Interesting Chinese media article

[ms142]

http://badmintoncn.com/News/c/200803/20080315091407.html

For those who don't read Chinese, the article indicates that a) Many fans in China are complaining about LYB's match-fixing practices (in AE and possibly Swiss open), and b) LYB has openly admitted to match-fixing in the past, but felt that it can't be helped due to the priorities in China. The article, which supposedly comes from a Chinese newspaper, is quite critical of this.

I don't mean to provoke more debates on this; I'm just pleased that there is media pressure in China for change.

[badMania]

I have read that yesterday night and it all points out to the main objective of Team China: to win 3 to 5 Olympics Gold in Beijing.

Essentially, Li Yongbo claimed that it's all for the greater good of China....to have a Group Advantage that will ease their way for a Gold Medal.

[phaarix]

The greater good of China (although ironically China doesn't sound too happy about it apparently?)... by MANIPULATING the Olympic qualifications! It really does disgust me, and I don't know how they're allowed to get away with it. I hope this article has some effect. It's not good at all and it just has to stop... To me it's even more of an issue than biased line calls.

[sjoe]

I have read that yesterday night and it all points out to the main objective of Team China: to win 3 to 5 Olympics Gold in Beijing.

Essentially, Li Yongbo claimed that it's all for the greater good of China....to have a Group Advantage that will ease their way for a Gold Medal.

I think more "it's all for the greater good for him...." , I don't know what kind of role model that he want himself to be seen. These young players will one day become a man and woman.
Guess he will soon learn that it will back fire on him. If it's happen during the Olympic where Chinese feel that this is no more tolerable and showing their disgust then it could be very dramatic.

[chibe_K]

Yeah rite...."for the greater good of China". How cheap and convenient it is to use that as an excuse. If that is the case, every coach can say the same thing "for the greater good of..." some bs and to fix any match in sports.

[sumbadder]

you guys talk like LYB is fixing matches because he's some evil villain with a vendetta against the badminton world that he's trying to fulfill. The fact is, he is getting pressure from his higher-ups to obtain as many golds as possible so that in the end, China comes out the huge winner at OG 08 instead of the US.

[Fan888]

What is his motive for match-fixing? I can see the CJ-vs-LD match at AE was little suspicious but CJ was playing great. Other than that, what else could he and did he do? Maybe I don't follow all the inside info here.

As for the Olympics, winning 3 to 5 Gold Medals are good goal for him and the team. Nothing wrong with that as long as he doesn't go out of his way and cheat as the home team.

[ms142]

What is his motive for match-fixing? I can see the CJ-vs-LD match at AE was little suspicious but CJ was playing great. Other than that, what else could he and did he do? Maybe I don't follow all the inside info here.

As for the Olympics, winning 3 to 5 Gold Medals are good goal for him and the team. Nothing wrong with that as long as he doesn't go out of his way and cheat as the home team.

For people who haven't read the Olympic qualifier rules: my understanding is that normally a country can send at most 2 players for an event. In China's case, it'd be LD and BCL. However, the rule says that if a country has more than 2 players in the TOP 4, than it can send 3 players. CJ is ranked no.4, and just barely so, hence the effort to make sure that he can play in the OG.

[Angelou]

For people who haven't read the Olympic qualifier rules: my understanding is that normally a country can send at most 2 players for an event. In China's case, it'd be LD and BCL. However, the rule says that if a country has more than 2 players in the TOP 4, than it can send 3 players. CJ is ranked no.4, and just barely so, hence the effort to make sure that he can play in the OG.


I think that this is important. If you can have 3 players in the OG rather than 2, then why not? To the Chinese team, their goal is the Olympics. The All England ranks below that and along with promoting badminton which is near the bottom of the list. There are many ways to see this, but I don't think that what they've done is right or wrong. It's right for the Chinese team, but wrong for the fans. And so who's right and who's wrong? If match fixing was really affecting the game, then perhaps this rule of the top 4 shouldn't exist. In which case, would this be the Chinese fault? or would it be the BWF/OG fault? And so, in my opinion, I don't believe that LYB should receive the devil's award for match fixing. but it is certainly something to frown upon.

[robin7]

http://badmintoncn.com/News/c/200803/20080315091407.html
The article mentions about how Ye Zhaoying and Zhou Min became victims due to the "match-fixing". I have heard of Ye's case but I'm not aware of Zhou's.

[Fan888]

The article mentions about how Ye Zhaoying and Zhou Min became victims due to the "match-fixing". I have heard of Ye's case but I'm not aware of Zhou's.

Can you elaborate on either case, whatever you know about it?

[koo_fan]

I dont want badminton will be boring like how ferrari did to F1 for the past few years.

match-fixing is something unacceptable.It is not sport at all.
I want china to win over the us is olympic.But in a fair play.
N if the rules have stated that u can send 3 players instead of the usual 2 if u have more than 2 players ranked 1-4.I got no problem with china sending chen jin then.ur luck maybe.

But please,consider how other badminton powerhouses feel.We are talking about our beloved sport,badminton.Please keep the self-seeking attitude aside.We got more important work to do.

[robin7]

Can you elaborate on either case, whatever you know about it?
It has been debated over and over again.
Read this http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49635

[george@chongwei]

[quote=koo_fan;823271]I dont want badminton will be boring like how ferrari did to F1 for the past few years.

match-fixing is something unacceptable.It is not sport at all.
[quote]
u dont want but the bookies wants to fix the game:p:)
so we(ordinary ppl) cant do anything about it...:rolleyes::(
we juz can at here debating non stop..:D

[koo_fan]

When they knew majority are against the rule.Second thought may happen.
not a huge impact but it is an impact.
Wait until u are in BWF.Only then will response?

Civilians are power.

[luyi80]

LYB thinks he is the GOD of the Badminton World, who ruins the world of badminton with "strategic" match fixing......for the sake of his country, for the sake of Olympic......But, to me, is for his own GOOD! :mad:

Ppl r getting bored of this scenario, and our police of Badminton World (IBF) seems to be ignored all these, as a fan, what can we do?:(

Vching, we need another petition!!!:mad:

[luyi80]

Can you elaborate on either case, whatever you know about it?
Not sure about YZY, but for ZM, she was dropped to the province team during 2006, since then, she was no longer a national player. Same case occured to Wang Chen years ago...

[Smichz]

like i said before..all that LYB care is to win gold medals..at all costs!!China Badminton Associatons might be proud to have him as a head coach..he leads chinese badminton to the top level..but when he uses everything to win,that brings more critics from both public n media.

