Gold medals count or total medals count?

[robin7]

U.S. will be rocked by China’s heavy medals

By Dan Wetzel (http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/expertsarchive;_ylt=Akm9lOFpFl4ktcrs7tvKvoy7KZt4?a uthor=Dan+Wetzel), Yahoo! Sports Aug 22, 3:45 pm EDT

BEIJING – Across the Chinese media, the story has hit saturation coverage. China (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/chn/;_ylt=Ai0Y5d.sxZiVSg8n3.T3UU27KZt4), once mocked as “the weaklings of Asia,” is going to win what it calls the total medal count for the Beijing Games.

China, like most of the world, values gold medals above all and only counts them in the standings. With 47 and counting, its total dwarfs all other nations. The United States (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/usa/;_ylt=AhLXNgGzf2Aq3M63uYUW36G7KZt4) is second with 31.

In the U.S., all medals are counted, so the Americans still hold a lead (102-89 after Friday’s competition) by that standard. The U.S. is trying to retain the total medal supremacy (by its count) it’s held since boycotting the 1980 Moscow Olympics. The U.S. has won the most golds since 1996.

In China, the accounting differences don’t matter. By the Chinese’s standard, this is over. And that’s the only standard. They talk about China’s victory all day on state-run television. Stories are all over the nation’s government-controlled major newspapers.

“China’s Gold Boom!” screamed one show on CCTV.
The difficult thing for the Americans to stomach is the situation is unlikely to change in future Games. This isn’t a one-time surge by a host nation. This isn’t even a run of great success.

China’s system of athletics places value on the medal count above all – as opposed to professional success or athlete choice. Whether the U.S. holds on this time or not, eventually China’s system, coupled with its 1.3 billion people, should be unstoppable.


The U.S. can’t and, despite USOC claims, probably won’t want to compete in the same manner.

“China has been systematically targeting every single available medal, and we’re going to have to do that in the future,” the USOC’s Peter Ueberroth said. “It’s going to be very difficult (to dislodge China). The resources that they put toward their Olympic team and the population base and the dedication is fantastic.”

The proof of America’s challenge was in successful American athletes all over Beijing the last two days.

There was Hope Solo (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/usa/hope+solo/221866/;_ylt=As7akdfYdmePAGCb7MqvW5O7KZt4) as she climbed a gold medal stand for women’s soccer, Tayshaun Prince (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/usa/tayshaun+prince/221608/;_ylt=AqcUugV3wqJJ94uiZ3s32YO7KZt4) as he grabbed a rebound in a men’s basketball semifinal victory over Argentina (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/arg/;_ylt=ArK4rwhGoU0NtcmrE1qqRQW7KZt4), and Jennie Finch (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/usa/jennie+finch/220650/;_ylt=AoQraOr_CVrWBL7n3m.IP427KZt4) as she teared up at winning just silver in what is expected to be the last softball competition. All are world-class athletes and all helped deliver a medal. If the goal is the medal count, though, none of the three may have maximized their ability.

If they had competed in individual sports where they could’ve racked up multiple medals, rather than be part of a team that won just one, those three could have been more valuable by medal count standards.

In China, they wouldn’t have had a choice. A sports star, like the property a house is built on, is owned by the government. The pursuit of sport is for national pride. The motivation is societal, as opposed to capitalistic in the United States.


China selects athletes at young ages and pushes them into sports in which their expected body types might thrive. In the U.S., an athlete is allowed to follow his own path to success or failure.

The results are dramatic. In an effort to bolster its Olympic standing – the total medal count – China embarked on a program in which it placed particular emphasis in competitions that awarded many medals and where world competition wasn’t particularly robust. As recently as 1988, China won just five golds.

In these Games, it has been powered by eight golds in weightlifting, seven in diving and five in shooting. While the Chinese have won their share of heavily contested competitions, such as women’s gymnastics, the focus on more obscure sports has paid dividends.

China doesn’t apologize for it. Nor should it. It has its goal and the perfect plan to attain it.


In the U.S., the athlete’s goal is most often himself. The two sports that siphon off the most male athletes are football and basketball. Combined, they yield just a single medal.


Would Jake Long be a great hammer thrower and thus valuable to the USOC? Considering his powerful 6-foot-7, 315-pound frame, long arms and quick feet, it stands to reason yes. Long, though, was the first overall pick of the NFL draft and signed a contract worth $57 million to block for the Miami Dolphins (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/mia/;_ylt=AmFjYyHVxMfqiRHK9ZKa1cy7KZt4).

No one in their right mind in the States would expect him to do anything else.
In men’s basketball, where the U.S. is favored to win gold, imagine the value the players would have if they broke off into individual pursuits. LeBron James (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/usa/lebron+james/220991/;_ylt=Avsl11Mh7CElydNTW07ejC67KZt4) as a heavyweight boxer? Prince and his 6-8 height and 7-2 wing span as a swimmer? Michael Redd (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/usa/michael+redd/242258/;_ylt=Ahlm_TcDnB_5I_EH3JZ8TkW7KZt4) as a dead-eye shooter (rifle, not jump)?
If they were Chinese, they might produce many medals rather than a combined one.

