BPF Calls For Sanctions Against Li Yongbo

[Akim1]

PlayTheGame has Issued thid article:

Players take up the fight against match fixing in badminton

http://www.playthegame.org/News/Up_To_Date/Players_take_up_the_fight_against_match_fixing_in_ badminton_21070001.aspx

[cooler]

game fixing could be reduced greatly if BWF and IOC change their format as well.

1. bwf can improve the draw in tournaments by not concentrating chinese players in one side of the ladder

2. IOC remove the 3 players/country restriction. Let the top ranking players qualify and play.

If u implement a quota system, the system will response accordingly.
Yes, players have rights but if u look at things in a big picture, i doubt the outcome would change. EX. zhou mi (china) would still beat mia audina in 2004.

[huangkwokhau]

game fixing could be reduced greatly if BWF and IOC change their format as well.

1. bwf can improve the draw in tournaments by not concentrating chinese players in one side of the ladder

2. IOC remove the 3 players/country restriction. Let the top ranking players qualify and play.

If u implement a quota system, the system will response accordingly.
not bad idea...but in Tennis, same quota except the host will get 4 players...does not have much problem like in badminton...

If IOC does not set the quota then we can see only certain countries dominating in swimming, boxing, table tennis,track& field

[cooler]

If IOC does not set the quota then we can see only certain countries dominating in swimming, boxing, table tennis,track& fieldso why complaining china fixing games when IOC is fixing the whole olympic?

[huangkwokhau]

I think we should not focus on China only.
In the past, Korea did that, China did that, INA did that...like Lim Swie King was being asked to lose to Icuk Sugiarto, to show that not only Chinese Indonesian could win, also Indonesian native too...( sadly it happened)

[huangkwokhau]

so why complaining china fixing games when IOC is fixing the whole olympic?
who complaining about the china? I did not complain about it...:rolleyes:
actually if you have more number of players from same country..you have more chance to fix the match...so I do not think IOC fixing the whole system...

[cooler]

not bad idea...but in Tennis, same quota except the host will get 4 players...does not have much problem like in badminton...
in tennis, winning the US open, wimbledon, etc are much much more rewarding than winning in the olympic. Those top tennis players go the beijing just for fun.

[cooler]

who complaining about the china? I did not complain about it...:rolleyes:
actually if you have more number of same players from same country..you have more chance to fix the match...so I do not think IOC fixing the whole system...i don't think so. If chinese divers, badminton athletes are in the semi or final, china dont care which chinese win.
We all see LYB being absent when there a all chinese final in bwf tournaments

[huangkwokhau]

i don't think so. If chinese divers, badminton athletes are in the semi or final, china dont care which chinese win.
We all see LYB being absent when there a all chinese final in bwf tournaments
Being absent does not mean the result can not be fixed if LYB wants too...( example in AE as well as ABC where CJ won, also Icuk vs LSK, INA coach was not there but LSK being asked to lose)
I think quota like 2 players max will have less chance to fix the match for any country...and at same time to place them in different side of the group as you suggested , it will help ...

[chris-ccc]

Players take up the fight against match fixing in badminton

http://www.playthegame.org/News/Up_To_Date/Players_take_up_the_fight_against_match_fixing_in_ badminton_21070001.aspx


.
:D:D:D It all boils down to how we should consider this issue of "Match Fixing".

If we are to consider "Team's/Nation's rights", it is perfectly permissible.

But, if we are to consider "Individual's rights", it is totally inexcusable.
.

[cooler]

.
:D:D:D It all boils down to how we should consider this issue of "Match Fixing".

If we are to consider "Team's/Nation's rights", it is perfectly permissible.

But, if we are to consider "Individual's rights", it is totally inexcusable.
.although IOC promotes sportmanship, spirit and individual performance but in reality, it is a game where country compete with other countries. I have said many times, only in Opens where individual achievement is a better measure. However, due to the high profile of the OG, even the opens sometime get tainted due to the OG.

[chibe_K]

BOLD MOVE BY BPF !!

BOBBY MILROY is the kind of leader we need today to promote badminton and to solidify badminton's position in future Olympic games !!

We all as badminton lovers should have zero tolerance, I mean ZERO, towards match fixing or game fixing or whatever you want to call it, in any tournaments ...period.

[Oldhand]

Reproduced from the website: 'playthegame' (http://www.playthegame.org/News/Up_To_Date/Players_take_up_the_fight_against_match_fixing_in_ badminton_21070001.aspx) :)

Players take up the fight against match fixing in badminton

21 July 2008
by Maria Suurballe

Long-held suspicions were confirmed in late March this year, when Chinese badminton coach Li Yongbo admitted to fixing one of the women’s singles semi-finals at the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens. Thus far, the Badminton World Federation (BWF) has failed to get an explanation from China over the admission. The Badminton Players Federation (BPF) is keen for answers though, and calls for tough sanctions against the Chinese coach.

After the admission by Li Yongbo, the BWF began to set up an Ethics Commission to deal with similar incidents in the future, though its progress has disappointed the BPF.

“Not enough action has been taken,” says Bobby Milroy, President of Badminton Players Federation. “In such a case where Li Yongbo feels it appropriate to boast about match-fixing, the BWF should do whatever it takes to ensure his immediate dismissal.”

“My recommendation at the time was to ban Chinese players from all competitions, including the Olympics, until such time as Li Yongbo was fired,” continues Milroy.

How the BWF would react to such a proposal coming from its Ethics Commission is uncertain. The world governing body for badminton has been contacted for a response by Play the Game, though at the time of writing is yet to respond. However, given the popularity of badminton in China, it would be a bold move for the BWF to eliminate the Chinese team on the verge of the Beijing Olympics.

Players unhappy

Why Li Yongbo decided to go public with this admission remains unclear, though his admissions come as no surprise to many top badminton players.

Among them is Anna Rice, Canada’s top female singles player and world number 30, who has been outspoken in her criticism of the toleration of this form of match fixing in international badminton.

“Apparently Chinese coaches have publicly admitted fixing matches for years, and to the Chinese it is regarded to be an act of patriotism to make the best win”, says Rice to Play the Game.

According to Yongbo, the Chinese team has nothing to be ashamed of as China has a history of favouring certain players when two of them meet at international events. “It shows our patriotism and in fact I’m proud of it,” Yongbo told China Central Television’s sports channel.

Rice disagrees: “In Asia there seem to be widespread knowledge about the fixing of matches, apparently without this being a matter of major concern within the national federations.”

Empathy and concern

Fellow Canadian Martha Deacon, the former president of Badminton Canada, echoes her views.

“The public admission of match fixing has been of great concern to athletes worldwide. Great empathy and concern is expressed to athletes who have become direct victims of this. The players in most countries will not tolerate this unfair play,” says Deacon to Play the Game.

