what's with them

they play only games - never practice shots


they make tons of errors, misshits, weak serves, wide shots, long shots, fan on the shuttle, hit into the net ..


and they wonder why :0

i feel alot of the time like i'm the only one who knows that you can't get much better by just playing doubles one or 2 times a week.

if you take some time to work on the shots - clears, drops, smashes etc.

then its much less likely you will mess them up while playing


ofcourse if you only practice and nver play thats no good either.. you need to play also to get a feel for the court, and an eye for openings for attack.. by playing you perfect your court instincts..but if you never practice you won't be able to take advantage of a situation anyways becuase you'll mess up on many key shots.

thats my view anyways
what does everyone else think ?

Well if you're getting a bit frustrated about it (I assume this is what's prompted the post), I think you need to hang around with some more dedicated players, and if you haven't a coach find one if you can. This will serve as extra motivation.

I agree that your level of game will only improve rapidly if you do the correct practice regularly and keep yourself fit. This is common sense.

However it is also frustrating if you are surrounded by players who don't want to train as their attitude will rub off, so find people who are motivated.

Concentrate on your own training regime and block out the noise. You will become even better.

The fact that other players do not train is what will make you stand out... others will comment on your rapid improvement. Enjoy the rewards that will come as a result of you hard work.

I completely agree with you. I made lots of progress while I was taking a group lesson class, even though it was only one class per week (3 hours). My progress even amazed my friends since they could see that almost every week.

I feel my skills have stopped improving lately. I need to take lessons again, just for the purpose of practicing. Every time we gather to play, my friends do not like practicing. They just start playing games right away. They do not even let the beginners in the group to practice. Argh ...

Originally posted by UkPlayer
Well if you're getting a bit frustrated about it (I assume this is what's prompted the post), I think you need to hang around with some more dedicated players, and if you haven't a coach find one if you can. This will serve as extra motivation.

I agree that your level of game will only improve rapidly if you do the correct practice regularly and keep yourself fit. This is common sense.

However it is also frustrating if you are surrounded by players who don't want to train as their attitude will rub off, so find people who are motivated.

Concentrate on your own training regime and block out the noise. You will become even better.

The fact that other players do not train is what will make you stand out... others will comment on your rapid improvement. Enjoy the rewards that will come as a result of you hard work.

whoops I just saw you were talking about this from a coaches perspective, not a players perspective.

From that perspective again I agree with what you say. I think some people need incentive to train. Some kind of reward that they know they will get. It is often difficult to find motivated players due to the lack of finance and exposure in the game.

no u were right the first time

i'm speaking from a players' perspective


i dont actually teach badminton - i just Want to.


the problem is there aren't enough serious players around here

the ones that are serious, alot of them wont' play w/me becuase i'm not quite at their level - the friggin jerks!

the best players in my area play at a fairly exclusive club and dont often play w/anyone else

if there was A, B, & C levels

i'd be an entry level A player, i'm capable of beating any B level player.. i move as well as some A level players but am not quite strong enough or have the experience enough to beat them.

Yea, I totally I agree! You can really tell the difference if you practice! I only practice twice a week, one is for 3 hours, and the other is for 2. Before, when I played this adult who was very good, I could only get up to 3 points!!! But today when I played the same person, I managaed to get up to 9 points (in a 15 point game)! It was only a few months since the last match, but it really shows that practice pays off!

I had a hard time finding someone to practice with, then did find a couple of people. That helped a lot, but what helped more was one friend who had good training recently, is a pretty good player, and began training me. So, everyone who can't find people to practise with, keep looking. Good luck.

Hi, I have the same problem as you are wedge. No one wants to play with me too, so I have decided to join a club. But I have a few questions that I would like to ask you. And I am not here to start a fight.

Originally posted by wedgewenis

the problem is there aren't enough serious players around here


Well can you find a place that does?


the ones that are serious, alot of them wont' play w/me becuase i'm not quite at their level - the friggin jerks!


Then why don't you train more so you can beat them? I am surprised that you know that reason.


the best players in my area play at a fairly exclusive club and dont often play w/anyone else


Then why don't you join one of those clubs?


i'd be an entry level A player, i'm capable of beating any B level player.. i move as well as some A level players but am not quite strong enough or have the experience enough to beat them.

Then why don't you join more tournaments?