While some Chinese athletes make considerable money in endorsements and performance contracts – hurdler Liu Xiang (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/chn/xiang+liu/236181/;_ylt=AhQrEy2y._4szyG7.KRYIpK7KZt4)’s likeness is everywhere here – the lack of professional sports opportunities create a mindset foreign to America and conducive to Olympic glory.

Then there are Solo and Finch, two high-profile female athletes. The U.S. is particularly strong in women’s sports, although much of it is in team competition. Just on Thursday here, American teams in beach volleyball and soccer all won gold. Softball won silver, and basketball and indoor volleyball each advanced to gold-medal games.


That’s an enormous amount of gifted athletes producing just five potential medals. And softball is slated for elimination from play after these Olympics.


Team sports, thanks to Title IX legislation from the early 1970s, have been a powerful and positive force in the lives of American girls, whether they reach this level or not. It’s a system that remains the right one for the United States and through the years has produced 2,200 total medals (over 900 of them gold), more than twice any other nation.

China is coming, though. America will have to accept that what’s best for it may not be best for nationalistic headlines or prideful medal counts.

Soon enough, the Chinese winning the medal count won’t be a question of accounting or even such big news.

================================================== =

Gold medals count or total medals count?

Your thoughts?

[robin7]

Forgot the link...

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/news;_ylt=Avyg_9wdfvrG6QtouMy7m4eVTZd4?slug=dw-medalcount082208&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[drifit]

for me, of course the GOLD medal counts. not total......;)
if a country with 50 silvers & 60 bronzes, this country will be the top? :rolleyes:

[Qidong]

There should be a formula for tot medal counts, eg gold = 2 silver, silver = 1.5 bronze. Otherwise it doesn't make sense just to count the # of medals.

[drifit]

look at the chart..... see some funny facts
Armenia = 6 bronze
Sweden, Croatia
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/medals

what is USA trying to do.......?

[cooler]

i had anticipated this question, and my answer is to consider all medals, and expressed it in points
If 5 for gold, 3 for silver, 1 for bronze

then... gold silver bronze Total Points
China ....51 ....21... 28 ...100....346
USA.......36 ....38 ....36...110....330
Russia ...23 ....21 ....28.....72....206

In my point system, the overall score favors china.
I think it's a fair way to look at it. I know some people value gold more, so china's point would be even higher

[drifit]

i had anticipated this question, and my answer is to consider all medals, and expressed it in points
If:
5 for gold, 3 for silver, 1 for bronze

then... gold silver bronze Total Points
China ....51 ....21... 28 ...100....346
USA.......36 ....38 ....36... 110....330
Russia ...23 ....21 ....28.....72.....206

In my point system, the overall score favors china
this is more acceptable than just rely on most medal counts.

[ForBirdie22]

Countries (US or China) will pick whatever one they had higher numbers in for bragging rights. What if one had both the highest in gold and total... clear cut winner, but since its split between each country, then of course they'll be bias.

point system is a good idea, but whats the point? there isn't a trophy or ANOTHER medal just for who has the most points from the medal counts. just to say one country is better than the other...

[cooler]

Countries (US or China) will pick whatever one they had higher numbers in for bragging rights. What if one had both the highest in gold and total... clear cut winner, but since its split between each country, then of course they'll be bias.

point system is a good idea, but whats the point? there isn't a trophy or ANOTHER medal just for who has the most points from the medal counts. just to say one country is better than the other...u have no idea how powerful an image can be.

[taneepak]

Countries (US or China) will pick whatever one they had higher numbers in for bragging rights. What if one had both the highest in gold and total... clear cut winner, but since its split between each country, then of course they'll be bias.

point system is a good idea, but whats the point? there isn't a trophy or ANOTHER medal just for who has the most points from the medal counts. just to say one country is better than the other...

There is only one system in the medal table, and it is the one used by the IOC. The table used by the IOC is based on the gold medals only. This makes sense as only the national anthem of the gold medal winner is played. Silver and bronze are more of consolation prizes.

[Qidong]

There is only one system in the medal table, and it is the one used by the IOC. The table used by the IOC is based on the gold medals only. This makes sense as only the national anthem of the gold medal winner is played. Silver and bronze are more of consolation prizes.

But if you look at nbc tv, nbc.com , major US newspapers, they all used table based on medal count. As cooler said, image is so powerful. :)

[V1lau]

this is more acceptable than just rely on most medal counts.

But what about populations, when you compare America's 350mill to China's 1.3bill it less impressive.

Again it still rubs me the wrong way that China and India can't find 11 guys who can kick a ball good, after all Football or soccer is the most popular sport in the world.

