Is LCW the top 1-2 player in the world?

[evylgrynn]

Had an interesting discussion with some fellow badminton fans the other day. There is a lot of debate going on right now about who is the clear #1 mens singles player. We have LCW, who is a runaway leader in points earned over the last 12 months. We also have Lin Dan, who by ranking is #2, but has taken a lot of time off over the last 12 months, and has won all of the major titles in recent history.
(Full disclosure, I am a LD and PG fan, but I also acknowledge that LCW has been great over the last year, other than his Finals at OG, AE vs LD).

Given that it is generally acknowledged that LD is the best player in the world today (titles and Head to Head results), is LCW #2? He has accomplished a large portion of his results while not having to play against China's top guns. In the SO, AE this year he has not had to play against BCL or Chen Jin, who have been in LD's half of the draw the last few tournaments. As far as I can remember, the last time LCW played Chen Jin, he lost in the 2008 AE semi finals. He was also beaten by BCL the last time they met in the China Masters.
In the tournaments after 2008 AE I don't think LCW has had to play the big Chinese guns
2008 AE-lost to CJ in semi
2008 OG-Lost to LD in final(did not play CJ or BCL)
2008 China Open-Lost to LD in final(did not play CJ or BCL)
French Open-Lost to TH in semi (no CHN)
Malaysia Open-Won (no CHN)
Korea Open-Lost in finals to PG (no CHN)
AE-lost to LD(did not play CJ or BCL)
SO-beat LD in final(did not play CJ or BCL)
India Open-lost to CL, CHN lower ranked player

I thought it was interesting that LCW has earned most of his results without having to beat CHN top guns. He is a great, great player and has been incredibly consistent over the last year, and has earned the #1 points ranking by being so consistent. But I don't know that he is even the #2"best" player in the world right now.

What do you think?

[koo_fan]

One thing that we should bear in mind, it isnt go like this, WR1 = World Best Player. It's wrong.

In overall, we do know Lee Chong Wei had to go that extra mile to be at LD's par. The fact speak for itself.

10 MARCH 2009-Badminton/All England review: Misbun: There is a way to beat Lin Dan!

Yeah!

[k_sakic]

In terms of points, LCW definately deserves the World Ranking of #1. He's played more tournaments that the other top tier players. But I would not consider LCW to be the best player in the world right now. With all due respect, I feel that he lacks the capability to win in big tournaments. If you take a look at his stats at the World Championships (2006,2007) and the 2004 Olympics, he was eliminated in the earlier rounds. Even at the 2008 Olympics, when he finally managed to make it to the finals, he totally lost it in the finals. He was definately nervous, and that affected his performance.
Personally, I believe that LCW is a good player. He has great badminton techniques and court awareness. The one thing he needs to work on is improving his mental game. Once he conquers that weakness, he may be able to win big tournaments, like the Worlds this summer.

[chris-ccc]

.
evylgrynn ... Yes, Lee Chong Wei is the runaway leader in points and is currently ranked as World No.1. Lin Dan is ranked No.2. However, Lin Dan has won more renowned titles.

Currently, it appears that LCW is entering most National Opens/Titles, while LD is only selecting the renowned ones. So, how are we to decide whether LCW or LD is currently the top player in the world? It is only going to be a very subjective decision, if anyone is to make one.

However, on the head-to-head count, LD is way ahead of LCW.

Personally, I would award the World No.1 title to LCW. If LD wishes to be No.1, he would need to participate in more tournaments to earn more points. But from what we have witnessed recently, China is no longer interested to have Lin Dan to regain his World No.1 position. As disappointed as most of us BCers are (wanting to watch matches between Lee Chong Wei and Lin Dan), we might only get to watch them play each other in fewer occasions from now on.

We now have a thread asking if Lee Chong Wei could remain as World No.1 until he retires after the 2012 Olympic Games. For the link: click here (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68649)
.

[Dato A]

Had an interesting discussion with some fellow badminton fans the other day. There is a lot of debate going on right now about who is the clear #1 mens singles player. We have LCW, who is a runaway leader in points earned over the last 12 months. We also have Lin Dan, who by ranking is #2, but has taken a lot of time off over the last 12 months, and has won all of the major titles in recent history.
(Full disclosure, I am a LD and PG fan, but I also acknowledge that LCW has been great over the last year, other than his Finals at OG, AE vs LD).

Given that it is generally acknowledged that LD is the best player in the world today (titles and Head to Head results), is LCW #2? He has accomplished a large portion of his results while not having to play against China's top guns. In the SO, AE this year he has not had to play against BCL or Chen Jin, who have been in LD's half of the draw the last few tournaments. As far as I can remember, the last time LCW played Chen Jin, he lost in the 2008 AE semi finals. He was also beaten by BCL the last time they met in the China Masters.
In the tournaments after 2008 AE I don't think LCW has had to play the big Chinese guns
2008 AE-lost to CJ in semi
2008 OG-Lost to LD in final(did not play CJ or BCL)
2008 China Open-Lost to LD in final(did not play CJ or BCL)
French Open-Lost to TH in semi (no CHN)
Malaysia Open-Won (no CHN)
Korea Open-Lost in finals to PG (no CHN)
AE-lost to LD(did not play CJ or BCL)
SO-beat LD in final(did not play CJ or BCL)
India Open-lost to CL, CHN lower ranked player

I thought it was interesting that LCW has earned most of his results without having to beat CHN top guns. He is a great, great player and has been incredibly consistent over the last year, and has earned the #1 points ranking by being so consistent. But I don't know that he is even the #2"best" player in the world right now.

What do you think?

You should include the title of 'Datuk' when you put your comment on him, as the title conferred by Malaysia Government to him for his great performance at the 2008 Olympic Games, winning the Silver-Medallist. This is to show our respect to him.

Back to the story.

To be at the top spot because of his great performace, or his hardworking? I think both. The question you have arose here - DLCW is the 2nd MS Player currently in the world, after LD? This would be the toughest question to be answer since i join BC.:p:p

[hhwoot]

I thought it was interesting that LCW has earned most of his results without having to beat CHN top guns. He is a great, great player and has been incredibly consistent over the last year, and has earned the #1 points ranking by being so consistent. But I don't know that he is even the #2"best" player in the world right now.

