Penalty for Lin Dan

[kwun]

what do people think BWF should do?

[stork]

would vote for 3 or 4 SS-suspension, but can´t find the right button:confused:

[Qidong]

would vote for 3 or 4 SS-suspension, but can´t find the right button:confused:

I would vote for 5. Maybe need a ">2".

[jamesd20]

My Vote is for Large Fine and Suspension.

[ssjtygrysek]

I think that LD should be suspended for at least 2 SS events. If TH did get suspended for 1 SS just for a "non-destructive" walking away from the game then LD should at least get 2 SS for not only arguing, but throwing a racket at a coach, as well wanting to attack someone with the racket. This is a much worse situation comapred to TH's. All TH did was walk away (which i think was a really calm thing to do, he was pissed but didn't let his anger explode on anyway, he just walked away). I'm sure he knows there were consequences for it but i'm sure he realized that if he caused a fiasco like the KO then it would have been much worse.

BWF shouldn't give a smaller or equal penalty to LD as to TH considering the difference in situation. In order to keep credibility BWF needs to be consistent and place a higher penalty on LD then TH. No matter how much that may hurt the chinese team, if a player does something wrong he needs to suffer the consequences. And if the Chinese team wants to pull out their whole team from those tournaments then be it, the BWF can't be blackmailed by a country to make their decisions. "If you suspend LD we are not sending any players to the two tournaments" What is that like 4th grade response?? Fine don't send your players, gives other countries a better chance.

I also think that the korean team should be penalized as well for the coaches outburst. As long as you are part of the team, let it be player coach or anyone else your actions reflect the teams image and therefore when you suffer the consequences, the team suffers as well. I don't think LD should be suspended from the OG, its a little too far from now. Although if this incident happended right before the OG then I would say suspend him from OG, BWF needs to make sure everyone understands the consequences of their actions.

Now if LD didn't throw his racket and theaten to attack people with his body language then I don't think he would have desrved a suspension but since he did then he deserves it.

[HiddenPower]

didn't TH only get fined 200 for walking out?
CBA is also filing complain against LM.

So my guess is 2 or 3.

[ssjtygrysek]

I'm pretty positve TH did get a one tournament suspension

[Wong8Egg]

I voted for one tournament suspension. I think LD must responsible for throwing the racket.

[HiddenPower]

let LD skip Germany Open, I really want to see him in AE.

[cooler]

I'm pretty positve TH did get a one tournament suspensionTH had skipped many tournaments before anyway, voluntarily.

[LazyBuddy]

I think that LD should be suspended for at least 2 SS events. If TH did get suspended for 1 SS just for a "non-destructive" walking away from the game then LD should at least get 2 SS for not only arguing, but throwing a racket at a coach, as well wanting to attack someone with the racket. This is a much worse situation comapred to TH's. All TH did was walk away (which i think was a really calm thing to do, he was pissed but didn't let his anger explode on anyway, he just walked away). I'm sure he knows there were consequences for it but i'm sure he realized that if he caused a fiasco like the KO then it would have been much worse.

BWF shouldn't give a smaller or equal penalty to LD as to TH considering the difference in situation. In order to keep credibility BWF needs to be consistent and place a higher penalty on LD then TH. No matter how much that may hurt the chinese team, if a player does something wrong he needs to suffer the consequences. And if the Chinese team wants to pull out their whole team from those tournaments then be it, the BWF can't be blackmailed by a country to make their decisions. "If you suspend LD we are not sending any players to the two tournaments" What is that like 4th grade response?? Fine don't send your players, gives other countries a better chance.

I also think that the korean team should be penalized as well for the coaches outburst. As long as you are part of the team, let it be player coach or anyone else your actions reflect the teams image and therefore when you suffer the consequences, the team suffers as well. I don't think LD should be suspended from the OG, its a little too far from now. Although if this incident happended right before the OG then I would say suspend him from OG, BWF needs to make sure everyone understands the consequences of their actions.

Now if LD didn't throw his racket and theaten to attack people with his body language then I don't think he would have desrved a suspension but since he did then he deserves it.


However, you forgot the KO is ranked as the "worst tournament" by many players. The comments can speak for itself, as LD faced a much worse treatment than TH during HKO. Also, LD's incident happened at the most critical stage, 3rd set, deuce, of MSF, which is totally not the case for TH.

Anyway, I am not saying LD has the rights to be this out of control. However, I think small fine (consider how much badminton players making) and/or suspension of 1SS (this is Olympic year, and LD himself is a victim of the screw up line judgement 1st) should be good enough to warn the players. :o

Overall, the punishment should serve the purpose to warn the players and coaches to behave. It should not serve the purpose to ruin a player's 4-yrs awaiting of Olympics. Further more, it should NEVER give a hint to the coaches or fans an idea of "hey, let's tease the opponents, let him/her doing something crazy, in order to help our own players".

[ssjtygrysek]

Voluntarily and a suspension are two different things though.

[cooler]

Voluntarily and a suspension are two different things though.

i know.
what i mean is missing out 1 tournament isnt a big deal for TH, he skips them regularly.

[hador7]

I think that LD should be suspended for at least 2 SS events. If TH did get suspended for 1 SS just for a "non-destructive" walking away from the game then LD should at least get 2 SS for not only arguing, but throwing a racket at a coach, as well wanting to attack someone with the racket. This is a much worse situation comapred to TH's. All TH did was walk away (which i think was a really calm thing to do, he was pissed but didn't let his anger explode on anyway, he just walked away). I'm sure he knows there were consequences for it but i'm sure he realized that if he caused a fiasco like the KO then it would have been much worse.

BWF shouldn't give a smaller or equal penalty to LD as to TH considering the difference in situation. In order to keep credibility BWF needs to be consistent and place a higher penalty on LD then TH. No matter how much that may hurt the chinese team, if a player does something wrong he needs to suffer the consequences. And if the Chinese team wants to pull out their whole team from those tournaments then be it, the BWF can't be blackmailed by a country to make their decisions. "If you suspend LD we are not sending any players to the two tournaments" What is that like 4th grade response?? Fine don't send your players, gives other countries a better chance.

I also think that the korean team should be penalized as well for the coaches outburst. As long as you are part of the team, let it be player coach or anyone else your actions reflect the teams image and therefore when you suffer the consequences, the team suffers as well. I don't think LD should be suspended from the OG, its a little too far from now. Although if this incident happended right before the OG then I would say suspend him from OG, BWF needs to make sure everyone understands the consequences of their actions.

Now if LD didn't throw his racket and theaten to attack people with his body language then I don't think he would have desrved a suspension but since he did then he deserves it.


I think you might be being a little bit biased against LD. I'm not a fan of either LD or TH and I think both of them reacted badly to the situations that they were faced with. But they were entirely different situations. TH walked out after 1 bad call early in the game. LD was reacting to several calls and eventually finished the game. Yes, he tossed his racket and that was wrong, but it was in reaction to Li Mao who was interfering in a crucial point of the game: 3rd set, deuce, of the finals of a major championship. I agree with you to an extent in that LD should get a penalty if he did in fact toss it with the intention of hitting Li Mao but I really haven't seen any video of this. My thought is that he tossed it half way in Li Mao's direction to send him a message but not to purposefully hit him or cause physical damage. More like, "Hey, don't interfere. This isn't your game." But as I said, I haven't seen any video to show the actual racket throwing. Of course, if LD does get suspended, I'm sure Li Mao will be faced with some sort of fine as well for interfering at such a critical point in a match.

Second thing, and this is the main point I want to make, is you said let the Chinese team pull out of the tournaments. I'm a Business Marketing major and I have to say, if China ever did pull out of the major tournaments, sponsorship of badminton will go down big time. I don't have the figures but I can confidently say that Chinese viewers/supporters are the largest segment of the market. If the Chinese team pulled out of the tournaments for any given period, television ratings go down. What does that mean? It means sponsorship goes down. That results in decreased revenues and a decrease in funding, thus, leading to a downward spiral that isn't good for badminton in general.

[samuel882]

Large Fine and suspension.
> USD 10K
He can continue to participate in ALL remaining SS, but suspense him for OG.
We don't wish to witness another racket throwing incidents for such a big events like this.
Same must be enforced to LM as well.

[cooler]

rest assure, no BWF rulings will be happy by both sides.
The right ruling will the one which pisses off 50% of the fans, and welcomed by the other 50%.

[nibaxiang]

hehe, my vote: no penalty (my take on this, BWF may just take some small fine).

No saying what LD did is right. But BWF should fix the root of this first. Punish the cheaters first, to prevent that from happenning again. LD is simple a victim of the whole cheating thing.

In my opinion, there is a good portion of the linemen and TVmen on duty were cheaters. How many times their calls had been overruled by the umpire in this single match alone? That should tell us something. And the umpire agreed in a later interview that the ciritical & controversial ruling was WRONG, after he reviewed it again on TV.

One lineman can make mistake from time to time, which is considered fair & human nature. A group of people made the SAME mistake at the SAME time? You tell me what's going on.

A good action on this is to bypass tournaments in Korea (No offense to anybody) and let the cheaters play themselves, until something's done to improve the situation. If the same cheating thing happened in China, I would still propose the same solution.

OK, enough time has been wasted, I am going for a tea... :)

[cooler]

on the LD throwing his racket, there isn't a clear by-law on this infraction(correct me if i'm wrong). Therefore, BWF has a large degree of freedom on this matter. However, the by-law is clear on

1. walkout
2. coaches interferring with Umpire

[ye333]

I guess that's true. Ppl are not smart enough to imagine such a thing can happen on a badminton court. :D


on the LD throwing his racket, there isn't a clear by-law on this infraction(correct me if i'm wrong). Therefore, BWF has a large degree of freedom on this matter. However, the by-law is clear on

1. walkout
2. coaches interferring with Umpire

[morphy]

I'd say heavy penalty for LD and not just for throwing the racket. Heavy penalty also for showing no remorse at all for his actions. I don't think it matters so much if he apologized to LM ( altho it would be good) but to not be sorry at all even to his own fans?

When someone shows no remorse they are basically saying "If the same situation arises again, I'll do the same thing I did before. I did nothing wrong before so why should I change?". And that is why the punishment should be hard.

How hard is it to say " I'm sorry I let my fans down and for the sport of badminton by my actions. It was a mistake, it was in the heat of the moment and I wasn't thinking clearly. I will never conduct myself in that manner in the future."? No need to mention LM's name, just a straight honest apology for admiting he made a mistake.

So LD is digging his own grave here. Either he is very stupid or he has terrible PR ppl around him. Now is his chance to make right, not after BWF imposes a penalty/fine or whatever as then an apology after that will feel forced and not sincere.
As for LM that's another separate matter, Let BWF deal with it.

[stork]

I'd say heavy penalty for LD and not just for throwing the racket. Heavy penalty also for showing no remorse at all for his actions. I don't think it matters so much if he apologized to LM ( altho it would be good) but to not be sorry at all even to his own fans?

When someone shows no remorse they are basically saying "If the same situation arises again, I'll do the same thing I did before. I did nothing wrong before so why should I change?". And that is why the punishment should be hard.

How hard is it to say " I'm sorry I let my fans down and for the sport of badminton by my actions. It was a mistake, it was in the heat of the moment and I wasn't thinking clearly. I will never conduct myself in that manner in the future."? No need to mention LM's name, just a straight honest apology for admiting he made a mistake.

So LD is digging his own grave here. Either he is very stupid or he has terrible PR ppl around him. Now is his chance to make right, not after BWF imposes a penalty/fine or whatever as then an apology after that will feel forced and not sincere.
As for LM that's another separate matter, Let BWF deal with it.

The first post from Canada i can fully agree with.

[nibaxiang]

The first post from Canada i can fully agree with.

Interesting comments, indeed. In reality, canadians live in a much wider spectrum than we may think, which is a good thing. :)

[TedFong]

I'd say heavy penalty for LD and not just for throwing the racket. Heavy penalty also for showing no remorse at all for his actions. I don't think it matters so much if he apologized to LM ( altho it would be good) but to not be sorry at all even to his own fans?

When someone shows no remorse they are basically saying "If the same situation arises again, I'll do the same thing I did before. I did nothing wrong before so why should I change?". And that is why the punishment should be hard.

How hard is it to say " I'm sorry I let my fans down and for the sport of badminton by my actions. It was a mistake, it was in the heat of the moment and I wasn't thinking clearly. I will never conduct myself in that manner in the future."? No need to mention LM's name, just a straight honest apology for admiting he made a mistake.

So LD is digging his own grave here. Either he is very stupid or he has terrible PR ppl around him. Now is his chance to make right, not after BWF imposes a penalty/fine or whatever as then an apology after that will feel forced and not sincere.
As for LM that's another separate matter, Let BWF deal with it.

100% agree, a simple apology would make a big diffrence

[Konnichiwa]

When someone shows no remorse they are basically saying "If the same situation arises again, I'll do the same thing I did before. I did nothing wrong before so why should I change?". And that is why the punishment should be hard.

wtf.... hes not saying that all.... its amazing the words that can be put in someones mouth .... why should lin dan be suspended and li mao walk away with nothing?

[Dreamzz]

i'm voting for a 1 match suspension, i don't think suspending him for the OG is realistic. first warning, next time it'll be a big one.

[bananakid]

I'd say heavy penalty for LD and not just for throwing the racket. Heavy penalty also for showing no remorse at all for his actions. I don't think it matters so much if he apologized to LM ( altho it would be good) but to not be sorry at all even to his own fans?

When someone shows no remorse they are basically saying "If the same situation arises again, I'll do the same thing I did before. I did nothing wrong before so why should I change?". And that is why the punishment should be hard.

How hard is it to say " I'm sorry I let my fans down and for the sport of badminton by my actions. It was a mistake, it was in the heat of the moment and I wasn't thinking clearly. I will never conduct myself in that manner in the future."? No need to mention LM's name, just a straight honest apology for admiting he made a mistake.

So LD is digging his own grave here. Either he is very stupid or he has terrible PR ppl around him. Now is his chance to make right, not after BWF imposes a penalty/fine or whatever as then an apology after that will feel forced and not sincere.
As for LM that's another separate matter, Let BWF deal with it.

First of all, I always find it amazing how when some controversial situations occurred, a brand new member will pop out from nowhere with plenty of knowledge about every aspect of international badminton like they have been around this forum for years... always a coincident...:rolleyes: + they always have plenty to say. If I were to play detective, I would probably be able to find out your usual login name.. I just don't have the time to do so.

Secondly, the high-lighted is nothing more than your assumption, and if you were a lawyer, the judge will definitely not listen to your own assumption and basically tell the jury to forget what you just said.:eek:

[Dreamzz]

i'm not convinced that the punishment (if there is to be any) should be affected by whether the player shows any remorse after the incident. it should really only be dictated by the action committed by the player at that time.

[eaglehelang]

didn't TH only get fined 200 for walking out?
CBA is also filing complain against LM.

So my guess is 2 or 3.

1) Taufik dont earn ranking pts for that tourney, HK Open 2006
2) Lost prize $$$ for HK Open 2006, although it was only QF, SS distribution is from rd 1
3) Fine, dunno how much
4) Suspension of 1 SS.

1) & 2) was announced by Displinary Board. It's in HK 2006 threads & LD blog thread.
So, LD's actions was more serious, sanctions should be stiffer.

[huangkwokhau]

When someone shows no remorse they are basically saying "If the same situation arises again, I'll do the same thing I did before. I did nothing wrong before so why should I change?". And that is why the punishment should be hard.

wtf.... hes not saying that all.... its amazing the words that can be put in someones mouth .... why should lin dan be suspended and li mao walk away with nothing?
Well...in this case.. TH could not be punished...Chinese referee who provoked TH was WALK FREE.....TH, calmly walked out, no argument.....referee said to TH" if you do not like the decision, dont play"..thats show you how qualified Chinese referee said that to players:cool:.....imagine any referees said that to any chinese players like LD..:rolleyes::rolleyes::confused::confused:

[morphy]

wtf.... hes not saying that all.... its amazing the words that can be put in someones mouth .... why should lin dan be suspended and li mao walk away with nothing?

You don't need someone to actually say something to confirm your impressions about them. If someone acted inconsiderate or stupidly do you need to hear them say " I am stupid " or " I am inconsiderate "? Most likely they won't unless they know they did something stupid or did something inconsiderate in the first place. Same principle applies here. A person's action speaks to others about his character. Likewise can be said by not doing something. The act of doing nothing is still an act. True he never uttered those words...but in my opinion that's the picture he is potraying of himself. I just happen to paint that picture in the form of words so it could be understood. It's also known as an opinion, you do know what an opinion is I hope. and I don't expect everyone to agree with it.

Feel free to disagree, after all that's what makes for an open discussion, unlike the one person yesterday who thinks all such threads be closed just because the opnions don't agree with his. It would be really boring if everyone agreed with everyone, there'd be nothing else to discuss but the weather and right here it's nothing but frigid cold ;). So if you think I'm putting 'words' in his mouth, I'm guilty as charged. ;)

Also I never said LD should go scott free. I said LM's role is a separate matter entirely. If you looked at my previous posts on this subject, I was not giving LM a free pass. Yes he played a role ( the extent to which is open to debate ) but ultimately LD is 100% responsible for his own actions, not LM , not the linesperson or anyone but himself. No matter how provoked he was, he had a choice to make - keep his cool or lose it and throw his racket. He chose the latter. Alot of us have felt pressure in one way or another, in work, school at home...and sometimes feel like just losing it. We may think about doing something stupid but we just think about it and that's as far as we go. Problems come when we don't, like in LD's case he wsn't thinking about where he was, what the consequences were, he let his anger get the better of him and lost control. And then when he has time to think about what he did, he was still not repentant. That's pretty damning imo.

As for LM if he acted inaccordingly then he should be dealt with also. Even if LD didn't throw his racket and completely ignored LM, if LM got off his chair and gestured at LD or said anything to LD and/or try to influence the umpire that is also wrong and he should be disciplined. You can't have coaches start doing that or it could be total anarchy at every courtside in every tournament. There has to be rules and standards and everyone must abide by it.


As for not taking into account a person's remorse or lack thereof, you can also make a valid argument for that. I'm stating my opinion on it and its no more or less valid than anyone else's. But its not uncommon idea - there are judicial systems that actually take that into account when determining the sentence in a sentencing trial.

btw bananakid: the conspiracy theory is quite interesting I must say. And we all love conspiracies!

[vching]

large fine and suspension. Heavy penalties deter further wrongdoings.

[hcyong]

on the LD throwing his racket, there isn't a clear by-law on this infraction(correct me if i'm wrong). Therefore, BWF has a large degree of freedom on this matter. However, the by-law is clear on

1. walkout
2. coaches interferring with Umpire

There is also no BWF law that says you can't throw a knife at someone.

It's possible that there is some vague article somewhere about bringing the game into disrepute.

My vote is to ban LD for 1 SS. LM should not get off scott-free either, but his punishment should definitely be less severe than LD's.

[cooler]

I guess that's true. Ppl are not smart enough to imagine such a thing can happen on a badminton court. :D

that's right, maybe why TH got off with nothing here too:D

"After beating Malaysian Yeoh Kay Bin to scrape through to the semi-finals, the irate Indonesian gestured angrily at a line judge and waved his racket in the umpire's face before reluctantly shaking his hand and marching off the court.
Moments later, when he returned to the courts to calm down, a shirtless Taufik began remonstrating with worried-looking volunteers and officials before security guards surrounded him and told him to leave."

[hcyong]

that's right, maybe why TH got off with nothing here too:D

"After beating Malaysian Yeoh Kay Bin to scrape through to the semi-finals, the irate Indonesian gestured angrily at a line judge and waved his racket in the umpire's face before reluctantly shaking his hand and marching off the court.
Moments later, when he returned to the courts to calm down, a shirtless Taufik began remonstrating with worried-looking volunteers and officials before security guards surrounded him and told him to leave."

