I'm a bit confused on the postings on the level of play/players.

Beginner
Intermediate
Advanced
Professional???

How do you define each level and know which level you're at?

I think I can answer the 'Professional' one. Professional would be playing for money? I think..

The rest.. usually depends on opinion..? Haha. Most usually have different methods of judging.

Beginner - Does not know how to hold the racquet correctly.

Intermediate - Hold's the racquet correctly and have some form of basic footwork with some consistent basic shots such as lobs, drops and smashes eg around 60% of the shots produced always go to the intended directions

Advanced - Those that have mastered some of the basic shots and improvised on it. tend to be much better than intermediates on difficult shots such as back hand, chops and smashes(eg might be jump smashes). They are also the ones that usually reach the quarters of semis of some good tournaments.

Professional - Have probably won some titles here and there and probably is a full time badminton player that is dedicated to badminton perfection.

Jason.

Complete beginner: Less than 10 hours court time, no real knowledge of grips etc. Can hit shuttles back over but no/very little control. Due to the lack of skill, I would not introduce a complete beginner to doubles.

Beginner: Has knowledge of grips and can sometimes apply that knowledge in games ie: using backhand thumb grip for a backhand drive. Can return most shots with a degree of control. I would allow a beginner to play doubles but the result probably wouldn't be too great.

Intermediate: Applies a variety of grips in games to enable greater control and power over difficult shots. Can return all but the most difficult shots. They play the best shot they can for the majority of situations and use a variety of shots to try and overcome their opponent. They attempt deception but it is often easily read. In doubles, they have spacial awareness of both sides of the court. They move in to positions that are beneficial for themselves and their partner and play shots that are challenging for their opponents to return.

Advanced: A player who regularly represents their club and has a strong allround game. They are difficult to beat and have a shot for almost all circumstances. The can use slice to deceive the opponent as well as dummying shots before playing a dropshot. They use the court effectively and punish mistakes. In doubles, they (and a partner of a similar level) can split their opponents and open up space to finish the rally. They punish mistakes and very rarely get in their partner's way or make bad mistakes.

Professional: At least as good as or better than an advanced player. I regard a professional player as someone who is sponsored and/or plays tournaments for money.

Perhaps a different sort of guide will be of help:

1. Beginners (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwPAuBEh1W0) - One guy's trousers are on the verge of descent... and the other's shoes are about to come off. Beginners have almost no game skills but do know how to hit the shuttle around (and down). Here's another example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDHQQqjwXPY) and yet another example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nvQGAo4sPc).

2. Intermediates (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZfsdqhnQcg) - Those nearer to the camera are intermediate players having fun against two others who are obviously beginners. Intermediates have good game skills and, when moving around, are aware of player positions, net height and the size of the playing area. Here's another example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLiABf9AgdU).

3. High Intermediates (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTY_NoXLARY) - These are better than Intermediates in that their on-court awareness level and game skills are higher. Here's another example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKolCiEss3M).

4. Advanced (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUnP7QjccHM) - These players could have made it to the senior national squad in one of the top badminton-playing nations but either lost out to better peers or chose not to pursue such a career. Of course, should they migrate even today to, say, Armenia or Bhutan, they would reign as the national champion for at least a decade. Here's another example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WR7fotZclg).

5. Professional (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=113) - These are players that have gained varying but high levels of mastery over both the physical and mental aspects of advanced badminton. Their skills are finely honed and they devise and execute strategies on the move. They can sustain a rally until the perfect opportunity for a kill arises. Here's another example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRlX7rYXVWs&NR=1) and yet another example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0EDU6FKVGQ).


Special Categories:

I. Retards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiCWGMQfrbE) - This group largely comprises idiots who were on holiday when brains were being distributed. The others in this group want us to believe they're having fun. When encountering such individuals, an act of most tender mercy would be 'shoot at sight', preferably with a large-calibre gun. Here's another example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5XsazFwx-s) and yet another example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXIgEPS8kmg) and yet yet another example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh04hgtnZCc).

II. Pros In The Making (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATADYgztjTs) - For the most part, these are youngsters determined to make their way up. They have excellent listening skills, possess a willingness to develop strength & stamina, and display a commitment to hard work while still having fun. Here's another example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thf5lOxSbkg).

III. Gods (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4kTrk2sE8o) - They create magic with empty spaces, a frame, taut strings, a feathered cork and their presence. They are ambassadors for everything that's wonderful about badminton... and then some. Here's another example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W71aeOYS9I8) and yet another example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5-Rl_U0ZmY).

wait, so Taufik is a God, or just a Professional?
Or is he The Professional god? =D

you guys forgot elite, which is between professional and advanced.

Beginner
Fresh start on badminton, learning how to play badminton (Grip, footwork, hit, reflex initiative, etc). This guy can't do things right yet. Especially when they're fighting with Intermediate or higher level. They don't even stand a chance.

Intermediate
Learned how to do things right. Learning more technique, tactics, better and faster footwork, using wrist instead of shoulder, and more experience compared to the beginners. This one is capable in coordinating themselves, and playing good. Capable in fighting advanced, at least giving a fight.

