[Stats] The Strongest MD Team Currently!

[narnia]

Even though this issue has been long talked in another thread(JJS/LYD), I think this should be an interesting topic to be discussed beyond some specific players' threads.

So, for your information, I collected recent stats for the top 8 players in BWF ranking. Please share your idea about this.

Who do you think the best MD team in the world, among the teams currently playing?

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(note: I don't intend to advocate a specific team. The table will be updated as the tourneys finish.)

Enjoy!

[abedeng]

No, we can't really read that the highest ratio shows the strongest players.

What about the number of losses against lower ranked players or early exits in tournaments? That too has to count.

In the end, the World Ranking is still the best measure of the strongest and most consistent players. And we shouldn't bring the draw into the equation, because that is a dynamic variable controlled by no one. Eg. So-and-so player wins because the draw is weak, another stronger player loses because the luck of the draw cannot be used as excuse. A player only wins because he/she is the best of the day, not because of luck.

[narnia]

No, we can't really read that the highest ratio shows the strongest players.

What about the number of losses against lower ranked players or early exits in tournaments? That too has to count.

In the end, the World Ranking is still the best measure of the strongest and most consistent players. And we shouldn't bring the draw into the equation, because that is a dynamic variable controlled by no one. Eg. So-and-so player wins because the draw is weak, another stronger player loses because the luck of the draw cannot be used as excuse. A player only wins because he/she is the best of the day, not because of luck.

Yes, that's another option you can take.

IMO, you can really know the strongest only from the matches between the strongest.

:)

[habsq]

So, for your information, I collected recent stats for the top 8 players in BWF ranking. Please share your idea about this.
Hi, from which ranking did you take the 8 teams from? I couldn't seem to find AC/NR from the top 8...

[ctjcad]

...

What about the number of losses against lower ranked players or early exits in tournaments? That too has to count.
...

Yes, that's another option you can take.

IMO, you can really know the strongest only from the matches between the strongest.

:)
..yup, that's another option if narnia wants to take up the challenge/effort.

narnia, may i suggest if you want to provide those stats, is to create a table for each individual pair and list their opponents/all the tourneys they've participated in; you'll then have 10 different tables.

And i do think stats showing the top 10 pairs is pretty justifiable. Afterall, it reflects those pairs who've competed in enough BWF-sanctioned tourneys to be considered as one of the top pairs.
Also, the reason head-to-head stats vs. lower ranked pairs don't really count much is because, simply, the lower ranked pairs just didn't play in enough tourneys or garner enough pts to be on equal terms esp. with those top pairs who'd competed in more tourneys.

[suetyan]

Actually there are so many arguments regarding the strongest MD. In fact, there are no strong and weak among the top 10 pairs in the BWF ranking. They are all strong. It is just a matter that, which pair is mentally and physically better on the particular day, the pair might win the match.

[narnia]

Actually there are so many arguments regarding the strongest MD. In fact, there are no strong and weak among the top 10 pairs in the BWF ranking. They are all strong. It is just a matter that, which pair is mentally and physically better on the particular day, the pair might win the match.

I totally agree. But the stats show something meaningful.

[badadum]

How can one be called the strongest MD team when it has tendency to crack and withered at the most crucial times? Case in point 1st round OG, final round of SC...heck even with the support of the local linesmen in KO, they still managed to get dominated pretty badly.

[Siegfried_Li]

I don't want to comment more than the two "MAS9" that JJS/LYD defeated KKK/TBH.

[Cheung]

It is quite useful in a general sense.

Apart from Abedeng's points, does it take into account the 1st round byes?

[huangkwokhau]

Narnia will create the post just to show that LYD/JJS is the strongest....again....it does not matter if the ratio of winning is 90% if LYD/JJS failed in winning BIG event like WC or OG...it is pretty useless....like KKK/TBH won everytime over MK?HS but lost to them on OG....
To me..LYD/JJS is not even strongest MD at all....still way to go...you can ask Ha Tae Wan

[n|mr0d]

How would you treat this scenario? Team A always landing in the finals for 8 SS, but always losing to 8 different oponents. Their winning percentage is 0%

If we want to use data to back-up whoever is the strongest, lets use the world rankings.