Yongbo’s admission centred on the semi-final at the Athens Olympics between Zhou Mi and Zhang Ning. After watching Zhang win the first game, the coaching staff decided that she would have a better chance at winning the final against a non-Chinese opponent rather than Zhou. “So we told Zhou Mi not to work too hard and let Zhang into the final,” Yongbo, the Chinese coach, told television reporters.

Zhang won the gold as planned over Mia Audina representing the Netherlands, and is expected to defend her Olympic title at the Beijing Games in August. After the tournament, Zhou quit the Chinese team and went to play for Hong Kong. She has now qualified to represent the territory at the Beijing Olympics.

The Players Federation takes this case very seriously: “The BPF will continue to push for harsher sanctions against anyone caught match fixing. It is also our intention to open an investigation into match fixing practices,” says Bobby Milroy to Play the Game.

Match fixing widespread

Apparently the 2004 Olympics case was not a one-off. “The issue of match fixing is not only a problem in the women's singles, it affects all five disciplines,” writes Rice on her personal blog http://www.annarice.org/.

At the All-England Super Series Men’s Singles final in March this year there were suspicions about the Chinese player and world number one in the men’s singles, Lin Dan’s defeat to teammate Chen Jin. And in April’s Asian Championship in Malaysia, Lin Dan again failed to play his best as he lost to Chen Jin in the semi-finals.

Experts suggest that Lin Dan threw the match in order to get Chen Jin into the final to ensure a ranking of fourth in the world, thereby guaranteeing qualification for the Olympics for Chen Jin and hereby secure the Chinese Team an extra player.

“It is very telling that many journalists at the 2008 All-England had their articles about the Men's Singles final already written the night before the match. The outcome was clearly pre-determined”, concludes Rice.

Absence of individualism

According to Dr. Huan Xiong from Irish Institute of Chinese Studies at University College Cork in Ireland, there are some basic explanations to this phenomenon, which may be embedded in the Chinese social system.

“For a long time, no individualism has existed in Chinese society. Everyone belongs to the state and has to obey to the nation. The interests of nation and the state always come first when social members make their decisions. This ideology is also reflected in sport. To guarantee the final success of the games, the team manager has the right to decide which player is going to play and win for next matches,” Huan Xiong tells Play the Game.

Athletes, who are selected as young kids, trained, and paid by the Chinese Government are pretty much like employees of the Government. “Their job is to win medals and serve the nation. Emotionally, the sports teams are their second homes and they have to listen to their coaches, managers, who play the roles like their parents” Huan Xiong continues.

However, Huan Xiong believes that this phenomenon in Chinese sport will change in the process of market-oriented transformation. Some of the athletes have become aware of their own individual rights and interests.

Beijing Olympics

But when Anna Rice takes to the court this summer in Beijing, it will not just be this kind of match fixing that will worry the Canadian and her fellow players.

Other circumstances cause concern for players, such as the amount of Chinese referees and line judges during the matches in Beijing, bringing into question the impartiality of the officiating at the Games. According to the IOC rules, a minimum of ten percent of the referees and line judges at the Olympic matches should be foreigners, and the Chinese organizers have kept close to that figure when the referee team was set.

The fear of unfair verdicts is backed up by Danish national badminton coach, Steen Pedersen, who worries that the passion for badminton in China will mean that match officials will feel compelled to ensure Chinese victories. “Fair play is not on top of their list and that will without doubt influence on the verdicts during the Games,” says Pedersen to Play the Game.

Danish players have often played in China and they are used to be cheated by the Chinese referees and line judges, believes the Danish coach. “That’s the conditions we have to play under; the important thing is to be well prepared when you meet these types of challenges and to be able to control your emotions, even if you get a clearly unfair verdict,” Pedersen concludes.

To counteract these biases, Pedersen advocates for new rules regarding referees and line judges, especially at big events such as the Olympics in order to obtain more neutral verdicts during the matches and to secure that the Olympic Games first and foremost is a matter of fair play and sportsmanship.

More transparency in badminton

However, in spite of the wrangling and tension within the Badminton World Federation and the recent admissions of fixed matches, Pedersen is optimistic regarding the future: “BWF is moving in a positive direction, especially after the resignation of Punch Gunalan, the former vice president of BWF. Now we need to agree on some rules and penalties pointing forward to avoid match fixing.”

Nonetheless, Rice an ambassador for the pressure group “Right to Play”, believes it is important to her to get the problems in international badminton out in the open, also in western countries where badminton is not such a big sport as it is in Asia: “I take the issue of match fixing in our sport very seriously. To me it is as much a form of cheating as is doping. Not only does it cast a light of illegitimacy on our entire sport (and everyone involved with it), it also takes away the right of players to pursue their own destiny.”

Rice suggests a special committee set up within the IOC to investigate the incidents and to punish the teams. “It is important to create a body to ensure, protect and promote the ethical values of our sport,” she concludes.

A similar proposal was put forward by Play the Game in 2006, for a global coalition against corruption in sport, similar to the World Anti-Doping Agency.

“We have seen and documented so many instances of corruption, democratic deficiencies and sporting swindles, which can neither be solved by sports organisations' own ethical committees – which in reality function as bottles for delicate questions – nor by the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) or the International Olympic Committee. There are too many opportunities for corruption and cheating in international sport, and there is quite simply a need for one authority, which can in a credible way devise a rulebook that ensures sports leaders can be sentenced with similar penalties to the ones they impose on the athletes,” believes Jens Sejer Andersen, Director of Play the Game.

The idea of an anti-corruption agency appeals to the BPF: “I would really like to be involved with it in some capacity,” Milroy tells Play the Game.

According to Martha Deacon, the athletes have to be united and step up to the plate to say this is unacceptable to ensure the integrity of badminton and for unethical practices to be challenged and stopped. “Bobby Milroy, the BWF Player Representative will be in China to continue to advocate for the game and what is right and fair. He needs the support of nations, of policy makers of NOC as he tries to move forward.”

“There has to be some very tough measures and sanctions put into place and monitored for the future,” says Deacon. “Everyone involved in badminton must take off their own ‘hats’ and find a way to work together and find common ground for the future of the sport”.

[Oldhand]

“Not enough action has been taken,” says Bobby Milroy, President of Badminton Players Federation. “In such a case where Li Yongbo feels it appropriate to boast about match-fixing, the BWF should do whatever it takes to ensure his immediate dismissal.”

“My recommendation at the time was to ban Chinese players from all competitions, including the Olympics, until such time as Li Yongbo was fired,” continues Milroy.

Wow, that's pretty drastic and illogical.
Why should players be penalised for what coaches do?

Imagine applying such logic to, say, European football :rolleyes:
If Li Yongbo needs to be taken to task, take him and him alone to task.


Anna Rice: “In Asia there seem to be widespread knowledge about the fixing of matches, apparently without this being a matter of major concern within the national federations.”

