View Full Version : theres nothing wrong w/badminton
wedgewenis
07-28-2002, 09:03 AM
i wish people would stop trying to change badminton
the game is great the way it is
changing the rules, court, shuttle, net, scoring
thats not going to suddenly increase tv coverage.. its not going to bring new people to the game- its definately not going to create new interest in north america
if the tv coverage is bad now.. how is changing the game itself going to fix the coverage.
there are tons of other sports that are less involved, less difficult, have an easier skill set, are alot less exciting to watch..and yet they are on tv, popular etc.
Tennis wasn't always on TV ..and even when it was it wasn't always popular.. Tennis now still has ratings problems on some networks in the US.. you dont see them talking about changing their rules, they stick to the rules of the game becuase they have faith in the game the way it is... they have strong organizations that believe in what they are doing. They are passionate about spreading tennis popularity... i haven't met anyone in my province passionate about spreading badminton popularity... mabye there are a few but i haven't met them.
other sports like curling & bowling, darts, pool they are on TV here in Canada and i have No interest in ever watching any of them .. they are on tv more because of the strength of their organizations and their ability to promote the game and get sponsors and fight for tv coverage etc.
its also about image; the image of the sport
most people still see badminton as a lawn game...
even those that play on real courts,, alot of them dont even know the rules or the skills .. they play pattycake w/the shuttle for 30 mins then leave.. becuase its not challenging... that type of play gets old fast!
alot of people start badminton becuase its easy
but nobody stays in badminton becuase its easy
they stay becuase its hard - becuase there are alot of skills to master and becuase being able to beat better players is a challenge.
there are tons of people in this country who play badminton in some form of very low level badminton.. but still .. a person willing to pickup a raquet and pan handle for 20 mins is more likely to become the next national champion than a person w/a total aversion to the activity alltogether.. if a person sucks totally but likes the activity.. then that is a person who could potentially become at the very least a decent club level player
untill people start to understand why badminton isnt' popular.. or the real reasons its not on Tv ..and address them - badminton popularity will not grow
you my friend...
took the words right out of my mouth...
YOU THIEF!
:D
jayes
07-28-2002, 10:16 AM
Yes, very true there is nothing wrong with badminton. Depending on where a person is, badminton may or may not be popular. From where I grew up (early life), badminton need not be advertised. People in the neighborhood know it, play it, or watch it (either live or on TV). In North America, however, I see that it is not as popular.
At the grassroot level, though, we can also help towards badminton popularity or exposure. As an example, at work, during my chit-chat with co-workers, sports will sometime come up. When my turn comes, I always introduce badminton. Some of them are quite aware of what badminton is and had played it recreationally before (backyard, picnic, etc.). I always invite them to play in the gym that I frequent. Some had taken up to my offer, but most will decline. However, many have changed from their initial-negative perception.
UkPlayer
07-28-2002, 10:50 AM
i agree, leave the beautiful game alone
Well said, wedgewenis.
I don't think the game itself should be altered. It should be the way it is presented that needs to be changed.
Phil
wedgewenis
07-28-2002, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by |R|S
you my friend...
took the words right out of my mouth...
YOU THIEF!
:D
hehe yea i know .. i read somewhere on another forum people already saying some of the things i mentioned
but its nice to see other people who agree
its just anoying .. hearing all this talk about what needs to be changed, when its just as good or better than alot of other popular sports.
:0
wedgewenis
07-28-2002, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Phil
I don't think the game itself should be altered. It should be the way it is presented that needs to be changed.
Phil
exactly
UkPlayer
07-28-2002, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by Phil
Well said, wedgewenis.
I don't think the game itself should be altered. It should be the way it is presented that needs to be changed.
Phil
Phil,
Is there room for another racket sport?
The public appear to like team sports.
Tennis is the only racket sport that has really broken the mould.
Is it due to presentation or is there simply no room for badminton?
wedgewenis
07-28-2002, 09:08 PM
theres room for badminton
it just has to be on tv alot
i dont think any average person is going to get all excited about badminton when its shown perhaps once every 4 years for 2 mins during the olympics
i heard about badminton on a local channel (swiss open or soemthign) and i marked it on my calendar a month in advance.
but the average person isnt' going to know when its on much less rememeber when
if a sport is on all the time however (especially if its kewl) it will eventually pick up appreciation
the more its on the better chance that teh people who will appreciate get a chance to see it.