Advanced
In this level, I'd say there are certain degree of level. As I believe, those who are in Advanced is capable in putting the ball (Shuttlecock) where they want them. These people is capable in using all the basic available in badminton as part of their technique. Has a lot better footwork, speed, reflexes, tactics, etc. Basically they're on the place where they can enjoy playing badminton compared to Beginner-Intermediate.

Professional
Chosen Advanced. Advanced which is spotted by Badminton Scout, have professional Contract, playing for certain club, school, any institute, or countries. This is actually can be called another advanced, and can be defeated by advanced (since I'd say people who's actually good, and not called for International Duty, refusing to join another club, and enjoying leisure playing can still be called Advanced, which is in fact s|he's probably very good).

Just an opinion xD...

wait, so Taufik is a God, or just a Professional?
Or is he The Professional god? =D

I would say Taufik is good enough to be called both at once :D.

God would have use two racquet to play...

No need backhand!

I would say Taufik is good enough to be called both at once :D.

When he's on Fire ~_~.... When he's not... He's suck...

God would have use two racquet to play...

No need backhand!

LOL

Taufik's backhand is so good, it may as well be a second forehand.

@K4mu1: But you could say that about anyone.

Well... yea xD... lol... But, Taufik rarely reach the point of being on fire. Although I believe he'd be no 1 if he's at least as stable as Lin Dan. Since, he's... unbelieveable when he's on fire xD.

Please take the fan commentary elsewhere.
This thread is not on any particular player.

I'm a bit confused on the postings on the level of play/players.

Beginner
Intermediate
Advanced
Professional???

How do you define each level and know which level you're at?



.
jk1980 ... This might help (based on the criteria used by our club).

Basically, we can classify players into 3 categories:
Beginner
Intermediate
Advanced

(1) Beginner:
A. Skill to perform all strokes required ......... Poor
B. Knowledge of the Badminton laws .......... Lacking

(2) Intermediate:
A. Skill to perform all strokes required ......... Good
B. Knowledge of the Badminton laws .......... Adequate

(3) Advanced:
A. Skill to perform all strokes required ......... Excellent
B. Knowledge of the Badminton laws .......... Comprehensive

As for Professionals; If you get paid to play, then you are one. :):):)

Hope you will enjoy your Badminton... regardless of what levels you are at.

:):):)
.

Often times, u think you've improved considerably... can be considered intermediate....then join a new group of people...all of a sudden feel like degraded back to beginner level...<sigh>

My own take on this:

Beginner: Anything below intermediate

Entry Intemediate: Able to direct shuttle in any direction from any court position when not under pressure with very good success. Good basic footwork that allows court coverage between all 4 corners. Observes opponent's playing style and starts to form and deploy strategies/tactics against them. Doubles: Understand the formations and movements, and effectively covers for the partner who is taking the shot.

Entry Advanced: Able to direct shuttle in any direction from any court position even when under pressure with good success. Very good footwork that not only covers the basic 4 corners but is able to adapt the most effective footwork to the appropriate situations. Understands and effectively deploy strategies/tactics against opponents. Doubles: Understands own and opponent's partnership and effectively leverage on the various traits to improve results.

So beginners are all about strokes, intermediates are about understanding tactics, and advanced players uses tactics effectively.

Often times, u think you've improved considerably... can be considered intermediate....then join a new group of people...all of a sudden feel like degraded back to beginner level...<sigh>

Hehe... gone thru so many of such rounds I now consider myself as a beginner all the time. Just slightly better than those who just started holding a racket.

I believe Malaysia doesn't have a grading system. Grading system, if any, varies with different countries. Some countries have a system like Open, grade A, grade B, C, D, E, etc. A grade B in say Canada is perhaps 2 grades lower than in Hong Kong. I have had Canadians who were sponsored players by, if I recollect correctly, Victor and to me they were closer to some D/E players in Hong Kong.
The best and simplest grading system is very good and not very good.

well each country has its own grading system the only flaw lies in when comparing 2 conutries such as taneepak's example and it is true that there are small countries out there with professional players but when they get compared to a bigger country that does more training etc then the profesional players from the small country might get stuck near the bottom compared to the larger countries players.

just what i think about it:

a beginner is somebody who is starting to or has learnt the basics but is not consistint and doesnt have very effective footwork to move or cover the court. they cant place the shuttle where they want it to and are more or less just hitting it back and forth learning how to hit it where they want it to go.

an intemediate player is a player who has developed footwork and consistincy as well as some game stragety. they still arnt super consistint or the fastest on court however. they are starting to get into physical shape or are in a decent physicl shape in terms of fitness and all. they are able to start to put the shuttle where they want it but under the pressure of a game things might not always be friendly for them.

an advanced player is one who has furthered their consistincy and does not crash under pressure or let their shots be sffected by pressure as well as honing their footwork to be explosive and fast on court. they know what shots to play and when to play them. ontop of that they are in great physical shape. they are able to place the shots where they want them to go.

a professional player is somebody who represents their country internationaly in tournaments, holds a world ranking or has held one, or is paid to play and represent as well they most likley hold a sponsorship. and yes have greater qualities than an advanced player.

just my opinion on that.

Beginner - Men who play badminton to court women or women who play badminton to know more men.

Intermediate - People who have nothing better to do after works.

Advanced - Players who bet more than RM10 a game.

