I should be most wary of LCW-LD says

[xymaerts]

Lin Dan plays down chances of winning Olympic gold medal in Beijing

DESPITE being touted as the player to beat in Beijing, China's world number one Lin Dan does not rate himself as a definite gold medal winner at the Olympics in August.
The player recovered from a straight-game defeat by Malaysia's Lee Chong Wei in the Thomas Cup semi-finals on Friday by delivering China's opening point in the final against South Korea last night.
Lin Dan recovered from a lethargic start to defeat Korean first singles player Park Sung-hwan 10-21, 21-18, 21-8.
http://www.thestar.com.my/archives/2008/5/19/sports/s_62lindan.jpg Flying start: Lin Dan celebrating after beating South Korea's Park Sung-hwan in the first single of the Thomas Cup final at the Istora Senayan Sunday.
“I had a bad start because the pressure was on me to deliver the first point and it made me nervous. Park also made a wonderful start in the first game and had me stretching to all four corners of the court to retrieve the shuttle,” said Lin Dan.
“I was able to maintain my composure in the second game, and was able to play my usual game. I am happy and proud to deliver China's first point in the final.”
The player blamed the media for painting him in a wrong picture ahead of the Olympics. Lin Dan claimed that he never felt that the gold medal in Beijing is his for the taking.
“From the Thomas Cup, everyone can see that besides me, there are several players who are capable of winning in Beijing. I would rate Chong Wei (Malaysia), Peter Gade (Denmark), Taufik Hidayat, Sony Dwi Kuncoro (both Indonesia) and the Koreans, Park and Lee (Hyun-il), as strong contenders,” he said.
“But after competing in Jakarta, I would say that the player I should be most wary of in August is Chong Wei.”
Lin Dan added that he always needed to stay one step ahead of his opponents as they always lift their game when playing against him.
“I have been the world number one for a long period of time and this makes me a target for every player wanting to prove himself,” he said.
“Their mentality is always to give the extra when they are up against the world number one and I am always needed to be at my best.”
The two-time world champion admitted that doing well at their home Olympics is the number one priority for the Chinese players this year.
Besides the world number one, the other two Chinese players who have qualified for Beijing are the world number three Bao Chunlai and number four Chen Jin.
“The Thomas Cup campaign is a platform to prepare for the Olympics challenge. If we win here, it shows that our preparations are on the right track. We were also able to check on the progress made by our top challengers in Jakarta,” said Lin Dan.
Lin Dan, who has won practically every major badminton title in the world, is still chasing an Olympic medal after being bundled out of the 2004 Athens Games in the first round by Singapore's Ronald Susilo.

[badcliq]

Just hope LCW won't be too confident after hearing that....remain humble...then surely LCW can win the gold medal in the Olympics!

[coolhandluke]

In other news, Lin Dan said the sun rises in the east. :p

[ctjcad]

...
“But after competing in Jakarta, I would say that the player I should be most wary of in August is Chong Wei.”
...
...at the present moment, LCW is definitely the top contender/challenger to LinDan for the Olympic Games' MS Gold. And if LCW can avoid meeting LD until the Final, and if history speaks for itself, the trend of the OG's MS Gold title coming from a non-winning Thomas Cup team may very well continue.:cool:

[Felicia_txh]

In this 21points system,nothing is impossible...:)

[victory]

Looking at the match between LCW and LD, indeed LD should be most wary of LCW . At that match LCW is fast, fit and so good in tactics. Simply put LCW knows how to defeat LD. And he defeated LD very badly in TC. LD is still good and fast but LCW's tactical play has neutraliszed LD's strenghts. It's just so amazing and entertaining watching these 2 men played to their best.

[X Ball]

LCW has grown smarter. He has always got the skillset, speed and stamina. But applying them during the tournaments sometimes come unstuck -- even coach Misbun said this many times.

I always said in the past he needs to look at the videos many times over and learn from them his mistakes against LD. LCW finally did that, he spent hours going over the videos before the TC. And look how it turned out.

I am absolutely sure the successful technigues he applied against LD this time round will win him the the gold medal in th Olympics coz he now has it all - speed, stamina, skills and technigues.

What a good time to beat LD as the TC spurs everyone to do their best. In beating LD here means it was not a fluke. LD knows it and it is good for him to acknowledge LCW as his biggest challenger in the Olympics. Even LiYongBo gave LCW the 'thumbs up' sign after game.

Conclusion : RM 1M is not that far away, if LCW works hard.

[cooler]

Hmmm, MAL fans respect what LYB has to say. I better go out and check if the moon is blue....

[Dreamzz]

not quite blue yet, but it's certainly turning that way ....

[X Ball]

Sometimes it is hard to accept the truth when the truth is exposed. It is especially hard to accept when the truth is so sudden.

[BlaZe]

Strangely LD doesn't mention Bao as a contender altough based on results he should be a bigger threat than PSH or Sony for example :rolleyes:

[Dreamzz]

that probably has something to do with the inner workings of the CHN team. LYB will probably have a say as to who wins the encounter should LD meet either BCL or CJ.

[AlanY]

In this 21points system,nothing is impossible...:)
I tell you what's impossible, the 5 Olympics Champions as

MS LASMARI Nabil ALG (WR 86)
MD DEDNAM Roelof Jakobus/DEDNAM Christoffel Cornelius RSA (WR 55)
WS DANIEL Grace NGR (WR 92)
WD EDWARDS Michelle Claire /BOTTS Chantal RSA (WR 79)
XD CUPIDON Georgie/AH-WAN Juliette SEY (WR 75)

[Shiryu]

I think most of us are reading too much into this interview. He's only stating the obvious while being modest about it. It's what he's hiding behind the words is more important. I feel that he's trying to tell his home media not too picture his as a sure win, thus putting too much pressure on him, which we have seen so many times already, is his greatest Achilles heel by far.
And being humble and polite is always a good PR move, and we all knows he needs some of that after the "punching coach" incident.

[jasonmarc]

Strangely LD doesn't mention Bao as a contender altough based on results he should be a bigger threat than PSH or Sony for example :rolleyes:

need not further explaination.......LYB will decides who to wins.....LD will always be LYB choice...to win...........so BCL and CJ will be just another player there to ensure.......(LD)CHN wins the gold.......just like the way LD and BCL help CJ to book his Olympic Ticket....;)

[xymaerts]

During their encounter recently, one of sure will perform under par. Like in Swiss Open, LCW keep doing mistake after mistake.. In this Thomas cup, is LD who did all the mistake.LYB also claim that it is not the day for LD..
But beside mistake, LD shows that he is slower..Good tactic play by LCW..

I am happy that LD make the statement.At least,he affirm LCW status very directly now..

[george@chongwei]

chong wei is gonna be all out when he`s at the OG08:)

[AlanY]

chong wei is gonna be all out when he`s at the OG08:)
that can only be nothing but good for badminton and the olympics

[Gitlis]

Well, I think MAS fans should not be overconfident at this moment. LCW is obviously the no.2 contender for OG08 Gold. That is it.

[george@chongwei]

i think this is juz lin dan`s strategy...
lcw wont be easily get trapped by his words though..:)

[cooler]

the occasional wins by lcw over LD sure brings out the closet posters.
truth exposed??? what a LOL. I think it's just more overconfidence rhetoric.
The undeniable truth and fact is, LD has way more titles than LCW. You can take that to the bank.

my free honest advice to LCW, if ur thinking about beating LD in beijing, dont forget to think about beating CJ, BCL, LHI, PSH first. Take lotta vitamin A if you plan to watch all their videos too LOL

Lastly, good luck to all players.
I'm not anti LCW, just find some posts are so funny.

[Han]

the occasional wins by lcw over LD sure brings out the closet posters.
truth exposed??? what a LOL. I think it's just more overconfidence rhetoric.
The undeniable truth and fact is, LD has way more titles than LCW. You can take that to the bank.

my free honest advice to LCW, if ur thinking about beating LD in beijing, dont forget to think about beating CJ, BCL, LHI, PSH first. Take lotta vitamin A if you plan to watch all their videos too LOL

Lastly, good luck to all players.
I'm not anti LCW, just find some posts are so funny.

in a way, the lost of Lin Dan in Thomas Cup do a lot of good to these 2 players. For Lin Dan, this serves as a pre-warning if he doesn't improve his jitter in the biggest event of his life and he now also knows the effective method Chong Wei used to play against him. Further more, Lin Dan tilts some of the pressure to Chong Wei and declares Chong Wei will be the one to beat. For Chong Wei, the win should boast his confident as he realize once he play to his potential then the chances are there. However, I hope Chong Wei will continue to work hard and do not over-look other title contenders as there are more than Lin Dan to overcome to win the title.

[bananakid]

the occasional wins by lcw over LD sure brings out the closet posters.
truth exposed??? what a LOL. I think it's just more overconfidence rhetoric.
The undeniable truth and fact is, LD has way more titles than LCW. You can take that to the bank.

my free honest advice to LCW, if ur thinking about beating LD in beijing, dont forget to think about beating CJ, BCL, LHI, PSH first. Take lotta vitamin A if you plan to watch all their videos too LOL

Lastly, good luck to all players.
I'm not anti LCW, just find some posts are so funny.

Cooler,

Are you implying that some BC members just came out of the closet?... and posted. LOL...:p:D:D:D wonder what kind of video is being studied now...:p

Seriously, LCW is the last person Lin Dan should worry about now... consider the fact that they won't meet until the finals(assuming they both make it that far).

[jamesd20]

Like other posters have said, this isn't really news.

LCW is his closest rival. He has no need to worry about his teamates, taufik & PG are spent forces, and the others are nowhere near him. I am not saying he cannot lse to them, anything is possible, but LCW has consistenyl been up there, and has shown that he has the weapons and tools to beat him.

On the other hand, LCW is still a long way from LD level IMO. Sure he can run him close, but unlike LD LCW has a lot more to worry about. I would say LCW has at least 5-6 players who he is at best 60-40 in his favour, and with these odds, it is a still a worry. I say LD is at least 75-25 against anyone so even if he has a bad day, he can still cope. LCW cannot afford a bad day.

Like Cooler says their job is to win tournaments. LCW hasn't won a lot, although he is consistent in winning 1 or 2 every year for the past 5 years, he really has not made too much progress in the main aim. There are no prizes for consistency or the occasional no.1 ranking.....just ask Roslin.

[coolhandluke]

It is funny to see that some people can't give credit to LCW when he has beaten every top player in the world. I wonder why people can't see what LD can easily see. Also, this once again explains why LD is one of the smartest players to ever pick up a badminton racket.

[ctjcad]

chong wei is gonna be all out when he`s at the OG08:)
..imply it's gonna be george@chongwei going all out, too, at the OG 08?!?!..:confused:;)

[xymaerts]

LD can NOW pay his tribute to LCW, and why you cannot? I believe that LD does aware that especially these few YEARs LCW had come close/on par with him.. Past is not important,the most important is now.. That is why LD make such a statement..I think you will only obey if LD make another statement that LCW is now on par with me, and both of us have an equal chance to win Olympic Gold.. But i can tell u, u will not get this statement. As from the origin post,LD already means this...


Like other posters have said, this isn't really news.

Like Cooler says their job is to win tournaments. LCW hasn't won a lot, although he is consistent in winning 1 or 2 every year for the past 5 years, he really has not made too much progress in the main aim. There are no prizes for consistency or the occasional no.1 ranking.....just ask Roslin.

[X Ball]

It is funny to see that some people can't give credit to LCW when he has beaten every top player in the world. I wonder why people can't see what LD can easily see. Also, this once again explains why LD is one of the smartest players to ever pick up a badminton racket.



Because they are blind or refuse to see ? I cannot think of any other reason.:D

[jimbo]

After witnessed LCW destroyed LD in TC, I'm convinced that LCW (with Misbun) will be a very strong contender for the OG08 GOLD. It's time for us to give FULL credit to LCW... he played very well... masterfully killed off LD... :rolleyes:

Our first ever OG GOLD isnt too far fetch, i hope :eek:

Msia Boleh...!!!

[wood_22_chuck]

LCW won over Lin Dan in the 2008 Thomas Cup, and full credit to him.

MAS fans, as expected, extrapolate, and assume LCW is dominant or will be dominant over future tournaments.

For Lin Dan, there's no need for extrapolation, when you look at the strings of 1st place champion in the majority of past tournaments.

Talk is cheap. If you had to bet or put money on either LCW or Lin Dan, you can let yourself be taken ... or not.

-dave

[ants]

China will have to work out their strategy on who will win the Gold. They work as a team remember? Lose some to win some. For those who die in the battlefield... make sure their sacrifices is worth it.

[X Ball]

It is not wrong to extrapolate that LCW will be dominant in future tournaments. However, it will be wrong to say he will not be dominant. :)

[jimbo]

It is not wrong to extrapolate that LCW will be dominant in future tournaments. However, it will be wrong to say he will not be dominant. :)

Absolutely agree. Even now, he and LD have been dominating the tourneys just like Federar and Nadal (comparatively) :eek::p

[Dato A]

i think this is juz lin dan`s strategy...
lcw wont be easily get trapped by his words though..:)

Yes. Maybe it's taught by LYB:D:D

[volcom]

LCW won over Lin Dan in the 2008 Thomas Cup, and full credit to him.

MAS fans, as expected, extrapolate, and assume LCW is dominant or will be dominant over future tournaments.

For Lin Dan, there's no need for extrapolation, when you look at the strings of 1st place champion in the majority of past tournaments.

Talk is cheap. If you had to bet or put money on either LCW or Lin Dan, you can let yourself be taken ... or not.

-dave

Undeniable truth spoken

[pjswift]

It was not so much that LCW beat LD; it's more about how he crushed LD.LD never had a chance. LCW used his fantastic speed weapon brilliantly in superb combination with his other weapons.LD apparently trained hard expecting LCW to play his usual style and when it did not happen, his mind went blank, he mentally freezed and he could not play badminton as he knew how.LD was like a student who used to ace his exams by doing the ten-year series ten times except this time he did the wrong ten-year series.
But that's the easiest way to defeat a CHN MS. By derailing them right from the start and destroying their confidence.Then they play like rookies (or amateurs, in fastdrop's naughty assessment). However, if they manage to get back on track, then it's a battle to take them out, depending on when they get back on track.
But LYB must be delighted LCW had to show his cards before OG08 because now LD can prepare to counter another LCW style.Can you imagine if this had been OG08?
However, LCW has the speed advantage. Because he has such a array of weapons, he can mix many combinations to bewilder his opponents.With each subsequent shot, he increases his cumulative speed advantage. The speed gap would allow him to go for placement winners,thus minimising his unforced errors.Only LCW can do that because of his No 1 speed, range of weapons and minimum energy usage supported by his top fitness and stamina.(When LCW lost focus and did not use his speed weapon well in some past tournaments,he had a hard time winning his matches.)