[super__gao]

you guys talk like LYB is fixing matches because he's some evil villain with a vendetta against the badminton world that he's trying to fulfill. The fact is, he is getting pressure from his higher-ups to obtain as many golds as possible so that in the end, China comes out the huge winner at OG 08 instead of the US.

i agree. i really believe that there is probably some powerful people putting pressure on LYB to win as many medals as possible, at any cost. and not for the greater good of himself or his players but for the country in general. If China can win 5 gold medals and a whole bunch of silver and bronze in badminton, that is 5 gold medals + more taken away from the United States (who seem to be their biggest medal competitor for 2008). I think that if China doesn't win more medals than the US come august, then i think that they might be a little embarrassed. In the grand scheme of things LYB is just a small pawn in the whole game.
personally, i don't really think we can blame LYB, he is probably taking orders. like come on, he is human too. why wouldn't the head coach of the chinese national badminton team want to see his best players play their best against each other in the final of the all england championships??!?!?! doesn't make sense, something is up.

[ye333]

Of course LYB is not solely responsible. But I don't think he is only passively "taking orders" either. He likes to boast about his team, saying his players are the world's best in every event and blah blah. This definitely encourage the officials to put more pressure on him -- since his players are so strong and the previous losses are due to things like bad wind, bad line judge, etc., it's reasonable to require him to bring home 5 golds since the stadium in OG 08 is perfect and there cannot be any line judge problems.


i agree. i really believe that there is probably some powerful people putting pressure on LYB to win as many medals as possible, at any cost. and not for the greater good of himself or his players but for the country in general. If China can win 5 gold medals and a whole bunch of silver and bronze in badminton, that is 5 gold medals + more taken away from the United States (who seem to be their biggest medal competitor for 2008). I think that if China doesn't win more medals than the US come august, then i think that they might be a little embarrassed. In the grand scheme of things LYB is just a small pawn in the whole game.
personally, i don't really think we can blame LYB, he is probably taking orders. like come on, he is human too. why wouldn't the head coach of the chinese national badminton team want to see his best players play their best against each other in the final of the all england championships??!?!?! doesn't make sense, something is up.

[sumbadder]

Of course LYB is not solely responsible. But I don't think he is only passively "taking orders" either. He likes to boast about his team, saying his players are the world's best in every event and blah blah. This definitely encourage the officials to put more pressure on him -- since his players are so strong and the previous losses are due to things like bad wind, bad line judge, etc., it's reasonable to require him to bring home 5 golds since the stadium in OG 08 is perfect and there cannot be any line judge problems.
I think everyone is still missing the point: LYB's JOB is to be the head coach of team China and produce results. As concerned members of the badminton community we want to see what's best for the sport, but he is doing his job which is not to promote the sport but to bring in the golds. Obviously as fans we don't want to see things run like a business but the sports industry is an industry and to expect that people won't run it as such is completely absurd.

[ye333]

A business man's job is to make money. If one business man told his supervisor he can make one million in a year but in fact he can only guarantee 900,000, does that mean he should rob or cheat to get the remaining 100,000 and ppl should not criticize him? I don't think so.

In fact, it's interesting to compare LYB's comments and TSF's comments when LD lost. After LD lost to PSH, TSF (in charge of LD at that time. LYB asked him to help) commented that LD is in form, but he lost because PSH played very well. Did we ever hear LYB say similar things? No. He is even reluctant to admit that his players are not in form. Most of the times it's the stadium or audience or wind blahblah.

So LYB wants ppl to view his team as invincible. Thus it's only reasonable that his team is indeed required to be invincible and bring 5 golds home.


I think everyone is still missing the point: LYB's JOB is to be the head coach of team China and produce results. As concerned members of the badminton community we want to see what's best for the sport, but he is doing his job which is not to promote the sport but to bring in the golds. Obviously as fans we don't want to see things run like a business but the sports industry is an industry and to expect that people won't run it as such is completely absurd.

[cooler]

A business man's job is to make money. If one business man told his supervisor he can make one million in a year but in fact he can only guarantee 900,000, does that mean he should rob or cheat to get the remaining 100,000 and ppl should not criticize him? I don't think so.
i think u r quite naive in this regard. There are plenty of plenty of plenty robbing going on in the business world. You just dont hear about them, or better yet, you and even pro businessman are completely blind to them. A current example: subprime mess. This wasn't an accident. Robbing start from the gullibe home buyers and all the way up to the blind CEO/CFO's. After that, the leaders, the ones u voted in, (bush, Ben Bernanke) prints money and drop interest rates, then bail outs from the gov't. Where do those monies come from? the innocents people through increase taxes and your worthless US bucks.

[cooler]

Yeah rite...."for the greater good of China". How cheap and convenient it is to use that as an excuse. If that is the case, every coach can say the same thing "for the greater good of..." some bs and to fix any match in sports.
we can't be sure of that. Other coaches dont have the line up of good players like lyb have to work with. In term of tournament tactic, it is fair game IMO. In term of enjoyment to the fans, it is not fair. That is why hard for BWF to stop this so call fixing. It is very difficult to write rules to stop game fixing. I will stop here.

[taneepak]

Maybe LYB is a strategist, not an entertainer. He is more of a leader than a popular hero, and in that role of course he has made many enemies. But at the end of the day, what matters is the silverware (gold medals and honour) you bring to your country.

[Fan888]

It seems to me that LYB is looking out for the best interest of his country and his team over the spirit of the Olympics, the badminton world, and complete fairness to other players. I am not saying that is right, but at least, I can understand why he does what he does.

[sjoe]

we can't be sure of that. Other coaches dont have the line up of good players like lyb have to work with. In term of tournament tactic, it is fair game IMO. In term of enjoyment to the fans, it is not fair. That is why hard for BWF to stop this so call fixing. It is very difficult to write rules to stop game fixing. I will stop here.

I don't know if you can say it as "fair game". Justified doesn't mean is fair vice versa. It may be fair and justify for someone but not other. Standard value of conscience is the thing that we all have to up hold. Although it can be different for each group of people. But in this case, I belief that everyone agree it is not right. May be justified for some.
The word match fixing itself has a lot to say. Of course is hard to stop unless everyone has the same standard value of what is right and wrong.
In the case of what LYB (not sure is him ), everyone know it is wrong in some degree. But and if are the reasons for justifying the deed.
In my opinion, someone has forgot that it is entertainment. In LYB case, he is not saving the country from any disaster or shame by doing so but in contrary he might do damage to the nation image.

[phaarix]

I tend to respect countries over fair play than their medal collection. If it comes along with a bad image (and it does), I hardly think it's doing much for China. It's also completely unfair to the players in China. Either they have to simply give up a tournament without a fight. A totally wasted opportunity... Or they get an easy win. And if that win is in the finals, I hardly think they'll look back at that tournament and think "I really did deserve that gold!".

It's like "professional wrestling" (whatever it's called). Some of the matches are just an act. Who would want to win a tournament in such a situation if it's really no different than being the so called "heavyweight champion of the world!!"... (if you ignore the previous matches of course :)).