Such generalisations could be hugely misplaced.
If Rice means 'China', it doesn't help to say 'Asia' ;)


Zhang won the gold as planned over Mia Audina representing the Netherlands, and is expected to defend her Olympic title at the Beijing Games in August. After the tournament, Zhou [Mi] quit the Chinese team and went to play for Hong Kong. She has now qualified to represent the territory at the Beijing Olympics.

Really?
Has Zhou Mi been allowed in? :confused:


However, in spite of the wrangling and tension within the Badminton World Federation and the recent admissions of fixed matches, Pedersen is optimistic regarding the future: “BWF is moving in a positive direction, especially after the resignation of Punch Gunalan, the former vice president of BWF. Now we need to agree on some rules and penalties pointing forward to avoid match fixing.”

Obviously, Punch Gunalan was not the most popular man around :D

[Dreamzz]

i'm not sure how much of an impact this will have on BWF. they've known about this issue for years, and no one has been able to do anything about it as yet.

[drifit]

in tennis, winning the US open, wimbledon, etc are much much more rewarding than winning in the olympic. Those top tennis players go the beijing just for fun.
dont be like that.
at least, they can get the limited gold or silver or bronze medal.........:D:D:D
as for $$ reward, not really in mind for them.

[Akim1]

Being absent does not mean the result can not be fixed if LYB wants too...( example in AE as well as ABC where CJ won, also Icuk vs LSK, INA coach was not there but LSK being asked to lose)
I think quota like 2 players max will have less chance to fix the match for any country...and at same time to place them in different side of the group as you suggested , it will help ...

The problem with match fixing is not just an olympic issue. I.e. this years All England final where CJ won, and probably cost the bookmakers a fortune. It gives the sport a bad image, and it is difficult to get spectators to pay good money to see a fixed match let alone sponsors or broadcasters to invest funds in the sport.
China now seem to have changed the stategy, so when its possible they just withdraw the player/pair they don't want to win. I.e. Wang Yihan against Lu Lan in All England 2008.

One thing that could be part of the solution is the BWF to pay the price money directly to the players instead of the national association. Its not perfect but much better than the way things are at the moment.

[bananakid]

Reproduced from the website: 'playthegame' (http://www.playthegame.org/News/Up_To_Date/Players_take_up_the_fight_against_match_fixing_in_ badminton_21070001.aspx) :)

Players take up the fight against match fixing in badminton


In reply to this article... all I want to say is that since I have lived in Canada for so long, I can honestly tell everyone that some Canadians are having too much free time, since they don't have to worry much about basic living needs, they go out there and cause trouble. Me, being one of the many... hehehe...

By the way, Milroy and Rice.. match fixing has little to no impact to both of you at all, since most of the time, the two of you don't even make it to the main draw anyways. Instead of wasting time protesting this and that like so many people do, why don't the two of you go and train harder instead.:mad: Come back and start your protest once you can actually be involved with the after effects of match fixing.

[cooler]

In reply to this article... all I want to say is that since I have lived in Canada for so long, I can honestly tell everyone that some Canadians are having too much free time, since they don't have to worry much about basic living needs, they go out there and cause trouble. Me, being one of the many... hehehe...

By the way, Milroy and Rice.. match fixing has little to no impact to both of you at all, since most of the time, the two of you don't even make it to the main draw anyways. Instead of wasting time protesting this and that like so many people do, why don't the two of you go and train harder instead.:mad: Come back and start your protest once you can actually be involved with the after effects of match fixing.u beat me to the post;)
I kinda agreed. If a team or teams wanted to push this cause, it should be the team from denmark, MAL and INA. I doubt any match fixing (if any) would affect canadian results.

[cooler]

The problem with match fixing is not just an olympic issue. I.e. this years All England final where CJ won, and probably cost the bookmakers a fortune. It gives the sport a bad image, and it is difficult to get spectators to pay good money to see a fixed match let alone sponsors or broadcasters to invest funds in the sport.
China now seem to have changed the stategy, so when its possible they just withdraw the player/pair they don't want to win. I.e. Wang Yihan against Lu Lan in All England 2008.

One thing that could be part of the solution is the BWF to pay the price money directly to the players instead of the national association. Its not perfect but much better than the way things are at the moment.
this year AE is different, results are tied to olympic seeding. LYB could have asked LD to stay home. How's this is gonna help AE selling tickets? If bookies lose money, well, there aren't smart cookies;):p If only IOC allow ALL players who can qualify to play, u won't see this fixing at the AE. It is not fair to have chen yu, wang lin and zhu lin shut out from the OG when u and i know they are better than players from some countries who have qualified.

[bananakid]

u beat me to the post;)
I kinda agreed. If a team or teams wanted to push this cause, it should be the team from denmark, MAL and INA. I doubt any match fixing (if any) would affect canadian results.

To me, it is just the Canadian way of "If I can't make noises at where it counts(badminton court in this case), then I will make noises at where I will be heard(website, claiming this and that...)

They really need to understand this simple concept "Life isn't fair"... "Get good or get lost".:rolleyes:

[huangkwokhau]

this year AE is different, results are tied to olympic seeding. LYB could have asked LD to stay home. How's this is gonna help AE selling tickets? If bookies lose money, well, there aren't smart cookies;):p If only IOC allow ALL players who can qualify to play, u won't see this fixing at the AE. It is not fair to have chen yu, wang lin and zhu lin shut out from the OG when u and i know they are better than players from some countries who have qualified.
If Swimming or track and field can accept it like max 2, why Badminton cant accept it? to me, more players from same country can fix the match...
Can you imagine if Kenya or Ethopian can have more than 2 runner in 10K or maraton, they can easily have 10 runners each , they can gang up and lets say 6 or 7 of them trip their opponents or make them fall..

Is that fair for Australia or USA whose are very strong in swimming but they can field 2 also...?I do not see many asian swimmers can qualify if we let all the best qualify...we may not have many asians runners too in track /field or Boxing as well.
IOC has set the rule...they do not come up the rule like overnite...also this is not 2nd or 3rd Olympic...
The olympic actually to promote the unity or peace...

like in Tennis, the host can have 4 but the rest can have 3 max...we do not see many match fixing in tennis...for asian players, winning medals in tennis are not for fun at all...it is an honour...
Even Federer or William sisters are competing for honour...if it is about the money, they can skip the event...

[cooler]

like in Tennis, the host can have 4 but the rest can have 3 max...we do not see many match fixing in tennis...for asian players, winning medals in tennis are not for fun at all...it is an honour...
Even Federer or William sisters are competing for honour...if it is about the money, they can skip the event...

yes, they did go but they didn't seem tried very hard at 2000 athen. Serena williams didn't play in 2000 OG.

MS
Gold Nicolás Massú Chile (CHI)
Silver Mardy Fish United States (USA)
Bronze Fernando González Chile (CHI)

WS
Gold Justine Henin Belgium (BEL)
Silver Amélie Mauresmo France (FRA)
Bronze Alicia Molik Australia (AUS)

Neither federer or venus had made it to the QF.
Surely they can't be that bad in 2004

[bad_fanatic]

I'm pretty sure match fixing is not an unusual event in the world of professional badminton. It's just that this is the first time ever that a coach has came open with it.