To win comfortably,LCW needs to remember that his game must be fuelled, thoughtfully and cleverly but not randomly, by his speed.

[jamesd20]

It is funny to see that some people can't give credit to LCW when he has beaten every top player in the world


LD can NOW pay his tribute to LCW, and why you cannot?

If you read my posts, you will see that I Stated LCW was LD rival, and since LD is the Undeniable No.1 then I would say that is a pretty big compliment. BCL has beaten every top player in the worls too, but I would not bet him to win OG. I stated he was 60-40 to beat any other player than LD.

LCW certainly does have the weapons to Beat LD, he is faster, has better skill and is similar in power. LCW just lacks confidence, and this is what has stopped him Winning tournaments. Despite his Victory over LD in TC, he has won nothing, and TC victory is shielded of indivudual pressure because of the team format (like BCL doesn't lose in TC either).

On Results basis though nothing has changed LCW still hasn't won anything. And like pjswift says LCW has shown his cards to LD now. They can only be judged by OG result IMO.

[X Ball]

It was not so much that LCW beat LD; it's more about how he crushed LD.LD never had a chance. LCW used his fantastic speed weapon brilliantly in superb combination with his other weapons.LD apparently trained hard expecting LCW to play his usual style and when it did not happen, his mind went blank, he mentally freezed and he could not play badminton as he knew how.LD was like a student who used to ace his exams by doing the ten-year series ten times except this time he did the wrong ten-year series.
But that's the easiest way to defeat a CHN MS. By derailing them right from the start and destroying their confidence.Then they play like rookies (or amateurs, in fastdrop's naughty assessment). However, if they manage to get back on track, then it's a battle to take them out, depending on when they get back on track.
But LYB must be delighted LCW had to show his cards before OG08 because now LD can prepare to counter another LCW style.Can you imagine if this had been OG08?
However, LCW has the speed advantage. Because he has such a array of weapons, he can mix many combinations to bewilder his opponents.With each subsequent shot, he increases his cumulative speed advantage. The speed gap would allow him to go for placement winners,thus minimising his unforced errors.Only LCW can do that because of his No 1 speed, range of weapons and minimum energy usage supported by his top fitness and stamina.(When LCW lost focus and did not use his speed weapon well in some past tournaments,he had a hard time winning his matches.)

To win comfortably,LCW needs to remember that his game must be fuelled, thoughtfully and cleverly but not randomly, by his speed.

Reading the above comments, I cannot but agree. LCW's speed is not questionable. He is on 'AIR' (Nike could do very well with him advertising for them).:D He now combines speed with skills so well. LD was left in awe when LCW took him apart in the TC.

If he lacked confidence before, he has definitely conquered this - you should look at him (a peacock spreading her wings would look half as confident).:D When the Olympics come round, the pressure would be on LD and the rest. They know LCW would be a force and they would be playing to his tune(always hard when you are on the back foot).:D

Now don't rush to counter my comments in a hurry. I would not be reading it any time soon.;):D

Note: PjSwift, for a woman, you certainly write very strongly and your reasons are so clear. If only some of the guys can think as well as you.:)

[eaglehelang]

LCW won over Lin Dan in the 2008 Thomas Cup, and full credit to him.

MAS fans, as expected, extrapolate, and assume LCW is dominant or will be dominant over future tournaments.

For Lin Dan, there's no need for extrapolation, when you look at the strings of 1st place champion in the majority of past tournaments.

Talk is cheap. If you had to bet or put money on either LCW or Lin Dan, you can let yourself be taken ... or not.

-dave

Nope, that's not the situation in real life, LOL, kah kah kah, sori, sori, no offence :D. In case some perceive wrongly, in real life, majority Msia fans dont assume LCW will be dominant, they dont look so highly at own players, seriously - that should be very obviously reflected with all the posts that come up every time a Msia player loses. If LCW wins - fine, if he lose, woe unto him.

Msia fans & media & sporting authorities are moaning the fact that Msia lost 2-3 to China, the focus is on KKK/TBH who lost the all important MD1 & Hafiz who lost MS3. After so many news articles posted in BC, should be obvious what's the pervalent view in real life.

Some here are just giving LCW credit where it's due, it's seldom given , most probably that's what the thread starter's intention was.

"LCW will be dominant"... ha ha ha, majority would not think like that for sure. And they are not excited either abt the win over LD cos Msia lost in the end.

[eaglehelang]

Reading the above comments, I cannot but agree. LCW's speed is not questionable. He is on 'AIR' (Nike could do very well with him advertising for them).:D He now combines speed with skills so well. LD was left in awe when LCW took him apart in the TC.

If he lacked confidence before, he has definitely conquered this - you should look at him (a peacock spreading her wings would look half as confident).:D When the Olympics come round, the pressure would be on LD and the rest. They know LCW would be a force and they would be playing to his tune(always hard when you are on the back foot).:D

Note: PjSwift, for a woman, you certainly write very strongly and your reasons are so clear. If only some of the guys can think as well as you.:)

Hey, woman dont think clear wan kah? Must be strong & clear mah, if not how to get work done. :pOur Pjswift is 'experienced' lady lah.

Dont forget Misbun's part in this ;). Misbun said he studied LD's 'change of style' for some time. So now, it's LYB & gang who will be studying, more than usual. I wouldnt say LCW has 'conquered' his lack of confidence. This kind of thing slips back, LCW has to keep building up & improving himself.
In future, he will know the ingredients & tell himself "This is how it was in order to beat WR#1"

[volcom]

Reading the above comments, I cannot but agree. LCW's speed is not questionable. He is on 'AIR' (Nike could do very well with him advertising for them).:D He now combines speed with skills so well. LD was left in awe when LCW took him apart in the TC.

If he lacked confidence before, he has definitely conquered this - you should look at him (a peacock spreading her wings would look half as confident).:D When the Olympics come round, the pressure would be on LD and the rest. They know LCW would be a force and they would be playing to his tune(always hard when you are on the back foot).:D

Now don't rush to counter my comments in a hurry. I would not be reading it any time soon.;):D

Note: PjSwift, for a woman, you certainly write very strongly and your reasons are so clear. If only some of the guys can think as well as you.:)

You've been saying the same thing since last year.

Let me find all the old posts.

[jamesd20]

If he lacked confidence before, he has definitely conquered this - you should look at him (a peacock spreading her wings would look half as confident).:D When the Olympics come round, the pressure would be on LD and the rest. They know LCW would be a force and they would be playing to his tune(always hard when you are on the back foot).:D

Note: PjSwift, for a woman, you certainly write very strongly and your reasons are so clear. If only some of the guys can think as well as you.:)


Bear in mind that you are judging him on one match. We cannot say LCW has "conquered" his lack of confidence yet on this basis. No one denies LCW is very agile and has huge potential, what people query is whether he can convert his skills and talent with results, which is, as yet still in doubt.

Also I found the last comment sexist - Why is pjswift's writing good "for a woman". ( I didn't even know pj was a woman, it is surely not important(?)

[Dreamzz]

yup, i don't think we can say for certain that LCW has conquered his confidence issue, we'll know for certain in a few more months.
in the OG however, unlike in the WC, the pressure will be on LD more than on LCW, which can only be good for the MAS player.
i still think he doesn't cope well when he's under pressure, LD is much better at that, for now ....

[pjswift]

yup, i don't think we can say for certain that LCW has conquered his confidence issue, we'll know for certain in a few more months.
in the OG however, unlike in the WC, the pressure will be on LD more than on LCW, which can only be good for the MAS player.
i still think he doesn't cope well when he's under pressure, LD is much better at that, for now ....
Are you suggesting that LCW actually crushed LD while at the same time experiencing confidence and pressure coping problems?Aren't you making LCW look ultra formidable? LD's problem is he's the only player who can suddenly,mentally freeze and he's lost.

[AlanY]

LD's problem is he's the only player who can suddenly,mentally freeze and he's lost.
i can do that, another thing i have in common with the world no 1 and olympics champion elected!

[AlanY]

in the OG however, unlike in the WC, the pressure will be on LD more than on LCW, which can only be good for the MAS player.

you think the pressure wouldn't be hugh on LCW! just think that you have a chance to bring the first gold medal home for malaysia, with all that high schools and roads will be named after you. and may be a national holiday in your honour. i say this is the definition for pressure!
not to mention that it's hard for WMC not to say yes when the olympics champion ask for your hand!

[Gitlis]

Are you suggesting that LCW actually crushed LD while at the same time experiencing confidence and pressure coping problems?Aren't you making LCW look ultra formidable? LD's problem is he's the only player who can suddenly,mentally freeze and he's lost.
It is equally easy for a LCW fan to start fantasizing to getting disappointed.

[volcom]

It is equally easy for a LCW fan to start fantasizing to getting disappointed.

But some fanatical fans get disappointed for about a day and then says how the next tournament will be the defining moment whether their idol will be successful or not.... and when he fails the next tournament, they;ll just say wait till the next tournament, until one day they get on-form and win once every 3-4 encounters and the idol is proclaimed to be the next best thing since sliced bread.
Can't wait to see the same old response after another disappointment.

[jamesd20]

in the OG however, unlike in the WC, the pressure will be on LD more than on LCW, which can only be good for the MAS player.
i still think he doesn't cope well when he's under pressure, LD is much better at that, for now ....

I Agree the pressure will be greater on LD than in recent TC, but Disagree therer will be less on LCW. As I stated in the TC Final thread in TC which is a team event, players would cope badly with pressure (For example PG, LCW, BCL) can be shielded by the team environment as the pressure is not on the individual. In OG their is only Them, so they seem more prone to freezing.


Are you suggesting that LCW actually crushed LD while at the same time experiencing confidence and pressure coping problems?Aren't you making LCW look ultra formidable? LD's problem is he's the only player who can suddenly,mentally freeze and he's lost.

Talk about out of context interpretation. What I think dreamzz actually meant (And what I meant) was that the reason LCW won was because he found his confidence (I believe because of the team competition), and LD was under less pressure.

[robin7]

LCW has to be more careful as not to be too carried away by the win over LD in the semi-final. Be reminded that LCW beat LD in Sudirman Cup but suffered an early exit in the following WC.

Hopefully we are able to see both LD and LCW in the finals.

[eaglehelang]

But some fanatical fans get disappointed for about a day and then says how the next tournament will be the defining moment whether their idol will be successful or not.... and when he fails the next tournament, they;ll just say wait till the next tournament, until one day they get on-form and win once every 3-4 encounters and the idol is proclaimed to be the next best thing since sliced bread.
Can't wait to see the same old response after another disappointment.

So, you get a bit irrirated by those few fans? If this thread is counted, it's less than 10 ppl. After all the public statements posted in the threads & -ve posts made..........
And I know it's repetitive, aft so many years of repeated criticism, still got ppl comment on the few fans who think 'ultra' confident, aiyooo.
And I'm not one of them as you can read from earlier post.

LOL, there are very few such fans(Msians at least), most bash, win ('sure wouldnt win next time, remember what happened.....') or lose (anything from 'useless', 'mentally weak', etc). Injury also got critised in press as excuse (2007 Denmark Open, lost to Bao, 2007 HK Open).

And no offense meant :D.

[jimbo]

Note: PjSwift, for a woman, you certainly write very strongly and your reasons are so clear. If only some of the guys can think as well as you.:)

I have to agree with U that PjSwift has a very strong character and sharp with her analysis. She was there (at the hotel lobby) listening to Misbun's tactics on how to masterfully crash LD and I witnessed it (the match). Then she tried to explain to me how and what LCW did... and I realised that it was true... it was all under Misbun's plan. True genius, I must say... :)

Ayu LCW... Kau Bisa... :D

[jimbo]

What I think dreamzz actually meant (And what I meant) was that the reason LCW won was because he found his confidence (I believe because of the team competition), and LD was under less pressure.

That is simply NOT true. Both were under tremendous pressure and LD said (after beating ParkSH) that he lost in the first match because he was under pressure to win the crucial opening point for CHN. But I think both players did very well in TC...

[X Ball]

I have to agree with U that PjSwift has a very strong character and sharp with her analysis. She was there (at the hotel lobby) listening to Misbun's tactics on how to masterfully crash LD and I witnessed it (the match). Then she tried to explain to me how and what LCW did... and I realised that it was true... it was all under Misbun's plan. True genius, I must say... :)

Ayu LCW... Kau Bisa... :D

Thanks for this info. man.

[X Ball]

You've been saying the same thing since last year.

Let me find all the old posts.

Sure, were you listening ?:D Don't think so.

[X Ball]

Bear in mind that you are judging him on one match. We cannot say LCW has "conquered" his lack of confidence yet on this basis. No one denies LCW is very agile and has huge potential, what people query is whether he can convert his skills and talent with results, which is, as yet still in doubt.

Also I found the last comment sexist - Why is pjswift's writing good "for a woman". ( I didn't even know pj was a woman, it is surely not important(?)


Yes I know it is only one match. But it still was an emphatic win.

If you are not good enough, there is no way you can win against LD.
If you have not conquered your fear of your opponent, there is no way against LD.

I have seen so many doubtful questions about LCW even after each win he had. Sure, he has not won in the Olympics but he was not good then. Things do progress if one puts in the effort unless we take it for granted it won't.

I am sure PjSwift will not take it as a sexiest comment -- one cannot be so sensitive James.

[cooler]

too bad misbun's great tactically plan for lcw was for a lost cause, china still wins TC. Now LYB can work on gaps in LD gameplan for the OG, as per plan. I'm not trying to put down MAL fans but it's hard to deny what i am seeing.

[Loh]

Well the impossible could well happen again when LD was knocked out by Ronald Susilo in R1 during the last Olympics. So depending on the luck of the draw, LCW better watch out.

And unlikely though it may be, I will not be too shocked if a Korean wins the Olympic MS for the first time! They have won the MD before haven't they? So it would not be impossible for them to win yet another Olympic crown.

Remember too that Li Mao, who has been conspicuously absent during the TC battles in Jakarta (at least I did not see him personally) will want to take revenge on LYB and LD and he also has a hand in grooming LCW. So he is the man to watch as he could create wonders for the two top Korean MS, PSH and LYI.

So while all of you are concentrating on the front door, Li Mao and his men will come through the back door and upset everybody! :D:D:D

[BadFever]

too bad misbun's great tactically plan for lcw was for a lost cause, china still wins TC. Now LYB can work on gaps in LD gameplan for the OG, as per plan. I'm not trying to put down MAL fans but it's hard to deny what i am seeing.
Agree with you on this, Cooler. TC is a real bummer for MAS, especially when the hardest hurdle has been achieved(beating LD).
Best way to beat LD is to catch him "off guard". LCW has done that to LD on a few occassions. Hopefully during OG, Misbun will come out with some genius tactics for LCW to suprise LD a bit, that is if both can get thru to the final. Pressure will be there and won't get any lesser for LD in OG.