[sjoe]

i think u r quite naive in this regard. There are plenty of plenty of plenty robbing going on in the business world. You just dont hear about them, or better yet, you and even pro businessman are completely blind to them. A current example: subprime mess. This wasn't an accident. Robbing start from the gullibe home buyers and all the way up to the blind CEO/CFO's. After that, the leaders, the ones u voted in, (bush, Ben Bernanke) prints money and drop interest rates, then bail outs from the gov't. Where do those monies come from? the innocents people through increase taxes and your worthless US bucks.

May be that's why, I have sympathy with the concept of Socialism which I still very naive in.

[ye333]

Please read my post again. Do you think ppl should not criticize them? My point is, you cannot say, I have such pressure blahblah and then walk away critic-free with the money.

What I am against is this: some ppl said because LYB has such pressure therefore we as badminton fans should not criticize what he did.


i think u r quite naive in this regard. There are plenty of plenty of plenty robbing going on in the business world. You just dont hear about them, or better yet, you and even pro businessman are completely blind to them. A current example: subprime mess. This wasn't an accident. Robbing start from the gullibe home buyers and all the way up to the blind CEO/CFO's. After that, the leaders, the ones u voted in, (bush, Ben Bernanke) prints money and drop interest rates, then bail outs from the gov't. Where do those monies come from? the innocents people through increase taxes and your worthless US bucks.

[Loopy]

Well, there is a high probability China will get most of the gold medals.
Reasons:
1) LYB and match fixing
2) Beijing and local line judges.... unless there will be independent line judges...

[ctjcad]

...
It's like "professional wrestling" (whatever it's called). Some of the matches are just an act. Who would want to win a tournament in such a situation if it's really no different than being the so called "heavyweight champion of the world!!"... (if you ignore the previous matches of course :)).
..actually it's all an "act", none real, yet they make it seems so real. All shows have been "fixed", pre-planned and pre-arranged. And, in spite of it all, people are still watching and shelling out monies to watch them without any complaints.

A bit different than in badminton. When there are some "match fixing issues/complaints/suspicions", in any badminton matches, people will come, debate even condemn whether it's ethical or sportsmanlike to do so or not?..:p

[cooler]

Well, there is a high probability China will get most of the gold medals.
Reasons:
1) LYB and match fixing
2) Beijing and local line judges.... unless there will be independent line judges...

i see it opposite.
If LYB is successful in his alleged 'fixing' results from the SS, and got his OG seeding wish order, there is low incentive to fix the games in the OG. If lyb can influence the line judges and playing around with match fixing at the OG, lyb wont be doing his alleged diry deeds in the SS. Again, the joe pubic usually guess wrong of what is gonna to happen

[ye333]

The incentive is always there... Until China secure the Gold. In particular note that it's not possible for China to fill all 4 spots in SF.

Just recall what happened in WS in both 00 and 04 OGs.


i see it opposite.
If LYB is successful in his alleged 'fixing' results from the SS, and got his OG seeding wish order, there is low incentive to fix the games in the OG. If lyb can influence the line judges and playing around with match fixing at the OG, lyb wont be doing his alleged diry deeds in the SS. Again, the joe pubic usually guess wrong of what is gonna to happen

[cooler]

The incentive is always there... Until China secure the Gold. In particular note that it's not possible for China to fill all 4 spots in SF.

Just recall what happened in WS in both 00 and 04 OGs.

go complain to the IOC for fixing the OG qualifying entries.:rolleyes:

chen yu will likely not play in the OG because of 3 maximum rule.
chun yu is a dark horse candidate, has nothing to lose if he get to play.
he has no pressure, no expectation. He can do serious damage to his highly pressured opponents.He can serve china by wiping out one or more of TH, LHI, PG, soni, etc No need for LYB to fix anything. LCW will have to face CJ, and/or BCL and/or LD.

[ye333]

??? Why should I complain?

In fact I would like to propose a quota of 1 player/pair per event for each country. We can compare with other sports. Can US send 5 teams to the basketball event? No. Can Brazil send 2 teams to the Soccer event? Again, no. Since OG is a country-based (more accurately, association-based) event, it should be reasonable to let every country be represented by its strongest player.

With the above quota, there is simply no reason to do match fixing, before OG or in OG.

Unfortunately, badminton needs OG to promote this sport and there is no way my idea will be implemented. :D


go complain to the IOC for fixing the OG qualifying entries.:rolleyes:

chen yu will likely not play in the OG because of 3 maximum rule.
chun yu is a dark horse candidate, has nothing to lose if he get to play.
he has no pressure, no expectation. He can do serious damage to his highly pressured opponents.He can serve china by wiping out one or more of TH, LHI, PG, soni, etc No need for LYB to fix anything. LCW will have to face CJ, and/or BCL and/or LD.

[cooler]

??? Why should I complain?

In fact I would like to propose a quota of 1 player/pair per event for each country. We can compare with other sports. Can US send 5 teams to the basketball event? No. Can Brazil send 2 teams to the Soccer event? Again, no. Since OG is a country-based (more accurately, association-based) event, it should be reasonable to let every country be represented by its strongest player.

With the above quota, there is simply no reason to do match fixing, before OG or in OG.

Unfortunately, badminton needs OG to promote this sport and there is no way my idea will be implemented. :DOh.. you're worst than IOC, u want to fix the OG even more LOL

[cooler]

OG is over hyped but i can't stop that.
On a technical merit, an Open type tournament in neutral countries is the best measure of who are the best. ex AE, SWISS, FRENCH OPENS.

TH has no titles from these opens,
LCW has one (french)
LD, well, has many...(with spare to donates to his countrymen as well)

TH has OG, WC and AG titles. Why? coz these games followed fix format

[ye333]

I want badminton to be treated the same as those "big" sports -- soccer, basketball, ... :D


Oh.. you're worst than IOC, u want to fix the OG even more LOL

[ye333]

I have to say this is nonsense. :D


TH has OG, WC and AG titles. Why? coz these games followed fix format

[niepan]

http://badmintoncn.com/News/c/200803/20080315091407.html

For those who don't read Chinese, the article indicates that a) Many fans in China are complaining about LYB's match-fixing practices (in AE and possibly Swiss open), and b) LYB has openly admitted to match-fixing in the past, but felt that it can't be helped due to the priorities in China. The article, which supposedly comes from a Chinese newspaper, is quite critical of this.

I don't mean to provoke more debates on this; I'm just pleased that there is media pressure in China for change.
At least as far as I know, ever since 2000, there was such voice.

[Polar Bear]

I want badminton to be treated the same as those "big" sports -- soccer, basketball, ... :D

Then badminton is going to have to ACT like the 'major' sports where match fixing is strictly illegal. This doesn't mean that it doesn't happen in the 'major' sports but when it has been detected is has been dealt with fairly severly.

I also see alot of critisism of LYB and people referring to him as 'evil'. This is nonsense LYB is a 'straw man' in this whole match fixing debate. The root of problem rest with the Chinese (AND I MEAN THE NATION OF CHINA) federation.