I think that there's more bitterness towards the Chinese because recently, they've been dominating the world of badminton.


Just think of the punishment that Bob Milroy brought up. Banning the whole Chinese team from any sort of competition until Li Yong Bo is Fired. Talk about extreme punishment.

[pjswift]

yes, they did go but they didn't seem tried very hard at 2000 athen. Serena williams didn't play in 2000 OG.

MS
Gold Nicolás Massú Chile (CHI)
Silver Mardy Fish United States (USA)
Bronze Fernando González Chile (CHI)

WS
Gold Justine Henin Belgium (BEL)
Silver Amélie Mauresmo France (FRA)
Bronze Alicia Molik Australia (AUS)

Neither federer or venus had made it to the QF.
Surely they can't be that bad in 2004
Federer or Venus type need the glamour centre court type of crowd to help bring out their best.

[sonnymak]

What Liem was ask to throw the game against Icuk? But did he? Not from the scoreline he didnt. I think this Chinese descent vs "Native" perception on Indonesia and Malaysia Badminton got to stop every time a "Native" beat a "Chinese Descend" or the other way round. Icuk and Liem were great players and Liem was not invincible. Wonder did the PBSI asked LIem to lose to Misbun in SEA Games 1981 just to show that Malays can win too?

[cooler]

Federer or Venus type need the glamour centre court type of crowd to help bring out their best.i think u had it confused with KKK

[Akim1]

In reply to this article... all I want to say is that since I have lived in Canada for so long, I can honestly tell everyone that some Canadians are having too much free time, since they don't have to worry much about basic living needs, they go out there and cause trouble. Me, being one of the many... hehehe...

By the way, Milroy and Rice.. match fixing has little to no impact to both of you at all, since most of the time, the two of you don't even make it to the main draw anyways. Instead of wasting time protesting this and that like so many people do, why don't the two of you go and train harder instead.:mad: Come back and start your protest once you can actually be involved with the after effects of match fixing.

I'm sorry bananakid, but this is the most ridiculous argument I've seen. That means you shouldn't complaint or worry about burglars until you've been robbed yourself. That's just crazy!!

[huangkwokhau]

u beat me to the post;)
I kinda agreed. If a team or teams wanted to push this cause, it should be the team from denmark, MAL and INA. I doubt any match fixing (if any) would affect canadian results.
I think Bobby Milroy said that as a capacity of President of Players.....
and Anna Rice is the girl friend of Bobby at the same time...;)

[LazyBuddy]

In reply to this article... all I want to say is that since I have lived in Canada for so long, I can honestly tell everyone that some Canadians are having too much free time, since they don't have to worry much about basic living needs, they go out there and cause trouble. Me, being one of the many... hehehe...

By the way, Milroy and Rice.. match fixing has little to no impact to both of you at all, since most of the time, the two of you don't even make it to the main draw anyways. Instead of wasting time protesting this and that like so many people do, why don't the two of you go and train harder instead.:mad: Come back and start your protest once you can actually be involved with the after effects of match fixing.

Even though the statement is harsh, but I have to agree.

The OG spirit is to let the best compete. Now, with the "limit entries" (not just badminton), many better players are shut out of the door, while many less qualified players had the chance to participate. Before we blaming any "match fixing", let's ask how XXF and XXZ feels in 2004, and how ZL, WYH, WL, CY, CH feels this year. You tell me the WC champions, runner ups, open winners can't even play, while some other rank 70-100 players take a free ride each time around? :rolleyes:

Yeah, LYB admit to fix to boost his chance to capture the gold for CHN. However, without the limited entries per nationa, CHN might send 20 ladies in the main draw to begin with. Non-CHN players like CM, Mia will need very good luck to even fight through 2 rounds, as now they are facing Open, AE or even WC champions in earlier rounds, but not some rank 100+ players instead.

In a harsh way, Rice and Milroy should be thankful that they are not born in CHN. Otherwise, I really wonder if they can even make the national team to begin with or not. Well, sure, they don't get involved in any "fixing". Not because they don't want, because they are not good enough to be even considered... :mad:

[LazyBuddy]

I'm sorry bananakid, but this is the most ridiculous argument I've seen. That means you shouldn't complaint or worry about burglars until you've been robbed yourself. That's just crazy!!

Maybe his statement is harsh, but so do I feel the same when I read the report.

Sure, you can complain a big and rich city has all the crimes, while you label your own place to be safe. Sure, if your town only has your own family, and the overall living standard is already way below average, I wonder if the bad guys even want to consider. :cool:

It's not a matter of the western athelete have more honor than the CHN ones. It's a matter of they are NOT EVEN GOOD ENOUGH to be considered as "target" yet.

Put this way, CHN has to think hard to beat CM, because she's good. CHN will never has to worry about who to send if they have to face Anna Rice, mostly. Same as MS, they might do something, if they have to face LCW, or TH. However, Millroy... well, maybe a benche from a state team can do it... sorry... :cool:

Therefore, if all the non-CHN players are as good as LCW or CM, CHN will have no choice but fight every battle. Simply because the "fixing" will not guarantee any good result. But now the problem is, you can face LCW or CM, but the other way, you have Rice or Millory... I think anyone will think twice, if they have a choice, :D

[huangkwokhau]

Even though the statement is harsh, but I have to agree.

The OG spirit is to let the best compete. Now, with the "limit entries" (not just badminton), many better players are shut out of the door, while many less qualified players had the chance to participate. Before we blaming any "match fixing", let's ask how XXF and XXZ feels in 2004, and how ZL, WYH, WL, CY, CH feels this year. You tell me the WC champions, runner ups, open winners can't even play, while some other rank 70-100 players take a free ride each time around? :rolleyes:

Yeah, LYB admit to fix to boost his chance to capture the gold for CHN. However, without the limited entries per nationa, CHN might send 20 ladies in the main draw to begin with. Non-CHN players like CM, Mia will need very good luck to even fight through 2 rounds, as now they are facing Open, AE or even WC champions in earlier rounds, but not some rank 100+ players instead.

In a harsh way, Rice and Milroy should be thankful that they are not born in CHN. Otherwise, I really wonder if they can even make the national team to begin with or not. Well, sure, they don't get involved in any "fixing". Not because they don't want, because they are not good enough to be even considered... :mad:

Please consider also China's Table Tennis....they did match fixing in the past but now no more.
They can accept IOC's rule as we know China is the strongest team ever...even with 2 participants, China is still able to sweep all titles...
If China's Table Tennis can do it...why China's badminton can not?

Not only Badminton, Tyson Gay also could not compete in 200 M but he did not complain...they know the rule...