Well if you can answer most of these questions, then I will feel that those "good" players will play with you. Or if you don't want to do all those things, I suggest you goto some tournaments and WIN them to earn some respect from them, then I will assure that they will want to play you. Hope my .02 helps.

well calling players who don't play with you 'friggin jerks' won't help your cause any.

in most clubs many of the top players tend to keep to themselves, in training and in play. some of the coaches i know will be very selective with their students as to who they play. the reason from a competitive level is to be aware of your competitors, but do not reveal any secrets.

if people only want to play recreationally, then who cares if they train or not. so they suck when play, why should you care? if you don't like playing with these people - move on to other places. but as you are finding, you are the one who sucks when playing against the stronger players... they're probably saying the same thing about you...

I agree completely about the need for practice and drills. It's great when you can get one or two people about the same level as you who are willing to put in the work, AND if you have a place where you can do this.

I used to have that situation, but these days it's hard for me to find someone else willing to work at it like that, plus the places I can get to are so crowded that we have to play doubles games only. I end up having to work on strokes during a game situation, with little or no opportunity for any singles work.

Wedgewenis,
Practising is dependent on where you play. If you are a member of a dedicated badminton club, you will probably get more opportunity to practise (i.e. time slots where courts are available). BUT you will still need a friend/coach to feed you the birds and work on the various strokes and techniques.

If you play at a community centre or a shared gym, most likely you wouldn't have the court available for practises unless you book the courts. You got to realize that while there are those of us who are fanatics and would jump at every opportunity to play/practise, you also have a lot of players who play for the fun of it (an opportunity to get off the couch and get some exercise and the enjoyment of socializing).

Obviously, you are pretty keen on badminton from your various postings and I would suggest that the best approach is for you to join and sign up for training which would allow you the dedicated time needed to work on your various strokes and techniques.

I don't practise partly because I don't have the time to do so and usually work on my shots/techniques during games with weaker players. Not the ideal way of improving but that's all I can do at this moment.

Badrad is right in that calling the folks "jerks" would not help and if you can't show respect to all players, you can't expect them to show you respect. Enjoy the game by taking every opportunity to improve.

If you are playing against better players, mentally note how they play their shots and how they react to your shots. E.g. if you play a drop, recognize how they will play the return in comparison to how you would play the same shot if you were in their shoes.

If you are playing against weaker players, take the opportunity to work on your weakness. For example, I would not smash but instead play drops/clears and work on those plus my footwork. Oh, you can't be too obvious about it otherwise you will come across as being an arrogant jerk who thinks that he is too good to play with the weaker players (again, respect, respect, respect).

Good luck with your badminton.

G'day WWC,

Good post / response - I could not worded it any better myself! :)

You guys dont get what i'm saying

i can't join *one of those clubs*

they are jerks

if i went there they would REFUSE to play w/me


they would tell me they are warming up w/a pertner who wouldnt' show

they would tell me they have a game setup w/someone else who isnt' even there

they would tell me mabye later

etc.


i am getting better so i can beat them.. Read Topic..

i will join tournaments when i'm good

i dont play in tournaments unless i feel i have a chance at winning at least some games.

you guys are just priveledge to live where you do

Nova Scotia not exactly the hotbed of badminton in Canada

not so many choices here

; (

Originally posted by wedgewenis
You guys dont get what i'm saying

i can't join *one of those clubs*

they are jerks

if i went there they would REFUSE to play w/me


they would tell me they are warming up w/a pertner who wouldnt' show

they would tell me they have a game setup w/someone else who isnt' even there

they would tell me mabye later

etc.


i am getting better so i can beat them.. Read Topic..

i will join tournaments when i'm good

i dont play in tournaments unless i feel i have a chance at winning at least some games.

There's 2 perspectives here

One is from the point of view of the better player

The better player will feel they must play with someone as good or better than them. This is also how you feel.

The ethos of the club can be setup so that the better players can get good games and occasionaly move down to give those who have not achieved their standard a good game. This will then benefit all.

I have yet to find a club whereby players of all standards completeley mingle for the whole evening. I myself would feel a little uncomfortable in this situation unless it was purely social. Given the fact that I am a competitive player I want competitive games to make my evening worthwhile.

The only way to deal with this is as you are doing, to improve, get better, and then beat them or show you can play at their level. Perhaps you may be able to badger these players for an occasional game, put it to them that you need to improve and show some gratitude. Amongst those that will say no, there are those that will say yes too.

This is how it works with clubs. If you want the games, you will have to accepth the attitude I'm afraid. Training groups are a better place to improve. If you can find one, do so.

Originally posted by Winex West Can

Badrad is right in that calling the folks "jerks" would not help and if you can't show respect to all players, you can't expect them to show you respect.

I have to say though, that some players are unavoidably "jerks". But you will find this anywhere you go. You have to ignore them as there are always nice people in the mix.