Professional- People who feel bored playing badminton but badminton is the only way they know how to earn a living.

Just my 2cents!

r there shots that a person at a level should be able to hit/return
bcz its difficult to judge someone by saying that i 'move around the court pretty well' . i know the right technique to hit the shots but lack consistency, so where would u place me?

r there shots that a person at a level should be able to hit/return bcz its difficult to judge someone by saying that i 'move around the court pretty well' know the right technique to hit the shots but lack consistency, so where would u place me?



.
saifiii ... Probably, you are an Intermediate player.

But why worry about which level you are at?

As long as you are enjoying playing Badminton, you must be happy.

:):):)
.

Unless you are comparing players who have world rankings, any grading system is either local in scope or arbitrary.

This division of players -- into beginner, intermediate, or advanced -- can be useful for a club or small group. But outside a small group, it becomes meaningless.

Despite the meaninglessness of these classifications, players still want to know which category they fall in. Asking a player for his level of play is futile, because you get a response that is based more on personality than anything objective. The response tells you nothing about his real level of play, but it does tell you something about his personality or how he feels about himself. ;)

So we have a hopelessly vague standard, which is further confused by players being either modest or boastful.

I have no idea whether I'm a beginner, an intermediate player, or an advanced player. I have no definitive frame of reference. Next to complete beginners I may look like a pro; next to a pro, I look like a complete beginner. ;)

We had a fun time at one of the Badminton England coaching courses, when we (the coaches) were asked to decide, "What is a beginner?" Needless to say, confusion reigned, and even a room full of coaches could not reach an agreement. :D

Beginner - Men who play badminton to court women or women who play badminton to know more men.

Intermediate - People who have nothing better to do after works.

Advanced - Players who bet more than RM10 a game.

Professional- People who feel bored playing badminton but badminton is the only way they know how to earn a living.

Just my 2cents!

:D

I could never get bored of badminton, not even if I was as good as Lin Dan.

:D

I could never get bored of badminton, not even if I was as good as Lin Dan.

if u got a chance.. try playing badminton 8hours aday, 6days week..

after 8hours of playing, start watching your own replays for 4hours...

:cool:

You have no idea that most retire pro players hardly play the game anymore, they just earn a living by coaching!

I would love to play for 8 hours a day. I play for at least 5 on Saturdays already. OK, the replay thing would be tedious but if you want to be number 1, you'd have to do it.

Also, even earning a living through coaching is still badminton.

I would love to play for 8 hours a day. I play for at least 5 on Saturdays already. OK, the replay thing would be tedious but if you want to be number 1, you'd have to do it.

Also, even earning a living through coaching is still badminton.

5hours a week is nothing compare to 8x6 a week....

Most ex international who stick to badminton because that the best way the can earn a better living through coaching...

there isnt love anymore, is routine...

their love is more towards G0lf!

if u got a chance.. try playing badminton 8hours aday, 6days week..

after 8hours of playing, start watching your own replays for 4hours...

:cool:

You have no idea that most retire pro players hardly play the game anymore, they just earn a living by coaching!

Actually in Indonesia, they're still playing xD... You can always find some money on the field through Bet lol ! Nah just kidding, most of them are coaching (as you say ~_~)

.
jk1980 ... This might help (based on the criteria used by our club).

Basically, we can classify players into 3 categories:
Beginner
Intermediate
Advanced

(1) Beginner:
A. Skill to perform all strokes required ......... Poor
B. Knowledge of the Badminton laws .......... Lacking

(2) Intermediate:
A. Skill to perform all strokes required ......... Good
B. Knowledge of the Badminton laws .......... Adequate

(3) Advanced:
A. Skill to perform all strokes required ......... Excellent
B. Knowledge of the Badminton laws .......... Comprehensive

As for Professionals; If you get paid to play, then you are one. :):):)

Hope you will enjoy your Badminton... regardless of what levels you are at.

:):):)
.

Well... That's odd :eek: I've seen someone with a good "putting" skill xD... But has sticky leg, can't move good. Is this still considered Advanced...? I'd put him at intermediate xD... Since that means he got bad bad footwork.

I think there must be certain ratio of saying what's good what's bad.

Example :
Skill / Technique (30%)
Footwork (20%)
Accuracy (10%)
Mental (10%)
Composure (5%)
Tactics (5%)
Stamina / Body (10%)
Power (10%)

Beginner <55
Intermediate <65
Advanced <80
Professional 80++

This should do it xD... Judging a player at certain level by watching at this points. Other opinion is appreciated xD.

.
saifiii ... Probably, you are an Intermediate player.

But why worry about which level you are at?

As long as you are enjoying playing Badminton, you must be happy.

:):):)
.

A loose form of grading/ranking system would help exactly in forums like this where we can opt to join groups within our grade/rank.

Otherwise it's probably too boring for the better players if joining a group of noobs. And for noobs like me :p it's gonna be a massacre if we joined a bunch of pros.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/modious/BdmGuide.gif

The table's good. But I think the gap between Intermediate and Expert is a bit too large. Probably can fit a few levels like High Intermediate or Advanced in between.

Ratings of players depends on where you are living. In the U.S. I would say that most players consider badminton the game you play on the lawn while waiting for the food to barbeque. The places I play at are open to anyone wanting to play regardless of previous experience. Most do not care about court position, tactics, deception, or scoring. Just having a rally with 8 or 10 hits is as exciting and as much fun as the game with advanced players.