So why we are whining about it as the rule is very clear from beginning..
Kenya and Ethiopians are not complaining either as they have tons of runners to compete....

China's or Romanians/USA's gymnast also know the rule and they accept it...
The more number from same country can do match fixing easily..lets say that China has 20 ladies in the draw..dont you think it will be easier for LYB to fix the match...or Kenya/Ethiopia with 20 runners each...they can assign some of them to make their opponents fall.

IOC did not make the rule by itself...all nations including China agree with this rule...so stop complaining about it...

[kwun]

this goes back to the same old discussion.

is the Olympics an individual event, or a team/country event?

from surface, the Olympics is an individual event, each player are playing for their own glory. however, the moment the Olympic starts to impose country entry limit on each event, and the fact that countries are competing on the medal count, the whole perspective has been changed.

from that perspective, when you see that the Olympic imposing a quota on a country basis, and that countries are vying for a overall medal ranking, then it is not difficult to see why it is in reality a team event. and with that perspective, we can understand see why it is possible to justify a little match fixing.

"fixing" while sounds quite bad in the surface, is often seen as the norm in other sports. cycling is the best example that i usually give. in event like the Tour de France, individual cyclists in a team help each other out to help their team leader to get on the podium. often sacrificing their own ranking in the overall category. this practice is not only not criticized, but is seen to be the proper strategy to win a bicycle race. a bicycle race is then a team event in the disguise of an individual event.

we have to then think whether the structure and mandates of the Olympics has made it into a team event.

[kwun]

oh, and about Milroy. i think he has a right to say and complain about it, as everyone is entitled to their opinions. readers do need to read and digest what others have to say and make their own choice whether they find the opinions to have any grounds or not.

[LazyBuddy]

Please consider also China's Table Tennis....they did match fixing in the past but now no more.
They can accept IOC's rule as we know China is the strongest team ever...even with 2 participants, China is still able to sweep all titles...
If China's Table Tennis can do it...why China's badminton can not?

Not only Badminton, Tyson Gay also could not compete in 200 M but he did not complain...they know the rule...

So why we are whining about it as the rule is very clear from beginning..
Kenya and Ethiopians are not complaining either as they have tons of runners to compete....

China's or Romanians/USA's gymnast also know the rule and they accept it...


So, I am whinning about "not let the best compete", while others who taking a free ride say "in theory, I lost my gold medal", even if they are NOT suppose to compete to begin with? :eek: Ok, in my post, I already said "limited entry" do NOT only refer badminton, but many other sports.

Once a bias situation occurs, someone decides to "shut up", someone decides to "stand up and defend". So, what's the cause of the chaos? The victim should suck his own blood, because the other victim did so? :rolleyes:

[cooler]

well, at least LYB has the balls to admit his alleged action. It goes to show that the OG is very political, athletes are just pawns of the big boy's game. Game fixing is just one of many shady side of the olympic sports but a miniscule one when compared to steroid, doping, bribes for voting, pampering of delegations, contract rigging, etc.. The BPF has a good cause but they are beating on the wrong door.

[LazyBuddy]

oh, and about Milroy. i think he has a right to say and complain about it, as everyone is entitled to their opinions. readers do need to read and digest what others have to say and make their own choice whether they find the opinions to have any grounds or not.

Everyone has the right to speak up. However, whenever LYB, CHN comes up, ppl use whoever the quote is as the golden bible to bring up the topic.

If Milroy's word is treated as gold, why no one listen to what XXZ, XXF, ZL, CY, CH, etc? Don't they capture even more achievement than Milroy? Therefore, don't their word have a bit even more weight? :rolleyes:

[huangkwokhau]

So, I am whinning about "not let the best compete", while others who taking a free ride say "in theory, I lost my gold medal", even if they are NOT suppose to compete to begin with? :eek: Ok, in my post, I already said "limited entry" do NOT only refer badminton, but many other sports.

Once a bias situation occurs, someone decides to "shut up", someone decides to "stand up and defend". So, what's the cause of the chaos? The victim should suck his own blood, because the other victim did so? :rolleyes:
We have to know the purpose of Olympics....unfortunately some of the best cant compete due to limited entry....so some of them are moving to other countries in order to compete like many Table Tennis players..in Badminton, we can see Pi Hong Yan/Xu Huai Wen for example...some Kenyas move to Middle east and compete under their adopted countries....

It wont be fun to see all US or Australian qualify in all swimming events or Cubans in boxing, romanians in rowing....pls consider others too...

[LazyBuddy]

well, at least LYB has the balls to admit his alleged action. It goes to show that the OG is very political, athletes are just pawns of the big boy's game. Game fixing is just one of many shady side of the olympic sports but a miniscule one when compared to steroid, doping, bribes for voting, pampering of delegations, contract rigging, etc.. The BPF has a good cause but they are beating on the wrong door.


The OG is controlled by the rich and powerful westerns.

Once CHN doing well in table tennis, let's fix the rules. Once CHN doing well in badminton, let's change here and there.

How about I propose to change the basketball game to be only 3 point shooting and free throws? I guess CHN or JP will win that. How about I propose to change track and field into only 1 event? Even there are 100, 200, 400, 800, etc they are all running???? :p

Anyway, I am tired...

[cooler]

Please consider also China's Table Tennis....they did match fixing in the past but now no more.
They can accept IOC's rule as we know China is the strongest team ever...even with 2 participants, China is still able to sweep all titles...
If China's Table Tennis can do it...why China's badminton can not?

Not only Badminton, Tyson Gay also could not compete in 200 M but he did not complain...they know the rule...

i think china badminton would eventually cut out game fixing like table tennis. Why else LYB make that public disclosure? If he intend to continue this fixing thing, i don't see why LYB bother disclosing what he did in 2004. Just IMO of course.

[cooler]

The OG is controlled by the rich and powerful westerns.

Once CHN doing well in table tennis, let's fix the rules. Once CHN doing well in badminton, let's change here and there.

How about I propose to change the basketball game to be only 3 point shooting and free throws? I guess CHN or JP will win that. How about I propose to change track and field into only 1 event? Even there are 100, 200, 400, 800, etc they are all running???? :p

Anyway, I am tired...
yes, i see tracks and water rowing things:D (canoe, kayak, scull, etc) have too many events

[LazyBuddy]

We have to know the purpose of Olympics....unfortunately some of the best cant compete due to limited entry....so some of them are moving to other countries in order to compete like many Table Tennis players..in Badminton, we can see Pi Hong Yan/Xu Huai Wen for example...some Kenyas move to Middle east and compete under their adopted countries....

It wont be fun to see all US or Australian qualify in all swimming events or Cubans in boxing, romanians in rowing....pls consider others too...


I definitely agree, and I feel sorry for them too. However, again, if 1 victim decides to suck his own blood, do you want to blame the other want to go against the situation? :rolleyes:

The "limited entry" is the written rule, CHN follows even if it does not like it. What ever "match fixing" is not written, and have no proof. Therefore, on-paper, CHN is still perfect qualified. ;)

[huangkwokhau]

The OG is controlled by the rich and powerful westerns.