Originally posted by UkPlayer
Phil,
Is there room for another racket sport?
The public appear to like team sports.
Tennis is the only racket sport that has really broken the mould.
Is it due to presentation or is there simply no room for badminton?
People like team sports such as American Football, Basketball, and Baseball because those sports have many statistics. (touchdowns, free throws, home runs, etc.) People have fun keeping track of them. Because there are statistics, there are records. People get excited when a record is close to getting broken. This equals publicity.
There aren't any statistics in badminton.
As for tennis, maybe it is because North Americans do well in tennis. The asian countries except for a few European dominate badminton.
Phil
wedgewenis
07-29-2002, 07:56 PM
why can't badminton have statistics?
it easily could.. at least at easy as in tennis
Originally posted by wedgewenis
why can't badminton have statistics?
it easily could.. at least at easy as in tennis
What statistics could there be? I certainly can't think of any.
Serve percentage? Smash percentage? All those values would be almost the same due to the professionalism.
Does tennis have statistics? I didn't know. I know they keep track of some things like serve speed, aces, etc. Perhaps badminton smashes? But not many places have equipment to keep track of the speeds.
Phil
wedgewenis
07-30-2002, 11:04 PM
you could have just as many statistics as in tennis.. i dunno what the hell u guys are talking about.. the only difference between the statistics of both sports is that in tennis the serve statistics are far more important.
badminton statistics
-------------------------
- percentage of unforced errors
- # of winners hit
- points won on smash
- points won on drops
- smash speed (fastest smash of the match)
- service errors?
- # of short clears or poor lifts
- distance traveled
- court coverage (they use lasers or infared in tennis to show court coverage)
when they dispay it it will show higher traffic areas in a darker color .. so like along the sideline there isnt' any movement but alot alog the baseline and at the net if you have a player like sampras ITS REALLY KEWL!
i'm sure u could have many more.. if u were creative with it
the only statistics i see in tennis are
- first serve percentage
- #of aces hit
- #of winners hit
thats mainly it...
soemtimes you see
#of break points won
# of chances to break
but aside from that ............
Originally posted by wedgewenis
- # of short clears or poor lifts
- distance traveled
How would you determine short clears or poor lifts? That is kind of subjective. Same with distance travelled. Special equipment would have to be made to measure it accurately.
Originally posted by wedgewenis
- court coverage (they use lasers or infared in tennis to show court coverage)
when they dispay it it will show higher traffic areas in a darker color .. so like along the sideline there isnt' any movement but alot alog the baseline and at the net if you have a player like sampras ITS REALLY KEWL!
Perhaps you find it REALLY KEWL :) , but in badminton, unlike tennis, movement covers all areas of the court. Therefore the areas would all be around the same level.
Originally posted by wedgewenis
i'm sure u could have many more.. if u were creative with it
Like what? How many times the player wipes their sleeve on their forehead to get rid of sweat? Which sleeve they use more?
Phil
Joanne
08-02-2002, 09:09 AM
I don't agree with the new system. The game is over in 5 minutes!
wedgewenis
08-02-2002, 09:55 PM
Like what? How many times the player wipes their sleeve on their forehead to get rid of sweat? Which sleeve they use more?
---------
fine those i've stated are it.. you can't possibly think of any more statistics
what difference does it make..
i've just stated as many things to keep track of as would be in tennis
i proved my point, i rest my case.
badrad
08-03-2002, 12:22 AM
you need someone who will be responsible for keeping track of these things. it's hard enough getting officials and commentary coverage. the sport is not commercial enough here for all the analysts that bother with keeping stats. currently it's a coaches tool, but each coach has their own recording method.
UkPlayer
08-03-2002, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by wedgewenis
badminton statistics
-------------------------
- percentage of unforced errors
- # of winners hit
- points won on smash
- points won on drops
- smash speed (fastest smash of the match)
I like these. You can also have % of points won on service.
wedgewenis
08-03-2002, 02:24 PM
the sport is not commercial enough here for all the analysts that bother with keeping stats. currently it's a coaches tool, but each coach has their own recording method
--------------
that just seems lazy too me.. i mean if your going to pay 2 people to comentate an event you could at least get one of them to mark some stats on a page
i dont think thats asking too much :0
wedgewenis
08-03-2002, 02:28 PM
i think if anything the commentators have to approach the sport differently
they have to talk about the game taking into account the people who aren't aquainted w/it ..the people who dont know a clear from a dropshot.
