=%C0%EE%C3%AC&tag=n&t=tag) 羽毛球 (http://search.blog.sina.com.cn/blog/search?q=%D3%F0%C3%AB%C7%F2&tag=n&t=tag) 体育 (http://search.blog.sina.com.cn/blog/search?q=%CC%E5%D3%FD&tag=n&t=tag)
上周日，韩国羽毛球赛男单决赛中，林丹因对判罚不满与裁判发生了争执。这本来不是什么大事，但由于韩国队中 国籍教练李矛的介入而变的满城风雨，一时间国内多家媒体都对此事进行了报道。

事情的经过大家想必都知道了，这里就不再赘述，这次想说的是中国羽坛各方面的反应。

首先看看乒羽中心，主管羽毛球项目的主任刘凤岩对媒体说 (http://sports.sina.com.cn/o/2008-01-30/10123450964.shtml)：中国队不会处罚林丹，原因是林丹的行为可以理解，任何人在受到辱骂 后都会心态失衡，做出冲动举动。
http://i3.sinaimg.cn/ty/o/p/2008-01-27/U333P6T12D3445628F44DT20080127182229.jpg
你理解他吗

请大家注意这段话里的几个关键词。

不会处罚、可以理解：林丹在韩国公开赛上先后与裁判和对方教练发生激烈争执，在现场工作人员的阻隔下林丹同 志几乎做出了要打人的动作，这一点看过视频 (http://video.sina.com.cn/sports/o/bn/2008-01-29/10088129.shtml)和现场图 (http://sports.sina.com.cn/z/08badminton/photo/55193/)的朋友都应该能看出来，不管裁判的判罚是否真有问题，做为一名运动员，在比赛中做出这样的举动肯定是错误 的，怎么能说是“可以理解”？这样违背比赛规则的做法还“不会处罚”？试问是不是要等超级丹同志真的动了手 ，挨打的人开出医院的验伤证明，羽协才会对肇事者进行处罚？！

辱骂：林丹受到了对手辱骂？我们先做一个排除法，林丹被辱骂首先是他自己在接受采访时说的，那么辱骂林丹的 肯定不是韩 国对手李炫一或那个捷克主裁判，原因很简单，即使他们骂了林丹也听不懂。那么可能性只剩下一个了，李矛骂了 林丹。那么李矛骂了林丹什么？国内外大大小小的 媒体专访、对话、直击都没有说出来，李矛自己说，他只对林丹说了一句：“你是不是要打我？”

李矛当时和林丹僵持了一段时间，肯定不止说了这一句，也许是骂出了脏话，但林丹你别忘了，是你先把球拍砸向 李矛的，不管是有意无意，你砸了没有？砸李矛不对，砸别人或者谁都不砸，光砸拍子就对了？

接下来看看中国队男单教练钟波说的：李矛首先违反了规定，他从教练员椅子上站了起来，按照规则这是不允许的 ，我们上去找他理论，他就推了我一把。

关键词：首先，李矛“首先”违反了规则，没错，这点是李矛的问题，他不应该从椅子上站起来，但是中国队的教 练钟波和吉新鹏随后不也站起来了吗，一个巴掌拍不响，大家都违反了规则，不要五十步笑百步。

理论，钟波说李矛先推了他一把，但是电视镜头大家都看了，是钟波冲上去后先推了李矛胳膊一下，李矛随即回推 了一把，所不同的是火头上的李矛力气更大一些。

至于李永波同志的言论这里就不说了，他看没看比赛都只会说：林丹没错，我信他。

李矛与中国羽毛球队和李永波的矛盾由来已久，冰冻三尺非一日之寒，这次韩国赛的冲突仅是一个开始，不过就单 独林丹的行为来看，羽协不给处罚实在说不过去，以后的比赛这位被宠坏了的超级丹还不闹上房去？ ！

去年中国赛，李宗伟和鲍春来的决赛大家也都看了，平心而论，那场比赛的判罚几乎都对李宗伟不利，但李宗伟可 没像林丹那样大闹赛场。这次在韩国比赛，裁判向着本土选手是肯定的，但你林丹打了这么久比赛这点肚量都没有 ？

这样的行为必须处罚，你以为你是谁？

声明：写这篇东西主要针对的是林丹场上行为，并不是针对中国羽毛球队，李矛是中国人，但他也是韩国队的教练 ，体育就是体育，请不要把它上升到政治的高度。
Was Lin Dan's action justified? Can we only punish a person after he or she "has beaten up" someone?