[ctjcad]

..it is what it is and the reason(s) for CHN's success in tallying the most Gold medals, in this yr's OG, have been explained thoroughly by Mr. Wetzel.:cool:
So, I don't see what the big fuss or hoo-ha is all about. CHN has emerged & CHN deserved it.:cool:

And actually this similar occurence had happened before. If one were to go back to the 1964 OG, it was the last time in which 2 separate countries had the most Gold medals and overall total medals, respectively. Russia won the overall total medals but U.S. won the most Gold medals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Summer_Olympics

Btw, in Wikipedia, they list CHN as this yr's 1st place winner; i guess it's been the way they've awarded the country which has the most Gold medals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_olympics

For the record in the modern day Olympics:
The most total combined medals ever, in pre-WWI & WWII, was achieved by the U.S. in 1904.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1904_Summer_Olympics
And the UK/Great Britain had the most Gold medals ever in 1908.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1908_Summer_Olympics

Of course, after WWII, the most total medals ever was achieved by Russia in the U.S.-led boycott of the 1980 OG.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_at_the_1980_Summer_Olympics
And in response, the most total Gold medals ever was achieved by the U.S. in the Russia-led boycott of the 1984 OG.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Summer_Olympics

[taneepak]

But if you look at nbc tv, nbc.com , major US newspapers, they all used table based on medal count. As cooler said, image is so powerful. :)

But the major US newspapers, nbc, tv, nbc.com and what-have-you did not hold the Olympics Games. The IOC did.

[cooler]

But what about populations, when you compare America's 350mill to China's 1.3bill it less impressive.

Again it still rubs me the wrong way that China and India can't find 11 guys who can kick a ball good, after all Football or soccer is the most popular sport in the world.
yes, soccer can make that claim if u count everyone who kicks a ball around, in alleys, parks, and open space. It is easy to do and lowest cost too, ie barrier to this sport is low. However, if one only count people playing soccer with real soccer field with lines and offical size net, it is not that many players. In the early rounds of the OG soccer competition, the soccer stand was near empty. The gov't then gather locals to fill up the empty seats. My point is, soccer is not that popular in china as some people led to believe. I think more chinese watch soccer than playing it. Therefore, not as many funding or good athlete want to go into it. This last point is just my opinion, not proven facts.

[Dreamzz]

yeah, i think we should just follow the IOC's standings, what's the point of making up your own?

[V1lau]

Michael Phelps would have finished tied for 9th in the gold medal count, ahead of countries including France, Netherlands, Spain, Canada, Argentina, Switzerland, Brazil and Mexico.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/36-facts-about-the-Olympic-medal-count?urn=oly,103037

Funniest thing I've read all day

[Dreamzz]

yeah, and he won more swimming golds than the rest of the world combined.

[Qidong]

yeah, and he won more swimming golds than the rest of the world combined.

There are 34 swimming golds, US won 12, rest of world won 22... :confused:

[robin7]

It reminds me of who to be called the fastest man between Michael Johnson and Donovan Bailey back in 1997. Johnson was the record holder of 200m while Bailey held 100m. They were forced to run in 150m.

However, I think CHN deserves to be "the overall winner".

[robin7]

Michael Phelps would have finished tied for 9th in the gold medal count, ahead of countries including France, Netherlands, Spain, Canada, Argentina, Switzerland, Brazil and Mexico.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/36-facts-about-the-Olympic-medal-count?urn=oly,103037

Funniest thing I've read all day
We know, of course, where the author comes from...

[Qidong]

There are 34 swimming golds, US won 12, rest of world won 22... :confused:

Nevermind, it's men only.

[DivingBirdie]

This has got to be the most biased, americanized article i've read since some time...check out the video link on the article too...

The video and article fallaciously tries to explain the 'training differences' between US and China---about the US sportsmen excelling in their sport due to PASSION and FLAIR...as compared to China's policy of 'forcing' extremely young children into training camps. I am quite disgusted by how they try to portray that chinese athletes are products massed out from training camps, while US athletes are a more passion/talent-orientated bunch who "chooses their preferred sport according to interest, rather than being 'forced' into a sport that their bodies are suited to." (especially gymnasts).

I personally think that sports like gymnastics is unique and that it strongly requires, and makes perfect sense, to conduct such physical examinations, since some body builds are definitely not suitable for the sport...

It is true that these kids enter the training camps at a very tender age---definitely before they are mature enough to make lifelong decisions for themselves. However, it is unreasonable to conclude that children are forced into a sport they don't like...At an age where one is unable to make decisions for themselves, is it wrong for parents to decide what's good for them??Training camps are not concentrations camps, and parents wouldn't send their kids to be ill-treated anyway. Sure training regimes in those camps can be tough, with specially crafted diets adhered strictly to etc...but all of these are indispensible part and parcel of professionalism.

Such professionalism is existent in other countries. Can any US athlete come up and tell me "I got my gold medal today despite training much less than those chinese athletes!! My training is so slack and i totally didn't miss out on any pieces of childhood life as compared to the regular child, yet i got to where i am today!!" Would any chinese athlete say " i got my medal today although i don't like my sport...i got forced into it but due to the hours clocked training i secured a medal! Talent is secondary, and can be fully compensated by body-punishing training regimes!"

That'd be total ******** right? Of course i've seen statements made on the same wavelength---like claims about Lin Dan being a machine which relies on brute power and speed, but has less flair than TH/LCW.

