ALL ENGLAND 2008: Day 6 - Mar 9 - FINAL

[george@chongwei]

so the winners for each categories are as follows..:

ms-chen jin

ws- tine rasmussen

md- JJS/LYD

wd- Lee/Lee

XD- zheng bo/gao ling

[huangkwokhau]

many people comment without seeing the matches....as usual suspect....some are pretending to know everything....

[jimbo]

many people comment without seeing the matches....as usual suspect....some are pretending to know everything....

Hauge, did u mean, err..., seeing = watching on TV? seeing = watching from courtside? :)

[badMania]

many people comment without seeing the matches....as usual suspect....some are pretending to know everything....

Just don't bother ;)

Even the majority of Chinese fans have a similar feeling if you read the discussions at chinabadminton.com :o

[huangkwokhau]

Hauge, did u mean, err..., seeing = watching on TV? seeing = watching from courtside? :)
:D:D no...no.... seeing or watching TV..I mean...

[jimbo]

:D:D no...no.... seeing or watching TV..I mean...

Hauge, I am not as rich as U, so I just watched on TV (14" only). So, I DID "see" the match (CJ vs LD) :p

[eaglehelang]

Just don't bother ;)

Even the majority of Chinese fans have a similar feeling if you read the discussions at chinabadminton.com :o

They cannot read Chinese mah (like me, he he).
Anyway, tommorrow we must start engine to cheer for the qualifiers of Swiss Open

[huangkwokhau]

Korea WD knows how to play CHn WD but YY/DJ are quite fast.....
I guess I am right...remind me the era of Chung Myung Hee and her other partner ( I forgot her name)

[pjswift]

:D:D no...no.... seeing or watching TV..I mean...
TV viewing cannot match courtside impressions.Next year , before PAWing, be smart and check out jamesd20 reviews. His prediction for champions based on SF performance was perfect except MS.Would have been perfect without LYB cooking.

[Maximum]

hmmm... i dun understand u guys... about the match between LD & CJ... When they played, u guys said its a fixed match, LD pretends to hav injuries, this n that... So, no difference? to u guys, play or didint play, it will be a fixed match right? so why bother to watch??? why LD cant hav injuries and LCW can? how would u noe that LCW is not acting as he's scared of losing n had to find excuses 4 the loss...

[eaglehelang]

hmmm... i dun understand u guys... about the match between LD & CJ... When they played, u guys said its a fixed match, LD pretends to hav injuries, this n that... So, no difference? to u guys, play or didint play, it will be a fixed match right? so why bother to watch??? why LD cant hav injuries and LCW can? how would u noe that LCW is not acting as he's scared of losing n had to find excuses 4 the loss...

Of course LD can be injured, read James's review of AE Finals as to the difference.

Errrr, LCw's knee injury was for 4 SS- Denmark, France, China, HK Opens, that's a long time to fake it. And when injury was used for Denmark Open Semi lost, he was said to be using it as excuse- cannot use injury reason loh. China & HK Open, the reason was bad line judging, not injury, that also not acceptable, "mentally weak". Any reason he give also seen as excuse, so no point to fake it.

If it was faked, he would have to be in cohorts with the NSC medics too since his knee in ice packs was shown on tv. ;)

[markham player]

When I "read" into this 2008 AE MSF match between LD & CJ, it seems to me that LD is trying to "tell" the rest of us that he is the real boss of the game.
Unfortunately, he is only allowed to lose, but when & how to present to the rest of the world, then it is up to LD.
Superficially, it seems to be a very hard fought "battle", a very closed game, 22-20 & 25-23, looking very good on the "book" & for those who doesn't know much about badminton but for the rest of us, LD has no choice but to "play" with the written "script" & the "ending" must be a happy one for CJ.
In this case, one more Olympic spot for China means one less spot for other country & this spot may belong to LYI or TH etc.
Is it fair? Well, this, I don't know.
Have a nice day!