.. but still give enough detailed info as to keep more knowledgeable viewers interested.
sergesa
08-03-2002, 03:07 PM
The problem with badminton on TV is NOT about image,
it is about money... at least, in North America.
Soccer has the same problem... Here's how it works:
ALL the sports shown on TV in N.A. are interrupted
to allow the TV station to pollute the audience
with commercials. You name it: football, hockey,
tennis, basketball.
Baseball escapes this because of it's per inning structure,
allowing for short breaks between non-stop action of
about 10 minutes [or less!].
Think about tennis: 2 x 4 minute games followed 120 to 180 seconds
interruptions...
A badminton match, on the other hand, cannot be interrupted.
They tried their best [their worst?] to reduce the times of
the matches with 7 points, hoping a 20 to 25 minute per game
format would propel the sport to the heaven of commercial TV
and,thus money.
But you can't prostitute our sport so easily. The wished 20 minutes
became unsellable 30 minutes... Even then, 20 minutes is much too
long for the happetite of the sharks... This was doomed to faillure
from the beginning.
A few 7point matches were shown in April on CBC. Matches? What am
I saying? POINTS! The matches had been recorded and the only
complete games I saw were 7-0 or 7-1 mis-atches...
As for the rest on the program... It often started around 4-2 ot 3-3.
Whatever you come up with, badminton will never make it to TV in
North America... unless you modify the rules to the point where
it won't be badminton anymore...
Hey, people, we escaped the 7 point hell [badminton in disguise] by
a very narrow margin.
Badminton lost something when it scrapped the 13-13 tie.
We were lucky the 7 didn't make it.
This time.
wedgewenis
08-03-2002, 04:01 PM
i dont think changing the scoring is sucha terrible thing if you trade that w/great TV coverage and popularity
the only problem i have is people making the sport easier.. i think badminton match should be longer if anything .. rather than shorter
Tennis Match average is like 4 hours for a mens match
Badminton is like 45 mins or less average
i like the idea that badminton is a tough sport.. which it is.. untill you start making it shorter and w/more breaks
you dont even have to change the scoring to have commercial breaks.. you can give players a rest period or change of ends in order to allow this
NHL hockey games have moments specifically for commercials
i like watching Tennis becuase its focused on the individuals.. its like boxing in this way.. especially durring the US Open when they have Night matches .. the night matches are treated almost like main events, rather than just another match.
even though i think badminton action is more exciting.. they could definately learn alot from the way they cover tennis in the US.
sergesa
08-03-2002, 05:45 PM
Does badminton really need TV and more popularity?
I don't think so.
Not at the expense of changing the scoring system and thus
the spirit of the sport.
The only thing that was ever modified for tennis in the last
100 years was tie-breakers. Some proposed to 'shorten' games
by allowing no let on service nets and end the deuce-ad
serenade and simply finish at 50...
NOBODY bought into that... Because it would change the
nature of the game of tennis.
Football has always been 4 15-minute quarters. 4-5 hours
9 inning [especially American Ligue...] baseball games have
NEVER been shortened to 7 innings... Because it would change
the spirit of the game.
The mixed-doubles and ladies' doubles have been, sadly, shortened
to 11 points... For what gain?
This is all BS.
In Asian countries, during the Olympics, they get badminton
on TV 6-8-12 hours a day. In Canada and US: ZERO second.
Do Malaysian TV stations have a problem with badminton?
I don't think so.
The problem is that some people believe that the Universe
revolves around the United States and that anything that
does not have importance over there has no value...
This is all BS.
Badminton is a great sport.
Don't sell it to the hypocrites.
badrad
08-03-2002, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by wedgewenis
that just seems lazy too me.. i mean if your going to pay 2 people to comentate an event you could at least get one of them to mark some stats on a page
i dont think thats asking too much :0
that's just for the event they are showing.
to keep accurate stats, you keep them for every match and every player, the events they don't broadcast. think one commentator to do this work is enough?
wedgewenis
08-03-2002, 09:53 PM
i guess not if its that important
LazyBuddy
11-06-2002, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by sergesa
The problem with badminton on TV is NOT about image,
it is about money... at least, in North America.
Soccer has the same problem... Here's how it works:
ALL the sports shown on TV in N.A. are interrupted
to allow the TV station to pollute the audience
with commercials. You name it: football, hockey,
tennis, basketball.