[badMania]

Narnia will create the post just to show that LYD/JJS is the strongest....again....it does not matter if the ratio of winning is 90% if LYD/JJS failed in winning BIG event like WC or OG...it is pretty useless....like KKK/TBH won everytime over MK?HS but lost to them on OG....
To me..LYD/JJS is not even strongest MD at all....still way to go...you can ask Ha Tae Wan

No problem bro. As I wrote in the other thread, he/she fails to account for some of Kido/Hendra's victories as well ;) Nevertheless, even Paaske/Rasmussen had a better record than Kido/Hendra.

Each individual has their interpretation of who is the strongest MD pair in the World. And that interpretation changes with time too. During the first half of 2007, Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong and Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun are clearly the best as they sweep almost everything in offer. However, that changed in the second half of 2007 all the way to Jan 2008 where Markis Kido/Hendra Setiawan dominated the scene by winning 3 SS titles, the World Championships and 1 GP Gold title in the short space of 6 mths.

From Mar onwards to May, I will agree that Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae dominated the MD as they won the All England, Swiss SS, and Badminton Asia Championships 2009. However, like always, Kido/Hendra were in the limelight once more from August onwards till early November as they won everything in sight and lost only one time to Rian/Yoke; winning 3 SS titles and the Beijing Olympic Golds.

From mid Nov onwards, Jung/Lee were back in business as they won 3 SS in a row till early Jan before Jung was called to army service. Since then, there is clearly no dominant pair as Jung/Lee already lost 3 times this year, while Kido/Hendra also registered the same amount of defeat.

[badMania]

If we want to use data to back-up whoever is the strongest, lets use the world rankings.

Be warned that our resident KOR fan will use the same statement that he/she frequently used in terms of the World Rankings ;) Oh...to him, titles are not important too :)

[n|mr0d]

Be warned that our resident KOR fan will use the same statement that he/she frequently used in terms of the World Rankings ;) Oh...to him, titles are not important too :)

Thanks for the warning :) . I am familiar with narnia. I have been at the background of BC for 5 years now.

[Athelete1234]

No problem bro. As I wrote in the other thread, he/she fails to account for some of Kido/Hendra's victories as well ;) Nevertheless, even Paaske/Rasmussen had a better record than Kido/Hendra.

Each individual has their interpretation of who is the strongest MD pair in the World. And that interpretation changes with time too. During the first half of 2007, Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong and Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun are clearly the best as they sweep almost everything in offer. However, that changed in the second half of 2007 all the way to Jan 2008 where Markis Kido/Hendra Setiawan dominated the scene by winning 3 SS titles, the World Championships and 1 GP Gold title in the short space of 6 mths.

From Mar onwards to May, I will agree that Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae dominated the MD as they won the All England, Swiss SS, and Badminton Asia Championships 2009. However, like always, Kido/Hendra were in the limelight once more from August onwards till early November as they won everything in sight and lost only one time to Rian/Yoke; winning 3 SS titles and the Beijing Olympic Golds.

From mid Nov onwards, Jung/Lee were back in business as they won 3 SS in a row till early Jan before Jung was called to army service. Since then, there is clearly no dominant pair as Jung/Lee already lost 3 times this year, while Kido/Hendra also registered the same amount of defeat.
FHF/CY have been pretty good, winning AE, all matches in Sudirman cup.

[badMania]

FHF/CY have been pretty good, winning AE, all matches in Sudirman cup.

Yup....so far this year, they have been better compared to last year. They lost only once to Koo/Tan in the Swiss SS this year.

I don't think Cai Yun's age will allow them to compete in 2 tourneys in a row and won them both. So, it's good that they have been very selective in their tournament selection.

[ctjcad]

Actually there are so many arguments regarding the strongest MD. In fact, there are no strong and weak among the top 10 pairs in the BWF ranking. They are all strong. It is just a matter that, which pair is mentally and physically better on the particular day, the pair might win the match.

