I figured that with new people starting to post new messages here i thought i'd raise this topic again and see what other people have to say.

I posted a topic a while ago questioning Titanium reinforcement and what it does. Why do companies put Titanium into rackets anyway? Whats the point? Whats it do?

Thanx for all replies

So many answers have already been posted in this message

board. To satisfy curiosity I asked golfers and they say

titanium heads give extra kick to their drives.Then I went out to

buy a cab20 carbonex with titanium head and found out that

the titaniun head does offer better power and control but was

highly inflexible and restricted my game which is based on

chops , deception and shot making, maybe the same racquet

would be more useful in doubles where one has to bludgeon

opponents.That is just my experience and I am no fan of

titanium.Maybe there are better titanium models that I haven't

tried.

Titanium is a metal that is stronger than steel at roughly half to two thirds of the weight. It first became popular in sports with the use of titanium tube sets in bicycle frames around the late 80's or early 90's and that use still makes the best sense out of all the sorts of items that are made with titanium today. Titanium bicycle frames are usually 500-1000g lighter than comparable steel framed bikes, which can be a significant benefit to pro riders going up the mountains in races such as the Tour de France. Titanium frames also absorb shock a bit better than steel, which many cyclists claim gives them more energy and less fatigue at the end of a long ride. Most cyclists who own titanium bikes (at a cost of at least $1500 U.S.) really like them.

The next significant sporting use for titanium occurred in the early to mid 90's in club heads (and less commonly in the shafts) of golf clubs. Since titanium was lighter than steel, a club manufacturer could make a bigger club head, particularly in a driver or other metal woods, which would give the club more perimeter weighting and a bigger sweet spot than the same weight club fashioned from steel and thus tend to produce slightly longer and straighter shots. For a while, manufacturers were making irons, as well as woods, with titanium but that sub-trend seems to have mostly died away in the past year or two.

Titanium has become such a ridiculous hype item in sporting goods that manufacturers are even adding it (probably in tiny, trace amounts) to tennis balls, golf balls and clothing (Columbia makes Gore-tex style parkas that they claim, in a bold tag on the sleave, contains titanium in the threads of the fabric). Personally, I cannot see how adding a metal to any of these types of items can make any difference whatsoever (I have tried three types of titanium golf balls and they all performed worse than the regular ones I use) and it appears to be primarily a marketing scam.

Racquet manufacturers add titanium mesh to the graphite in their racquet heads claiming that it adds strength and stiffness to the racquet and possibly expands the sweet spot somewhat. Other than the Yonex Ti-10 (which many people seem to think is stiffer and more powerful than most other racquets), various reviews of titanium badminton rackets don't seem to praise them any more than comparable, all graphite racquets. Although I have only played with one titanium racquet (a Ti-8 that I didn't particularly like), based on the many other comments people have made, I think titanium is more of a marketing gimmick than a real advancement in badminton. By analogy to tennis racquets, while some manufacturers like to put titanium in all of their racquets, Wilson only adds it to their glitzy, low end models and does not use or market titanium in their better racquets, presumably because it offers no benefit to racquets for better players. One would also assume that because Carlton has not used titanium in its better racquets, that the metal offers no particular advantage for badminton racquets.

thanks Brett, that was an excellent explanation. i'd just like to point out one small point, titanium is not stronger than steel per volume, but it is stronger per weight.

i found some data on the material properties of alumin(i)um, steel and titanium. Modulus is stiffness, yield point is strength, and specific gravity is weight.

<table>
<tr><td>Material</td><td>Modulus</td><td>Yield Point</td><td>Specific Gravity</td></tr>
<tr><td>Aluminum</td><td>10-11</td><td>11-59 (4-22 annealed.)</td><td> 168.5</td></tr>
<tr><td>Steel</td><td>30</td><td>46-162</td><td>490</td></tr>
<tr><td>Titanium</td><td>15-16.5</td><td>40-120</td><td>280</td></tr>
</table>

enjoy!

Actually one should think Titanium fibers in the
raquet frame as a reinforcement. Being a kind of high
strength metal, usually it provides extra strength
against cracking to the matrix material. As people
know, the carbon fiber - epoxy matrix materials are
brittle.

yes, a very valid point, but then again, would that small insert at the 3 and 9 positions on the head make a real big difference?

Thats exactly what i was thinking. I was also wondering if the stuff they put in the rackets really are Titanium in the first place.

Will Titanium go the same way as boron/ceramic/wide body--->into the bin?

Your sweet spot is in that vacinity... and it does add a little more stability with shots with a strong reinforcements.