[ye333]

I think I misunderstood. I apologize.


Then badminton is going to have to ACT like the 'major' sports where match fixing is strictly illegal. This doesn't mean that it doesn't happen in the 'major' sports but when it has been detected is has been dealt with fairly severly.

I also see alot of critisism of LYB and people referring to him as 'evil'. This is nonsense LYB is a 'straw man' in this whole match fixing debate. The root of problem rest with the Chinese (AND I MEAN THE NATION OF CHINA) federation.

[Polar Bear]

I think I misunderstood. I apologize.

I'm a little confused. I don't think there is any misunderstanding and you certainly don't need to apologize for anything. You are spot on about wanting badminton to be treated like the 'big' sports and it's something we all should want. However, inorder to grow into a major sport olympic badminton should model itself on something closer to Tennis than Professional Wrestling.

[cooler]

Then badminton is going to have to ACT like the 'major' sports where match fixing is strictly illegal. This doesn't mean that it doesn't happen in the 'major' sports but when it has been detected is has been dealt with fairly severly.

I also see alot of critisism of LYB and people referring to him as 'evil'. This is nonsense LYB is a 'straw man' in this whole match fixing debate. The root of problem rest with the Chinese (AND I MEAN THE NATION OF CHINA) federation.

i beg to correct u.
The root of problem rest with the BW federation.

To borrow words from a wise man

Whether we like it or not, sponsors and their rules are here to stay. If at all, you should be petitioning other manufacturers to come forth :o

Whether we like it or not, dominating countries and their fixing are here to stay. If at all, you should be petitioning BWF to come forth :o

[Polar Bear]

i beg to correct u.
The root of problem rest with the BW federation.

To borrow words from a wise man


Whether we like it or not, dominating countries and their fixing are here to stay. If at all, you should be petitioning BWF to come forth :o

You are quoting Old hand totally out of context. In fact, I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make by quoting him. As for the BWF they are the problem with badminton. Witness their recent ruling where they blamed the Korean Federation (Properly) for being the root of the 'Lin Dan' incident while refusing to level any punishment on Lin Dan for throwing his racquet. This sends a warped message that if a player feels sufficiently aggrieved during a tournament violence is an acceptable outlet. That is just warped.

Your assumption that only 'dominant countries' can engage in match fixing is also faulty. ANY team with multiple entrants in an event can fix matches. As I've already stated, in 'real sports' match fixing is against the rules and is dealt with harshly. Let's see them try their match fixing stunt during the Olympics games!


As for your assertion that dominant countries and their fixing being 'here to stay' then Badminton should be prepared to remain as a minor sport on the world stage.

[cooler]

You are quoting Old hand totally out of context. In fact, I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make by quoting him. As for the BWF they are the problem with badminton. Witness their recent ruling where they blamed the Korean Federation (Properly) for being the root of the 'Lin Dan' incident while refusing to level any punishment on Lin Dan for throwing his racquet. This sends a warped message that if a player feels sufficiently aggrieved during a tournament violence is an acceptable outlet. That is just warped.

lets fix the big problem first, quality line judging, better refereeing and umpiring.

Your assumption that only 'dominant countries' can engage in match fixing is also faulty. ANY team with multiple entrants in an event can fix matches. As I've already stated, in 'real sports' match fixing is against the rules and is dealt with harshly. Let's see them try their match fixing stunt during the Olympics games!

i replied to loopy on this already that there is low chance of match fixing in the OG
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=825211&postcount=33


As for your assertion that dominant countries and their fixing being 'here to stay' then Badminton should be prepared to remain as a minor sport on the world stage.

i heard WWF is quite popular, more popular(in term of sponsorship and media coverage) than badminton


..........................

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=825299#post825299)
You are quoting Old hand totally out of context. In fact, I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make by quoting him. As for the BWF they are the problem with badminton. Witness their recent ruling where they blamed the Korean Federation (Properly) for being the root of the 'Lin Dan' incident while refusing to level any punishment on Lin Dan for throwing his racquet. This sends a warped message that if a player feels sufficiently aggrieved during a tournament violence is an acceptable outlet. That is just warped.

lets fix the big problem first, quality line judging, better refereeing and umpiring.

If your not going to address the match fixing, what is the point of bothering with the line judging and the officiating? If the goal is fairplay, then fixing the quality of the officiating is going to do nothing to that end. In fact without addressing match fixing, biased officiating in events outside of China is one way to counter balance match fixing. Also, your assertion that officiating is the bigger problem is faulty. Both issues fall under the larger umbrella of cheating which seems to be rampant in badminton.


Your assumption that only 'dominant countries' can engage in match fixing is also faulty. ANY team with multiple entrants in an event can fix matches. As I've already stated, in 'real sports' match fixing is against the rules and is dealt with harshly. Let's see them try their match fixing stunt during the Olympics games!

i replied to loopy on this already that there is low chance of match fixing in the OG
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...1&postcount=33

Well first off the spectre of match fixing in the OG was not central to the argument I made. Secondly there is no reason for them to do it.


As for your assertion that dominant countries and their fixing being 'here to stay' then Badminton should be prepared to remain as a minor sport on the world stage.

i heard WWF is quite popular, more popular than badminton

Yeah so is porn. Let me know when you want to have a discussion about badminton in the context of it being a real sport.

[ye333]

Oh. I posted a reply requiring you to be banned (at that time I thought you are accusing China the nation), but then I read your post again and realized I misunderstood. I apologize in case you saw my previous reply (which has been deleted).


I'm a little confused. I don't think there is any misunderstanding and you certainly don't need to apologize for anything. You are spot on about wanting badminton to be treated like the 'big' sports and it's something we all should want. However, inorder to grow into a major sport olympic badminton should model itself on something closer to Tennis than Professional Wrestling.

[sjoe]

All you can say is this is BWF problem to dealt with. This attitude is very common, everybody like to push it to somebody to solve the problem or even pray that it may solve by itself when time comes.
Stop say that unless you are contributing to do something to change and help BWF !
How ?, here if I can suggest :
-Any WO by players which are obvious just like we have seen and if you are convince, we can all walk out during the player next match (the one who got a WO).
-Any Game which are played in suspicious manner between two players, if you think it has been fixed. Walkout, don't wait what other think.

If you show that we are not here to play along with what we are not endorsing and show that we are disgusted, sponsor will take notice straight away and we are helping BWF directly.

[phaarix]

..actually it's all an "act", none real, yet they make it seems so real. All shows have been "fixed", pre-planned and pre-arranged. And, in spite of it all, people are still watching and shelling out monies to watch them without any complaints.

Yeah heh, I meant "some" in badminton's case. I was comparing just those "some" matches to wrestling :).


OG is over hyped but i can't stop that.
On a technical merit, an Open type tournament in neutral countries is the best measure of who are the best. ex AE, SWISS, FRENCH OPENS.