So ranking of players according to their ability is only important for those who want to participate in a tournement and has no bearing on the level of enjoyment you get from the game.

Well... That's odd :eek: I've seen someone with a good "putting" skill xD... But has sticky leg, can't move good. Is this still considered Advanced...? I'd put him at intermediate xD... Since that means he got bad bad footwork.

I think there must be certain ratio of saying what's good what's bad.



.
K4mu1 ... In Australia, we grade players for friendly competition purposes only. It is really for certain groups of players of similar standards do play together in our competitions.

Many moons ago, I was the Official Grader for the Sydney Badminton Association. I have to play against and/or to watch the ability of each player. And then I grade them. And tell you what, it's not that easy.

Many factors are involved (like what you have said):
Skill
Technique
Experience
Knowledge
Tactics
Age
Fitness
Composure
Mental
Stamina
Speed
Power
Footwork
Accuracy
etc...

And let's say there are 4 grades: A, B, C and D. Within each grade, there can be a big range of skills. For example, the top B-grade players are similar to the bottom A-grade players, and the bottom B-grade players are similar to the top C-grade players. So how do you decide?

Actually, when I was in Sydney, there was even a grade called the 'A Reserve', which sits between A and B.

Anyway, we decided that if a player/pair wins a tournament in their grades, they would automatically be promoted to the next higher grade. And we have this rule: Players are only allowed to participate in competitions in their grades or higher, but not lower.

So, you can see... it's all for social/friendly reasons.

In true competition conditions, there should be no grading. Anyone should be able to participate to play against others. And this is found in Asian countries.

Now you know how we do it in Australia. :):):)
.

A loose form of grading/ranking system would help exactly in forums like this where we can opt to join groups within our grade/rank.

Otherwise it's probably too boring for the better players if joining a group of noobs. And for noobs like me :p it's gonna be a massacre if we joined a bunch of pros.



.
jk1980 ... That's exactly what I wish to indicate. :):):)

In my club, we insist that our members to be not arrogant but friendly. We insist that our members, especially the more experienced ones, to help beginners to enjoy Badminton.

It's the participation and the enjoyment of Badminton that we wish to promote.

:):):)
.

something that we can reference is the tennis rating system:

full:

http://dps.usta.com/usta_master/sitecore_usta/USTA/Document%20Assets/2006/04/03/doc_13_12277.pdf

poster version:

http://dps.usta.com/usta_master/sitecore_usta/USTA/Document%20Assets/2006/04/03/doc_13_12278.pdf

i read it and it is quite interesting. food for thoughts.

something that we can reference is the tennis rating system:

i read it and it is quite interesting. food for thoughts.



.
kwun ... You are still awake to monitor us. :D:D:D
.

.
K4mu1 ... In Australia, we grade players for friendly competition purposes only. It is really for certain groups of players of similar standards do play together in our competitions.

Many moons ago, I was the Official Grader for the Sydney Badminton Association. I have to play against and/or to watch the ability of each player. And then I grade them. And tell you what, it's not that easy.

Many factors are involved (like what you have said):
Skill
Technique
Experience
Knowledge
Tactics
Age
Fitness
Composure
Mental
Stamina
Speed
Power
Footwork
Accuracy
etc...

And let's say there are 4 grades: A, B, C and D. Within each grade, there can be a big range of skills. For example, the top B-grade players are similar to the bottom A-grade players, and the bottom B-grade players are similar to the top C-grade players. So how do you decide?

Actually, when I was in Sydney, there was even a grade called the 'A Reserve', which sits between A and B.

Anyway, we decided that if a player/pair wins a tournament in their grades, they would automatically be promoted to the next higher grade. And we have this rule: Players are only allowed to participate in competitions in their grades or higher, but not lower.

So, you can see... it's all for social/friendly reasons.

In true competition conditions, there should be no grading. Anyone should be able to participate to play against others. And this is found in Asian countries.

Now you know how we do it in Australia. :):):)
.

That's what I'm talking about xD...
There can be no chance that grading is so easy... Your explanation is actually more acceptable than mine.

Actually, I'm referring to Yonex Badminton Racket Chart. there are 3 category there, Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced. Maybe we could talk about what's in Yonex mind down here? (Are those level just like me and some others said previously?)

If it comes to Professional, using grades like yours is certain. There always be Black Horse with low rank because s|he's rarely participating in a tourney. Yet s|he won. That's because most badminton tournaments nowadays is using those ranking...

Actually, I'm referring to Yonex Badminton Racket Chart. there are 3 category there, Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced. Maybe we could talk about what's in Yonex mind down here? (Are those level just like me and some others said previously?)


Yonex? The only thing they have in mind is to sell more rackets.

I have a way of telling whether someone is getting better and it involves testing the players backhand because everyone is weaker to a degree on their backhand;

For a beginner, if you hit a clear deep to their backhand they'll just stand there or swing and miss.

For the same backhand shot intermediate players will reach the shuttle, play a shot and return it but they won't be able to return it deep, maybe half court. If you play all your strokes to an intermediate players forehand net followed by an offensive clear to their backhand rearcourt they won't do very well.