I totally agree. But the stats show something meaningful.
..they are all strong, but if anything, yes, the points, stats, winning percentage, titles, world ranking are the best indicators to know where the top pairs stand.

How would you treat this scenario? Team A always landing in the finals for 8 SS, but always losing to 8 different oponents. Their winning percentage is 0%

If we want to use data to back-up whoever is the strongest, lets use the world rankings.
- If Team A is LYD & JJS, they did win some titles to back up their Finals Round appearances in 2008.
- I think narnia has used the world ranking of the top 10 MD pairs to provide his datas.

narnia is fine arguing his points here, as long as he can provide datas to back up his claims (as shown by the graphic in the previous page).:cool:

[george@chongwei]

wow, this shows that u are indeed a superb stats collectors, narnia. please keep up the good work;)

[n|mr0d]

..

- If Team A is LYD & JJS, they did win some titles to back up their Finals Round appearances in 2008.
- I think narnia has used the world ranking of the top 10 MD pairs to provide his datas.


Team A as I mentioned it, does not refer to any team. It's just an illustration.

[ctjcad]

..the conclusion is their winning percentage in the Finals Rd is yes, 0 %.
However, we don't know if their 8 different opponents are ranked in the top 10 or not. narnia was illustrating/giving datas comparing the top 10 MD pairs' head-to-head records.

[narnia]

Okay, thanks for the many comments.

In short, in the master table, I decided to remove AC/NR as they are a new partnership not in top 10 in BWF, and Fuzzy as they are not qualified with too low winning % of around 20% against the Tops. Esp. Fuzzy could get some titles with BWF points when many other top players did not participate in the tourneys after Olympics. MK/HS also got some titles at the time to keep their current BWF ranking. (In fact, the BWF ranking doesn't tell us who's the real strongest team among the strongest. It's only based on the titles.)

Anyway, it's come down to 6 top teams. Please note that no other official BWF team currently playing has more than 20% of winning % against these 6 teams. These 6 teams are current tops.

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(SSF8: Super Series Finals 2008)

Let's check the status again among the Tops;

- JJS/LYD still has the winning % of 72% against the other top 5 MD teams.
- FHF/CY has 60% with not sufficient matches. (they had some split times in 2008.)
- MK/HS has 50%, the only team they never beaten is JJS/LYD for the period.
- KKK/TBH had the most number of matches (19) but didn't win even half of them.

Enjoy~ :)

[narnia]

Sorry, Updated again. (JJS/LYD's MAS9 was double counted.)

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[narnia]

It is quite useful in a general sense.

Apart from Abedeng's points, does it take into account the 1st round byes?

The stats counted all matches ever played actually.

[narnia]

How would you treat this scenario? Team A always landing in the finals for 8 SS, but always losing to 8 different oponents. Their winning percentage is 0%

If we want to use data to back-up whoever is the strongest, lets use the world rankings.

No, that could be called as "title-achieving" %, which doesn't reflect how strong they are.

If Team A had landed in the finals it must have beaten some Top teams. I counted this stats and call it Winning % against the other Top teams.

In short, I'm choosing "relative measure" among the top players to assess who's the strongest MD team.

[haifeng4ever]

Kinda surprised me that Fuzzy pair were included in this statistic. :D

[narnia]

Kinda surprised me that Fuzzy pair were included in this statistic. :D

Yeah, I was thinking over that, too. So, in the updated table, I omitted the pair and AC/NR.

[ctjcad]

..and they are:
- Could you provide head-to-head stats between those pairs that were ranked in the top 10 @ the end of 2008?
- Could you provide overall win-loss records for each of those pairs that were ranked in the top 10 @ the end of 2008?
I'm looking for their stats just for the yr 2008, no more & no less.
Thanks in advance..:)

[narnia]

..and they are:
- Could you provide head-to-head stats between those pairs that were ranked in the top 10 @ the end of 2008?
- Could you provide overall win-loss records for each of those pairs that were ranked in the top 10 @ the end of 2008?
I'm looking for their stats just for the yr 2008, no more & no less.
Thanks in advance..:)