What do you think?

I have to agree with most of the comments already. Lin Dan is most likely the "best" player in the world. But Lee Chong Wei is solidly World ranked #1 for many good reasons.

You say he (LCW) isn't even #2 "best" in the world, then who is? You say that LCW "earned most of his results without having to beat CHN top guns" in order to imply that that's why he shouldn't be considered better. But I'd like to add that Lin Dan has earned most of his results without having to beat USA top guns. So all you really said is that these "CHN top guns" also can't get results.

[Dato A]

Dear HHWOOT,

State us what are the good reasons of DLCW solidly world ranked no.1. Thank you.

[ctjcad]

...
What do you think?
(asking the same question back)
..what do yooooou think??..:confused:

[hhwoot]

Dear HHWOOT,

State us what are the good reasons of DLCW solidly world ranked no.1. Thank you.

Some one else has already given a few good reasons, let me find his post...


To be at the top spot because of his great performace, or his hardworking? I think both.

A different way to read my original statement is: The best reason Lee Chong Wei is solidly world ranked #1 is because he is world ranked #1.

If we want to talk about #1, #2, etc. then there needs to be a clear ranking system. In the current world ranking system, LCW is solidly number 1. If I did not imply clearly in my original post, I will state again that "world ranked #1" is not the same as "best player in the world".

Most of us will agree that Lin Dan can be considered the "best player in the world". But we don't actually have any true metric by which to determine who the "best" players in the world are and rank them. We agree that Lin Dan is "best" because we've seen him play and dominate, but we don't have a way to convert that into numbers to see if his number is larger.

[Dato A]

I thought this thread is discussing about who's the No.2 player in the world of badminton sports currently, not WR NO.1 = / NOT = to the 'best' player.

[george@chongwei]

I thought this thread is discussing about who's the No.2 player in the world of badminton sports currently, not WR NO.1 = / NOT = to the 'best' player.
Is LCW the top 1-2 player in the world? (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1145441#post1145441):cool:

[chris-ccc]

Is LCW the top 1-2 player in the world? (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1145441#post1145441) :cool:



.
:D:D:D Of course LCW is currently the top player in the world. This is because it is "What we see (from the BWF World Rankings), is what we get".

For those who believe in "What we think, is what we get", our discussions can be never-ending.

I can dare to say that I am better than LCW and/or LD, and I don't need to play against them to prove the point. But, of course, it's just what I think, not what the BWF Ranking List tells us.

BTW, you will never see my name listed in the BWF Ranking List, because I don't need to prove to the world how good I am (roll eyes). :D:D:D
.

[Tekkai]

I don't think LCW is the best player in the world..I say he would be the 2nd best..1st is LD and 3rd would be BCL.

[ants]

LCW is consistent. But i do have to agree that LinDan is the best so far.

[Amin Khalili]

LCW is consistent. But i do have to agree that LinDan is the best so far.
yeah.................................

[Dr. Evil]

This is ******** topic. Just another excuse for some MAS hater to type crap about how great Lindan is. Why, forum been too quiet lately?

Eny, you mention Lindan is the better player given the head to head but question if LCW is second best when he have a 6:2 against Chen Jin, 8:4 against Bao and 5:1 against Gade. So what happen, your head got transfer to your ass momentarily?

All players blunder sometimes. Chen Jin lost to Chong Wei Fang, Bao out first round of HK open after beating LCW a week ago, Lindan got axes in early round of China open.

But like I said, I understand this is just another excuse for the MAS hater cronies to go at it after some quiet times in this forum. Get a life.

[ants]

Im Malaysian.. i dont hate myself either.

[General Foo]

This is ******** topic. Just another excuse for some MAS hater to type crap about how great Lindan is. Why, forum been too quiet lately?

Eny, you mention Lindan is the better player given the head to head but question if LCW is second best when he have a 6:2 against Chen Jin, 8:4 against Bao and 5:1 against Gade. So what happen, your head got transfer to your ass momentarily?

All players blunder sometimes. Chen Jin lost to Chong Wei Fang, Bao out first round of HK open after beating LCW a week ago, Lindan got axes in early round of China open.

But like I said, I understand this is just another excuse for the MAS hater cronies to go at it after some quiet times in this forum. Get a life.


lol wtf bc is full of malaysians and all half of them do is post about how disrespsectful or whatever they are branding lin dan nowadays. why dont u just stick to the topic?

[bananakid]

This is ******** topic. Just another excuse for some MAS hater to type crap about how great Lindan is. Why, forum been too quiet lately?

Eny, you mention Lindan is the better player given the head to head but question if LCW is second best when he have a 6:2 against Chen Jin, 8:4 against Bao and 5:1 against Gade. So what happen, your head got transfer to your ass momentarily?

All players blunder sometimes. Chen Jin lost to Chong Wei Fang, Bao out first round of HK open after beating LCW a week ago, Lindan got axes in early round of China open.

But like I said, I understand this is just another excuse for the MAS hater cronies to go at it after some quiet times in this forum. Get a life.


I sort of agree with you on how this topic is quite meaningless from the surface, which is why I chose not to respond to it until I read your comment.

However, in response to the highlighted portion of your post, I would like to use the exact same phrase(with minor changes) to describe the following thread as well

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68649
"This is ******** topic. Just another excuse for some MAS boleh fans to type crap about how great LCW is. Why, forum been too quiet lately?
"But like I said, I understand this is just another excuse for the MAS boleh fans to go at it after some quiet times in this forum. Get a life."

[nick.h]

I sort of agree with you on how this topic is quite meaningless from the surface, which is why I chose not to respond to it until I read your comment.