Against advanced players, well they can clear deep off their backhand all the way to the baseline with little effort so to beat them you need all the shots in the book.

In my opinion if you don't have the ablilty to return a backhand from baseline to baseline you can't be an advanced player. Intermediate players can have very good forehand shots but on the backhand they'll fall short. That chart on the previous page showed this with the backhand clear/smash being the hardest shot in the book.

Tim H

I have a way of telling whether someone is getting better and it involves testing the players backhand because everyone is weaker to a degree on their backhand;

For a beginner, if you hit a clear deep to their backhand they'll just stand there or swing and miss.

For the same backhand shot intermediate players will reach the shuttle, play a shot and return it but they won't be able to return it deep, maybe half court. If you play all your strokes to an intermediate players forehand net followed by an offensive clear to their backhand rearcourt they won't do very well.

Against advanced players, well they can clear deep off their backhand all the way to the baseline with little effort so to beat them you need all the shots in the book.

In my opinion if you don't have the ablilty to return a backhand from baseline to baseline you can't be an advanced player. Intermediate players can have very good forehand shots but on the backhand they'll fall short. That chart on the previous page showed this with the backhand clear/smash being the hardest shot in the book.

Tim H

I don't know, some people have a naturally good backhand, whereas even some advanced players would struggle to clear backhand the full length of he court. I can do it, but depending on the situation, I may decide to play another shot. I don't really like playing backhand clears so I avoid it where possible (unless of course, it's the best shot to play).

I just don't think you can grade somebody on how well they play one shot.

Yonex? The only thing they have in mind is to sell more rackets.

How rude lol :rolleyes:... Well, that's the truth xD... Okay let's back to the topic screw Yonex lol.

I've seen some recreational players with pretty decent backhand. But they can still be lacking in other areas. In fact sometimes i feel that their backhand makes them lazier. They still can be and will be easily beaten by players who might be...fitter/smarter/having better footwork,but have almost no backhand clear in their game. In fact i've seen so many players with their backhand become their lazy-hand(even advanced players), and it becomes a bad habit. I think overhead can compensate for backhand clear. Just imagine playing a game with XXF. How many of us here can actually FORCE a backhand out of her?

Anyway i don't deny that backhand clear can help gauge a player's level but backhand clear ALONE definitely can't be used for classify them into grading bands

I've seen some recreational players with pretty decent backhand. But they can still be lacking in other areas. In fact sometimes i feel that their backhand makes them lazier. They still can be and will be easily beaten by players who might be...fitter/smarter/having better footwork,but have almost no backhand clear in their game. In fact i've seen so many players with their backhand become their lazy-hand(even advanced players), and it becomes a bad habit. I think overhead can compensate for backhand clear. Just imagine playing a game with XXF. How many of us here can actually FORCE a backhand out of her?

Anyway i don't deny that backhand clear can help gauge a player's level but backhand clear ALONE definitely can't be used for classify them into grading bands

My point exactly.

You can easily make up for a lack of a backhand clear if you want to and a round the head shot would probably be more powerful and accurate. This is the reason I play it where possible and the backhand clear when I have to.

I have to agree with you about the gauging level on the basis of one shot. Somebody could have a really rubbish smash but the rest of their game could be awesome. If you were grading them on their smash, they'd be weak, but their overall game would be very strong.

Maybe I should change my level of play in my profile to low intermediate now based on the various grading systems you guys posted.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/modious/BdmGuide.gif

I think a grading system based on something like this would be most appropriate. Perhaps not just a Y/N.

But perhaps each of these (techniques) should be assigned a value. So your grade will depend on how many of these techniques you're able to master.

This way, someone may actually suck at a few of these but excel in the rest to compensate, so may still be considered advanced or high-intermediate.

Any countries/clubs doing something like this? I think Malaysia don't have any such grading system (correct me if i'm wrong)

jk1980, I almost qualify as an expert (although I still think I'm far from being one ... too far). The only thing I couldn't do is a powerful backhand smash.

One effective way to group badminton players is whether it is their physical, technical, tactical or mental skills that are holding them back.

For physical skills, this would be someone extremely unathletic who would have difficulty hitting basic strokes without physical issues. This person would be classified as a pre-beginner, and would be best off taking a few exercise classes before moving ahead to something more challenging like badminton.

When technical skills are the limiting issue, the player would be beginner to intermediate. The key here is consistency. Can the player consistently play good shots without unforced errors? In singles, just keeping shots in against these players would be a good strategy, as mistakes will be made by them fairly frequently. You could separate this into two sub stages: beginner for the basic techniques (clear, drop, smash) and intermediate for the more advanced strokes (1/2 smash, slice, spin).

At the next level, the player is not likely to give you easy points by making mistakes unless you pressure them using good tactical play. This requires having a few "weapons" (e.g. good smash, deception, tactical awareness, etc) on top of a solid technical foundation. This group would be categorized as advanced.

At the highest level, it isn't court skills that are holding a player back, but rather it would be mental skills. These players have access to the best coaches, so what matters most not what skills they've learned by rather their ability to deliver in big competitions. You might categorize this group as elite.

I think a grading system based on something like this would be most appropriate. Perhaps not just a Y/N.