Personal choice is important. If Markis Kido was more into basketball than badminton, no one would be able to stop him from participating. However, there is a chinese saying:心有余而力不足...which means your zeal for something falls short of your own capabilities. In addition, i would like to cite a piece of information---some time ago a singaporean wrote in to the press to complain about her daughter not being able to secure a place in the National University of Singapore's School of Medicine, despite having fantastic grades and being so very interested in medicine. She complained that there was no room in singapore for one to pursue his own interests...

I feel sad for the daughter but my point is sometimes there's a reason why government systems, quotas and policies are put in place and not everyone can be happy. How many singaporeans are 'interested' to serve in the army? You'd say "how can national defence be compared to winning olympic medals?" Well...in my opinion, the morale and spirit of 1.3billion chinese, the overall global outlook china produces, the economic and social impacts brought about by holding the Games as well as the shiny pieces yielded, are far more significant than our armed forces.

Of course you'd argue that out of the bulk of kids sent to training camps, there are millions who trained just as hard, but they didn't make it. Might seem pitiful at first thought, but the trend is that many such athletes secure jobs as coaches overseas(and they get paid more than the writers who wrote those articles). They also grow up with some moral values, and usually doesn't go around abusing drugs or using firearms to kill and rob. And before you tell me that these athletes miss out on education, we should take a look at how many US kids do not make it to college at all (whether or not they pursued sports)...my point is, making a commitment to put your son into a training camp is a huge one, and definitely shouldn't be taken lightly, but training camps do not really ruin anyone's lives, nor pose any severe societal problems, though some might regret the path when they see lucrative opportunities beyond the sporting world.

The article also capitalised on shallow arguments as excuses---such as China drawing athletes from a larger populace. Or about china "[embarking on a program in which it placed particular emphasis in competitions that awarded many medals and where world competition wasn’t particularly robust]."

Let's see. Isn't this what sporting excellence is about? We want to see the best sportsperson on the world stage. If the athlete is a selected one in a billion, the better. We want to see development of less robust sports. Furthermore, a sport has to meet IOC's standards in participation before it could join the list of olympic sports.

Lastly, how would an olympian feel if he reads this article and realises some people see them as mere products comparable to a commodity manufactured in bulk at a China factory? How would it feel if your passion is undermined?

[eaglehelang]

hmmm, if Markis Kido is a China baddy player, he would not have been selected into the China team - too short, MK at 1.68 m is the shortest male player this OG. That is not even considered potential medal material. It has been discussed before China has minimum height requirement for their players.

The China female gold medalist in weighlifting & broke the OG record, was asked to change sport from Judo to Weightlifting, cos she was deemed too short for Judo. I dunno how much she liked or not like Judo, who knows, she could have been a world beater in that sport too.

Some countries, as long as the althetes show good results in their chosen sport, they're in the squad.

[Dreamzz]

isn't that sort of similar to what the aussies did with their sports program?
highly successful as well, i might add.

[Turnip]

The Olympic spirit is about celebrating "individual achievement and international cooperation." I agree with ESPN writer Gregg Easterbrook that having a international competition of medals is against this spirit. People win the medals, not countries. It's ok if it's just fun, but I can't take the medal count seriously.

[ctjcad]

This has got to be the most biased, americanized article i've read since some time...check out the video link on the article too...
...
..i think all athletes in the Olympics have some sort of passion, flair and dreams..No matter from what countries they are from.

..but i think the point of the author's article is mentioned here:
"In China, they wouldn’t have had a choice. A sports star, like the property a house is built on, is owned by the government. The pursuit of sport is for national pride. The motivation is societal, as opposed to capitalistic in the United States."

It basically boils down to the mindset and philosophy of both countries. For the U.S. Olympians, the general mindset for after the games have ended tends to be on rewards (mainly monetary) and what'll await if an athlete accomplished Gold medal(s), usually one will get major endorsement deals (e.g. Phelps, Carl Lewis etc.). The big corporations would already eye the big winners and use their achievements to pocket in their own cash. Of course, there are a few other athletes who would play just to win a Gold medal, as they have tons of cash already set for them for the future (for example the NBA players in the "Redeem Team").
In addition, here in the U.S., most of the Olympics' events' training/preparation/sponsorship are funded/owned privately. In the U.S. there are only a few major govt. sponsored programs for these type of Olympics events (maybe they'll think twice and have one in the future?). Further, young kids in the U.S. are already influenced by the 3 major sporting leagues (NBA, NFL & MLB). The mindset, one can say, has already been groomed to pursue & play in those big-money leagues rather than to train in Olympics type events (e.g. swimming, gymnastics, diving, judo, karate etc.); if not to earn as much buckaroos.

And quite a few of the U.S. Olympians pursed/forked out their own Olympics training and preparation funding out of their own pockets (even some of the U.S. badminton players are regular employees). Some other athletes are regular everyday employees who are sponsored by their own companies (some of them even work for Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/HomePageView?storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&langId=-1&orig_ref=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3F ei%3DISO-8859-1%26fr%3Dmegaup%26q%3Dhome%2Bdepot), a home improvement type retailer).
So, if one doesn't have enough funding or sponsorship from his or her own pockets or from a private institution, in the U.S., then one can say bye2 to that Olympic dream..

Different story with China....

[LazyBuddy]

But what about populations, when you compare America's 350mill to China's 1.3bill it less impressive.