You can just count what you want to see in the master table. 8 means 2008.
As I discussed, to know the strongest, 6 teams are enough; the other 4 are just so and so less than 20% of winning % against the other tops. They're not actually tops despite the BWF ranking; that's why I asked you to check the ranking system line by line; only when you correctly understand the ranking system you can know why they're ranked in top 10 even though they are not that strong. :)

[Siegfried_Li]

Based on this approach, JJS is quite strong (also I think he is pretty good) and LYD is a minor factor, as LYD/SBC lost to MB/CM thus have a 0-1 record. On the other hand, the records for CY/XC are 1-0 over KKK/TBH, 1-0 over LP/JR and 0-2 to MK/HS, for FHF/SY 2-0 over MB/CM, 1-0 over NR/AC, 1-0 over LP/JR and 0-1 to MK/HS (CY/XC 1-0 FHF/SY). FHF looks so strong...

[badMania]

Based on this approach, JJS is quite strong (also I think he is pretty good) and LYD is a minor factor, as LYD/SBC lost to MB/CM thus have a 0-1 record. On the other hand, the records for CY/XC are 1-0 over KKK/TBH, 1-0 over LP/JR and 0-2 to MK/HS, for FHF/SY 2-0 over MB/CM, 1-0 over NR/AC, 1-0 over LP/JR and 0-1 to MK/HS (CY/XC 1-0 FHF/SY). FHF looks so strong...

In that case, Fu Haifeng/Shen Ye's record over the top 6 pairs is 3-1 (75%).

[ctjcad]

You can just count what you want to see in the master table. 8 means 2008.
As I discussed, to know the strongest, 6 teams are enough; the other 4 are just so and so less than 20% of winning % against the other tops. They're not actually tops despite the BWF ranking; that's why I asked you to check the ranking system line by line; only when you correctly understand the ranking system you can know why they're ranked in top 10 even though they are not that strong. :)
- Why the top 6 only? Why not top 5 only? Or top 3 only?:confused:
- I'd like to "read/check more of what's in the ranking system line by line" if you can pin-point me to a link where i can read it.:cool:
My only hunch on why the other 4 pairs are in the top 10 is because they played in more tourneys than those pairs outside of the top 10 or even the other top 6 pairs.
- My request was to accommodate others' queries about the overall win-loss record from each of the top 10 pairs; showing total wins or losses accummulated over 2008. But if you feel it's not necessary, then we understand.:cool:

[narnia]

In that case, Fu Haifeng/Shen Ye's record over the top 6 pairs is 3-1 (75%).

Cool. Any possibility they will prove their consistent strength by pairing in more tourneys in the future?

[narnia]

- Why the top 6 only? Why not top 5 only? Or top 3 only?:confused:
- I'd like to "read/check more of what's in the ranking system line by line" if you can pin-point me to a link where i can read it.:cool:
My only hunch on why the other 4 pairs are in the top 10 is because they played in more tourneys than those pairs outside of the top 10 or even the other top 6 pairs.
- My request was to accommodate others' queries about the overall win-loss record from each of the top 10 pairs; showing total wins or losses accummulated over 2008. But if you feel it's not necessary, then we understand.:cool:

- The top 6 teams are very well known as actual top players; they proved it by many tourneys and they have always positioned in the top seeds. As mentioned before, the Fuzzy team ranked in #7 has only 20% of winning % against the top 6, which means the other low-ranked teams have less % or they had not have enough matches against the top 6 to be considered. Top 5 or 3 could be alternatives but the 6 teams are well established and proven teams to be considered.

- Here is the link; Part III, Section 1, Appendix 6
http://www.internationalbadminton.org/page.aspx?id=10513

- You can check the other stats using the master table.