Once CHN doing well in table tennis, let's fix the rules. Once CHN doing well in badminton, let's change here and there.

How about I propose to change the basketball game to be only 3 point shooting and free throws? I guess CHN or JP will win that. How about I propose to change track and field into only 1 event? Even there are 100, 200, 400, 800, etc they are all running???? :p

Anyway, I am tired...

I do not think we should say that other countries change the rule for those sports dominated by China...Diving or Gymnastic, mostly dominated by Chinese in decades, they have not changed the rule yet....

Like Judo..? should say the same thing that they can change the rule because it is dominated by Japanese?. even Tae Kwondo, not dominated by Koreans in the past.

[huangkwokhau]

I definitely agree, and I feel sorry for them too. However, again, if 1 victim decides to suck his own blood, do you want to blame the other want to go against the situation? :rolleyes:

The "limited entry" is the written rule, CHN follows even if it does not like it. What ever "match fixing" is not written, and have no proof. Therefore, on-paper, CHN is still perfect qualified. ;)
Not only China has to follow...others too....many victims from US Track and field also..I guess we have to accept it ....like Bananakid says" Life is not fair"...thats unfortunately...:(:(

[LazyBuddy]

I do not think we should say that other countries change the rule for those sports dominated by China...Diving or Gymnastic, mostly dominated by Chinese in decades, they have not changed the rule yet....

Like Judo..? should say the same thing that they can change the rule because it is dominated by Japanese?. even Tae Kwondo, not dominated by Koreans in the past.

I don't know every sport, therefoer I can't say.

However, I do follow Gymnastics quite a bit, and I can say there are significant changes (scoring system) over the years, and OG introduced "age limit" (16 as min?) to against the power house, as we know the younger and smaller bodies have advantage in gymnastics.

I forgot if that's 96 OG or 1 of the WS, CHN women gymnastics teams were punished (deduct of 0.5 points) in team events, due to "dressing code" violation... Great, athletes' years of hard work get put away, due to their outfit... :rolleyes::cool:

[Oldhand]

In reply to this article... all I want to say is that since I have lived in Canada for so long, I can honestly tell everyone that some Canadians are having too much free time, since they don't have to worry much about basic living needs, they go out there and cause trouble. Me, being one of the many... hehehe...

By the way, Milroy and Rice.. match fixing has little to no impact to both of you at all, since most of the time, the two of you don't even make it to the main draw anyways. Instead of wasting time protesting this and that like so many people do, why don't the two of you go and train harder instead.:mad: Come back and start your protest once you can actually be involved with the after effects of match fixing.
I'm afraid I can't agree with bananakid on this.

What's important is the merit of the issue... rather than the merit of the person(s) drawing attention to it. (If not, none of us would ever be able to protest against hegemony by, say, a software giant or a market manipulator.)

It shouldn't matter who raises it if the issue is of concern to every sporting player and fan.

For what it embodies, it could be Bobby Milroy or Taufik Hidayat raising a point. At stake is whether the issue is legitimate and deserving of official attention.

I'd say: 'better some voice than no voice at all' :)

[huangkwokhau]

I definitely agree, and I feel sorry for them too. However, again, if 1 victim decides to suck his own blood, do you want to blame the other want to go against the situation? :rolleyes:

The "limited entry" is the written rule, CHN follows even if it does not like it. What ever "match fixing" is not written, and have no proof. Therefore, on-paper, CHN is still perfect qualified. ;)
Thats why BWF could not do anything yet..........;) tough to prove it

[huangkwokhau]

I don't know every sport, therefoer I can't say.

However, I do follow Gymnastics quite a bit, and I can say there are significant changes (scoring system) over the years, and OG introduced "age limit" (16 as min?) to against the power house, as we know the younger and smaller bodies have advantage in gymnastics.

I forgot if that's 96 OG or 1 of the WS, CHN women gymnastics teams were punished (deduct of 0.5 points) in team events, due to "dressing code" violation... Great, athletes' years of hard work get put away, due to their outfit... :rolleyes::cool:
As long as they are aware about the dressing code..thats okay.
Like Wimbledon as well..you will be disqualified if you do not wear WHITE dominant....we should not whine or think it is cheating if the rules are written.....
Golf is even worse...see how many players disqualified because they forgot small things...like to record or write...or recently Michele Wie disqualified for small thing....

[huangkwokhau]

Everyone has the right to speak up. However, whenever LYB, CHN comes up, ppl use whoever the quote is as the golden bible to bring up the topic.

If Milroy's word is treated as gold, why no one listen to what XXZ, XXF, ZL, CY, CH, etc? Don't they capture even more achievement than Milroy? Therefore, don't their word have a bit even more weight? :rolleyes:
It is sad that Chinese players are not allowed to say anything in the media...even Chen Hong cant say to media about WO....he just said to media"....well..you guys know..". so who is to blame?
Before we can ask them to speak up...China badminton has to let this " freedom" to its players..

[Oldhand]

[...]or recently Michele Wie disqualified for small thing....
That was hardly a small thing!

So far, Michelle Wie has twice earned disqualifications - first in 2005 (http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2193534) and, now, last Saturday (http://golf.about.com/b/2008/07/19/michelle-wie-disqualified-at-lpga-state-farm-classic.htm).

How can a 'pro' forget or not know the rules (http://www.lpga.com/content_1.aspx?pid=16530&mid=1)?
Maybe she should be classed as 'amateur' :p

[kwun]

It is sad that Chinese players are not allowed to say anything in the media...even Chen Hong cant say to media about WO....he just said to media"....well..you guys know..". so who is to blame?
Before we can ask them to speak up...China badminton has to let this " freedom" to its players..

if players from other countries starts fixing match, i will be willing to bet they will say something about it... ;)

[huangkwokhau]

That was hardly a small thing!

So far, Michelle Wie has twice earned disqualifications - first in 2005 (http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2193534) and, now, last Saturday (http://golf.about.com/b/2008/07/19/michelle-wie-disqualified-at-lpga-state-farm-classic.htm).

How can a 'pro' forget or not know the rules (http://www.lpga.com/content_1.aspx?pid=16530&mid=1)?
Maybe she should be classed as 'amateur' :p
:D:D...well..yes...I guess same thing as Gymnast forgot the dressing code...:D

[huangkwokhau]

BPF has a good intention ...I have to say that many players complain that no one ( tournament organizers) pay attention to the players' need...
Small thing like Player's lounge...it is harly anything for them to relax..even some of them are empty room or only water and fruit available...so recently we tried to upgrade Player's lounge during INA Open....after listening what they want...we installed computer for them, noodles, cookies, peanut, candies and many type of cakes, coffee/tea and soft drink...nice couch to relax...
So far BWF has not standarized the components of Super Series...