Your tactics are obvious. You are distracting people from what LD did by keeping the finger firmly pointed at others (LM and TH).

Well, there are lots of guilty people around, and LD definitely belongs in that group. But his one act of hurling his racket at his opponent makes him more guilty than others.

[taufik-ist]

that's right, maybe why TH got off with nothing here too:D

"After beating Malaysian Yeoh Kay Bin to scrape through to the semi-finals, the irate Indonesian gestured angrily at a line judge and waved his racket in the umpire's face before reluctantly shaking his hand and marching off the court.
Moments later, when he returned to the courts to calm down, a shirtless Taufik began remonstrating with worried-looking volunteers and officials before security guards surrounded him and told him to leave."

you have voted for "no penalty" :D :D :D

[victory]

Large fine & suspension!

[cooler]

Your tactics are obvious. You are distracting people from what LD did by keeping the finger firmly pointed at others (LM and TH).

Well, there are lots of guilty people around, and LD definitely belongs in that group. But his one act of hurling his racket at his opponent makes him more guilty than others.

did i said LD's action is right??

i was only presenting historical facts and let people weigh in the facts.
As for BWF executives, they should make judgement base on past precedents since these infractions are not in the by-laws, and to be consistent relative to past rultings. Any good juridical system do that in difficult cases, they look at past cases to guide them for a final and balanced ruling. Are these lawyers and judges making distraction of the case at hand too?

I think this is also a good time for the BWF to add in new by-laws relating to improper conducts in the public tournaments.

[super__gao]

Your tactics are obvious. You are distracting people from what LD did by keeping the finger firmly pointed at others (LM and TH).

Well, there are lots of guilty people around, and LD definitely belongs in that group. But his one act of hurling his racket at his opponent makes him more guilty than others.

in the words of the great bart simpson, Chill out dude.
i don't think he's ever had the thought of distracting people from what LD did. and plus, you don't even have to read what he says if they don't want to. just ignore it. i know i sure do..... all the time hahahahhahah j/k

[super__gao]

if that sounded like i ignore "cooler"'s opinion, i don't. i like your opinion :D

[azabaz_ipoh]

I'd say heavy penalty for LD and not just for throwing the racket. Heavy penalty also for showing no remorse at all for his actions. I don't think it matters so much if he apologized to LM ( altho it would be good) but to not be sorry at all even to his own fans?

When someone shows no remorse they are basically saying "If the same situation arises again, I'll do the same thing I did before. I did nothing wrong before so why should I change?". And that is why the punishment should be hard.

How hard is it to say " I'm sorry I let my fans down and for the sport of badminton by my actions. It was a mistake, it was in the heat of the moment and I wasn't thinking clearly. I will never conduct myself in that manner in the future."? No need to mention LM's name, just a straight honest apology for admiting he made a mistake.

So LD is digging his own grave here. Either he is very stupid or he has terrible PR ppl around him. Now is his chance to make right, not after BWF imposes a penalty/fine or whatever as then an apology after that will feel forced and not sincere.
As for LM that's another separate matter, Let BWF deal with it.

i agree. :)


When someone shows no remorse they are basically saying "If the same situation arises again, I'll do the same thing I did before. I did nothing wrong before so why should I change?". And that is why the punishment should be hard.

wtf.... hes not saying that all.... its amazing the words that can be put in someones mouth .... why should lin dan be suspended and li mao walk away with nothing?

Both LD and LM should be penalize. in fact i think even the linesperson should be penalize for playing a part in the whole fiasco.


Well...in this case.. TH could not be punished...Chinese referee who provoked TH was WALK FREE.....TH, calmly walked out, no argument.....referee said to TH" if you do not like the decision, dont play"..thats show you how qualified Chinese referee said that to players:cool:.....imagine any referees said that to any chinese players like LD..:rolleyes::rolleyes::confused::confused:

sad that this kind of things happen in badminton but walking away is a better way of showing your protest than throwing racket violently and acting aggressive with a racket in your hand. TH was penalized for that action which i think he knew would happen and thus LD should not be surprised if he was penalize too for his actions.


You don't need someone to actually say something to confirm your impressions about them. If someone acted inconsiderate or stupidly do you need to hear them say " I am stupid " or " I am inconsiderate "? Most likely they won't unless they know they did something stupid or did something inconsiderate in the first place. Same principle applies here. A person's action speaks to others about his character. Likewise can be said by not doing something. The act of doing nothing is still an act. True he never uttered those words...but in my opinion that's the picture he is potraying of himself. I just happen to paint that picture in the form of words so it could be understood. It's also known as an opinion, you do know what an opinion is I hope. and I don't expect everyone to agree with it.

Feel free to disagree, after all that's what makes for an open discussion, unlike the one person yesterday who thinks all such threads be closed just because the opnions don't agree with his. It would be really boring if everyone agreed with everyone, there'd be nothing else to discuss but the weather and right here it's nothing but frigid cold ;). So if you think I'm putting 'words' in his mouth, I'm guilty as charged. ;)

Also I never said LD should go scott free. I said LM's role is a separate matter entirely. If you looked at my previous posts on this subject, I was not giving LM a free pass. Yes he played a role ( the extent to which is open to debate ) but ultimately LD is 100% responsible for his own actions, not LM , not the linesperson or anyone but himself. No matter how provoked he was, he had a choice to make - keep his cool or lose it and throw his racket. He chose the latter. Alot of us have felt pressure in one way or another, in work, school at home...and sometimes feel like just losing it. We may think about doing something stupid but we just think about it and that's as far as we go. Problems come when we don't, like in LD's case he wsn't thinking about where he was, what the consequences were, he let his anger get the better of him and lost control. And then when he has time to think about what he did, he was still not repentant. That's pretty damning imo.

As for LM if he acted inaccordingly then he should be dealt with also. Even if LD didn't throw his racket and completely ignored LM, if LM got off his chair and gestured at LD or said anything to LD and/or try to influence the umpire that is also wrong and he should be disciplined. You can't have coaches start doing that or it could be total anarchy at every courtside in every tournament. There has to be rules and standards and everyone must abide by it.


As for not taking into account a person's remorse or lack thereof, you can also make a valid argument for that. I'm stating my opinion on it and its no more or less valid than anyone else's. But its not uncommon idea - there are judicial systems that actually take that into account when determining the sentence in a sentencing trial.

btw bananakid: the conspiracy theory is quite interesting I must say. And we all love conspiracies!

again, i agree. :D

a lot of people are kind of protecting and making excuses for LD because they think he was provoked into it. nobody here are putting the blame on LD only. they also blame LM and the linesperson. but LD threw a racket! he threw a racket at a group of people. he could hurt someone.

TH was penalize for what he did. other players have been penalized before for a myriad of misconducts before. and what LD did was one of the top ones for the violent way he acted.

my vote? large fine and suspensions of at least 2 SS for LD. and the same goes for LM. large fine and he could not attend any of his charges matches for 1 or 2 SS. and the korean organizer should also be given a large fine for letting a bias linesperson do that in the finals. and Korean open suspended for one year. this will deter all party from repeating this offense. ;)

[hcyong]

in the words of the great bart simpson, Chill out dude.
i don't think he's ever had the thought of distracting people from what LD did. and plus, you don't even have to read what he says if they don't want to. just ignore it. i know i sure do..... all the time hahahahhahah j/k

hey, you can ignore my post, too, you know.

[hcyong]

did i said LD's action is right??

i was only presenting historical facts and let people weigh in the facts.
As for BWF executives, they should make judgement base on past precedents since these infractions are not in the by-laws, and to be consistent relative to past rultings. Any good juridical system do that in difficult cases, they look at past cases to guide them for a final and balanced ruling. Would you say these lawyers and judges making distraction of the case at hand too?

I think this is also a good time for the BWF to add in new by-laws relating to improper conducts in the public tournaments.

At least you think LD's action does not warrant any punishment. In most countries, throwing a projectile at someone (ie. with a purpose to injure) warrants an appearance in state court.

TH got some punishment for walking out. Why should LD get off scott-free? LM should also get some punishment, but that's not what this thread is about.

[eaglehelang]

that's right, maybe why TH got off with nothing here too:D

"After beating Malaysian Yeoh Kay Bin to scrape through to the semi-finals, the irate Indonesian gestured angrily at a line judge and waved his racket in the umpire's face before reluctantly shaking his hand and marching off the court.
Moments later, when he returned to the courts to calm down, a shirtless Taufik began remonstrating with worried-looking volunteers and officials before security guards surrounded him and told him to leave."

It was after the match was over Cooler. It was also in the malay newspapers. And Taufik didnt throw anything at any human.
If match was still on, some umpires who are more strict would have given red card.

The precedent that have been compared is Taufik's punishment for walking out of HK Open 2006 -Taufik just pack up his bag, shake hands & left.
The list of sanctions has already been posted in this thread. If BWF dont punish or gives out penalty less than Taufik's, it would be seen as inconsistent.

[cooler]

It was after the match was over Cooler. And Taufik didnt throw anything at any human.
If match was still on, some umpires who are more strict would have given yellow or red card.

why would an improper conduct is less 'threatening' after the match than during the match? In TH's case, it was directed at an umpire and line judge!!!!

[Hitman71]

The umpire should said " If you don't like it, don't play " to LD. Then LD will just walk away . No racket throwing, no shoving, shouting etc etc.... Right ? hehehehe

And I won't have to vote for large fine and suspension ...

[hcyong]

why would an improper conduct is less 'threatening' after the match than during the match? In TH's case, it was directed at an umpire and line judge!!!!

It's equally threatening whether before, during or after the match. It is equally threatening whether it is directed at official, linejudge, player or anyone else. But it is more threatening if you actually throw your racquet at your target.

[super__gao]

It was after the match was over Cooler. It was also in the malay newspapers. And Taufik didnt throw anything at any human.
If match was still on, some umpires who are more strict would have given red card.

The precedent that have been compared is Taufik's punishment for walking out of HK Open 2006 -Taufik just pack up his bag, shake hands & left.
The list of sanctions has already been posted in this thread. If BWF dont punish or gives out penalty less than Taufik's, it would be seen as inconsistent.

you need to remember this is china we're talking about. Lin Dan is a freaking superstar over there. you know who liu xiang is? he won 1 gold medal in 2004 for track and now he's set for life. all of a sudden he's in movies, he sings, he's filthy rich, his face is everywhere too!!
Lin dan is not quite the level as this guy but he's pretty close. do you really think that the chinese government will throw lin dan in jail for almost hitting someone with a racket?!?!?!? PLEASE!! they will do lots of stuff to make him look good.
i'm not going to say if this is right or wrong, but trust me, Lin dan is not going to get in trouble in china. if anything, he'll be applauded by some for making Li Mao blow up on national tv. (hahah not something i condone)

[hcyong]

you need to remember this is china we're talking about. Lin Dan is a freaking superstar over there. you know who liu xiang is? he won 1 gold medal in 2004 for track and now he's set for life. all of a sudden he's in movies, he sings, he's filthy rich, his face is everywhere too!!
Lin dan is not quite the level as this guy but he's pretty close. do you really think that the chinese government will throw lin dan in jail for almost hitting someone with a racket?!?!?!? PLEASE!! they will do lots of stuff to make him look good.
i'm not going to say if this is right or wrong, but trust me, Lin dan is not going to get in trouble in china. if anything, he'll be applauded by some for making Li Mao blow up on national tv. (hahah not something i condone)

If LD were to get in trouble with the law, it would be Korean law. The whole incident occured in the Korean Open, remember?

[eaglehelang]

why would an improper conduct is less 'threatening' after the match than during the match? In TH's case, it was directed at an umpire and line judge!!!!

To me, it would be like "after hours", umpire & Line Judge had no jurisdiction after match is over (I think).
Sthing like during working hours, one cant do this & than, after working hours, boss has no control, it's personal time. Boss cant comment/complain about conduct during personal time, unless it adversely effects work performance.
Some act crazy & shout at the boss, it's a personal thing between them & boss, even if it's done in the office.

I'm not saying it's ok to do it, I dont like Taufik's outbursts either. And like Hcyong & me pointed out, Taufik didnt throw stuff at a direction where it can hit humans.

[cooler]

If LD were to get in trouble with the law, it would be Korean law. The whole incident occured in the Korean Open, remember?dont be so silly. Li Mao isn't a korean. Korean gov't would care less about LM's well being. LM is just a foreign consultant. I doubt LM is a citizen of South Korea. I think u r distracting the issue LOL

[super__gao]

If LD were to get in trouble with the law, it would be Korean law. The whole incident occured in the Korean Open, remember?

i know that. i'm just saying that, if he were fined or w/e in korea then went back to china, nothing would happen to him.

[xXazn_romeoXx]

i really don't understand what the big in depth look would be. obviously what he did was dangerous and wrong, but it resulted in a heated moment, one that could have been provoked. there had been numerous bad calls which were overturned by the umpire, and thus can only lead people to think that something must be wrong with the linesperson that's making the calls. furthermore, the umpire's decision should be final. no one should pressure the umpire to make or change calls. it would put the game into disrepute and throw away the authority figure and power of the umpire. i do believe Lin Dan should be fined, but being a first time basis, and in a unique match situation, a suspension of 1 SS and probation. but Li Mao should get fined and probation as well. the coach should never get off the bench and gesture to the umpire about calls, nor should they argue and yell at the opposing player.

and cancelling tournaments due to bias will result in HUGE lost of revenue/fans and does not fix the problem. if you cancell "all" of the tournaments that have this problem, then all we'd have is tournaments in Malaysia/Indonesia and Singapore, along with AE/Swiss...to only way to fix something like this is to actually have BWF qualified linesperson/umpires that are from all around the world, and they're trained officials with actual courses/classes that kinda thing. that way, you can dismiss officials if anything happens, and actually involve linesperson/umpires into these hearings, instead of nothing, since linespersons are volunteers. Banning Lin Dan for 5-6 SS is pure BS considering how much they earn per SS and the points they earn. you may as well take off 6 SS worth of ranking points and fine Lin Dan the amount of 6 SS winner's prize...and thus putting him out of OG contention and like from #1 in the world to #1000 or something...That's just ridiculous.

[ctjcad]

what do people think BWF should do?


on the LD throwing his racket, there isn't a clear by-law on this infraction(correct me if i'm wrong). Therefore, BWF has a large degree of freedom on this matter. However, the by-law is clear on

1. walkout
2. coaches interferring with Umpire

rest assure, no BWF rulings will be happy by both sides.
The right ruling will the one which pisses off 50% of the fans, and welcomed by the other 50%.
..well, i remember the HK Open 2006 incident where TH got upset at the call, yelled at the line-judge and then walked off the court:p. After that incident, i remember how infuriated i was at what he did (i know cooler most likely remembers:);)), esp. at how he treated the line-judge, who was a lady:(. I then posted what punishment TH should get although i forgot what type and/or how severe of a punishment he should get.
Now, looking back, my opinion on the type of punishment TH should get was partly based on emotion and the feeling of embarrassment (esp. as a person born from the same country Taufik is from).

But for this LD's incident, it's a bit hard for me. But based purely on LD's action and to be fair, i also wouldn't mind him getting a penalty, at least, the same severity as what TH got.

Anyway, like cooler wrote, hopefully & i'm sure BWF will have some sort of law or policy to determine the appropriate penalty(ies) for this type of incident. And not everyone will like the outcome, but BWF has to settle this matter. I guess we just have to wait and see what BWF'll decide for all the parties involved.
And let's just hope that this type of incident (or even more severe ones) won't happen, EVER, again in the future.:cool:

[eaglehelang]

do you really think that the chinese government will throw lin dan in jail for almost hitting someone with a racket?!?!?!? PLEASE!! they will do lots of stuff to make him look good.
i'm not going to say if this is right or wrong, but trust me, Lin dan is not going to get in trouble in china. if anything, he'll be applauded by some for making Li Mao blow up on national tv. (hahah not something i condone)

Yes I know, I've read the translations from China's press.
BUT it's BWF or displinary board who gives the punishment, not chinese government. So, it is not abt LD getting punished by China BA or LYB, etc.

If it's less, Taufik will make a fuss & maybe the Indonesia BA too cos Taufik's mis-conduct was less serious. Then there'll be another round of protests., more drama.....And if China goverment defends LD a lot, it would make them look bad as the host of 2008 OG.

[hcyong]

dont be so silly. Li Mao isn't a korean. Korean gov't would care less about LM's well being. LM is just a foreign consultant. I doubt LM is a citizen of South Korea. I think u r distracting the issue LOL

I was referring to LD. And I was referring to another discussion about LD getting in trouble with the law (state law, noot BWF law).

[super__gao]

Yes I know, I've read the translations from China's press.
BUT it's BWF or displinary board who gives the punishment, not chinese government. So, it is not abt LD getting punished by China BA or LYB, etc.

If it's less, Taufik will make a fuss & maybe the Indonesia BA too cos Taufik's mis-conduct was less serious. Then there'll be another round of protests., more drama.....And if China goverment defends LD a lot, it would make them look bad as the host of 2008 OG.

exactly, because the BWF are the ones who dishes out the punishment, it will be 10023482304920% guaranteed to be badminton related and have nothing to do with the law of any country, which is why i don't understand why people are talking about throwing lin dan in jail.

[hcyong]

i know that. i'm just saying that, if he were fined or w/e in korea then went back to china, nothing would happen to him.

Well I think we are diverging from the main discussion. Even if I think LD should be punished, it's a far cry from saying he should be charged in a court of law.

But anyway, if a crime is committed in Korea, whether by Koreans or foreigners, then the alleged criminal can be extradited (if there is such agreement between the countries involved) back to Korea for trial.

[cooler]

I was referring to LD. And I was referring to another discussion about LD getting in trouble with the law (state law, noot BWF law).ok, i dare korea would do that because this matter will be resolved much faster than BWF. China gov't call in korea's ambassador for a cup of tea, problem will be solved while their cups of tea will still be hot.:D

[jug8man]

Lin Dan... Ban him for life.

The image of him wielding a powerful deadly smashing weapon like the AT700 towards the fragile flashing bald head of Li Mao has sent shock waves thru out the world via media.

This image is now imprinted on all impressionable young minds of the many younger age Lin Dan fans!

Lin Dan should do community service to atone for this social damage he has caused....

Perhaps 60hours of community services doing badminton coaching for America, South Africa, Russia, and the Middle East.



:D

[hcyong]

ok, i dare korea would do that because this matter will be resolved much faster than BWF. China gov't call in korea's ambassador for a chat, problem solved.:D

It's not a question of dare or not dare. They simply don't care. It is just a minor infringement, like a harmless household dispute.

[xXazn_romeoXx]

ok, i dare korea would do that because this matter will be resolved much faster than BWF. China gov't call in korea's ambassador for a chat, problem solved while their cups of tea will still be hot.:D

i'm not sure they want to make an international incident over this sort of thing. plus it was Li Mao(chinese) against Lin Dan(chinese) LOL...

[super__gao]

Lin Dan... Ban him for life.

The image of him wielding a powerful deadly smashing weapon like the AT700 towards the fragile flashing bald head of Li Mao has sent shock waves thru out the world via media.

This image is now imprinted on all impressionable young minds of the many younger age Lin Dan fans!

Lin Dan should do community service to atone for this social damage he has caused....

Perhaps 60hours of community services doing badminton coaching for America, South Africa, Russia, and the Middle East.

:D

funny how you use the words, deadly, powerful, weapon when describing lin dan and fragile when talking about li mao.
and now people wonder why i'm irritated when people single out lin dan and nobody else!?!??!
words can be just as powerful as fists.

