Korean Tc Team Done Their Tricks..... [Archive] - Badminton Central Discussion Forums

abedeng

05-11-2008, 09:45 PM

Apology accepted and forgive me for the sensitivity u know INA-MAS relation is not good politically now thats why u have to be a bit careful...hohohohoho...is cool dude we are cool as long as u refer to us as INA not Indon:D

INA-MAS political relations may not be good all the time, like SIN-MAS political relations ...... :p

But that doesn't mean INA-MAS people relations cannot be good all the time, like SIN-MAS people relations ....... :D:D:D Yup, some SIN and INA folks need to celebrate my birthday this week.

But yeah, while the Indon word is not quite nice from INA viewpoint, most ppl in Malaysia do not know this. I told this fact to my wife, when she kept calling INA folks Indon .....

Anyway, if Korea want to lose on purpose, so be it.

jimbo

05-11-2008, 09:48 PM

But that doesn't mean INA-MAS people relations cannot be good all the time, like SIN-MAS people relations ...

Not true leh... Uncle Loh and I have good n solid relationship, of coz, not brokeback :eek::D

taufik-ist

05-11-2008, 09:51 PM

INA-MAS political relations may not be good all the time, like SIN-MAS political relations ...... :p

But that doesn't mean INA-MAS people relations cannot be good all the time, like SIN-MAS people relations ....... :D:D:D Yup, some SIN and INA folks need to celebrate my birthday this week.

But yeah, while the Indon word is not quite nice from INA viewpoint, most ppl in Malaysia do not know this. I told this fact to my wife, when she kept calling INA folks Indon .....

Anyway, if Korea want to lose on purpose, so be it.

ya.. why bother.. the important is the final.. who will be there ? :D

d65up2

05-11-2008, 09:52 PM

Not true leh... Uncle Loh and I have good n solid relationship, of coz, not brokeback :eek::D

Hohoho of course not brokeback

reiko80

05-11-2008, 09:56 PM

Hohoho of course not brokeback
livescore hang up!!!!!!!

narnia

05-11-2008, 09:58 PM

If KOR wins MAS tonight, they can still secure(?) their goal - to be third ranked.

Yesterday, MAS won ENG with no games lost. And if now KOR finishes to lose to ENG with only a game(in 1st MS) won, and tonight won MAS with at least 2 games lost, then KOR will be the third even though they win.

In short, KOR can be easily to be third, even though they win MAS by just losing 2 games in all the 5 matches. :cool:

d65up2

05-11-2008, 09:58 PM

livescore hang up!!!!!!!

I know probably because they try to be fancy and make the thing look good but then the function keeps being gay

george@chongwei

05-11-2008, 09:59 PM

what a shame to the korea team:(!!!!
didnt they realise that this is a thomas cup???????????

ckloo

05-11-2008, 10:00 PM

`no...meet indon is more easy than china....we only can meet china in the final....and easy to beat denmar in semis....but now the hope destroy by korean...:mad:

Aiya, just let the Korean do whatsoever they like. If their strategy backfired, then they can say goodbye to TC today. Let's pray that MAS beat them, and let England enter the QF(Good for European's Badminton too :D). Our team already said in advance, WE ARE NOT SCARED OF ANYONE(be it CHINA, INDO OR DENMARK)!!!

Louisa

05-11-2008, 10:01 PM

sigh!!!!too many works to complete..if not, sure i on MC (thanks to jimbo, hihi)...sick with the livescores...

reiko80

05-11-2008, 10:01 PM

george@chongwei

05-11-2008, 10:01 PM

if they play in the playoff, they will surely put their strongest lineup to advace to the quater final!!
unless 1 of their players injured or what..

jimbo

05-11-2008, 10:02 PM

sigh!!!!too many works to complete..if not, sure i on MC (thanks to jimbo, hihi)...sick with the livescores...

walao...u MC oso my fault? :eek: I"ll make sure u MC when we meet in JKT :D

abedeng

05-11-2008, 10:03 PM

ya.. why bother.. the important is the final.. who will be there ? :D

Hopefully either MAS or INA, that will really make it worthwhile ..... or both MAS and INA if possible.

Anyway, our group will be there ..... u too, I hope.

reiko80

05-11-2008, 10:05 PM

what a shame to the korea team:(!!!!
didnt they realise that this is a thomas cup???????????
george...they try to play around like qualify last 3 month....but now.....MAKAN TUAN.....:D:D:D

Louisa

05-11-2008, 10:06 PM

walao...u MC oso my fault? :eek: I"ll make sure u MC when we meet in JKT :D
hey, u forgot about ur MC theory in Who is Going thread....if your leave not being approved, then u will be on MC, just to go Jkt...:D

If I have a choice, sure I on MC this few days....:D

Louisa

05-11-2008, 10:09 PM

still no updated scores....haiya..........

reiko80

05-11-2008, 10:09 PM

anybody knows latest result korea-england...pls contact our kwun at jakarta...

bcmmgr

05-11-2008, 10:10 PM

In my opinion, is better you DO NOT choose, it seem S.Korea choose to play Denmark in quarter, who know they lost to Denmark ? or maybe Japan top Group C, and S.Korea meet Japan in quarter and lost, .....then you will start to regret.

Don't unestimate Denmark ( or event Japan), see what Thailand did to Indonesia.

jimbo

05-11-2008, 10:13 PM

anybody knows latest result korea-england...pls contact our kwun at jakarta...

kwun in JKT? i think it's Hauge :p

reiko80

05-11-2008, 10:14 PM

reiko80

05-11-2008, 10:15 PM

kwun in JKT? i think it's Hauge :p
yes hauge.....anybody try to call him:D:D:D

reiko80

05-11-2008, 10:16 PM

useless livescores......astro should show all match....

tze yang

05-11-2008, 10:20 PM

Korea sent their Women's team to thomas cup la. Puss in boots, lose to avoid China.
Malaysia, at least, sent their MEN's team. They'll kick ass all the way. If you can't beat China in the Semi's you won't be able to in the final. Same thing.

taufik-ist

05-11-2008, 10:24 PM

yes hauge.....anybody try to call him:D:D:D

hauge is very busy at the moment

badMania

05-11-2008, 10:25 PM

hauge is very busy at the moment

Hau-Ge is makan-ing at the moment....but, he told me that KOR has lost.....the guys did their job.

reiko80

05-11-2008, 10:29 PM

Hau-Ge is makan-ing at the moment....but, he told me that KOR has lost.....the guys did their job.
what a shame if korea lost.........henky panky TC:D

jasonmarc

05-11-2008, 10:42 PM

But i thought Malaysia want to meet China instead of Indonesia..:confused::rolleyes:

But the team who finished as B3 will probably face Den....in Quater and Indonesia in Semi.....;)......

As for me.....this strategy thing.....just ruined the spirit of sportmanship...and the format is so weak...........that let them have the oppotunity to take adventage out of it.......

The matches in TC become ....... not interesting......predictable..........and full with on paper strategy instead of play all out in the court........sad.....sad......for badminton......

This foolish format have to change.......:o

reiko80

05-11-2008, 10:42 PM

confirm korean lost 4-1 to england................

markchan

05-11-2008, 10:55 PM

" If you can't beat China in the Semi's you won't be able to in the final. Same thing.[/quote]

I think this thinking is so rite. In fact,it might be "easier" to beat CHN in the semis as the pressure will not be the same when u face them in the Final. IMHO.

nellute

05-11-2008, 11:07 PM

what a shame.

The game system needs to be changed.

copadh

05-11-2008, 11:12 PM

But the team who finished as B3 will probably face Den....in Quarter and Indonesia in Semi.....;)......
As for me.....this strategy thing.....just ruined the spirit of sportmanship...and the format is so weak...........that let them have the oppotunity to take adventage out of it.......
The matches in TC become ....... not interesting......predictable..........and full with on paper strategy instead of play all out in the court........sad.....sad......for badminton......
This foolish format have to change.......:o

Yeah, this format, with playoff stage, allows team to do tricks and paper strategy they need. But it's only on grup stage, we will see the real power of each team since playoff and forward. Hope so.

bcmmgr

05-11-2008, 11:20 PM

I think the system is ok, but suggest the playoff will be re-draw, so if you are second and third team in each group, the draw will randomly put you in any path, then you cannot do what S.Korea did, CHOOSE who you want to play in quarter/semi final.

modious

05-11-2008, 11:21 PM

gitee

05-11-2008, 11:24 PM

livescore hang up!!!!!!!

Hi Guys,

It's not that livescore hung up on you folks. It's the internet connection at the Hall that was unstable ..hence, the live score that was working at the Hall could not connect up to the Internet to update you all.

Want to blame ...blame organisers lah ... for such unstable internet connection. Not the issue of livescoring software.

gitee

05-11-2008, 11:27 PM

Yeah, I think this is better.

I think it is best that they maintain the system. But then don't produce the next stage draw until the final match of 1st round is over. Then have a half day break whereby the draw is conducted.

Then no one can play strategy like that.

One can't blame the Korean TC team. Who care whether shameful to lose to ENG or not. At the end of the day, it's whoever that wins the Cup is the wisest even though they might not be seen to be wise at the beginning by losing to minnows. :)

CLELY

05-12-2008, 12:46 AM

Tonight against 3rd seed MAS, looks like KOR will field another weird line-up. KOR Thomas team has chosen and decided their strategy, lost tamely to weak team England. Next scenario on paper, KOR will challenge DEN in last eight and INA at semifinal.

liying_0505

05-12-2008, 01:10 AM

So pathetic...
I used to love Korea Team.... now with their so called "strategy"..... I'm so so so disappointed with them.... Haizz......
To my country's players and coaches, you all are the best.....
This is because our country's players never use stupid strategies like the Korea and China....

ricksakti

05-12-2008, 01:14 AM

strategy is a strategy....strategy to win is a strategy...

jimbo

05-12-2008, 01:15 AM

strategy is to "win at all costs" :cool:

ronnie14

05-12-2008, 01:37 AM

seriously,i think playing ina is harder than china bc remember, they are now playing in ina home soil,in front of ina die-hard, strong, supportive fans :) mas shd meet ina as late as possible

bcmmgr

05-12-2008, 01:44 AM

seriously,i think playing ina is harder than china bc remember, they are now playing in ina home soil,in front of ina die-hard, strong, supportive fans :) mas shd meet ina as late as possible

Agree, and I think if MAS manage to go to Semi, they will be fully support by INA fun......to play again China.