However, in response to the highlighted portion of your post, I would like to use the exact same phrase(with minor changes) to describe the following thread as well

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68649
"This is ******** topic. Just another excuse for some MAS boleh fans to type crap about how great LCW is. Why, forum been too quiet lately?
"But like I said, I understand this is just another excuse for the MAS boleh fans to go at it after some quiet times in this forum. Get a life."

haha yeah me too...
wtf?winning 2nd place in OG means he's the best player EVER?...yea right not even close :cool:
LCW hardly wins anything major...he either gets man-handled in finals by LD from time to time and then blame other ppl for his loss or he gets nervous and ends up losing in 2nd round and still blames other ppl :p
lets see...what major tourney has he won?AE?WC?OG?hmmm.......

[bananakid]

.
:D:D:D Of course LCW is currently the top player in the world. This is because it is "What we see (from the BWF World Rankings), is what we get".

For those who believe in "What we think, is what we get", our discussions can be never-ending.
I can dare to say that I am better than LCW and/or LD, and I don't need to play against them to prove the point. But, of course, it's just what I think, not what the BWF Ranking List tells us.

BTW, you will never see my name listed in the BWF Ranking List, because I don't need to prove to the world how good I am (roll eyes). :D:D:D
.

LOL...

I don't recall the last time you ever said Lin Dan is better than LCW, even though Lin Dan has been ranked #1 from 2003 - mid 2008 with an exception of 3 months during 2006. :rolleyes:

According to your standard "NOW", then Lin Dan(WR#1) should have been look at as way better than Taufik during 2004-2005 even though Taufik was obviously better than Lin Dan at that time, and Lin Dan back then only had 1 AE title to show for, while Taufik has WC and OG... but guess what, I bet you claimed that Taufik was better than Lin Dan at that time.

Quite frankly, I notice you like to find favorable facts(world ranking only when LCW is #1) to support your love to LCW, but at the same time avoid all unfavorable facts(LCW has no major title to show for).:rolleyes:

Adding these " :D:D:D" all the time don't make your claims any easier for others to accept if they are completely bias.

For others' information, using :D:D:D all the time doesn't necessarily mean he/she is a better person than someone who uses :rolleyes: more often.

These :D:D:D can be used to cover "bias and lies", while :rolleyes: can be used to question these "bias and lies"

[james_m]

hello everyone! this is my first time on Badminton central..wow...i didn't know it's so intense here...i would have to agree with bananakid....LCW did not win a major championship....Lin Dan is a better player

[badadum]

hello everyone! this is my first time on Badminton central..wow...i didn't know it's so intense here...i would have to agree with bananakid....LCW did not win a major championship....Lin Dan is a better player

The point of contention is not only the #1 player in the world, but also #2..... hard to come up with argument against LCW as #2 player in the world currently. The OP argues that LCW's accomplishment is due to the fact that he hadn't met china's player (namely BCL & CJ)...due to different bracket, but there's no guarantee that BCL and CJ could fare well enough to have a go at LCW. PG, TH, SDK, etc could've stop them death @ their track as well. PG has beaten CJ the last 2 time they met....so is the case with BCL vs SDK.

[chris-ccc]

LOL...

I don't recall the last time you ever said Lin Dan is better than LCW, even though Lin Dan has been ranked #1 from 2003 - mid 2008 with an exception of 3 months during 2006. :rolleyes:

According to your standard "NOW", then Lin Dan(WR#1) should have been look at as way better than Taufik during 2004-2005 even though Taufik was obviously better than Lin Dan at that time, and Lin Dan back then only had 1 AE title to show for, while Taufik has WC and OG... but guess what, I bet you claimed that Taufik was better than Lin Dan at that time.

Quite frankly, I notice you like to find favorable facts (world ranking only when LCW is #1) to support your love to LCW, but at the same time avoid all unfavorable facts(LCW has no major title to show for).:rolleyes:

Adding these ":D:D:D" all the time don't make your claims any easier for others to accept if they are completely bias.

For others' information, using :D:D:D all the time doesn't necessarily mean he/she is a better person than someone who uses :rolleyes: more often.

These :D:D:D can be used to cover "bias and lies", while :rolleyes: can be used to question these "bias and lies"



.
Yes, some BCers love to use the "LOL", and some love the ":D:D:D" (provided by Badminton Central). To me, they are the same.

I love Badminton and love to read info/news about Badminton. That's why I am at Badminton Central often. Badminton is the love of my life.

Regarding to our current world 4 best players, I would rank (in order of performance):
1. LD
2. LCW
3. TH
4. PG
(Here, we can argue to death how we rank players' performance. And why are some players not included? It's subjective.)

Regarding to our current world 4 top ranked players, BWF ranked (as at 9-Apr-2009):
1. LCW
2. LD
3. CJ
4. PG
(Here, we can either accept or reject the ranking system used by BWF. And why are ranking points calculated to be this/that value? It's subjective again.)

This was how I replied to the thread starter, evylgrynn (Post #4):
.



evylgrynn ... Yes, Lee Chong Wei is the runaway leader in points and is currently ranked as World No.1. Lin Dan is ranked No.2. However, Lin Dan has won more renowned titles.

Currently, it appears that LCW is entering most National Opens/Titles, while LD is only selecting the renowned ones. So, how are we to decide whether LCW or LD is currently the top player in the world? It is only going to be a very subjective decision, if anyone is to make one.

However, on the head-to-head count, LD is way ahead of LCW.

Personally, I would award the World No.1 title to LCW. If LD wishes to be No.1, he would need to participate in more tournaments to earn more points. But from what we have witnessed recently, China is no longer interested to have Lin Dan to regain his World No.1 position. As disappointed as most of us BCers are (wanting to watch matches between Lee Chong Wei and Lin Dan), we might only get to watch them play each other in fewer occasions from now on.

We now have a thread asking if Lee Chong Wei could remain as World No.1 until he retires after the 2012 Olympic Games. For the link: click here (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68649)

[Joyous]

Perhaps you can request Raphy to get LCW online with Badzine and BC can ask LCW directly whether he feels/thinks he IS the World No. 1. Whatever his answer may be, I am sure there will be a thread on it.

[cooler]

evylgrynn ... Yes, Lee Chong Wei is the runaway leader in points and is currently ranked as World No.1. Lin Dan is ranked No.2. However, Lin Dan has won more renowned titles.