[cooler]

i'm not sure they want to make an international incident over this sort of thing. plus it was Li Mao(chinese) against Lin Dan(chinese) LOL...
that was my point;)

[super__gao]

It's not a question of dare or not dare. They simply don't care. It is just a minor infringement, like a harmless household dispute.

then why are you making such a big deal outta it? :p

[eaglehelang]

...............I then posted what punishment TH should get although i forgot how severe of a punishment he should get.
Now, looking back, my opinion on the type of punishment TH should get was partly based on emotion and the feeling of embarrassment (esp. as a person born from the same country Taufik is from).

But for this LD's incident, it's a bit hard for me. But based purely on LD's action and to be fair, i also wouldn't mind him getting a penalty, at least, the same severity as TH got.

And let's just hope that this type of incident (or even more severe ones) won't happen, ever, again in the future.:cool:

Yup, after Huang mentioned the incident, I 'flew' over to HK 2006 thread to read what happened, he he. At the time, there were BCers who suggested Taufik be sanctioned from 3 tournaments, some for remainder of 2006. Many were angry at Taufik unprofessionalism.

Now, 2 years later, a 'new record' have been made, hopefully no more "new records" of such nature in future. And yes, I agree, the severity of punishment/sanction should be at least the same as Taufik's.

[jug8man]

funny how you use the words, deadly, powerful, weapon when describing lin dan and fragile when talking about li mao.
and now people wonder why i'm irritated when people single out lin dan and nobody else!?!??!
words can be just as powerful as fists.

I'm pleased to see that my 'Wilfredlgf humour' works just as well as the original.

Clap clap clap

[xXazn_romeoXx]

well all i can say is that i'm glad Lin Dan at least calmed down and finished the match. a walkout/walkover is just as bad as yelling at an umpire enough to earn a yellow card ;)

[cooler]

then why are you making such a big deal outta it? :p
using hcyong's definition, he was just distracting:D

[hcyong]

then why are you making such a big deal outta it? :p

Sorry if I seem to make a big deal out of it. I don't think it's a big deal. Merely trying to point out a technicality.

[hcyong]

I'm pleased to see that my 'Wilfredlgf humour' works just as well as the original.

Clap clap clap

Funny that someone actually missed your sarcasm.

[hcyong]

using hcyong's definition, he was just distracting:D

Which point I made was distracting?

[Jasonvan]

　　“我能理解林丹。”捷克籍羽毛球裁判莫米亚说。虽然自己在27日的韩国羽毛球超级赛男单决赛中的错判， 引发了林丹与中国籍的韩国羽毛球队教练李矛的冲突，但当值主裁判莫米亚日前通过电话告诉记者，他并未生林丹 的气。
　　李矛先说话 林丹生气了
　　时根据你的判断，球是否落在了界内？
　　莫米亚（以下简称莫）：这个球打在了林丹身后，从我这个角度无法判断球是否出了边线。当时边裁很肯定地 示意我球在界内，电视裁判也给了我同样的提示。我因此坚持认定球在界内。但后来的电视录像证明，当时的判罚 是错误的。
　　记：当时场上发生了什么？
　　莫：当时林丹向我走过来，示意我，刚才的球出界了。李矛和林丹离得很近，他好像先对林丹说了什么，然后 林丹非常生气，二人争执起来。遗憾的是，我不懂中文，不知道他们在说什么。
　　能理解林丹 出牌为稳定
　　记：林丹在场上摔拍子，你当时对他的行为很愤怒吧？
　　莫：我能理解林丹。决赛的局面僵持不下，任何运动员都会紧张，情绪一时失控是可以理解的。换作别的运动 员的话，可能会有人比林丹更生气吧。
　　记：可你给林丹出示了黄牌。
　　莫：由于事发突然，我必须让双方冷静下来。毕竟，在场上摔拍子是不应该的。当时我完全可以出示红牌，这 样李铉一可以直接得分，拿下这局比赛，但我不想这样。这局比赛很精彩，胜负应该由运动员在场上决定，而不是 我的判罚。这次判罚后，林丹在场上完全冷静下来了。尽管输掉了比赛，他还是走过来和我、李铉一很友好地握了 手。
　　边裁屡出错 似偏韩国队
　　记：我注意到，在林丹和李铉一的决赛时，你曾多次推翻了边裁判罚，为什么呢？
　　莫：边裁在判断上明显出现了不该有的失误，我必须不断纠正边裁的判罚，这让我很恼火。这次韩国超级赛， 边裁的判罚出现了很多问题。可能是在主场的原因吧，边裁（全部来自韩国）的判罚似乎有些偏向主 队。
　　记：你觉得边裁是故意的吗？
　　莫：也不能这么说。人人都会犯错，可能是因为他们（边裁）太年轻，也可能是因为他们当时没 有留神。


Even the umpire said he could understand why LD did what he did and in the article he actually said he is not upset at LD throwing the racket and thinks there could be others that might do much worse under the circumstances... So if BWF also takes what the umpire will report under it's consideration, I would think maybe a fine and maybe a one tournment penalty(50/50)

[azabaz_ipoh]

and cancelling tournaments due to bias will result in HUGE lost of revenue/fans and does not fix the problem. if you cancell "all" of the tournaments that have this problem, then all we'd have is tournaments in Malaysia/Indonesia and Singapore, along with AE/Swiss...to only way to fix something like this is to actually have BWF qualified linesperson/umpires that are from all around the world, and they're trained officials with actual courses/classes that kinda thing. that way, you can dismiss officials if anything happens, and actually involve linesperson/umpires into these hearings, instead of nothing, since linespersons are volunteers.


cancelling one tournament would hopefully deter the others from repeating the same thing. plus, in place of korean open, the SS can be conducted elsewhere for just one year. maybe the USA. as a two pronged method of reprimand for korea and promotion for the US. with good planning we can reduce the loss of revenue and at the same time promote badminton to a wider audience. maybe even a show like the belgium kids did in one of the youtube videos to attract youngsters. :D

a agree that qualified umpires and linesperson be used. lets hire them like a real job. full time. travels with the tournaments. if there's prove that they are bias, fire them. :)


funny how you use the words, deadly, powerful, weapon when describing lin dan and fragile when talking about li mao.
and now people wonder why i'm irritated when people single out lin dan and nobody else!?!??!
words can be just as powerful as fists.

he was joking i think super gao. thus the use of the smiley. just a question, are you justifying LD actions because other people are attacking him or do you think that there's nothing wrong at all with LD's actions? dont mention LM or linesperson. just LD's actions in question here. what would your answer be? :confused:

[taufik-ist]

well all i can say is that i'm glad Lin Dan at least calmed down and finished the match. a walkout/walkover is just as bad as yelling at an umpire enough to earn a yellow card ;)

sometimes a walkout/over is better :D what lindan did is 'horrible' :eek:...

in my opinion:
if a player feels being cheated and the umpire doesn't response his/her objection/protest many times.. he/she'd better walkout/over than doing something 'endangers' other people :D

[xXazn_romeoXx]

sometimes a walkout/over is better :D what lindan did is 'horrible' :eek:...

in my opinion:
if a player feels being cheated and the umpire doesn't response his/her objection/protest many times.. he/she'd better walkout/over than doing something 'endangers' other people :D

ya but then face the consequences lol. it's taufik's job to play. if he doesn't like it, hit it closer to inside than outside ;)...hit the opponent in the face and go, "was that in? the light blinded me" ;)...by walking out, you're not giving the fans their due, and destroying the credibility of the linespersons, whether it was justified as right or not. IMO ;)

[xXazn_romeoXx]

cancelling one tournament would hopefully deter the others from repeating the same thing. plus, in place of korean open, the SS can be conducted elsewhere for just one year. maybe the USA. as a two pronged method of reprimand for korea and promotion for the US. with good planning we can reduce the loss of revenue and at the same time promote badminton to a wider audience. maybe even a show like the belgium kids did in one of the youtube videos to attract youngsters. :D

a agree that qualified umpires and linesperson be used. lets hire them like a real job. full time. travels with the tournaments. if there's prove that they are bias, fire them. :)



he was joking i think super gao. thus the use of the smiley. just a question, are you justifying LD actions because other people are attacking him or do you think that there's nothing wrong at all with LD's actions? dont mention LM or linesperson. just LD's actions in question here. what would your answer be? :confused:

not to be racist, but i don't think US has enough coverage of Badminton enough to consider US a SS type of tournament. they still think Badminton is what Chinese people play or what they do in bbq backyards >_>..but i do concur on your point.

[kankan]

what's the credibility of source? we all assume that the interview is real.


　　“我能理解林丹。”捷克籍羽毛球裁判莫米亚说。虽然自己在27日的韩国羽毛球超级赛男单决赛中的错判, 引发了林丹与中国籍的韩国羽毛球队教练李矛的冲突,但当值主裁判莫米亚日前通过电话告诉记者,他并未生林丹 的气。
　　李矛先说话 林丹生气了
　　时根据你的判断,球是否落在了界内?
　　莫米亚(以下简称莫):这个球打在了林丹身后,从我这个角度无法判断球是否出了边线。当时边裁很肯定地 示意我球在界内,电视裁判也给了我同样的提示。我因此坚持认定球在界内。但后来的电视录像证明,当时的判罚 是错误的。
　　记:当时场上发生了什么?
　　莫:当时林丹向我走过来,示意我,刚才的球出界了。李矛和林丹离得很近,他好像先对林丹说了什么,然后 林丹非常生气,二人争执起来。遗憾的是,我不懂中文,不知道他们在说什么。
　　能理解林丹 出牌为稳定
　　记:林丹在场上摔拍子,你当时对他的行为很愤怒吧?
　　莫:我能理解林丹。决赛的局面僵持不下,任何运动员都会紧张,情绪一时失控是可以理解的。换作别的运动 员的话,可能会有人比林丹更生气吧。
　　记:可你给林丹出示了黄牌。
　　莫:由于事发突然,我必须让双方冷静下来。毕竟,在场上摔拍子是不应该的。当时我完全可以出示红牌,这 样李铉一可以直接得分,拿下这局比赛,但我不想这样。这局比赛很精彩,胜负应该由运动员在场上决定,而不是 我的判罚。这次判罚后,林丹在场上完全冷静下来了。尽管输掉了比赛,他还是走过来和我、李铉一很友好地握了 手。
　　边裁屡出错 似偏韩国队
　　记:我注意到,在林丹和李铉一的决赛时,你曾多次推翻了边裁判罚,为什么呢?
　　莫:边裁在判断上明显出现了不该有的失误,我必须不断纠正边裁的判罚,这让我很恼火。这次韩国超级赛, 边裁的判罚出现了很多问题。可能是在主场的原因吧,边裁(全部来自韩国)的判罚似乎有些偏向主 队。
　　记:你觉得边裁是故意的吗?
　　莫:也不能这么说。人人都会犯错,可能是因为他们(边裁)太年轻,也可能是因为他们当时没 有留神。


Even the umpire said he could understand why LD did what he did and in the article he actually said he is not upset at LD throwing the racket and thinks there could be others that might do much worse under the circumstances... So if BWF also takes what the umpire will report under it's consideration, I would think maybe a fine and maybe a one tournment penalty(50/50)

[super__gao]

cancelling one tournament would hopefully deter the others from repeating the same thing. plus, in place of korean open, the SS can be conducted elsewhere for just one year. maybe the USA. as a two pronged method of reprimand for korea and promotion for the US. with good planning we can reduce the loss of revenue and at the same time promote badminton to a wider audience. maybe even a show like the belgium kids did in one of the youtube videos to attract youngsters. :D

a agree that qualified umpires and linesperson be used. lets hire them like a real job. full time. travels with the tournaments. if there's prove that they are bias, fire them. :)



he was joking i think super gao. thus the use of the smiley. just a question, are you justifying LD actions because other people are attacking him or do you think that there's nothing wrong at all with LD's actions? dont mention LM or linesperson. just LD's actions in question here. what would your answer be? :confused:

lin dan is totally wrong. but you just cannot factor li mao outta the equation. it's like dividing by 0, you just can't do it.

anyways, i'm actually going to go play some badminton!! HAHAHA kinda ironic how people think i hate it.

[Jasonvan]

http://www.bbesports.com/news/0801/31a.htm

got it from here, just reading all the various badminton news on there...

[azabaz_ipoh]

lin dan is totally wrong. but you just cannot factor li mao outta the equation. it's like dividing by 0, you just can't do it.

anyways, i'm actually going to go play some badminton!! HAHAHA kinda ironic how people think i hate it.

i never thought you hated badminton. only people who is passionate about one thing can argue passionately about it. i believe everybody here loves badminton. if not they would not be here.

i am glad you agree that LD's actions (not LD the human being as a whole) is wrong. just his actions. he might have been provoked and reacted like a human. but his actions are wrong. no two way about that. i was a bit disappointed that there are quite a number of people who thinks that LD should not get penalized at all. even if some people think that he received an unfair treatment and that resulted in his violent outburst, they could have voted with a small fine at the very least to show that they still dont agree fully with his violent conduct. voting that he should not get penalized at all seems to say that it is ok to resort to violence whenever you feel that you have been wronged. i feel sad. :(

[abedeng]

No doubt what Lin Dan did was unacceptable. Full stop. Should he be harshly punished?

Now, if it happens that he did this without provocation, I would be the first to agree.

But there were several factors:-

1. Many wrong / questionable line calls, eventually corrected by umpire bar one. This provided the fuel supply.
2. KOR Coaching staff intervention. That provided the spark and fire.

What I would rather see Lin Dan do is to formally apologize to the fans, the organizers and the BWF for his behaviour, instead of asking fans to understand why he lost his cool. He should also acknowledge that he still needs to have his temper under control (I think he has partially done that).

Asking him to apologize to Li Mao is perhaps too much, given the circumstances. Besides, Li Mao is not above blame himself.

In this instance, any punishment will have to consider the circumstances upon which the incident happened, otherwise the judgement will not be fair to Lin Dan. If anything, all those who "contributed" to the incident should be called in, line judges and all. BWF has videos of the whole match, itcould easily call in the respective line judges in addition to reports given by the umpire and tournament referee.

[Birdwood]

sometimes a walkout/over is better :D what lindan did is 'horrible' :eek:...

in my opinion:
if a player feels being cheated and the umpire doesn't response his/her objection/protest many times.. he/she'd better walkout/over than doing something 'endangers' other people :D

Will he be fined for walkout?

[kankan]

i think should get penalty, in terms of quantity is not easy to decide.

for me the principle is that the penalty should be fair to Lin Dan as well other players like Taufik. for me as long as Lin Dan is getting 3 to 10 times of what Taufik got for HKO2006, it would be a fair penalty.

[Jasonvan]

No doubt what Lin Dan did was unacceptable. Full stop. Should he be harshly punished?

Now, if it happens that he did this without provocation, I would be the first to agree.

But there were several factors:-

1. Many wrong / questionable line calls, eventually corrected by umpire bar one. This provided the fuel supply.
2. KOR Coaching staff intervention. That provided the spark and fire.

What I would rather see Lin Dan do is to formally apologize to the fans, the organizers and the BWF for his behaviour, instead of asking fans to understand why he lost his cool. He should also acknowledge that he still needs to have his temper under control (I think he has partially done that).

Asking him to apologize to Li Mao is perhaps too much, given the circumstances. Besides, Li Mao is not above blame himself.

In this instance, any punishment will have to consider the circumstances upon which the incident happened, otherwise the judgement will not be fair to Lin Dan. If anything, all those who "contributed" to the incident should be called in, line judges and all. BWF has videos of the whole match, itcould easily call in the respective line judges in addition to reports given by the umpire and tournament referee.

I agree that what he did was wrong but as you said, certain circumstances contributed to this incident so the punishment should take that into account. I personally voted large fine for LD.

[Birdwood]

i think should get penalty, in terms of quantity is not easy to decide.

for me the principle is that the penalty should be fair to Lin Dan as well other players like Taufik. for me as long as Lin Dan is getting 3 to 10 times of what Taufik got for HKO2006, it would be a fair penalty.

Unless I'm wrong, TH did not get any fine, except not receive ranking points and any prize money for walking out MSQF HO 06.

[X Ball]

Examining the threads, the overall consensus is that LD is wrong in throwing the racket and also threatening Li Mao with racket. It smacks of an out-of-control LD.

I think if an apology is not forthcoming, then it is a blatant disregard for rules and laws of civility. I propose a huge fine and suspension so that his actions will not be repeated with other players in the future.

[ctjcad]

...
What I would rather see Lin Dan do is to formally apologize to the fans, the organizers and the BWF for his behaviour, instead of asking fans to understand why he lost his cool. He should also acknowledge that he still needs to have his temper under control (I think he has partially done that).

Asking him to apologize to Li Mao is perhaps too much, given the circumstances. Besides, Li Mao is not above blame himself.
...
..yeah, if i remember, that was one of my request for TH's walk-out during the 2006 HKO. LD apologizing to LM is iffy also because both of them were head-strong and almost went to blows.:p..
So, c'mon LD, we'll be waiting for your apology! That's all we're asking!:cool:

[Jessica]

My vote is for large and fine suspension.

[Temasek Green]

...:p..
So, c'mon LD, we'll be waiting for your apology! That's all we're asking!:cool:
Yup apology is graceful act.The younger one should start first as a respect to the older.

[bhtan]

my view...

If Lindan were act like this againt the umpire or the line judges, then i would call for a heavy punishment.

But not in this case . I view Li Mao as the third party, interfering in a very important championship match , at a very important game , at a very critical time.

Non others except Lindan have everything to lose by Li Mao's action.

[koowakchai]

Hmmm....why badminton doesn't has the hawk-eye system like in tennis? It might solve some of the bad line calls. :D:D

In addition, coaches should not be allow to sit near to the players. They will keep shouting instructions only. Badminton players should play like tennis players. Play on your own. Think on your own. Come up with your own startegy.
Coaches should allow to advice only during intervals.
:D:D

Any comments?
;):D:p



on the LD throwing his racket, there isn't a clear by-law on this infraction(correct me if i'm wrong). Therefore, BWF has a large degree of freedom on this matter. However, the by-law is clear on

1. walkout
2. coaches interferring with Umpire

[huangkwokhau]

It is funny to see to see some members used to say other members" Double standards" now I can see some of them making double standard while defending LD badly.....

You can not say that walking out peacefully and throwing racket is same thing....I guess some have to use " Logic" while defending LD blindly....

[huangkwokhau]

Yup, after Huang mentioned the incident, I 'flew' over to HK 2006 thread to read what happened, he he. At the time, there were BCers who suggested Taufik be sanctioned from 3 tournaments, some for remainder of 2006. Many were angry at Taufik unprofessionalism.

Now, 2 years later, a 'new record' have been made, hopefully no more "new records" of such nature in future. And yes, I agree, the severity of punishment/sanction should be at least the same as Taufik's.
Thats why it is so comfortable for some members here said that some are bias toward LD...but they have short memory all of sudden when they celebrated TH's punishment...and now they want fairness???I have to say that LD's fans are more bias now while stubbornly ignoring the facts and blaming TH heavily 2 yrs ago when no violent has involved......What a double standard when it comes to defend his player!!!

[azabaz_ipoh]

No doubt what Lin Dan did was unacceptable. Full stop. Should he be harshly punished?

Now, if it happens that he did this without provocation, I would be the first to agree.

But there were several factors:-

1. Many wrong / questionable line calls, eventually corrected by umpire bar one. This provided the fuel supply.
2. KOR Coaching staff intervention. That provided the spark and fire.

nothing like this happens without provocation. some provocation in sports are intentional and other happens in the heat of the moment. provocation aside, violent actions are never ever the right solution and this is the one LD should be penalized for. but that is just my opinion.