Again it still rubs me the wrong way that China and India can't find 11 guys who can kick a ball good, after all Football or soccer is the most popular sport in the world.


I never known the medal counts need to be divided by a nation. :eek:

Now you tell me, why CHN has 1.3B, and they can only send 3 badminton players, where nation XYZ has say 2 million, can send 3 as well. If you want medal counts to reflect the population, then # of entries need to reflect that as well to be fair to begin with. Then, CHN should fill in 16 players, and IND has another 16 in 64 entries, as they combine to be nearly half of world population. :D


They can not find enough guys to kick a ball? Then tell me why 90% of the world can't find a person to smash a shuttle or do a nice flip in gymnastics? :o

[LazyBuddy]

Michael Phelps would have finished tied for 9th in the gold medal count, ahead of countries including France, Netherlands, Spain, Canada, Argentina, Switzerland, Brazil and Mexico.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/36-facts-about-the-Olympic-medal-count?urn=oly,103037

Funniest thing I've read all day


However, if you take MP out, you can say the US team is a total failure??? :rolleyes: As their entire team only has less than 30 Gold??? And they have to rely on 1 guy (and a few teammates) to boost their total to be 40% more?

Come on, show some respect to all the participants...

[LazyBuddy]

Regardless which way to count, the fact is CHN is improving. You can argue their system, or feel sorry (actually, a lot of them feel happy and proud) for some of the atheletes, the fact is, they can produce a lot of top athletes in whatever you like or don't like ways.

[V1lau]

I never known the medal counts need to be divided by a nation. :eek:

Now you tell me, why CHN has 1.3B, and they can only send 3 badminton players, where nation XYZ has say 2 million, can send 3 as well. If you want medal counts to reflect the population, then # of entries need to reflect that as well to be fair to begin with. Then, CHN should fill in 16 players, and IND has another 16 in 64 entries, as they combine to be nearly half of world population. :D


They can not find enough guys to kick a ball? Then tell me why 90% of the world can't find a person to smash a shuttle or do a nice flip in gymnastics? :o

The huge difference is that smashing a shuttle and flipping in gymnastics pays a whole lot less then kicking a ball through a goal. I'll agree with one person's view that the infrastructure for organize football might not be fully developed in China but, really they need to be able to at the very least qualify for the World Cup.

Anyways, I am sure the only gold medal Americans really cared about in this Olympics was Basketball. Had they lost that game I'm sure most Americans would of felt this Olympics was a disaster.

I'll agree that the article is Americentric, but he's writing for American readers after all. I think he should of just showed how the two styles of producing world class athletes are different, not that one is necessarily better than the other, but then again its a sports writer which I assume they don't have to be as unbiased as someone who writes for foreign affairs.

[cooler]

hmmm, if Markis Kido is a China baddy player, he would not have been selected into the China team - too short, MK at 1.68 m is the shortest male player this OG. That is not even considered potential medal material. It has been discussed before China has minimum height requirement for their players.

your view is very narrow. Gong Zhichao is short, she got in, was never asked to leave the team. In fact, LYB favored her over taller yi Z Ying for the WS final in 2000. Gu Jun is also short and she made it. Gong Ruina is much taller either Tall players tend to do better so we tend to see more of them. I think MAL has height restriction too, Hafiz is lousy but he's still around because he's taller than new entries:rolleyes:

The China female gold medalist in weighlifting & broke the OG record, was asked to change sport from Judo to Weightlifting, cos she was deemed too short for Judo. I dunno how much she liked or not like Judo, who knows, she could have been a world beater in that sport too.

I bet she loved that gold medal title in weightlifting LOL. Why does giving career advice to students, athletes are considered coercion in china but called career counselling outside china? Before pointing fingers at somone, how well is your own country is doing with your 'ethical' method? If u dunno if she liked it, and we dunno either whether she do well in judo or not, what's your point? Maybe she preferred basket weaving but was forced into judo in the first place, we dunno.

Some countries, as long as the althetes show good results in their chosen sport, they're in the squad.
hmmm, Mr. yoyo hafiz isn't good, why is he in the squad sucking up public money?
.................

[bananakid]

There is only "1" winner in each "specific" event, and that winner gets a "gold" medal. The gold medal symbolizes the success of the winner, while the silver and bronze is just saying "nice effort, try harder next time". Therefore, only gold medal counts make sense.


It's like saying someone(from China, for example) won 8 silver + 1 bronze in all swimming events is better than Michael Phelps who won 8 gold... I wonder who would be considered as the better man under the U.S method of medal counts.:rolleyes:

[cooler]

Regardless which way to count, the fact is CHN is improving. You can argue their system, or feel sorry (actually, a lot of them feel happy and proud) for some of the atheletes, the fact is, they can produce a lot of top athletes in whatever you like or don't like ways.

this reminds me of the early days when the first japanese cars (toyota, datsun) were sold in the US, their cars were laughed it and ridiculed. Now japanese cars and their manufacturing ethics are copied. 10 years ago, china never heard of beach volleyball or windsailing, now the the women won silver and gold. I'm not boosting china but if countries that are busy twisting data to make themself feeling good about themselves and not looking ways to improve themself, just look at GM, ford and chrysler now compared to honda and toyota.