Currently, it appears that LCW is entering most National Opens/Titles, while LD is only selecting the renowned ones. So, how are we to decide whether LCW or LD is currently the top player in the world? It is only going to be a very subjective decision, if anyone is to make one.

However, on the head-to-head count, LD is way ahead of LCW.

Personally, I would award the World No.1 title to LCW. If LD wishes to be No.1, he would need to participate in more tournaments to earn more points. But from what we have witnessed recently, China is no longer interested to have Lin Dan to regain his World No.1 position. As disappointed as most of us BCers are (wanting to watch matches between Lee Chong Wei and Lin Dan), we might only get to watch them play each other in fewer occasions from now on.

let me help u to clear your cloudy crystal ball. From now til end of 2009, if LD sit out all the tournaments, and LCW wins all the MS titles, LD will still have more titles, and better titles, than LCW. Is that objective enough??? Like i have b4, Lin Dan is generous but of course, he isn't THAT generous to sit out all the tourneys, he need to stretch his muscles to keep in shape for XXF:p

[Waix3Sarah]

Compare to lin dan and chen jin LCW seem he is weak than them

just my opinion

[koo_fan]

let me help u to clear your cloudy crystal ball. From now til end of 2009, if LD sit out all the tournaments, and LCW wins all the MS titles, LD will still have more titles, and better titles, than LCW. Is that objective enough??? Like i have b4, Lin Dan is generous but of course, he isn't THAT generous to sit out all the tourneys, he need to stretch his muscles to keep in shape for XXF:p

Yeah, cooler. My concern is whether LCW can be one remembered WR1 or not. Or one day..one day, in wiki, he'll be the only WR1 with no major title.
Sad, huh?

generous.. Lin dan is cool but not a God that a result of a game would totally depend on his generosity. Can we drop that?:p

[ants]

No one will forget LCW. He has made alot of impact for Malaysian badminton.

[Pemuda]

No one will forget LCW. He has made alot of impact for Malaysian badminton.

Eddy Choong, Tan Aik Huang & co won bigger titles than LCW. What happened to them in terms of recognition today?

[Pemuda]

.
evylgrynn ... Yes, Lee Chong Wei is the runaway leader in points and is currently ranked as World No.1. Lin Dan is ranked No.2. However, Lin Dan has won more renowned titles.

Currently, it appears that LCW is entering most National Opens/Titles, while LD is only selecting the renowned ones. So, how are we to decide whether LCW or LD is currently the top player in the world? It is only going to be a very subjective decision, if anyone is to make one.

However, on the head-to-head count, LD is way ahead of LCW.

Personally, I would award the World No.1 title to LCW. If LD wishes to be No.1, he would need to participate in more tournaments to earn more points. But from what we have witnessed recently, China is no longer interested to have Lin Dan to regain his World No.1 position. As disappointed as most of us BCers are (wanting to watch matches between Lee Chong Wei and Lin Dan), we might only get to watch them play each other in fewer occasions from now on.

We now have a thread asking if Lee Chong Wei could remain as World No.1 until he retires after the 2012 Olympic Games. For the link: click here (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68649)
.

Correction LD not only have won more renowned titles than LCW. LD have won more SS titles than LCW as well.

Will LCW be remembered as a shuttler in 20 years time? Yes, of course. We will remember the lad as well as the others like Foo Kok Keong, Misbun Sidek etc. But will he be amongst the legends like Rudy Hartono, Yang Yang, Liem Swie King? No. LD, however will be up there amongst the legends.

At the end of the day, it is the titles won, major ones that matters. No one in 20 or so years down the line will remember so & so was WR1 for 'x' amount of months.

[hcyong]

Take the formal ranking out of way, we have personal opinions. But we also need a set a context for opinions. Let's say the context is, "Rank the best players who were active in the past 12 months." Undoubtedly, LD will top this list for most people.

The main question of this thread is whether LCW even deserves the 2nd place in the list. In my opinion, he does. Simply because no one else does. Sure, LCW has lost to some players in the past 12 months, most recently CL. But does that make CL the 2nd best player? Hardly.

Now, if the context is, "Rank the best players in the past 2 years / 5 years / 10 years". Then, it would be different. Because I can at the very least think of TH as the better player than LCW.

[koo_fan]

No one will forget LCW. He has made alot of impact for Malaysian badminton.
Maybe. How about others? Like it or not, he isn't yet complete without major title.
I'll pray all the way, and hopefully that will help. ..

[george@chongwei]

please dont be out of the topic guys;)

[OneToughBirdie]

Maybe. How about others? Like it or not, he isn't yet complete without major title.
I'll pray all the way, and hopefully that will help. ..

You have to knee down when you pray then maybe your prayers may be answered:D

[pjswift]

No one will forget LCW. He has made alot of impact for Malaysian badminton.
Agree.
Which MAS badminton player, or even MAS sports star, has more endorsement deals and national recognition than LCW?
In fact, my regular JB Yonex store is always hoping LCW wins titles.Reason? His Yonex equipment sales would spike right after a LCW victory.One can assume that happens across all Yonex stores across MAS.
LCW is giving Yonex super value for their money.
LCW is a unique MAS national star because he is popular across all races;not just among the Chinese but also warmly embraced by the majority Malays.
That's why LCW will have no equal as a MAS sports celebrity and will not be forgotten.

[eaglehelang]

Agree.
Which MAS badminton player, or even MAS sports star, has more endorsement deals and national recognition than LCW?
...................
That's why LCW will have no equal as a MAS sports celebrity and will not be forgotten.

And the fact that during every OG, LCW will be remembered as the sole medalist in 2008 OG, the 1st silver medalist for MS dept. That was how Rashid Sidek, CSK/YKH, Razif/Jailani were remembered/featured every OG.
Shortly before 2008 edition, Rashid was getting 'lonely' as the only MS medalist for so many years, he urged LCW to join him & to do one better.
Now, every 4 yrs, LCW can keep Rashid company, & hopefully in future editions, more will follow.:p;)

To the topic, with or without major titles, currently LCW is 2nd best to LD. CJ to me is still 3rd -> 2008 OG gold, OG silver, OG bronze, in that order.:D

[Oldhand]

Considering the ease with which he has beaten some of the top players, Lee Chong Wei is undoubtedly one of the supreme talents of our time.