Baseball escapes this because of it's per inning structure,
allowing for short breaks between non-stop action of
about 10 minutes [or less!].
Think about tennis: 2 x 4 minute games followed 120 to 180 seconds
interruptions...
A badminton match, on the other hand, cannot be interrupted.
They tried their best [their worst?] to reduce the times of
the matches with 7 points, hoping a 20 to 25 minute per game
format would propel the sport to the heaven of commercial TV
and,thus money.
But you can't prostitute our sport so easily. The wished 20 minutes
became unsellable 30 minutes... Even then, 20 minutes is much too
long for the happetite of the sharks... This was doomed to faillure
from the beginning.
A few 7point matches were shown in April on CBC. Matches? What am
I saying? POINTS! The matches had been recorded and the only
complete games I saw were 7-0 or 7-1 mis-atches...
As for the rest on the program... It often started around 4-2 ot 3-3.
Whatever you come up with, badminton will never make it to TV in
North America... unless you modify the rules to the point where
it won't be badminton anymore...
Hey, people, we escaped the 7 point hell [badminton in disguise] by
a very narrow margin.
Badminton lost something when it scrapped the 13-13 tie.
We were lucky the 7 didn't make it.
This time.
Not quite agree.
Tennis match can't be "interrupted" either. You can very easily miss a good shot or an unbelievable save due to commercials. However, why tennis still get showed in major networks?
Badminton is the same thing, depend on ppl care about the game as overall, or just care about a particular play. (most game do last more than 5 min or so). If ppl care about the game, just enjoy it.
Therefoer, I think "no badminton on TV due to interruption, or commercial" is just cheap excuses from ppl who don't care about this sport. At least, taped games in non-prime time can solve the "interruption problem" perfectly. Good tennis matches can be taped and showed at late time, why can't badminton do the same?
Just a simple reason - they don't care.
sergesa
11-06-2002, 12:59 PM
Why don't they care?
They don't care because it doesn't pay.
Why does it not pay?
Ultimately, the TV stations will have to show LIVE
action of Badminton matches at the international level.
North America seems to be the only place in the World
not interested in showing badminton. More: on a 6 billion
people planet devoted to Soccer, North America in the
ONLY place where it is a failure.
Why?
During the 2000 Sydney Olympics, there were ZERO minutes
of Badminton coverage.
How much was there in Europe and Asia?
Btw, Badminton is the most praticed racket sport in Canada.
Not Tennis.
Badminton.
I don't think there was much coverage of badminton in Europe either, from what I've read on other websites. Will our friends in that part of the world care to comment? Mag?
Basically, it's not just N America that's the problem - I don't think Singapore shows a lot of badminton either. And we're a Southeast Asian country, surrounded by two great badminton nations. So we aren't great at the sport (minus the legendary Wong Peng Soon) but I'm pretty sure we aren't exactly fans of American football or Formula 1 either. That's the stuff they usually show on the cable channels and StarSports has been a disappointment of late, broadcasting all those ridiculous (IMHO) competitions that I don't even suppose anyone will watch!
Btw, if you can read Chinese (sorry I do not mean to insult your intelligence), try surfing the Chinabadminton site. I have read on the forum that badminton matches are sometimes not telecasted or cut off halfway for some other program. In China too...
Btw, USA did pretty well in this year's World Cup, no?
bigredlemon
11-10-2002, 01:49 AM
why is tennis so popular? I'd say it's has a lot to do with Anna Kourniva, the Venus sisters, Pete Sampras, etc.
Compare with the ladies and gents of badminton. There you go. Image problem #2. And by far the biggest draw back IMHO. Remeber the huge amount of media coverage the USA Soccer team got when one of the gals threw off her jeresy after the match??? Maybe they should do that in badminton :D
coops241180
11-10-2002, 08:00 AM
How's about this for a reason to have more badders on TV in Europe especially:
If you compare how well British players do in tennis tournaments with how well british players do in badminton tournaments i think we can all see that more badders players perform. this can be applied across the board - how many good Danish tennis players are there? there are loads of good danish badders players. All the tennis televison commentators complain that not enough young players come into the game at the grass roots level - it's because the pressure to win and make big money is on from the youngest age. So they choose badminton! this gives it a bad image. but still badminton is the fastest and most popular racquet sport in Britain! If only the All England was televised as Wimbledon is. This would be the greatest lift for the reputation of badminton and it would show that british badminton is somewhere that it hasn't been before. and with this telelvisation would come increased sponsorship for players who could then spend more time training because they would be recognised and paid as professional athletes.