[chris-ccc]

There is only one system in the medal table, and it is the one used by the IOC. The table used by the IOC is based on the gold medals only. This makes sense as only the national anthem of the gold medal winner is played. Silver and bronze are more of consolation prizes.







There is only "1" winner in each "specific" event, and that winner gets a "gold" medal.

The gold medal symbolizes the success of the winner, while the silver and bronze is just saying "nice effort, try harder next time". Therefore, only gold medal counts make sense.



.
Yes, I agree with taneepak and bananakid.

It should be based on the gold medals count.

:):):)
.

[cooler]

The huge difference is that smashing a shuttle and flipping in gymnastics pays a whole lot less then kicking a ball through a goal. I'll agree with one person's view that the infrastructure for organize football might not be fully developed in China but, really they need to be able to at the very least qualify for the World Cup.

Anyways, I am sure the only gold medal Americans really cared about in this Olympics was Basketball. Had they lost that game I'm sure most Americans would of felt this Olympics was a disaster.

I'll agree that the article is Americentric, but he's writing for American readers after all. I think he should of just showed how the two styles of producing world class athletes are different, not that one is necessarily better than the other, but then again its a sports writer which I assume they don't have to be as unbiased as someone who writes for foreign affairs.

china is not stupid. It is far cheaper to train one swimmer that can earn several medals than to fund and train a team of soccer players, only to earn 1 measly medal. Think!!

[cooler]

There is only "1" winner in each "specific" event, and that winner gets a "gold" medal. The gold medal symbolizes the success of the winner, while the silver and bronze is just saying "nice effort, try harder next time". Therefore, only gold medal counts make sense.


It's like saying someone(from China, for example) won 8 silver + 1 bronze in all swimming events is better than Michael Phelps who won 8 gold... I wonder who would be considered as the better man under the U.S method of medal counts.:rolleyes:

of course the US would choose a new way to measure success, like weight of the metal content. 8 gold weigh more than 8 silver + 1 bronze, therefore, US wins!!!hehehe :p:p

If that fail, we can use value of metal.
If melted down, 8 gold worth many times than 8 silver + 1 bronze:p:p

sorry if i had offended some amercian frens here, i was just poking fun on that article.

[yourbestfriend]

Olympic success will and always will be measured by the number of gold medals a country has won. it has been that way for a long time now, i don't even know why this is an issue right now.

[Wong8Egg]

The author sounds no more than a sour loser. First he complains how the medal should be counted, then he cries about the Chinese population and sport system.

Win is a win.

Like the Canadian never complains Kenya has more gold medal than we do. :D

[jlien]

I agree with all the sentiments above, a lot of this is just American propaganda.

China won fair and square, the USA needs to deal with it, seriously.

[Athelete1234]

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/Update-The-REAL-Olympic-medal-count?urn=oly,102540

Another retarded way of America feeling better about it's olympics medal count. What it's pretty much saying is that the american's don't have any creativity or artistry to pull of miracles in judged events.

[taneepak]

Now, now, if the media in the US were to report that China has beaten the US, that would be too hard for the Americans to stomach. So, in their own American way, they are saying the US is no. 1 and China no. 2 in total medals won. This is technically not wrong. However, they were gracious enough to say China did win the most gold medals. It is just words and nobody is robbing anything from anybody. It is just a classic American version of the Win-Win scenario.

[CLELY]

It's definitely gold medal count to determine top-rank/winner in multisport event. USA has its own version to claim the #1.

Looks like USA contingent performance shows stagnant condition in last three summer OG as they always bagged same total golds (36) in Sydney 2000, Athens 2004 and Beijing 2008. Meanwhile China displays gradual but significant improvement where their total gold medals are 28-32-51 in Sydney, Athens and Beijing respectively.

[DivingBirdie]

read on the papers that many countries( eg korea/australia/jamaica) also have rather 'unique' ways of calculating medal tally...did a search and found this cool site

http://www.symworld.com/medals/index.php?sort=totalcalc

[V1lau]

read on the papers that many countries( eg korea/australia/jamaica) also have rather 'unique' ways of calculating medal tally...did a search and found this cool site

http://www.symworld.com/medals/index.php?sort=totalcalc

Some people just have too much time on their hands ... interesting none the less

[jamesd20]

read on the papers that many countries( eg korea/australia/jamaica) also have rather 'unique' ways of calculating medal tally...did a search and found this cool site

http://www.symworld.com/medals/index.php?sort=totalcalc

That is a cool site, good that some people have done the legwork.

One important thing people have missed from this list (probably because too hard to accurately find) is Medals per $ spent.

[LazyBuddy]

China selects athletes at young ages and pushes them into sports in which their expected body types might thrive. In the U.S., an athlete is allowed to follow his own path to success or failure.

...

In the U.S., the athlete’s goal is most often himself. The two sports that siphon off the most male athletes are football and basketball. Combined, they yield just a single medal.