But that doesn't make him the best - time and again, he has succumbed to several of his peers.

By rank, Lee Chong Wei is now the World No. 1.
However, by titles, he is hardly the World No.1.

It would be great for him if he could better his record against Lin Dan.
For that to happen, two things must come to pass:

- Lin Dan and Lee Chong Wei must meet competitively.
- Lin Dan must lose (again) to Lee Chong Wei.

A fresh moment of reckoning lies just ahead - at the 2009 Sudirman Cup.

[AlanY]

A fresh moment of reckoning lies just ahead - at the 2009 Sudirman Cup.
dont agree with that. singles are so different to the team matches. nobody wanted to lose, especially between LD and LCW, but for Sudirman or Thomas Cup for that matter if CHN and MAS meet there is little chance that CHN will drop points for the WS, WD and XD. thus CHN or LD can afford to drop that point or not even have to field LD at all. as for MAS, LCW cannot afford to drop a single point against any team in the group to if they are to progress further.

[eaglehelang]

Considering the ease with which he has beaten some of the top players, Lee Chong Wei is undoubtedly one of the supreme talents of our time.

But that doesn't make him the best - time and again, he has succumbed to several of his peers.

By rank, Lee Chong Wei is now the World No. 1.
However, by titles, he is hardly the World No.1.

..............

Errr, the thread starter wanted to know if LCW even deserve no 2, 2nd best. He/she even thinks LCW is 3rd or......;)

[Pemuda]

Agree.
Which MAS badminton player, or even MAS sports star, has more endorsement deals and national recognition than LCW?
In fact, my regular JB Yonex store is always hoping LCW wins titles.Reason? His Yonex equipment sales would spike right after a LCW victory.One can assume that happens across all Yonex stores across MAS.
LCW is giving Yonex super value for their money.
LCW is a unique MAS national star because he is popular across all races;not just among the Chinese but also warmly embraced by the majority Malays.
That's why LCW will have no equal as a MAS sports celebrity and will not be forgotten.

First of all, endorsement deals dont really exist in the past, say 30 years ago. So, we cannot really compare sportsmen today against sportsmen of yesteryears based on endorsement deals. The kind of money being dished around by today's sponsors dont really exist when Tan Aik Huang was playing for an example.

Which national sports star has more recognition than LCW? Ok, lets put aside that Datuk title. I would say our national football team in the 70s in terms of recognition and following had a pretty large base. Our Selangor football team too has a pretty decent recognition. Stars like Mokhtar Dahari, Soh Chin Aun & co had the stadiums packed each time they played. And by the way, the crowd was a pretty multi racial one. Other than football, our men's hockey team too had a massive following during the 70s and when they made it to 4th placing in the World Cup, sales of hockey sticks went up. Heard of Rabuan Pit, the national sprinter and once Asia's fastest man? And I am pretty sure when Eddy Choong was playing, he too was warmly embraced by all Malaysians.

[OneToughBirdie]

First of all, endorsement deals dont really exist in the past, say 30 years ago. So, we cannot really compare sportsmen today against sportsmen of yesteryears based on endorsement deals. The kind of money being dished around by today's sponsors dont really exist when Tan Aik Huang was playing for an example.

Which national sports star has more recognition than LCW? Ok, lets put aside that Datuk title. I would say our national football team in the 70s in terms of recognition and following had a pretty large base. Our Selangor football team too has a pretty decent recognition. Stars like Mokhtar Dahari, Soh Chin Aun & co had the stadiums packed each time they played. And by the way, the crowd was a pretty multi racial one. Other than football, our men's hockey team too had a massive following during the 70s and when they made it to 4th placing in the World Cup, sales of hockey sticks went up. Heard of Rabuan Pit, the national sprinter and once Asia's fastest man? And I am pretty sure when Eddy Choong was playing, he too was warmly embraced by all Malaysians.

Moktar and Soh have fulltime jobs at that time and I remember I went along with my big brother to Merdeka Stadium to watch soccer. As for hockey, I remember too as our school was cancelled but we were made to stay around to watch hockey which was bigtime with MAS in SF. The school made us play hockey after that craze, and heck my back hurt:crying: and I need serious massage therapists, err, I mean the legal type, to work on my back:p:D

[pjswift]

First of all, endorsement deals dont really exist in the past, say 30 years ago. So, we cannot really compare sportsmen today against sportsmen of yesteryears based on endorsement deals. The kind of money being dished around by today's sponsors dont really exist when Tan Aik Huang was playing for an example.

Which national sports star has more recognition than LCW? Ok, lets put aside that Datuk title. I would say our national football team in the 70s in terms of recognition and following had a pretty large base. Our Selangor football team too has a pretty decent recognition. Stars like Mokhtar Dahari, Soh Chin Aun & co had the stadiums packed each time they played. And by the way, the crowd was a pretty multi racial one. Other than football, our men's hockey team too had a massive following during the 70s and when they made it to 4th placing in the World Cup, sales of hockey sticks went up. Heard of Rabuan Pit, the national sprinter and once Asia's fastest man? And I am pretty sure when Eddy Choong was playing, he too was warmly embraced by all Malaysians.
Endorsement deals have been around worldwide more than 30 years ago.The scale may not be as huge but in MAS, sports stars may not be big enough to be worth the deal.Even right now,which other sports stars besides KKK/TBH have commercial appeal? Nicole David? Name the brands she's paid to promote.LCW has Proton, Jati,100 Plus, M1 besides Yonex.Which MAS football star (or rather, football team) are that sprinkled with glitter as LCW?
I presume stadiums are no longer packed with football fans now without MD or SCA & co?
What about Rabuan Pit? What happened after his Asia's fastest man record?
Eddy Choong must be especially warmly embraced by women.From what I read of Oon's recollection of his badminton days,EC has exquisitely high EQ with women.The poor Oon suffered sleep deprivation being locked out as EC's unfortunate roommate while EC had his other fun.