What I would rather see Lin Dan do is to formally apologize to the fans, the organizers and the BWF for his behaviour, instead of asking fans to understand why he lost his cool. He should also acknowledge that he still needs to have his temper under control (I think he has partially done that).

agree fully. he has yet to apologize to his fans. this action seems to show that he is not feeling any remorse at all to what he did to the image of badminton in general. to the fans specifically. i hope he apologize too. :)


Asking him to apologize to Li Mao is perhaps too much, given the circumstances. Besides, Li Mao is not above blame himself.

i agree with this one too. we dont know what was it that Li mao said. so that is between them. if LD deems it fit to never apologize to li mao then so be it. that is his prerogative. but he has a responsibility as a well known and well loved professional sportman to at least ask for forgiveness for his actions to his fans and to all badminton community.


In this instance, any punishment will have to consider the circumstances upon which the incident happened, otherwise the judgement will not be fair to Lin Dan. If anything, all those who "contributed" to the incident should be called in, line judges and all. BWF has videos of the whole match, itcould easily call in the respective line judges in addition to reports given by the umpire and tournament referee.

yes the punishment should be severe for LD's violent actions and the other parties should be punished too for their actions. my suggestion in my previous post stands. :)

[skunklover]

i think a heavy fine will do if necessary...
it will prevent others from wanting to do something like this, given the circumstances, i think the BWF should levy a fine of some value they deem appropritate

[Han]

It is funny to see to see some members used to say other members" Double standards" now I can see some of them making double standard while defending LD badly.....

You can not say that walking out peacefully and throwing racket is same thing....I guess some have to use " Logic" while defending LD blindly....

When it comes to our idol, logic no longer prevail, that's very true. Take Taufik for example, we all know he's a bad boy but we still admire him and support him so the same can be said about Lin Dan fan. Heck, even if Lee Chong Wei beat out Yap Kim Hock one day, I will still say Malaysia Boleh :D
Lin dan is at fault, no doubt about that but I don't want to be the one to convince his fan, is a waste of time and effort.

[eaglehelang]

exactly, because the BWF are the ones who dishes out the punishment, it will be 10023482304920% guaranteed to be badminton related and have nothing to do with the law of any country, which is why i don't understand why people are talking about throwing lin dan in jail.

Because it Koreans really want to, they can charge LD in criminal court?

For those who were asking, in Malaysia's law, if someone throws a sharp object at someone else, can be charged with intent to kill, even if the object didnt hit anyone. Happened bf a couple of yrs back to my colleagues. The sharp object was a kitchen knife, the knife missed but pierced thru a wooden board ard 2 inches thick. Similar scenario, the 'taunter' called the attacker names. The attacker flung his knife across the room. If 'taunter' didnt dunk in time, it would have been serious injuries or we had to attend his funeral.

As far as I recall, the attacker had to go to court, pay for all damages to the premises, got immediate sacking with no pay. Dunno whether he ended up in jail, the case dragged very long. 'Taunter' got a serious reprimand & demotion cos all the above happened at workplace.

That's 'sharp object'. Not sure abt 'blunt object'



Unless I'm wrong, TH did not get any fine, except not receive ranking points and any prize money for walking out MSQF HO 06.

Yup, that's what the Displinary Board said, I couldnt find any news piece on the fine & suspension. Maybe Huang, oh Huang, or taufik-ist, was it printed in any newspaper or sthing?



Thats why it is so comfortable for some members here said that some are bias toward LD...but they have short memory all of sudden when they celebrated TH's punishment...and now they want fairness???I have to say that LD's fans are more bias now while stubbornly ignoring the facts and blaming TH heavily 2 yrs ago when no violent has involved......What a double standard when it comes to defend his player!!!

That's why I mentioned Taufik's incident mah..... so that they are reminded, since I'm not Indonesian, or from China, or Taufik fan or LD fan...:D
Taufik-ist was so kind too, apologize on behalf of his hero..


When it comes to our idol, logic no longer prevail, that's very true. ............... Heck, even if Lee Chong Wei beat out Yap Kim Hock one day, I will still say Malaysia Boleh :D
.
Not the Msian govern or media or the general Msia population :), they'll "slaughter" LCW right away.
Not me, if LCW did that, I'll be angry too, bring shame to Msia .

[ctjcad]

Yup, that's what the Displinary Board said, I couldnt find any news piece on the fine & suspension. Maybe Huang, oh Huang, or taufik-ist, was it printed in any newspaper or sthing?
..courtesy of BWF's website;):
http://www.internationalbadminton.org/news1.asp?pageid={52B9E7F5-506F-4A60-956E-8D448492E98D}&year=2006&month=9

http://www.internationalbadminton.org/news1.asp?pageid={6A60FC13-246D-44E9-BA5B-83CAEA05A622}&year=2006&month=9

[eaglehelang]

..courtesy of BWF's website;):
http://www.internationalbadminton.org/news1.asp?pageid={52B9E7F5-506F-4A60-956E-8D448492E98D}&year=2006&month=9

http://www.internationalbadminton.org/news1.asp?pageid={6A60FC13-246D-44E9-BA5B-83CAEA05A622}&year=2006&month=9

Thanks Ctjcad, it's basically the same as the Youtube version.
Some of the other BCers mentioned a fine & suspension for 1 SS. Was that for some other incident?

[drifit]

Not the Msian govern or media or the general Msia population :), they'll "slaughter" LCW right away.
Not me, if LCW did that, I'll be angry too, bring shame to Msia .

one can tolerate 1 mis-judgment......
too many (3-6times) mis-judgment, the player can no longer tolerate and the adrenalin starts pumping in too much...... hence, the fire clouded the eyes
so sad to hear/see players losing temper and go havoc.....

[azabaz_ipoh]

That's why I mentioned Taufik's incident mah..... so that they are reminded, since I'm not Indonesian, or from China, or Taufik fan or LD fan...:D
Taufik-ist was so kind too, apologize on behalf of his hero..

Not the Msian govern or media or the general Msia population :), they'll "slaughter" LCW right away.
Not me, if LCW did that, I'll be angry too, bring shame to Msia .

some fans does not excuse their favourite player's bad behaviour but still respect their skill and talent. taufik-ist is a good example. i agree with you that media will bash LCW if he did what LD did. no one can justify violent misconduct. i would be angry with LCW too. most probably will apologize for his behaviour if it came to that. will surely demand LCW to apologize to the fans too. :o i will ask for stiff punishment for LCW or any malaysian player if they ever did that.

[V3i HoN6]

　　“我能理解林丹。”捷克籍羽毛球裁判莫米亚说。虽然自己在27日的韩国羽毛球超级赛男单决赛中的错判， 引发了林丹与中国籍的韩国羽毛球队教练李矛的冲突，但当值主裁判莫米亚日前通过电话告诉记者，他并未生林丹 的气。
.........................................
.........................................
.........................................
Even the umpire said he could understand why LD did what he did and in the article he actually said he is not upset at LD throwing the racket and thinks there could be others that might do much worse under the circumstances... So if BWF also takes what the umpire will report under it's consideration, I would think maybe a fine and maybe a one tournment penalty(50/50)
The guy also said he didn't think all the "patriotic" bad calls in Korea was intended.
Maybe they were too young? and maybe sight problem, thus see wrongly. (<-- this parts made me :D because i think it sort of contradicts.)
But don't mind me and he's the umpire, if that's what he said then his account should put into the considerations of the decision.


Thats why it is so comfortable for some members here said that some are bias toward LD...but they have short memory all of sudden when they celebrated TH's punishment...and now they want fairness???I have to say that LD's fans are more bias now while stubbornly ignoring the facts and blaming TH heavily 2 yrs ago when no violent has involved......What a double standard when it comes to defend his player!!!
I know who's being bias. :p(raise my hand)
Anyway to give another example, on the part of whether LM should take part into line call dispute and talking to LD during the game. I can think of many incidents of this. The closest i remember being PJB in French Open and he's off his bench into the court and even talking to opponent players too although in a milder tone.
Here, Im not saying because PJB did, and LM should be too. Rule is the rule. I was merely pointing out when PJB or perhaps LYB did that, our "unbias" friend conveniently forget about the rules but come to this case, it all
seems so wrong and being ultimately used to blame him for being at fault first.
And not to forget LM a Chinese too, as much as they think we are biased against Chinese players and coaches.
Whenever a malaysian fans critics of LD or LYB, we all Malaysian are bias.
Whenever a fans from INA, USA, DEN, SIN or whoever said the same things, they are quietly ignore then later being included as bias comments from Malaysian.
The same thing in the Chinese forum when a chinese himself share the same view, now can't be blame for bias as they are not Malaysian. So they call them names like traitor, selling out their country.

[azabaz_ipoh]

something light and thought provoking :D :

http://www.arcamax.com/newspics/4/466/46667.gif (http://www.arcamax.com/newspics/4/466/46667.gif)

coutesy of http://www.arcamax.com/familycircus

[V3i HoN6]

Will he be fined for walkout?
Who cares if he being fined.
He will wins all the heart and praises.

To me, walk out is better than to keep playing the game.
Shake hand, walk out calmly as a form of protest is probably the best thing to do as it will get WBF to really look into this linejudge matters, while continue playing like LCW only to make it as an encouragement for the rest to follow suit.
But I could be wrong on this.

[pjswift]

what's the credibility of source? we all assume that the interview is real.
This source is questionable. If the umpire is so understanding, why would he give LD a yellow card? Perhaps he meant that had he been any other player, he would have flashed the red card? So maybe he gave LD a discount? Special privilege for a WR1...

[Badmintan]

We all remember the bizarre incident of Zinedine Zidane heatbutting Marco Materrazzi in the previous world cup.

There is a parallel here. I guess from the video we can see Li Mao 'baiting' Lin Dan a bit by saying something just like Materrazzi did to Zidane.

Obviously as a professional, Lin Dan overeacted. But the thing was, the game was on the line and even a pro like him, means not winning the prize money. Not only that, Lin Dan was probably thinking the lines ppl are in Korea hence ruling in favor of the local player, Hyun Il.

The thing was Zidane was hugely successful and about to retire, whereas Lin Dan is still in his prime. Therefore the parallel ends here. The public will be less forgiving of Lin Dan's outburst. Frankly speaking, Lin Dan can shout back at Li Mao...but the waving of the racquet in Li Mao's direction looks like an attempted assault. I think if he does that again..he should be banned from at least one SuperSeries game. But I doubt the Badminton federation would want to lose their best player.

[robin7]

Suspension for 2 SS (especially AE and Swiss) and fine of USD10k but still eligible for OG of course.

[ctjcad]

Thanks Ctjcad, it's basically the same as the Youtube version.
Some of the other BCers mentioned a fine & suspension for 1 SS. Was that for some other incident?
..that report is the official report/final decision regarding BWF's investigation in his 2006 HK Open walk-out incident case. I'm not aware of the latter part being "official", esp. abt him being suspended for 1 SS.:cool:

*Notice in the article this last statement:
"Taufik was very apologetic and understands that he cannot do this again. The punishment will definitely be more severe if he violates the players' Code of Conduct again," said Paisan....it should be interesting to see if LinDan would offer some kind of an apology in this incident, if and when BWF's investigation ends.:cool:

[X Ball]

We all remember the bizarre incident of Zinedine Zidane heatbutting Marco Materrazzi in the previous world cup.

There is a parallel here. I guess from the video we can see Li Mao 'baiting' Lin Dan a bit by saying something just like Materrazzi did to Zidane.

Obviously as a professional, Lin Dan overeacted. But the thing was, the game was on the line and even a pro like him, means not winning the prize money. Not only that, Lin Dan was probably thinking the lines ppl are in Korea hence ruling in favor of the local player, Hyun Il.

The thing was Zidane was hugely successful and about to retire, whereas Lin Dan is still in his prime. Therefore the parallel ends here. The public will be less forgiving of Lin Dan's outburst. Frankly speaking, Lin Dan can shout back at Li Mao...but the waving of the racquet in Li Mao's direction looks like an attempted assault. I think if he does that again..he should be banned from at least one SuperSeries game. But I doubt the Badminton federation would want to lose their best player.

I think the BWF will take action coz they cannot afford to have the sport in disrespute with strong sponsors coming in and with the sport in the Olympics. A sport where players can act like spoiled brats - throwing tantrums/threats, shouting, and throwing rackets - is not going to do down well with BWF, if action is not taken.

If action was taken, I think it will be a substantial one. As Hauge has pointed out, TH got 1 suspension for a walkout (without fighting), then I think LD should get 3 or more suspensions for 'fighting' during a tournament. He actually wanted to fight Li Mao and if it weren't a person or two holding him back, that racket might have ended up on Li Mao's head (imagine the consequence of that act, in which it would be a criminal assault).

And if that had happened, Li Mao will be able to sue him for injuries (again, imagine how much that would cost). It could be career-ending for LD. I can say he should thank his lucky star none of the above happened. He may be stubborn in his apologies but I think if LI Mao put a complain in for LD's aggression, LD will be a 'goner'. If I were him, I better think fast on how to apologise to Li Mao before it is too late.

[jug8man]

We all remember the bizarre incident of Zinedine Zidane heatbutting Marco Materrazzi in the previous world cup.

There is a parallel here. I guess from the video we can see Li Mao 'baiting' Lin Dan a bit by saying something just like Materrazzi did to Zidane.

Obviously as a professional, Lin Dan overeacted. But the thing was, the game was on the line and even a pro like him, means not winning the prize money. Not only that, Lin Dan was probably thinking the lines ppl are in Korea hence ruling in favor of the local player, Hyun Il.

The thing was Zidane was hugely successful and about to retire, whereas Lin Dan is still in his prime. Therefore the parallel ends here. The public will be less forgiving of Lin Dan's outburst. Frankly speaking, Lin Dan can shout back at Li Mao...but the waving of the racquet in Li Mao's direction looks like an attempted assault. I think if he does that again..he should be banned from at least one SuperSeries game. But I doubt the Badminton federation would want to lose their best player.


FIFA investigation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinedine_Zidane
In light of Zidane's statements, FIFA opened disciplinary proceedings to investigate the incident.[34] FIFA also affirmed the legality of Elizondo's decision to send Zidane off, rejecting claims that Cantalejo had illegally relied on video transmission to make a decision about handling Zidane's misconduct.[35] On the grounds that both players had stressed that Materazzi's comments, while defamatory, were not of a racist nature, FIFA issued a CHF5,000 fine and a two-match ban against Materazzi, while Zidane received a three-match ban and a CHF7,500 fine. Since Zidane had already retired, he voluntarily served three days of community service on FIFA's behalf as a substitute for the match ban.[36]


Let there be more parallels.

3 SS tournaments and CHF7500 fine sounds fitting!

Something for Li Mao as well perhaps?

[azabaz_ipoh]

We all remember the bizarre incident of Zinedine Zidane heatbutting Marco Materrazzi in the previous world cup.

There is a parallel here. I guess from the video we can see Li Mao 'baiting' Lin Dan a bit by saying something just like Materrazzi did to Zidane.

Obviously as a professional, Lin Dan overeacted. But the thing was, the game was on the line and even a pro like him, means not winning the prize money. Not only that, Lin Dan was probably thinking the lines ppl are in Korea hence ruling in favor of the local player, Hyun Il.

The thing was Zidane was hugely successful and about to retire, whereas Lin Dan is still in his prime. Therefore the parallel ends here. The public will be less forgiving of Lin Dan's outburst. Frankly speaking, Lin Dan can shout back at Li Mao...but the waving of the racquet in Li Mao's direction looks like an attempted assault. I think if he does that again..he should be banned from at least one SuperSeries game. But I doubt the Badminton federation would want to lose their best player.

how is that where the parallel ends? i still think it is very parallel. both zidane and LD are the top players in their respective field. Both were baited. Both reacted violently. and if zidane, who was a professional and were given a red card and was immediately told to leave the field and later fined by the FIFA (if he did not retire he will surely be banned for more than one match after the world cup fiasco in addition to all the other punishment), can accept the responsibility of his actions and apologize to his fans, why cant LD receive punishment like zidane and apologize to his fans too? whether you are about to retire or in your prime, you are a public figure and role models to the youngsters who adore you. violence is never the answer and should never go unpunished.

i agree that it looks like an attempted assault but i think he should be immediately penalized to set an example for all players. and if the BWF reduce the severity of the punishment because he is the top player, then shame on BWF for not putting emphasis on the gross misconduct of a representative of this sport.

[twobeer]

I voted for 1ss suspension, for misconduct. But I also think Li Mao should be penalized. Maybe with a big fine, for misconduct! If coaches should be allowed close to the court they should act proffesional and try to set an example for players to follow. If coaches are not balanced, how can we then expect the players they are coaching, to behave well!!! Looking at the videos, it seems to me that Li Mao shouted, agressively and was addressing LD. Coaches, should stick to coaching their players, and not interfer in judging etc. Maybe the best thing would be to only allow coaching during the breaks!

/Twobeer

[azabaz_ipoh]

FIFA investigation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinedine_Zidane
In light of Zidane's statements, FIFA opened disciplinary proceedings to investigate the incident.[34] FIFA also affirmed the legality of Elizondo's decision to send Zidane off, rejecting claims that Cantalejo had illegally relied on video transmission to make a decision about handling Zidane's misconduct.[35] On the grounds that both players had stressed that Materazzi's comments, while defamatory, were not of a racist nature, FIFA issued a CHF5,000 fine and a two-match ban against Materazzi, while Zidane received a three-match ban and a CHF7,500 fine. Since Zidane had already retired, he voluntarily served three days of community service on FIFA's behalf as a substitute for the match ban.[36]


Let there be more parallels.

3 SS tournaments and CHF7500 fine sounds fitting!

Something for Li Mao as well perhaps?

yes, this is an example of a man who was being responsible for his actions. zidane realized that what he did was wrong. does LD feel the same? and yes, both parties should be penalized. i think everybody agrees with that.

[Louisa]

Li Mao should be penalized, too...We were taught to bear consequences of our act....so, both LD n LM should be penalized, and the linesman, too!!!!

[azabaz_ipoh]

maybe kwun could do another poll on what penalty should be given to LM and the korea open organizers. :D

[ctjcad]

..do you think kwun/BC is like BWF?? Easily hands out & bans penalties/members??..:confused: ;)

[cooler]

instead of guessing what should be the penalty which is laced with emotions and personal bias, why not have a PAP (Pick-A-Penalty) Contest? Guessing what BWF will decide on takes talent;):p

[azabaz_ipoh]

instead of guessing what should be the penalty which is laced with emotions and personal bias, why not have a PAP (Pick-A-Penalty) Contest? Guessing what BWF will decide on takes talent;):p

interesting idea :):D:D:D:p

[ctjcad]

instead of guessing what should be the penalty which is laced with emotions and personal bias, why not have a PAP (Pick-A-Penalty) Contest? Guessing what BWF will decide on takes talent;):p
..talent or luck??..:confused:

[jerby]

I can't help but notice the 27 comparisons to TH's action...
"TH just walked out, the punishment should be stiffer"

Well now, that's not quite true...AFter yelling at the ump, yelling at the linesman, and iirc some more random yelling, he shook LD's hand (no umps, no judges, nobody) and just left...
"he just walked out"...yeah right... way to sugarcoat things..
Next up, TH did it because he wanted to address an important issue with the bwf and make a heroic stand against the regime...

I'm not condoning LD's actions (though I definatly understand how he feels, being cheated out of 2 set points in a row some weeks back) But just comparing it to an older, settled argument (with a high level of sentiment added) and then beating that down... Not very fair to LD.

I'd say fine + ranking points deducted (which is a lot, seeing it was a final)...Let him be the #2 again for some time ;)

[Dreamzz]

yeah, penalty competition!
cool ....