Would Jake Long be a great hammer thrower and thus valuable to the USOC? Considering his powerful 6-foot-7, 315-pound frame, long arms and quick feet, it stands to reason yes. Long, though, was the first overall pick of the NFL draft and signed a contract worth $57 million to block for the Miami Dolphins (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/mia/;_ylt=AmFjYyHVxMfqiRHK9ZKa1cy7KZt4).

No one in their right mind in the States would expect him to do anything else.
In men’s basketball, where the U.S. is favored to win gold, imagine the value the players would have if they broke off into individual pursuits. LeBron James (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/usa/lebron+james/220991/;_ylt=Avsl11Mh7CElydNTW07ejC67KZt4) as a heavyweight boxer? Prince and his 6-8 height and 7-2 wing span as a swimmer? Michael Redd (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/usa/michael+redd/242258/;_ylt=Ahlm_TcDnB_5I_EH3JZ8TkW7KZt4) as a dead-eye shooter (rifle, not jump)?
If they were Chinese, they might produce many medals rather than a combined one.



The above just draw my laugh... Clearly, the author has no idea about what "logic" suppose to mean.

Yes, the atheletes from western world has "freedom", but I would rather call it motivation from $$$. LBJ, Prince, Redd and Long must be crazy to give up their mult. million $$$ deals to go with the sports listed above, even if there's a "CHN type test" to determine actually they might be even more successful in another sport. Many pros expressed the feeling of being pro is "another well paid job". Ask Shawn Bradly, Keith Van Horn, Carl Pavano... Once they feel they get enough $$$, quit playing as much as you can. You tell me all such and such are never good at any thing else? Clearly not.

The thing pissed me off even more, if the author totally ignore the hardwork, but only state the natual build. Who told you that LBJ will be the next boxing champion, even though his body build looks like one? Does he even know Prince can swim or not? Now, champion for mult. medals??? Does he know that's hell of a difference between ball shooting and rifle shooting? Give me a big big break. :cool:

Also, I don't know why this author (and many others from western) draw the pic of CHN sports schools as a concentration camp. Do they know that even as of today, many poor family eagerly want their kids to attend sports school? Why? Because it's considered as a very good career! Imagine if the kid is good, he can earn a very reasonable salary when he's even 15 yrs old? I think that's very good of a deal, if your background is poor, and even a college grad. does not guarantee a job these days. Yes, they need to train hard, but it's not like train for 20 hrs per day, and only give 20 gram of rice for food. The sports school offer free education (of course, no level near Yale or Princeton), free coaching, free boarding, and free meal. All such and such, there are millions of others can't even afford and dream about. And once you want to leave, there's no one point a gun to your head something, or lock you up. Feel free to leave. Even ppl as good as Pi Hongyan, Xu H. Wen, etc are let go, even that means they are currently playing for other nations.

Also, I don't see anything wrong for selecting the young athlete based on their natual build. Do you want to select Yao Ming to a gymnastics team? Do you want to recruite Nastia Liukin to play basketball? Hell no, even if they tell you they want to. It's all about selection, whether your parent or your government give you the advice. The CHN use the government organizations, however, if you don't want your kid to go, you can say in loudly. Tell me the government going to lock you up, when you don't want to send your "3 yrs old talent" to play badminton or gymnastics. Come on, they have thounds of kids per city, if one wants to go or not, big deal. It's not like they can see a LD or a CJ or a GL when they were 3 yrs old something.

[chris-ccc]

read on the papers that many countries( eg korea/australia/jamaica) also have rather 'unique' ways of calculating medal tally...did a search and found this cool site

http://www.symworld.com/medals/index.php?sort=totalcalc



.
Yes, that's a cool site.

The medals won per nations' population is interesting. But I would like to rank the medals won per team size participating.

It's a great achievement for Mongolia to have won 2 Golds and 2 Silvers when they have only a small team of participants for the Olympic Games.
.

[LazyBuddy]

In the U.S., the athlete’s goal is most often himself. The two sports that siphon off the most male athletes are football and basketball. Combined, they yield just a single medal.


That’s an enormous amount of gifted athletes producing just five potential medals.

If we (as you see where I live now) really don't care about the medal counts, and truely salute to all atheletes, why I've heard over 5,000 times on NBC they call Michael Phelps the greatest Olympions because he have 14 gold, and 8 in 1 OG? Why they call Katie Hoff (nickname female Michael Phelps prior to OG) have a "disappointing OG" (nice enough did not say a total failure) since she did not even get 1 Gold after all such hype?

Team sports, team sports, Michael Phelps will never won 8 without his teammates in relays... How come his teammates never even being nicknamed as "greatest olympion's teamamate" or sidekicks??? Is that really a team??? :rolleyes:

[jamesd20]

.
Yes, that's a cool site.

The medals won per nations' population is interesting. But I would like to rank the medals won per team size participating.

It's a great achievement for Mongolia to have won 2 Golds and 2 Silvers when they have only a small team of participants for the Olympic Games.
.

Only problem with that is it means those countries who support their athletes even if they are not likely to get a medal would look bad as big teams with few medals would be low down.

[Athelete1234]

.
Yes, that's a cool site.

The medals won per nations' population is interesting. But I would like to rank the medals won per team size participating.