[eaglehelang]

Endorsement deals have been around worldwide more than 30 years ago.The scale may not be as huge but in MAS, sports stars may not be big enough to be worth the deal.Even right now,which other sports stars besides KKK/TBH have commercial appeal? Nicole David? Name the brands she's paid to promote.LCW has Proton, Jati,100 Plus, M1 besides Yonex.Which MAS football star (or rather, football team) are that sprinkled with glitter as LCW?
.

Errr, Nicole David's poster appears in CIMB branches. CIMB bank (used to be Bank Bumiputera commerce) is main sponsor for Squash Msia.
The other Msian sports person (current still active) with International endorsement deals is track cyclist Josiah Ng, signed with Fed Ex & a few other companies.

And your fav player LCW now also has an endorsement deal with Maxis(telecomunications), along with his coach Misbun. :)

[koo_fan]

Agree.
LCW is a unique MAS national star because he is popular across all races;not just among the Chinese but also warmly embraced by the majority Malays.
That's why LCW will have no equal as a MAS sports celebrity and will not be forgotten.

Totally Yes. Malaysians will. Badminton community, in a whole, that should be an issue. It'd be nice if we could remember him as one with x-factor that charmed Malaysians' heart. If it was added with recognitions by the world for the well-deserved titles as a WR1, that'd be cool. I don't want to remember him as an ambassador, only.

[robin7]

This is ******** topic. Just another excuse for some MAS hater to type crap about how great Lindan is. Why, forum been too quiet lately?

Eny, you mention Lindan is the better player given the head to head but question if LCW is second best when he have a 6:2 against Chen Jin, 8:4 against Bao and 5:1 against Gade. So what happen, your head got transfer to your ass momentarily?

All players blunder sometimes. Chen Jin lost to Chong Wei Fang, Bao out first round of HK open after beating LCW a week ago, Lindan got axes in early round of China open.

But like I said, I understand this is just another excuse for the MAS hater cronies to go at it after some quiet times in this forum. Get a life.
Well said.

This thread is redundant as I chose to ignore till I read your post.

I was like ROFL when I read the highlighted statement.

Yes, LCW is the top 2 player in the world.

[pjswift]

Errr, Nicole David's poster appears in CIMB branches. CIMB bank (used to be Bank Bumiputera commerce) is main sponsor for Squash Msia.
The other Msian sports person (current still active) with International endorsement deals is track cyclist Josiah Ng, signed with Fed Ex & a few other companies.

And your fav player LCW now also has an endorsement deal with Maxis(telecomunications), along with his coach Misbun. :)
My fav player LCW? I'm most impressed with how he has broken down every barrier to perform at the highest level and broken new grounds for badminton as a sport but I have no fav player.
It's great for Nicole to be sponsored by CIMB.I 'm not sure if appearing in CIMB posters equates endorsement; maybe to promote the tournament.If CIMB appears on her gear, then it's more positive.CIMB does an excellent job in promoting squash and supporting Nicole.I'm happy for her.
Josiah Ng sounds like one sports star to watch.A bit off-topic but if ok, do tell more.
Sorry, got mixed up there. Of course it's Maxis, not M1(which is a Spore brand.)
Thanks, eaglehelang,for furnishing details.

[Pemuda]

Endorsement deals have been around worldwide more than 30 years ago.The scale may not be as huge but in MAS, sports stars may not be big enough to be worth the deal.

Lets not get all confused here. I said; "First of all, endorsement deals dont really exist in the past, say 30 years ago. So, we cannot really compare sportsmen today against sportsmen of yesteryears based on endorsement deals. The kind of money being dished around by today's sponsors dont really exist when Tan Aik Huang was playing for an example."

If you say endorsement deals have been around worldwide more than 30 years ago, and that MAS sports star being not big enough enough to be worth the deal, tell me then what kind of mega endorsement deals does Flemming Delfs had when he was playing, do bear in mind the man won the WC in 1977.


Even right now,which other sports stars besides KKK/TBH have commercial appeal? Nicole David? Name the brands she's paid to promote.LCW has Proton, Jati,100 Plus, M1 besides Yonex.Which MAS football star (or rather, football team) are that sprinkled with glitter as LCW?
I presume stadiums are no longer packed with football fans now without MD or SCA & co?
What about Rabuan Pit? What happened after his Asia's fastest man record?
Eddy Choong must be especially warmly embraced by women.From what I read of Oon's recollection of his badminton days,EC has exquisitely high EQ with women.The poor Oon suffered sleep deprivation being locked out as EC's unfortunate roommate while EC had his other fun.

Aiks ... you are now talking about present day & KKK/TBH?? I was replying to your following question;


Which MAS badminton player, or even MAS sports star, has more endorsement deals and national recognition than LCW?

Football stadiums no longer packed?? I said when Mokhtar, Chin Aun & co were playing during the 70s they generated a big following amongst all Malaysians. To put it simply to you LCW is not the ONLY MAS sports star that is warmly embraced by all Malaysians as there were others.

What happened to Rabuan's record? Like most records, they have been bettered with time. But the fact remains that Rabuan Pit too was warmly embraced by ALL Malaysians. And so was Dr. Jegathesan, Istieq Murbarak.

In summary, we have a host of sports personalities that have touched our hearts in our 51 years of history as an independent nation.

[Athelete1234]

Well LCW is beating everybody but LD, who's beating everybody, so yeahh I'd say he's at least #1-2 in the world.

[eaglehelang]

Josiah Ng sounds like one sports star to watch.A bit off-topic but if ok, do tell more.
Sorry, got mixed up there. Of course it's Maxis, not M1(which is a Spore brand.)
Thanks, eaglehelang,for furnishing details.

I think more on this should be discussed in "Lee Chong Wei" thread, where anything & everything abt LCW is discussed.;) LOL, I was wondering what M1 was. More likely Josiah's juniors -Azizul & Rizal are the next stars, recently they won Msia's 1st bronze & silver in cycling's WC.

[Athelete1234]

If you compare PF with HH....essentially the same level if you count by titles: 1 AE, and PG never won the WC or olympics.