AlanY

05-12-2008, 02:51 AM

jess....this is what i notice....korean are smart.....they can play variety of tactical games....now malaysian in trouble....had to be top of the group and meet china:mad::mad:
smart? what smart? everyone can cheat but most people choose not to!

Dreamzz

05-12-2008, 02:55 AM

ah, i don't think you can term this cheating, it's merely tactics.
not necessarily the most sporting tactics, but tactics nonetheless.

ngkt67

05-12-2008, 03:00 AM

Oops, they DID it again...!!!

eaglehelang

05-12-2008, 04:19 AM

No, that is what Korea wants you to believe. The truth is they are making Malaysia feel complacent. They'll come up with full length line ups in the evening and knock Malaysia off the feet. Then later on they beat china too in SF.

Nope they didnt, they came up with weird line up again like the morning against England.

or they will play few points then see who will withdraw 1st...all kinds of excuse....stomach ache,fever,twisted ankle...
LOL, kah kah. Msia wont do that. Yap KH will be fired if they do.

rexy already told yesterday.....be careful with korean..........now prove what rexy say...i think rexy is a good bomoh...:D

Rexy not good bomoh, Korea already pulled this stunt during qualifiers in Feb.
:D

In my opinion, is better you DO NOT choose, it seem S.Korea choose to play Denmark in quarter, who know they lost to Denmark ? or maybe Japan top Group C, and S.Korea meet Japan in quarter and lost, .....then you will start to regret.

Don't unestimate Denmark ( or event Japan), see what Thailand did to Indonesia.

That's why Msia coaches, decided not to risk it & chose to play to top the group B & face China head on Semis

seriously,i think playing ina is harder than china bc remember, they are now playing in ina home soil,in front of ina die-hard, strong, supportive fans :) mas shd meet ina as late as possible

Interesting, your opinion also shared by LCW. LCW said to press that he prefer to play China than Indonesia on home ground. Play Indonesia must face all the fanatical fans, he dont like. He prefer play China, then hope Indonesia fans cheer for Msia, he he.

Indonesia almost lost to Thailand on home ground yesterday. Can also be considered home ground pressure instead of home ground advantage.

Hazeef

05-12-2008, 05:03 AM

I think it is best that they maintain the system. But then don't produce the next stage draw until the final match of 1st round is over. Then have a half day break whereby the draw is conducted.

Then no one can play strategy like that.

This is a very good idea, tho. so dat nobody can do what korean did. but secrecy is almost impossible these days, right? haha.

Anyway, i think what korean did is better. sending random scratched pair rather than main pairs and players pretending to lose. but i wonder what will happen if one of the players injured during this 'fun' strategy :rolleyes:
padan muka (suit them well)

mcchooi

05-12-2008, 06:31 AM

koreans are good at playing the draw to their advantage.

by coming 3rd, they play denmark (QF), indonesia (SF) and will avoid china or malaysia until the final

if they come in 2nd, they'll play indonesia in (QF)

if they top the group, they'll play china in the (SF)...

LazyBuddy

05-12-2008, 06:37 AM

After all years years of "team CHN trial", we now see KOR on the stance. Overall, that proves that all the coaches / staff / players are human, and they do whatever to protect their own interests - get better final results and keep their jobs.

Whatever they think and believe might not always agree with our fans. Some achievment are 100% pure hard work, some are more or less involved with "strategies". Whether we as fans like it or not, it's not fair for us to judge them, unless we are in their position.

Sit back and relax, at least we know that LYB is not the only one will use his head to create "shortcut". :D

jamesd20

05-12-2008, 06:56 AM

But at least British front page would be like....England manage to pull an upset after a brave win against the mighty South Korea...lol

Report on Match from www.badmintonengland.co.uk, not even a mention of the team changes from Korea! haha, good propaganda for the UK public!

Monday

England roared back from their opening 5-0 defeat by Malaysia to defeat Korea 4-1 on Day Two of the Thomas Cup men's world team championships in Jakarta.

And that win means England will face Nigeria in the first knockout round.

Team manager Peter Jeffrey said: "It was a great result for England to beat Korea. Our team performed well and secured second place in our group.

"We are now looking forward to the knockout stages and tomorrow's match against Nigeria."

If, as anticipated, England progress against the Nigerians, they can expect to meet former champions and hosts Indonesia in the quarter-finals.

England made one change today from the team that went down to Malaysia. Nathan Rice came in to play third singles instead of Ben Beckman and the Bucks player claimed one of England's wins.

The only rubber England didn't win saw Rob Adcock and Robin Middleton go down 21-19 21-15 to Lee Yong Dae and Shon Seung Mo.

England 4 Korea 1

Singles: Andrew Smith bt Hong Ji Hoon 21-19 18-21 21-16, Rajiv Oueph bt Lee Jae Jin 21-11 21-19, Nathan Rice bt Hwang Ji Man 21-11 21-18.
Doubles: Chris Langridge & Chris Adcock bt Park Sung Hwan & Lee Hyun Il 21-11 21-19, Robert Adcock & Robin Middleton lost to Lee Yong Dae & Shon Seung Mo 21-19 21-15.

badMania

05-12-2008, 07:02 AM

England "roared back" :eek:

What a word to use.....:o

felix929

05-12-2008, 07:29 AM

badadum

05-12-2008, 08:24 AM

Just another reason to root for the Danish Uncles in QF :)

abedeng

05-12-2008, 09:19 AM

If i was the coach of Korea i would do the same thing
think about it
if they came out as group B # 3 they face canada (which they are gonna demolish no offense)
and if they are vsin japan or denmark they have a huge chance of making it into semis
and then still they dont have to verse the insane team of China...
so the chances of at least runners up is very high with the strategy they are usin
this is called victory at all costs
hahaha

This is called manipulation of the draw. I think it is about time for BWF to change the rules and remove the cross-over pre-quarterfinals. Makes no sense to have group matches where no one is eliminated ......

I hope Indonesia can stop Korea's progress, let 'em know there is no shortcut to success. None of INA's Thomas Cup titles came from manipulation, when they tried it in 1992, they didn't win the title.

tze yang

05-12-2008, 09:34 AM

eaglehelang

05-12-2008, 09:39 AM

If they were to "win the cup at all cost", how is this strategy to their advantage?They now have to play Denmark, Indonesia AND China/Malaysia to win the cup, Malaysia however, will only need to play China and one of the other. Dumb strategy?

Wait till they lose to Denmark, then they would regret taking that path, at least losing to China means making the semis.
Gade will stun Hyun Il. I have faith in my long time idol.

They want to avoid Indonesia & China. To do that, must lose to both England & Msia. Msia just wanted to avoid meeting Indonesia early. China is defending champ, not easy for any team. Since now Denmark won against japan, they have chosen to play Korea in QF.

But, if not Denmark, hopefully Indonesia will stop them at Semi F. PG still not fully recover from his illness, lost match today against Sato.

Dreamzz

05-12-2008, 09:39 AM

If they were to "win the cup at all cost", how is this strategy to their advantage?They now have to play Denmark, Indonesia AND China/Malaysia to win the cup, Malaysia however, will only need to play China and one of the other. Dumb strategy?

Wait till they lose to Denmark, then they would regret taking that path, at least losing to China means making the semis.
Gade will stun Hyun Il. I have faith in my long time idol.

basically this maximises their chances of making it to the finals.
everyone appears to be trying to avoid meeting CHN as long as possible.
but yeah, beating both DEN and INA is not guaranteed.

ben95

05-12-2008, 09:47 AM

This is called manipulation of the draw. I think it is about time for BWF to change the rules and remove the cross-over pre-quarterfinals. Makes no sense to have group matches where no one is eliminated ......

I hope Indonesia can stop Korea's progress, let 'em know there is no shortcut to success. None of INA's Thomas Cup titles came from manipulation, when they tried it in 1992, they didn't win the title.

Absolutely. What a bad way to win. I really hope korean team will be crushed :mad: :mad:
Moreover their strategy will not help them on double.

Putting LHI & PSH in double could a good training for them (not too hard physically for them) but Ji Man Hwang for third MS (twice in addition)...
I'll be rofl if they lost a tie 3-2 because of the MD2 :-/

reiko80

05-12-2008, 09:59 AM

jessica..............as i told u....korean really want to meet canada.............

sumbadder

05-12-2008, 10:09 AM

my god its a TEAM competition. you're supposed to use team strategy.

Qidong

05-12-2008, 10:16 AM

This kind of tactic is used in every sport whenever there is a group play format. See the World Cup soccer, how many times a team sent in all the reserves in order to lose a match to avoid Brazil or the host country in the elimnation round. As long as the Korean is following the rules, it's their business if they don't care about people criticize their sportmanship.

pauline

05-12-2008, 10:22 AM

They have the guts to do that.....can avoid China in semi, train Hong Ji Hoon, boost their confidence and blow the confidence of M'sian MDs...(Personally,I think if our doubles really feel "humiliated",the line-up strategy is a success.)
It's not really correct ethically though.

reiko80

05-12-2008, 10:22 AM

gitee

05-12-2008, 10:27 AM

but its really not gentle..........to avoid china if u really fit...go n meet china:D

Ya ,,,meet in Final what ! What's wrong !

gitee

05-12-2008, 10:29 AM

England "roared back" :eek:

What a word to use.....:o

I would say 'What a shame, England !' to cheat your public that you have indeed beaten the almight Koreans. You should state clearly that you have beaten the Koreans singles in doubles amd beaten the Koreans doubles in singles !!

reiko80

05-12-2008, 10:39 AM

Ya ,,,meet in Final what ! What's wrong !
why want to meet in final.............scared to meet early????? korean vo balls:D:D:D:D

gitee

05-12-2008, 10:42 AM

why want to meet in final.............scared to meet early????? korean vo balls:D:D:D:D

Aiyah ..strategy lah. No need to b so stupid like MAS ahh.

ye333

05-12-2008, 10:58 AM

The sad thing is that nothing (except fans criticizing and despising that team) can be done about it as long as the players put in reasonable effort. Since it's team play, the team has the right to send on court whoever they want.