[badMania]

When I "read" into this 2008 AE MSF match between LD & CJ, it seems to me that LD is trying to "tell" the rest of us that he is the real boss of the game.
Unfortunately, he is only allowed to lose, but when & how to present to the rest of the world, then it is up to LD.

Yup...that was what many of us hd in mind, including Chinese fans as well ;)

Lin Dan just simply "didn't give face" to Chen Jin by losing by "such a narrow margin"....which of course confirmed his superiority to ALL of us. Despite the fact that he "was injured", he could still lose only narrowly. That was also one reason Chen Jin did not celebrate much after the victory. He knew who's the boss really....and he was much dependent on the boss to "lose" to him :cool:

[george@chongwei]

for those of u who missed the final of the all engalnd 2008, astro supersport, channel 811 is showing the mixed double now!

[Louisa]

for those of u who missed the final of the all engalnd 2008, astro supersport, channel 811 is showing the mixed double now!
George, does that mean i still have chance to watch WD final when i reach home around 6pm later?

[george@chongwei]

George, does that mean i still have chance to watch WD final when i reach home around 6pm later?
yes..maybe u will have a chance to watch the wd match..
but remember, Drive Carefully.:)...:p

[Louisa]

yes..maybe u will have a chance to watch the wd match..
but remember, Drive Carefully.:)...:p
hahahaha, i will, i m not the speedy Ferrari little Kitten...and, thanks for the info:D

[Winston_T]

When I "read" into this 2008 AE MSF match between LD & CJ, it seems to me that LD is trying to "tell" the rest of us that he is the real boss of the game.
Unfortunately, he is only allowed to lose, but when & how to present to the rest of the world, then it is up to LD.
Superficially, it seems to be a very hard fought "battle", a very closed game, 22-20 & 25-23, looking very good on the "book" & for those who doesn't know much about badminton but for the rest of us, LD has no choice but to "play" with the written "script" & the "ending" must be a happy one for CJ.
In this case, one more Olympic spot for China means one less spot for other country & this spot may belong to LYI or TH etc.
Is it fair? Well, this, I don't know.
Have a nice day!

biased.
if LYB wants to fixed the match, he can start it from BCL vs LD, whereas CJ has already enter the final.
BCL & CJ needs more points to qualify to OG than LD.
CJ win bcoz he is the better player compare to LD, but a credit should give to LD for his effort.

[Winston_T]

Yup...that was what many of us hd in mind, including Chinese fans as well ;)

Lin Dan just simply "didn't give face" to Chen Jin by losing by "such a narrow margin"....which of course confirmed his superiority to ALL of us. Despite the fact that he "was injured", he could still lose only narrowly. That was also one reason Chen Jin did not celebrate much after the victory. He knew who's the boss really....and he was much dependent on the boss to "lose" to him :cool:

this ppl always biased. always suspect there was a match fixing in Chn vs Chn match.
CJ win bcoz he is the best in AE 08.
LD got injured, and it is normal in badminton

BCL needs more points so he can still survive in top 4, or he would say goodbye to OG. why LYB didn't fixed BCL vs LD match in SF?

[Winston_T]

China ladies' form is falling....The Great wall has been broken......

I'm still disappointed with CHN's performance in this AE.
but I'm still happy bcoz our rival (Mas & Ina) can't get a single title:D

[huangkwokhau]

I'm still disappointed with CHN's performance in this AE.
but I'm still happy bcoz our rival (Mas & Ina) can't get a single title:D
Thats bias.............as usual.......

[jamesd20]

BCL needs more points so he can still survive in top 4, or he would say goodbye to OG. why LYB didn't fixed BCL vs LD match in SF?

To protect his Ranking Bao Should Be Fine. In AE07 Bao Reached Semi, so He matched this this Year, and in SO He Didn't do so well, so as long as he reached QF or Better, BCL should have improve on Last years performances.