[jasonmarc]

No one will forget LCW. He has made alot of impact for Malaysian badminton.

ya, also impacts in the world badminton....just look at these peoples who like to talk about him, argue about him,.......:eek:....:D:D

[george@chongwei]

ya, also impacts in the world badminton....just look at these peoples who like to talk about him, argue about him,.......:eek:....:D:D
yep, and he's got many 'fans' too:D when he lost or win, there will be surely a thread specially for him, that shows he is very popular and is the top 2 player in the world currently:)

[Pemuda]

As a pro shuttler, what is more important; having more fans or titles, major titles??

If a shuttler's goal is to have more fans, then badminton is not the arena. He/she should go into acting as being a movie star whether grade A or B or the C list will definitely get you loads of fans.

[Pemuda]

Moktar and Soh have fulltime jobs at that time and I remember I went along with my big brother to Merdeka Stadium to watch soccer. As for hockey, I remember too as our school was cancelled but we were made to stay around to watch hockey which was bigtime with MAS in SF. The school made us play hockey after that craze, and heck my back hurt:crying: and I need serious massage therapists, err, I mean the legal type, to work on my back:p:D

I never had the chance to watch either Mokhtar or Chin Aun in action but I have heard & read stories about them. Anyway, I met Chin Aun a few times before and he is a very down to earth Datuk. His knowledge about football is second to none.

:)

[OneToughBirdie]

I never had the chance to watch either Mokhtar or Chin Aun in action but I have heard & read stories about them. Anyway, I met Chin Aun a few times before and he is a very down to earth Datuk. His knowledge about football is second to none.

:)

Moktar Dahari, I remember was the premier striker for MAS and a feared forward. I think he was actually invited to try out for an English team (I couldn't remember which one) and I was at Stadium Merdeka when he scored that curved goal against Kevin Keegan and his Liverpool team ini the exhibition game. In Merdeka Cup, teams have to double tag him to prevent him from breaking loose and score. Chin Aun was capitan and mid-fielder and Arumugan was the goalie. Before Arumugan was the Keong fella, the acrobatic goalie, good but too fancy. I was a young lad then, probably 15, a little less dashing than you:p:D;)

[danielwong]

I never had the chance to watch either Mokhtar or Chin Aun in action but I have heard & read stories about them. Anyway, I met Chin Aun a few times before and he is a very down to earth Datuk. His knowledge about football is second to none.

:)


Moktar Dahari, I remember was the premier striker for MAS and a feared forward. I think he was actually invited to try out for an English team (I couldn't remember which one) and I was at Stadium Merdeka when he scored that curved goal against Kevin Keegan and his Liverpool team ini the exhibition game. In Merdeka Cup, teams have to double tag him to prevent him from breaking loose and score. Chin Aun was capitan and mid-fielder and Arumugan was the goalie. Before Arumugan was the Keong fella, the acrobatic goalie, good but too fancy. I was a young lad then, probably 15, a little less dashing than you:p:D;)


i enjoyed the above conversation but to respect this thread owner
lets stick to the topic...:D:D
yes LCW is the 2nd best now, he cant chase LD no matter how
hard he try for the next few years...what he can do now is to beat
LD regularly and win at least one major title....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Amin Khalili]

welll ...
everybody have different opinion

[koo_fan]

yes LCW is the 2nd best now, he cant chase LD no matter how
hard he try for the next few years...what he can do now is to beat
LD regularly and win at least one major title....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

That's the painful truth, yea. With his new Proton car, would that boost him up? I hope so. :cool: A WC final in India will make me happy.

[Pemuda]

i enjoyed the above conversation but to respect this thread owner
lets stick to the topic...:D:D
yes LCW is the 2nd best now, he cant chase LD no matter how
hard he try for the next few years...what he can do now is to beat
LD regularly and win at least one major title....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Hello bro, they are talking about Proton cars in that Will LCW remain as WR1 till OG 2012 thread. Need you to go over there double quick to ensure the thread stick to its topic and that the thread owner's honour and pride remains intact and all.

Here, let me show you the way .... http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1151360&postcount=218

... and remember to shut the door on your way out. :D

Love n kisses.

[dream18]

It doesn't matter who's WR1.. LD or LCW... they are all good players... if they can represent their own country, they are all great players.

[Jonc108]

Quality (LD) is better than Quantity (LCW), look at the current WR from another perspective, points earned per tournament (as of 14 May 09):

RankFamily NamePlayer NameNACInd. PtsTeam PtsI.TT.TTotalPointsPoints per TournamtRank1LEEChong WeiMAS754208759.14911084179.148418 22GADEPeter HoegDEN592805403.17911064683.176468 43LINDanCHN530009039.561762039.58863 14CHENJinCHN533606493.9581959853.956650 3

And head-to-head record in major events: LD 11 : LCW 6


时间
赛事
胜者
2009年3月
2009瑞士羽毛球超级系列赛
李宗伟
2009年3月
2009全英羽毛球超级系列赛
林丹
2008年11月
中国羽毛球公开赛
林丹
2008年8月
北京奥运会决赛
林丹
2008年5月
汤姆斯杯半决赛
李宗伟
2008年3月16日
瑞士羽毛球超级系列赛
林丹
2007年12月2日
香港羽毛球超级赛
林丹
2007年9月16日
日本羽毛球公开赛
李宗伟
2007年7月15日
中国羽毛球超级系列赛
林丹
2007年6月
苏迪曼杯小组赛
李宗伟
2006年12月2日
香港羽毛球公开赛
林丹
2006年7月23日
澳门羽毛球公开赛
林丹
2006年6月25日
台北羽毛球公开赛
林丹
2006年6月18日
马来西亚羽毛球公开赛
李宗伟
2006年1月22日
全英羽毛球公开赛
林丹
2005年12月6日
香港羽毛球锦标赛
林丹
2005年7月10日
马来西亚羽毛球公开赛
李宗伟


Facts speak for itself...