I think this strategy shows Korea indeed thought they have some real chance of winning the cup.

This kind of tactic is used in every sport whenever there is a group play format. See the World Cup soccer, how many times a team sent in all the reserves in order to lose a match to avoid Brazil or the host country in the elimnation round. As long as the Korean is following the rules, it's their business if they don't care about people criticize their sportmanship.

ye333

05-12-2008, 10:59 AM

I guess they figured that they have to use top form if they meet China. If they meet China before the final, they would be mentally and physically exhausted after it and the next team they face will take the advantage. :cool:

why want to meet in final.............scared to meet early????? korean vo balls:D:D:D:D

yen_saw

05-12-2008, 11:11 AM

The Korean MD combination makes me laugh...... I praise Malaysia for fielding their best players. At least they can hold their heads up finishing top in the group.

Wong8Egg

05-12-2008, 11:19 AM

LOL LHI+PSH, it must be funny to watch them play.Very creative.

ye333

05-12-2008, 11:57 AM

Would be even better if PSH had his eye glasses on. :D

LOL LHI+PSH, it must be funny to watch them play.Very creative.

sumbadder

05-12-2008, 11:59 AM

You guys act as though using strategy is the worst thing for sports. If there were no strategies and tactics involved and everything were as fair as you wanted it to be in life, we wouldn't even be interested in anything at all.

shuzzack

05-12-2008, 12:29 PM

i think the match of HH and JJs is quite funny.both of them looked awkward at the beginning of the match=D

cooler

05-12-2008, 01:04 PM

yah, i would love to watch psh+lhi to play MD together.

ye333

05-12-2008, 01:38 PM

Strategies differ. This particular one makes matches less interesting to watch and makes watching such matches a waste of time.

You guys act as though using strategy is the worst thing for sports. If there were no strategies and tactics involved and everything were as fair as you wanted it to be in life, we wouldn't even be interested in anything at all.

ye333

05-12-2008, 01:39 PM

Maybe HH was such a gentleman that he didn't know what to do? :D

i think the match of HH and JJs is quite funny.both of them looked awkward at the beginning of the match=D

ctjcad

05-12-2008, 02:06 PM

Han

05-12-2008, 03:07 PM

The Korean MD combination makes me laugh...... I praise Malaysia for fielding their best players. At least they can hold their heads up finishing top in the group.

The one that win the title will have the last laugh, Korea target is Final while Malaysia Target is Semi. Is the different way of approaching the problem, we may see Korean way as "ungentle men" but bottom line is to win. Who doesn't want to avoid mighty China in semi? Only Malaysia chose to go head on, brave but may get us all kill :D

Han

05-12-2008, 03:08 PM

Maybe HH was such a gentleman that he didn't know what to do? :D

Is not the first time for HH, Korea had field the same way during Preliminaries :D

kungfukid

05-12-2008, 03:11 PM

yen_saw

05-12-2008, 03:26 PM

The one that win the title will have the last laugh, Korea target is Final while Malaysia Target is Semi. Is the different way of approaching the problem, we may see Korean way as "ungentle men" but bottom line is to win. Who doesn't want to avoid mighty China in semi? Only Malaysia chose to go head on, brave but may get us all kill :D

That's not what I meant.

I just found it funny to see how Korea came up with such a joke on their MD line-up. Wasn't laughing at their strategy on purposely losing it to both Malaysia and England.

BadFrank

05-12-2008, 03:40 PM

Well anyways Canada is going to beat Korea;)

narnia

05-12-2008, 04:07 PM

Now.. with the surprising sacrifice of Korea, every country's got happy at the next stage:

- MAS avoiding to face up with INA
- JPN avoiding to face up with KOR

- KOR should work one more day when the other #1's get some rest. That's their sacrifcial action for other countries. (don't argue. just move forward!)

WELL DONE!

And also in Uber Cup, HK avoiding to meet CHN in earlier stage by their deliberate loss to KOR.

sjoe

05-12-2008, 04:54 PM

If you can't win in elimination round how can you win in Semi or Final ? where is the logic ? it is just about to make you or your paper look better, lost in Final rather then lost in Semi.
Win at all cost ? what cost ? just staying a bit longer in Jakarta this will make the Korean newspaper and media praising their brilliant tactic and achievement to final? only in Korea !
Well Korea you do lost a lot of fans in the world out side your own cocoon. You will regret this very soon.
You either will be remembered as a Saint or Devil in the end. If you were Saint once and done a Devil's thing, people will only remember you as Devil for long time.
Korea, you have stained you bowl of milk. It will remain for long time.

huangkwokhau

05-12-2008, 05:19 PM

LOL LHI+PSH, it must be funny to watch them play.Very creative.
Actualy they did play well...they did try very hard to win..
PSH did not wear any glasses...
LHI played well in Double....not sure if PSH knows how to play double..well...you cant blame him if he does not know how to rotate in double.

reiko80

05-12-2008, 05:36 PM

I guess they figured that they have to use top form if they meet China. If they meet China before the final, they would be mentally and physically exhausted after it and the next team they face will take the advantage. :cool:
korean no balls...............:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

ye333

05-12-2008, 06:22 PM

That's the only good side of this Korean strategy. The players still can try their best.

Actualy they did play well...they did try very hard to win..
PSH did not wear any glasses...
LHI played well in Double....not sure if PSH knows how to play double..well...you cant blame him if he does not know how to rotate in double.

shuzzack

05-12-2008, 07:05 PM

Well anyways Canada is going to beat Korea;)
Ditto..;)
Maybe HH was such a gentleman that he didn't know what to do? :D

maybe:D
thats why they looked like they were going to burst out laugh at that time:D:p

Cheung

05-12-2008, 07:09 PM

..(for comparison purpose) does anyone recall another time/instance, in a TC & UC tourney, in which a squad (other than the 1992 INA TC's squad which intentionally/purposely lost in order to avoid meeting MAS) tried a similar approach as this yr's S. Korean's TC squad had done??..:confused:..1996 TC Korea group match. But I cannot recall if they changed their line up simply to get a favourable result.

Ever seen Ha Tae Kwon play singles?:p

rwijaja

05-12-2008, 07:19 PM

Oh... Korea...
Oh... Korea...
Oh... Korea...
Drum... Drum... Drum
Repeat 100000000 times

Man... I like those chants

taufik-ist

05-12-2008, 07:35 PM

Dimplex

05-12-2008, 07:45 PM

a review of the playing format is needed imho

reiko80

05-12-2008, 07:51 PM

a review of the playing format is needed imho
yup....i agree...only 1st and 2nd in the group will proceed....so korean have no dirty play in their mind....:mad:

KlasseE

05-12-2008, 08:10 PM

look at the comment in Chinese, they have compared the Korean with the Chinese team...
link (http://simplybadminton.blogspot.com/2008/05/blog-post_12.html)

event

05-12-2008, 08:16 PM

not sure if PSH knows how to play doubleHe was World Junior Champion in 2002 in Boys' Doubles. He and Han Sang Hoon beat such big names as Tan Bin Shen in the final, Koo Kien Keat/Ong Soon Hock in the semis, and Guo Zhendong in the quarterfinals.

Park also won 4 of 4 matches in a domestic tournament last week, playing with Hwang Ji Man.

tze yang

05-12-2008, 08:32 PM

george@chongwei

05-12-2008, 09:55 PM

korean no balls...............:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

hahaha, reiko:):D:D:D
its obviously..
if they scare to meet other powerhouse in world of badminton, then how they wants to become a true champion???
they must be a true champion by not scare to any team no matter what though

reiko80

05-12-2008, 10:05 PM

hahaha, reiko:):D:D:D
its obviously..
if they scare to meet other powerhouse in world of badminton, then how they wants to become a true champion???
they must be a true champion by not scare to any team no matter what though
sure gearge....im very dissappointed with them and hope they will loose against canada or denmark.....then they will no whether sky is high:mad::mad::mad:....dirty tactics wont last long.....cheers all...:D

george@chongwei

05-12-2008, 10:07 PM

im sure 2day they will put their full strength team vs canada 2day..

reiko80

05-12-2008, 10:13 PM

im sure 2day they will put their full strength team vs canada 2day..
it means they really have no balls:mad::mad::mad::mad:...canada is easy team than malaysia and england..they should send their school team today:D

george@chongwei

05-12-2008, 10:15 PM

it means they really have no balls:mad::mad::mad::mad:...canada is easy team than malaysia and england..they should send their school team today:D
what about kindergarden team:D?

samuel882

05-12-2008, 10:23 PM

Well anyways Canada is going to beat Korea;)
LOL... Lets pray hard for it:D

george@chongwei

05-12-2008, 10:27 PM

LOL... Lets pray hard for it:D
yeah, lets pary very very very hard for it:D
unless li mao and shon seung mo play together as the 1st duble and ha tae know play as a single:):D:D:D

reiko80

05-12-2008, 10:30 PM

what about kindergarden team:D?
hahahaaaaaa..................sure kindergarden team can beat canada:D

drifit

05-12-2008, 10:56 PM

Tuesday May 13, 2008

Badminton: Blame it on the format, says Korean manager

SOUTH Korea made a total mockery of the Badminton World Federation's (BWF) competition format for the Thomas Cup Finals by openly declaring that their best path to the final is by losing all their group matches.
The new format, allowing all 16 teams to move into the knockout phase, was introduced at the 2004 Finals, also in Jakarta.
Yesterday morning, the Koreans fielded their singles players in the doubles and their doubles specialists in the singles to lose 1-4 to England in their opening Group B tie.
Immediately after the defeat, team manager Kim Jong-soo admitted that they had also plotted to throw away their final group tie against Malaysia last night. The Koreans also lost 1-4.
The reason: South Korea wanted to finish bottom of the three-team group to go into the same quarter of the knockout draw with Denmark.
http://thestar.com.my/archives/2008/5/13/sports/s_pg66kim.jpg The Korean team manager Kim Jong-soo admitted that the team had deliberately lost to England and Malaysia to increase their chances of reaching the final.
If they had beaten both England and Malaysia to top the group, South Korea will go into the same half of the draw as defending champions China.
If they had beaten England but lost to Malaysia and finish second, they go into the same quarter as hosts Indonesia.
South Korea have yet to feature in the Thomas Cup final.
“It was not a late decision. We had discussed all options and settled on finishing last in the group, even before arriving in Jakarta,” said Jong-soo.
“After studying the draw and analysing our strengths and weaknesses, it was best for us to play against Denmark in the quarters, Indonesia in the semis and China in the final. We had to adopt the best strategy to maximise our chances of winning the Cup.”

please read more here
thestar.com.my/sports/story.asp?file=/2008/5/13/sports/21226123&sec=sports

pjswift

05-12-2008, 10:57 PM

In the strategy's point of view, i think korean's tactic is somehow smart. There is no doubt that China team having 3 top MS and 1 top MD is a rank higher than other teams. DEN and INA in my opinion are easier to take care of than CHN. No offense to INA's and DEN's fans.