But perhaps each of these (techniques) should be assigned a value. So your grade will depend on how many of these techniques you're able to master.

This way, someone may actually suck at a few of these but excel in the rest to compensate, so may still be considered advanced or high-intermediate.

Any countries/clubs doing something like this? I think Malaysia don't have any such grading system (correct me if i'm wrong)

Not a bad idea, however, it comes down to the level of shots again. I could have a really terrible backhand (I don't, but my backhand isn't great either) but a really awesome forehand (again, I don't but my forehand is rather good ;) ). You might never be able to make me play a backhand but I'd get marked down for not having a strong backhand. I think you need to look at a player's overall game, not just their ability to play shots.

probably the most accurate way of defining your level is your international playing class, or if you haven't been ranked you should play with your friends (if you have ones :D) who have been ranked and compare your skills to theirs...
Beginner= E-class
Intermediate=D- to C- class
Advanced=B- to A-class
Professional= Pro

Beginner - Started to play badminton. Did not master any of the basic skill at all.
Just know how to hit the shuttle when if cross over the net. Miss hit is
normal. No plan at all.

Intermediate - Mastered some basic skill but not all. Play once or twice a week. Lacking in stamina, accuracy and court coverage. Able to beat beginner easily.
They can control the shuttle but lack power especially back hand and jumping smashes. Not deceptive enough and wrist work is lacking.

Advanced - Mastered all basic strokes and some advanced technique like foot work, jumping smashes, back hand smashes, good defences. Good court coverage with can beat intermediate players easily. Normally plays at least 3 - 4 times a week with extra physical training like weight training and endurance sports like running and jogging. They have got better stamina than intermediate and uses less energy due to their sense of court coverage and know how to conserve energy and control emotion. They don't brag about their skill. They just do the talking in court. They normally win some tournament at maybe state level but still not good enough to play professionally.

Professional - These are actually a bunch from the advance level but they actual earn a living playing badminton. They can be coach, players, or assistant coach. Some of these guys open shops / clinnic to teach and sell equipment. They know all the nitty gritty about the game. They actually make money from it...ha ha. Of course they are slightly better than advance because they contribute to the sport, these are the main man.

Grading a player by skills is very different to grading by tournaments category. A retired but unfit Zhao Jianhua would have the highest skills but he wouldn't survive one round in say an under-19 national championship in Malaysia. The same with Tan Aik Huang.
I believe in Malaysia all the badminton academies define badminton skills as stroke-making, apart from footwork, fitness, physical, agility ability.
It is therefore inappropriate to grade players by skills cateogy.

My children are aged 8 & 5. Both play badminton and the eldest holds his own at U11 tournaments. For him getting a medal is the best boost to his confidence. For me, it causes a problem when he doesn't win a medal as I need to boost his morale, usually saying that "he played well and remember you're the youngest in the age group and your time will come" etc etc. I notice the huge boost in confidence when my sons gain a new badge or certificate in the swimming lessons that they attend. There are 12 levels, each level has 1 lesson per week for 12 weeks and hopefully they move up to next level after each 12 week period.

My question is do any other coaches or Junior badminton Clubs use an award system of badges etc for continued development of their learners. I would be interested to know the format used to grade them. There were similar awards given by Ashaway and Karakal a few years ago, technical awards and skill awards but these weren't like a weekly assessment.

I don't know any badminton coaches that do that but it's certainly a good idea. Perhaps you could develop a system?

badminton isnt easy to grade because of the various skills involve,

i would say it all down to observation

It seems that sports such as karate, swimming, gymnastics have a system.
http://www.merit-badges.com/asp/default.asp

I will look into this a little more to develop a system. Getting the badges isn't a problem and could be a usefull source of funds for the club. Maybe time to go visit our local karate club, always wondered how they got their kids to stand and practice for hours! lol

It seems that sports such as karate, swimming, gymnastics have a system.
http://www.merit-badges.com/asp/default.asp

I will look into this a little more to develop a system. Getting the badges isn't a problem and could be a usefull source of funds for the club. Maybe time to go visit our local karate club, always wondered how they got their kids to stand and practice for hours! lol
That's because, when learning karate and other martial arts, there's always the unspoken promise of being able to beat up someone :D

Which kid doesn't want to be one up on another? ;)

In other sports like judo one can get a black belt 10th dan (the highest) and he keeps it for life. In badminton one can get an A level or even become a champion of a country for a year and after 10 years he can drop down to become a C grade.
I have a friend, not even in his late 30s, who used to play singles for Hong Kong, but who now considers himself to be down to B grade.
Some of you may know the owner of Luxis sports in Hong Kong, Ng Kai Si, who at his best was a C grade singles player but who might find it difficult to remain being a C.
In badminton one can reach an A grade and can then drop down to a D or E grade when his playing days are over. But a black belt 10th dan is always a black belt 10th dan.

Hi guys, I don't really know if I should post here or start a new thread, but I was just wondering what skill level I am at.

Reading from the previous posts, I'm thinking somewhere around intermediate, but some posts relegate me to beginner.

Anyway, I play around once or twice a week, around 1-3 hours each. I know it's quite short but I have a lot of school work that eats up my time. :D

I've been playing badminton seriously for about 3 months now. I guess i can make baseline clears well enough. Usually on the offensive side though (the clear that doesn't go very high but reaches the other side. Forehand by the way. I think I can do backhand clears as well but sometimes I get inconsistent (There are times that I just don't hit the shuttle).