CJ Had to Reach SF to Match Last Years AE Performance, and Win SO to match this.

Besides some people believe the conspiracy WO theories and others don't plaease accept this.

[huangkwokhau]

To protect his Ranking Bao Should Be Fine. In AE07 Bao Reached Semi, so He matched this this Year, and in SO He Didn't do so well, so as long as he reached QF or Better, BCL should have improve on Last years performances.

CJ Had to Reach SF to Match Last Years AE Performance, and Win SO to match this.

Besides some people believe the conspiracy WO theories and others don't plaease accept this.
be careful...he would say that you are bias....:D:D:D.this guy popping up and just attack everybody since he joined at day 1....

[bananakid]

Chen Jin was in form when playing against LCW, and beat him fair square.

On the other hand, Chen Jin in form or not, was not enough to beat Lin Dan in the final... This is my opinion, and here is why:

Okay... I think almost everyone know that I am a big fan of Lin Dan, Chen Jin, and Peter Gade(in the MS department), and I have got to say that after I watch the entire match more than once, there are more than several spots that completely showed that Lin Dan(hurt or not) gave away points to Chen Jin and made sure he won that match.

Just 1 quick example(2nd set at LD23-22CJ), Lin Dan all of a sudden would start hopping like a cripple when moving back while the entire match he had not done so(even at some point of the match after a last second huge launch that barely gets to the shuttle, which should put the most pressure on an injured knee), then he slowly move to back to base, and watch CJ's smash without any intention to try to save it whatsoever, to ensure he didn't win the set.

Let's not kid ourselves. Lin Dan basically read Chen Jin like a book, and as soon as Lin Dan put some effort into winning a point, he did it(at least 80% of the time).

The whole match was like Lin Dan trying to help Chen Jin develop that needed ingredient for a powerful attack, and help him to understand how to make better shot selection.

Hurt or not, Lin Dan could have beaten Chen Jin fair square if the situation allowed him.


However, another way to look at this may be:

1. The actual MS final was the match between Chen Jin and Lee Chong Wei.

2. The winner of that match(Chen Jin) received an additional gift which was an exhibition match with the defending champion(Lin Dan) the next day to show case their skill to the audience.:D

[huangkwokhau]

Chen Jin was in form when playing against LCW, and beat him fair square.

On the other hand, Chen Jin in form or not, was not enough to beat Lin Dan in the final... This is my opinion, and here is why:

Okay... I think almost everyone know that I am a big fan of Lin Dan, Chen Jin, and Peter Gade(in the MS department), and I have got to say that after I watch the entire match more than once, there are more than several spots that completely showed that Lin Dan(hurt or not) gave away points to Chen Jin and made sure he won that match.

Just 1 quick example(2nd set at LD23-22CJ), Lin Dan all of a sudden would start hopping like a cripple when moving back while the entire match he had not done so(even at some point of the match after a last second huge launch that barely gets to the shuttle, which should put the most pressure on an injured knee), then he slowly move to back to base, and watch CJ's smash without any intention to try to save it whatsoever, to ensure he didn't win the set.

Let's not kid ourselves. Lin Dan basically read Chen Jin like a book, and as soon as Lin Dan put some effort into winning a point, he did it(at least 80% of the time).

The whole match was like Lin Dan trying to help Chen Jin develop that needed ingredient for a powerful attack, and help him to understand how to make better shot selection.

Hurt or not, Lin Dan could have beaten Chen Jin fair square if the situation allowed him.


However, another way to look at this may be:

1. The actual MS final was the match between Chen Jin and Lee Chong Wei.

2. The winner of that match(Chen Jin) received an additional gift which was an exhibition match with the defending champion(Lin Dan) the next day to show case their skill to the audience.:D

Very good......... we could see easily that if LD wanted to win, he would finish CJ comfortably....
You should see BCL vs CY as well....it is too obvious....