[x50926x]

Well, for me, i would go for a large fine. Then use the money to hire more credible line judges or install cameras (if the fine is large enough) :D

Or, Lin Dan himself can follow in Zidane's footsteps and voluntarily serve three days of community service by being a line judge in the next SS :D

[jimbo]

I think fine $$$ is not the effective way coz badminton players do not earn as much as footballer (with comparison between LD and Zidane). So, this is out of question.

IMHO, the most effective penalty is to deduct his ranking points (just like Seria A or EPL) significantly (OG is approaching) and hopefully he will learn how to control his emotions on/off courts.

As for LM, BWF should impose HUGE fine (at least US$20,000) for his "inappropriate" approach/misconduct. He has NO rights to leave his chair and try to "challenge" the umpire to NOT overrule the decision. Crap, this guy was trying to irritate LD and LD did retaliate. OK, both parties were at faults.

[tyran]

if no penalty given, for sure to be expected BWF transforms to WWF, a great wrestling battle or boxing would happen in future, badminton rackets to be used as flying blade. and the worst, it could happen in olympic game......

[LI De Quan]

LI Mao should be shown a yellow card but not only LD.

[X Ball]

I think fine $$$ is not the effective way coz badminton players do not earn as much as footballer (with comparison between LD and Zidane). So, this is out of question.

IMHO, the most effective penalty is to deduct his ranking points (just like Seria A or EPL) significantly (OG is approaching) and hopefully he will learn how to control his emotions on/off courts.

As for LM, BWF should impose HUGE fine (at least US$20,000) for his "inappropriate" approach/misconduct. He has NO rights to leave his chair and try to "challenge" the umpire to NOT overrule the decision. Crap, this guy was trying to irritate LD and LD did retaliate. OK, both parties were at faults.


I disagree - Li Mao is justified in raising his objection. He is the coach and he is part of a team. If he does not raise an objection, he would be seen as ineffective (he was paitent with the 4 previous calls reversal and wanted to make sure the 5th objection by LD is not carried). He has every right to object - if he was penalised for shouting then what do you think LD was doing ?

As to irritating LD, I am not sure about that -- I think Li Mao was irritated by LD (not the other way round) trying to influence the judge with his objections continuously.

Although I like Misbun a lot, I felt he could have said something on behalf of LCW when LCW raised objections on the wrongful calls against him in the China Open. Li Mao, at least stood up. And LD has no right to express such an outrageous temper on Li Mao (swinging a racket at someone for speaking out). It is like me telling you I am going to bash you for speaking out like this.:D;)

I don't see the reasons for taking action against Li Mao and will bet satay with you that Li Mao will not have any action taken against him.:D

[tyran]

LD should be given a red card for his severe misconduct.

[drifit]

LD should be given a red card for his severe misconduct.

good idea
one red card to LD
one red card to baseline's judge
one red card to sideline's judge
# can we issue red card to coach that interfere umpire judgment?? :p

[tyran]

then the player who attack coach should be denied from BWF membership.

[alfa-2]

I disagree - Li Mao is justified in raising his objection. He is the coach and he is part of a team. If he does not raise an objection, he would be seen as ineffective (he was paitent with the 4 previous calls reversal and wanted to make sure the 5th objection by LD is not carried). He has every right to object - if he was penalised for shouting then what do you think LD was doing ?

As to irritating LD, I am not sure about that -- I think Li Mao was irritated by LD (not the other way round) trying to influence the judge with his objections continuously.

Although I like Misbun a lot, I felt he could have said something on behalf of LCW when LCW raised objections on the wrongful calls against him in the China Open. Li Mao, at least stood up. And LD has no right to express such an outrageous temper on Li Mao (swinging a racket at someone for speaking out). It is like me telling you I am going to bash you for speaking out like this.:D;)

I don't see the reasons for taking action against Li Mao and will bet SATAY with you that Li Mao will not have any action taken against him.:D

im with you on this one. :D:D:D Satay anyone?

[george@chongwei]

i hope the BWF will investigate this problem properly and give any good and proper action...

[twobeer]

I disagree - Li Mao is justified in raising his objection. He is the coach and he is part of a team. If he does not raise an objection, he would be seen as ineffective (he was paitent with the 4 previous calls reversal and wanted to make sure the 5th objection by LD is not carried). He has every right to object - if he was penalised for shouting then what do you think LD was doing ?

As to irritating LD, I am not sure about that -- I think Li Mao was irritated by LD (not the other way round) trying to influence the judge with his objections continuously.

Although I like Misbun a lot, I felt he could have said something on behalf of LCW when LCW raised objections on the wrongful calls against him in the China Open. Li Mao, at least stood up. And LD has no right to express such an outrageous temper on Li Mao (swinging a racket at someone for speaking out). It is like me telling you I am going to bash you for speaking out like this.:D;)

I don't see the reasons for taking action against Li Mao and will bet satay with you that Li Mao will not have any action taken against him.:D

I think Misbun did the right thing! I think the players have their right to discuss rulings with the umpire. I do not think this is a part of a coach role. If he wants to act as "supporter" then he should sit in the audience!!!

[victory]

I think LD should be fined for a large fine and suspension for 3 SS. Let him play OG of course, other wise it will be too harsh. How about Thomas cup? What do you guys think?

Also LD must apologize to Li Mao, world baminton fans, Korean organizer and BWF. I don't see him doing it soon. He still show no remorse of his violent act on court. He is way to arrogant and recalcitrant.

What he has done has made him lost respect among badminton fans around the world. Being loved / admired is one thing. I am sure he has his fans that still love him.

But what about real respect? Nothing can replace dignity!! I think unless LD can sincerely apologize to the parties I have mentioned above, he has lost he respect and dignity.

This is like Germany that apologize sincerely for what they have done in WW2 and later help as many victim as possible. They have finally gained trust and respect among the internationl community. Comparetively let's look at another country (I don't want to mention name, I want to be as diplomatic as possible)where they have never sincerely apologize and refuse to help war victims in the countries that they have terrorized, untill today they still don't gain trust and really respect. ( I must clarify that I mention the above solely for the purpose of explaining my point.)

By the same token, if LD refuse to apologize, people will always remeber he is the ( one and only in history perhaps)player that try to hit someone when losing. When people mention his name, their say "YUK!! Violent guy! So what he is a world champion. I don't want my son to be like him!"

But if he sincerely apologize and promise that he will never act violently on court, people can forgive him.

One can not loss dignity and respect. Acheivement in career can not replace dignity and respect.

[eaglehelang]

I can't help but notice the 27 comparisons to TH's action...
"TH just walked out, the punishment should be stiffer"

Well now, that's not quite true...AFter yelling at the ump, yelling at the linesman, and iirc some more random yelling, he shook LD's hand (no umps, no judges, nobody) and just left...
"he just walked out"...yeah right... way to sugarcoat things..
Next up, TH did it because he wanted to address an important issue with the bwf and make a heroic stand against the regime...

I'm not condoning LD's actions (though I definatly understand how he feels, being cheated out of 2 set points in a row some weeks back) But just comparing it to an older, settled argument (with a high level of sentiment added) and then beating that down... Not very fair to LD.

I'd say fine + ranking points deducted (which is a lot, seeing it was a final)...Let him be the #2 again for some time ;)

1) Look again at the pictures Red00estrat took. He shook LD's hand, umpires
hand, pack up, left.
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35765&page=4

2) Comparisions are made because BWF has to look into that (as a precedent) when making a decision as any Displinary Board or court would have to. The severity of the case also comes into place, the more serious, the stiffer the sanction/penalty.

In certain countries, if it's the general public doing it, LD's racket throwing stunt could be charged with intention to injure in a criminal court.
That is the seriousness - however provoked, if a person throws objects at another, the other party can lounge a report, even if it didnt hit anybody.
If it was a sharp object (knife, steel rod, arrows, etc), it can become intention to kill.
And it's certainly more serious than Taufik's walking off incident.

IF BWF dishes punishment lesser than Taufik's, it would be seen as unfair to Indonesia. BWF must be seen to be fair to all countries or lose it's credibility among member nations.

[LazyBuddy]

Let's look at the poll result for now. The 2 extremes "no penalty" and "way harsh penalty" combined together for over 55%. While the rest, is less than half.

What's this tell us? A lot of ppl simply issued their votes because "I like him", "I don't like him", "he's my country's hero", "he's from the opponents", etc

This discussion becomes tasteless to a point, and I don't think the 2 sides will ever agree each other. :o

[vching]

im with you on this one. :D:D:D Satay anyone?

what can BWF do? Ban Li Mao from coaching:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:?

[2NDround]

[quote=nibaxiang;783264]hehe, my vote: no penalty (my take on this, BWF may just take some small fine).


One lineman can make mistake from time to time, which is considered fair & human nature. A group of people made the SAME mistake at the SAME time? You tell me what's going on.

A good action on this is to bypass tournaments in Korea (No offense to anybody) and let the cheaters play themselves, until something's done to improve the situation. If the same cheating thing happened in China, I would still propose the same solution.

Agreed!
If wholesale cheating is proven, bypass Korea next year and any other countries caught cheating.

[eaglehelang]

Who cares if he being fined.
He will wins all the heart and praises.

To me, walk out is better than to keep playing the game.
Shake hand, walk out calmly as a form of protest is probably the best thing to do as it will get WBF to really look into this linejudge matters, while continue playing like LCW only to make it as an encouragement for the rest to follow suit.
But I could be wrong on this.

Taufik did that in HK 2006, got punished. Things remained the same.


..that report is the official report/final decision regarding BWF's investigation in his 2006 HK Open walk-out incident case. I'm not aware of the latter part being "official", esp. abt him being suspended for 1 SS.:cool:

.:cool:

Yes, all that already stated the spokesman for the Displinary Board.
Our Huang doesnt simply mention things - the SS suspension & fine, that's why I asked where he read the info or he heard personally from Taufik/Taufik's coach.

[block306]

Does anyone know if WBF is really doing, considering of doing anything at all?

[Armor_tec_14]

I voted for small fine because he shouldn't have thrown the racket but I don't have anything against him.

[Birdwood]

Does anyone know if WBF is really doing, considering of doing anything at all?


I voted for small fine because he shouldn't have thrown the racket but I don't have anything against him.

It's a thorny issue for BWF, not easy to determine penalties for each party. I agree a small fine, which is more symbolic in nature than substances.

[Kamen]

On top of the mentioned penalties, i think Lin Dan should attend 40 hours of anger management classes too.

[Fengwei]

No fine at all. Both sides were in this "fight". This means that both sides shall be punished, or both sides shall be cleared of all charges. (with a warning, if it must) If BWF should choose between these two, I guess they'd go for the last one.

If it was only Lin's fault, them fine him. At the most, suspend him from one SS. Definitely not more.

[Birdwood]

I would suggest that in the future, BWF should change the world ranking system:

1. to incorporate players' behaviors in the world ranking system. If any players misbehave in competitions, points should be deducted, so they would end up losing the world rank points and possibly seeding in SS.

2. to rank each country for her ability to organize tournaments. If things, like biased linesmen and umpires, show up as well as other organizational problems, a country may be ranked lower with fewer points in the world ranking. The higher the ranking, the more tournaments a country will get to organize. No tournaments for the lowest ones.

3. to rank umpires in a world ranking system. If an umpire is unfair, unprofessional, etc. will lose points, he/she may end up presiding over fewer and fewer SS and move over to other lesser tournaments, or not used at all.

4. it's up to each country to rank their own linesmen. It's in the best interest of the country to do so to ensure using the best linesmen because it's directly related to #2 above.

[yen_saw]

Don't be surprise if BWF do nothing at all to punish both LD and LM, for commercial reason. It will be sad if that's true. Even a warning is not suffice to stop similar incident from happening again, if not worse.

[pauline]

Don't think small fine nor large fine will be effective....I go for suspension for 1 SS.

[hollywood_t]

Wow if I replace "LD" w/ "Taufik" i get alot of flashbacks to previous LD er Taufik moments and postings. Objectively, the whole situation isn't much different. It's amazing that people conveniently forget the past when a new nail sits up waiting to be hammered down. I personally love the articles saying Taufik X /= LD Y.

Gumbo shrimp, coconut shrimp, fried shrimp, garlic shrimp, jumbo shrimp they're all still shrimp people.... :)

Or is it the fact that LD is currently the world #1 who is dominating the scene. I suppose that is the price of being the king on the mountain. Everyone loves to bash the leader. Understandable, it's just human nature.

Oh well, a small fine and 1 SS is my vote, except that button wasn't offered.






again, i agree. :D

a lot of people are kind of protecting and making excuses for LD because they think he was provoked into it. nobody here are putting the blame on LD only. they also blame LM and the linesperson. but LD threw a racket! he threw a racket at a group of people. he could hurt someone.

TH was penalize for what he did. other players have been penalized before for a myriad of misconducts before. and what LD did was one of the top ones for the violent way he acted.

my vote? large fine and suspensions of at least 2 SS for LD. and the same goes for LM. large fine and he could not attend any of his charges matches for 1 or 2 SS. and the korean organizer should also be given a large fine for letting a bias linesperson do that in the finals. and Korean open suspended for one year. this will deter all party from repeating this offense. ;)

[Hierkommtnils]

No penalty!!!

Why should there be a penatly? Nothing happend there besides an emotional reaction, which is human.

[nibaxiang]

Wow if I replace "LD" w/ "Taufik" i get alot of flashbacks to previous LD er Taufik moments and postings. Objectively, the whole situation isn't much different. It's amazing that people conveniently forget the past when a new nail sits up waiting to be hammered down. I personally love the articles saying Taufik X /= LD Y.

Gumbo shrimp, coconut shrimp, fried shrimp, garlic shrimp, jumbo shrimp they're all still shrimp people.... :)

Or is it the fact that LD is currently the world #1 who is dominating the scene. I suppose that is the price of being the king on the mountain. Everyone loves to bash the leader. Understandable, it's just human nature.

Oh well, a small fine and 1 SS is my vote, except that button wasn't offered.

Agreed, a shrimp is a shrimp. Tough job for being the world #1 for so long. My hat off to LD, the king. :D

[Smichz]

I have chosen large fine n suspension.For additional,i also want his points to be deducted.No doubt that we all expect a big punishment for him.Besides,most of us want some more more colours,n competition in the sport.CHina's domination badminton to be the no 1,esp LD for years isn't healthy for the sport itself.If we really want to promote this sport some more,then that should be done...

[epaphroditus]

Bad line calls are part of the game, and you have to deal with it in a professionally manner. I know we all don't like bad line calls; admit it, even in club level, we argue quite a bit in bad calls and sometimes provoke into a fight! However, as world number 1, I think LD shouldn't let his emotion takes over his game (just like LCW did in CO). Large fines & suspension shall be imposed to discourage that kind of behavior in the future.

[cooler]

[quote=nibaxiang;783264]
Agreed!
If wholesale cheating is proven, bypass Korea next year and any other countries caught cheating.
i thot after 1988 Seoul Olympic, korea's biased judging had been illustrated quite clearly

[OneToughBirdie]

Originally Posted by hollywood_t http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=783962#post783962)
Gumbo shrimp, coconut shrimp, fried shrimp, garlic shrimp, jumbo shrimp they're all still shrimp people.... :)


Agreed, a shrimp is a shrimp. Tough job for being the world #1 for so long. My hat off to LD, the king. :D

Yuou guys missed out on steam shrimps....live shrimps (those thingie that swim, not frozen), steam them just tender, get a bottle of good red wine beat all the afore-mentioned shrimp you posted...one thing, eat them before doing medical checkup, cholesterol go up the moon...hehehe!!:D:p

[nibaxiang]

i thot after 1988 Seoul Olympic, korea's biased judging had been illustrated quite clearly

Yeah, in soccer world cup as well.

As I mentioned in another post, when individuals play against a group of cheaters, there won't be a fair game, with hawk eyes or not. This is something needs to be fixed with top priority.

Multiple overrulings by umpire in a single match. A group of people made the SAME mistake at the SAME time. People, please don't tell me they are not a group of cheaters.

Anyway, LD already mentioned in some casual talk (with friends) that he will not going back to KO.

[ye333]

I don't understand this part. In KO07 MSF, the umpire was quite fair and overruled 80% of the biased line calls (with LHI only taking advantage of one single point, this MSF is definitely among the fairer half of all MSFs involving home country players). If there was hawk-eye or overrule-using-slow-motion, the remaining 20% would be eliminated too. So if there is hawk-eye, and if the umpire and service judge are not from the home country, there will be fair games.



As I mentioned in another post, when individuals play against a group of cheaters, there won't be a fair game, with hawk eyes or not. This is something needs to be fixed with top priority.

Multiple overrulings by umpire in a single match. A group of people made the SAME mistake at the SAME time. People, please don't tell me they are not a group of cheaters.

Anyway, LD already mentioned in some casual talk (with friends) that he will not going back to KO.

[Wong8Egg]

I don't understand this part. In KO07 MSF, the umpire was quite fair and overruled 80% of the biased line calls (with LHI only taking advantage of one single point, this MSF is definitely among the fairer half of all MSFs involving home country players). If there was hawk-eye or overrule-using-slow-motion, the remaining 20% would be eliminated too. So if there is hawk-eye, and if the umpire and service judge are not from the home country, there will be fair games.

The first time I would have to agree with this fellow. Hawk-eye or instant reply will shut the mouths of everybody. :p

[LazyBuddy]

I don't understand this part. In KO07 MSF, the umpire was quite fair and overruled 80% of the biased line calls (with LHI only taking advantage of one single point, this MSF is definitely among the fairer half of all MSFs involving home country players).


I am kinda sick that ppl using the earlier overruled biased line calls to against LD. :mad:

Whether a biased line call being overruled or not, it's a biased call which should NEVER HAPPEN to begin with. And please don't tell me such "extra flavor" is a bonus to the receiving player.

Let me ask you a question, during a competitive game, do you want your line judge to be fair and clear to begin with, or, you want your line judge to make tons of biased called, but got most of corrected at the end?

Let me ask you another simple question, if say, 8 out of 10 bad calls against you got overruled, do you consider you still got cheated 2 times, or you think you got 2 extra bonus??? :rolleyes:

There are huge difference btw: 1. Only 1 biased call through the game vs. 2. Tons of biased calls, and luckily some of them being corrected.

[LazyBuddy]

.Besides,most of us want some more more colours,n competition in the sport.CHina's domination badminton to be the no 1,esp LD for years isn't healthy for the sport itself.If we really want to promote this sport some more,then that should be done...

Again, why the hell we drag LD's personal action to be linked to CHN's domination of the sports. It's so sad to see other nations can only pray for some dirts and inccidents to the CHN players, but not think about how to improve themselves.

Remember, the true warrior never ask for a fight with his opponents, when the opponent is sick or already deeply wounded from somewhere else. The true warrior want to fight against the powerful opponent during his/her prime, but not when s/he is old, sick and in wheel chairs.

C'mon guys, keep some face and pride about yourself. Work your own @$$ off to be better. Not to play "black witch" using dark spells to curse, and dream about opponents getting into accident everyday. :mad:

[Athelete1234]

I have chosen large fine n suspension.For additional,i also want his points to be deducted.No doubt that we all expect a big punishment for him.Besides,most of us want some more more colours,n competition in the sport.CHina's domination badminton to be the no 1,esp LD for years isn't healthy for the sport itself.If we really want to promote this sport some more,then that should be done...
Do we really want to beat LD when he's down? Or when he's at his best? The greatest revenge is when you work hard to beat your rival when he's at his best too....besides, it's not china's fault that it's #1 because China puts a lot of hard work into it's players too; if China sets the standard for the #1 badminton nation, other nations have to rise up to the challenge, or go down fighting...