[laivc]

Quality (LD) is better than Quantity (LCW), look at the current WR from another perspective, points earned per tournament (as of 14 May 09):

RankFamily NamePlayer NameNACInd. PtsTeam PtsI.TT.TTotalPointsPoints per TournamtRank1LEEChong WeiMAS754208759.14911084179.148418 22GADEPeter HoegDEN592805403.17911064683.176468 43LINDanCHN530009039.561762039.58863 14CHENJinCHN533606493.9581959853.956650 3

And head-to-head record in major events: LD 11 : LCW 6


时间
赛事
胜者
2009年3月
2009瑞士羽毛球超级系列赛
李宗伟
2009年3月
2009全英羽毛球超级系列赛
林丹
2008年11月
中国羽毛球公开赛
林丹
2008年8月
北京奥运会决赛
林丹
2008年5月
汤姆斯杯半决赛
李宗伟
2008年3月16日
瑞士羽毛球超级系列赛
林丹
2007年12月2日
香港羽毛球超级赛
林丹
2007年9月16日
日本羽毛球公开赛
李宗伟
2007年7月15日
中国羽毛球超级系列赛
林丹
2007年6月
苏迪曼杯小组赛
李宗伟
2006年12月2日
香港羽毛球公开赛
林丹
2006年7月23日
澳门羽毛球公开赛
林丹
2006年6月25日
台北羽毛球公开赛
林丹
2006年6月18日
马来西亚羽毛球公开赛
李宗伟
2006年1月22日
全英羽毛球公开赛
林丹
2005年12月6日
香港羽毛球锦标赛
林丹
2005年7月10日
马来西亚羽毛球公开赛
李宗伟


Facts speak for itself...


I think it is more like LD 13 : LCW 4, the 2008 Thomas Cup winner China w LD and LCW was only semi-finalist with M'sia; and the 2007 Sudirman Cup winner is China w LD and not LCW's M'sia. Furthermore, at least one of the wins from LCW were won with LD's absent in the same competitions, eg 2007 Japan Open.:)

[amaze]

I think it is more like LD 13 : LCW 4, the 2008 Thomas Cup winner China w LD and LCW was only semi-finalist with M'sia; and the 2007 Sudirman Cup winner is China w LD and not LCW's M'sia. Furthermore, at least one of the wins from LCW were won with LD's absent in the same competitions, eg 2007 Japan Open.:)

Didn't Chong Wei bt Lin Dan and Taufik enroute to the title that year ?

[eaglehelang]

...........
Given that it is generally acknowledged that LD is the best player in the world today (titles and Head to Head results), is LCW #2?
.................

I thought it was interesting that LCW has earned most of his results without having to beat CHN top guns. He is a great, great player and has been incredibly consistent over the last year, and has earned the #1 points ranking by being so consistent. But I don't know that he is even the #2"best" player in the world right now.

What do you think?
Portions of the original poster's question. The LD is the best,etc discussion have already been done in the preceding pages.

[limsy]

Furthermore, at least one of the wins from LCW were won with LD's absent in the same competitions, eg 2007 Japan Open.:)


Didn't Chong Wei bt Lin Dan and Taufik enroute to the title that year ?

oh my god:eek:
lindan absent in 2007 japan open?then who lcw beat in semis?ghost?:confused:
anyone can help me find out?:rolleyes:

[james_m]

with all due respect to everyone here, i just want to say that all this debate about who's better is never going to end...i think that both LCW and LD are good players...just happens that LD has shown more results

[evylgrynn]

Take the formal ranking out of way, we have personal opinions. But we also need a set a context for opinions. Let's say the context is, "Rank the best players who were active in the past 12 months." Undoubtedly, LD will top this list for most people.

The main question of this thread is whether LCW even deserves the 2nd place in the list. In my opinion, he does. Simply because no one else does. Sure, LCW has lost to some players in the past 12 months, most recently CL. But does that make CL the 2nd best player? Hardly.

Now, if the context is, "Rank the best players in the past 2 years / 5 years / 10 years". Then, it would be different. Because I can at the very least think of TH as the better player than LCW.

Good points in this post. After thinking about it some more, I do believe that DLCW is the #2 best player in the world. My post was not intended to bash anybody, but simply to raise the question of "has DLCW benefitted from China's absence on the world stage, not only LD but the other top CHN players". However these are all "ifs" and given the results I would say that DLCW belongs in the top 2 in the world along with LD (but still behind LD :D)

[george@chongwei]

oh my god:eek:
lindan absent in 2007 japan open?then who lcw beat in semis?ghost?:confused:
anyone can help me find out?:rolleyes:
maybe we are living in a dream land?:eek::D

[laivc]

maybe we are living in a dream land?:eek::D

:oSorry for wrong info, LCW did indeed beat LD in the 2007 Japan Open semi-final, 21-19, 21-15. The tally should read 12 : 5 in LD favour.:)

[laivc]

:oSorry for wrong info, LCW did indeed beat LD in the 2007 Japan Open semi-final, 21-19, 21-15. The tally should read 12 : 5 in LD favour.:)

Now is 13 : 5 after yesterday.:)

[player81]

In my opinion, Lin Dan is better than Lee Chong Wei. But i am sure that Lee Chong Wei is the player Lin Dan worry the most.

Anyway, we must also respect the World Ranking No 1 that achieved by Lee Chong Wei. All the points are earn by his effort.

[Jonc108]

In my opinion, Lin Dan is better than Lee Chong Wei. But i am sure that Lee Chong Wei is the player Lin Dan worry the most.

Anyway, we must also respect the World Ranking No 1 that achieved by Lee Chong Wei. All the points are earn by his effort.

As you said, everyone agrees that LD is much better than LCW and who's the real world no.1... and it is normal that world no.2 and 3 are the players that world no.1 worries the most...

For the WR, everyone should respect a player's effort including LCW's, yet it's the ranking system itself that makes people hard to respect, and makes LCW's no.1 not convincing.

This ranking system emphasizes on quantity instead of quality. Even you follows its point system, but look at the average points earned per tournament (or championship per tournament), you would know who's the leading player on top of the list.

The feeling is just like, if you ask who's the King in the jungle, someone tells you it's the cow which is the most hardworking... instead of the lion...

[eaglehelang]

The above has already been discussed in another thread abt whether LCW will maintain his ranking till 2012. And there're reasons for LCW to maintain his WR in the top 2, one of which is the incentives he will get.