Enjoy! :)

[ctjcad]

..
- Here is the link; Part III, Section 1, Appendix 6
http://www.internationalbadminton.org/page.aspx?id=10513
...
..thank you for the link. I read through it once and i skimmed through it again. But i still have no clue what in the world do we still need to know abt the ranking system? :confused:
Sorry, but do you mind just explaining it to us??:confused:

[badMania]

..thank you for the link. I read through it once and i skimmed through it again. But i still have no clue what in the world do we still need to know abt the ranking system? :confused:
Sorry, but do you mind just explaining it to us??:confused:

Come on Chris, I am sure u understand what our resident KOR fan here is trying to say ;) In fact, he has mentioned it several times in his ealier posts :o

[ctjcad]

..what "line by line ranking system rules" are there that i've missed??..:confused:
"domination"?? what does that have got to do w/the "line by line ranking system rules"??..:confused:

[badMania]

..what "line by line ranking system rules" are there that i've missed??..:confused:
"domination"?? what does that have got to do w/the "line by line ranking system rules"??..:confused:

Line by line -- meaning u have to look at the number of tournaments that each top 10 pair participates in "line by line" so that you wiill "understand why they're ranked in top 10 even though they are not that strong." :)

I believe our resident KOR fan here is once again trying to emphasize that despite being ranked at no 5 in the WR table right now, Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae is in fact the STRONGEST and MOST DOMINANT MD pair right now, as looking at the rankings line by line and in particular the number of tourneys, you will discover that Jung/Lee in fact participate in 8 tourneys only, as compared to those above them (all have 10) ;)

[badMania]

Or in other words:
No 1 in the World = Current World and Olympics Champions --> 10 tourneys --> inferior head-to-head stats --> NOT DOMINANT.

No 5 in the World = World Championships Runner-Up + First-Round Exit at Olympics (not important at all!) --> 8 tourneys only --> by far the BEST head-to-head-stats (this is by far the most important thing that we should be looking at) --> the MOST DOMINANT PAIR IN THE WORLD!

[Jagdpanther]

Or in other words:
No 1 in the World = Current World and Olympics Champions --> 10 tourneys --> inferior head-to-head stats --> NOT DOMINANT.

No 5 in the World = World Championships Runner-Up + First-Round Exit at Olympics (not important at all!) --> 8 tourneys only --> by far the BEST head-to-head-stats (this is by far the most important thing that we should be looking at) --> the MOST DOMINANT PAIR IN THE WORLD!
Told you, the method used already different.
How can compare? :o

[narnia]

Finally, the Top-4 come up in INA 2009; their matches will change the table.

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P.S. Please check out the scoring graphs for the QF matches of the top teams; the top 4 are real strong against the other lower-ranked teams; that's why the teams like Fuzzy can't be in this "who's the strongest" competition.

Enjoy~ :)

[ye333]

Let's see what happens tomorrow. The best MD semifinal lineup so far this year. :)


Or in other words:
No 1 in the World = Current World and Olympics Champions --> 10 tourneys --> inferior head-to-head stats --> NOT DOMINANT.

No 5 in the World = World Championships Runner-Up + First-Round Exit at Olympics (not important at all!) --> 8 tourneys only --> by far the BEST head-to-head-stats (this is by far the most important thing that we should be looking at) --> the MOST DOMINANT PAIR IN THE WORLD!

[Athelete1234]

(note: I don't intend to advocate a specific team. The table will be updated as the tourneys finish.)

Enjoy!
If you don't advocate a specific team, why highlight/circle/outline the fact that JJS/LYD have the best score according to your method? Why not let the facts speak for themselves instead of you shamelessly circling their totals? Would you do the same thing if CY/FHF were in the lead?

[Jagdpanther]

If you don't advocate a specific team, why highlight/circle/outline the fact that JJS/LYD have the best score according to your method? Why not let the facts speak for themselves instead of you shamelessly circling their totals? Would you do the same thing if CY/FHF were in the lead?
Well, if you've been following the LYD/JJS thread, you'll understand that s/he's trying so hard with every methods possible, to prove that his gods are the best of the bests of the bests MD in the world... :rolleyes:

[ctjcad]

Line by line -- meaning u have to look at the number of tournaments that each top 10 pair participates in "line by line" so that you wiill "understand why they're ranked in top 10 even though they are not that strong." :)

I believe our resident KOR fan here is once again trying to emphasize that despite being ranked at no 5 in the WR table right now, Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae is in fact the STRONGEST and MOST DOMINANT MD pair right now, as looking at the rankings line by line and in particular the number of tourneys, you will discover that Jung/Lee in fact participate in 8 tourneys only, as compared to those above them (all have 10) ;)
- I hope you're right on with what narnia meant by "reading the ranking system line by line"..:cool:
- If that's what he meant, then didn't i post the same thing earlier? That it's all about the number of tourneys the top 10 MD pairs have participated in? If so, what is there to be surprised abt??..:confused:..