I believe titanium gives no special advantage in terms of badminton raquets.
Yonex's Ti series isnt even made of 100% titanium, its titanium reinforced graphite, which they give a special name "titanium mesh". All this does is bond the graphite fibres together with some titanium in the epoxy. Which doesnt do anything but add a bit of rigidity(if even). It seems to be only a hype, if titanium was really that good, yonex would have obviously made the Ti10 100% titanium and not like..20%.
and as one of the earlier msgs before stated "Carlton doenst use titanium in they're high end models, because it doesnt give any advantage"

I've a coach friend who is from ex-HK team. At the time he was still in tournament, he was sponsored by Yonex with Boron 2 racquets. He still keep one brand new one now and is willing to sell it if someone can offer him HK$5,000. I then asked how great about the Boron 2 (while it was released after I playing badminton for many years, I can't afford it at that time), and he said that besides it is no longer manufactured by Yonex, it is a great racquet too - the main problem is that it is very easily to crack (as a result, it is rarely used in double).

I can't verify his claim as I never try the Boron 2 before. However I do think if it is really a good racquet, why did Yonex stop manufacture it ? Some people don't mind to buy non-durable racquets provided that they are really good. In fact, Xia Xuanze is still using this racquet nowadays, right ?

Xia uses cab20.

This brings up an interesting point. Does Yonex really test run their new racquets? Some racquets are obviously very flimsy. Were those racquets tested properly in playing (and trauma conditions). This applies to all racquet manufacturers, actually.

Sun Jun was using a boron-2. I've never tried it but it has a slim shaft like the cab-21

The iso-900 was replaced buy the Ti-swing power. The Ti-swing power has more vibration and no more power.

I have only just realised yesterday when i was playing with a couple of different rackets including my Yonex Ti-7 and my Pro-Kennex CarbonPro 787. They were both newly strung with an Ashaway Microlegend string at 24lbs

Even though they both that the same string. The CarbonPro 787 vibrated more than the Ti-7 whenever the i smashed or hit the shuttle hard. The work of Titanium?

Yes, it is Sun Jun using Boron 2. I've made a mistake in my previous message (I always having problem in interpreting those Chinese translation of Chinese players). -:(

p.s. I heard someone said that those Boron 2 racquets are made especially for him (as they no longer manufacture now).

That's correct. Titanium or other metals has a tendency to absorb vibration a lot better than pure carbon or carbon-graphite composite.

Exactly The AB 2000 do contain titanium mesh in the racquet frame.

A 100% titanium badminton racquet will be too heavy to handle.

Do anyone have a engineering degree in Materials?

When you look at material science, the shape, manufacturing and other misc processes that occur within the building of racquet, that's how the strength, flex, and other characteristics are determined.

I've purchased an all graphite racquet that couldn't hold 21lbs of string tension, the fibres just buckled, and it cracked with just a smash.

Therefore, b4 deciding Ti is a total waste, just think of it as another material that has been employed to either:

1. deceptively fool you in thinking the value of the racket is greater (marketting)
2. maybe the racket company actually did some research and placed the material weave in the correct location with the correct sandwiching procedure to actually make it worthwhile.

I've got a quartz, Ti, graphite racket and its stiff as hell, lighter than any other racket I've every seen, and its damn durable. How's that for good manufacturing?

Try to sample the racket b4 buying it. The general rules apply to any product, if it doesn't match your game, then don't use it.

Yeah, few milligram of Ti-Mesh taped or glued to the sides really gonna absorb the pounding of shuttlecocks at 100+ mph. NOT.

Better yet, why dont high end graphite bikes have any Ti-mesh?

Why dont you ask yourself how come the very high end bike frame and component are 100% titanium? Why high end glasses frame are titanium?
Come on, use your head.

Some of them do, the Cab 8 has been released with Ti mesh included. Just to add to this, SBP rackets that has Ti mesh don't, its just a normal racket with a graphite frame. Why? because it vibrates too much

If racquets could be made substantially or fully from titanium, it would not be 100% titanium in any event, but an alloy. The most common alloy used in bicycle frames and golf shafts is known as 3Al- 2.5V, which is an alloy of 94.5% titanium, 3% aluminum and 2.5% vanadium, to give the titanium more stiffness. A less common alloy is 6Al- 4V, which is only 90 % titanium and is stiffer than the more common alloy, but more brittle and harder to work.