[ye333]

If we are talking about a match being fair or not, we have to look at the result right? If a biased line call is overruled, then no harm done.

My opinion: as a professional player, 5 biased calls with 4 overruled should be the same as 1 biased call. I got cheated once in both cases. I lose exactly one point in both cases. Maybe you can tell me what's the difference as long as only the match is concerned.

The only difference I see, is that in the former case the line judges are bad or hostile. But that's not my business. If I am a professional player, all I care about is I don't lose points due to biased calls.

Getting angry because some line judges seem to be against you (even if this guy cannot really harm you since his biased calls will be overruled) is unprofessional and stupid. As world No. 1 for >3 years, LD should know better. Indeed he is more professional than you thought. What set him off is not the biased call, it's his negative opinion about LM combined with LM trying hard to help LHI. If LHI's coach is not LM but some Korean guy, there will definitely be no "racket-throwing".


I am kinda sick that ppl using the earlier overruled biased line calls to against LD. :mad:

Whether a biased line call being overruled or not, it's a biased call which should NEVER HAPPEN to begin with. And please don't tell me such "extra flavor" is a bonus to the receiving player.

Let me ask you a question, during a competitive game, do you want your line judge to be fair and clear to begin with, or, you want your line judge to make tons of biased called, but got most of corrected at the end?

Let me ask you another simple question, if say, 8 out of 10 bad calls against you got overruled, do you consider you still got cheated 2 times, or you think you got 2 extra bonus??? :rolleyes:

There are huge difference btw: 1. Only 1 biased call through the game vs. 2. Tons of biased calls, and luckily some of them being corrected.

[stork]

...
What set him off is not the biased call[/B], it's his negative opinion about LM combined with LM trying hard to help LHI. If LHI's coach is not LM but some Korean guy, there will definitely be no "racket-throwing".

exactly, that´s the point...

[ctjcad]

Let's look at the poll result for now. The 2 extremes "no penalty" and "way harsh penalty" combined together for over 55%. While the rest, is less than half.

What's this tell us? A lot of ppl simply issued their votes because "I like him", "I don't like him", "he's my country's hero", "he's from the opponents", etc

This discussion becomes tasteless to a point, and I don't think the 2 sides will ever agree each other. :o
...hmm, yeah, but if you take the lump of people in the middle of the spectrum and tally up all the numbers (i think it should add up to more than 40%), there are much more people who could be sympathizers or on neutral side as to what type of penalty LD should get..:cool:

...
What set him off is not the biased call, it's his negative opinion about LM combined with LM trying hard to help LHI.
If LHI's coach is not LM but some Korean guy, there will definitely be no "racket-throwing".
...
..an interesting thought...definitely something of a possibility as i can't imagine both of them arguing one in Chinese and the other in Korean language..:cool:

[chibe_K]

How many more bad examples from Lin Dan that BWF allows to happen before doing anything ! We have school boys and girls out there guys who learn from players!

[sepang]

I adore LD's skill and physical strength but I could not tolerance his violence on the court - threw the racket outside court during the game. He disrespects the org, the fans, his opp, his team, the nation that he represents.

Serious punishment is needed - 1 SS and large fine.
Similar punishment is needed for LM
Where is poll for LM?

[Wong8Egg]

I have chosen large fine n suspension.For additional,i also want his points to be deducted.No doubt that we all expect a big punishment for him.Besides,most of us want some more more colours,n competition in the sport.CHina's domination badminton to be the no 1,esp LD for years isn't healthy for the sport itself.If we really want to promote this sport some more,then that should be done...
This is a shame just to look at, and what a silly comment it is. Another proof that people vote to penalty LD heavily simply out of there hatred toward LD personally, LYB or the Chinese team. I would rather to see China complete domination than seeing dirty politics in badminton. :mad:

[MSN04]

I adore LD's skill and physical strength but I could not tolerance his violence on the court - threw the racket outside court during the game. He disrespects the org, the fans, his opp, his team, the nation that he represents.

Serious punishment is needed - 1 SS and large fine.
Similar punishment is needed for LM
Where is poll for LM?

what? disrespect the organizer? how so? Is the organizer even respectable when they make calls favoring their own team? :D

[Polar Bear]

The yellow card he recieved is enough. We don't need to dredge up this incident again and again. He threw is racquet in the general direction of the opposing coach, big deal. The man is an elite athelete, if he wanted the racquet to hit the guy the guy would have been hit.

You want apologies? Me too,

1. I want an apology from the Chinese officials for the horrendous line calls during the China Open.

2. I want an apology from Korean officials for the horrendous line calls during the Korean Open.

3. I want an apology from the Chinese team for their repeated abuse of the walkover.

4. I want an apology from the governing body of badminton for doing such a bad job of presenting our sport.

We don't need coaches sitting court side they're not supposed to be instructing the playing during a match anyways. What are they there for? Put them in the stands like they do in tennis. The idea of a coach lobbying a chair umpire about a line call is preposterous. Can you imagine Jimmy Connors storming the chair umpire at the US open about a line call going against Andy Roddick? The world body also needs to stamp out cheating. These incidents of line calls and questionable walkovers are way way way more determental to the credibility of Badminton as a sport than Lin Dan tossing his racquet in the general direction of a coach who shouldn't be anywhere near the court in the first place.

Well that's my rant, hope is was at least semi coherant.

[Athelete1234]

Where is poll for LM?
I'm waiting for one too.


The yellow card he recieved is enough. We don't need to dredge up this incident again and again. He threw is racquet in the general direction of the opposing coach, big deal. The man is an elite athelete, if he wanted the racquet to hit the guy the guy would have been hit.

You want apologies? Me too,

1. I want an apology from the Chinese officials for the horrendous line calls during the China Open.

2. I want an apology from Korean officials for the horrendous line calls during the Korean Open.

3. I want an apology from the Chinese team for their repeated abuse of the walkover.

4. I want an apology from the governing body of badminton for doing such a bad job of presenting our sport.


I'm agreeing with this. We've got haters, and supporters in all of this, but IMO this is just another one of those incidents where the player is the victem, and the governing body is the one at fault. If taufik understood mandarin, I'm sure that this would have happened before, and who would be hating on him? Heck, him and LCW are the most popular MS players on this entire forum anyways. Why is LD receiving all of the hate?

[Jasonvan]

Yeah, in soccer world cup as well.

As I mentioned in another post, when individuals play against a group of cheaters, there won't be a fair game, with hawk eyes or not. This is something needs to be fixed with top priority.

Multiple overrulings by umpire in a single match. A group of people made the SAME mistake at the SAME time. People, please don't tell me they are not a group of cheaters.

Anyway, LD already mentioned in some casual talk (with friends) that he will not going back to KO.

Oh yes, I almost forgot the world cup, when Korea cheated my favorite Spain out of the tournment, how can you score mulitiple goals yet they don't count... Oh ya, they were against the Korean team, I forgot...

[sopofedupz]

I'm not standing on either side. However, IMO, it's understandable on how Lin Dan had reacted but it's not so acceptable for him to throw his racket. Under these circumstances, Lin Dan should just control his emotion and get on playing. Rather than losing his temper, it's much worthwhile for him to keep his mind focus in winning the game. Throwing his racket just will show the negative side of him, thereby leading to the controversy we have right now. Of course, under such tense environment, it is easier said than done. But, it is not impossible. As one of the BC members (chibe_k) said, there a lot of younger players out there who is looking up on Lin Dan and trying to learn from him. When Lin Dan acted as such, how would the parents explain to them that their idol reacted so?

Besides, everyone must be responsible for their own actions. IMHO, whether Li Mao did really do something to trigger Lin Dan's anger or not, Lin Dan would still need to apologize in order to be a mature and responsible adult. In this way, more people will actually look up on him and will not see him as he is diffusing his responsibility for someone else. It is Lin Dan himself who had made the choice to toss his racket. Of course, Li Mao has to apologize too if he really had said something inappropriate to Lin Dan...Just my points of view....

[Wong8Egg]

I'm waiting for one too.


I'm agreeing with this. We've got haters, and supporters in all of this, but IMO this is just another one of those incidents where the player is the victem, and the governing body is the one at fault. If taufik understood mandarin, I'm sure that this would have happened before, and who would be hating on him? Heck, him and LCW are the most popular MS players on this entire forum anyways. Why is LD receiving all of the hate?

It is because LD beating LCW and TH for too many times. :D

j/k :p

[tjl_vanguard]

It is because LD beating LCW and TH for too many times. :D

j/k :p

vice versa... but w/out the line "too many times." :D

[huangkwokhau]

I'm waiting for one too.


I'm agreeing with this. We've got haters, and supporters in all of this, but IMO this is just another one of those incidents where the player is the victem, and the governing body is the one at fault. If taufik understood mandarin, I'm sure that this would have happened before, and who would be hating on him? Heck, him and LCW are the most popular MS players on this entire forum anyways. Why is LD receiving all of the hate?
Well..lets see how many haters of TH at that time during HKO 06....so basically you guys said that thats okay not to punish LD ( he is elite one)but it was OK and fair to punish TH and others..it shows you are BIAS already...was 'nt it BIAS too from TH haters?????how it is so easy that walking out had to go all the way to KL for a hearing....by the way,...chinese referee got free ticket while provoking TH....come on..guys...!!!TH 's case is just another incident??...Korean MD walked out also after protesting and did not get anything during CO.....They did yell too..I saw the match...

[X Ball]

I think Misbun did the right thing! I think the players have their right to discuss rulings with the umpire. I do not think this is a part of a coach role. If he wants to act as "supporter" then he should sit in the audience!!!

Sorry, you are wrong. It is the other way round. If he does nothing, he should be in the stand like all of us...watching only.

If I were him down there with the player, I would provide my support and walk over to the Umpire to show my dislike of calls (of course, I would not act like LD, throwing rackets or shouting at other coaches). I know LCW would have liked to see his coach assisting him in some form to query the bad calls rather than be a 'fence sitter'.

[X Ball]

I think LD should be fined for a large fine and suspension for 3 SS. Let him play OG of course, other wise it will be too harsh. How about Thomas cup? What do you guys think?

Also LD must apologize to Li Mao, world baminton fans, Korean organizer and BWF. I don't see him doing it soon. He still show no remorse of his violent act on court. He is way to arrogant and recalcitrant.

What he has done has made him lost respect among badminton fans around the world. Being loved / admired is one thing. I am sure he has his fans that still love him.

But what about real respect? Nothing can replace dignity!! I think unless LD can sincerely apologize to the parties I have mentioned above, he has lost he respect and dignity.

This is like Germany that apologize sincerely for what they have done in WW2 and later help as many victim as possible. They have finally gained trust and respect among the internationl community. Comparetively let's look at another country (I don't want to mention name, I want to be as diplomatic as possible)where they have never sincerely apologize and refuse to help war victims in the countries that they have terrorized, untill today they still don't gain trust and really respect. ( I must clarify that I mention the above solely for the purpose of explaining my point.)

By the same token, if LD refuse to apologize, people will always remeber he is the ( one and only in history perhaps)player that try to hit someone when losing. When people mention his name, their say "YUK!! Violent guy! So what he is a world champion. I don't want my son to be like him!"

But if he sincerely apologize and promise that he will never act violently on court, people can forgive him.

One can not loss dignity and respect. Acheivement in career can not replace dignity and respect.

I like your train of thoughts and agree... he must apologise to Li Mao !

[X Ball]

Well..lets see how many haters of TH at that time during HKO 06....so basically you guys said that thats okay not to punish LD ( he is elite one)but it was OK and fair to punish TH and others..it shows you are BIAS already...was 'nt it BIAS too from TH haters?????how it is so easy that walking out had to go all the way to KL for a hearing....by the way,...chinese referee got free ticket while provoking TH....come on..guys...!!!TH 's case is just another incident??...Korean MD walked out also after protesting and did not get anything during CO.....They did yell too..I saw the match...

Your point is loud and clear -- if we allow this bias to rule, badminton would become less enjoyable. Whilst we can defend our heroes as fans, we must also play fair to others. If acts like LD's are not punished, then we can see similar all the time in the future, and then there will be no way to enforce any punishment in the future as everyone could point to this unpunished event. If we want that to happen, we would kill badminton.

[ctjcad]

Well..lets see how many haters of TH at that time during HKO 06....so basically you guys said that thats okay not to punish LD ( he is elite one)but it was OK and fair to punish TH and others..it shows you are BIAS already...was 'nt it BIAS too from TH haters?????how it is so easy that walking out had to go all the way to KL for a hearing....by the way,...chinese referee got free ticket while provoking TH....come on..guys...!!!TH 's case is just another incident??...Korean MD walked out also after protesting and did not get anything during CO.....They did yell too..I saw the match...
..Hau-ge, i think it goes both ways, both in this incident and Taufik's 2006 HKO incident. If i'm not mistaken, there were biased-fans of Taufik who wished not to see him gets penalized. So were anti-Taufik fans who wished to see him gets penalized. And of course, there were others who stood in the middle/being neutral. The pros and anti voices, as well as neutral voices are/were there all along.
The only difference between then and now is, kwun didn't create a poll thread for Taufik's penalty (maybe kwun thought his offense didn't warrant this type of poll):confused: :p

Your point is loud and clear -- if we allow this bias to rule, badminton would become less enjoyable. Whilst we can defend our heroes as fans, we must also play fair to others. If acts like LD's are not punished, then we can see similar all the time in the future, and then there will be no way to enforce any punishment in the future as everyone could point to this unpunished event. If we want that to happen, we would kill badminton.
..the eyes of the badminton world will be on BWF and will see what decision(s) they'll come down with. But, again, like others have mentioned, for whatever decision(s) BWF comes out with, there will also be voices of agreements and disagreements on whatever decision(s)...
Anyway, we, BCers, on the other hand, will get an extra treat as we'll be waiting to see who wins your Satay bet..:p :);)

[huangkwokhau]

Your point is loud and clear -- if we allow this bias to rule, badminton would become less enjoyable. Whilst we can defend our heroes as fans, we must also play fair to others. If acts like LD's are not punished, then we can see similar all the time in the future, and then there will be no way to enforce any punishment in the future as everyone could point to this unpunished event. If we want that to happen, we would kill badminton.
Yep..so far there are 47 members that suggesting LD will not get punisment while crying out loud that forums here are bias and hate toward LD...I suggest for those to look up at HKO thread 2006 and see how more bias and hatred toward TH.....it is so ridiculous!!!

[X Ball]

..Hau-ge, i think it goes both ways, both in this incident and Taufik's 2006 HKO incident. If i'm not mistaken, there were biased-fans of Taufik who wished not to see him gets penalized. So were anti-Taufik fans who wished to see him gets penalized. And of course, there were others who stood in the middle/being neutral. The pros and anti voices, as well as neutral voices are/were there all along.
The only difference between then and now is, kwun didn't create a poll thread for Taufik's penalty (maybe kwun thought his offense didn't warrant this type of poll):confused: :p

:DI give Kwun the benefit of the doubt as he probably thought it is time to do polls like this to get people's thoughts on this kind of incidences given that it is beginning to happen too many times.

[huangkwokhau]

..Hau-ge, i think it goes both ways, both in this incident and Taufik's 2006 HKO incident. If i'm not mistaken, there were biased-fans of Taufik who wished not to see him gets penalized. So were anti-Taufik fans who wished to see him gets penalized. And of course, there were others who stood in the middle/being neutral. The pros and anti voices, as well as neutral voices are/were there all along.
The only difference between then and now is, kwun didn't create a poll thread for Taufik's penalty (maybe kwun thought his offense didn't warrant this type of poll):confused: :p
My Point is for lighter incident in HKO 06, TH got so much negativity but LD's incident is far worst and start comparing that Walk out broke BWF rule and throwing racket is not part of BWF's rule so LD is not guilty.....it does not take a science to figure out that throwing like that is worst incident in out Badminton history ....you can look up at those posts here...you know what I mean....to make it more interesting...some members always declare themselves " neutral" and provoke others' double standard...but when comes to LD...now they are becoming double standard and bias....:cool:

[cooler]

My Point is for lighter incident in HKO 06, TH got so much negativity but LD's incident is far worst and start comparing that Walk out broke BWF rule and throwing racket is not part of BWF's rule so LD is not guilty.....it does not take a science to figure out that throwing like that is worst incident in out Badminton history ....you can look up at those posts here...you know what I mean....to make it more interesting...some members always declare themselves " neutral" and provoke others' double standard...but when comes to LD...now they are becoming double standard and bias....:cool:

please do not pre-label BF posters as TH or LD haters or lovers, it is really unfair. Liking a particular player's skills and behaviors does not make this same person hating that player's competitors. If yourself do hates a particular player, don't stereotype others as haters just because we don't support your particular fans as much as u do.

[badMania]

Sorry, you are wrong. It is the other way round. If he does nothing, he should be in the stand like all of us...watching only.

If I were him down there with the player, I would provide my support and walk over to the Umpire to show my dislike of calls (of course, I would not act like LD, throwing rackets or shouting at other coaches). I know LCW would have liked to see his coach assisting him in some form to query the bad calls rather than be a 'fence sitter'.

I agree with X-Ball here. A coach should be concerned of the match proceedings and do the right things when necessary, in the right manner.

[huangkwokhau]

some members here already labelled LD haters in the beginning......so who really starts that???some members labelled me Anti CHN during Macau open because I did not support his players.....I am wondering who was that???:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[ctjcad]

My Point is for lighter incident in HKO 06, TH got so much negativity but LD's incident is far worst and start comparing that Walk out broke BWF rule and throwing racket is not part of BWF's rule so LD is not guilty.....it does not take a science to figure out that throwing like that is worst incident in out Badminton history ....you can look up at those posts here...you know what I mean....to make it more interesting...some members always declare themselves " neutral" and provoke others' double standard...but when comes to LD...now they are becoming double standard and bias....:cool:

Yep..so far there are 47 members that suggesting LD will not get punisment while crying out loud that forums here are bias and hate toward LD...I suggest for those to look up at HKO thread 2006 and see how more bias and hatred toward TH.....it is so ridiculous!!!
..I think LD is getting a lot of negativity in this incident. Sure, there are some voices/posts who seem to "sympathize" with him or might sound to be "double standard". But in general, at least from what i've read, most of the BCers disapprove of LD's action. And same thing w/ what Taufik did in 2006 HKO.
As for the comments/posts, i've highlighted in bold, well, for one, just ignore those and don't take them seriously. I mean, is the number significant enough for us to be concerned about? If i'm not mistaken, those type of posts probably showed up also during Taufik's 2006 HKO incident (but it's been a while already that our minds tend to only remember the negatives more so than the positives). And I don't think we need to compare how many anti-posts in TH's incident w/this incident.:p
Again, as i said, it goes both ways.:cool:

[huangkwokhau]

Good luck guys for debating!! hehe...I am out to celebrate chinese new year in my hometown...( hard to get internet...hehe)
Happy Chinese New Year for those celebrating!! hope we can get BC more members in the year of Rat!

[cooler]

some members here already labelled LD haters in the beginning......so who really starts that???some members labelled me Anti CHN during Macau open because I did not support his players.....I am wondering who was that???:rolleyes::rolleyes:non-supporter does not equal to a hater. No, I don't know who was that person.

[Xinguy]

If that match so happen to be TH vs LHI it will be a great show to watch:D i guess probably Th will throw his racket to the crowd or on the floor than, pack his bag n go:) can forget about the match no sportmanship at all...