Last Sunday, during Korea Open Men final match, a dispute broke out as a result of Lin Dan's dissatisfaction of the umpire's judgement, which is nothing of an extraordinary. However, things became controversial because Korea's badminton team coach Li Mao intervened during the dispute, which triggered massive news reporting from the country's (China) media.

Everybody understood what happened, and therefore a description of the event won't be given. This report will be dedicated to describing the reactions from various China's shuttle sports club.

Firstly, China's Table Tennis club head said "Team China will not punish Lin Dan because his actions are justified as anyone who had been verbally abused will not think rationally, thereby producing unthought actions"

PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THESE WORDS:

"Will not punish" & "justified": Lin Dan disputed with the umpire and opponent's coach during Korea Open. Besides this, the workers at the scene had managed to stop Lin Dan's provocative action. Those who have watched the videos that depict these two occurrences should be able to see that no matter whether the umpire's judgement is erroneous or not, as a sportsperson, such actions are not tolerated. Therefore, how can it be said that "they are justified"? Such rule-breakings still would not incur punishments? Do we need to wait for Super Dan to beat up a person first and wait for the injuries to be medically certified before the association can punish the player?

"Verbal abuse": Lin Dan was verbally abused by his opponent? Let's have a bit of "rule-out" thinking. Firstly, the claim of "Lin Dan was verbally abused" was made by himself during an interview, therefore the insult could not have been said by Lee Hyun-Il or the umpire. The reason is very simple: Lin Dan would not be able to understand the language of their vilification. Consequently, it can only be possible that Li Mao himself has scolded Lin Dan. But what did Li Mao say to Lin Dan? The country's (China) media did not say what it was, but Li Mao himself claimed he only said "Did you want to beat me up?"

The stalemate between Li Mao and Lin Dan lasted for a period of time, so the former must have said more than just a sentence; it is possible that Li Mao may have uttered a derogatory word. However, Lin Dan should not forget that it was him who FIRST threw the racquet at him. Throwing racquet at Li Mao or anyone else is wrong, but throwing racquet alone is permissible?

Secondly, let's take a look at what China Men's single Li Yongbo has to say: "Li Mao, first of all, broke the rules and regulations by standing up from his seat. In accordance to the rule, this is not permissible. Subsequently, we went to reason with him, but he gave me a push".

Keywords: "Firstly". Li Mao "was the first" to break the rule. Without a doubt, he had indeed broken this rule. Subsequent to that, the two Chinese coaches also stood up and walked to him - and in the process, broke the same rule. All in all, everybody had broken the same rule.

"Reasoning". Li Yongbo claimed that Li Mao was the first gave him a push, but video footages show that it was Yongbo himself who first did it, which Li Mao retaliated by giving him a push. However, the difference was only the strength of "pushing" in which Li Mao applied a stronger push.

As for Li Yongbo's reasoning, regardless of whether he has witnessed the match, he will only utter "Lin Dan was not at fault, I have faith in him."

This Korea Open match is only the beginning to the rivalry between Li Mao and Li Yongbo. Based on Lin Dan's action alone, it is unsatisfactory if the association does not punish him.

Last year's China Open Men final between Lee Chong Wei and Bao Chunlai, most of the judgements did not favour the former. Nevertheless, Chong Wei did not react similarly to Lin Dan. This year's Korea Open, the favourable judgements for Lee Hyun Il are evidential, yet having played badminton for such a long time, Lin Dan reacted as such?

(The article above does not mean to attack China’s Badminton team; Li Mao himself is a Chinese, but he is the coach for Korea’s team. No matter what, sports will remain as sports. Please do not elevate the issue to the political level)



Pardon my grammar and spelling mistakes. Impromptu translations are bad :p

[TranslatorGuy]

Article #134 mainly discusses Lin Dan's mentality. It a bit complex for me to translate it... sorry

[block306]

Article #134 mainly discusses Lin Dan's mentality. It a bit complex for me to translate it... sorry

Thanks- you have done well already.