Neil
IMHO, it's like a vicious cycle. Not enough network coverage because they don't think there is enough interest, and not enough interest because no network coverage.
bigredlemon
11-10-2002, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by jwu
IMHO, it's like a vicious cycle. Not enough network coverage because they don't think there is enough interest, and not enough interest because no network coverage.
What about the XFL? millions of dollars of advertising and no one watched it anyway. I'm sure the cycle you mention is important, but it can only account for short term factors. If badminton is better suited for TV than other sports, it'll eventually be shown more often than them. The only thing we can do that will have a immediate response is if
- some celebrity/president/etc becomes a badminton fanatic and rants about it everywhere, likeCharlton Heston and the NRA
- letter writing campaign
- Country does well in an important tournament (often)
- Badminton gets an icon (Like Anna K for tennis)
Firstly.. Badminton is not on TV.. in North America .. in my opinion is that we are not good at it... I mean Basketball, Hockey, Tennis,.. and etc.. North America are at least competitive wif the other countries. In badminton.. Asian countries dominate.. and thats why they have Badminton on TV all the time..
I agree that we should get more TV coverage on Badminton... so people see the real side of the game, NOT SOME SPORT WHERE ANYBODY CAN PICK UP A PIECE OF METAL AND PLAY!!! Also.. no offence to the 1 star tourneys.. but I think if we only get Badminton occasionally I think we should show like a 5 or 6 star tournament...I think Japan Open??? around there...
ya.. WTSN does give quite a bit of badminton coverage compare to the other channels.. (only events with Womens though)
last suggestion is that North America gets a channel to show badminton.. but we have to pay for it of course.. like all the other channels similar to NHLTV or something we can call it BAD or something..
Badminton is a sport in which the main thing (hopefully) is the players and the game, mostly run by enthusiasts or players
Football, tennis are businesses in which revolve firstly around money, mostly run by big businessmen.
sergesa
11-11-2002, 10:46 AM
Keep in mind the following: I live in the Montreal region with a couple of sports' channels.
I usually watch RDS (Réseau des Sports).
During the last year, they have covered the following sports: Athlétism, Auto
Racing, Automobile Rallye , Avant-Match, Aviation, Baseball, Basketball,
Bobsleigh, Bodybuilding, Bowling, Boxing, Camping, Canoe/Kayak, Crosse, Curling,
Cycling, Darts, Diving, Dog Competitions, Extreme Fighting, Fencing, Figure
Skating, Foot Racing, Football, Golf, Gymnastic, Handball, Hockey, Horse Riding,
Hunting/Fishing, Karting, Kickboxing, Martial Arts, Mini-Putt, Motocross,
Motocycling, Mountain Biking, Outdoor Life, Pétanque, Rodeo, Roller Hockey,
Rugby, Sailing, Shooting, Skuba, Skying, Snooker/Pool, Snowboarding,
Snowmobiling, Soccer, Speed Skating, Strong Men, Surfing, Swimming, Tennis,
Triathlon, Volleyball, Water Skiing, Waterpolo, Windsurfing, Wrestling.
Still, ZERO minutes of Badminton.
Ah! And how silly of me, I forgot Ping Pong. Ping Pong is regularly shown on this
channel. Badminton? Never!
I can understand that the Speedo company is behind the Swimming programs. Who's
behind Ping Pong?
Well the vicious cycle I speak of refers to the amount of US players being good at the sport. If no one knows about badminton, no one is gonna train for badminton, and therefore they won't be good at the sport, and therefore no coverage in the states because of the lack of interest. It just goes back and forth.
I don't know how we can enlighten people of the sport of badminton, sometime I just feel people are really close-minded here in the states.
LazyBuddy
11-11-2002, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by jwu
I don't know how we can enlighten people of the sport of badminton, sometime I just feel people are really close-minded here in the states.
Actually, I think they are very "open minded", but only to profitable ones.
Look at the fact that high school grad. rushing for NBA and MLB, which can make them to be millionaire in 2 sec.
Every sport can generate $$$ and make young kids to be a "Star" can draw waves of ppl to participate. Look at basketball, baseball, tennis, golf, etc. Even gymnastics, figure skating, swimming become a lot of ppl's top choices.