[X Ball]

Agree with you on this, Cooler. TC is a real bummer for MAS, especially when the hardest hurdle has been achieved(beating LD).
Best way to beat LD is to catch him "off guard". LCW has done that to LD on a few occassions. Hopefully during OG, Misbun will come out with some genius tactics for LCW to suprise LD a bit, that is if both can get thru to the final. Pressure will be there and won't get any lesser for LD in OG.

But Misbun had already come out with the genius touch. So you should say "Misbun could come out again.......".

China had to pull out all stops to win the TC. I don't begrudge them their win. KKK-TBH lost the crucial one (I did not expect WCH or HH to win theirs, although one always hope) when it counted. No use crying over spilled milk as the saying goes.

For me, the takeaway from the TC was the great win by LCW.

[BadFever]

But Misbun had already come out with the genius touch. So you should say "Misbun could come out again.......".

Thanks for the correction, X Ball. I wish Misbun could come out with a winning tactics for LCW, doesn't have to be so many times, just once, winning the OG gold will do. :)

[jamesd20]

That is simply NOT true. Both were under tremendous pressure and LD said (after beating ParkSH) that he lost in the first match because he was under pressure to win the crucial opening point for CHN. But I think both players did very well in TC...

Dreamzz (Whom I was speaking about) was comparing with OG, where LD will be under A lot more pressure, so he was under less pressure in TC.

[jamesd20]

I am sure PjSwift will not take it as a sexiest comment -- one cannot be so sensitive James.

One should also be more sensitive in their posts too

[X Ball]

One should also be more sensitive in their posts too

It is ok James - no problem, if you feel it was sexiest. It was to me a compliment to her -- I admire her comments most of the time.

[pjswift]

I Agree the pressure will be greater on LD than in recent TC, but Disagree therer will be less on LCW. As I stated in the TC Final thread in TC which is a team event, players would cope badly with pressure (For example PG, LCW, BCL) can be shielded by the team environment as the pressure is not on the individual. In OG their is only Them, so they seem more prone to freezing.



Talk about out of context interpretation. What I think dreamzz actually meant (And what I meant) was that the reason LCW won was because he found his confidence (I believe because of the team competition), and LD was under less pressure.
So what is the context again?
Didn't LCW beat LD rather convincingly in JO07? That is a SS, not team tournament?

[volcom]

Even Chen Jin smashed LCW convincingly in AE08, is that not big enough?
Why no one bring him up? ;)

[cooler]

So what is the context again?
Didn't LCW beat LD rather convincingly in JO07? That is a SS, not team tournament?as a second ranked MS player, it is not uncommon to have lcw beating LD once in a while. A quick guess is that lcw beat LD about once a year.

[jimbo]

as a second ranked MS player, it is not uncommon to have lcw beating LD once in a while. A quick guess is that lcw beat LD about once a year.

How many players beat LD twice in a yr? ;)

[SibugiChai]

LD learn from past mistake and will learn to deal with pressure this time around.

Pressure Pressure Pressure is the things in Olypimic!

[jamesd20]

So what is the context again?
Didn't LCW beat LD rather convincingly in JO07? That is a SS, not team tournament?

My point in that post was that you (Knowingly I think;) )misinterpreted Dreamzz post to imply seeing as LD will be under less pressure in TC and therfore more in OG to see this as a reason why LCW should trounce LD in OG. This is unlikely (but of course not impossible), as there are a number of different factors in the OG which will affect the players differently. It is like saying LD bt LCW, CJ beat LD, therfore CJ will beat LCW - It is just not that straightforward.

As people have pointed out LCW has been consistently beating top players over the past 4 years, but has still not made any breakthrough to string together this beating players into a big victory. I have seen no evidence yet to suggest this long term pattern is about to change.

LCW has more to think about than LD anyhow. He has two other CHN players who can beat him and a number of others who can push him, and if he has an off day he may lose. As I said before however, no one is disuputing the fact that he is No.2 in the world and therfore LD's main opposition, but he is still a distance off being No.1 and No.3 3-7 are more even in Skill, therefore more unpredictable in results.

[jimbo]

Most of us seemed to have forgotten that OG08 is held in Beijing (backyard of LD and LYB)!!! Have we all forgotten how LCW was "robbed" in China Open 07? Humans are forgetful, i must say :rolleyes:

LCW has no chance to beat LD (in CHN), only if they both meet in Final (strongly doubt so) :cool:

As a Msia Boleh fan, I hope "someone" would kill off LD and lost to LCW in Final... haha... :p

[george@chongwei]

Most of us seemed to have forgotten that OG08 is held in Beijing (backyard of LD and LYB)!!! Have we all forgotten how LCW was "robbed" in China Open 07? Humans are forgetful, i must say :rolleyes:

LCW has no chance to beat LD (in CHN), only if they both meet in Final (strongly doubt so) :cool:

As a Msia Boleh fan, I hope "someone" would kill off LD and lost to LCW in Final... haha... :p
yeah, lcw gets robbed very terribly in the CHINA MASTER 2007:(:(

[X Ball]

Most of us seemed to have forgotten that OG08 is held in Beijing (backyard of LD and LYB)!!! Have we all forgotten how LCW was "robbed" in China Open 07? Humans are forgetful, i must say :rolleyes:

LCW has no chance to beat LD (in CHN), only if they both meet in Final (strongly doubt so) :cool:

As a Msia Boleh fan, I hope "someone" would kill off LD and lost to LCW in Final... haha... :p



Jimbo, the linesmen will not be chinese. A difference.

[jimbo]

Jimbo, the linesmen will not be chinese. A difference.

Noted. Thz for pointing out. I hope the linesmen quality will be as good as TC/UC in JKT. :)

[eaglehelang]

Even Chen Jin smashed LCW convincingly in AE08, is that not big enough?
Why no one bring him up? ;)

They did - here & in the press, LCW was critised for it, there were doubts abt his performance in OG 2008. He made up for it by reaching finals of Swiss Open one week after. Doubts rise again when LCW lost in ABC in April.
Then again, CJ lost to Chong Wei Feng in India Open in early April.

Search the threads, there may not be a specific title, but it was extensively discussed & argued. ANd continued to Swiss Open thread too

[volcom]

They did - here & in the press, LCW was critised for it, there were doubts abt his performance in OG 2008. He made up for it by reaching finals of Swiss Open one week after. Doubts rise again when LCW lost in ABC in April.
Then again, CJ lost to Chong Wei Feng in India Open in early April.

Search the threads, there may not be a specific title, but it was extensively discussed & argued. ANd continued to Swiss Open thread too
Yeah my point is why, after one performance from LCW he will either be praised like an messiah or scolded like he will never get back to form again?
Some fans are too overthetop in my view.

[pralinescream]

it's very amusing to read reaction of lee chongwei's fanboyz after that 'famous' thomas cup win over lin dan.
e.g. better skills, faster, infinite variety of strokes...makes anybody else believe lee chong wei is world number 1, best player in the world right now.

unfortunately, when come back to reality lee chongwei has
a) zero major titles in his trophy cabinet despite being in the circuit abt as long as lin dan.
b) reached less finals or semi-finals compared to say, bao chunlai.
c) "lesser" players like anup from india can beat sum of the top players occasionally.

i've expected lin dan to issue the press statement declaring lee chongwei as greatest hope for gold.
this is another step of overall Beijing Clean Sweep strategy from master tactian li yongbo.
by holding back lin dan now, none of the other coaches can see,expect and counter-plan the powerful new weapons that he will most definitely unleash to guarantee the Gold and ensure CHN's pride.

evryboy knows, whenever lee chongwei (or any other MAS player for dat matter) is being given expectations to win, fail miserably he must and his fanboyz will be none the wiser. he's still the SPEEDIEST, SKILLEST, best player in the world, only thg is lee chongwei lacks the confidence. ...

[robin7]

Yeah my point is why, after one performance from LCW he will either be praised like an messiah or scolded like he will never get back to form again?
Some fans are too overthetop in my view.
Yeah, u r absolutely right.

That is just "a corner of the iceberg". Be honest to yourself, it happens to every country including China. I'm sure that Chinese fans will do the same thing if Lin Dan wins an important match if u read one of the famous Chinese badminton forum.

When our countrymen win an important match, we cheer for them. When they fail, some fans start to criticise/bash...

[X Ball]

unfortunately, when come back to reality lee chongwei has
a) zero major titles in his trophy cabinet despite being in the circuit abt as long as lin dan.
b) reached less finals or semi-finals compared to say, bao chunlai.
c) "lesser" players like anup from india can beat sum of the top players occasionally.

...

Haven't you heard of 'late bloomers' ? He is one of them.

By the way, nobody has asked you to believe what we believe. If you don't, like a few here, no big deal to us who do.

[pralinescream]

Haven't you heard of 'late bloomers' ? He is one of them.

By the way, nobody has asked you to believe what we believe. If you don't, like a few here, no big deal to us who do.

:eek:exactly, i dun xpect to follow views that r incorrect/hilarious/irrational/silly; since this is open forum,all thoughts n comments are valued except if purposely cause hurt/hatred personally to other forum users.
it's up to the discerning n keen eye to separate gold from dust.

:cool: whatever's been said here will not chge the inevitable dat is super dan will win Gold and lee chongwei eliminated in early rnds.

[Dato A]

it's very amusing to read reaction of lee chongwei's fanboyz after that 'famous' thomas cup win over lin dan.
e.g. better skills, faster, infinite variety of strokes...makes anybody else believe lee chong wei is world number 1, best player in the world right now.

unfortunately, when come back to reality lee chongwei has
a) zero major titles in his trophy cabinet despite being in the circuit abt as long as lin dan.
b) reached less finals or semi-finals compared to say, bao chunlai.
c) "lesser" players like anup from india can beat sum of the top players occasionally.

i've expected lin dan to issue the press statement declaring lee chongwei as greatest hope for gold.
this is another step of overall Beijing Clean Sweep strategy from master tactian li yongbo.
by holding back lin dan now, none of the other coaches can see,expect and counter-plan the powerful new weapons that he will most definitely unleash to guarantee the Gold and ensure CHN's pride.

evryboy knows, whenever lee chongwei (or any other MAS player for dat matter) is being given expectations to win, fail miserably he must and his fanboyz will be none the wiser. he's still the SPEEDIEST, SKILLEST, best player in the world, only thg is lee chongwei lacks the confidence. ...

Similarity found on Lee's fanz and Koo/Tan's fanz, or even Fuzzy's.

What is the big deal to beat LD in straight sets? A huge successive?:confused:

We should give supports to our players.But not too over.

[Dato A]

:eek:exactly, i dun xpect to follow views that r incorrect/hilarious/irrational/silly; since this is open forum,all thoughts n comments are valued except if purposely cause hurt/hatred personally to other forum users.
it's up to the discerning n keen eye to separate gold from dust.

:cool: whatever's been said here will not chge the inevitable dat is super dan will win Gold and lee chongwei eliminated in early rnds.

Whoa...Are U a fortune teller?:D

[SibugiChai]

Similarity found on Lee's fanz and Koo/Tan's fanz, or even Fuzzy's.

What is the big deal to beat LD in straight sets? A huge successive?:confused:

We should give supports to our players.But not too over.

Malaysia players got WEAK mental strength!

Easily fullfilled!:eek:

[wood_22_chuck]

Let's put a positive spin on this.

MAS badminton has been in the doldrums or in the negative except for the bright sparks here and there. Hafiz winning All-England, KKK/TBH, LCW.

Being a former powerhouse on the badminton scene, the fans are hungry to celebrate, but there are more disappointments than positive results.

So when there's a one-off significant win by any MAS players, there's an explosion of celebration and a lot of "Watch out! MAS is rising!" slogans

Cheers to the fans for being supporters of MAS badminton.

-dave

[eaglehelang]

Similarity found on Lee's fanz and Koo/Tan's fanz, or even Fuzzy's.

What is the big deal to beat LD in straight sets? A huge successive?:confused:

We should give supports to our players.But not too over.

Hiyaaa, I already say this 2X.

Many forget, lose got those who critise 'over' (media, NSC, SPorts Minister, fans), much, much more than those who 'praise over'. LCW win this time, is drowned by the fact that KKK/TBH & Hafiz lost.

No big deal, just some of the other forum members, for some reason, cant stand it when a few (very few actually), you also know, praise their idol 'over'. They think the 'over' +ve fans represent a lot of Msia ppl, RLOL, really funny.

Sessssh, media only mention LCW's win 1 day, but until today still talk abt KKK/TBH's lost. Aiyooo, cant even let those few LCW's die hard fans have some happiness for a couple of days.

[limsy]

Yeah my point is why, after one performance from LCW he will either be praised like an messiah or scolded like he will never get back to form again?
Some fans are too overthetop in my view.

hmm...u should ask those whom done it...^^...some of them didnt love malaysian badminton like ina fan love ina badminton...so sad...when OG gold medalist lost to the 18 years old boy...they still cheer for taufik in next match...

[ye333]

In fact it is a big deal. Let's take a look at all of LCW's wins over LD.

2005 MAS, 2006 MAS, 2007 Sudirman, 2007 Japan, 2008 Thomas.

The first two are both 3 games. And if you watch them, it is quite clear that LD toyed LCW for a while and then relaxed a bit. Besides both are in Malaysia. 2007 Sudirman is the first time LCW beating LD outside Malaysia, however this match is arguably "meaningless" as Team China has already won. 2007 Japan is the first time LCW beat LD in a match that matters and outside Malaysia.

Starting from 2007 Sudirman, LCW's wins are all straight games. If you watch them, LCW dominated in all three matches, you can see the frustration on LD's face. One more observation is that 2007 Sudirman -> 2007 Japan -> 2008 Thomas, the importance of the match to LD/LYB is increasing.

For me, it's hard to believe that LD chose these particular matches to "give up". What's the purpose of doing that? LD lost to LCW tamely in Japan 07 and then beat LCW in HK 07 and Swiss 08. Don't the two wins cancel the effect of the one loss if LD's purpose is to fool LCW into under-estimating him?

So for me the only explanation is that nowadays, a top-form LCW can dominate an OK-form LD.


Similarity found on Lee's fanz and Koo/Tan's fanz, or even Fuzzy's.

What is the big deal to beat LD in straight sets? A huge successive?:confused:

We should give supports to our players.But not too over.

[cooler]

Hiyaaa, I already say this 2X.