TH has no titles from these opens,
LCW has one (french)
LD, well, has many...(with spare to donates to his countrymen as well)

TH has OG, WC and AG titles. Why? coz these games followed fix format

*sigh*.......... >_>

[sumbadder]

All you can say is this is BWF problem to dealt with. This attitude is very common, everybody like to push it to somebody to solve the problem or even pray that it may solve by itself when time comes.
Stop say that unless you are contributing to do something to change and help BWF !
How ?, here if I can suggest :
-Any WO by players which are obvious just like we have seen and if you are convince, we can all walk out during the player next match (the one who got a WO).
-Any Game which are played in suspicious manner between two players, if you think it has been fixed. Walkout, don't wait what other think.

If you show that we are not here to play along with what we are not endorsing and show that we are disgusted, sponsor will take notice straight away and we are helping BWF directly.

The problem with your suggestions though is that they go against common ideals, namely: being innocent till proven guilty. While these walkovers may look to be obviously planned, the BWF can't punish someone with just circumstantial evidence.

[koo_fan]

I want badminton to be treated the same as those "big" sports -- soccer, basketball, ... :D
A hope of all ppls that have Bc.com Id.
BWF is on the right track i hope.

Like how FIFa appointed their legends to lead their organisation.I hope we'll do the same thing.

[pjswift]

you guys talk like LYB is fixing matches because he's some evil villain with a vendetta against the badminton world that he's trying to fulfill. The fact is, he is getting pressure from his higher-ups to obtain as many golds as possible so that in the end, China comes out the huge winner at OG 08 instead of the US.
LYB did not match fix only recently. He got hooked on it when LD first became WR1 and realized the non-SS format made it easy and he wanted to create the aura of invincibility in LD by maintaining him as WR1 instead of letting LD prove his real worth.In the long term,I believe LYB has done LD a great injustice.

[koo_fan]

Pjswift.
not an attempt to flatter u or being a girly type.
But u did help me in understanding the term 'match-fixing'.
Better than before.
i guess we can all say.we are disagree with Lyb.Even the chinese in china.

[Winston_T]

Yeah rite...."for the greater good of China". How cheap and convenient it is to use that as an excuse. If that is the case, every coach can say the same thing "for the greater good of..." some bs and to fix any match in sports.

ye333 have posted it before they deleted.
since 1960, PBSI also "fix" Rudi Hartono match in All England, so he can looks invincible.

plus, quotes from Sabathiel, that Icuk can win the WC 83 coz of the "pressure" from Ina govt, that several Chinese Indonesian had already won prestigious titles, while native Indonesian never win.

from 1960 they're already fix the match, how many of u complaint about that?

[Winston_T]

I think that this is important. If you can have 3 players in the OG rather than 2, then why not? To the Chinese team, their goal is the Olympics. The All England ranks below that and along with promoting badminton which is near the bottom of the list. There are many ways to see this, but I don't think that what they've done is right or wrong. It's right for the Chinese team, but wrong for the fans. And so who's right and who's wrong? If match fixing was really affecting the game, then perhaps this rule of the top 4 shouldn't exist. In which case, would this be the Chinese fault? or would it be the BWF/OG fault? And so, in my opinion, I don't believe that LYB should receive the devil's award for match fixing. but it is certainly something to frown upon.

BWF was unfair to China. that's why LYB try another "solution" so CHN can send maximum player to OG.
just like u said, who's right and who's wrong?

[Winston_T]

I think everyone is still missing the point: LYB's JOB is to be the head coach of team China and produce results. As concerned members of the badminton community we want to see what's best for the sport, but he is doing his job which is not to promote the sport but to bring in the golds. Obviously as fans we don't want to see things run like a business but the sports industry is an industry and to expect that people won't run it as such is completely absurd.

the Board of Commissioners only concern about the result from the CEO (LYB). that's why LYB try very hard to make them satisfy.

[Winston_T]

A business man's job is to make money. If one business man told his supervisor he can make one million in a year but in fact he can only guarantee 900,000, does that mean he should rob or cheat to get the remaining 100,000 and ppl should not criticize him? I don't think so.

In fact, it's interesting to compare LYB's comments and TSF's comments when LD lost. After LD lost to PSH, TSF (in charge of LD at that time. LYB asked him to help) commented that LD is in form, but he lost because PSH played very well. Did we ever hear LYB say similar things? No. He is even reluctant to admit that his players are not in form. Most of the times it's the stadium or audience or wind blahblah.

So LYB wants ppl to view his team as invincible. Thus it's only reasonable that his team is indeed required to be invincible and bring 5 golds home.

who cheat first? BWF or LYB?

[Winston_T]

??? Why should I complain?

In fact I would like to propose a quota of 1 player/pair per event for each country. We can compare with other sports. Can US send 5 teams to the basketball event? No. Can Brazil send 2 teams to the Soccer event? Again, no. Since OG is a country-based (more accurately, association-based) event, it should be reasonable to let every country be represented by its strongest player.

With the above quota, there is simply no reason to do match fixing, before OG or in OG.

Unfortunately, badminton needs OG to promote this sport and there is no way my idea will be implemented. :D

can China sends 3 teams to Uber Cup?

[jimbo]

can China sends 3 teams to Uber Cup?

why not if the venue is CHINA? :rolleyes: If BWF rejected, LYB just boycott and pull off his team. Then the BWF balls will shrink and give in :eek::D:p

[samuel882]

I am totally amazed :eek: Why CHN always claim to be the best in badminton but need to complain about IOC restriction on countries quota in that event. :rolleyes:
pretty simple - If a person is really good. him/she alone can win the title. 3 words - "QUALITY OVER QUANTITY";)

[Winston_T]

I am totally amazed :eek: Why CHN always claim to be the best in badminton but need to complain about IOC restriction on countries quota in that event. :rolleyes:
pretty simple - If a person is really good. him/she alone can win the title. 3 words - "QUALITY OVER QUANTITY";)

bcoz it is unfair for China. our several players can't compete in OG, while the player whom are ranked 60 can played. is it fair?

btw, PBSI and BAM also rely on several players to win OG, and not to certain players / pairs, right? don't get it wrong.

[Winston_T]

OT here:
Just one small comment.....in China, I don't think we have a Board of Commissioners (since I am living in a China-owned HKG :p) We only have Board of Directors here :D Any ppl living in China wouldn't know what the heck is Board of Commisioners?

Only in Indonesia, companies DO have Board of Commissioners (two-tiered board structure). And u still denying the fact that you are not an Indonesian or not residing in Indonesia :eek::p ???

this is just the example of the MANAGEMENT HIERARCHY.

[samuel882]

bcoz it is unfair for China. our several players can't compete in OG, while the player whom are ranked 60 can played. is it fair?

btw, PBSI and BAM also rely on several players to win OG, and not to certain players / pairs, right? don't get it wrong.
Don't ever dream about fairness in badminton games nowadays. It has been lost long long time ago:o
I am pretty sure PBSI & BAM will be happy if TH & LCW being their sole representative in OG and To be Fair.. LD is the only one from China.
Only the best Survive ;)

[Polar Bear]

BWF was unfair to China. that's why LYB try another "solution" so CHN can send maximum player to OG.
just like u said, who's right and who's wrong?