It's a great achievement for Mongolia to have won 2 Golds and 2 Silvers when they have only a small team of participants for the Olympic Games.
.
Why not medals per number of total entries, cause one soccer team is already 11 people, so 1 gold medal for that soccer team isn't the 100% it should be.

[yen_saw]

Why not medals per number of total entries, cause one soccer team is already 11 people, so 1 gold medal for that soccer team isn't the 100% it should be.

For IOC, it is one gold per event, regardless of team, individual, double, or mix event.

Olmypic used to have a tie on gold medals where two or even three countries top an event, especially in gymnastic. That has changed with a tie breaker. Can't play more than 1 national anthem at one time ;)

[Linus]

Only problem with that is it means those countries who support their athletes even if they are not likely to get a medal would look bad as big teams with few medals would be low down.

Absolutely agree. There are countries whose sportsman/sportswoman would never be winning any medals, but Olympics present a chance to compete with the world best, and through that hopefully they will exceed their personal best time or their own National record. These are equally great achivement from their perspective.

Besides the medal tally, which pits nations against nations, many individual athletes are actually competing with themselves to get to a higher level.

[eaglehelang]

Cooler

your view is very narrow. Gong Zhichao is short, she got in, was never asked to leave the team. In fact, LYB favored her over taller yi Z Ying for the WS final in 2000. Gu Jun is also short and she made it. Gong Ruina is much taller either Tall players tend to do better so we tend to see more of them. I think MAL has height restriction too, Hafiz is lousy but he's still around because he's taller than new entries:rolleyes:

a) It has been discussed here before that China has a min height requirement of 1.75 m for their male baddy players, my understanding is that's the normal rule or has that been changed? Kido is an example of how shorties can make it.
If he was China player, when he was junior, before he proved himself internationally, would he had made the cut, or did they follow the min height requirement?

b) LCW is below 1.75 metres, so are TCS, CWF, Arif Latif, etc. Only WCH, Hafiz are above 1.75 metres. Of the 6 Msia senior MD pairs = 12 players, only KKK, TBH, uncles are above 1.75 m. Most are only 1.71 to 1.73 metres. So are the back-up players. For Msia, the tallies, > 1.77 m for guys, are few.
LD, CJ, BCL, Chen Yu, Chen Hong, etc, etc, who among them are shorter than 1.75 metres?

c) Isnt there also a min height requirement for female players?
This Gong Zhichao, how short was she? According to this site http://en.beijing2008.cn/42/93/article211929342.shtml, she's 1.63 metres.

Current top China WS players, XXF, ZN, Zhu Lin, Lu Lan, are tallies or at least taller than Msia no 1 & no 2 WS = WMC (1.64 m) & Julia Wong( 1.58 m). Anita Kaur, Tee Jing Yi arent tallies either. Only Lydia Cheah is at 1.72 (??). Msia's no 1 WD : WPT/CEH are not tall (1.63). Ng Hui Lin is on the taller side. So, a lot of Msia female players are as "short" as Gong (I consider 1.63 to be medium). Same case, the tallies are fewer than medium/short.
And that's comparing Asian with Asian.

This topic of height was also discussed in China's baddy forums when WMC won CHina Open 2007, as that WMC isnt a tallie, she can make it, sthing like China should look into it, not tall players can also play, etc,etc.

hmmm, Mr. yoyo hafiz isn't good, why is he in the squad sucking up public money?
again, huh? I was refering to Kido, the MD gold medalist who's a shortie. And if it's Msia players = Zakry from Fuzzy pair, who's 1.69 metres. And the topic height, body shape, that kinda stuff, in relation to player/sportsperson selection. As yourself honestly, if MK is a China player,at 1.68 metres, when he was a raw youngster, would he had been chosen or deemed "too short" to fit the criteria. That was the point with the weightlifter -> too short issue.

Hafiz's issue & Msia's selection problems is another different one & I never said it's a good selection process, or that I like it - sensitive issue.;)

And no hard feelings, Mr :cool:. Cool:D:D

[chris-ccc]

.
eaglehelang ... I agree with you. Badminton players don't have to be tall.

What I find is that taller players have an advantage in playing the above net-height shots, but shorter players have an advantage in playing the below net-height shots.

:):):)
.

[taneepak]

The US uses two medals counting system, depending on which system puts it ahead. In the 1896 Olympics, which was small in scale compared with the 2008 Beijing Olympics, the US media claimed the US won the Olympics with less total medals than Greece but with one gold ahead:

Countries No.1 No.2 No.3 Total
USA 11 7 2 20
Greece 10 16 19 45

Very strange mathematics or politics indeed.

[Qidong]

The US uses two medals counting system, depending on which system puts it ahead. In the 1896 Olympics, which was small in scale compared with the 2008 Beijing Olympics, the US media claimed the US won the Olympics with less total medals than Greece but with one gold ahead:

Countries No.1 No.2 No.3 Total
USA 11 7 2 20
Greece 10 16 19 45

Very strange mathematics or politics indeed.

I believe if next time US doesn't lead in tot medal count or gold medal count, they will come up a new counting system to put US on top. They are good at it. :)