Many forget, lose got those who critise 'over' (media, NSC, SPorts Minister, fans), much, much more than those who 'praise over'. LCW win this time, is drowned by the fact that KKK/TBH & Hafiz lost.

No big deal, just some of the other forum members, for some reason, cant stand it when a few (very few actually), you also know, praise their idol 'over'. They think the 'over' +ve fans represent a lot of Msia ppl, RLOL, really funny.

Sessssh, media only mention LCW's win 1 day, but until today still talk abt KKK/TBH's lost. Aiyooo, cant even let those few LCW's die hard fans have some happiness for a couple of days.hey, give cooler some credit, i did persuaded Pemuda to give MAL fans a break:D:)

[cooler]

In fact it is a big deal. Let's take a look at all of LCW's wins over LD.

2005 MAS, 2006 MAS, 2007 Sudirman, 2007 Japan, 2008 Thomas.

thanks for illustrating what i've said before, lcw beat LD about once a year.
Now that lcw had beaten LD in TC, what is the statistical chance that lcw would beat LD again in 2008 OG??

[limsy]

thanks for illustrating what i've said before, lcw beat LD about once a year.
Now that lcw had beaten LD in TC, what is the statistical chance that lcw would beat LD again in 2008 OG??

hmm...nope...once a year for tournament...team event cant include...so...he has potential in OG...hahax...^^...

[SibugiChai]

thanks for illustrating what i've said before, lcw beat LD about once a year.
Now that lcw had beaten LD in TC, what is the statistical chance that lcw would beat LD again in 2008 OG??

Olympic is the highest level in badminton now...

No number 1 ranker MS even won a Olympic Gold. That's the fact

Pressure, Pressure, Pressure

and usually in Olympic, the average player will step a few gear up thus cant be taken lightly.

[X Ball]

As we go into the Olympic year, LCW has begun to show a lot of urgency. He has been more focused, even studying extensively of videos of previous matches with LD. This has resulted in an overwhelming win over LD in the TC.

Now of course, all the people who have been always barracking for LD were taken aback by the win. There is an immediate rush to defend this loss as a fluke -- usual crap like 'how many times has LCW beaten LD?'; 'LCW beats LD once a year', and of course, the most bizarre posting is 'LD did not take it seriously or something to that effect'.

Of course, if the above does not sound familiar, there is always : the overzealous LCW fans are always over the top. Just because of one spectacular win, they seem to think LCW is going to be dominant.

Yes, yes all familiar comments - no credit given to LCW except to rubbish his fans. Beginning to sound so humdrum. Most of the biased comparisons of LCW are based on the past performances but never current. If LCW wasn't good, he would not have beaten LD (straightforward and simple).

[cooler]

Olympic is the highest level in badminton now...

No number 1 ranker MS even won a Olympic Gold. That's the fact

Pressure, Pressure, Pressure

and usually in Olympic, the average player will step a few gear up thus cant be taken lightly.
true true but cooler says this.

we have 2 sets of statistic here

TREND A win against LD record
2005 MAS
2006 MAS
2007 Sudirman
2007 Japan
2008 Thomas.

versus

TREND B non #1 rank winners in OG
1996 OG
2000 OG
2004 OG

Would u say any statisticans would place highly probability of trend A than trend B?????? kekeke

[X Ball]

Past performances does not dictate future performances -- only current performance does.

E.g. Hafiz's AE title in the past is worthless if his current form is not good. Taufik's past Olympics gold speaks zilch today for his next Olympic attempt.

However, LCW's performance in TC counts a lot as he has shown big improvements. BAO's tenacity counts plenty - he could be dangerous (he is the dangerman to LCW).

[SibugiChai]

true true but cooler says this.

we have 2 sets of statistic here

TREND A win against LD record
2005 MAS
2006 MAS
2007 Sudirman
2007 Japan
2008 Thomas.

versus

TREND B non #1 rank winners in OG
1996 OG
2000 OG
2004 OG

Would u say any statisticans would place highly probability of trend A than trend B?????? kekeke

Even 1992 ALAN BUDIKUSUMA isnt the No.1 Rank... pretty obvius no No.1 Suceeded!

:p

[eaglehelang]

hey, give cooler some credit, i did persuaded Pemuda to give MAL fans a break:D:)

Cooler, I was replying to Dato Asbullah ;). And I was NOT talking about you in that post, but someone who's "Super Dan's" fan, who beleive it's a conspiracy of some sort, he he.
And I also said, I'm not LCW's die hard fan or over excited over that win. Noooooo way can get over excited wan, weeee bit excitement also got ppl 'over concerned' :D. Imagine if Msia fans say "because LCw wasnt taking it seriously..." in his losses, all hell have broken loose

And LCW might not meet LD, OG 2004 is good example, not only for LD but many other players. WHo knows, giant killer Boonsak may rise & do one better in his 2nd OG, he got 4th place in 2004.

So, let LCW die hard fans be happy for a few days also cannot? LD fans are happy for so many months of the year, a few unhappiness(due to LD losing) also cannot stand meh?

[SibugiChai]

Past performances does not dictate future performances -- only current performance does.

E.g. Hafiz's AE title in the past is worthless if his current form is not good. Taufik's past Olympics gold speaks zilch today for his next Olympic attempt.

However, LCW's performance in TC counts a lot as he has shown big improvements. BAO's tenacity counts plenty - he could be dangerous (he is the dangerman to LCW).

From past Olympic records.. BAO should be the ONE!

Not ranked no.1

Not whom everyone expected to win...

Got the skills...

On form but no high expectation for him :cool:

hermmm good choice!

[Dato A]

From past Olympic records.. BAO should be the ONE!

Not ranked no.1

Not whom everyone expected to win...

Got the skills...

On form but no high expectation for him :cool:

hermmm good choice!

Provided that LCW is absent.:D:D

[ye333]

It's not a statistical problem at all. Watch the matches (I mean all LCW - LD matches). IMHO the trend is clear. LCW did better and better. The gap between the two has been closing in the past 3 years.

Furthermore, if you want to use statistics, you should count LD's wins as well. It's the ratio that matters, right?

I don't have the exact data. As far as I can remember, LD beat LCW in HK05 (watch that and see how dominant LD was back then!); LD beat LCW about 4 times in 06; LD beat LCW in China Masters and HK Open in 07; LD beat LCW in Swiss Open 08.

So you see, they are pretty evenly matched starting from 07.

thanks for illustrating what i've said before, lcw beat LD about once a year.
Now that lcw had beaten LD in TC, what is the statistical chance that lcw would beat LD again in 2008 OG??

[ye333]

I know TH and LD were No.1s in 00 and 04. How about 92 and 96? Who were No.1 seeds then?

[pjswift]

My point in that post was that you (Knowingly I think;) )misinterpreted Dreamzz post to imply seeing as LD will be under less pressure in TC and therfore more in OG to see this as a reason why LCW should trounce LD in OG. This is unlikely (but of course not impossible), as there are a number of different factors in the OG which will affect the players differently. It is like saying LD bt LCW, CJ beat LD, therfore CJ will beat LCW - It is just not that straightforward.

As people have pointed out LCW has been consistently beating top players over the past 4 years, but has still not made any breakthrough to string together this beating players into a big victory. I have seen no evidence yet to suggest this long term pattern is about to change.

LCW has more to think about than LD anyhow. He has two other CHN players who can beat him and a number of others who can push him, and if he has an off day he may lose. As I said before however, no one is disuputing the fact that he is No.2 in the world and therfore LD's main opposition, but he is still a distance off being No.1 and No.3 3-7 are more even in Skill, therefore more unpredictable in results.
I'm trying tounderstand all yourposts here so far, jamesd20(yes, not 22!) The gist of which is LCW still has not convinced you of his confidence.Plus various beliefs on pressure, rankings and vulnerability.My views on these issues are simpler:
1.Pressure
Every top ranked player is under pressure.(Whether it's more or less,is our logical guess.)All of them experience similar nerve problems (past press interviews indicate that).No one has any advantage in this area.
2.Rankings
Considering the abundance and kind of upsets in NSS esp. this year,rankings are more useful for draw purposes rather than winner predictions.In the SS and ABC so far, the top 2 have met in the final only once.I don't think they will meet in the OG08 finals but my bet is on one KOR MS finalist.
3.Vulnerability
Every top ranked player is vulnerable.Who would expect Sato to beat PG or PG to outlast PSH, the marathon man? No one is safe. It depends on the form on that day.Lower ranked players can fancy their chances because they know everything about the top players but their superior opponents may not know they have a new weapon or two which can catch them offguard and unnerve them into making expensive unforced errors.
4.Confidence
We are talking about confidence going into a match, not during a match.If you observe LD's body language at 'Love all, play', it's very transparent whether his opponent is giving him some breathing problems. LD's a very bad actor.
LCW looks the same regardless of who he faces.
LCW can only grow in confidence.
He takes a longer time reaching perfection because he has so many weapons to use.See how much easier for him when he had one weapon less (trademark cross court attack) in FO07 because of his injury. He had to use his speed to compensate, and with incredible results. In TC SF, he used his speed intelligently and his attack weapon sparingly(by choice, unlike in FO) to outfox LD.When LCW gets smarter and instinctive with his tactics, he's gonna be difficult to match.

[jamesd20]

Just for our clarity I shall also explain my views on your named factors too:

1.Pressure
Every top ranked player is under pressure.(Whether it's more or less,is our logical guess.)All of them experience similar nerve problems (past press interviews indicate that). What is important however is how the players deal with this pressure. Everyone can deal with presuure in varying amount until they crumble. IMO LD is not so good in this area. I think he uses his confidence to overcome the nerves. in OG2004 I don't think LD was under pressure in 1st Rd but he still crumbled. I would say LCW is actually better at dealing with pressure under the same confidence levels- only LCW normal confidence levels are lower.

2.Rankings
Rankings mean nothing, there are no prizes and no tournament victories won by ranking. When I have referred to ranking I have meant it in the context of te groups of players. I see LD as the best player on his own. Behind him I see BCL, LCW, CJ as the closest rivals, and they are similar in normal level. further behind there are a large number of players like TH,PG,SDK etc... who are of similar level also. Therefore to beat LD, LCW/BCL/CJ must perform above their normal level if LD also performs his normal level. If LD performs slightly below par LCW/BCL/CJ may beat him at their normal level. For PG/TH/SDK to beat LD they must perform at their top current ability and LD must have a bad day.

3.Vulnerability
I think I dealt with the vulnerability issue above, LD is not untouchable, no one is, it just depends how bad LD plays on the day against his opponent.

4.Confidence
I measure confidence on how the player plays - how quick do they move, do they play the correct shot or do they pull out and hit a clear or a drop when they could have killed it.

I have seen LCW play when he is confident and he really looks unbeatable he moves behind the shuttle, hits it early and the opponent cannot live with his speed so he cannot take control.

LD uses confidence in a different way. when he is confident he plays more defensively, moves his opponents to the extremities of the court and counter attacks. This has the added benefit that it tires the opponent out and takes the edge off their speed. The disadvantage of LCW is if he plays like this and the shuttles come back and he loses some points then the bubble can burst. LCW seems to have difficulty to play defensively because he seems to associate this with moving slowly and play slow strokes he does not mix it up so well.


The forum is littered with me saying such things, but I shall say it once more. LCW has much higher potential than LD. He is more agile, has better deception and can move faster. His problem is he does not use all these things at the right time and in the right order, and until he learns to he will contiue the way he has been. I have noted also before that if you look at his results over his career so far excepting the first few years his results have been similar for the past 4 years in terms of victories.

LD however plays to his strengths more, he extends the rallies to use his endurance and finishes points off in the midcourt when he gets the chance. very rarely does LD hit smashes from the rearcourt.

In short I agree with you-his tactics are wrong, and you can see when he plays the right tactics he can destroy players. But his confdence seems not to allow him to play this way consistently all the way throught big tournaments, may be the pressure sways he thinking?

[ye333]

Another great post! I totally agree with the observations about LCW and LD. In particular the observation that LD usually choose not to smash from the baseline (some people may say this shows LD has been hiding his real ability all the time these years... :D).

I would group LCW and BCL as a group with LCW slightly higher than BCL. But I would group CJ together with TH, SDK, PG, PSH, LHI, KJ, and BP. I don't think CJ is at the same level as BCL or LCW. Furthermore with his waist injury (what happened in TC SF seems to indicate that CJ may not be able to play his usual game in the future if he does not want to take risk), he will actually be weaker in the future.

[AlanY]

Just for our clarity I shall also explain my views on your named factors too:

1.Pressure
Every top ranked player is under pressure.(Whether it's more or less,is our logical guess.)All of them experience similar nerve problems (past press interviews indicate that). What is important however is how the players deal with this pressure. Everyone can deal with presuure in varying amount until they crumble. IMO LD is not so good in this area. I think he uses his confidence to overcome the nerves. in OG2004 I don't think LD was under pressure in 1st Rd but he still crumbled. I would say LCW is actually better at dealing with pressure under the same confidence levels- only LCW normal confidence levels are lower.

2.Rankings
Rankings mean nothing, there are no prizes and no tournament victories won by ranking. When I have referred to ranking I have meant it in the context of te groups of players. I see LD as the best player on his own. Behind him I see BCL, LCW, CJ as the closest rivals, and they are similar in normal level. further behind there are a large number of players like TH,PG,SDK etc... who are of similar level also. Therefore to beat LD, LCW/BCL/CJ must perform above their normal level if LD also performs his normal level. If LD performs slightly below par LCW/BCL/CJ may beat him at their normal level. For PG/TH/SDK to beat LD they must perform at their top current ability and LD must have a bad day.

3.Vulnerability
I think I dealt with the vulnerability issue above, LD is not untouchable, no one is, it just depends how bad LD plays on the day against his opponent.

4.Confidence
I measure confidence on how the player plays - how quick do they move, do they play the correct shot or do they pull out and hit a clear or a drop when they could have killed it.

I have seen LCW play when he is confident and he really looks unbeatable he moves behind the shuttle, hits it early and the opponent cannot live with his speed so he cannot take control.

LD uses confidence in a different way. when he is confident he plays more defensively, moves his opponents to the extremities of the court and counter attacks. This has the added benefit that it tires the opponent out and takes the edge off their speed. The disadvantage of LCW is if he plays like this and the shuttles come back and he loses some points then the bubble can burst. LCW seems to have difficulty to play defensively because he seems to associate this with moving slowly and play slow strokes he does not mix it up so well.


The forum is littered with me saying such things, but I shall say it once more. LCW has much higher potential than LD. He is more agile, has better deception and can move faster. His problem is he does not use all these things at the right time and in the right order, and until he learns to he will contiue the way he has been. I have noted also before that if you look at his results over his career so far excepting the first few years his results have been similar for the past 4 years in terms of victories.