Hi,

I think this is quite a harsh thread actually. The only people who are jerks are those say who are in county standard and do nothing but mess around, really they SHOULD be training to get better etc. But do realise there are people who play badminton just for a laugh, to socialise and to keep fit. They see it as just a game, and do not see it as that important. The only 'jerks' are the ones that are in something serious (country squad) and yet still mess about. Yes, you get some who runround the court, scream and yell. But once again, this is because they see it as a game and nothing else.

Matt

Yes i feel the need for drills etc and even going back to basic shot playing, but people dont practise because they dont want to take it any further, and just to have fun.

At the end of the day, you only get out of badminton what you put in.

Matt

Originally posted by Matt Ross
Yes i feel the need for drills etc and even going back to basic shot playing, but people dont practise because they dont want to take it any further, and just to have fun.

At the end of the day, you only get out of badminton what you put in.

Matt

So true, Matt, so true.

Agreed, UKP, there are players who are total jerks just like in life.

Wedgewegnis, I would suggest that you check out the NS badminton association at http://members.accesswave.ca/~gerrymar/nsba/nsba.htm

Not knowing exactly where you live but from the site, it looks like there are a number of badminton "clubs" available for people of all ages.

You can sign up for camps. The other thing about playing in community centres (at least the ones that I played in) is usually, there is a moderator who ensure that all players can a chance to play with each other (more of a social thing than anything else) or a moderator will ensure that players are more or less at similar level. So, it depends on the intent of the community centre.

I don't know the actual situation in terms of the players at the place where you play but why would you want to play with the "jerks" anyways? For me, it is just incentive to wallop their behinds soundly when I get the opportunity to play against them. :D

Originally posted by Winex West Can

I don't know the actual situation in terms of the players at the place where you play but why would you want to play with the "jerks" anyways? For me, it is just incentive to wallop their behinds soundly when I get the opportunity to play against them. :D

Ah yes WWC so true so true and how sweet is the victory. :D

The best is when you pan a Jerk who thinks he is head and shoulders above the rest. You can tell how dissapointed he is when he loses, blaming the court, the shuttle or his Aunty's apple pie that he ate for lunch. This is why I love singles. :)

i think what really pisses me off about these people is that yes they are better
but alot of them aren't all that much better.

and they dont love badminton more than me even tho they think they do..which is
probly what really bothers me about it

i mean if they dont let me play them i can't get better - and by refusing to play w/lesser players you do nothing to help new players stay in the sport :(
one of the main reasons i quit playing for 3 years is that i couldnt find anyone my level serious enough to practice with me ..and anyone serious about badminton wouldnt play w/me becuase i wasn't good enough

personally, even tho i dont enjoy playing w/lesser players as much myself
it doenst mean i wont at least have 1 or 2 games vs them to be fair.

and if its singles i'll play anyone .. anybody who asks me to play singles i'll agree to play them..and they can have as many rematches as they want unless someone else wants to play me after.
------------------------------------

i didn't start this thread to diss the snobs of badminton... nor to insult the players who just want to *have fun*

i was only referring to the players that think of themselves as badminton players.. tehy play all the time but never practice.. they complain about how they can't get their clears and smashes to go where they intend to place them..

and i just stand there thinking .. OFCOURSE they wont go where u want them becuase you NEver practice the damned shots
or ofcourse your going to hit the net and misshit or miss the shuttle if you dont practice enough

i dont say this ofcourse but i can't help but think it as we play
---------------------------

i feel this way becuase its true.. when i was in TaeKwonDo, all of the blackbelts made us understand that you can't get better at the individual skills of a martial art by just sparring or fighting.. you might get better at surviving the fight

but in order to get better at the moves used for attack and counteroffence you have to focus on and drill those techniques over and over seprately

in tkd we have sparring night once a week..the rest of the weeks classes are skill training.

oh and btw, in TKD all of the blackbelts are very helpfull .. and if you ask any of them they will spar/fight w/you and give you pointers as you fight if your just a beginner..

and this is a combat sport where the object is to knockout your opponent.. even the people there who compete at nationals and have their own objectives in mind will not exclusivly fight umongst teh other best fighers there.. they will spar w/you nomatter how much you suck



i had a badminton coach once who taught me, he was the first person to actuall isolate the individual shots and footwork and got me to practice them w/out playing for points..i learned more and got better faster at badminton in about 5 sessions w/him than i had in over 3 years playing previously

Wedgewegnis, I would suggest that you check out the NS badminton association at http://members.accesswave.ca/~gerrymar/nsba/nsba.htm

-----------

lol, believe me i have

read my newest post, that'll tell you what i think of it hehe


i'm going to have to make my own NS badminton site becuase of teh shortcommings of that one

i do like how it has all the clubs listed though .. some of the info there is very helpfull but the webmaster isn't willing to add any new content

a forumboard is what it really needs..
like this one

From reading all the threads above, it seems like you have 2 different topics: 1) people who don't practice shots/drills & 2) people who won't play w/ you.