Or in other words:
No 1 in the World = Current World and Olympics Champions --> 10 tourneys --> inferior head-to-head stats --> NOT DOMINANT.

No 5 in the World = World Championships Runner-Up + First-Round Exit at Olympics (not important at all!) --> 8 tourneys only --> by far the BEST head-to-head-stats (this is by far the most important thing that we should be looking at) --> the MOST DOMINANT PAIR IN THE WORLD!
..btw, i also count the AE tourney as one of the top, prestigious baddy tourneys besides the Olympics. Those two, IMO, are tops.
Kido & Setiawan have the Olympics title to brag abt; LYD & JJS have the AE title to brag abt.

Finally, the Top-4 come up in INA 2009; their matches will change the table.
...

Let's see what happens tomorrow. The best MD semifinal lineup so far this year. :)
..nod, nod, nod...those are some delicious looking MD lineup i've ever seen in quite some time. I guess after all the dust is settled, later tomorrow, we'll find out, which pairs are really the top dawgs in MD..:cool:

If you don't advocate a specific team, why highlight/circle/outline the fact that JJS/LYD have the best score according to your method? Why not let the facts speak for themselves instead of you shamelessly circling their totals? Would you do the same thing if CY/FHF were in the lead?
..i think narnia has shown the facts and they speak for themselves. Nothing to argue there, despite his LYD & JJS-biased approach. What he probably needs to provide also, IMO, is the overall record for each of the top 10 MD pairs so we can see and compare each of the pairs' real & complete stats/record.

[narnia]

Well, if you've been following the LYD/JJS thread, you'll understand that s/he's trying so hard with every methods possible, to prove that his gods are the best of the bests of the bests MD in the world... :rolleyes:

Sorry, I have been using only one measure consistently - H2H stats among the tops.

Enjoy~ :)

[narnia]

If you don't advocate a specific team, why highlight/circle/outline the fact that JJS/LYD have the best score according to your method? Why not let the facts speak for themselves instead of you shamelessly circling their totals? Would you do the same thing if CY/FHF were in the lead?

That's because the purpose of this thread is to identify "the strongest" so I did that. Any problem?

Yeah, as I said, I will update the table as the stats change.

Enjoy~ :)

[Krisna]

We will find out who is the strongest (this week) by Sunday... ;)

[kwun]

there are merits to what narnia is doing. certainly quite innovative way of ranking a small number of players/pairs who frequently play each other so the table is well populated.

keep updating it. thanks. :)

[george@chongwei]

Let's see what happens tomorrow. The best MD semifinal lineup so far this year. :)
Ina fans who are going to the stadium later will be very lucky:)

[s3160717]

Cai/Fu is the strongest after watching many MD videos i say

[narnia]

Updated stats after BWF 2009 INA Open:

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[ctjcad]

..that was quick, my man...;)

[narnia]

..that was quick, my man...;)

Now it's NP with updating; just reflect on it. :)

[ctjcad]

..the overall record for each of the top 10 MD pairs, at the end of 2008...;)

[narnia]

..the overall record for each of the top 10 MD pairs, at the end of 2008...;)

Sorry, I'm just interest in Most Recent stats; 1 or 1.5 yrs time span would be enough in the fast-changing MD world. If you need it, you can easily calculate it with the master table by yourself. :)

[narnia]

There were two matches in WC 2009 between the top MD players in the table.

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Enjoy~ :)

[narnia]

To reflect the WC 2009:

1. The top three (in the absence of MK/HS) teams have played each other and showed they are real top of the world badminton.