The good thing is, more and more ppl do realized the existence of badminton. Especially in large cities (a lot of these cities have tons of immigrants as well), badminton population did grow in recent 10 years or so...
I think we are moving in that direction, however, just need to wait for # of yrs. (ex: southern states accept hockey in the cities, after Wayne Greytzky went to LA)
Well LB, what I meant by close-minded is that if you mention sports, NBA, MLB, NFL, NHL, comes to mind. People here scoff at the notion of badminton, rugby, soccer, and other sports less played here. Why is it less-played? Because if you play it, you will be laughed at by the close-minded majority out there. I went through high school ridiculed by all my peers for playing badminton, so I guess in a way I am quite bitter about the subject. :mad:
People have already mentioned the following catalysts that could bring about the upstart of badminton interest:
1) US starts doing well in badminton. I cannot see this happening anytime soon because all the youth atheletes are turned to basketball, baseball, football, etc.
2) Personality such as Anna K. of tennis for badminton. Well, Camilla Martin? She's got the look and more talent than Anna will ever have.
3) Wouldn't it be great if Yonex could create their own network of badminton coverage? I mean they are badminton's biggest company and sponsor. They might be able to setup such a feat.
bigredlemon
11-11-2002, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by jwu
3) Wouldn't it be great if Yonex could create their own network of badminton coverage? I mean they are badminton's biggest company and sponsor. They might be able to setup such a feat. Yonex TV? That could work.
The CRTC (aka FTC for Canada) is handing out channel licences like cheap cigars these days. (do we really need an Animal channel? Science News channel?)
More plausibly, they should create a channel for Asians, instead just rebroadcasting the four CCTV channels.
bigredlemon
11-11-2002, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by jwu
2) Personality such as Anna K. of tennis for badminton. Well, Camilla Martin? She's got the look and more talent than Anna will ever have.
I know most of the people here think Camilla is good looking, so i'll probably get flammed a lot for saying this...
um... no!
Compare
http://badmintonplayer.com/Players/Camilla%20Martin/CM_01_lrg.jpg
with
http://www.kournikova.com/newshots/as/pic104.jpg
These are just the first pix I found. Camilla looks old enough to be her mom! (slight exaggeration)
I highly doubt Camilla would have as much success as Anna K in the image department. (People watching Anna aren't there for the Tennis.)
Lefty
11-11-2002, 03:37 PM
I think there is nothing wrong with the badminton game.
It's already the 2nd most popular game right after soccer.
The reason why the prize money being so small is because it's not popluar in a RICH country.
Just look at U.S. Open Tennis. First place single, regardless male or female, wins $900,000 USD. It is possible because it is a popular sport here in US. Basketball and football player also makes a lot because it's popular in RICH country such as US and Europe.
If one day Indonesia and China become the absolute dominating world economic power (China is on its way), we will definitely see big sporting company like Nike, Reebok and Adidas start to sponsor the good player with big money and see big racquet company like Wilson, Prince, Head to invest tons of money into badminton racket. Right now the Yonex badminton racket cost just as much as a tennis racket, if they sell the same amount, I'm sure other company will want a piece of the pie.
Nothing is wrong with badminton, just need to make it popular in rich countries.
LazyBuddy
11-11-2002, 05:04 PM
[i]
These are just the first pix I found. Camilla looks old enough to be her mom! (slight exaggeration)
I highly doubt Camilla would have as much success as Anna K in the image department. (People watching Anna aren't there for the Tennis.) [/B]
Well, it's not such a fair comparison. Consider CM is 28 or 29, and AK is just making 20s.
Plus, badminton and tennis is not beauty pegeant. I agree that some "model looking" players will certain help the popularity of the game. However, I never consider this as a major issue.
Lefty has a good point and one that wasn't pointed out before!
however, i agree only on a slightly different argument when it comes to money.
the weath of a country is important, however, i am not sure whether that has to do with the prize money or not. higher prize money will only attract more people to play badminton professionally. however, this is still a very number. tennis is more popular than badminton in the US, i doubt any of the weekend players are playing because they think they will eventually get a share of the $900k prize money of the US Open.
however, wealth in different ways does help. when a country has enough wealth and that the sport is popular, businessmen will see the opportunity in promoting the sport. eg. Yonex will spend more money advertising, thus increasing awareness. or there will be more televised matches, so the tv network will get good money from commercial.
it is a chicken and egg problem. without the popularity, no one will spend a lot of time nor energy promoting the sport; without anyone spending time or energy promoting the sport, badminton will never be popular.
we have to find a way to break this loop.
sergesa
11-11-2002, 05:26 PM
I'd vote for the old American WASP approach: too much
Asian types for their taste in badminton... Not enough
Caucasians.