The limit on how many competitors a country can send to the oylimpics is NOT an issue of unfair treatment of CHN by the BWF. In fact it would be unfair if China were allowed to send more because it has been common in the Olypics to limit the number of competitors a country can have compete in a given event. Do you really think 'Eddie the Eagle' from Great Britian qualified for the Olympics because Finland and Norway couldn't dig up one more competitor who was better? What about Jamica sending a bobsled team? Again they were able to do so because the powerfull Countries in bobsledding are not allowed to send 10 teams each.

So why should China be granted special privalige in badminton?

[badMania]

So why should China be granted special privalige in badminton?

Let me reply on half of our dear Winston_T.....simply because China is the best :o:p

[Polar Bear]

ye333 have posted it before they deleted.
since 1960, PBSI also "fix" Rudi Hartono match in All England, so he can looks invincible.

plus, quotes from Sabathiel, that Icuk can win the WC 83 coz of the "pressure" from Ina govt, that several Chinese Indonesian had already won prestigious titles, while native Indonesian never win.

from 1960 they're already fix the match, how many of u complaint about that?

Let me get this straight, you are going back to an incident that occurred in the 1960s to justify cheating now? That is one very warped set of values you have there. By the way since when did this thread become about wether LD TH or LCW is the better player? There are plenty of other threads were that debate raging.

[Polar Bear]

Let me reply on half of our dear Winston_T.....simply because China is the best :o:p

Until they stop cheating we will never know :mad:

[badMania]

Let me get this straight, you are going back to an incident that occurred in the 1960s to justify cheating now? That is one very warped set of values you have there. By the way since when did this thread become about wether LD TH or LCW is the better player? There are plenty of other threads were that debate raging.

U should read more of our dear Winston's post and u will know better. Remember...don't have any tea or coffee besides u...u will spill it for sure :o

[ye333]

Thomas/Uber cups are also country(association)-based events. Therefore the current quota is reasonable.

Furthermore, as a politically correct statement, China indeed sends 4 teams to Thomas/Uber cups -- Mainland, Taiwan, HK, Macau. :D


can China sends 3 teams to Uber Cup?

[Oldhand]

I now know why you guys spend so much time on personal comments.
You are deliberately doing it to keep the mods busy, aren't you? :p

Cut it out, please ;)

[ye333]

It's actually quite interesting to look at history. Before OG04 LD is definitely the hottest star, but then this "almost-retiring prodigy" TH jumped out from nowhere and grabbed the glory. I kind of see LD's attempts to take some glory back in his clash with TH in 04 Ind Open and 05 Sudirman. Then came the infamous WC final, LD collapsed when TH leaded 8:0 in the 1st (He must be thinking, what the hell... Is this guy REALLY better than me?!). He tried to recover in the 2nd and indeed leaded 7:3, but TH was very strong then and managed to not let him won another single point. This loss seemed to had haunt LD until he won his 2nd WC -- he tried to brush TH away by winning the AG final but failed.


At that time only..LD admitted it ( first round with TH in MO) but now...he is not afraid of TH anymore........

[sjoe]

That's why we have to do it. I can understand BWF position.


The problem with your suggestions though is that they go against common ideals, namely: being innocent till proven guilty. While these walkovers may look to be obviously planned, the BWF can't punish someone with just circumstantial evidence.

[sjoe]

ye333 have posted it before they deleted.
since 1960, PBSI also "fix" Rudi Hartono match in All England, so he can looks invincible.

plus, quotes from Sabathiel, that Icuk can win the WC 83 coz of the "pressure" from Ina govt, that several Chinese Indonesian had already won prestigious titles, while native Indonesian never win.

from 1960 they're already fix the match, how many of u complaint about that?

Your year of 1960 is wrong thus I question your recollection and judgment.

[cooler]

pls put AE, this is one of the big event as well ！！！！
well,i kinda started this.
i was to show that TH only do well in fixed tournaments. Fixed means it's not opened to all potential competitors.

[yen_saw]

TH is on the down hill, he has reached the peak before but after the marriage his inconsistancy is very apparent. Losing more often than LD on recent tournaments too. So with all due respect WInston_T, i don't understand why are you defending your stand so much because it is already a fact that LD is the better player. Only those hardcore TH fans with bias mind still think he has a calculative chance of winning another OG gold, or event another SS event. So chill out man!

[Birdwood]

http://badmintoncn.com/News/c/200803/20080315091407.html

For those who don't read Chinese, the article indicates that a) Many fans in China are complaining about LYB's match-fixing practices (in AE and possibly Swiss open), and b) LYB has openly admitted to match-fixing in the past, but felt that it can't be helped due to the priorities in China. The article, which supposedly comes from a Chinese newspaper, is quite critical of this.

I don't mean to provoke more debates on this; I'm just pleased that there is media pressure in China for change.

Your summary of the article is far from accurate and appear to be narrow-minded. I would suggest that if you'd like to refer to an Chinese article in the future, please do a translation, so BCers can get a more complete picture about what it has been said.


The greater good of China (although ironically China doesn't sound too happy about it apparently?)... by MANIPULATING the Olympic qualifications! It really does disgust me, and I don't know how they're allowed to get away with it. I hope this article has some effect. It's not good at all and it just has to stop... To me it's even more of an issue than biased line calls.

That's the problem I cited above. You read what ms142 wrote, not the article itself.

[yen_saw]

I agree with Birdwood about the summary ms142 made, it doesn't give the entire picture of what the article said. I am not going to go detail into that article. Basically, some people may categorize the W/O as strategy to attain better seeding and maximize the number of eligible chinese players, while other people may think this is unsportmanship and unethical. At the end, as long as WBF didn't think it is against the rule and continue to accommodate such behaviour. China will continue to take advantage of it.

[Birdwood]

u dont want but the bookies wants to fix the game:p:)
so we(ordinary ppl) cant do anything about it...:rolleyes::(
we juz can at here debating non stop..:D

I love you attitude and with you on the issue :D


LYB thinks he is the GOD of the Badminton World, who ruins the world of badminton with "strategic" match fixing......for the sake of his country, for the sake of Olympic......But, to me, is for his own GOOD! :mad:

Ppl r getting bored of this scenario, and our police of Badminton World (IBF) seems to be ignored all these, as a fan, what can we do?:(

Vching, we need another petition!!!:mad:

That's a very constructive comment :rolleyes:


When they knew majority are against the rule.Second thought may happen.
not a huge impact but it is an impact.
Wait until u are in BWF.Only then will response?

Civilians are power.