2. KKK/TBH lost their winning game to JJS/LYD as losing their concentration at the final stage, which is their on-going problem. (So, KKK/TBH's chance in the table a bit decreased.)

3. More experienced WC champion, CY/FHF, could manage the games to the victory after long rallies. Especially, while the CHN team making less errors, the KOR duo committed more mistakes, both unusual. (CY/FHF's chance quite improved reducing the margin with the top, JJS/LYD.)

- A minor one was the advancement of TG/Howard Bach of USA, who beat MB/CM. But I doubt Howard can continue to make it and Tony is getting old - he tends to lose his focus in the rubber set in recent tournaments, even though he showed some consistency in this WC.

Enjoy~ :)

[limsy]

To reflect the WC 2009:

1. The top three (in the absence of MK/HS) teams have played each other and showed they are real top of the world badminton.

2. KKK/TBH lost their winning game to JJS/LYD as losing their concentration at the final stage, which is their on-going problem.

3. More experienced WC champion, CY/FHF, could manage the games to the victory after long rallies. Especially, while the CHN team making less errors, the KOR duo committed more mistakes, both unusual.

Enjoy~ :)

so,the false top 4:fuzzy
they almost beat twice wc cai/fu in semis,no comment?:)

[narnia]

so,the false top 4:fuzzy
they almost beat twice wc cai/fu in semis,no comment?:)

In my past calculation for the Fuzzy team, it was about 20% against the top players in the table, so they were out.

Fuzzy team's performance is fuzzy, that's the problem. :)

[limsy]

In my past calculation for the Fuzzy team, it was about 20% against the top players in the table, so they were out.

Fuzzy team's performance is fuzzy, that's the problem. :)

haha,so,fu/cai will face problem when opponent are fuzzy,hehe
next time ask koo/tan become dizzy too:p

[george@chongwei]

so will lee yong dae/jung jae sung bounce back to become stronger next time? we will see;)

[george@chongwei]

unfortunately, jjs/lyd fell short to beat fu/cai in the world most prestigiuous badminton tournament, the world champions!;) they can beat any pair in the world in other tournaments, but they just fell short to beat their final opponent to win the wc..nevermind, they can try again next year..

[narnia]

As KKK/TBH beat two top danish teams while grabbing the 2009 Denmark Open Title, they got up to the 3rd place in the H2H Stats among the top MD teams in the world. In the contrast, MK/HS got down to the 4th position by losing to Boe/Mogensen.

Enjoy~!

62484

[badadum]

Everyone can use statistics. Let's see how the top 4 ranks in term of winning the big tournament they participate in (SS+SSM tourney, WC and OG, sorry, no fancy excel coloring for u :p)

2008
MK/HS: 5/11 -> OG 2008 champ
LYD/JJS: 4/8
CY/FHF: 1/7
KKK/TBH: 1/10

2009
CY/FHF: 2/5 -> WC 2009 champ + all appearance results in either being the champ or runner up.
LYD/JJS: 2/5
KKK/TBH: 2/8
MK/HS: 1/6

Quite a different picture eh? MK/HS lead the pack in 2008, while CY/FHF is in the lead for 2009. A couple more tourney to go to conclude 2009.

[staiger]

As KKK/TBH beat two top danish teams while grabbing the 2009 Denmark Open Title, they got up to the 3rd place in the H2H Stats among the top MD teams in the world. In the contrast, MK/HS got down to the 4th position by losing to Boe/Mogensen.

Enjoy~!

62484

Sorry guys , statistic doesnt prove anything especially when their are so many variances ..

CY/FHF are still the best pairing in MD IMO

[simonlovers]

Sorry guys , statistic doesnt prove anything especially when their are so many variances ..

CY/FHF are still the best pairing in MD IMO
there's no statistic without variance...:p

[narnia]

there's no statistic without variance...:p

Stats says the truth among the strongest players.

"The real strongest only reveals by fighting against the other strongest."

Don't hit the bushes.

:)

[staiger]

Stats says the truth among the strongest players.