Somemore, they cannot assure 100% that they can win against MAS in group match to top the Group B. If they failed and became second of the group, they will hav to play INA in QF and DEN in Semi. So in this case, being 3rd is a wise choice.

Besides, by sending weird team formation, they can indeed demolish their opponent's moral if their players manage to secure a win just like wat happenned in the first MD match against MAS.

I think there is no point to raise up critics like lack of sportsman ship or cheating... Strategy is simply part of the game. If they can finally go all the way to final, i think they shud be credited for their use of tactic.

Last but not least, it's not easy to make such decision (to adopt this tactic). They do face a big risk, having to play an extra match and play against two strong teams DEN and INA. But they have made the choice and take the risk, so i see nothing wrong in this matter.

This is my personal point of view.
Totally agree.Brilliant analysis.
There are a few things KOR 's trying to convey in their strategy:
1.BWF's tournament format allows leeway to 'redraw a team's route'.
2.KOR decides to make use of that option.
3.KOR can do it because they are confident of their team's prowess to deliver according to plan.(No team would dare to do it unless they have the confidence because of an extra match,etc )Also, it looks like they are prepared to not make it to final.
4.Actually KOR is doing INA a favour because now INA has ENG for QF. DEN would be unhappy because they have to beat KOR and then INA to get to final.I don't see DEN getting past KOR (but I may get wrong here).Frankly ,the last thing I want to see is DEN in final because they had been one-sided affairs.
5.There's no CHN-style 'cheating' or lack of sportsmanship here because KOR have used the right tactics.The players KOR fielded did not pretend to play poorly.They actually tried their best in an event that's not their specialty.And even won some matches.Unlike CHN style where the players do 'badminton acting'.KOR style creativity makes LYB's tricks look as unimaginative as the alimentary canal.
6.KOR's not afraid of any team but CHN must be so relieved that they can only meet KOR in final(CHN fear KOR the most) provided CHN can get past MAS.Again I wouldn't be surprised if KOR decides to gift INA into the final.
7.One question.Why didn't KOR do it for UC? Why didn't KOR lose to HKG to avoid CHN in UC?

jurong_twister

05-12-2008, 11:15 PM

The Korean has proven one solid evidence that officials at BWF are not qualified. No wonder, Badminton as an extremely exciting sport is going nowhere.

narnia

05-12-2008, 11:33 PM

Actualy they did play well...they did try very hard to win..
PSH did not wear any glasses...
LHI played well in Double....not sure if PSH knows how to play double..well...you cant blame him if he does not know how to rotate in double.

They often play in doubles when they play in national matches in Korea. :D

hcyong

05-12-2008, 11:49 PM

If I were Korea, I would do the same thing. Knowing that 2nd team in the other group is easily beatable helps.

narnia

05-12-2008, 11:49 PM

Totally agree.Brilliant analysis.
7.One question.Why didn't KOR do it for UC? Why didn't KOR lose to HKG to avoid CHN in UC?

Because.... they decided to do that.

- JJY failed to participate in this game so they see less chance to come up to the Final as before.
- HK fielded weak players to avoid facing CHN in earlier stage.

narnia

05-12-2008, 11:53 PM

If I were Korea, I would do the same thing. Knowing that 2nd team in the other group is easily beatable helps.

In history, they never come to the Final. And now they could think this would be a great chance with their current abilities. Isn't Badminton a thinking sports?? :D

hcyong

05-13-2008, 12:02 AM

If I were BWF, I'd scrap the last 16 round, and add another day to the group matches. 1st and 2nd placed teams go straight to the quarterfinals where a draw is made to determine the 1st team - 2nd team pairing.

1. 4 groups of 3 teams each, like existing format (played over 3 days so that no team has to play twice in one day)
2. Last team eliminated
3. 1st teams go into Pool 1, 2nd teams go into Pool 2
4. QF and SF lots are drawn, QF pairing consists of one team from Pool 1 and another from Pool 2. Teams that were in the same group cannot be paired in the QF.

No one will conspire to finish second, don't even mention third.

abedeng

05-13-2008, 12:16 AM

If I were BWF, I'd scrap the last 16 round, and add another day to the group matches. 1st and 2nd placed teams go straight to the quarterfinals where a draw is made to determine the 1st team - 2nd team pairing.

Yup, what I can't understand is that they did this for the qualifiers, but not in the finals.

It's almost like in a football match, where there is an offside rule in the qualification round, but such rule in the final rounds.

hcyong

05-13-2008, 12:22 AM

Totally agree.Brilliant analysis.
There are a few things KOR 's trying to convey in their strategy:
1.BWF's tournament format allows leeway to 'redraw a team's route'.
2.KOR decides to make use of that option.
3.KOR can do it because they are confident of their team's prowess to deliver according to plan.(No team would dare to do it unless they have the confidence because of an extra match,etc )Also, it looks like they are prepared to not make it to final.
4.Actually KOR is doing INA a favour because now INA has ENG for QF. DEN would be unhappy because they have to beat KOR and then INA to get to final.I don't see DEN getting past KOR (but I may get wrong here).Frankly ,the last thing I want to see is DEN in final because they had been one-sided affairs.
5.There's no CHN-style 'cheating' or lack of sportsmanship here because KOR have used the right tactics.The players KOR fielded did not pretend to play poorly.They actually tried their best in an event that's not their specialty.And even won some matches.Unlike CHN style where the players do 'badminton acting'.KOR style creativity makes LYB's tricks look as unimaginative as the alimentary canal.
6.KOR's not afraid of any team but CHN must be so relieved that they can only meet KOR in final(CHN fear KOR the most) provided CHN can get past MAS.Again I wouldn't be surprised if KOR decides to gift INA into the final.
7.One question.Why didn't KOR do it for UC? Why didn't KOR lose to HKG to avoid CHN in UC?

3. I would say the opposite. Given a multiple choice path (a) CHN in SF (b) INA in QF, DEN in SF, CHN in F (c) DEN in QF, INA in SF, CHN in F, it is easy to see why they went for (c). But it is not being positive. If your target is to win the Thomas Cup, then you have to beat everyone, whether you face them in the first round or the final. KOR's attitude shows that they want to maximise their chance of advancing to the final, but they do not have the confidence to beat CHN and win the whole thing.

5. CHN-style 'cheating' comes in individual events. You either have to fake injury or underperform. There is no way you can substitute the player in individual events. Technically, I would not call the KOR-style as cheating. KOR style is to purposely handicap themselves while still trying their best. In football, CHN style is to keep scoring own goals. KOR style is to use the goalkeeper as striker, striker as defender etc.

narnia

05-13-2008, 12:29 AM

They do?Oh yea, it landed on their side of the court more often than not yesterday.

NO AUS IN THIS GAME?? I CAN SEE ONLY NZL. :eek:

sjoe

05-13-2008, 12:35 AM

3. I would say the opposite. Given a multiple choice path (a) CHN in SF (b) INA in QF, DEN in SF, CHN in F (c) DEN in QF, INA in SF, CHN in F, it is easy to see why they went for (c). But it is not being positive. If your target is to win the Thomas Cup, then you have to beat everyone, whether you face them in the first round or the final. KOR's attitude shows that they want to maximise their chance of advancing to the final, but they do not have the confidence to beat CHN and win the whole thing.

5. CHN-style 'cheating' comes in individual events. You either have to fake injury or underperform. There is no way you can substitute the player in individual events. Technically, I would not call the KOR-style as cheating. KOR style is to purposely handicap themselves while still trying their best. In football, CHN style is to keep scoring own goals. KOR style is to use the goalkeeper as striker, striker as defender etc.

I call them both sneaky. Reflex their official's mentality. Feel sorry to them, my sympathy goes to the players. What do they teach to their youngsters?

jimbo

05-13-2008, 12:39 AM

I call them both sneaky. Reflex their official's mentality. Feel sorry to them, my sympathy goes to the players. What do they teach to their youngsters?

Win at all costs. The game is no longer beautiful, just like football. :crying:

sjoe

05-13-2008, 12:42 AM

Win at all costs. The game is no longer beautiful, just like football. :crying:

I start to wonder now, were the lines judges in KO are part of the strategy to win at all cost?
Korea do no proud, stained their reputations.

jimbo

05-13-2008, 12:45 AM

I start to wonder now, were the lines judges in KO are part of the strategy to win at all cost?
Korea do no proud, stained their reputations.

I really wanted to know if there were any "riots" in the stadium by the local fans after watching the Kimchi doing the "impossible" :cool:

narnia

05-13-2008, 01:54 AM

I really wanted to know if there were any "riots" in the stadium by the local fans after watching the Kimchi doing the "impossible" :cool:

No there weren't. Sorry for not fitting your expectation. :cool:

narnia

05-13-2008, 01:55 AM

Win at all costs. The game is no longer beautiful, just like football. :crying:

Let's see how MAS plays against CHN. Bolehhhh! :D

sophiaJ

05-13-2008, 02:01 AM

imagine if korea lift the Thomas Cup....XOXO
seriously irony...

sophiaJ

05-13-2008, 02:03 AM

anyone know the line up for korea against canada?

ronnie14

05-13-2008, 03:07 AM

omigod,seriously, these ppl are desperate..its sweet to win but sweeter when it is ethically polite and honest :)

modious

05-13-2008, 03:38 AM

anyone know the line up for korea against canada?