Could you please elaborate a little more how this works :confused:


All you can say is this is BWF problem to dealt with. This attitude is very common, everybody like to push it to somebody to solve the problem or even pray that it may solve by itself when time comes.
Stop say that unless you are contributing to do something to change and help BWF !
How ?, here if I can suggest :
-Any WO by players which are obvious just like we have seen and if you are convince, we can all walk out during the player next match (the one who got a WO).
-Any Game which are played in suspicious manner between two players, if you think it has been fixed. Walkout, don't wait what other think.

If you show that we are not here to play along with what we are not endorsing and show that we are disgusted, sponsor will take notice straight away and we are helping BWF directly.

Sorry to ask you. but how many SS have you been? If most of us don't even go to SS in the first place, how can we walk out (unless you meant we walk out on our computers) :confused:;)

[jimbo]

Dont hold grudges if you cant compete fairly with CHN team. They have the luxury to "manipulate" the number of entries for CHN, and that's because the rest of the world cannot match them in all departments, esp MS. :eek:

If our LCW, Yoyo and WCH are top 4 in the world, do you think BAM wont do as what LYB is practising now? C'on, it's the MEDALS that count, not ethical or sportmanship. In 10-20yrs down the road, we ONLY remember the winners, NOT those "sportmanship" players. :rolleyes:

[yen_saw]

Dont hold grudges if you cant compete fairly with CHN team. They have the luxury to "manipulate" the number of entries for CHN, and that's because the rest of the world cannot match them in all departments, esp MS. :eek:

If our LCW, Yoyo and WCH are top 4 in the world, do you think BAM wont do as what LYB is practising now? C'on, it's the MEDALS that count, not ethical or sportmanship. In 10-20yrs down the road, we ONLY remember the winners, NOT those "sportmanship" players. :rolleyes:

I agree, i am not on anyone's side. I would do the same too if i am the coach, it is a dog eat dog world out here and only the non-competant lose. I am just refering to what other people were stated here. It is all depends on what you think best fit the situation. I would be a fool not to manipulate the system if it is not against the rule.

[Birdwood]

At least as far as I know, ever since 2000, there was such voice.

It seems to be a waste of time :cool:


That's why we have to do it. I can understand BWF position.

Have you found the BWF's position? Maybe we can help you to understand if you don't mind to share with us ;)

[phaarix]

well,i kinda started this.
i was to show that TH only do well in fixed tournaments. Fixed means it's not opened to all potential competitors.

You act as if he's only ever won the three (or whatever) tournaments you mentioned...? He's done perfectly well in other tournaments. Definitely not nearly as well as Lin Dan has, but I don't think that you can say he ONLY does well in "fixed tournaments" (not getting into that).


That's the problem I cited above. You read what ms142 wrote, not the article itself.

Ahhh, well yeah, I couldn't exactly read it myself, so all I had to go on was the English summary posted! Sorry!

[pjswift]

I agree with Birdwood about the summary ms142 made, it doesn't give the entire picture of what the article said. I am not going to go detail into that article. Basically, some people may categorize the W/O as strategy to attain better seeding and maximize the number of eligible chinese players, while other people may think this is unsportmanship and unethical. At the end, as long as WBF didn't think it is against the rule and continue to accommodate such behaviour. China will continue to take advantage of it.
This sounds worse than what ms142 summarised.( Why don't you just post the article here?)
Question is: Why would CHN, with its seeming domination, need to take advantage? Lack of confidence in its players?

[phaarix]

Dont hold grudges if you cant compete fairly with CHN team. They have the luxury to "manipulate" the number of entries for CHN, and that's because the rest of the world cannot match them in all departments, esp MS. :eek:

If our LCW, Yoyo and WCH are top 4 in the world, do you think BAM wont do as what LYB is practising now? C'on, it's the MEDALS that count, not ethical or sportmanship. In 10-20yrs down the road, we ONLY remember the winners, NOT those "sportmanship" players. :rolleyes:

I really don't agree... And it's not exactly "me" competing with the China team :D. I'm from New Zealand... New Zealand simply does not "compete" in high level tournaments (unless you count our one-off bronze at WC...). So I don't feel I'm biased by country in the slightest. The point is they SHOULDN'T have the luxury. Bending the rules (if there's not a rule against it, there should be...) and manipulating results, in some ways spoiling a tournament is totally unethical and personally I DO respect the players with the best attitudes (don't misread - I'm not getting at Chinese player's attitudes here) and I'm sure will personally remember them just as much as the winners...

Though now I think about it I'm not sure I understand your post completely. Are you defending China's tactics? Or are you simply asking people not to hold a grudge? Because I don't see how anyone even remotely interested in badminton's future could defend this disgraceful tactic...

[jimbo]

Though now I think about it I'm not sure I understand your post completely. Are you defending China's tactics? Or are you simply asking people not to hold a grudge? Because I don't see how anyone even remotely interested in badminton's future could defend this disgraceful tactic...

Dont get me wrong, I will NEVER EVER respect a person like LYB but I do understand that he will do EVERYTHING WITHIN HIS POWER to win as many GOLDs for CHN as possible. That's his top priority, isnt it? Ask Misbun or Rexy, what would they do if Msia have at three MS or MD in top4 now, what will he do? In sports, it's all about WINNINGs/MEDALs, and they (coaches, players, etc...) will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to achieve that goal.

I am a BIG Msia BOLEH fan :D and I'd hold grudges whenever our LCW or MD lost but I dont blame LYB's dirty tactics for match fixings. I only hope one day LCW will beat three of them enroute to win the OG GOLD (wishful thinking? :D)

Actually, we should learn from LYB on how to exploit "systems" without breaking the rules/laws. I'm truly learning it now... :)

Msia Boleh!!! LCW Boleh!!! :p:D

[markham player]

Between national pride & sportmanship, LYB chooses the former, very realistic. Humanity is his last concern I think & every team members are "disposable", including LD if he is not productive comparatively.
This summer, his team has to capture at least 3 golds in Beijing otherwise his "butt" will be off the chair of head coach. Politics are dirty everywhere & China is no exception.
Therefore, if I were him, I think I would do the same too even though I don't like him at all. Nothing will be changed.
To eliminate this kind of "bull-****", qualifying spots should be increased accordingly so that enough spots can be allocated to each country or region otherwise this kind of bull will be going on forever & this kind of argumentative discussions will be continued every 4 years.

[badMania]

To eliminate this kind of "bull-****", qualifying spots should be increased accordingly so that enough spots can be allocated to each country or region otherwise this kind of bull will be going on forever & this kind of argumentative discussions will be continued every 4 years.

The question is: how many is enough? And who's to decide what's enough :cool:

China was also well-known for fixing matches in Table-Tennis practice.
However, that practice seemed to have been abandoned ever since there's a past incident which was highlighted...(maybe fans from China know more about these things). Right now, matches involving Chinese players in TT are hard-fought and sometimes, the favorites may end up losing too :o Again, correct me if I am wrong here.