[X Ball]

..Hau-ge, i think it goes both ways, both in this incident and Taufik's 2006 HKO incident. If i'm not mistaken, there were biased-fans of Taufik who wished not to see him gets penalized. So were anti-Taufik fans who wished to see him gets penalized. And of course, there were others who stood in the middle/being neutral. The pros and anti voices, as well as neutral voices are/were there all along.
The only difference between then and now is, kwun didn't create a poll thread for Taufik's penalty (maybe kwun thought his offense didn't warrant this type of poll):confused: :p

..the eyes of the badminton world will be on BWF and will see what decision(s) they'll come down with. But, again, like others have mentioned, for whatever decision(s) BWF comes out with, there will also be voices of agreements and disagreements on whatever decision(s)...
Anyway, we, BCers, on the other hand, will get an extra treat as we'll be waiting to see who wins your Satay bet..:p :);)


No takers for my satay bet so far, which means everyone somehow believes that there will be suspension. :D

[huangkwokhau]

non-supporter does not equal to a hater. No, I don't know who was that person.
You can find out thru threads for those supporters..they are not non supporters....hm...for Macau open...thread ios there to find out...
I just hope also that BWF is serious thinking to penalize Korean organizer too...thelinesmen had been well known for their bad calls.....unfortunately...

[ctjcad]

Good luck guys for debating!! hehe...I am out to celebrate chinese new year in my hometown...( hard to get internet...hehe)
Happy Chinese New Year for those celebrating!! hope we can get BC more members in the year of Rat!
..and have a good time back in your hometown celebrating CNY! Just don't party too much and then get sick again on your way back to the U.S. :p :);)

[X Ball]

You can find out thru threads for those supporters..they are not non supporters....hm...for Macau open...thread ios there to find out...
I just hope also that BWF is serious thinking to penalize Korean organizer too...thelinesmen had been well known for their bad calls.....unfortunately...


KONG SI FATT CHAI !!! Don't argue too much --- might spoil your Chinese New Year celebrations.:D

[huangkwokhau]

KONG SI FATT CHAI !!! Don't argue too much --- might spoil your Chinese New Year celebrations.:D
:D:D first time in 18 yrs back to Pontianak for chinese new year....hehe...Kung Xi Fat Chai...Hung Pao Na lai....:D:D

[huangkwokhau]

..and have a good time back in your hometown celebrating CNY! Just don't party too much and then get sick again on your way back to the U.S. :p :);)
Sigh!! weather in HKG is so bad...gloomy for last 8 days...:( Glad to get out of here...

[X Ball]

:D
:D:D first time in 18 yrs back to Pontianak for chinese new year....hehe...Kung Xi Fat Chai...Hung Pao Na lai....:D:D

Look out for the ghosts at Pontianak !! Might strip you off the Ang-Pows.:D:D

[ye333]

Watch LD interview man. He said that the main reason is "he (LM) is Chinese, how can he say that kind of things?" So LM being Chinese is an important factor here.


..an interesting thought...definitely something of a possibility as i can't imagine both of them arguing one in Chinese and the other in Korean language..:cool:

[Loh]

:D:D first time in 18 yrs back to Pontianak for chinese new year....hehe...Kung Xi Fat Chai...Hung Pao Na lai....:D:D

18 YEARS!

Where have you been all this while? :rolleyes:

Oh yes, travelling the globe!

But it is good that you still remember Pontianak! :eek:

Yes, now you can celebrate Chinese New Year in Indonesia but don't burn too many firecrackers! Onlt 18 allowed! :D

Gong Xi Fa Cai !

[ctjcad]

KONG SI FATT CHAI !!! Don't argue too much --- might spoil your Chinese New Year celebrations.:D
:p...X Ball, since no one wants to bet against you for LD's penalty, what do you think of shipping the Satays to Hau-ge for the CNY since he "predicted", prior to the MS Final, that there will be somekind of "controversial bad line calls"??...hmm:confused: :rolleyes:;):cool:

It seems that KOR linesmen has no shame as they have been warned by umpires...I can see it will happen on LD's match...

[Han]

Is just funny to know how much different in opinion we all can be watching the same video thru UTube and just look the poll about penalty Lin Dan should receive: the two extremes, no penalty, large fine and suspension, getting the most votes. How can that be?
Sina sports even mentioned most of the people is on Lin Dan side, hard to imagine but may be true. Come to think of it, I think Li Mao may be at fault here(can't say I am not flexible enough) ... This world is upside down!!

[azabaz_ipoh]

Well, for me, i would go for a large fine. Then use the money to hire more credible line judges or install cameras (if the fine is large enough) :D

Or, Lin Dan himself can follow in Zidane's footsteps and voluntarily serve three days of community service by being a line judge in the next SS :D

good idea. why not? show others you are willing to do something to show your remorse for your misconduct. :)


if no penalty given, for sure to be expected BWF transforms to WWF, a great wrestling battle or boxing would happen in future, badminton rackets to be used as flying blade. and the worst, it could happen in olympic game......

we are goning to have sabers in the courts in the near future...heheheheh, better curb this now before we witness sabers flying around. :)


I think Misbun did the right thing! I think the players have their right to discuss rulings with the umpire. I do not think this is a part of a coach role. If he wants to act as "supporter" then he should sit in the audience!!!

i also agree that the coach should not approach the umpire at all even if the calls are against your player. what the coaches should do is approach their player and help them get over the frustration and encourage them to just keep at it and tell them that even if they lose you know they have done their best in the circumstances.calm them down. show support for them. dont interrupt the match by getting into a shouting duel with the umpire or the opponents. misbun was right to not approach the umpire but i hoped he had approach LCW and show him some support.


Let's look at the poll result for now. The 2 extremes "no penalty" and "way harsh penalty" combined together for over 55%. While the rest, is less than half.

What's this tell us? A lot of ppl simply issued their votes because "I like him", "I don't like him", "he's my country's hero", "he's from the opponents", etc

This discussion becomes tasteless to a point, and I don't think the 2 sides will ever agree each other. :o

i dont see a "large fine and suspensions" as "way harsh penalty". harsh penalty would be to ban LD entirely. nobody wants that. he is after all a good player with awesome skills. "no penalty" i think is extreme considering the violent way he conducted himself. i dont support LD as a player but i do not hate him. i respect his hard work and skills on the court. but that does not justify his violent conduct. if TH or LCW did the same thing i would also call for the same punishment. we should be fair to everybody and not excuse bad behaviour because he is WR1 or because other people hate him or because he was robbed of a championship. other players of other sports had been dealt with bad hands before. england lost to maradona hand of god goal. but if you show bad behaviour or hurt someone, whether intentionally or not, you should be responsible. an apology is and will always be welcomed and take your punishment like a true sportsman.


I would suggest that in the future, BWF should change the world ranking system:

1. to incorporate players' behaviors in the world ranking system. If any players misbehave in competitions, points should be deducted, so they would end up losing the world rank points and possibly seeding in SS.

2. to rank each country for her ability to organize tournaments. If things, like biased linesmen and umpires, show up as well as other organizational problems, a country may be ranked lower with fewer points in the world ranking. The higher the ranking, the more tournaments a country will get to organize. No tournaments for the lowest ones.

3. to rank umpires in a world ranking system. If an umpire is unfair, unprofessional, etc. will lose points, he/she may end up presiding over fewer and fewer SS and move over to other lesser tournaments, or not used at all.

4. it's up to each country to rank their own linesmen. It's in the best interest of the country to do so to ensure using the best linesmen because it's directly related to #2 above.

i agree. :)


No penalty!!!

Why should there be a penatly? Nothing happend there besides an emotional reaction, which is human.

really? emotional human reaction? footballers are known to get emotional and get into fights with each other and even the referee. do they get away with it? no. they get a yellow card or even a red card immediately depending on how bad they acted on the field. instant punishment. why? because it is wrong. no matter what started the fight, it is wrong. being violent is wrong. especially when you are playing a sport with rules to follow and young kids wanting to imitate you. well known players of many sports have made mistakes before because they are human too. but most apologize and take the punishment gallantly and that is being a sportsman and a gentleman.


Bad line calls are part of the game, and you have to deal with it in a professionally manner. I know we all don't like bad line calls; admit it, even in club level, we argue quite a bit in bad calls and sometimes provoke into a fight! However, as world number 1, I think LD shouldn't let his emotion takes over his game (just like LCW did in CO). Large fines & suspension shall be imposed to discourage that kind of behavior in the future.

i agree with you here.


I am kinda sick that ppl using the earlier overruled biased line calls to against LD. :mad:

Whether a biased line call being overruled or not, it's a biased call which should NEVER HAPPEN to begin with. And please don't tell me such "extra flavor" is a bonus to the receiving player.

Let me ask you a question, during a competitive game, do you want your line judge to be fair and clear to begin with, or, you want your line judge to make tons of biased called, but got most of corrected at the end?

Let me ask you another simple question, if say, 8 out of 10 bad calls against you got overruled, do you consider you still got cheated 2 times, or you think you got 2 extra bonus??? :rolleyes:

There are huge difference btw: 1. Only 1 biased call through the game vs. 2. Tons of biased calls, and luckily some of them being corrected.

all players in whatever sport wants perfect judges or referees or linesmans. but in reality you will not get that in any sport. how you react to those instances are what make you a true champion. every sport have bias calls. every player have to go through this. no such thing as perfect referee. so question remains, should LD have reacted violently? and should he be penalized for that violent reaction? if your answer is no because he was treated unfairly, what would you say to all the other pro players from many other sports who did not resort to violence and practiced patience and calm manner, and what would you say to those who made mistakes even though they did not start the incident but apologize and took their punishment accordingly. are you saying all of them that remained calm are not human and those who acted violently should not have been punished? maybe we should look at the big picture and not just seeing this incident as one very special circumstances. this is not the first time these things happen in the sport arena. :)


Do we really want to beat LD when he's down? Or when he's at his best? The greatest revenge is when you work hard to beat your rival when he's at his best too....besides, it's not china's fault that it's #1 because China puts a lot of hard work into it's players too; if China sets the standard for the #1 badminton nation, other nations have to rise up to the challenge, or go down fighting...

i agree. to those who simply ask for punishment because they hated the fact that LD is dominating the sport, well shame on you. he worked hard to win. he put in a lot of hours in training. he deserve his wins. i prefer LCW to beat LD when he is on top of his game. not when he is injured or sick. not victory really in beating a less than 100% player. we should not punish him for that. you want to win, you work for it. no simple way around it.

but for the violence in court, LD should be punish and for that reason only. nothing more and nothing less. as should all parties involved and not just LD.


If that match so happen to be TH vs LHI it will be a great show to watch:D i guess probably Th will throw his racket to the crowd or on the floor than, pack his bag n go:) can forget about the match no sportmanship at all...

probably. and if that happens, TH should be punished too. no special treatment to anybody. and i always agree with the the punishment he received for walking out of HKO. and should anybody else do the same, punish them too. fair and square.


oH! and Happy Chinese New Year to all who celebrates it. May the new year bring prosperity, good health (for many more badminton sessions) and happiness! Happy holidays guys. :)

[cooler]

Is just funny to know how much different in opinion we all can be watching the same video thru UTube and just look the poll about penalty Lin Dan should receive: the two extremes, no penalty, large fine and suspension, getting the most votes. How can that be?
Sina sports even mentioned most of the people is on Lin Dan side, hard to imagine but may be true. Come to think of it, I think Li Mao may be at fault here(can't say I am not flexible enough) ... This world is upside down!!No, it's downside up:p

[winston]

主裁：判罚对林丹不公平，边裁偏袒韩国让人恼火
　　虽然自己在27日的韩国羽毛球超级赛男单决赛中的错判，引发了林丹与中国籍的韩国羽毛球队教练李矛的冲 突，但当值主裁判莫米亚昨晚通过电话告诉记者，他并未生林丹的气。

　　当时判罚确实有失误 听不懂争执的内容

　　FW：当时根据你的判断，球是否落在了界内？

　　莫米亚：这个球打在了林丹身后，从我这个角度无法判断球是否出了边线。当时边裁很肯定地示意我球在界内 ，电视裁判也给了我同样的提示。我因此坚持认定球在界内。但后来的电视录像证明，当时的判罚是 错误的。

　　FW：当时场上发生了什么？

　　莫米亚：当时林丹向我走过来，示意我，刚才的球出界了。李矛和林丹离得很近，他好像先对林丹说了什么， 然后林丹非常生气，二人争执起来。 遗憾的是，我不懂中文，不知道他们在说什么。

　　能理解林丹的愤怒 出示黄牌稳定了局势

　　FW：林丹在场上摔拍子，你当时对他的行为很愤怒吧？

　　莫米亚：我能理解林丹。决赛的局面僵持不下，任何运动员都会紧张，情绪一时失控是可以理解的。换作别的 运动员的话，可能会有人比林丹更生气吧。

　　FW：可你给林丹出示了黄牌。

　　莫米亚：由于事发突然，我必须让双方冷静下来。毕竟，在场上摔拍子是不应该的。当时我完全可以出示红牌 ，这样李铉一可以直接得分，拿下这局比赛，但我不想这样。这局比赛很精彩，胜负应该由运动员在场上决定，而 不是我的判罚。

　　这次判罚后，林丹在场上完全冷静下来了。尽管输掉了比赛，他还是走过来和我、李铉一很友好 地握了手。

　　边裁判罚屡次出问题　似乎有些偏向韩国队

　　FW：我注意到，在林丹和李铉一的决赛时，你曾经好几次推翻了边裁的判罚，为什么呢？

　　莫米亚：边裁在判断上明显出现了不该有的失误，我必须不断纠正边裁的判罚，这让我很恼火。

　　其实这不是一场比赛的问题。这次韩国超级赛，边裁的判罚出现了很多问题。可能是在主场的原因吧，边裁（ 全部来自韩国）的判罚似乎有些偏向主队。

　　FW：你觉得边裁是故意的吗？

　　莫米亚：也不能这么说。人人都会犯错，可能是因为他们（边裁）太年轻，也可能是因为他们当时没有留神。 文/记者 贾小飞

　　事件追踪

　　国家体育总局乒羽中心主任刘凤岩昨天表示，对于林丹在赛场上的不理智行为，中心会对其进行进一步教育， 但对李矛的行为，中国羽协也将向国际羽联提出上诉。

　　（搜狐体育）

This is the press phone interview with the Czech referee Mojmir Hnilica for the MS final between LD and LHI.

1. First thing Mojmir mentioned that he is not mad at LD.
2. There is language barrier and he couldn't understand the whole dispute.
3. The reasons he called the shot is IN based on:
a. the sideline is far away from him and the shuttle landed
behind LD.
b. He believed the line judge has a better angle and the line
judge showed that shuttle is on the line.
c. He look at the TV judge (I didn't know there is a TV judge
:)) and the TV judge give him the indication it is IN.
d. Based on all these informations, he made the call is IN.
4. However when he look at the video recording after the
match, he realized the shuttle is clearly out. It was a
WRONG call.
5. The reasons he gave LD a yellow card is that he wanted to
calm down the situation. Although he can give LD a red
card for thowing his raquet, but he believed the MS single
final was a great match and the outcome should be decided
by the performance of the players and NOT by the judge.
6. After the match, although LD lost the match, LD did calmed down and came over to shake his hand. LD also shaked LHI hand and congradulated him.
7. During the match, he had over ruled the line judge many
times and he believes the reasons that the line judge made so many
mistakes may be they are too young or they are not
concentrated enough.

(SOHO Sports)

[Loh]

"TV Judge" :confused::confused::confused:
What's this?
Definitely not in the current Laws of Badminton! :D

[Elixau]

I vote for Large fine and Suspension.
A professional player, and a No.1 player like him. SHOULD know how to control his emotions.

[pjswift]

I would suggest that in the future, BWF should change the world ranking system:

1. to incorporate players' behaviors in the world ranking system. If any players misbehave in competitions, points should be deducted, so they would end up losing the world rank points and possibly seeding in SS.

2. to rank each country for her ability to organize tournaments. If things, like biased linesmen and umpires, show up as well as other organizational problems, a country may be ranked lower with fewer points in the world ranking. The higher the ranking, the more tournaments a country will get to organize. No tournaments for the lowest ones.

3. to rank umpires in a world ranking system. If an umpire is unfair, unprofessional, etc. will lose points, he/she may end up presiding over fewer and fewer SS and move over to other lesser tournaments, or not used at all.

4. it's up to each country to rank their own linesmen. It's in the best interest of the country to do so to ensure using the best linesmen because it's directly related to #2 above.
Great idea!
But only no. 2 needs to be taken up because nos.1, 3 & 4 won't happen if no. 2 is strictly observed.
So, rules for organisers would be like:
1.Umpire and sj must be from countries different from competing players.(Hkg would be considered as part of CHN in this instance.)
2. If a line judge makes 2 clearly bad calls, he must be replaced immediately and banned. This applies for any stage of the tournament. (In Singapore, we once had such a linesman but he did not do it on purpose because the players were not Sporean;he was either sleepy or enjoying the match too much. The crowd booed him until the referee got the hint to replace him promptly.)Any line judge showing incompetence has no place to influence the outcome of a match, whether for vision, attention or patriotism reasons.
If an organiser fails to adhere to these rules, the tournament will be downgraded and the home player will have his/her ranking points voided and prize money donated to BWF player development fund.
So,for instance, if it should happen again in future,CO, HKO and KO will be downgraded to GP level.
Maybe some others have better 'rules' to suggest.

[ye333]

　　FW：当时场上发生了什么？

　　莫米亚：当时林丹向我走过来，示意我，刚才的球出界了。李矛和林丹离得很近，他好像先对林丹说了什么， 然后林丹非常生气，二人争执起来。
(SOHO Sports)

This part is simply not what happened before LD threw the racket. Let me paraphrase first (my English is not good enough to translate):

Umpire: LD walked to me, telling me it was out. LM was very close to LD. It seems he said something to LD first, then LD was angry (someone pls find a better word) and they started to argue.

Let us check the video. After the bad call, LD walked to the net and questioned LHI first. Then he walked up to the umpire and talked to the umpire, during this he was normal and facing the umpire all the time. Then he turned and walked away from the umpire (and of course away from LM too), acting normally. After a few steps he turned and suddenly threw the racket. There is simply no arguing between LD and LM and they were never "very close to each other" before the racket throwing.

So I would say, this interview is either partly made up, or heavily "edited" or the result of a "free-style" translation (that is, translate to whatever you like).

[pjswift]

"TV Judge" :confused::confused::confused:
What's this?
Definitely not in the current Laws of Badminton! :D
I think it means service judge.3x of translation ;from Czech to English to Mandarin and back to English!!

[Wong8Egg]

This part is simply not what happened before LD threw the racket. Let me paraphrase first (my English is not good enough to translate):

Umpire: LD walked to me, telling me it was out. LM was very close to LD. It seems he said something to LD first, then LD was angry (someone pls find a better word) and they started to argue.

If we check the video, after the bad call, LD walked to the net and questioned LHI first. Then he walked up to the umpire and talked to the umpire, during this he was normal and facing the umpire all the time. Then he turned and walked away from the umpire (and of course away from LM too), acting normally. After a few steps he turned and suddenly threw the racket. There is simply no arguing between LD and LM and they were never "very close to each other" before the racket throwing.

So I would say, this interview is either partly made up, or heavily "edited" or the result of a "free-style" translation (that is, translate to whatever you like).

There is a no point for you to follow this thread anymore if you simply disregard anything to help you from conclude LD as the worst man on the planet.

[Loh]

I think it means service judge.3x of translation ;from Czech to English to Mandarin and back to English!!

I thought they already got the "hawk eye" machine! :D

Or they allowed the TV camera man who zoomed in on the disputed shot to be the 'neutral' TV judge! :rolleyes:

[pjswift]

There is a no point for you to follow this thread anymore if you simply disregard anything to help you from conclude LD as the worst man on the planet.
He is performing an important job of questioning the source's accuracy by comparing it with the video.He is describing what's on the video, not smearing LD here.