LD however plays to his strengths more, he extends the rallies to use his endurance and finishes points off in the midcourt when he gets the chance. very rarely does LD hit smashes from the rearcourt.

In short I agree with you-his tactics are wrong, and you can see when he plays the right tactics he can destroy players. But his confdence seems not to allow him to play this way consistently all the way throught big tournaments, may be the pressure sways he thinking?
nice analysis. one other factor i would like to add is the home supports. it is difficult to quantify but my guess is a 3-5 points advantage per game. if that 3-5 points materialised at the start of the game for LD it will be difficult for anyone to do the catch up as LD been known to be a front runner.

[Dato A]

nice analysis. one other factor i would like to add is the home supports. it is difficult to quantify but my guess is a 3-5 points advantage per game. if that 3-5 points materialised at the start of the game for LD it will be difficult for anyone to do the catch up as LD been known to be a front runner.

Add the lines-men contribution of 1-3 points, LYB ''Break legs staement'' of 1-3points then LD sure win!:D

[SibugiChai]

I know TH and LD were No.1s in 00 and 04. How about 92 and 96? Who were No.1 seeds then?

I think

92 is Zhao Jianhua

96 is Heryanto Arbi

00 is Taufik

04 is LD

No one suceeded! :p

[SibugiChai]

Add the lines-men contribution of 1-3 points, LYB ''Break legs staement'' of 1-3points then LD sure win!:D

Oppsss

Forget that CHina got Home court advantages....

:mad:

[ctjcad]

I think

92 is Zhao Jianhua

96 is Heryanto Arbi

00 is Taufik

04 is LD

No one suceeded! :p
..for the info, i think those look about right..:cool:

[pralinescream]

have sudden realisation!
is pointless to continue discuss in this thread.
lin dan purposely lost to lee chongwei is comrade li's wily strategy in motion. firstly is bcos
(1) holding back superweapons b4 unleash for max impact.
(2) weak minded lee chongwei under pressure will crumble easily n lost to chekai opponent in early rnds b4 he even gets chance to sniff lin dan's on court sweat.

so all comparison of head2head matches btwn supremely talented lin dan and lee chongwei is just waste of bandwidth.

cracks me up heartily to read dat sum ppl actually thinks lee chongwei can be more skilful den lin dan.
-lee can only win whenever lin dan allows him to (like in MAS open in east malaysia). i was mentioned previously dat lin dan purposely lost and gave lee sum face (apparently lee chongwei r frens with lin dan and looks up to him a lot). aiyaa, summore lee was playing in homegnd, won't b nice not to let him win a bit.

[SibugiChai]

have sudden realisation!
is pointless to continue discuss in this thread.
lin dan purposely lost to lee chongwei is comrade li's wily strategy in motion. firstly is bcos
(1) holding back superweapons b4 unleash for max impact.
(2) weak minded lee chongwei under pressure will crumble easily n lost to chekai opponent in early rnds b4 he even gets chance to sniff lin dan's on court sweat.

LCW used to be weak mentally, I think LD didnt lost purposely but rather he doesnt has the 100% will to WIN!

But I still think LCW vs LD is 49% vs 51%...

LD can be so good at times but LCW seems to have model his game to counter LD purposely. :cool:

[limsy]

-lee can only win whenever lin dan allows him to (like in MAS open in east malaysia). i was mentioned previously dat lin dan purposely lost and gave lee sum face (apparently lee chongwei r frens with lin dan and looks up to him a lot). aiyaa, summore lee was playing in homegnd, won't b nice not to let him win a bit.

hahax...wow...u seem to be so funny...then why taufik didnt give lcw win the OG gold...hahax...if he GAVE lcw win...the he can get the great oscar award...as ld threw his raquet to lcw court after losing...if want to give...give a walkover lor...why need so pity...playing 3 set and let lcw become a part of history with record of biggest come back win in final against world no.1 ...hahax...

[Makkem_1]

im aware i'm committing the unpardonable sin of copying my own post, but this is how I see it.

Here's how I see it:
Favourite - Lin Dan: For a variety of reasons has to be favourite to win the tournament. Lin Dan is a strong accurate player, with the best power game. His only game weaknesses are he is exploitable at the net and a weak reverse backhand, which you hardly ever see.

Main challenger: LCW - Synopsis: LCW has a slight edge over LD if it goes head to head, but is less likely to make it to the final. But these two are streets ahead of everyone else.

For all his strengths, he (LD) can be beaten and I don't think he is the best player around. I think if LCW plays as he did for the first set of the TC encounter he can take LD no problem no matter LD's game plan. Straight games. This requires a workhorse approach keeping LD working with no time to pick his winners. This requires fast clears and sharp drops - mainly pinning Lin Dan to a side - no crosscourt clearing especially not to LD's backhand, as that will lose him the point: it is more work to cover a straight lift followed by drop on a side than to run the diagonal, plus because you're reversing direction at the 'base' it gives your opponent less time to unleash the heavy smash. Leave Lin Dan the risk of attempting to crosscourt: Chong Wei's defence is good enough, and he won't try too many crosscourts from his forehand, as if LCW gets anything on it, it's going down the line (LD's backhand). The only time LCW should crosscourt is on attempted kills from midcourt and occasionally at net. But mainly, not give LD the time to react: play the front court agressively: no lifts from net, straight in and kill the shuttle . Second set LCW reverted to type a bit but still won.

The other area LCW can exploit is bodysmashing LD which is so under-rated. He nailed LD there loads of times. The best thing about a body smash is even if it comes back, it is hard to get it into open court, whereas you can at least try to do more with a smash at the lines. Key is speed (less deceptive drops and net) and using speed to take the initiative, athleticism to get airtime to get sharper attacks leaving LD having to scramble shuttles from the floor. Drops are the main killer weapon here, not smashes. Where LCW gets in trouble normally is playing with poor shot selection - too many crosscourt lifts forehand to backhand clear especially. LD anticipates them well, and rifles a straight smash onto the line round the head (his best shot), or simply wrongfoots Lee by going back the way it came. The proof is that LCW concedes most points against LD down his backhand side, by far. Check the stats, see eg AE semis where Lin Dan won in 3 old-scoring. Considering the converse is not true (50:50). Lin Dan is a nightmare because he's huge and got a great jump, he'd be an awesome basketball player. I think it's actually easier for him to pick his spot for a crosscourt lift because a crosscourt takes more time to reach the back line and crosses LD'S base position. But if LCW plays the percentages and avoids the crosscourt he can work LD to death. Most players just can't keep LD working, because they get caught too often - LD can score a lot of points within three strokes and walk away from his opponent, especially in 21 points. LCW can move faster, and keep LD working harder than he wants to. Deny him the opportunity to score quick points and his confidence will go.

The only problem i see with this is temprament. Lin Dan being a volatile guy is his strength:) when he gets wronged, his attitude is 'Ill show you' he doesn't get discouraged. Like a badminton Roy Keane. A bit like a badminton MacEnroe as well, in that he turns it on and off :cool: (he gets angry like against LHI in the Korean open, 'vents' a bit: then asks his opponent 'what do you think about that call' (Well if I was LHI I would feel a bit guilty - hence a bit less likely to fight - he actually played better after he got pissed off, with better focus, in that occasion, but the tiebreak is a lottery and LHI hung on) LCW pressures himself, on occasion, and his mindset at times seems to be of 'wanting to please': to do well for other people. Successful sportsmen like LD and Taufik don't care less about that: they create their own 'mystique'. When LD loses he acts like it is normal and he's playing games. Of course sometimes he is:eek:, when LCW loses it's obvious how much he cares, IMO, whilst LCW is respected as a player by his peers, he doesn't get under their skin as much as he should. He should aim to be a Borg of badminton: show less emotion in keeping with his rally style. Then he would depress his peers, save ten impossible shots and look like 'hey that was easy' and make his opponent think (I can't get to this guy:crying:):). Mind you, i like it that he cares but that's only because it reminds me of me.

I think the olympics factor will even up the stress factor: in a super series event, i'd back lin dan to win, because that's like his backyard, in TC i'd back LCW because LD is nervous having to play for more than himself. LCW is nervous too but it factors less because he's about as nervous as he can be most of the time i think! Same for olympics. People like Taufik handle it better because they genuinely see it the same as any other match than people like LD.

Also, LCW is usually a bit more nervous, he's also not a great thinker within a game, if his opponent pulls out a few surprises i.e. Chen Jin caught him cold at the AE this year, just by lifting from net all the time and then anicipating a dropshot, having found that CW was fast enough to negate even his old-fashioned clearing game he tried at the French open. LCW kept falling into the trap, and doing the dropshot, then getting caught. Or when he played Boonsak recently. LD is brighter than the average bear: :cool: as the saying goes and thinks on his feet: LCW is disciplined and brave but relies heavily on his coaches. That's a big problem.

I reckon LD will win, though, I'd prefer lcw to win. :p I just think that LD's 'street smarts' give him a chance in a one on one match up, just offsetting LCW's super-speed and sharp drops, (his new weapon-mmmmm upgrades!!!:eek:) but IMO it's very possible it goes either way.:D LCW is the better of the two, but I fear that a smart challenger like CJ or perhaps PSH could nail him before the final, unless he specifically has a good tactics. (I'm also assuming the Chinese armada will have orders to lose gently against LD:p)

The Challengers

LD's Nemeses: PSH, LHI (I'm paranoid and leaving out Team China opponents) and the Indonesian lads Simon and Sony all do decently against Lin Dan. Sony has the potential to genuinely upset LD, he usually narrowly loses though. He's a good all around player. Park has a positive head-to-head, but Lin Dan is frankly superior, Park does well because of his good netplay. Lee HI has the capacity to be a real pain, with his defensive abilities plus a seriously nasty left handed smash.

Taufik isn't as up for it and he has to play such a perfect game to hide his lack of stamina these days: I'd bet my house on him if it was a 5 point match though against LD! Gade's back to somewhere near a decent level, but he's fundamentally unsuited to beat Lin Dan, even when he was on his game, Lin Dan is the anti-Gade and I think Gade's won only one in a lot of attempts.

LCW's nemeses: Himself (randomly playing awfully), CY is a massive threat because his netplay is so good, his clears so strong, and he is the most attacking of the Chinese, he's fast and fit enough to cope and he has the potential to slow LCW down and dictate. BCL (awkward, tall, good at netplay enough to offset Lee's speed, good athlete), CJ if he gets his act together and finds the right gameplan. I reckon he's fast enough to beat the Indonesians and recently this would be borne out by evidence. Wierdly, Taufik has a chance I think against Lee but only if he can get the job done in 2 games. He really ought to have won the first game in the AE quarter final. LCW can sort out Park in two, and LHI in three but they aren't as much a threat to LCW as they are speed based players. Nobody else is good enough.

Wannabe's:

Sure Sato is fast enough, I think he's the fastest of all, but he hasn't got enough firepower - uses his speed well to get to the shuttle but won't cause LCW any trouble. Lin Dan would hump him off the court, no problem, just smashes are enough.

Boonsak is good, but won't get past LD when he's in the mood, or LCW, i think the last defeat by LCW is the exception that proves the rule.

Jonassen isn't fast enough at the very top level. LCW would annihilate him, as would Lin Dan, Wacha is unsound technically at the very top level, he's not capable of upseting a top 5 player who is concentrating.

I'm looking at the rest and there's such a huge gulf between the likes of Wong CH and the likes of Bao Chunlai.

Damn this is long:) just my opinions.

[cooler]

hahax...wow...u seem to be so funny...then why taufik didnt give lcw win the OG gold...hahax...if he GAVE lcw win...the he can get the great oscar award...as ld threw his raquet to lcw court after losing...if want to give...give a walkover lor...why need so pity...playing 3 set and let lcw become a part of history with record of biggest come back win in final against world no.1 ...hahax...didnt remembered LD played lcw at 04 OG, LD lost to R. susilo

[ye333]

Aha. Then it is possible that LD break this "No.1 cannot win" jinx.

TH in 00 and LD in 04 lacked experience. ZJH was old. Arbi, well, he was not that exceptional anyway.

So LD is the first No.1 seed in OG who is experienced yet not old (rumor has it that LD is as old now as ZJH in 92, but even if that is true, LD is super-fit while ZJH has heath problems). If LD cannot win OG gold, then it's hard to see any future No.1 seed can do that. :D


I think

92 is Zhao Jianhua

96 is Heryanto Arbi

00 is Taufik

04 is LD

No one suceeded! :p

[ye333]

Yeah LD kicked his racket and refused the warrior hat after the 2006 match so that it looked real. :D An early start of his acting career. :D

Why would LD do that (losing to LCW and getting criticized), in 2005 and 2006, when he was still living in the shadow of Taufik Hidayat? :confused:



-lee can only win whenever lin dan allows him to (like in MAS open in east malaysia). i was mentioned previously dat lin dan purposely lost and gave lee sum face (apparently lee chongwei r frens with lin dan and looks up to him a lot). aiyaa, summore lee was playing in homegnd, won't b nice not to let him win a bit.

[SibugiChai]

Yeah LD kicked his racket and refused the warrior hat after the 2006 match so that it looked real. :D An early start of his acting career. :D

Why would LD do that (losing to LCW and getting criticized), in 2005 and 2006, when he was still living in the shadow of Taufik Hidayat? :confused:

yes! Players sometimes do give their opponent a few points in the start of the game before killing the game off But it doesnt make sense to lose purposely to a arch rivals.

Usually, player would like win against their arch rivals to mantain the MENTAL barriers on their Rivals.

My thought would be that LD do take LCW lightly few years ago but now no more. It would be suicidal...

But I regard LD got better chances to win the GOLD! :cool: "HOME COURT ADVANTAGES!

[cooler]

Yeah LD kicked his racket and refused the warrior hat after the 2006 match so that it looked real. :D An early start of his acting career. :D

Why would LD do that (losing to LCW and getting criticized), in 2005 and 2006, when he was still living in the shadow of Taufik Hidayat? :confused:

how does not wearing stupid hat or kicking racket relate to chances of winning at 08 oG:confused:
I have addressed the LD and LCW action at 06 MAL open several times already, why keep digging it up to support unrelated discussion? scraping the bottom of the barrel for any dirt i presume

[ye333]

Look at the post I was replying to.

The "big" topic is about OG08, but this Paulinescream initiated a "sub" topic of LD deliberately lost to LCW in Malaysia to save LCW's face, and use this to support his claim about the "big" topic. Now you see why it is relevant to reply to his/her "sub" topic? ;)


how does not wearing stupid hat or kicking racket relate to chances of winning at 08 oG:confused:

[ye333]

Agree with you.


yes! Players sometimes do give their opponent a few points in the start of the game before killing the game off But it doesnt make sense to lose purposely to a arch rivals.