Sounds silly. Unfortunately that may be the simple explanation.
bigredlemon
11-11-2002, 10:43 PM
I think volleyball is very popular here (N America), or at least more popular than badminton, yet I think it gets less coverage.
Why? I know I said image problem before so i'll put a hold on that. Volleyball certainy has no image problem. People think of it as a "real" sport, and beach volley ball is certainy like a beauty pagent sometimes.
I think its not as popular for the same reason as badminton, becausse it is no accessible. Its easy to play bball if you want. How many average-joe-schmo types are willing to shell out a couple hundred bucks to play badminton for a year? I don't think many would.
bigredlemon
11-11-2002, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by sergesa
I'd vote for the old American WASP approach: too much
Asian types for their taste in badminton... Not enough
Caucasians.
If it weren't for badminton then i'd never see any asian people :o
The money in both football and tennis does not come from the actual sport/participation.
In football money comes from merchandise associated with the clubs, from TV deals for the clubs, sponsorship because of the perceived influence this has on the audience.
In tennis the players who make money are the ones who are famous, who are celebrities, not necessarily by success, again this comes from TV money and sponsorship.
Tennis is perceived to be a sport of wealthier people so many up market brands look to associate.
Badminton players spend their money on courts, on shuttles, some on rackets/clothing, but little of this is retained in the sport.
TV exposure comes with success, until an english/german/usa player is successful and famous there will be little coverage.
Originally posted by bigredlemon
I think its not as popular for the same reason as badminton, becausse it is no accessible. Its easy to play bball if you want. How many average-joe-schmo types are willing to shell out a couple hundred bucks to play badminton for a year? I don't think many would.
Have to agree with the above point. Unless you have some special attachment to badminton, it is not exactly a sport someone would just go and try since it really isn't that easy. Where to play can be a pain to find. Playing outdoor is just no good, so you need a indoor facility with high ceiling, not many of those around except clubs and school gyms where high prices will be paid sometime. Right now a lot of the community centers around me are starting badminton clubs one night a week, but most people there are like the lawn-badminton type of people. Guess you really can't complain since at least the awareness of the sport is increasing.
Originally posted by bigredlemon
I highly doubt Camilla would have as much success as Anna K in the image department. (People watching Anna aren't there for the Tennis.)
Yeah it really isn't much of a comparison but it's the closest badminton can get :D . Well, look in the hottest female player thread and you can do other comparisons. Well anyway, I don't think badminton really needs someone like Anna K. anyway, it doesn't draw attention to the sport, just to her.
As for my other point earlier about the Yonex TV idea, it seems so plausible that it's quite odd to think that I would be the first to think of it. Does anyone know if Yonex or anybody else has actually attempt this? Knowing the popularity of badminton in asia, it seems entirely feasible to do something like this there.
Originally posted by bigredlemon
I think volleyball is very popular here (N America), or at least more popular than badminton, yet I think it gets less coverage.
Why? I know I said image problem before so i'll put a hold on that. Volleyball certainy has no image problem. People think of it as a "real" sport, and beach volley ball is certainy like a beauty pagent sometimes.
I think its not as popular for the same reason as badminton, becausse it is no accessible. Its easy to play bball if you want. How many average-joe-schmo types are willing to shell out a couple hundred bucks to play badminton for a year? I don't think many would.
volleyball is definitely more popular than badminton, at least in the US, volleyball is a varsity sport and played by most universities. the same cannot be said for badminton.
also, on the opposite end of jwu's argument, it is much easier to play volleyball, all you need is a piece of lawn, a ball and a net. outdoor or indoor doesn't matter. we see volleyball being played in a lot of parks and beaches all around here in the US.
bigredlemon
11-12-2002, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by kwun
volleyball is definitely more popular than badminton, at least in the US, volleyball is a varsity sport and played by most universities. the same cannot be said for badminton.
also, on the opposite end of jwu's argument, it is much easier to play volleyball, all you need is a piece of lawn, a ball and a net. outdoor or indoor doesn't matter. we see volleyball being played in a lot of parks and beaches all around here in the US.