[chris-ccc]

.
From anything that is considered as "BAD", something "GOOD" will come out of it.

Many of us know what LYB have done to many CHN players... that is, LYB is telling them: We do things not for our individual's glory, but for our nation's glory. And to some individual CHN players who didn't like it, they have immigrated to other nations.

Let it be known: LYB is planning for China to be competing as a team, and not to be competing as individual players.

I, as an individual, who is always trying my best to do what I can achieve, will not forgive LYB if he tells me to lose a match on purpose.

This is because I would have been prevented from doing my best.

:):):)
.

[demolidor]

So, I am whinning about "not let the best compete", while others who taking a free ride say "in theory, I lost my gold medal", even if they are NOT suppose to compete to begin with? :eek: Ok, in my post, I already said "limited entry" do NOT only refer badminton, but many other sports.

:D You can say bye bye to badminton as an Olympic sport without limited entry. And no Olympic sport means no funding in a whole lot of countries which in turn will lead badminton even further away from Olympic status (unless money becomes available otherwise like in tennis).

I guess if you want to cut down the number of disciplines in athletics you could make it decathlon + heptathlon and marathon only :cool:;)

Oh yeah bananakid needs some more bananas ... what's the point of a Player's Federation if the president can't voice any complaints :p?

[ctjcad]

..(trying to write with my brain half-toast & in the middle of the afternoon)..:p
..and yes, this has been brought up and discussed before (like kwun mentioned)..

So, i noticed there have been quite a few interesting segways, point of views/opinions on this issue. kwun's post, in which he inferred to Le Tour le France, is a nice little segway to this whole badminton "match-fixing" scenario; it's a sport with an individual award(s), but technically it's a team event.
**I can also bring out NASCAR (American car racing sport) as another example. Basically there are teams, within NASCAR, which have numerous drivers all driving for several owners. Sometimes those drivers, within a team, will help each other so one of them can win the race.
I also remember a few yrs ago, in an F1 racing event, a driver (forgot who and from what team) had to lose in order for his partner to finish on top.

For me, personally, i see badminton, in general, as an individual sport. But since it is often being showcased in several team events (e.g. TC & UC, Sudirman Cup, Asian & Commonwealth Games), it will be hard to filter or separate the "team" concept away from badminton; eventhough it's being played often times with individual tourneys.
For me, if i were on the CHN team, i would have probably known what the consequences will be if i'm playing under LYB. Would i, personally, prefer to play under such order? Of course not. But since knowing the concept that playing under LYB will entail very good consequences of not performing on the biggest sporting stage, such as the Olympics, then i would have to make my own decision on whether to stay or leave...And that's the decision which the ex or former CHN nationals did..

Is it good for the sport? Probably not. Is it ethically correct? Most likely not.
Can anyone do something about this whole "match fixing" issue? It will be hard because badminton is still considered a sport which has a "nationalistic" fervor. And as long as BWF doesn't constitute a ruling to disallow such actions, it will be hard to dispel; and also despite LYB's latest revelation.

..okay, i'm done with my mid-afternoon ramble.. :p

[LazyBuddy]

It is sad that Chinese players are not allowed to say anything in the media...even Chen Hong cant say to media about WO....he just said to media"....well..you guys know..". so who is to blame?
Before we can ask them to speak up...China badminton has to let this " freedom" to its players..


It's also very sad the non-CHN players have too much time to deal with the media, which gives even less time to train themselves. They can speak all they want to, but the racket will prove who's the champion.

If CHN players don't talk, but can be champ, maybe other nations should also follow??? :p

[LazyBuddy]

Oh yeah bananakid needs some more bananas ... what's the point of a Player's Federation if the president can't voice any complaints :p?

If a badminton federation's president's main job is to "voice complaints" rather than help the players to develop, then there's nothing I can say.

His job is to dig the root of the problem from his own end, but not blaming others. If he takes the effort of finger pointing into player development, maybe CAN can produce some better players, to at least qualify to be considered to "fixing". :D

[demolidor]

Yes we should throw them all in jail for speaking their mind :cool:

Why would the player federation help develop players? It's there to protect the players interests not just develop their skills, just like the NHLPA or other players associations

Well I guess 3 is higher on the list than 5 :D

Principles of the BPF

1. To be Proactive towards our goals
2. To assume responsibility over our careers and livelihood
3. To act in the best interests of the sport of Badminton
4. To contribute to the lives and careers of Badminton Players
5. To develop the Badminton at all levels
6. To fight on behalf of the athletes
7. To support like-principled organizations

[cooler]

BPF has a good intention ...I have to say that many players complain that no one ( tournament organizers) pay attention to the players' need...
Small thing like Player's lounge...it is harly anything for them to relax..even some of them are empty room or only water and fruit available...so recently we tried to upgrade Player's lounge during INA Open....after listening what they want...we installed computer for them, noodles, cookies, peanut, candies and many type of cakes, coffee/tea and soft drink...nice couch to relax...
So far BWF has not standarized the components of Super Series...

it seem bwf had only approved certain feather shuttlecocks. Other than that, anything goes:p We need a PPF, Plastic Players Federation:D Their voice has been muted for too long:p

[LazyBuddy]

:D You can say bye bye to badminton as an Olympic sport without limited entry.


Let me ask you, if non-CHN players can't perform as they suppose to, is that LYB's fault? So, the logic is, hey, I dont blame myself when I fail a course, but I only blame other kids are too smart and too hard working? :rolleyes:

[bananakid]

:D You can say bye bye to badminton as an Olympic sport without limited entry. And no Olympic sport means no funding in a whole lot of countries which in turn will lead badminton even further away from Olympic status (unless money becomes available otherwise like in tennis).

I guess if you want to cut down the number of disciplines in athletics you could make it decathlon + heptathlon and marathon only :cool:;)

Oh yeah bananakid needs some more bananas ... what's the point of a Player's Federation if the president can't voice any complaints :p?

We here in Canada(a 1st world country) has plenty of bananas, so you don't need to worry about me. you can make your point across without referring to my login name. If you are interested in trading personal insult, you don't need to look any further... I am the one that will give you plenty, just ask for it.:eek:

My original post only shows how much I dislike the fact that instead of training hard and delivering results on a badminton court, Milroy decides to waste time "voicing" his "valuable" opinion, which I do have the right to disagree with his opinion, as much as you have to disagree with mine.