Usually, player would like win against their arch rivals to mantain the MENTAL barriers on their Rivals.

My thought would be that LD do take LCW lightly few years ago but now no more. It would be suicidal...

But I regard LD got better chances to win the GOLD! :cool: "HOME COURT ADVANTAGES!

[cooler]

when one is at the top, many want to bring him down.
now that TH-LD feud is fainting away, the new LCW-LD rivalry begins.
See, it's not easy to be #1, everybody want to shoot u down.

[jimbo]

Everyone (in respective fields) is trying to beat Tiger Woods and Federer, and only few had succeded. Thats the reason why these players are "best of the best" in the world, and LinDan certainly falls into the "elite" category.

IMHO, LCW is just like another Nadal or Phil Mickelson... but it aint that bad to be No.2 in the world... ya ;)

[SibugiChai]

when one is at the top, many want to bring him down.
now that TH-LD feud is fainting away, the new LCW-LD rivalry begins.
See, it's not easy to be #1, everybody want to shoot u down.

Not that people wanna shoot #1 down but because people wanna see who can beat the #1... just like other sports!

#1 is the main attraction because #1 is everyone target! :cool:

[X Ball]

Everyone (in respective fields) is trying to beat Tiger Woods and Federer, and only few had succeded. Thats the reason why these players are "best of the best" in the world, and LinDan certainly falls into the "elite" category.

IMHO, LCW is just like another Nadal or Phil Mickelson... but it aint that bad to be No.2 in the world... ya ;)

LCW, love him or hate him, is moving up. He has spent the last two years playing at the top level - losing and winning, taking it all in his stride. In the past when we felt he would win against LD, he lost. When we felt he was going to lose, he won.

The rationale is simple : LD is not a simple player to play against. At his best LD is uncompromising. When his game is flowing, he is a very confident guy : his drop shots, his smashes, etc. all work.

So how did LCW manage to beat him in the TC ? Well, simple. LD is not able to work his magic. He was put on the back foot by LCW. To say LD gave the game away would be an insult to LCW. LCW has been working hard on beating LD - at some point we knew he would beat LD again because he had beaten him before.

Will LD beat LCW again ? Of course, it is very likely but that depends on how LD takes this defeat by LCW. Will he take time to study LCW's new moves and counter it ? To say he won't is stupid. I guess he would have learned or LYB would have pointed out to him the errors he committed against LCW in the TC which were quite a lot.

Now it leaves us to ponder, therefore, whether LD will find the correct moves to counter LCW. Or has LCW learned to become 'foxy' himself, catching up to the smartness of his nemesis (LD). I have seen LCW at his best, and he is unbeatable. He did have a weakness and crumbles when the chips are down but his will is stronger now. He will not be 'KOW TOWing' to anyone anymore -- his physique, his sharpness, his speed are all coming together at the right time. Anyone can see he is seething with confidence.

[samuel882]

Every one aim to beat World no.1 - LD,
But LD himself just need to target on beating LCW alone.

[Pemuda]

LD with all the titles he has won todate is amongst the best out there.

LCW, however still got to prove that he is capable of handling the big tournaments and bag some major honours.

[jimbo]

Every one aim to beat World no.1 - LD,
But LD himself just need to target on beating LCW alone.

Simply NOT true... If he thinks this way, another "Susilo" will eat him up in OG08 :eek::D It all depends on the OG08 draw...

[X Ball]

I like to say in the coming Olympics, previous titles don't mean a lot. Like the 100M athelete, you need to be in form to win.

For me, LCW, BAO, LHI, PSH are the ones running into form. LD is not cutting it (yet).

[Pemuda]

Being on form is important but it also helps if you have the temperament for it too. And LD is certainly capable of showing up in a big tournament.

[samuel882]

Simply NOT true... If he thinks this way, another "Susilo" will eat him up in OG08 :eek::D It all depends on the OG08 draw...
If u think he will let that SOSSY LO thingy happened again in OG08, u will be wrong ;)

[X Ball]

Yes true - temperament is important. But they all have 'big time' temperament now. LCW shone. BAO shone. LHI shone. PSH came close in the TC. If that does not show temperament, then I don't know what is. Besides, all the guys, before they won the Olympics, they could be accused of lacking big time temperament.

When the the adrenalin pumps, everyone will raise their level. Anyone who is in form has a chance. For me, LCW has more.

[SibugiChai]

If u think he will let that SOSSY LO thingy happened again in OG08, u will be wrong ;)

LD is 4year wiser now...

Not a raw kid anymore :cool:

[Pemuda]

Performing well in the recently concluded TC does not mean "oh they now have big time temperament". It should be judged over a series of tournaments and time.

LCW has a higher chance to bag that gold in view of him beating LD in Jakarta??? Hmmm ... :o

[SibugiChai]

Every one aim to beat World no.1 - LD,
But LD himself just need to target on beating LCW alone.

If LD only Target LCW...

He will end up with another "SUSILO"

SUSILO in Hakka = Lost until Die...

I know LD is HAKKA.... :cool:

[X Ball]

Performing well in the recently concluded TC does not mean "oh they now have big time temperament". It should be judged over a series of tournaments and time.

LCW has a higher chance to bag that gold in view of him beating LD in Jakarta??? Hmmm ... :o

Why not ? And what big time temperament have you got to predict he won't ? :D

You, a Malaysian, seem to derive more thrills in saying he won't win then he would, as always.:o

[AlanY]

so LD lost to LCW in the earlier round of this year's TC, what is the big deal? Funny to say that although it was the first match but it was the dead rubber. if MAS lost, MAS will lost 3-0, on the other hand it will be 3-1 to CHN (and the results proved it). it was a warm up match that didn't really matter. everyone knew that the main ones are KOR and IND. so if the world no 1 had a off day, so what?

[SibugiChai]

so LD lost to LCW in the earlier round of this year's TC, what is the big deal? Funny to say that although it was the first match but it was the dead rubber. if MAS lost, MAS will lost 3-0, on the other hand it will be 3-1 to CHN (and the results proved it). it was a warm up match that didn't really matter. everyone knew that the main ones are KOR and IND. so if the world no 1 had a off day, so what?

Day off are a disease, once it started it spread to the whole body!

Expecting another day off!! :D

[limsy]

If LD only Target LCW...

He will end up with another "SUSILO"

SUSILO in Hakka = Lost until Die...

I know LD is HAKKA.... :cool:

haha...so...are u hakka too???...i am...

[Pemuda]

Why not ? And what big time temperament have you got to predict he won't ? :D

You, a Malaysian, seem to derive more thrills in saying he won't win then he would, as always.:o

Have a look at all the titles LCW won todate. How many are major ones?? Now, take a look at LD's cabinet. ;)

But , hey, if you think that one match at the TC suddenly gave LCW big time temperament, its cool dude. Its your opinion, anyway. :p

... hmmm with the Chinese & Koreans big guns missing in the coming Sing Open, LCW should win the MS, eh?

Do you mean that by being Malaysian, I have to jump on that hoping against hope bandwagon? :o By being Malaysian, we are not supposed to think and derive our own opinions/predictions?? :o And by being Malaysian, we must only support only Malaysian teams/athletes etc etc???

:o

[pralinescream]

hahax...wow...u seem to be so funny...then why taufik didnt give lcw win the OG gold...hahax...if he GAVE lcw win...the he can get the great oscar award...as ld threw his raquet to lcw court after losing...if want to give...give a walkover lor...why need so pity...playing 3 set and let lcw become a part of history with record of biggest come back win in final against world no.1 ...hahax...

pls use some common sense. it'd be more face-saving for lcw if he ever get to beat lin dan instead of being given walkover.
- weak as he is, lcw will not allow such a thg to hang over his career. and lin dan understds dat too. so since lcw absolutely idolizes lin dan, better juz let lcw win the chekai titles.
:D

[victory]

Have a look at all the titles LCW won todate. How many are major ones?? Now, take a look at LD's cabinet. ;)

But , hey, if you think that one match at the TC suddenly gave LCW big time temperament, its cool dude. Its your opinion, anyway. :p

... hmmm with the Chinese & Koreans big guns missing in the coming Sing Open, LCW should win the MS, eh?

Do you mean that by being Malaysian, I have to jump on that hoping against hope bandwagon? :o By being Malaysian, we are not supposed to think and derive our own opinions/predictions?? :o And by being Malaysian, we must only support only Malaysian teams/athletes etc etc???

:o

If you think that "ONE MACTH" where LCW thrashed LD convincingly during TC is not a good indication that LCW has temperament to be the world best player, I don't know what is.

By the way LCW also thrashed LD during last year Japan Open and then finally won the title by beating Taufik in the final......

By the way LCW also thrashed LD during Asian game team event....

By the way LCW has the record where he defeated LD even when LCW tailling 13-20 to LD .......( I don't see the other way around).Man, use your brain to think, what kind of fighting spirit LCW possess....YOU SHOULD FEEL PROUD!! AND NOT CONTINOUSLY belittle your fellow malaysian player!!

By the way LCW also beaten some toughest opponents namely Bao and Chen Jin enroute to win France Open . Mind you he was enduring an injured knee at that time........

By the way even LD ,LYB, Tang shian Hu, Lee Mao and many other top coaches ( in case you don't know, they are pro and you are not...) also recognize LCW' prowess.....In fact I would say they fear his prowess by now!

LCW is an extremely good badminton player and he has everything to be the best in the world! It is not just X Ball or my opinion! A lot of pro and badminton fans think the same. Clear your ear and listen....Dude!

Lastly, I feel extremely puzzled by your statement " by being Malaysian, we must only support Malaysian teams/athletes?" If you are Malaysian WHY SHOULDN'T you support malaysian teams/athletes? You like to see Malaysian players defeat by other countries players?? You don't feel proud when Malaysian flag flying high?? You don't feel delighted to see Malaysian players receiving gold medals??

[eaglehelang]

so LD lost to LCW in the earlier round of this year's TC, what is the big deal? Funny to say that although it was the first match but it was the dead rubber. if MAS lost, MAS will lost 3-0, on the other hand it will be 3-1 to CHN (and the results proved it). it was a warm up match that didn't really matter. everyone knew that the main ones are KOR and IND. so if the world no 1 had a off day, so what?

In the Msian press, no big deal, the focus is on why Msia lost to China in TC.

For LCW, good for his confidence as OG preparation, he made another step in breakthru in terms of major tournament pressure. He's always critized for crumbling to pressure at major events, TC is major, he was 1st MS for Msia, need to deliver a pt since MS2 & MS3 not on par with China. Rexy said (though it's abt MD)he considered TC to be higher pressure than OG cos the whole team counting on the player/pair.

The funny thing is a few LD fans & non-LCW fans are unhappy that a few LCW hard core fans (can count with 10 fingers) are happy with the win.

[AlanY]

In the Msian press, no big deal, the focus is on why Msia lost to China in TC.

For LCW, good for his confidence as OG preparation, he made another step in breakthru in terms of major tournament pressure. He's always critized for crumbling to pressure at major events, TC is major, he was 1st MS for Msia, need to deliver a pt since MS2 & MS3 not on par with China. Rexy said (though it's abt MD)he considered TC to be higher pressure than OG cos the whole team counting on the player/pair.

The funny thing is a few LD fans & non-LCW fans are unhappy that a few LCW hard core fans (can count with 10 fingers) are happy with the win.
what i will say is i cant wait for the olympics, particularly badminton.
one must understand that you can train as hard as you can but you cant train for the high preesure situation. it's something that you can or cant deal with it. training wouldnt help.

[cooler]

In the Msian press, no big deal, the focus is on why Msia lost to China in TC.

For LCW, good for his confidence as OG preparation, he made another step in breakthru in terms of major tournament pressure. He's always critized for crumbling to pressure at major events, TC is major, he was 1st MS for Msia, need to deliver a pt since MS2 & MS3 not on par with China. Rexy said (though it's abt MD)he considered TC to be higher pressure than OG cos the whole team counting on the player/pair.

The funny thing is a few LD fans & non-LCW fans are unhappy that a few LCW hard core fans (can count with 10 fingers) are happy with the win.
no no, i'm not unhappy about lcw's win, it's the noise from the exothermic reaction from his win that is expanding at rate faster than the medals coming in. This will only increases the pressure onto lcw that he might freeze up in the OG:p
Boyle's Law clearly state that PV=constant,

where:

P denotes the pressure of the system.
V is the volume of the system.
k is a constant value representative of the pressure and volume of the system.



When that happen, all hell will break loose for the MAL/lcw fans

[cooler]

In the Msian press, no big deal, the focus is on why Msia lost to China in TC.

For LCW, good for his confidence as OG preparation, he made another step in breakthru in terms of major tournament pressure. He's always critized for crumbling to pressure at major events, TC is major, he was 1st MS for Msia, need to deliver a pt since MS2 & MS3 not on par with China. Rexy said (though it's abt MD)he considered TC to be higher pressure than OG cos the whole team counting on the player/pair.

The funny thing is a few LD fans & non-LCW fans are unhappy that a few LCW hard core fans (can count with 10 fingers) are happy with the win..................................

[cooler]

In the Msian press, no big deal, the focus is on why Msia lost to China in TC.

For LCW, good for his confidence as OG preparation, he made another step in breakthru in terms of major tournament pressure. He's always critized for crumbling to pressure at major events, TC is major, he was 1st MS for Msia, need to deliver a pt since MS2 & MS3 not on par with China. Rexy said (though it's abt MD)he considered TC to be higher pressure than OG cos the whole team counting on the player/pair.

The funny thing is a few LD fans & non-LCW fans are unhappy that a few LCW hard core fans (can count with 10 fingers) are happy with the win.

no no no, i'm not unhappy about lcw's win or the lost of LD, what concern me is all the noise of the exothermic reaction coming from the MAL fans after lcw's recent win over LD that is expanding at rate faster than the medals coming in. This will only increases the pressure onto lcw that he might freezes up in the upcoming OG.
Boyle's Law clearly state that PV=k (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyle's_law)

where:

P denotes the pressure of the system.
V is the volume of the system.
k is a constant value representative of the pressure and volume of the system.

When a condition that i have observed as described above is in manifestation where both the noise VOLUME AND PRESSURE on lcw are INCREASING, this will upset the balance of nature and only lead to one thing, ALL HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE


:cool:er

[limsy]

pls use some common sense. it'd be more face-saving for lcw if he ever get to beat lin dan instead of being given walkover.
- weak as he is, lcw will not allow such a thg to hang over his career. and lin dan understds dat too. so since lcw absolutely idolizes lin dan, better juz let lcw win the chekai titles.
:D

anybody can help me to call ambulans???...i keep laugh till fall from the chair...haha...ok lar...let me say this way

...lin dan was the god of ms:eek:...and he can do whatever he want and let go whatever he think cheap and useless...applause...^^...:D...so...after reading this...maybe u will happy a whole day...^^...;)...have a nice day...^^...