You have beaches?? Keep forgetting not everyone lives canada :p
Xuser
11-13-2002, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by sergesa
The problem with badminton on TV is NOT about image,
it is about money... at least, in North America.
This time.
Right on! In North America, every sports here is about $$$. They are too commercialize here. Football, baseball are not sports anymore. They are franchises. If there is money in badminton here, you will see more coverage on TV and more people playing.
Maybe more *** in badminton might help :rolleyes:
money helps with everything, but money goes where interests goes, and interests goes wher money goes. It's a cycle badminton hasn't been able to break into. Just need to find a spark to light this up. :(
May or may not be the case... China is on the way to becoming an economy power but it also wants to excel in the big sports like soccer rather than always dominating in the so-called Asian sports eg. pingpong and badminton. Note the great hoohar in China when they made the World Cup for the first time in (?) yrs... also, I read on the Chinabadminton forum that CCTV wld rather show soccer than badminton when there is a time conflict. Must admit I was pretty surprised to find that out.
If one day Indonesia and China become the absolute dominating world economic power (China is on its way), we will definitely see big sporting company like Nike, Reebok and Adidas start to sponsor the good player with big money and see big racquet company like Wilson, Prince, Head to invest tons of money into badminton racket.
Btw, second para of previous msg was quoted.
nSmash
02-26-2003, 02:33 PM
I just thought of something to add.
North Americans have a very 'outdoor' culture. You can even find
tanning salons everywhere so you can look like you've been outdoors
even if you weren't. When playing real badminton, we can't see the sun.
If we could, we wouldn't see the shuttle. On the contrary, in Asia,
a fair complexion is often considered better-looking, hence people
don't have a problem with the indoors.
While the above is not the only reason, and some may argue that it
may not be a big reason, to me it's just one of the straws that helped
to break the camel's back.
Xuser
02-26-2003, 03:24 PM
Actually, badminton can be played outdoors and you can still see the bird. I grew up playing badminton outdoors most of the time (provided there is not huge wind). Just tie the net between two well placed trees and there you go :D
Of course playing outdoor is not the same.
nSmash
02-26-2003, 03:33 PM
Well I did specifically refer to "real badminton".
bigredlemon
02-26-2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Adel
May or may not be the case... China is on the way to becoming an economy power but it also wants to excel in the big sports like soccer rather than always dominating in the so-called Asian sports eg. pingpong and badminton. Note the great hoohar in China when they made the World Cup for the first time in (?) yrs... also, I read on the Chinabadminton forum that CCTV wld rather show soccer than badminton when there is a time conflict. Must admit I was pretty surprised to find that out.
I think Soccer has always been more popular in China than badminton. From as far back as I could remember, if there was a lot of people gathered around the TV, it was either soccer or a movie. People just seem to get excited easily about soccer. The announcers, the fans, everyone. Badminton seems interesting, kind of like gold. Even the announcers sound like they are commenting on golf or gymnastics, in that slow, stern, montone voice. Also, from the badminton that I have seen, the camera's position and angle almost never ever change. It's almost like watching it from a security camera or something. That gets boring fast(er).
sergesa
02-27-2003, 12:38 AM
:o Soccer VS Badminton
Soccer is the most popular [played] sport in the world,
followed by... badminton, in second place.
A question of arithmetics: soccer is popular
all over the planet. Badminton is most popular in
the Eastern hemisphere, which, BTW, must represent
at least half of the population of the world.
:rolleyes: Somehow, this whole debate may just be the
result of the distorted perspective of a minority: WE,
the people from the West.
badrad
02-27-2003, 01:48 AM
Can anyone ever remember either a movie made about badminton, or were badminton was even represented in a major movie?
almost every other sport has been made into movies in some shape or fashion, be it drama, action or comedy. I have yet to see one made of badminton.
I mean, even Forrest Gump highlighted his table tennis tournament in china, and his subsequent sponsorship. I've even seen a volleyball movie made about a set of transvestites team that won a major Thai tournament. And soccer even has a Steven Chow comedy made called Shoalin Soccer.
Would a badminton movie sell tickets?
bigredlemon
02-27-2003, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by badrad
And soccer even has a Steven Chow comedy made called Shoalin Soccer.
Is that what it's called? I have a clip of it and it's sooo funny! They fly-jump across the entire soccer field or leap 100 feet into the air? :D
As for badminton, I see it every now and then on some asian tv shows. Bob & Margret had a badminton episode (outdoors though!) Other than that nothing so far as i can remember.
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