[Wong8Egg]

He is performing an important job of questioning the source's accuracy by comparing it with the video.He is describing what's on the video, not smearing LD here.

Not so if he only questioning sources that sympathy LD.

[ye333]

That's a funny comment. The only Chinese source I saw that's not "sympathy LD" is the LM interview. I could not find anything there directly contradicting (although some parts are suspicious, for example LM said he said nothing before LD threw the racket) the existing videos so I could not find anything to say about it. :cool:

Btw, you have no right to tell me what to do. :mad: If you prefer fake news to truth, that's your choice though.


Not so if he only questioning sources that sympathy LD.

[Loh]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdwood
I would suggest that in the future, BWF should change the world ranking system:

1. to incorporate players' behaviors in the world ranking system. If any players misbehave in competitions, points should be deducted, so they would end up losing the world rank points and possibly seeding in SS.

2. to rank each country for her ability to organize tournaments. If things, like biased linesmen and umpires, show up as well as other organizational problems, a country may be ranked lower with fewer points in the world ranking. The higher the ranking, the more tournaments a country will get to organize. No tournaments for the lowest ones.

3. to rank umpires in a world ranking system. If an umpire is unfair, unprofessional, etc. will lose points, he/she may end up presiding over fewer and fewer SS and move over to other lesser tournaments, or not used at all.

4. it's up to each country to rank their own linesmen. It's in the best interest of the country to do so to ensure using the best linesmen because it's directly related to #2 above.


We might have to consider the following:

1. It is difficult to quantify players' misbehaviours in the form of "penalty points" as this is subjective. The "Penalty poll on LD" has shown how diverse and extreme views can be. I would support the suggestion to penalize with fine and a maximum of two SS suspensions, which will indirectly affect that errant player's WR and its consequences.

2. I support that host countries should be penalized if their organization and officials are seen to be biased and inefficient. This may mean that such countries would lose their SS status and may be downgraded to GP level.

However, the practical aspects may not be that simple. BWF doesn't currently have the clout to command great resources to be able to drop countries or players at will.

Imagine dropping Korea, which heads the SS prize money list with $300K, to GP level. Korea may never return to the BWF fold and we may really see the re-occurence of two world badminton bodies trying to outdo each other and to represent the game at international level! Badminton may really be dropped from the Olympics as a result of this peer rivalry.! :(

3. I agree that umpires should be assessed at every major tournament and ranked accordingly. The BWF might already have this in place but how often do they do this and who sits on the Ranking Panel to make unbiased assessment? Those who passed the test will be promoted to more important assignments and those who failed must be downgraded. Even then, the BWF must ensure that neutral umpires and other judges are always available for important tournaments and matches.

Limitation of Size

On this matter, one has to take into account the number of limited qualified umpires allowed to represent each country. There seems to be a quota system and a limitation on age. "Small countries" according to BWF definations, ie, those having smaller registered active players, are not given bigger quotas even if they have more talented officials.

For example, Singapore has a small quota, whereas China, Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia have a much biggger quota because of sheer population size. Singapore is well placed to provide the service as English is used as an everyday language and badminton is popular and well supported by the government, the commercial houses and the schools. But Singapore can't train more officials because it's more talented officials will feel greatly frustrated for not being to serve the international community and they may drop out eventually, even if they are still young.

In this sense small countries are discouraged from developing and upgrading their "umpires and officials pool" and you may find more biased officials from the badminton powerhouses! :mad:

[X Ball]

:p...X Ball, since no one wants to bet against you for LD's penalty, what do you think of shipping the Satays to Hau-ge for the CNY since he "predicted", prior to the MS Final, that there will be somekind of "controversial bad line calls"??...hmm:confused: :rolleyes:;):cool:

It is ok he was rewarded with Seafood dinner the last time he was here for MO.

Yeah, even though I think it should be several SS suspensions for that kind of aggression, the BWF is likely to invoke only 1 SS suspension. I maybe wrong but sure like to punt on this one.:D

[X Ball]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdwood
I would suggest that in the future, BWF should change the world ranking system:

1. to incorporate players' behaviors in the world ranking system. If any players misbehave in competitions, points should be deducted, so they would end up losing the world rank points and possibly seeding in SS.

2. to rank each country for her ability to organize tournaments. If things, like biased linesmen and umpires, show up as well as other organizational problems, a country may be ranked lower with fewer points in the world ranking. The higher the ranking, the more tournaments a country will get to organize. No tournaments for the lowest ones.

3. to rank umpires in a world ranking system. If an umpire is unfair, unprofessional, etc. will lose points, he/she may end up presiding over fewer and fewer SS and move over to other lesser tournaments, or not used at all.

4. it's up to each country to rank their own linesmen. It's in the best interest of the country to do so to ensure using the best linesmen because it's directly related to #2 above.


We might have to consider the following:

1. It is difficult to quantify players' misbehaviours in the form of "penalty points" as this is subjective. The "Penalty poll on LD" has shown how diverse and extreme views can be. I would support the suggestion to penalize with fine and a maximum of two SS suspensions, which will indirectly affect that errant player's WR and its consequences.

2. I support that host countries should be penalized if their organization and officials are seen to be biased and inefficient. This may mean that such countries would lose their SS status and may be downgraded to GP level.

However, the practical aspects may not be that simple. BWF doesn't currently have the clout to command great resources to be able to drop countries or players at will.

Imagine dropping Korea, which heads the SS prize money list with $300K, to GP level. Korea may never return to the BWF fold and we may really see the re-occurence of two world badminton bodies trying to outdo each other and to represent the game at international level! Badminton may really be dropped from the Olympics as a result of this peer rivalry.! :(

3. I agree that umpires should be assessed at every major tournament and ranked accordingly. The BWF might already have this in place but how often do they do this and who sits on the Ranking Panel to make unbiased assessment? Those who passed the test will be promoted to more important assignments and those who failed must be downgraded. Even then, the BWF must ensure that neutral umpires and other judges are always available for important tournaments and matches.

Limitation of Size

On this matter, one has to take into account the number of limited qualified umpires allowed to represent each country. There seems to be a quota system and a limitation on age. "Small countries" according to BWF definations, ie, those having smaller registered active players, are not given bigger quotas even if they have more talented officials.

For example, Singapore has a small quota, whereas China, Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia have a much biggger quota because of sheer population size. Singapore is well placed to provide the service as English is used as an everyday language and badminton is popular and well supported by the government, the commercial houses and the schools. But Singapore can't train more officials because it's more talented officials will feel greatly frustrated for not being to serve the international community and they may drop out eventually, even if they are still young.

In this sense small countries are discouraged from developing and upgrading their "umpires and officials pool" and you may find more biased officials from the badminton powerhouses! :mad:


Good points LOH.

[kwun]

posts about TH deleted. please stick to topic.

[Winston_T]

sometimes a walkout/over is better :D what lindan did is 'horrible' :eek:...

in my opinion:
if a player feels being cheated and the umpire doesn't response his/her objection/protest many times.. he/she'd better walkout/over than doing something 'endangers' other people :D

walkout/over was prohibited by BWF. that's why they threaten TH to avoid it happened again in the future.

[Winston_T]

Hmmm....why badminton doesn't has the hawk-eye system like in tennis? It might solve some of the bad line calls. :D:D


it is costly. players are also afraid if their prize will be deduct if the organizer use the "hawk-eye" technology:D

[badMania]

There is a no point for you to follow this thread anymore if you simply disregard anything to help you from conclude LD as the worst man on the planet.

Wow...wow....I don't think ye333 ever said that LD is the worst man on the planet? Or am I missing something here? :o

So far, I believe ye333's comments are probably the fairest :cool:

[Winston_T]

No penalty!!!

Why should there be a penatly? Nothing happend there besides an emotional reaction, which is human.

two thumbs up!:D

[badMania]

That's a funny comment. The only Chinese source I saw that's not "sympathy LD" is the LM interview. I could not find anything there directly contradicting (although some parts are suspicious, for example LM said he said nothing before LD threw the racket) the existing videos so I could not find anything to say about it. :cool:

Btw, you have no right to tell me what to do. :mad: If you prefer fake news to truth, that's your choice though.

Haha...indeed, most of the Chinese press are somewhat biased towards Lin Dan. Cool down mate....we know that you are very objective in your comments and never biased towards any players.

[badMania]

Has anyone noticed...since the incident last Sunday, we have so many newcomers on this board :D

[Badmintan]

The silver lining that comes out from this incident is it will increase the attention on World Badminton. Badminton news is sorely lacking in the media outside Asia. Surely western media will picked up on this incident.

The 'entertainment' value is there given the WWE-like scenario. I'm sure the news will replay this incident over and over again.

For example in the US, news about World soccer or ice hockey is sorely under-reported until the Zidane and Todd Bertuzzi incident. The western media loves to report sensational violent news. Not only that, the ratings of western media is pretty high around the world. Therefore, badminton is on sports news like it or not.

Therefore, 'What the World is Watching' is surely there during the Olympics.

[kwun]

Has anyone noticed...since the incident last Sunday, we have so many newcomers on this board :D

and miraculously, no one has gotten themselves banned... yet. :cool:

[badMania]

Sigh!! weather in HKG is so bad...gloomy for last 8 days...:( Glad to get out of here...

I just couldn't wait to get out of here....its too cold today :o:mad:

[badMania]

and miraculously, no one has gotten themselves banned... yet. :cool:

Haha...we still know the limits boss :o

[block306]

Does mere mortals llike us able to "move" WBF to do something on any issues??

[Winston_T]

I don't understand this part. In KO07 MSF, the umpire was quite fair and overruled 80% of the biased line calls (with LHI only taking advantage of one single point, this MSF is definitely among the fairer half of all MSFs involving home country players).

a comment from anti LD. every spectators, viewers and media said that it is totally unfair for LD. even Christian Hadinata agree with LD.

[badMania]

a comment from anti LD. every spectators, viewers and media said that it is totally unfair for LD. even Christian Hadinata agree with LD.

LOL....Christian Hadinata :eek::eek::eek:??? Where's the source if I may know :rolleyes:?

I believe the only comments made by the INA squad is that the standard of linejudges in Korea is probably the worst. It doesn't mean that Christian Hadinata agreed with LD's violence :o

[ye333]

Yes the last call from the line judge is totally unfair to LD. But the whole match? I don't think so. I don't think it's more unfair than CO 07 MSF.

Also, Christian Hadinata agree with LD on what? The smash was out? Or LD should throw the racket?


a comment from anti LD. every spectators, viewers and media said that it is totally unfair for LD. even Christian Hadinata agree with LD.

[ants]

Well not only InA team says that the Korean linejudges is bad.. i think most countries that participated in Korea agrees to it. Its a known fact even for many years. Now the matter is heated up due to what happend recently in Korea and also last year in China.

[badMania]

Yes the last call from the line judge is totally unfair to LD. But the whole match? I don't think so. I don't think it's more unfair than CO 07 MSF.

Also, Christian Hadinata agree with LD on what? The smash was out? Or LD should throw the racket?

Haha...even as Indonesian fan, I didn't know that Christian Hadinata had made a comment yet :eek: I just confirmed with Hau-Ge too. He only mentioned that the INA coaches complained about the standard of linejudges (as I mentioned), but, nothing on the part about agreeing with Lin Dan's behavior :cool:

[badMania]

Well not only InA team says that the Korean linejudges is bad.. i think most countries that participated in Korea agrees to it. Its a known fact even for many years. Now the matter is heated up due to what happend recently in Korea and also last year in China.

We know all along that the standard has been bad in Korea and somewhat, the players and coaches are mentally prepared for it.

[zqloy]

a comment from anti LD. every spectators, viewers and media said that it is totally unfair for LD. even Christian Hadinata agree with LD.

U sure about that? Or u've mistaken LYB with Christian Hadinata? :cool:

[badMania]

every spectators, viewers and media said that it is totally unfair for LD. even Christian Hadinata agree with LD.

I think the spectators and viewers in Korea will think otherwise :rolleyes: Weren't they happy when Lee Hyun Il won :D? U should add "...... and media in China" :p

[Winston_T]

LOL....Christian Hadinata :eek::eek::eek:??? Where's the source if I may know :rolleyes:?

I believe the only comments made by the INA squad is that the standard of linejudges in Korea is probably the worst. It doesn't mean that Christian Hadinata agreed with LD's violence :o

I have a brother lived in Ina, he read Jawa Pos (correct me if I'm wrong), dated Jan 29 or 30.

[kwun]

a comment from anti LD. every spectators, viewers and media said that it is totally unfair for LD. even Christian Hadinata agree with LD.
please quote your source, or otherwise i will delete all the posts related to it.

[badMania]

I have a brother lived in Ina, he read Jawa Pos (correct me if I'm wrong), dated Jan 29 or 30.

Read my post more carefully: Did Christian Hadinata ever mention that he agreed with Lin Dan's violent act? :cool:

I will try to dig up Jawa Pos's archive :cool:

[kwun]

I have a brother lived in Ina, he read Jawa Pos (correct me if I'm wrong), dated Jan 29 or 30.

you tell us if you are wrong or not... ;)

meanwhile, anybody know the website of Jawa Pos(t) and can confirm or deny the fact?

[jimbo]

The silver lining that comes out from this incident is it will increase the attention on World Badminton. Badminton news is sorely lacking in the media outside Asia. Surely western media will picked up on this incident.

The 'entertainment' value is there given the WWE-like scenario. I'm sure the news will replay this incident over and over again.

Therefore, 'What the World is Watching' is surely there during the Olympics.

I cant help but to agree with U. Perhaps it's good that badminton is under much "spotlight" since the "incident". It'd be a "WWE" if LYB (instead of ZhongBo) sitting at the coach chair and confronting LM during the heated conversation. What a scene!!! :p

[Winston_T]

Yes the last call from the line judge is totally unfair to LD. But the whole match? I don't think so. I don't think it's more unfair than CO 07 MSF.

Also, Christian Hadinata agree with LD on what? The smash was out? Or LD should throw the racket?

Hadinata : the organizer try very hard and used all of the way to make sure their player win the title.
I guess it also related with INA XD that lost to KOR XD.

[badMania]

I am wondering why ppl still brooding over the controversial call and not on Lin Dan's violence here :mad: I thought the later one is more serious :o

[azabaz_ipoh]

and miraculously, no one has gotten themselves banned... yet. :cool:

you have been very diplomatic. thank you. :) hopefully nobody will.


a comment from anti LD. every spectators, viewers and media said that it is totally unfair for LD. even Christian Hadinata agree with LD.

nobody is denying that what happened to LD is unfair. i think maybe Christian hadinata was commenting on that too. but that does not mean you could throw rackets everywhere and get away with it. :)


Hadinata : the organizer try very hard and used all of the way to make sure their player win the title.
I guess it also related with INA XD that lost to KOR XD.

yes, i believe he was referring to the bad calls and not LD's act of agression.:)

[Polar Bear]

LOL....Christian Hadinata :eek::eek::eek:??? Where's the source if I may know :rolleyes:?

I believe the only comments made by the INA squad is that the standard of linejudges in Korea is probably the worst. It doesn't mean that Christian Hadinata agreed with LD's violence :o


LD's violence??? If that is your idea of violence you have led a very very sheltered life. I don't condone what LD did and I'm no fan of China but get over it. The yellow card was approriate, end of story.

For those of you clamouring for the harshest punishment get some perspective!! You guys are acting like he stormed the Korean bench and beat the coach about the head with his racquet. As it stands the coaches, who actually did make physical contact, are the ones who should be up for a fine.

[badMania]

you tell us if you are wrong or not... ;)

meanwhile, anybody know the website of Jawa Pos(t) and can confirm or deny the fact?

Unfortunately, Jawa Pos doesn't have archives. I think Christian was merely mentioning about the standards of line judges in Korea. Nothing related to the violence, when in fact, that should be the major concern in this thread, isn't it?

We are proposing about penalty to Lin Dan, yet, ppl are still claiming that he is "innocent", when in fact, television replays already show that he DID COMMIT the violent act :mad:

[badMania]

LD's violence??? If that is your idea of violence you have led a very very sheltered life. I don't condone what LD did and I'm no fan of China but get over it. The yellow card was approriate, end of story.

For those of you clamouring for the harshest punishment get some perspective!! You guys are acting like he stormed the Korean bench and beat the coach about the head with his racquet. As it stands the coaches, who actually did make physical contact, are the ones who should be up for a fine.

LOL....I will just let the others respond to this one here :D

[Winston_T]

you tell us if you are wrong or not... ;)

meanwhile, anybody know the website of Jawa Pos(t) and can confirm or deny the fact?

u can try this:
http://www.bulutangkis.com/mod.php?mod=publisher&op=viewarticle&artid=3812

[kwun]

u can try this:
http://www.bulutangkis.com/mod.php?mod=publisher&op=viewarticle&artid=3812

can someone translate? badMania?

[azabaz_ipoh]

LD's violence??? If that is your idea of violence you have led a very very sheltered life. I don't condone what LD did and I'm no fan of China but get over it. The yellow card was approriate, end of story.

For those of you clamouring for the harshest punishment get some perspective!! You guys are acting like he stormed the Korean bench and beat the coach about the head with his racquet. As it stands the coaches, who actually did make physical contact, are the ones who should be up for a fine.

yes that is violence. i dont know how you describe violence but if someone throw something in my direction with anger that is violent. the yellow card was not sufficient. but that is your opinion and i will agree to disagree.

large fine and suspensions are harsh? we are not calling for him to be banned from the sport. the large fine will not dent his winnings before and he will surely win more after this because he is a good player. and the suspension will not cost him an olympic spot. so really, what is harsh about that? if he did storm the korean bench and beat the coach on the head with a racket however, fine and suspensions are the least of his problems because he would have been charge with assault and it would have been a police case. he would have been arrested and not be able to finish the match.


Unfortunately, Jawa Pos doesn't have archives. I think Christian was merely mentioning about the standards of line judges in Korea. Nothing related to the violence, when in fact, that should be the major concern in this thread, isn't it?

We are proposing about penalty to Lin Dan, yet, ppl are still claiming that he is "innocent", when in fact, television replays already show that he DID COMMIT the violent act :mad:

some people are justifying his violent conduct because he was treated unfairly. sad, but that's the situation. to forgive violence because live is not fair is a weird concept to me but not to others. :o

[badMania]

"Christian juga sepakat dengan tindakan Lin Dan yang mengecam tindakan wasit. ''Lin Dan saja sampai terbawa emosi. Wasit dengan segenap kemampuan berusaha untuk memenangkan pebulu tangkis tuan rumah,'' papar Christian.

Christian also agreed with Lin Dan's act of condemning the linejudges deeds. Even Lin Dan was emotional. The linejudges tried their best to let their home players win, stated Christian.

It doesn't mention anything about Christian saying Lin Dan's throwing of that racket is a correct one :cool:

[badMania]

yes that is violence. i dont know how you describe violence but if someone throw something in my direction with anger that is violent. the yellow card was not sufficient. but that is your opinion and i will agree to disagree.

large fine and suspensions are harsh? we are not calling for him to be ban from the sport. the large fine will not dent his winnings before. and the suspension will not cost him an olympic spot. so really, what is harsh about that? if he did storm the korean bench and beat the coach on the head with a racket however, fine and suspensions are the least of his problems because he would have been charge with assault and it would have been a police case. he would have been arrested and not be able to finish the match.


There you have one response. Maybe the standard of violence in the other countries are different. BUT, I think ppl living in Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia WOULD CLASSIFY the act of hurling a racket with contempt (look at Lin Dan's expression) in the direction of Li Mao, as a blatant act of violence.

Indeed, if that racket hit Li Mao or any other ppl, I fear Lin Dan might have to stay longer in Korea :o