Now Korea is playing serious

OrderEventCanada (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/team.aspx?id=20003&team=2)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] -http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] Korea (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/team.aspx?id=20003&team=5)ScorePoints
DurationCourt 1MS1 Andrew Dabeka (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=41)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=CAN) - http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=KOR)Sung Hwan Park (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=49)

2MD1 William Milroy (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=46)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=CAN) Mike Beres (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=45)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=CAN) - http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=KOR)Jae Sung Jung (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=54) http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=KOR)Yong Dae Lee (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=56)

3MS2 Bobby Milroy (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=42)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=CAN) - http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=KOR)Hyun Ii Lee (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=50)

4MD2 Alvin Lau (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=48)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=CAN) Toby Ng (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=47)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=CAN) - http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=KOR)Jae Jin Lee (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=53) http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=KOR)Ji Man Hwang (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=55)

5MS3 Stephan Wojcikiewicz (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=43)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=CAN) - http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=KOR)Ji Hoon Hong (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=52)

sugar_free

05-13-2008, 03:44 AM

Finally!!! The REAL line up...

Dato Asbullah

05-13-2008, 04:09 AM

There is nothing special to be blame of when KOR doing such weird tactics in TC. It's part of the game. Other team i dont think they dare to do so. LCW&WCH plays MD? or BCL&LD?

KOR did not do any wrong thing or against the regulations set by BWF.

Even Manchester United also did it when they met with AS Roma in the CL semifinal 1 leg match.

extremenanopowe

05-13-2008, 04:47 AM

again as most agreed. BWF made a boo boo out of this. Imagine the prize money or incentives for entering a final. There's a lot of money for those who need the money... Let alone winning the cup. Can forget about OG and retire.

AlanY

05-13-2008, 05:04 AM

sjoe

05-13-2008, 05:17 AM

what i dont understand is if indeed there is an advantage to lose all your group matches thus at the bottom of your group for the next round. why on earth the other 2 teams let them have their way? it will be fun if all 3 teams try their best to lose!

The reason is that the other two teams don't have the same level of mentality. It need a very big courage to be shamed and only few dare go to that level.

sophiaJ

05-13-2008, 05:20 AM

Now Korea is playing serious

OrderEventCanada (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/team.aspx?id=20003&team=2)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] -http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] Korea (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/team.aspx?id=20003&team=5)ScorePoints
DurationCourt 1MS1 Andrew Dabeka (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=41)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=CAN) - http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=KOR)Sung Hwan Park (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=49)

2MD1 William Milroy (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=46)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=CAN) Mike Beres (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=45)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=CAN) - http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=KOR)Jae Sung Jung (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=54) http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=KOR)Yong Dae Lee (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=56)

3MS2 Bobby Milroy (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=42)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=CAN) - http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=KOR)Hyun Ii Lee (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=50)

4MD2 Alvin Lau (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=48)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=CAN) Toby Ng (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=47)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=CAN) - http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=KOR)Jae Jin Lee (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=53) http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=KOR)Ji Man Hwang (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=55)

5MS3 Stephan Wojcikiewicz (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=43)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CAN.gif[CAN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=CAN) - http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=20003&c=KOR)Ji Hoon Hong (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=20003&player=52)
thanks....
finally no more circus show from korea...
i keep on laughing on ytd's match...=P

Pemuda

05-13-2008, 06:05 AM

I dont see anything wrong with Korea mixing up their shuttlers. No rules were broken. Its the same as in football, for example, if SAF wants to field his reserves, it is within his rights to do so.

Anyway, the real TC begins at the semis stage. Now, the big guns are just going thru the motion. It is a like a beach party.

demolidor

05-13-2008, 06:27 AM

what i dont understand is if indeed there is an advantage to lose all your group matches thus at the bottom of your group for the next round. why on earth the other 2 teams let them have their way? it will be fun if all 3 teams try their best to lose!

In that particular group finishing first or third was the best option to reach the semifinals so 2nd place was to be avoided at all cost. Korea let Malaysia take first spot and opted to end up 3rd themselves. England really wouldn't benefit finishing 1st, 2nd or 3rd as they are never going to reach the SF in any scenario (facing Japan, Denmark or Indonesia next) ;):p.

LazyBuddy

05-13-2008, 06:40 AM

5.There's no CHN-style 'cheating' or lack of sportsmanship here because KOR have used the right tactics.The players KOR fielded did not pretend to play poorly.They actually tried their best in an event that's not their specialty.And even won some matches.Unlike CHN style where the players do 'badminton acting'.KOR style creativity makes LYB's tricks look as unimaginative as the alimentary canal.

Great, are we seeing double standard here again? Yes, the players did not pretend to play poorly. The coaches make sure the lineup is weak enough to lose regardless. So, the coach pretend the team to perform poorly to begin with.

So, on purposely picking out a much weaker lineup and make the competition less competitive is alright, while file a W/O is much worse? I mean, besides the weired line up create some funny talks, I really don't think it gives more to the fans, who come and expect a real line up of fight.

By your logic, if you are an NBA coach, you bench you all stars all the time, and only send out the benches / force center and point guard playing reverse roles, and tell them to "fight hard and have fun". You think they should award you "coach of the year"? Because, "at least, they fought hard"?

To me, either way of the "strategy" is understandable from the coach/player point of view. However, I won't try to distinguish which one is better than another. Either way, it's try to max. the chances for the team's success, at the cost of fan's expectation. If you understand it, either way is alright. If you pay top $$$ and come with high hope of "real fight", either way, you feel disappointed. :cool:

event

05-13-2008, 06:47 AM

I really wanted to know if there were any "riots" in the stadium by the local fans after watching the Kimchi doing the "impossible" :cool:"watching the Kimchi"? Nice talk.

kungfukid

05-13-2008, 06:48 AM

omigod,seriously, these ppl are desperate..its sweet to win but sweeter when it is ethically polite and honest :)
There is nothing to be related to ethic in this matter. I don't really understand y u guys think this tactic is dirty. From what i read from malaysian chinese press, MAS team has analysed all the options too, including this one of course, but they chose to take the other one which they think it's the best for them(having a day rest n affront CHN in semi). it's part of the team event to opt for the strategy that u think it's the best for ur team.

snasirin

05-13-2008, 06:53 AM

Koreans are loosers anyway. Go Japan go!

newjazz

05-13-2008, 08:00 AM

It's: Korea vs BWF: 5 - 0!

Korea team have shown all of us how stupid this tournament system and how stupid BWF!
Really unbelievable!

badadum

05-13-2008, 08:16 AM

It's: Korea vs BWF: 5 - 0!

Korea team have shown all of us how stupid this tournament system and how stupid BWF!
Really unbelievable!

They still have to play against DEN and INA. Not much difference from being runner up of group B, just a reverse order. I don't see why they should go in a roundabout way to play the team they've to beat anyway to go to finals.

eaglehelang

05-13-2008, 08:19 AM

They still have to play against DEN and INA. Not much difference from being runner up of group B, just a reverse order. I don't see why they should go in a roundabout way to play the team they've to beat anyway to go to finals.

So that if they do lose, it'll be losing in Semi & not QF to Indonesia ?;)

badadum

05-13-2008, 08:32 AM

So that if they do lose, it'll be losing in Semi & not QF to Indonesia ?;)

End result will be the same. They'll either lose to the Great Danes or to INA :p

Dreamzz

05-13-2008, 08:39 AM

i actually think they'll beat both DEN and INA.
and i think if LYD/JJS can beat CY/FHF, they could win the cup!

hyun007

05-13-2008, 09:16 AM

sophiaJ

05-13-2008, 09:17 AM

lets say CHN vs KOR in Finale..
i think KOR can bet on both double and 2nd single hyun il to win their first ever Thomas Cup...^_^

newjazz

05-13-2008, 09:22 AM

I don't know what the fuss about. I think it is a good strategy. Korea has good chance against Denmark as Denmark double is not that consistence as before.

I think the manager is brilliant as he pick an easier path that could possibily lead to final. For those who have been complaining about Korea lineup, if you look at previous TC, they have been doing the same thing many times.

Of course it is going to be very tough against Indonesia who is playing on home ground but I think it is a better choice than against China for a final spot. If they can beat Indonesia on home ground, they have a good chance against China.

I think it's nothing wrong with the strategy. It's brilliant! I agree!

It just something really not right here! The whole system... stupid system..
how can a team losing twice in group stage still can go thru to the next round? don't you think something it's wrong with the system?

If this stupid system still happen again and again in badminton.. badminton will never reach the same level as other "world class" sports...

sophiaJ

05-13-2008, 09:26 AM

I think it's nothing wrong with the strategy. It's brilliant! I agree!

It just something really not right here! The whole system... stupid system..
how can a team losing twice in group stage still can go thru to the next round? don't you think something it's wrong with the system?