[limsy]

OG.
Boyle's Law clearly state that PV=k (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyle's_law)

where:

P denotes the pressure of the system.
V is the volume of the system.
k is a constant value representative of the pressure and volume of the system.

When a condition that i have observed as described above is in manifestation where both the noise VOLUME AND PRESSURE on lcw are INCREASING, this will upset the balance of nature and only lead to one thing, ALL HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE


:cool:er

wow...the subject i love the most...so good that a law can derived in bc...^^...

[hollywood_t]

Hmm,

interesting so it's back to the strategy of making your opponnent use more energy than you do. I like your analysis. It works for LCW as it plays to his strenghts speed, net play and keeps away from his weaknesses shot selection by keeping it simple.

Can it be done for an entire match when the opponnent is aware of it?

Wonder what it would take to counter the LCW strategy. The counter to the net strategy we've seen before. It can be countered by anticipation and aggresively lifting from the net. LD did this in 2006 and CJ just copied it. Either into the middle or crosscourt. A lift to the middle will reverse the tables and speed up the game for LCW if LD takes the shuttle early at the net. If LCW is tempted to smash from here there will be no angle and this will use up his energy reserve.

Cross court is more risky. The court opens up and LCW has more time to react. This should only be used to mix things up to keep LCW guessing. An occasional lift to LCW's backhand corner is good. Round the head takes alot of energy and more time to recover from while unless u are Taufik a backhand will be slower and more defensive.

The main thing though is how to break the pattern if being pinned down on a side. When serving a flick serve will be useful. Or a long deep serve. Especially playing down the center. Serving short to the corner will also work, the high percentage is a crosscourt lift or drop which opens up the game and plays to LD style. All other shots straight lift, net shot are lower percentage i.e. you are changing the direction of the bird so LCW will be the one under pressure. So varying the serve and using the corners will make a big difference.

In the rally & backcourt. Clearing deep into the center might work, or even a slightly shallow clear to temp the opponent into power smashing.

Other wise flat clears to the corners might work, backhand corner is more dangerous. Flatter to the forehand can work. It's difficult to move into position to hit down so push flat into the forehand and go to the net & control play from there. If LD can do the Zhao where he disguised his clear this would be magic but ....

The other is med/waist level smashes down the line. These are difficult to do anthing with so will slow things down a bit. Either a flat push comes back or LCW would have to lift.

I guess the keys for LD are to read the pattern of play and play a very tactical game to break the clear & drop pattern. Taking control from the first point will be huge. He'll have to return or serve to different areas on the court to make it harde for LCW to take control. He will also have to anticipate the drop and straight clears and either push aggressively from the net or play some med paced flatter shots to break the pattern.

I think in a free for all LD adapts quicker whereas if you can break LCW's rhythm it takes him several point to reestablish. If LCW can ride those moments out quickly he has a good chance to take the match.



im aware i'm committing the unpardonable sin of copying my own post, but this is how I see it.

Here's how I see it:
Favourite - Lin Dan: For a variety of reasons has to be favourite to win the tournament. Lin Dan is a strong accurate player, with the best power game. His only game weaknesses are he is exploitable at the net and a weak reverse backhand, which you hardly ever see.

Main challenger: LCW - Synopsis: LCW has a slight edge over LD if it goes head to head, but is less likely to make it to the final. But these two are streets ahead of everyone else.

For all his strengths, he (LD) can be beaten and I don't think he is the best player around. I think if LCW plays as he did for the first set of the TC encounter he can take LD no problem no matter LD's game plan. Straight games. This requires a workhorse approach keeping LD working with no time to pick his winners. This requires fast clears and sharp drops - mainly pinning Lin Dan to a side - no crosscourt clearing especially not to LD's backhand, as that will lose him the point: it is more work to cover a straight lift followed by drop on a side than to run the diagonal, plus because you're reversing direction at the 'base' it gives your opponent less time to unleash the heavy smash. Leave Lin Dan the risk of attempting to crosscourt: Chong Wei's defence is good enough, and he won't try too many crosscourts from his forehand, as if LCW gets anything on it, it's going down the line (LD's backhand). The only time LCW should crosscourt is on attempted kills from midcourt and occasionally at net. But mainly, not give LD the time to react: play the front court agressively: no lifts from net, straight in and kill the shuttle . Second set LCW reverted to type a bit but still won.

The other area LCW can exploit is bodysmashing LD which is so under-rated. He nailed LD there loads of times. The best thing about a body smash is even if it comes back, it is hard to get it into open court, whereas you can at least try to do more with a smash at the lines. Key is speed (less deceptive drops and net) and using speed to take the initiative, athleticism to get airtime to get sharper attacks leaving LD having to scramble shuttles from the floor. Drops are the main killer weapon here, not smashes. Where LCW gets in trouble normally is playing with poor shot selection - too many crosscourt lifts forehand to backhand clear especially. LD anticipates them well, and rifles a straight smash onto the line round the head (his best shot), or simply wrongfoots Lee by going back the way it came. The proof is that LCW concedes most points against LD down his backhand side, by far. Check the stats, see eg AE semis where Lin Dan won in 3 old-scoring. Considering the converse is not true (50:50). Lin Dan is a nightmare because he's huge and got a great jump, he'd be an awesome basketball player. I think it's actually easier for him to pick his spot for a crosscourt lift because a crosscourt takes more time to reach the back line and crosses LD'S base position. But if LCW plays the percentages and avoids the crosscourt he can work LD to death. Most players just can't keep LD working, because they get caught too often - LD can score a lot of points within three strokes and walk away from his opponent, especially in 21 points. LCW can move faster, and keep LD working harder than he wants to. Deny him the opportunity to score quick points and his confidence will go.

The only problem i see with this is temprament. Lin Dan being a volatile guy is his strength:) when he gets wronged, his attitude is 'Ill show you' he doesn't get discouraged. Like a badminton Roy Keane. A bit like a badminton MacEnroe as well, in that he turns it on and off :cool: (he gets angry like against LHI in the Korean open, 'vents' a bit: then asks his opponent 'what do you think about that call' (Well if I was LHI I would feel a bit guilty - hence a bit less likely to fight - he actually played better after he got pissed off, with better focus, in that occasion, but the tiebreak is a lottery and LHI hung on) LCW pressures himself, on occasion, and his mindset at times seems to be of 'wanting to please': to do well for other people. Successful sportsmen like LD and Taufik don't care less about that: they create their own 'mystique'. When LD loses he acts like it is normal and he's playing games. Of course sometimes he is:eek:, when LCW loses it's obvious how much he cares, IMO, whilst LCW is respected as a player by his peers, he doesn't get under their skin as much as he should. He should aim to be a Borg of badminton: show less emotion in keeping with his rally style. Then he would depress his peers, save ten impossible shots and look like 'hey that was easy' and make his opponent think (I can't get to this guy:crying:):). Mind you, i like it that he cares but that's only because it reminds me of me.

I think the olympics factor will even up the stress factor: in a super series event, i'd back lin dan to win, because that's like his backyard, in TC i'd back LCW because LD is nervous having to play for more than himself. LCW is nervous too but it factors less because he's about as nervous as he can be most of the time i think! Same for olympics. People like Taufik handle it better because they genuinely see it the same as any other match than people like LD.

Also, LCW is usually a bit more nervous, he's also not a great thinker within a game, if his opponent pulls out a few surprises i.e. Chen Jin caught him cold at the AE this year, just by lifting from net all the time and then anicipating a dropshot, having found that CW was fast enough to negate even his old-fashioned clearing game he tried at the French open. LCW kept falling into the trap, and doing the dropshot, then getting caught. Or when he played Boonsak recently. LD is brighter than the average bear: :cool: as the saying goes and thinks on his feet: LCW is disciplined and brave but relies heavily on his coaches. That's a big problem.

I reckon LD will win, though, I'd prefer lcw to win. :p I just think that LD's 'street smarts' give him a chance in a one on one match up, just offsetting LCW's super-speed and sharp drops, (his new weapon-mmmmm upgrades!!!:eek:) but IMO it's very possible it goes either way.:D LCW is the better of the two, but I fear that a smart challenger like CJ or perhaps PSH could nail him before the final, unless he specifically has a good tactics. (I'm also assuming the Chinese armada will have orders to lose gently against LD:p)

The Challengers

LD's Nemeses: PSH, LHI (I'm paranoid and leaving out Team China opponents) and the Indonesian lads Simon and Sony all do decently against Lin Dan. Sony has the potential to genuinely upset LD, he usually narrowly loses though. He's a good all around player. Park has a positive head-to-head, but Lin Dan is frankly superior, Park does well because of his good netplay. Lee HI has the capacity to be a real pain, with his defensive abilities plus a seriously nasty left handed smash.

Taufik isn't as up for it and he has to play such a perfect game to hide his lack of stamina these days: I'd bet my house on him if it was a 5 point match though against LD! Gade's back to somewhere near a decent level, but he's fundamentally unsuited to beat Lin Dan, even when he was on his game, Lin Dan is the anti-Gade and I think Gade's won only one in a lot of attempts.

LCW's nemeses: Himself (randomly playing awfully), CY is a massive threat because his netplay is so good, his clears so strong, and he is the most attacking of the Chinese, he's fast and fit enough to cope and he has the potential to slow LCW down and dictate. BCL (awkward, tall, good at netplay enough to offset Lee's speed, good athlete), CJ if he gets his act together and finds the right gameplan. I reckon he's fast enough to beat the Indonesians and recently this would be borne out by evidence. Wierdly, Taufik has a chance I think against Lee but only if he can get the job done in 2 games. He really ought to have won the first game in the AE quarter final. LCW can sort out Park in two, and LHI in three but they aren't as much a threat to LCW as they are speed based players. Nobody else is good enough.

Wannabe's:

Sure Sato is fast enough, I think he's the fastest of all, but he hasn't got enough firepower - uses his speed well to get to the shuttle but won't cause LCW any trouble. Lin Dan would hump him off the court, no problem, just smashes are enough.

Boonsak is good, but won't get past LD when he's in the mood, or LCW, i think the last defeat by LCW is the exception that proves the rule.

Jonassen isn't fast enough at the very top level. LCW would annihilate him, as would Lin Dan, Wacha is unsound technically at the very top level, he's not capable of upseting a top 5 player who is concentrating.

I'm looking at the rest and there's such a huge gulf between the likes of Wong CH and the likes of Bao Chunlai.

Damn this is long:) just my opinions.

[volcom]

Have a look at all the titles LCW won todate. How many are major ones?? Now, take a look at LD's cabinet. ;)

But , hey, if you think that one match at the TC suddenly gave LCW big time temperament, its cool dude. Its your opinion, anyway. :p

... hmmm with the Chinese & Koreans big guns missing in the coming Sing Open, LCW should win the MS, eh?

Do you mean that by being Malaysian, I have to jump on that hoping against hope bandwagon? :o By being Malaysian, we are not supposed to think and derive our own opinions/predictions?? :o And by being Malaysian, we must only support only Malaysian teams/athletes etc etc???

:o

I doubt LCW will win SO in my humble opinion, will see the reactions after that.

[X Ball]

Have a look at all the titles LCW won todate. How many are major ones?? Now, take a look at LD's cabinet. ;)

But , hey, if you think that one match at the TC suddenly gave LCW big time temperament, its cool dude. Its your opinion, anyway. :p

... hmmm with the Chinese & Koreans big guns missing in the coming Sing Open, LCW should win the MS, eh?

Do you mean that by being Malaysian, I have to jump on that hoping against hope bandwagon? :o By being Malaysian, we are not supposed to think and derive our own opinions/predictions?? :o And by being Malaysian, we must only support only Malaysian teams/athletes etc etc???

:o

Like I say, I don't know how you get your thrill if not cheering for Malaysia.

[jamesd20]

Like I say, I don't know how you get your thrill if not cheering for Malaysia.

Maybe you are more patriotic than others....I for one do not generally support the ENG pairs, unless I happen to like them (which currently I don't), but it does not stop me enjoying the games and getting excited. During TC final I was jumping up and down with excitement when the games were close and I am niether Korean or Chinese.

I am just a fan of badminton, no nation or players in particular.

[X Ball]

Maybe you are more patriotic than others....I for one do not generally support the ENG pairs, unless I happen to like them (which currently I don't), but it does not stop me enjoying the games and getting excited. During TC final I was jumping up and down with excitement when the games were close and I am niether Korean or Chinese.

I am just a fan of badminton, no nation or players in particular.


It is not the same James - if LCW is English, you would cheer for him, wouldn't you ? The guy has shown so much and he gets 'knocked' by some cocky poster who is Malaysian is unacceptable.

[Rachel Wood]

I doubt LCW will win SO in my humble opinion, will see the reactions after that.

Chen Yu will win S'pore SS:D

[Rachel Wood]

By the way LCW also thrashed LD during Asian game team event....



never..............

[jamesd20]

It is not the same James - if LCW is English, you would cheer for him, wouldn't you ? The guy has shown so much and he gets 'knocked' by some cocky poster who is Malaysian is unacceptable.

Personally I would, because I like LCW, however you have to understand that some people for some reason won't like him, therefore don't have to be compelled to like and support him purely because they were born in the same country.

[X Ball]

Personally I would, because I like LCW, however you have to understand that some people for some reason won't like him, therefore don't have to be compelled to like and support him purely because they were born in the same country.

And for that reason, I ask where he then gets his thrills.;)

[eaglehelang]

Personally I would, because I like LCW, however you have to understand that some people for some reason won't like him, therefore don't have to be compelled to like and support him purely because they were born in the same country.

Yes, they dont have to support but constantly critising 98% of the time is different . Like if dont critise/bash cannot, see other people praise the player also cannot.
And.. bashing the fans along the way - the motive behind it (someone already mentioned this) is in question. Look at all the locked threads.;);)
& with such action cause Msians to look bad in the sight of non Msians, with the perception -> "Msians are a negative lot".

Most interestingly, these criticism has caused quite a number of non Msians speak up & defend the Msian players, kah kah. Hmm, why would the non Msians do that (& face the risk of being bashed too), even when they're not fans of the players ?

Maybe that's what Xball meant by thrills - thrills of critising 98% of the time.