2 direct entries per countries for players in the top 30 I think and other entries have to be gained through qualification tourneys. This is the first step that badminton should follow, for Olympics qualification.

[cooler]

I agree, i am not on anyone's side. I would do the same too if i am the coach, it is a dog eat dog world out here and only the non-competant lose. I am just refering to what other people were stated here. It is all depends on what you think best fit the situation. I would be a fool not to manipulate the system if it is not against the rule.
dog eat dog IS NOT allowed in china, that would a waste of food:p:cool:

[jimbo]

2 direct entries per countries for players in the top 30 I think and other entries have to be gained through qualification tourneys. This is the first step that badminton should follow, for Olympics qualification.

I think two entries for each category should be enforced. If this is the case, LYB has no motivation to match-fix. Well, it's once in every four yrs and this yr is crucial than others :eek:

[cooler]

This sounds worse than what ms142 summarised.( Why don't you just post the article here?)
Question is: Why would CHN, with its seeming domination, need to take advantage? Lack of confidence in its players?
do u whines about rich people too? They r so rich, why do they need to keep on making more money:rolleyes: Go tell them they lack confidence too:p

[ye333]

What kind of "national pride" would China gain through medals obtained with the help of match-fixing? Did Koreans gain "national pride" through medals won with the help of biased line judges? :confused::confused::confused:

LYB is choosing his own career over sportsmanship. No "national pride" in this equation here.


Between national pride & sportmanship, LYB chooses the former, very realistic. Humanity is his last concern I think & every team members are "disposable", including LD if he is not productive comparatively.
This summer, his team has to capture at least 3 golds in Beijing otherwise his "butt" will be off the chair of head coach. Politics are dirty everywhere & China is no exception.
Therefore, if I were him, I think I would do the same too even though I don't like him at all. Nothing will be changed.
To eliminate this kind of "bull-****", qualifying spots should be increased accordingly so that enough spots can be allocated to each country or region otherwise this kind of bull will be going on forever & this kind of argumentative discussions will be continued every 4 years.

[ye333]

Well, if the rich people make more money through illegal or "gray" ways (for example, bribe the government officials), people should "whine" about it.


do u whines about rich people too? They r so rich, why do they need to keep on making more money:rolleyes: Go tell them they lack confidence too:p

[yen_saw]

This sounds worse than what ms142 summarised.( Why don't you just post the article here?)
Question is: Why would CHN, with its seeming domination, need to take advantage? Lack of confidence in its players?

Only a fool will not trying to maximize the number of players allow in the Olympic games. It has nothing to do with the confidence level of the player. Any country would like to put three players in each event if possible, the question is, are they capable of doing it? Even a country has three players in top four position, i am sure they will try to make it as top 4 so they have more alternative to fielding which player. You can look at it as taking advantage, but for chinese team it appear to be a strategy and also an opportunity to field more players, thus better chances of getting gold medal.

I wasn't summarize the article, i was only giving my opinion after reading that article.

[yen_saw]

dog eat dog IS NOT allowed in china, that would a waste of food:p:cool:

It could be worst:p

[yen_saw]

What kind of "national pride" would China gain through medals obtained with the help of match-fixing? Did Koreans gain "national pride" through medals won with the help of biased line judges? :confused::confused::confused:

LYB is choosing his own career over sportsmanship. No "national pride" in this equation here.

"National pride" is defined by the number of gold that country is capable of accumulating. I have mentioned it before (at least the second time) that it is all depend on how you look at it. It could be a strategy or unethical approach towards your goal. As for me, it is not against the rule unless BWF seriously looking at setting it a rule. Now when an athelete is tested positive for steroids on 100m dash for example, now that is what I called a breach in your National pride, which is when you broke the law.

[ye333]

There is an official definition of "national pride"? I don't think so, and I disagree with your "definition". :mad:

Your definition is also against the traditional value system of Chinese culture.


"National pride" is defined by the number of gold that country is capable of accumulating. I have mentioned it before (at least the second time) that it is all depend on how you look at it. It could be a strategy or unethical approach towards your goal. As for me, it is not against the rule unless BWF seriously looking at setting it a rule. Now when an athelete is tested positive for steroids on 100m dash for example, now that is what I called a breach in your National pride, which is when you broke the law.

[phaarix]

Dont get me wrong, I will NEVER EVER respect a person like LYB but I do understand that he will do EVERYTHING WITHIN HIS POWER to win as many GOLDs for CHN as possible. That's his top priority, isnt it? Ask Misbun or Rexy, what would they do if Msia have at three MS or MD in top4 now, what will he do? In sports, it's all about WINNINGs/MEDALs, and they (coaches, players, etc...) will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to achieve that goal.

I am a BIG Msia BOLEH fan :D and I'd hold grudges whenever our LCW or MD lost but I dont blame LYB's dirty tactics for match fixings. I only hope one day LCW will beat three of them enroute to win the OG GOLD (wishful thinking? :D)

Actually, we should learn from LYB on how to exploit "systems" without breaking the rules/laws. I'm truly learning it now... :)

Msia Boleh!!! LCW Boleh!!! :p:D

I'm glad I added that last bit then. I've done that so much before... written out a whole post only to decide not to click submit in case I missed the point :D. Well I unfortunately can't honestly say I've never exploited anything myself :p.

[sjoe]

.......
Though now I think about it I'm not sure I understand your post completely. Are you defending China's tactics? Or are you simply asking people not to hold a grudge? Because I don't see how anyone even remotely interested in badminton's future could defend this disgraceful tactic...

This should directed to Birdwood. Or if I can ask Birdwood, what is your stand in this issues ? Do you think we are wasting our time ?

[badMania]

This should directed to Birdwood. Or if I can ask Birdwood, what is your stand in this issues ? Do you think we are wasting our time ?

Birdwood's stance: "this thing has been discussed so many times over and over again. And the ppl who complain (I am one of the culprit) don't offer any constructive comments --> no points discussing it further."

Please do correct me if I am wrong here :o:D

[cooler]

birdwood replied already
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=826262&postcount=83

[Birdwood]

This should directed to Birdwood. Or if I can ask Birdwood, what is your stand in this issues ? Do you think we are wasting our time ?

I thought I asked you two questions first (in posts #80 and 83), so far where are the answers? Please try to answer the questions from others first before cross examining others :eek:

[Birdwood]

Birdwood's stance: "this thing has been discussed so many times over and over again. And the ppl who complain (I am one of the culprit) don't offer any constructive comments --> no points discussing it further."

Please do correct me if I am wrong here :o:D

You're correct, all talk, no action :D

[phaarix]

You're correct, all talk, no action :D

May I ask what "actions" you suggest we take?

[jimbo]

You're correct, all talk, no action :D

In Singapore, it's called "TCSS" (Talk Cock Sing Song) :D:p If u still dun understand, just ask any singaporeans here :eek::D