If this stupid system still happen again and again in badminton.. badminton will never reach the same level as other "world class" sports...

i think they are taking care of the weaker countries...
to make it a better way for all..
imagine they travel all the way to Indonesia with self expense only to play two matches and loses it and go back to own country...
but koreans are taking advantages of the system....

ctjcad

05-13-2008, 09:26 AM

i actually think they'll beat both DEN and INA.
and i think if LYD/JJS can beat CY/FHF, they could win the cup!
lets say CHN vs KOR in Finale..
i think KOR can bet on both double and 2nd single hyun il to win their first ever Thomas Cup...^_^
..that was the case, and if indeed the KOR's TC squad believe they can beat CHN (with both squads healthy/no injuries), WHY can't they just face team CHN head on, before the Final??..:confused: :p :confused: :confused:..Why the wait til the Final??..:confused: :confused:

sophiaJ

05-13-2008, 09:29 AM

..that was the case, and if indeed the KOR's TC squad believe they can beat CHN, WHY can't they just face team CHN head on, before the Final??..:confused: :p :confused: :confused:..Why the wait til the Final??..:confused: :confused:

part of their "Strategy"?
to meet the strongest at final will be more secure...

badadum

05-13-2008, 09:31 AM

..that was the case, and if indeed the KOR's TC squad believe they can beat CHN, WHY can't they just face team CHN head on, before the Final??..:confused: :p :confused: :confused:..Why the wait til the Final??..:confused: :confused:

Hence my earlier question. They still have to play the same team regardless. So what if they're going to play DEN/INA in QF or SF?? Either they win or got beat....same result.

sophiaJ

05-13-2008, 09:37 AM

it's quite funny..
koreans are those who protects their dignity a lot
still a mystery why they act in such way..

pjswift

05-13-2008, 09:39 AM

ctjcad

05-13-2008, 09:49 AM

1996 TC Korea group match. But I cannot recall if they changed their line up simply to get a favourable result.

Ever seen Ha Tae Kwon play singles?:p
...for the info, Cheung. Ah, so it happened before and tried by the KOR squad also. So, what was the result??
No, haven't seen HTK played singles before....:p ;)

Akim1

05-13-2008, 09:54 AM

The Korean has proven one solid evidence that officials at BWF are not qualified. No wonder, Badminton as an extremely exciting sport is going nowhere.

The only thing the koreans have proven is that they will do absolutely everything to win. This time they didn't break any rules, they only proved that there is no korean word for sportsmanship.
No wonder the other countries attending Korean Open are being cheated by biased line judges.
No wonder Lin Dan blew his top in KO this year.
No wonder Taufik has left matches in Korea and now is staying away from tournaments in this crazy country.

pjswift

05-13-2008, 09:54 AM

I think it's nothing wrong with the strategy. It's brilliant! I agree!

It just something really not right here! The whole system... stupid system..
how can a team losing twice in group stage still can go thru to the next round? don't you think something it's wrong with the system?

If this stupid system still happen again and again in badminton.. badminton will never reach the same level as other "world class" sports...
Look at it this way:
1.Are draws perfectly fair? To which team? It boils down to draw criteria and then luck.
2.If you don't like the draw and there's a way to change your route, why not? But the modified way is actually tougher. In the process,DEN suddenly have to work for a SF berth whilst INA have just been gifted into SF since they can just stroll over an ENG team that's fielded for exposure.DEN may end up the greatest loser because of KOR's strategy.

eaglehelang

05-13-2008, 09:55 AM

..that was the case, and if indeed the KOR's TC squad believe they can beat CHN (with both squads healthy/no injuries), WHY can't they just face team CHN head on, before the Final??..:confused: :p :confused: :confused:..Why the wait til the Final??..:confused: :confused:

Like I said earlier, if they lose, losing in Semi is not as bad as losing in QF. They wanted to avoid meeting Indonesia early cos Indonesia playing on home ground.
Korea vs China, odds are still in favour of China. China's 3 MS still good. China 2nd MD did manage to beat Korea MD1 in India Open, so..... if they meet China early, less chance of going finals.

Like some said, Msia is considered either brave or stupid for 'choosing' to meet China in Semi. Of course, based current form, Msia has less chance of winning against China compared to Korea.

ctjcad

05-13-2008, 09:57 AM

part of their "Strategy"?
to meet the strongest at final will be more secure...
..but i thought you just posted (post #167) that the KOR's TC squad has a better lineup than CHN (win both doubles and 1 singles), so why wait til the Final??;)..What are they waiting and hoping for??..what "strategy"??..;)
For reasons best known to them, KOR prefer not to have a direct clash with CHN. KOR's expecting MAS to take out CHN. Also when KOR opted for this route, they are confident of defeating DEN and INA.What makes you think CHN will reach the final?
..are you asking me??:confused:..I thought most people, even the KOR's TC squad believe CHN will be in the Final??..;)

Logic says: If the KOR's TC squad indeed truly believes deep in their heart of hearts that they can take out and defeat CHN (both teams full strength), like what Dreamzz and sophiaJ had written above, then they should take CHN head on, early before the Final, don't you think so??.:cool:
Avoiding them until the Final round shows 1 thing: they're not 100% confident and proabably expect other teams to take out CHN or worst (God forbid) CHN team suffers injury(ies) to its player(s).:p
Like I said earlier, if they lose, losing in Semi is not as bad as losing in QF. They wanted to avoid meeting Indonesia early cos Indonesia playing on home ground.
Korea vs China, odds are still in favour of China. China's 3 MS still good. China 2nd MD did manage to beat Korea MD1 in India Open, so..... if they meet China early, less chance of going finals.
...
..i was referring to Dreamzz's and sophiaJ's posts about KOR meeting and beating CHN. Not whether they will lose to INA or in SF or QF..;)

pjswift

05-13-2008, 09:58 AM

Like I said earlier, if they lose, losing in Semi is not as bad as losing in QF. They wanted to avoid meeting Indonesia early cos Indonesia playing on home ground.
Korea vs China, odds are still in favour of China. China's 3 MS still good. China 2nd MD did manage to beat Korea MD1 in India Open, so..... if they meet China early, less chance of going finals.

Like some said, Msia is considered either brave or stupid for 'choosing' to meet China in Semi. Of course, based current form, Msia has less chance of winning against China compared to Korea.
Have MAS beaten CHN before in TC?

reiko80

05-13-2008, 10:02 AM

Have MAS beaten CHN before in TC?
yup...but i forgot on in what year???:D

sophiaJ

05-13-2008, 10:05 AM

2002 in china..semi final

eaglehelang

05-13-2008, 10:06 AM

Have MAS beaten CHN before in TC?

The last time was 2002 TC, only WCH, LWW/CTF was with that team, I think. Msia beat China 3-1. That year, Msia lost to Indonesia in finals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Thomas_Cup

sophiaJ

05-13-2008, 10:07 AM

..but i thought you just posted (post #167) that the KOR's TC squad has a better lineup than CHN (win both doubles and 1 singles), so why wait til the Final??;)..What are they waiting and hoping for??..what "strategy"??..;)

..are you asking me??:confused:..I thought most people, even the KOR's TC squad believe CHN will be in the Final??..;)

Logic says: If the KOR's TC squad indeed truly believes deep in their heart of hearts that they can take out and defeat CHN (both teams full strength), like what Dreamzz and sophiaJ had written above, then they should take CHN head on, early before the Final, don't you think so??.:cool:
Avoiding them until the Final round shows 1 thing: they're not 100% confident and proabably expect other teams to take out CHN or worst (God forbid) CHN team suffers injury(ies) to its player(s).:p

..i was referring to Dreamzz's and sophiaJ's posts about KOR meeting and beating CHN. Not whether they will lose to INA or in SF or QF..;)

it's more secure lah as i said...

eaglehelang

05-13-2008, 10:18 AM

Oh yeah, while we're at it, also in 1994 TC in Semi Finals, Msia beat China 4-1. The rest of the time, they didnt meet in QF or Semi

ctjcad

05-13-2008, 10:19 AM

it's more secure lah as i said...
..what happened to your post #167 talk??..No confidence until the Final ar??..:confused:;)

sugar_free

05-13-2008, 10:26 AM

The last time was 2002 TC, only WCH, LWW/CTF was with that team, I think. Msia beat China 3-1. That year, Msia lost to Indonesia in finals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Thomas_Cup

Yeah i remember that, Mal lost the 1st MS, then won the 1st MD, 2nd MS, and 2nd MD... 2nd MS: Bao Chunlai won the first 2 game against Hafiz, than lost the last 3...:rolleyes:
In the finals, Hendrawan sealed the win from Indo after beating Roslin, i think in the 3rd MS... And that is the last time Indo won thomas cup...:crying:

Btw, i thought we're talking about Korea....

sophiaJ

05-13-2008, 10:28 AM

..what happened to your post #167 talk??..No confidence until the Final ar??..:confused:;)
aiyoyo....
cannot communicate with you....
i myself feel dizzy liao....=P

ye333

05-13-2008, 10:39 AM

Didn't HH deliver a crucial point by beating BCL in that Thomas cup?

The last time was 2002 TC, only WCH, LWW/CTF was with that team, I think. Msia beat China 3-1. That year, Msia lost to Indonesia in finals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Thomas_Cup

sugar_free

05-13-2008, 10:40 AM

Didn't HH deliver a crucial point by beating BCL in that Thomas cup?
Yes he did, after losing the first 2 games...

ye333

05-13-2008, 10:40 AM

How can you forget 1992 TC when Sidek beat the mighty ZJH? :eek:

Oh yeah, while we're at it, also in 1994 TC in Semi Finals, Msia beat China 4-1. The rest of the time, they didnt meet in QF or Semi

ye333

05-13-2008, 10:41 AM

That's a crucial point in BCL's career... After that he was gradually replaced by LD. :cool:

Yes he did, after losing the first 2 games...

eaglehelang

05-13-2008, 10:45 AM

Btw, i thought we're talking about Korea....

Yup, abt strategy, Korea want to avoid China & Indonesia. As comparision, Msia's 'strategy' of taking China head on, so someone asked if Msia ever beat China bf....Msia did 2 X

Didn't HH deliver a crucial point by beating BCL in that Thomas cup?

Yup, he did. But this time around Bao will be MS2, against WCH. Hafiz has to face Chen Jin, China wouldnt field Chen Yu in a crucial match. This time too, looks like hinges on WCH & Hafiz, % of LCW winning against LD is not high.

madbad

05-13-2008, 10:47 AM

Huge difference between the KOR mental approach and the MAS mental approach.

MAS = goal is to make the SF. KOR = win the whole dang thing.

So what has MAS got to lose by winning the group. Their passage to the SF is easier and almost guaranteed. So what if they meet CHN there? They will have already achieved their goal.

KOR on the other hand comes with a strategy where they can pick and choose their opponents in the playoff rounds. While making a mockery of the system, it is nonetheless a sound strategy, and may I add, not cheating. If they make it to the final, they look like geniuses. If they don't, at least give them credit for having a game plan.