As Matt stated earlier, each person has his/her own perspective of the game...they just want to have a good sweat or a good run, they don't want or need to improve because they don't think it's necessary to do so simply they have a different dedication than you do...badminton isn't on top of every players TO DO LIST...family usually comes first...etc.etc.etc.

You stated you were an "A" player and so were they, if you guys were on the same spectrum, I don't think there would be a major difference. Keep in mind that I know what the levels stand for so I'm not just speaking without any knowledge. If you were an "A" player and so were they, I'm sure you can defend their smashes, lunge for a drop, or even jump smash a mid-court clear as well as they do, perhaps to a lesser extent but I'm sure you can do it if you're an "A" level player. I have joined exclusive badminton only clubs before so I know what you meant by players limiting to playing w/ others at their own level or above...but are they not other players left in the club? perhaps someone in the mid-to-high level "B" to challenge?

each person have their own definition of LOVE for badminton, you can't expect your meaning of LOVE for badminton is the same for them...they could be saying the same about you, or vice-versa...you shouldn't take it too seriously because it'll just ruin your game.

Again, experiences come from participation. If you're not going to join a tournament because you don't think you can win, then you have already LOST for thinking that way. Hopefully you'll understand that there's no such thing as a SURE WIN, be humble & respectful to your opponents and it'll just surprised you! So why not join tournaments to gain experiences & learn to deal w/ pressure?

Hopefully my post didn't disrespect anyone...

Hi,

At the end of the day, you have got to take the rough with the smooth. Badminton is about mental toughness and keeping your cool. You start getting the hump with people, you wont be a good player anyway. Be grateful, for one they are ova the moon to play with a great player, and the last thing is, it should actually help you with your movement around the court. To experiment new shots against them. Give them some slack though, they dont want to take it as seriously as you do. Maybe they have the hump with you because they feel you take it TOO seriously. Any sport is about taking part and enjoying yourself. I do not mean this to sound harsh, but your hardly an international player, so take the rough with the smooth and help those who want to get better. Your on about spreading the sport, so spread the word by helping those who want to be helped.

Matt

Originally posted by Dragon
From reading all the threads above, it seems like you have 2 different topics: 1) people who don't practice shots/drills & 2) people who won't play w/ you.



Not really

i have 1 singular topic which started this thread

its only through the responses did the issue of people who refuse to play w/less experieinced players come into the picture

i said i was an *entry level* A player (at best)

meaning i could hang w/them in rallies but not capable of beatign any of them

vs being an experienced A level player who's been among the best players for many years.

Wedge,

I came 5th in the English schools badminton national finals in March, playing against some of the best in England, only dropping 2 games in preliminaries and the finals, yet i still play in a club where some are not as good. You think too highly of yourself. As i said a player who can handle different situations is the stronger against a person who always gets the hump.

Matt

I was talking with the best player in my club about this topic. He said that when playing weaker people who don't want to do drills, to do drills IN the games. For example, make every shot a clear. Or make every shot a drop to a certain corner, etc.

And I have to agree with everyone on drills improving play far more than games. At the beginning of this year, this one player in my club I could only get like one point on him. At the end, I played him and he beat me 15-12. He was hitting many shots in the alleys that would be in for doubles but not singles. After, I said that he must have been used to playing doubles the whole night. He said no, that I was forcing him into making more bad shots because I was making him run more a get out of position. By that time of the year, I could clear reasonably well and do slice drops.

Phil

I came 5th in the English schools badminton national finals in March, playing against some of the best in England, only dropping 2 games in preliminaries and the finals, yet i still play in a club where some are not as good. You think too highly of yourself. As i said a player who can handle different situations is the stronger against a person who always gets the hump.

Matt

-----------

what the hell ?

i dont think highly of myself at all

i think i have potential.. although i never said i was good


i'm not teh one who won't play w/lesser players.. so i dont know what your talking about :0

Originally posted by wedgewenis


i think i have potential.. although i never said i was good



Did your coach(or any instructor if you have one) say that to you? So you are just assuming that you do have potential. I used to think like you, thought I was too good and have so much potential. But now I have matured realizing that my I have reached my limits of level of play with no coaching. The only way for me to goto the next level is to find a proper coach.
If you do not have a coach, you will never show your talent or potential because no one can guide you and correct your errors.