I think I can smash a little, though I often notice that my smashes aren't steep enough. When I am in midcourt and I smash it reaches the opponent's midcourt to rearcourt and around 40% of the time they can return it. I've tried a little jump smashing for the heck of it, but only around 45% of the time do I hit it, and it's not refined enough to make it much better than my normal smash. So ultimately it's not that useful to me as it just lessens my time to recover.

I do like drop shots from midcourt and rear court, though it's still not perfect. I get to make the shuttle go where I want it (left side, right side) and near enough to the net, but sometimes it's too high that it's smashable and sometimes it just hits the net. It is, however, my most used shot as it makes my opponents run (especially after they return a baseline clear) and I guess it works 70% of the time.

I can also do a little net play, though it's weird that my cross court net shots are more consistent than net shots that I just try to get over the net.

Oh yeah, I think I don't have that much foot work (or is it court coverage) as I do run a lot. But it's weird that even against players that are much worse than me (usually my classmates), I still move more than they do. Perhaps I'm naturally hyper.

Well, there it goes, I've tried to describe my playing style in detail, hopefully I can get some answers from you badminton gods out there. :D
I really am confused on my level. :D

The best thing is to take a video of you playing serious, and then we'll critique and stuff. With words, it's kinda hard to imagine actually how good you are.

IMHO one part about grading how good you are is simply whether you can do all those techniques listed. That's for differentiating between beginner and intermediate.
After that it's a matter of consistency. That would fall under advanced or professional.

Having a reference table is certainly a good thing. At the club I am playing we have something similar and have a few categories. Like someone said, categories are only meaningful in a particular context but it serves its purpose. We have around 300 players at the club and in all honestly, categories are a necessity. With that many players the range of skills is pretty huge and it would get very boring for advanced players to play with someone that is just starting, the reverse is also true.

The best thing is to take a video of you playing serious, and then we'll critique and stuff. With words, it's kinda hard to imagine actually how good you are.

Just a thought....

If you do take a video, i think i would better to take it when you are playing a competitive game (rather than during practise). I've seen players who are great when practising but somehow the skills/strokes dont really translate when they are playing a competitive game.

Just a thought....

If you do take a video, i think i would better to take it when you are playing a competitive game (rather than during practise). I've seen players who are great when practising but somehow the skills/strokes dont really translate when they are playing a competitive game.



.
IMHO, it is because in competitions, tactics plays a much bigger role/function, more than just depending on production of strokes.

:):):)
.

Just a thought....

If you do take a video, i think i would better to take it when you are playing a competitive game (rather than during practise). I've seen players who are great when practising but somehow the skills/strokes dont really translate when they are playing a competitive game.
I agree with this. Because if you're doing drills you're not playing real badminton, you're just doing drills. If you wanna see how good you are, show it in a game, not in mundane exercises.

I'd like to have a system for grading my kids because some are definately better than others but then I need to find another coach to help me. With around 20 kids and 1 hour to coach it gets difficult to manage on your own. There is so much potential but no one to share the load at the coaching level.

This thread spurred me into making up a student profile & report booklet. I like this because the front page has all the students info and each page has a place for the date and includes 3 categories, 1) Skills development - Stroke play & footwork 2) Discipline - Listening & gamesmenship 3) Teamwork. The profile card will start broad and in the comments section I can then be more specific. Both parents and students will see the results. I'm doing this to monitor progress and to try and get the parents more involved. When parents get interested in their kids acheivements the kids should become more motivated. Because each semester is broken into 9 weeks and there are 4 semesters it allows me to make four good entries into their booklet.

Maybe others would like to comment on how something like this could be used to grade players. At least this is a start I guess.

Tim H

PS> I like the badges idea

I'd like to have a system for grading my kids because some are definately better than others but then I need to find another coach to help me. With around 20 kids and 1 hour to coach it gets difficult to manage on your own. There is so much potential but no one to share the load at the coaching level.

This thread spurred me into making up a student profile & report booklet. I like this because the front page has all the students info and each page has a place for the date and includes 3 categories, 1) Skills development - Stroke play & footwork 2) Discipline - Listening & gamesmenship 3) Teamwork. The profile card will start broad and in the comments section I can then be more specific. Both parents and students will see the results. I'm doing this to monitor progress and to try and get the parents more involved. When parents get interested in their kids acheivements the kids should become more motivated. Because each semester is broken into 9 weeks and there are 4 semesters it allows me to make four good entries into their booklet.

Maybe others would like to comment on how something like this could be used to grade players. At least this is a start I guess.

Tim H

PS> I like the badges idea

For a start I think you have too many kids to handle in just an hour. Certainly you must be able to manage your time very effectively but if we just divide 60 minutes by 20 kids, it works out to barely 3 minutes per kid for personal attention. :D

But of course you will do group work for a longer period. Still if you have another hour to coach them and with an assistant, it will be much better for both the coach and the trainee.

For example, if you have to test each kid on the respective skills, it will take up all your time in one session.

And if you want to motivate them further with the suggested badge-award system, which I think is an excellent idea, you need to do double time perhaps.