I did have a chuckle at their bizarre line-ups in the preliminary round matches. And while I didn't really enjoy them making the tournament a farce, I can see why they did it.

eaglehelang

05-13-2008, 10:51 AM

How can you forget 1992 TC when Sidek beat the mighty ZJH? :eek:

Sori, sori, that year Msia won the Cup mah, forgot abt earlier stage.

Anyway, as with strategies , it's a risk to take this route but a risk Korea's willing to take since they never won bf & I think never reach final bf also.

samuel882

05-13-2008, 12:21 PM

think it postive way :)
How many chances we will get to watch Lee HI/PSI Playing in doubles & Lee JJ/Hwang JM/Lee YD etc play in single? Near to 0% in any Super series :p

ye333

05-13-2008, 01:00 PM

Yes. I watched Thomas Cup preliminary. It's very entertaining. :D

It would be nice if other countries can do this once in a few years. Wouldn't a LD/BCL vs. TH/SDK MD match worth collecting? Or a FHF vs. Markis Kido MS? :D I have seen ppl wondering what would a RKM vs. GL WS be like... :cool:

think it postive way :)
How many chances we will get to watch Lee HI/PSI Playing in doubles & Lee JJ/Hwang JM/Lee YD etc play in single? Near to 0% in any Super series :p

LazyBuddy

05-13-2008, 01:15 PM

Look at it this way:
1.Are draws perfectly fair? To which team? It boils down to draw criteria and then luck.
2.If you don't like the draw and there's a way to change your route, why not? But the modified way is actually tougher. In the process,DEN suddenly have to work for a SF berth whilst INA have just been gifted into SF since they can just stroll over an ENG team that's fielded for exposure.DEN may end up the greatest loser because of KOR's strategy.

I hope you speak the same way, when you and/or others bashing CHN coach/players. If they have the luxury to get an easier "next round" w/o breaking any written rules, why they are cursed all over the place here? :rolleyes:

Here's something i see in the discussions. Once come to CHN team, everyone picking the dirts. Suddenly, everyone is honest, everyone has a class, everyone is talking like god. Once come to others, they are brilliant, they did not break any rules, etc... :mad:

Oh, mind to remind you, CHN has more to suffer from the "systems", as it being hit the hardest with the OG qualification. :cool:

Jasonvan

05-13-2008, 01:40 PM

I hope you speak the same way, when you and/or others bashing CHN coach/players. If they have the luxury to get an easier "next round" w/o breaking any written rules, why they are cursed all over the place here? :rolleyes:

Here's something i see in the discussions. Once come to CHN team, everyone picking the dirts. Suddenly, everyone is honest, everyone has a class, everyone is talking like god. Once come to others, they are brilliant, they did not break any rules, etc... :mad:

Oh, mind to remind you, CHN has more to suffer from the "systems", as it being hit the hardest with the OG qualification. :cool:

Totally agree with you, but than things are NEVER fair against China... They're probably picked on the most here....

ye333

05-13-2008, 01:44 PM

LazyBuddy

05-13-2008, 01:47 PM

Totally agree with you, but than things are NEVER fair against China... They're probably picked on the most here....

To me, I believe ppl has the nature feeling of "sour grape" when others can be more successful. There's no shame to admit it. As everyone can have "red eyes" when ppl around you have a better stance. However, the thing I can't take is, ppl who are jealous, trying to put on a "fair and honest" mask, when they whinning.

Anyway, back to the original topic. No need to create another endless debate to see who's better or worse, when applying whatever strategies. The goal for the coach and players are simple - win at any cost. :o

LazyBuddy

05-13-2008, 01:56 PM

Whether the two situations are "similar", it seems different people has different opinions.

I personally think they are different (To prevent some misunderstanding, I re-state here my opinion that the Korean strategy should be blamed). TC is a team event. Every team has the right to choose which players to field. On the other hand, I don't think in a singles event, a player has the right to fake an injury.

Whether an injury is faked, we don't have any proof. Therefore, by law, it's still a legal move. Every pro has some degree of injuries. Therefore, if someone raise his/her hand can say, "i feel sick", then s/he has every rights to take a break. If a coach has the rights to say who to be field, then the player has his/her own rights about whether s/he feels good enough to play through sickness/injuries or purely laziness. ;)

We as fans using our common sense to judge the matter. For CHN, we don't believe a player can be that easily injuried especially facing a teammate. For KOR, we don't really believe the screwing lineup actually trying to steal a W due to surprise. However, by the current law, they are all perfectly legal.

For us, if we feel dizzy when we wake up, we can calling in sick. Usually, your boss won't force you to provide a doctor's note if you only take 1 day or a few hours off. Of course, ppl can say that you are lazy, making excuse to stay at home for the day, but as long as they don't have proof, they can't accuse you "fake sickness" by law. Therefore, you won't be fired, because you take a day off, regardless whether the sickness is serious enough to really prevent you from work.

Whether it's using a weaker line up to abuse the system, or take a w/o to help teammates, it did NOT break any written law, from the way the teams present it. Even though as our fans, we don't have to like it, we need to face the reality.

Also, even though the approach from both teams are very different, the result is the same - take advantage of the system, and max. it's own chance of success, whether it's a team, a coach, a particular player, etc.

To me, it's the same result as well - a lackness competitive match for that particular round. Hey, CHN players only make 1 game to be boring. KOR made 10 (yeah, they did fought and did even won some, but overall, all 10 are less competitive than it suppose to be)... :D

LazyBuddy

05-13-2008, 02:02 PM

Another way to explain the difference. The Korean team is trying to maximize its chance of winning the title; A Chinese player giving a WO in an individual event is not trying to maximize his/her chance of winning the title (or even future, bigger titles). To me this is a huge difference. But of course my experience tells me many people don't think so.

If you are doing something wrong, whether your intention is for yourself or others, you are doing someting wrong. There's no better degree or not. Put this way, if you rob a bank, you are a robber. Whether you use the money for your own pleasure, or you use the money to help your friend, you are cause the same degree of damage to the bank and the society image.

If we are really arguing the difference, then I will praise the CHN players giving up their own chance for others, while the KOR is doing all the damage to the sports for themsevles. :D Ok, ppl don't shoot me. :p

yen_saw

05-13-2008, 02:13 PM

The chinese W/O and Korea line ups are basically the same idea. Chosing a better alternative to finish in better position. Whether it is right or wrong that's not for us to judge. The whole moral vs rule issues been discussed so many times.

ye333

05-13-2008, 03:34 PM

As I said, different people will have different opinion about how similar the two situations are, due to different weights put on various aspects. For example, you put no weight on the difference I mentioned (intention) while I put substantial weight on it. So let's stop here. :cool:

Btw, I would like to see players be more selfish, with grabbing the highest glory their only goal. :D

If you are doing something wrong, whether your intention is for yourself or others, you are doing someting wrong. There's no better degree or not. Put this way, if you rob a bank, you are a robber. Whether you use the money for your own pleasure, or you use the money to help your friend, you are cause the same degree of damage to the bank and the society image.

If we are really arguing the difference, then I will praise the CHN players giving up their own chance for others, while the KOR is doing all the damage to the sports for themsevles. :D Ok, ppl don't shoot me. :p

ctjcad

05-13-2008, 04:52 PM

...
KOR on the other hand comes with a strategy where they can pick and choose their opponents in the playoff rounds. While making a mockery of the system, it is nonetheless a sound strategy, and may I add, not cheating. If they make it to the final, they look like geniuses. If they don't, at least give them credit for having a game plan.

I did have a chuckle at their bizarre line-ups in the preliminary round matches. And while I didn't really enjoy them making the tournament a farce, I can see why they did it.
...in the airline industry, there's a safety system used by airlines/control tower to warn airplanes of impending mid-air collisions; it's called the TCAS "Traffic Collision Avoidance System".
But after seeing all the actions on the 2nd day of competition, in this current BWF TC & UC, i think i have to give a new definition of TCAS, , called the "Thomas Cup Avoidance System"..:rolleyes: :p

I think what the KOR team manager and other coaches as well as some of the BCers had mentioned are correct. This current TC & UC system is really a joke & dubious and BWF needs to take a look at this system.
I looked around the other mainstream sports and i ONLY see this system being used in BWF (badminton); in a way, i'd say BWF is to blame for implementing this system. Who in the world would allow losing teams to still compete in a playoff and have a chance to win it all?? Not in the NBA, MLB or maybe even in soccer??...This is like going in reverse, having teams determine the seedings for the elimination round DURING their group play...:p

Anyway...i can't imagine if M'sia would've done the same approach as what team Korea did. Or if other teams did the same, all throwing their ties away in hope to avoid playing China...:eek: :rolleyes: :(:p
aiyoyo....
cannot communicate with you....
i myself feel dizzy liao....=P
..you feel dizzy, i'm totally combobulated;)....Anyway, hope and pray the KOR squad at least reaches the Final. If not, so much for the "more secure path lah" theory..;)

BMcentral

05-13-2008, 06:20 PM

Jealous is a human instinct, so guess what, chill out and play more badminton. :) blame who ever you want but keep it off this board.:cool:

Dato Asbullah

05-13-2008, 08:11 PM

economet

05-13-2008, 08:18 PM

I asked Ha Tae Kwon why this funny lineup in the preliminary round in Vietnam was chosen.

The answer was: Because of the flight schedule they were forced to depart five hours after the beginning of the match against MAS.

The only alternative not to give up was to play in this order while hoping the match would not last long.

Due to the three weeks Europe tournament tour they had to fly back to Seoul and to Germany on the same day. MAS didn't take part in German Open adn thus under no time pressure. The same happened to the Japanese Squad whose chief Park Joobong I also asked. Fortunately, they didn't have to play in the finals round.

Unfortunate for Korean players, they did well with the scratched pairs, so there was no time for PSH and others to take shower. They rushed to the airport in order to get the flight.

They had the option to give up, but that was not eligible.
I did have a chuckle at their bizarre line-ups in the preliminary round matches. And while I didn't really enjoy them making the tournament a farce, I can see why they did it.

Pemuda

05-13-2008, 08:37 PM

I don't know what the fuss about. I think it is a good strategy. Korea has good chance against Denmark as Denmark double is not that consistence as before.