[jimbo]

And for that reason, I ask where he then gets his thrills.;)

aiya... may be it's just "reverse psychology" or he was Msia ex-sport player but kena sabo or treated unfairly by Msia officials/coaches/etc... :eek:??? I dun know lah... but like it or not, we (Msia Boleh fans) should at least try to support our local boys/girls instead of bashing at them... :rolleyes:

[eaglehelang]

aiya... may be it's just "reverse psychology" or he was Msia ex-sport player but kena sabo or treated unfairly by Msia officials/coaches/etc... :eek:??? I dun know lah... but like it or not, we (Msia Boleh fans) should at least try to support our local boys/girls instead of bashing at them... :rolleyes:

LOL, sabo, LOL. Jimbo, after a couple of years in Spore you still know all the Msian slang.
Not reverse psychology lah, the reverse psy "expert" is Vching.

[jimbo]

LOL, sabo, LOL. Jimbo, after a couple of years in Spore you still know all the Msian slang.
Not reverse psychology lah, the reverse psy "expert" is Vching.

errr... "sabo" is also frequently used in SG... so, it's NOT Msia slang... :rolleyes:

i oso dun know why he always hammer our local boys/girls... haha... may be we should see "him" play baddie then we comment lor... haha :p

[jamesd20]

And for that reason, I ask where he then gets his thrills.;)

You obvisouly derive thrills from patritotic fervour, they obviously derive it by the opposite-which is not my idea of fun, nor do I think it makes good forum discussion, but as eaglehang says, look at all the locked threads.

Anyhow this is off topic, and not adding to the discussion. Has anyone got any new points to make?

[pjswift]

You obvisouly derive thrills from patritotic fervour, they obviously derive it by the opposite-which is not my idea of fun, nor do I think it makes good forum discussion, but as eaglehang says, look at all the locked threads.

Anyhow this is off topic, and not adding to the discussion. Has anyone got any new points to make?
Yes, later.Ok, this weekend.Can't think right now, got other priorities. Have to compartmentalise nowadays.

[reiko80]

hi...i think lcw back inform in last thomas cup is too early....Ld is now have the video tape how lcw play in that tournament......so LCW need to becareful for this coming olympic games....any comment??

[Han]

hi...i think lcw back inform in last thomas cup is too early....Ld is now have the video tape how lcw play in that tournament......so LCW need to becareful for this coming olympic games....any comment??

You can have all sort of strategies but player has to be able to execute in order to win. Chong Wei and Lin Dan knows each other style of play so well so element of surprise thru game plan, though exist, should not be the key issue. Anyone of them have a better touch and make less un-force errors will come out as victor, IMHO.
We all automatically assume Lin Dan will meet Chong Wei in the final and forget about other dangerous dark horses like Bao, Soni, Hyun Il, Sung Hwan, Chen Jin, Boonsak, Gade, Jonassen and yes, Susilo too.
Anyway, I don't recall any previous Olympic had #1 vs #2 in the Final so we may have no chance to find out your hypothesis :D

[reiko80]

You can have all sort of strategies but player has to be able to execute in order to win. Chong Wei and Lin Dan knows each other style of play so well so element of surprise thru game plan, though exist, should not be the key issue. Anyone of them have a better touch and make less un-force errors will come out as victor, IMHO.
We all automatically assume Lin Dan will meet Chong Wei in the final and forget about other dangerous dark horses like Bao, Soni, Hyun Il, Sung Hwan, Chen Jin, Boonsak, Gade, Jonassen and yes, Susilo too.
Anyway, I don't recall any previous Olympic had #1 vs #2 in the Final so we may have no chance to find out your hypothesis :D
but i like LCW to meet LD...........................its a final countdown

[CLELY]

LCW is one of few shuttlers who capable to beat LD, he had defeated LD three times in last 12 months, once in individual tournament (Japan SS 2007) and twice at team competition (Sudirman 2007 & Thomas Cup 2008). No doubt LCW is the most potential threat for LD beside Korean duo Park Sung Hwan & Lee Hyun Il.

[Loh]

LCW is one of few shuttlers who capable to beat LD, he had defeated LD three times in last 12 months, once in individual tournament (Japan SS 2007) and twice at team competition (Sudirman 2007 & Thomas Cup 2008). No doubt LCW is the most potential threat for LD beside Korean duo Park Sung Hwan & Lee Hyun Il.

I think either PSH and LHI will cause an upset. Li Mao is not revealing anything yet and this is most worrying for other top players, especially for LCW and LD! :(

[Han]

I think either PSH and LHI will cause an upset. Li Mao is not revealing anything yet and this is most worrying for other top players, especially for LCW and LD! :(

That's the beauty of MS in Olympic, anything is possible base on Olympic history, recent rivalry records, world ranking and of course the inside(most of the time baseless) scope from BFers :D When all dust is settle, it will clear that Choon Hann is the one who win the gold and Chong Wei silver and you can mark my words!!! :D

[KlasseE]

it will be great if someone cud translate it to English n let everyone know the way LYB gonna to use his strategy to destroy LCW by 'pressure'

星洲日報／體育‧2008.05.19
湯杯3連冠歸功團隊力量‧永波看好宗偉京奧奪金
(印尼‧雅加達）中國羽球隊總教練李永波認為，以本屆湯姆斯杯男單選手的表現為標準，目前大馬“一哥”李宗 偉是奪得奧運會金牌的最大熱門.....他說：“以本屆湯杯的表現來看，我認為李宗偉在本屆奧運會奪得男單 金牌的機會最大。”

Kenn – 馬來西亞葉總教練可別高興得太早, 李永波大灌迷湯, 必有其居心. 如果不相信, 再看以下報導便可知道我們的小李飛刀功力之深厚 , 已可殺敵於千里之外

搜狐体育 2007年12月15日01:58
李永波：奥运金牌数要超历届李宗伟是最强对手
.....李永波给了记者一个为男单运动员减压的建议：“你们可以这样宣传，李宗伟夺冠实力最强，其次是陶 菲克。排第三的是鲍春来，林丹算是排在第四位吧。这样林丹的压力就会小很多。”从这句话不难看出，相比鲍春 来，李永波对于林丹夺冠更有信心。最后李永波还补充了一句：“我希望明年的男单决赛在林丹和鲍春来之间进行 ，这样我就没压力了。”
from http://simplybadminton.blogspot.com/2008/05/blog-post_30.html

[limsy]

hehe...he think that malaysia will so stupid meh???...but some media dont know the situation 1...simply write...even give wrong information...:mad:

[KlasseE]

hehe...he think that malaysia will so stupid meh???...but some media dont know the situation 1...simply write...even give wrong information...:mad:
in fact not the problem of malaysia but for lcw to beware, one of favorites like hot cake, but finally lost tamely to sony in world Championship, n blamed ykh for giving too much pressure on him, i am sure lyb learnt from here...;)

[limsy]

in fact not the problem of malaysia but for lcw to beware, one of favorites like hot cake, but finally lost tamely to sony in world Championship, n blamed ykh for giving too much pressure on him, i am sure lyb learnt from here...;)

him...he is a man now...26 already...hope he will learn...

[bananakid]

it will be great if someone cud translate it to English n let everyone know the way LYB gonna to use his strategy to destroy LCW by 'pressure'

星洲日報／體育‧2008.05.19
湯杯3連冠歸功團隊力量‧永波看好宗偉京奧奪金
(印尼‧雅加達）中國羽球隊總教練李永波認為，以本屆湯姆斯杯男單選手的表現為標準，目前大馬“一哥”李宗 偉是奪得奧運會金牌的最大熱門.....他說：“以本屆湯杯的表現來看，我認為李宗偉在本屆奧運會奪得男單 金牌的機會最大。”

Kenn – 馬來西亞葉總教練可別高興得太早, 李永波大灌迷湯, 必有其居心. 如果不相信, 再看以下報導便可知道我們的小李飛刀功力之深厚 , 已可殺敵於千里之外

搜狐体育 2007年12月15日01:58
李永波：奥运金牌数要超历届李宗伟是最强对手
.....李永波给了记者一个为男单运动员减压的建议：“你们可以这样宣传，李宗伟夺冠实力最强，其次是陶 菲克。排第三的是鲍春来，林丹算是排在第四位吧。这样林丹的压力就会小很多。”从这句话不难看出，相比鲍春 来，李永波对于林丹夺冠更有信心。最后李永波还补充了一句：“我希望明年的男单决赛在林丹和鲍春来之间进行 ，这样我就没压力了。”
from http://simplybadminton.blogspot.com/2008/05/blog-post_30.html


This "Kenn"'s post is too good!!! absolutely right on the spot and funny at the same time.:cool:
LOL...:D:D:D 小李飛刀功力之深厚 , 已可殺敵於千里之外 LYB's "small Li flying dagger" is so powerful that LYB can kill anyone from thousand of miles away:D:D:D
Coach Li YongBo is the best ever!!!!!!!!!!!:p
Look out for the daggers, or you will be stabbed from any angle without even noticing it until it is too late.:p

[bananakid]

That's the beauty of MS in Olympic, anything is possible base on Olympic history, recent rivalry records, world ranking and of course the inside(most of the time baseless) scope from BFers :D When all dust is settle, it will clear that Choon Hann is the one who win the gold and Chong Wei silver and you can mark my words!!! :D

If that's the case, I will change my login name to "bananagirl"... unfortunately for everyone, nobody is going to enjoy that moment because it will never happen.;)

[KlasseE]

This "Kenn"'s post is too good!!! absolutely right on the spot and funny at the same time.:cool:
LOL...:D:D:D 小李飛刀功力之深厚 , 已可殺敵於千里之外 LYB's "small Li flying dagger" is so powerful that LYB can kill anyone from thousand of miles away:D:D:D
Coach Li YongBo is the best ever!!!!!!!!!!!:p
Look out for the daggers, or you will be stabbed from any angle without even noticing it until it is too late.:p

lyb is not a mighty mouse but he must be a skilled mind reader;)

[Loh]

lyb is not a mighty mouse but he must be a skilled mind reader;)

Li Mao will be waiting for him. :D

[limsy]

Li Mao will be waiting for him. :D

ya...fight with chinese kung fu maybe:eek:...then i can introduce those action to u all as i also practise wushu...:D

[Loh]

ya...fight with chinese kung fu maybe:eek:...then i can introduce those action to u all as i also practise wushu...:D

How about the stance of a yellow flying dragon breathing fire onto ...?:D

[X Ball]

How about the stance of a yellow flying dragon breathing fire onto ...?:D


No no, that is hardly the thing. It should be crouching tiger and fire spitting dragon ready to spring....:D

[george@chongwei]

No no, that is hardly the thing. It should be crouching tiger and fire spitting dragon ready to spring....:D
lcw will be walking in the wild and wet zoo in this OG08:p

[Loh]

No no, that is hardly the thing. It should be crouching tiger and fire spitting dragon ready to spring....:D

I thought it should be the Malaysian tiger versus the golden dragon, but only dragon spits fire, whereas the tiger can crouch and spring a surprise ... :confused:

[george@chongwei]

I thought it should be the Malaysian tiger versus the golden dragon, but only dragon spits fire, whereas the tiger can crouch and spring a surprise ... :confused:
no it should be the malaysia KL TOWER vs THE GREAT WALL OF CHINA:D:p

[Loh]

no it should be the malaysia KL TOWER vs THE GREAT WALL OF CHINA:D:p

Aiya, like tat where got fight lah?
KL TOWER sure win lah! :cool:

[limsy]

how to win oh???uncle loh???...

[george@chongwei]

how to win oh???uncle loh???...
yalor..:p
red dragon can fly 1 la:D:D

[SibugiChai]

I thought it should be the Malaysian tiger versus the golden dragon, but only dragon spits fire, whereas the tiger can crouch and spring a surprise ... :confused:

Tiger is a real animal

Dragon is myitcal! not real la

So Tiger should win la, Dragon not likely to show up :cool:

[olympic]

Aiya, like tat where got fight lah?
KL TOWER sure win lah! :cool:

KL Tower can't fight lah...Twin Towers certainly can fight...2 towers versus 1 wall...sure twin towers will win lah.:D:p

[Seasider]

[quote=ctjcad;879673]...at the present moment, LCW is definitely the top contender/challenger to LinDan for the Olympic Games' MS Gold. And if LCW can avoid meeting LD until the Final, and if history speaks for itself, the trend of the OG's MS Gold title coming from a non-winning Thomas Cup team may very well continue.:cool:[/quoteL:

LD and LCW WILL NOT meet until the final, since they are seeded #1 and #2. That will only happen if they beat all their opponents in earlier rounds. But I really hope that someone who is underdog from somewhere will beat LD first in earlier rounds :) :).

[Dato A]

LCW is not unbeatable also....

[victory]

[quote=ctjcad;879673]...at the present moment, LCW is definitely the top contender/challenger to LinDan for the Olympic Games' MS Gold. And if LCW can avoid meeting LD until the Final, and if history speaks for itself, the trend of the OG's MS Gold title coming from a non-winning Thomas Cup team may very well continue.:cool:[/quoteL:

LD and LCW WILL NOT meet until the final, since they are seeded #1 and #2. That will only happen if they beat all their opponents in earlier rounds. But I really hope that someone who is underdog from somewhere will beat LD first in earlier rounds :) :).

In tournament such as Oplympic every one faces very high pressure. This is
especially true for LD because he is top seed and facing the sky high expectation of the home crowd. Therefore LD lost to underdog in early rounds is highly possible. On top of that dark hourses like PSH, LHI, Sony, BP, PG are very strong. After all they all have defeated LD before. In addition, in 21 point system up sets are even more likely to happen. So I think your wish will come true!:);)

[huangkwokhau]

as I said before...everyone can beat each other...BAO almost lost to Nguyen...too bad Nguyen smashed some shots too wide....otherwise it would be upset...Nguyen, Bao,Susilo, BP, PSH,LHI even Sony can upset favorites..

[cooler]

[quote=Seasider;911982]

In tournament such as Oplympic every one faces very high pressure. This is
especially true for LD because he is top seed and facing the sky high expectation of the home crowd. Therefore LD lost to underdog in early rounds is highly possible. On top of that dark hourses like PSH, LHI, Sony, BP, PG are very strong. After all they all have defeated LD before. In addition, in 21 point system up sets are even more likely to happen. So I think your wish will come true!:);)maybe why LD is playing in the Thailand open, to gain some diverse experience playing against some unknown players, to keep him sharp, instead of narrowly focusing on ways how to beat LCW and PSH. Don't want to repeat 2004's mistake u know;)

[george@chongwei]

LCW is not unbeatable also....
and dato asbullah is not unbeatable also during his commentary in OG08:p:p:D
gill clark will beat him.;)

[Dato A]

LCW is definately now the focus to win that 1 million gold medal in Beijing.

But LD, in my humble opinion, had a slightly higher chance to grab that medal...