[bananakid]

Very good......... we could see easily that if LD wanted to win, he would finish CJ comfortably....
You should see BCL vs CY as well....it is too obvious....

Hey, there is a difference between a realistic fan and a biased fan, you know.
I can not be blind sided due to my own personal preference. As much as I like to say that the match was not fixed, but unless they improved on the "acting", it is hard for me to be biased.:p

Until badminton becomes an individual based sport, these things will never stop.:crying:

Not China's fault, that they are "GIVEN" these opportunities by BWF and all the other badminton players(for being not good enough to stop them).:rolleyes:

[huangkwokhau]

Hey, there is a difference between a realistic fan and a biased fan, you know.
I can not be blind sided due to my own personal preference. As much as I like to say that the match was not fixed, but unless they improved on the "acting", it is hard for me to be biased.:p

Until badminton becomes an individual based sport, these things will never stop.:crying:

Not China's fault, that they are "GIVEN" these opportunities by BWF and all the other badminton players(for being not good enough to stop them).:rolleyes:
Thats correct.!!....as long as individual player could not register by themselves ( like tennis) and still depends on their federation to register them.....it is hard to see badminton for being an individual sport....:(:(

[bananakid]

Based on current form, I have got to say Lin Dan will be the clear favorite of winning the Swiss open if he is injury-free.

Lin Dan is so all-around right now, that it is scary.

In the AE final, he showcased how dominant he could be in offensive, and how solid his defense could be as well. His reading of the game was just unreal.

Lin Dan's QF match against Kenneth was even more scary, as he was literally toying with Kenneth, and still beat him comfortably. His game play has more variety now, and still improving.

He was also smart enough to not attack without a purpose against a defensive player like Kenneth. He moved Kenneth around the court like an amateur, then finished him off or let him finish off himself... amazing.:cool: Yet, fans will start telling me that Kenneth is no LCW, or Taufik... yes, I know that, too and it's been taken into consideration as well.:rolleyes:

With this form, I seriously doubt anyone can defeat him IF ALL circumstances are fair and square, and that includes Taufik, LCW, Gade, and LHI.

[ye333]

Watch AE2006 LD vs. Jonassen. LD toyed Jonassen just like this time. The key is Jonassen is soooo much slower than LD. When you are like twice as fast as your opponent, how not to toy him? :D


Based on current form, I have got to say Lin Dan will be the clear favorite of winning the Swiss open if he is injury-free.

Lin Dan is so all-around right now, that it is scary.

In the AE final, he showcased how dominant he could be in offensive, and how solid his defense could be as well. His reading of the game was just unreal.

Lin Dan's QF match against Kenneth was even more scary, as he was literally toying with Kenneth, and still beat him comfortably. His game play has more variety now, and still improving.

He was also smart enough to not attack without a purpose against a defensive player like Kenneth. He moved Kenneth around the court like an amateur, then finished him off or let him finish off himself... amazing.:cool: Yet, fans will start telling me that Kenneth is no LCW, or Taufik... yes, I know that, too and it's been taken into consideration as well.:rolleyes:

With this form, I seriously doubt anyone can defeat him IF ALL circumstances are fair and square, and that includes Taufik, LCW, Gade, and LHI.

[markham player]

Lately, I have been accused of being biased against team China.
As a matter of fact, I'm a full supporter of team China from day 1. I cheer for them & wish them well each time they play. They work so hard everyday & dedicate their whole lifes to earn fames for their country & I respect that.