I think the manager is brilliant as he pick an easier path that could possibily lead to final. For those who have been complaining about Korea lineup, if you look at previous TC, they have been doing the same thing many times.

Of course it is going to be very tough against Indonesia who is playing on home ground but I think it is a better choice than against China for a final spot. If they can beat Indonesia on home ground, they have a good chance against China.

I agree. This is called strategy. When Korea mixed their lineup around, I see absolutely no wrong with it. No rules were broken. As for those paying fans, to put it directly when they purchased their tickets, there were no "Teams being required to field their best lineup" printed on it type of thingy.

To me, the Koreans were smart to make full use of their chances.

Pemuda

05-13-2008, 08:39 PM

BWF did not only let KOR to do it, every other team can do it. So BWF is fair to all. If MAS, CHN or INA dare not to do it like what KOR did, they just cAnt simply shoot on KOR.

I am waiting on KOR fanz to defend their team on this topic.

Right on Dato!

Actually there is nothing for those Korean fans to defend. Their team broke no rules. :D

hcyong

05-13-2008, 09:19 PM

Exhibit A
Table
Country A 1st team (P1, W1 - beat Country B 5-0)
Country B team (P2, W1 - beat Country A2 4-1, L1 - lost to Country A1 0-5)
Country A 2nd team (P1, L1 - lost to Country B 1-4)
Last match of the group involves both teams of Country A. Country A wants to take both the top spots. Easy, just conspire to let the 2nd team beat the 1st team 4-1.

Exhibit B
Table
Country A team (P1, W1 - beat Country B 5-0)
Country B team (P2, W1 - beat Country C 4-1, L1 - lost to Country A 0-5)
Country C team (P1, L1 - lost to Country B 1-4)
Last match of the group involves Country A and Country C. For stategic reasons, Country A wants to finish second due to circumstances in other groups. So, it conspires to lose to Country C 5-0.

Similarities
1. Sneaky. Both deny Country B their rightful second place finish.
2. Both are fixing matches, making it uninteresting for spectators.
3. Both are perfectly legal (but only because foul play in these circumstances can never be proven)

Differences
1a. Exhibit B - Country A is playing for itself. It is not purposely trying to deny Country B. If the last match came down to A v B, then A would let B win to take the second spot.
1b. Exhibit A - Country A first team in Exhibit A is playing for Country A second team. It is purposely denying Country B. If the last match is between A1 and B, A1 would strive to win.

Conclusions
1. Even if both stategies are legal, most people know (though they can't prove it) that there is something morally wrong in each of the stategies. (This is also true for global issues like trade imbalances forced upon the poor.)
2. One strategy can be more wrong than another. They cannot be lumped into one basket. This is the real world, it is in different shades of grey, not just black or white.

Korean issue
1. Their line-judging in Korea Open is much worse than what they did in Jakarta.
2. By finishing third, they did not deny MAS or ENG anything. MAS and ENG are not complaining. This is already better than the Exhibit B example (though I am not implying that KOR will not resort to the same thing given Exhibit B circumstances).
3. So, all they did was to deny spectators some good matches, especially v MAS.

newjazz

05-13-2008, 09:56 PM

I think no point to blame or defend what KOR (or may be other team) did...
the one to blame is BWF!

I still think this is stupid system for such a big tournament!

As what jurong_twister said, this badminton will go no where!

The Korean has proven one solid evidence that officials at BWF are not qualified. No wonder, Badminton as an extremely exciting sport is going nowhere.

Exhibit A
Table
Country A 1st team (P1, W1 - beat Country B 5-0)
Country B team (P2, W1 - beat Country A2 4-1, L1 - lost to Country A1 0-5)
Country A 2nd team (P1, L1 - lost to Country B 1-4)
Last match of the group involves both teams of Country A. Country A wants to take both the top spots. Easy, just conspire to let the 2nd team beat the 1st team 4-1.

Exhibit B
Table
Country A team (P1, W1 - beat Country B 5-0)
Country B team (P2, W1 - beat Country C 4-1, L1 - lost to Country A 0-5)
Country C team (P1, L1 - lost to Country B 1-4)
Last match of the group involves Country A and Country C. For stategic reasons, Country A wants to finish second due to circumstances in other groups. So, it conspires to lose to Country C 5-0.

Similarities
1. Sneaky. Both deny Country B their rightful second place finish.
2. Both are fixing matches, making it uninteresting for spectators.
3. Both are perfectly legal (but only because foul play in these circumstances can never be proven)

Differences
1a. Exhibit B - Country A is playing for itself. It is not purposely trying to deny Country B. If the last match came down to A v B, then A would let B win to take the second spot.
1b. Exhibit A - Country A first team in Exhibit A is playing for Country A second team. It is purposely denying Country B. If the last match is between A1 and B, A1 would strive to win.

Conclusions
1. Even if both stategies are legal, most people know (though they can't prove it) that there is something morally wrong in each of the stategies. (This is also true for global issues like trade imbalances forced upon the poor.)
2. One strategy can be more wrong than another. They cannot be lumped into one basket. This is the real world, it is in different shades of grey, not just black or white.

Korean issue
1. Their line-judging in Korea Open is much worse than what they did in Jakarta.
2. By finishing third, they did not deny MAS or ENG anything. MAS and ENG are not complaining. This is already better than the Exhibit B example (though I am not implying that KOR will not resort to the same thing given Exhibit B circumstances).
3. So, all they did was to deny spectators some good matches, especially v MAS.

Dato Asbullah

05-14-2008, 04:02 AM

Lets see how far can KOR go.

felix929

05-14-2008, 04:07 AM

If korea wins this i can imagine ppl arguin about this..

Dato Asbullah

05-14-2008, 04:37 AM

If korea wins this i can imagine ppl arguin about this..

Definately.:D:D:D

reiko80

05-14-2008, 06:09 AM

Definately.:D:D:D
denmark lead tru p gade:D:D:D:D

afham07

05-14-2008, 06:29 AM

Against china, I still think that we have a change to make it. If LCW could deliver a point for, then our chance to win will be 55:45 .. :) ..

tze yang

05-14-2008, 06:35 AM

Who's Your Daddy???

Gade! Gade! Gade!

reiko80

05-14-2008, 07:49 AM

hahahaaaa....im the first guy who laugh.....korean are behind 2-0 against denmark.........now they regret what they done wrong....hahahaha:D:D:D:D

george@chongwei

05-14-2008, 07:51 AM

korea can start packing their bags now:)

reiko80

05-14-2008, 07:52 AM

hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa...................laugh everybody.........cheeeerrrsssssssssss...we celebrate the korean defeat against denmark.............go denmark goooooooooo

reiko80

05-14-2008, 07:52 AM

korea can start packing their bags now:)
yup george ...im the one who happy...................makan tuannnnnnn:crying::crying::crying::crying::crying:

ronnie14

05-14-2008, 07:53 AM

yeah, karma ppl :)

Erwin Kyoto

05-14-2008, 07:54 AM

thanks Reiko for this thread...I love it....

reiko80

05-14-2008, 07:56 AM

thanks Reiko for this thread...I love it....
erwin.....i just wait to folllow up my last thead korean done their tricks.....nowwwww...........makan tuan........i luv it:D:D:D

drifit

05-14-2008, 07:56 AM

:):):)
:d:d:d
:d:d:d

reiko80

05-14-2008, 07:57 AM

:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d
for denmarkkkkkkkk:D:D:D

reiko80

05-14-2008, 07:59 AM

but we need another single win.....look like lee yung ill is not ill...............

drifit

05-14-2008, 08:00 AM

what can i say more??
set themselves to get out earlier??
:D:D:D

reiko80

05-14-2008, 08:01 AM

look like malaysian uber team is packed out...

coolhandluke

05-14-2008, 08:01 AM

what can i say more??
set themselves to get out earlier??
:D:D:DC'mon, the Koreans are very strategic... they don't want to peak too early before the Olympics, you know. ;)

reiko80

05-14-2008, 08:02 AM

another upset...............china uber team..........huhuhuhhhhhhhhhh

drifit

05-14-2008, 08:08 AM

another upset...............china uber team..........huhuhuhhhhhhhhhh

difficult
doubles are too strong for any pair..........:rolleyes:

eaglehelang

05-14-2008, 08:15 AM

Dont too happy yet, Korea TC team may take MS2,MD2, MS3

ctjcad

05-14-2008, 08:15 AM

...wow, what a battle in the first couple of matches, but it's still not over yet, guys;)...this tie could go the distance...:cool:
But a couple of surprise ties already..:cool:

reiko80

05-14-2008, 08:17 AM

Dont too happy yet, Korea TC team may take MS2,MD2, MS3
eagle.....just a beginning of celebrate:D:D:D:D:D....cheers for denmark

coolhandluke

05-14-2008, 08:21 AM

Despite the surprises, Korea TC team and China UC team can make it to the next stage easily.

eaglehelang

05-14-2008, 08:22 AM

...wow, what a battle in the first couple of matches, but it's still not over yet, guys;)...this tie could go the distance...:cool:
But a couple of surprise ties already..:cool:

You came late, exciting matches : Dutch ladies won 2 WS, Denmark MS1 & MD1 won against Korea. Only Indonesia vs England was the most predictable, quickest to finish

Erwin Kyoto

05-14-2008, 08:23 AM

eagle.....just a beginning of celebrate:D:D:D:D:D....cheers for denmark

dont worry Bro...go ahead...DEN will make KOR packing by MD2....

ctjcad

05-14-2008, 08:27 AM

Despite the surprises, Korea TC team and China UC team can make it to the next stage easily.
..you meant KOR's UC team??..;)
You came late, exciting matches : Dutch ladies won 2 WS, Denmark MS1 & MD1 won against Korea. Only Indonesia vs England was the most predictable, quickest to finish
..yeah, about to go to work soon. Was knocked out last night, can't hang with all you guys..:( :p
I'm surprised, too, with the UC's match between NED and CHN. I was expecting a 3-0 win for CHN.
Anyways, will have to do some catch up reading today-tonight. I'm not even done reading the Day 3 thread..:p
dont worry Bro...go ahead...DEN will make KOR packing by MD2....
So, just curious, which team is the crowd cheering/supporting for??..:p