[azabaz_ipoh]

thanks translatorguy. :) a good effort.

[ctjcad]

..
Secondly, let's take a look at what China Men's single Li Yongbo has to say: "Li Mao, first of all, broke the rules and regulations by standing up from his seat. In accordance to the rule, this is not permissible. Subsequently, we went to reason with him, but he gave me a push".
...
"Reasoning". Li Yongbo claimed that Li Mao was the first gave him a push, but video footages show that it was Yongbo himself who first did it, which Li Mao retaliated by giving him a push. However, the difference was only the strength of "pushing" in which Li Mao applied a stronger push.
..for us again, TranslatorGuy!:cool:..as for the above translation's part in bold, i assume they're typos?? As it should be Zhong Bo, who was the coach involved w/Li Mao, not LYB, at the time of the incident..:rolleyes: :cool:

[tyran]

1. As a Chinese saying goes, "Before figuring out the truth, first make sure you have the facts".

2. I don't think he verdicted "LD gone mad because he just felt like to gone mad and LM has nothing to do with it".

LM may have done nothing wrong and still has "something" to do with LD losing control.

as whatyou said,"Before figuring out the truth, first make sure you have the facts",however, your statement is based on guessing.
back to the video, LD walk directly to Korea coach seat after threwing the racket. this behavior could be judged as trying to attack someone.

[ye333]

I didn't "guess" anything in the post you replied. The last sentence is just a "reminder", mentioning the possibility of one situation. I didn't claim that's what happened.

I don't think anyone has judged "LD walk directly to Korea coach seat after threwing the racket" as "trying to attack someone", so are you proposing a new possibility here? :confused:


as whatyou said,"Before figuring out the truth, first make sure you have the facts",however, your statement is based on guessing.
back to the video, LD walk directly to Korea coach seat after threwing the racket. this behavior could be judged as trying to attack someone.

[TranslatorGuy]

My bad, ctjcad (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/member.php?u=6490). I think I better learn to differentiate between Yongbo and Zhongbo's names!

[Birdwood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Wjno0kqjQ&feature=user (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Wjno0kqjQ&feature=user)

this is one of the Lm reaction during the MO , it is also against Ld , from this point of the view , Lm said he was just stand up and gave some presure to the ref . and Lm was properly doin the same thing after the call during the Ko , from this clip , i dun think Lm reaction is against the player


Hi man I clearly wrote PSH vs. Taufik in the title of the video... :D

A good point though. I uploaded this video for a totally different reason a few weeks ago and didn't realize that it can be related to the current situation in the past few days. :cool:

I wouldn't pay attention to what he said. He couldn't even tell TH apart from LD :eek:

On the other hand, what LM did in MO 08 does not prove whether he did the same in MSF KO 08 or not :cool:

[ye333]

I don't like your attitude. Whether he can tell TH from LD or not has nothing to do with his main point, that is it is possible that LM tends to react strongly when controversial calls happen.


I wouldn't pay attention to what he said. He couldn't even tell TH apart from LD :eek:

On the other hand, what LM did in MO 08 does not prove whether he did the same in MSF KO 08 or not :cool:

[Birdwood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Wjno0kqjQ&feature=user (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Wjno0kqjQ&feature=user)

this is one of the Lm reaction during the MO , it is also against Ld , from this point of the view , Lm said he was just stand up and gave some presure to the ref . and Lm was properly doin the same thing after the call during the Ko , from this clip , i dun think Lm reaction is against the player


I don't like your attitude. Whether he can tell TH from LD or not has nothing to do with his main point, that is it is possible that LM tends to react strongly when controversial calls happen.

If someone got his view all mixed up, how can I expect his main point correct :confused:

His argument was that LM's reaction in MO 08 (shown in video) was also toward LD. But it's not. So the comparison with MSF KO 08 was invalid. It's a "make-believe" :cool:

[Birdwood]

I know Kwun doesn't prefer/like chinese article, but these are two good one from sina and sohu.