[LazyBuddy]

Yes we should throw them all in jail for speaking their mind :cool:

Why would the player federation help develop players? It's there to protect the players interests not develop their skills, just like the NHLPA or other players associations


When I mean "develop", I don't mean provide free training or something. Mental development, and error analysis is important. Great, let the federation teaches the players "it's not my fault, it's because of others..." Way to go, at least make yourself feel better when you fail... :(

Well, that might train them to win the national debating champion, but not badminton champion. :cool:

[bananakid]

it seem bwf had only approved certain feather shuttlecocks. Other than that, anything goes:p We need a PPF, Plastic Players Federation:D Their voice has been muted for too long:p

Plastic Players Federation! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!:D
May I also put a law in this federation, that only fake Yonex rackets can be used at all times!:p

[LazyBuddy]

Once it comes LYB, LD, CHN whatever, every non-CHN player / coach / staff / fan suddenly start to use "god" standard to value things. In a fraction of second, everyone is honest, nice, hardworking, polite, what so ever. No one has to worry about their job status, only go for the "honesty and honor".

If CHN/LYB is really evil, but they get the most success, maybe god wants us to be evil? :rolleyes:

[bananakid]

Let me ask you, if non-CHN players can't perform as they suppose to, is that LYB's fault? So, the logic is, hey, I dont blame myself when I fail a course, but I only blame other kids are too smart and too hard working? :rolleyes:

This has been the mentality of the majority of people in today's society.
Not improving themselves, but find excuses to why they aren't winners.

As much as I am not a fan of LCW, but I do admire his willingness to improve.
As much as I am not too impressed with Bao CL's winning record(in terms of title), but you have to admit that you never heard him whine or cry about being Mr. Runner-up for the most part of his career so far.

Then you look at the fans, they blame everything on LYB, CHN, CHN's line judges, and everything else you can think of, except their idols, and it works the same way with their idols. I don't want to list any examples here because it will provoke people, but just read all the recent threads around, and you will find out for yourself.

[bananakid]

Once it comes LYB, LD, CHN whatever, every non-CHN player / coach / staff / fan suddenly start to use "god" standard to value things. In a fraction of second, everyone is honest, nice, hardworking, polite, what so ever. No one has to worry about their job status, only go for the "honesty and honor".

If CHN/LYB is really evil, but they get the most success, maybe god wants us to be evil? :rolleyes:


LOL... what religion are you involved in? I will make sure I am a part of it...hahaha.:p just kidding.

[LazyBuddy]

This has been the mentality of the majority of people in today's society.
Not improving themselves, but find excuses to why they aren't winners.


Because hard work takes years of effort, tons of sweat even blood.

Finger pointing only takes a big mouth full of mouth water, a double-standard mentality, and a golden rule of "right of speech".

Soon, badminton WC should change the title to world detabing championship, because we have so many lawyer-like good talkers. :o

[bananakid]

Because hard work takes years of effort, tons of sweat even blood.

Finger pointing only takes a big mouth full of mouth water, a double-standard mentality, and a golden rule of "right of speech".

Soon, badminton WC should change the title to world DEBATING championship, because we have so many lawyer-like good talkers. :o

fixed.

As long as the main skill need is double standard mentality, then I know there is a country with a number of top-tier like candidates (BC members) who will also guarantee the 1st gold medal for their country.:p

[yourbestfriend]

banning the china players from the olympics because their head coach did something is down right stupid. one bad apple doesn't ruin the bunch. if the coach were to be "punished" i say leave the players out of it. and plus the IOC has enough on its hands as far as "cheating" is concerned, AKA doping. in comparison, this little problem is no where near as big, and therefore i don't believe they can and will do too much for this cause.

i also believe that there really is no way to combat this form of "cheating". limiting the amount of athletes a country may send is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, it will limit the amount of match fixing but it is not fair to the players who deserve to be there. Just ask Zhu Lin. If i were a player, i would want all the top 15 or so players in the world to participate bar nobody. That way if i were to win a medal i know that i beat the best of the best, excluding nobody.

[LYB-Fan]

This has been the mentality of the majority of people in today's society.
Not improving themselves, but find excuses to why they aren't winners.

As much as I am not a fan of LCW, but I do admire his willingness to improve.
As much as I am not too impressed with Bao CL's winning record(in terms of title), but you have to admit that you never heard him whine or cry about being Mr. Runner-up for the most part of his career so far.

Then you look at the fans, they blame everything on LYB, CHN, CHN's line judges, and everything else you can think of, except their idols, and it works the same way with their idols. I don't want to list any examples here because it will provoke people, but just read all the recent threads around, and you will find out for yourself.
i'm totally agree with you...
oh my dear bobby.....
stop this please...

[taneepak]

I think Bob Milroy is jumping the gun. At end 2007 the BWF established an Athletics Commission, which is a higher body than the PBF. The Athletics Commission will comprise of 3 members elected by the BPF and 2 players elected by the badminton Olympic athletes at the Beijing Olympics. This would require some minor changes to the BPF constitution and players approval at the AGM in May in Jarkata. The players' representative, with a voting right, to the BWF council will be in place after the Beijing Olympics.
Prior to the new changes above a representative from the BPF had participated in the BWF Council and Committee meetings. The new players' representative will now come from the Athletics Commission, which will now have 5 credible members-3 members from BPF and 2 "real" players elected by the Beijing Olympics players. You think these 5 members will elect Bob Milroy?

[xXazn_romeoXx]

LOL maybe Bobby Milroy's just upset he didn't "qualify" for the Beijing Olympics and therefore, should make sure that China's own players can't play in their own Olympics :p...(Andrew, We Believe In You!!)...

on a serious note, i agree with the point that most major tourny results would not change, even if match fixing is gone. If both chinese players have to play each other, then for sure one will be out. why is it bad for a nation to make sure their best go forward and try and medal? now, player's interest wise, yes it is very unethical. But until the sport is seen like tennis, where individuals play each other, countries will battle countries. I further agree with the points made previously about TDF and NASCAR. How come we don't hear any complaints about drivers and racers from those respective sports about how "unfair" the situation is? if you are truely the best, in the end, you will win the match/tournament. don't worry about what other countries are doing in their own matches. as a player, you should find out their "match-fixed" result, and focus on who you're playing, and win. Unless you're part of a country which fixes matches...in that case, avoid the coach at all costs so he/she can't tell you to lose ;)

[cooler]

not to discredit bobby milroy's effort to enhance badminton image, i think he should divert his energy and focus on badminton in canada. Badminton lost major funding from Sport Canada and there is no better way to boost canadian badminton scene than havig bobby upping badminton profile in canada, and work the politicans and lobby to get back our funding, if not more, for badminton canada. If we end up more high caliber players in canada, bobby's legacy is even greater in my eye.

[xXazn_romeoXx]

not to discredit bobby milroy's effort to enhance badminton image, i think he should divert his energy and focus on badminton in canada. Badminton lost major funding from Sport Canada and there is no better way to boost canadian badminton scene than havig bobby uppering basdminton profile in canada, and work the politicans and lobby to get back our funding, if not more, for badminton canada. If we end up more high caliber players in canada, bobby's legacy is even greater in my eye.

i agree. it was definately tough to see Mike Beres compete without funding earlier this year...However, after the Olympic Exhibition that He and Andrew Dabeka pulled off yesterday at the RA Center, our Olympians shall be fine ;):p