Did your coach(or any instructor if you have one) say that to you? So you are just assuming that you do have potential. I used to think like you, thought I was too good and have so much potential. But now I have matured realizing that my I have reached my limits of level of play with no coaching. The only way for me to goto the next level is to find a proper coach.
If you do not have a coach, you will never show your talent or potential because no one can guide you and correct your errors.
------------

that statement is only partly true
nobody ever told me i was good.. and ive never had a formal coach.. only a guy who helped me for a few sessions (he was very good)

its a matter of self-knowledge:

i think i have potential becuase of my body-type, level of mental toughness, physical fitness, willingness to work hard and practice .. as well as my *perfectionist* attitude towards my own skills.. i am my hardest critic... i am never satisfied... i believe in myself but i understand there are still many things i need ot overcome in order to consider myself a kick-ass player... i try to find what my weaknesses are by taking note of them constantly, and then addressing them in practice whenever i get a chance.

those are the reasons I believe i have potential... not becuase i am cocky or overconfident in my own abilities.

i also believe highly in self-teaching.... so i partly disagree w/that statment..

alot of people dont honestly rate themselves as a player..they know thier clears suck but they dont honestly look at the problem.. you have to be honest w/yourselve and not be over confident or too harsh and just berate yourselve and give up.. in the end it has to be fun or else nomatter whats happenign your not going to stay with it.. keep it fun.

you have to understand that this is Nova Scotia we are talking about.. there aren't many options for coaching here.

Originally posted by Matt Ross
Wedge,

I came 5th in the English schools badminton national finals in March, playing against some of the best in England, only dropping 2 games in preliminaries and the finals, yet i still play in a club where some are not as good. You think too highly of yourself. As i said a player who can handle different situations is the stronger against a person who always gets the hump.

Matt


thats an excellent point.. i've tried that..but when the games are going so slowly and i only get to hit a certain shot like once every 10 mins...
well it just seems like doing a drill of that particular skill would be alot more fun :0

man i'm making it seem like i'm always bored when i play badminton LOL
thats not really the case

i think i just wish more people knew what i'm saying about practice is totally true.

Originally posted by wedgewenis

i was only referring to the players that think of themselves as badminton players.. tehy play all the time but never practice.. they complain about how they can't get their clears and smashes to go where they intend to place them..

and i just stand there thinking .. OFCOURSE they wont go where u want them becuase you NEver practice the damned shots
or ofcourse your going to hit the net and misshit or miss the shuttle if you dont practice enough


Have you tried asking these players if they want to practise with you? That way you help them to improve and then be good enough to challenge you so everyone wins. If they don't, then maybe they don't have the time to practise or maybe they aren't dedicated enough. Either way, keep offering to practise with them every time they complain!

Me personally, I would love to practise some drills but I don't have anyone to do that with. I don't play that seriously, but I do want to improve by doing specific drills etc. My only option would be to pay for coaching but I can't really afford that.

Chris

there must be someone who will practice w/you?

just ask people who look like they take it more seriously


whenever i meet someone i think might be willing to practice i ask them for their phone number

another player i know has a list of over a thousand badminton players numbers.. so whenver he wants a game he has many options

my list is only like 10-12 people but i keep my eye open for new guys.


if there is a club in newzealand i'm sure somebody there might want to practice.

unfortunately most clubs that have only an allotted time period (community centers/schools, etc) for use won't have too much spare time for players who want to just practice or do drills, unless it is very early or much later in the session.

most clubs and programs the average players wants to just get on the court, play their games and then go home. for serious drills you need to get unidisturbed court time, which means either a court rental or at dedicated/private clubs where you can be allotted a court for training purposes.

having taken a year break from the vrc, the toughest part was finding another gym to practice. most gyms for court rentals we had to pre-book a week in advance, and for those that we didn't - we were sharing the gym with basketball and indoor soccer.

however back at the vrc, i also have a club mentality. since i pay a premium for the priviledge of a 24x7 badminton club, i choose to play with whomever i choose, and really the same goes for every other member. in general i will play with most people once, but my criteria usually are:

1 - is the player a spaz (possible racquet damage - injury)
2 - attitude - if the person is prick, why bother - life's too short
3 - cheap - does not contribute a shuttle - or puts in a used or crappy shuttle.

Sorry to brought this "who is the jerk" kindda topic up, but just one simple question, are those ppl who doesn't want to play with you but only play with certain person has the same nationality as you? cz in where I live, its like that, so many different group of people, Chinese, locals, Native American, Japanese, korean, even some middle east player around the club. I experienced that if you are not one of "them" you rarely have the chance to play them.