林丹行为可以理解？ 非得等打完人才罚吗



2008-01-30 10:21:54
大 (http://javascript<b></b>: void(0);) 中 (http://javascript<b></b>: void(0);) 小 (http://javascript<b></b>: void(0);)
标签：林丹 (http://search.blog.sina.com.cn/blog/search?q=%C1%D6%B5%A4&tag=n&t=tag) 李矛 (http://search.blog.sina.com.cn/blog/search?q=%C0%EE%C3%AC&tag=n&t=tag) 羽毛球 (http://search.blog.sina.com.cn/blog/search?q=%D3%F0%C3%AB%C7%F2&tag=n&t=tag) 体育 (http://search.blog.sina.com.cn/blog/search?q=%CC%E5%D3%FD&tag=n&t=tag)
上周日，韩国羽毛球赛男单决赛中，林丹因对判罚不满与裁判发生了争执。这本来不是什么大事，但由于韩国队中 国籍教练李矛的介入而变的满城风雨，一时间国内多家媒体都对此事进行了报道。
.....

声明：写这篇东西主要针对的是林丹场上行为，并不是针对中国羽毛球队，李矛是中国人，但他也是韩国队的教练 ，体育就是体育，请不要把它上升到政治的高度。


Was Lin Dan's action justified? Can we only punish a person after he or she "has beaten up" someone?

Last Sunday, during Korea Open Men final match, a dispute broke out as a result of Lin Dan's dissatisfaction of the umpire's judgement, which is nothing of an extraordinary. However, things became controversial because Korea's badminton team coach Li Mao intervened during the dispute, which triggered massive news reporting from the country's (China) media.
......

(The article above does not mean to attack China’s Badminton team; Li Mao himself is a Chinese, but he is the coach for Korea’s team. No matter what, sports will remain as sports. Please do not elevate the issue to the political level)

Pardon my grammar and spelling mistakes. Impromptu translations are bad :p

TranslatorGuy, thanks for translating the post #133, but I don't think your time was wisely used in this case. The Chinese piece was not a news article. It's someone's personal opinion. We don't know who wrote it so we can't debate the nameless author for what he/she said, worst of all, the author is not even a BCer and unlikely he/she will read our responses :cool:

I hope BC forum is not a clipboard simply for copying and pasting of personal opinions of just everyone from outside BC and without even a name attached :rolleyes:

[alfa-2]

Have anyone seen both the video of BCL vs LCW (CO'07) and LYI vs LD (KO '08)?? I have seen how bad the line calls were at CO MS Final. But too bad i missed the match between LYI vs LD. Were they as bad then?

[Birdwood]

Have anyone seen both the video of BCL vs LCW (CO'07) and LYI vs LD (KO '08)?? I have seen how bad the line calls were at CO MS Final. But too bad i missed the match between LYI vs LD. Were they as bad then?

There are video files for that match to be downloaded in the sub-forum "Badminton Tournament Video Sharing". You can also view it at YouTube.

[alfa-2]

There are video files for that match to be downloaded in the sub-forum "Badminton Tournament Video Sharing". You can also view it at YouTube.

I mean to watch it live on cable TV, most videos on youtube are blurry, like seeing something with my granny's spectacles.:D:D:D:D

[tyran]

I don't think anyone has judged "LD walk directly to Korea coach seat after threwing the racket" as "trying to attack someone", so are you proposing a new possibility here? :confused:

LD smashed his racket toward LM, after that he walk toward LM in fast pace and with a pointing finger. So what he was trying to do? Obviosly, this is a provocation. if nobody stopped him, for sure LM was in danger.

[hcyong]

LD smashed his racket toward LM, after that he walk toward LM in fast pace and with a pointing finger. So what he was trying to do? Obviosly, this is a provocation. if nobody stopped him, for sure LM was in danger.

I don't believe LD was going to hurt anybody. It's all just a tough-guy show of aggression. Under all that emotion, he still realised his career may be over if he laid hands on LM. Still absolutely wrong though. Just my opinion.