Then perhaps you may want to make your session more fun by introducing music, dance (for footwork), videos (of your kids' in training) and competition. Now all these require a great deal of effort, planning and resources! :)

I'd like to have a system for grading my kids because some are definitely better than others but then I need to find another coach to help me. With around 20 kids and 1 hour to coach it gets difficult to manage on your own. There is so much potential but no one to share the load at the coaching level.

This thread spurred me into making up a student profile & report booklet. I like this because the front page has all the students info and each page has a place for the date and includes 3 categories,
1) Skills development - Stroke play & footwork
2) Discipline - Listening & gamesmanship
3) Teamwork.

The profile card will start broad and in the comments section I can then be more specific. Both parents and students will see the results. I'm doing this to monitor progress and to try and get the parents more involved. When parents get interested in their kids achievements the kids should become more motivated. Because each semester is broken into 9 weeks and there are 4 semesters it allows me to make four good entries into their booklet.

Maybe others would like to comment on how something like this could be used to grade players. At least this is a start I guess.

Tim H

PS> I like the badges idea



.
Timbuctoo ... You are luckier than me... to have just around 20 kids. :D:D:D

In one of the schools that I am coaching, we have 50 kids over 12 courts. All I can teach them is how to enjoy their Badminton.

I would never have time to give them students' profiles & grading reports.

:):):)
.

That's why I need help!! We are hopefully having an Indonesian player or maybe two of them (Elizabeth Latif & Rudy Gunawan) come to Darwin in March so I plan to run a clinic with them. They would make awesome coaches and give especially the young boys & girls someone to aspire to.

First session in Feb for my group will be a fitness assessment, kinda BFA military style. The kids do pushups, situps and a 2.4km run/jog or the beep test. I'll run the test again at the end of each semester to grade their fitness.

I have 2 or 3 kids from my current group that have awesome potential so I need a helper so I can divide my group in half and spend more time developing those that could be awesome. I know that sounds like I'm favouring a few but it's easier for a helper to run some easy drills with beginners while I focus more on the talented ones. Then there's the ones that try to push me to the limits of my patience.

Next question and maybe off topic, but how long would you put up with disruptive kids?? Their parents pay for the coaching but they're there to just muck about. They also distract those that want to get better.

Tim H

chris@ccc - 50 kids :eek: I guess I can't complain but it's not ideal is it. I guess it's because coaches are hard to come by in Australia for sports like badminton.

After watching 2 Indonesian coaches with 8 kids in Jakarta I was surprised. We don't do such a bad job considering we aren't that great at the sport here. We cover most of the important stuff and have to work much harder with all those kids.

I see badminton Australia is trying to put in place a certain standard of badminton coaching in each state by appointing head coaches to follow a curriculum. That will hopefully mean players with potential will be discovered all around the country and it will finally be less Melbourne centered. I wonder how they grade players?

We'd love to beat you Victorian's one day even though I'm a Victorian at heart.

Tim H

Does the number of years really count in playing badminton? I know some people who sound like they are around intermediate level and they have only been playing for about a year...

Does the number of years really count in playing badminton? I know some people who sound like they are around intermediate level and they have only been playing for about a year...



.
TNBRE ... Because Badminton is a sport requiring good eye-hand coordinations, it is not a surprise that many players coming from other sports such as Tennis, Table Tennis, Squash, etc... are picking up our Badminton rather quickly and with some ease. Perhaps, those people you have mentioned come from those sports.

Another thing that I have noticed is that new players to Badminton coming from running sports such as Soccer, Field Hokey, Athletics, etc... fit into our Singles games like a duck being thrown into a pond (in the court coverage, I mean). :):):)
.

I'd like to have a system for grading my kids because some are definately better than others but then I need to find another coach to help me. With around 20 kids and 1 hour to coach it gets difficult to manage on your own. There is so much potential but no one to share the load at the coaching level.

This thread spurred me into making up a student profile & report booklet. I like this because the front page has all the students info and each page has a place for the date and includes 3 categories, 1) Skills development - Stroke play & footwork 2) Discipline - Listening & gamesmenship 3) Teamwork. The profile card will start broad and in the comments section I can then be more specific. Both parents and students will see the results. I'm doing this to monitor progress and to try and get the parents more involved. When parents get interested in their kids acheivements the kids should become more motivated. Because each semester is broken into 9 weeks and there are 4 semesters it allows me to make four good entries into their booklet.

Maybe others would like to comment on how something like this could be used to grade players. At least this is a start I guess.

Tim H

PS> I like the badges idea


Now that Xmas and the New Year are out of the way I'll start looking into a Merit system. I understand your predicament also! I started coaching juniors 8 years ago, then began a Junior Club 2 years after due to the popularity and the need to attract grants for development. Some weeks there are 28 juniors competing for space on 5 courts. Thankfully one of the parents showed interest in coaching last year and now one or two of the older juniors are also assistant coaches. It takes time I know. Try not to beat yourself up about your effectiveness with such a large group, every little bit you do IS vitally important. There are times when I get home when I reflect on the session and I feel guilty that I didn't help everyone. The important thing is that the players are there trying and enjoying the session.

How would you guys rate high school varsity players female and male?

Like moderate or adequate schools in badminton, not really crappy schools.