Recently, a reporter gave interview to LYB right after the 2008 AE by mentioning this "hypothetical" fixed game theory for him to clarify. He ,instead, answered only by saying that it was a "good" game & spectators liked it, without giving a yes & no answer. This, I can understand why.
Currently, LD has 81215 Olympic points & is seeded #1, followed by LCW with 80783, BCL has 66390, CJ has 60280, Jonassen has 58726, Sony has 56762, PG has 55974 & TH has 55088. CJ's spot is quite safe if he plays well in Swiss Open, i.e. at least into 1/4's.
On the contrary, imagine this scenario of LD won the AE title, CJ would have been only 154 points above that of Jonassen's, one small "slip", he would have to kiss his 2008 Olympic good-bye. In Swiss Open main round tomorrow, CJ has to play LYI & LCW consecutively to reach to semi's & it is no that easy & his #4 position would not have been that optimistic.
Right now, he is 1554 points more than that of Jonassen's & is in a much safer position, therefore, if I were LYB, I would have ordered this fixed game too.
I'm not here to judge , actually, I'm here just want to point out & re-affirm you that it was a fixed game.
Have a nice day!

[jimbo]

Lately, I have been accused of being biased against team China.
As a matter of fact, I'm a full supporter of team China from day 1. I cheer for them & wish them well each time they play. They work so hard everyday & dedicate their whole lifes to earn fames for their country & I respect that.

Recently, a reporter gave interview to LYB right after the 2008 AE by mentioning this "hypothetical" fixed game theory for him to clarify. He ,instead, answered only by saying that it was a "good" game & spectators liked it, without giving a yes & no answer. This, I can understand why.
Currently, LD has 81215 Olympic points & is seeded #1, followed by LCW with 80783, BCL has 66390, CJ has 60280, Jonassen has 58726, Sony has 56762, PG has 55974 & TH has 55088. CJ's spot is quite safe if he plays well in Swiss Open, i.e. at least into 1/4's.
On the contrary, imagine this scenario of LD won the AE title, CJ would have been only 154 points above that of Jonassen's, one small "slip", he would have to kiss his 2008 Olympic good-bye. In Swiss Open main round tomorrow, CJ has to play LYI & LCW consecutively to reach to semi's & it is no that easy & his #4 position would not have been that optimistic.
Right now, he is 1554 points more than that of Jonassen's & is in a much safer position, therefore, if I were LYB, I would have ordered this fixed game too.
I'm not here to judge , actually, I'm here just want to point out & re-affirm you that it was a fixed game.
Have a nice day!

Great analysis, but I thought we all knew it, didnt we? :p

[badMania]

Great analysis, but I thought we all knew it, didnt we? :p

Well, we knew it, but not some ppl who insisted on black-and-white solid proof that China INDEED fixed the game, no matter how strong the cases were to audiences like us ;)

[cooler]

personally i think it's rather pointless to prove it right either way, fix or not because the it's was an all chinia MS final anyway. What lyb got out of 08 AE was that LHI can be beaten by his 4th stringer and LCW was beaten by his 3rd stringer. As lyb had said, the audience seem to enjoyed the final and saw what LD can do even with a 'knee pain'. If some think LD could had played 100%, well, maybe the match will be short like the KJ match. Other players might see the AE title as a momumental achievement but for LD, only a OG gold would please him now.

[pjswift]

personally i think it's rather pointless to prove it right either way, fix or not because the it's was an all chinia MS final anyway. What lyb got out of 08 AE was that LHI can be beaten by his 4th stringer and LCW was beaten by his 3rd stringer. As lyb had said, the audience seem to enjoyed the final and saw what LD can do even with a 'knee pain'. If some think LD could had played 100%, well, maybe the match will be short like the KJ match. Other players might see the AE title as a momumental achievement but for LD, only a OG gold would please him now.
The audience enjoyed the MSF because the Brits can be fooled unlike the French and are known for their politeness in tolerating such ridicule.

[Louisa]

We all have a weighing machine in our hearts...so, this will be a never ending story, unless LD or LYB tell the truth....

Camon, lets enjoy Swiss Open now, what done is done. Change whatever u can, accept whatever u can't change...

PEACE!!!:D:p;)

[Winston_T]

Poor CJ that get discounted for winning the All England title by the bias fans again. Doesn't matter if he win by a big margin or small but people still criticize China for match fixing. Oh well, did he beat LCW fair and sqaure? So can't he beat LD and not to mention it was a close game.