I am guessing that it would not be feasible to construct a racquet out of titanium alloy. First, I am not sure that ti tubing is manufactured thin enough for a racquet shaft - the thinnest I saw on a titanium manufacturer's product list was 9.5mm in diameter, whereas the typical badminton graphite shaft is around 7.5mm. I also don't think it would be easy to cast a racquet head from ti - it is much more difficult to work with than aluminum or steel. If such a racquet could be made, I think it would probably weigh more than most graphite racquets - the lightest graphite bicycle frames are about 15-22% lighter than the lightest ti frames. I also think that a ti alloy shaft might be too flexible. Finally, I imagine that the cost of a titanium alloy racquet might be prohibitive - extracting titanium ore is a very complicated process and the difficulty of working with this metal also drives the price up.

I have sent an e-mail to a major U.S. titanium manufacturer of bicycle frames and golf club shafts, Titanium Sports Technologies, Inc,, requesting information about the feasibility of making a titanium alloy racquet, as well as estimates for weight and cost of such a racquet. Hopefully they will respond to my questions and I will post any response; I have wanted a ti bicycle for years and I hinted to them that in the next year or so I might buy one from them.


Here are some specifications on titanium alloy tubes:


TST Ti -3Al-2.5V Tubing Properties


Strength
135,000 psi ( 930 Mpa) Ultimate Strength
115,000 psi ( 790 Mpa) Yield Strength
About 10 - 15% stronger than Cr-Mo steel
And three times as strong as 6061 Al - T6

Density
0.162 lbs/in³ (4.48 gm/cm³)
45% lighter than steel and 65% heavier than aluminum

Strength to Weight Ratio
Based on Yield Strength divided by Density
74% higher than 6061 - T6 Aluminum
102% higher than 4130 Cr-Mo steel

Elastic Modulus
15.0 x 106 psi (10.3 x 104 Mpa)
50% higher than aluminum alloys and
50% lower than steel alloys

Cooler, I am thinking that the answer to your question about the lack of ti-mesh in bike frames is that it is not necessary. I used to be a bicycle nut about five years ago, but haven't been subscribing to the magazines for several years. I read an interview with a carbon (graphite) frame manufacturer and he stated that a carbon frame was infinitely adaptable to the particular preferences of a rider, as they could easily add or remove additional sheets of carbon fiber, or change the direction of the carbon sheets (carbon is a directional fiber with different strength and flex characteristics depending on the direction of the weave). I have a vague recollection that various other substances including boron, kevlar and maybe titanium were used in carbon bicycle frames in the early to mid '90s, but I could be wrong and in any event, currently most major carbon frame manufacturers use only carbon and an epoxy resin in their frames.

As for bicycle components, most high-end bicycles do come with some ti components, such as full sets of ti nuts and bolts, dropouts, derailleur hangers, hubsets, headsets and the like. Ti parts save a lot of weight and do not corrode like steel or aluminum parts and a number of manufacturers produce them for upgrading existing bikes. Ti parts are damn expensive - I think just a pair of typical nuts and bolts are at least USD $2-3 each. I always figured that the best weigh to lighten up a bicycle for peddling uphill wasn't to spend hundreds of dollars on ti parts to save a quarter kilogram, but to lose a few kgs off my stomach.

that last paragraph should read "best way to lighten up..."

i'm quite in tune of Ti physical attrbutes and its many commerical application. I was a bike nut once also. Can't keep up with the constant innovation of bike changes so i stop following it. However, i will upgrade my bike to a full suspension with full disc brakes when they are common and cheap like chocolate chip cookies. The mountain bike i like is around 4000 US$. I rather buy a real motocross motorcycle instead (which i do have). It rides (float) so smooth like a cadillac over bumps and dirt trails when compare to a mountain bike. You can see that all mountain bike suspension makers want to emulates motocross suspension. In motocross, the bike is close to perfection. There is no gimmick components in them.

I used the term 100% ti loosely so pete and other would understand my basic point. As i have said many times over and you have too in your last post, the partial ti-mesh in badminton racquet is technically negative but extremely positive in term of marketing.

Cooler, isn't it funny how a simple piece of equipment like a bike, whose design has remained essentially the same for the past half century (maybe with the exception of better shifters and frame materials), can easily cost $2000 to $6000 or more, yet CD-RW drives, which cost $1000-2000 five or six years ago, can now be purchased for under $100 and are at least four times faster? I guess automated robotic production lines and the more competitve market for computer equipment are the reasons.

I would be curious to know the actual manufacturing cost (materials, labor, factory overhead) of a basic Cab-20 (w/o gimmicks) and an MP-100 (loaded with gimmicks and marketing hoopla). Then I would like to see those production costs compared to the actual cost to Yonex of those racquets after adding in corporate overhead and marketing. Maybe we should recruit a spy in the Yonex organization.