When LCW and TH fail to deliver the fans has lot of excuse for them whether they are not trying or they are tried. And when LD fail then it must be the evil LYB doing something bad.

Come on, if your countryman fail to enter to the final, blame your players, but don't blame China for the domination.

LYB is not evil, but the people who discount the winner's effort.

Shame on the bias ppl.


so many bias ppl in this forum, especially the 2 from HK

[Winston_T]

Watch AE2006 LD vs. Jonassen. LD toyed Jonassen just like this time. The key is Jonassen is soooo much slower than LD. When you are like twice as fast as your opponent, how not to toy him? :D

KJ is so much slower than LD, or LD was faster 2 -3 times than any other MS player?

[Winston_T]

So LD can't really be injured and only LCW can? Funny that you're telling me that you're open minded and not bias sometimes ago when you pin-point the Chinese team every single time.

according to badmania, he is a chinese fan. but I never found his post that praise the Chn players. he always praise TH and or LCW

[huangkwokhau]

so many bias ppl in this forum, especially the 2 from HK
Especially YOU...........always bias.....:cool::cool: but have Indonesian brother?? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Winston_T]

So far in the first 3 SS, China had collected 6 titles ( 2 each from each SS)...LYB has the homework to do now.....as compare to last year, China had 11 titles ( 3 in MAS,4 in KOR and 4 in AE)

CHN players, it's time for extreme training

[Winston_T]

you conspiracists are full of it. If LD was faking it, why did he still get his shots with his backhand? havent u notice LD was using backhand 2 to 3 times more often than normal in set 2? Of course he isnt playing 100%, because he can't and won't. Why risk compounding the injury going into the OG? At least he tried getting all the shots and not walking out or purposely hit shuttle into the net like TH. If lcw or TH was watching, they should be worried because today i saw new repertoire of play that i havent seen from LD before. LD lost marginally to CJ with only 60% of his max speed, and CJ can beat LCW convincingly. Need i say more?

LD has successfully improve his skills in several departments.

[Winston_T]

Especially YOU...........always bias.....:cool::cool: but have Indonesian brother?? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

which of my post that can be cathegorized as bias?

and u always targetted CHN players to bash

[huangkwokhau]

which of my post that can be cathegorized as bias?

and u always targetted CHN players to bash
Show me that I bash CHN players......just look at your posts always make fun of INA and thrash INA players......you are chinese Indonesian with last name...Tandiono.....show respect as your brother is INDONESIAN as well as your auntie :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[shawn30_k]

this ppl always biased. always suspect there was a match fixing in Chn vs Chn match.
CJ win bcoz he is the best in AE 08.
LD got injured, and it is normal in badminton

BCL needs more points so he can still survive in top 4, or he would say goodbye to OG. why LYB didn't fixed BCL vs LD match in SF?

MATCHFIXING!!!!!!

[badMania]

according to badmania, he is a chinese fan. but I never found his post that praise the Chn players. he always praise TH and or LCW

U can ask ye333 personally :p
He's a Chinese fan.....:D

[badMania]

And psst...a Chinese fan doesn't necessarily has to praise the players all the time ;) ye333 has written a long comments on Lin Dan. I think he's right....someone here to take some logic course as he couldn't differentiate between praise and biased comments :o

Just some snippets from ye333's comments in the other thread:
3. Agree. LD is the world's best "shots reader". And as I said many times before, that's why his teammates usually have no chance when playing him. (With CH the only exception).

5. Agree. LD's defence is very strong, and the main reason of that is his ability to read his opponents. If you know what kind of shot your opponent is gonna play, defence becomes much easier.

[jamesd20]

This discussion is about the matches, and it has been reduced to a discussion about the fans, and how the fans supprt their team.

Just because people are of a particular nationality doesn't mean they must support their own players more than any other.

Please respect each other, each others opinions & their way of supporting their favourite players.