"The real strongest only reveals by fighting against the other strongest."

Don't hit the bushes.

:)

UNDER CERTAIN CONDITION !

[badadum]

UNDER CERTAIN CONDITION !

Yeah, for our resident korean predictor...that condition happens to be Head to Head records among all the 6,7,8 pairs,etc...since that happened to be the one that favors his pair.

For 2009, records and overall performance simply point to CY/FHF as the top pairs. They have the WC title and the winning record against any of the top 4 pairs (2-1 vs LYD/JJS, 2-1 vs KKK/TBH...haven't played MK/HS yet).

[narnia]

In 2009 French SS, two matches happened;

1. KKK/TBH beat again MB/CM in semifinal.
2. MK/HS beat KKK/TBH in final.

So, the winning percentage changed little among the top MD pairs after 2009 Denmark Open.

One more reminder:

1. This table has been devised to see the whole matches between current top MD pairs, so that we can determine which team is the strongest statistically. Stats does not say 100% accuracy rather shows "consistency."

2. The other MD pairs not shown in the table are either they have very low winning percentages against the 6 top pairs or they have not enough records against the 6 top pairs.

The table dynamically changes. I am also checking the other , if anyone thinks some team should be in the table or some team should be removed, please let me know with reasonable reasons and their records.

If any member of this forum has recommendation on the table building, please feel free to do it.

Thanks and Enjoy~:)

62679

[badadum]

What you spout and what you did is 2 different things:


Sorry, I'm just interest in Most Recent stats; 1 or 1.5 yrs time span would be enough in the fast-changing MD world


If that's the case, lets just use the stats from 2009 then. It'll show accurately who's the best pair currently (and no, it's not your precious LYD/JJS)...with the result to match.

Not enough stats you say? Fine, expand it to 1 yr period (CO 2008) and you'll see the same thing.

[huangkwokhau]

As I sadi..it nis stupid stats....LYD/JJS has not played for a whil...still 71%%...basically if PMK/HS plays 2SS then won 2 SS and decided not to play for the rest of the year then their statistic will be 100%...haha...
LYD/JJS is going down hill..they are pair number 5 or 6....

Simonlovers..come up with biased stats and make Kido/HS or CY/FHF is number 1...

[badadum]

As I sadi..it nis stupid stats....LYD/JJS has not played for a whil...still 71%%...basically if PMK/HS plays 2SS then won 2 SS and decided not to play for the rest of the year then their statistic will be 100%...haha...
LYD/JJS is going down hill..they are pair number 5 or 6....

Simonlovers..come up with biased stats and make Kido/HS or CY/FHF is number 1...

Cmon hau-ge...that's too easy.... remember that LYD/JJS never won the big tourney, and there's nothing bigger than OG and WC. Lets see their records in those tourneys since 2007 onward.

OG stats:
MK/HS: 4-0 (2008 OG Champ)
CY/FHF: 3-1
LYD/JJS: 0-1

WC stats:
MK/HS: 5-0 (2007 WC champ)
CY/FHF: 7-1 (2009 WC champ)
LYD/JJS: 9-2

MK/HS pretty much unbeaten in OG and WC. ;)
How about the so called KOR strongest pair? (the only KOR pair of any significance will be the better title IMO)..
In OG...well, not much argument there...LYD/JJS crash and burn immediately in the 1st round. While in WC they fight it all the way to the final event, only to lose consecutively.....in the end, still no OG medals nor WC title for them... :rolleyes:

[george@chongwei]

1 word i can say..

WHOAH to this thread:eek::D:D:D

[narnia]

Cmon hau-ge...that's too easy.... remember that LYD/JJS never won the big tourney, and there's nothing bigger than OG and WC. Lets see their records in those tourneys since 2007 onward.

OG stats:
MK/HS: 4-0 (2008 OG Champ)
CY/FHF: 3-1
LYD/JJS: 0-1

WC stats:
MK/HS: 5-0 (2007 WC champ)
CY/FHF: 7-1 (2009 WC champ)
LYD/JJS: 9-2

MK/HS pretty much unbeaten in OG and WC. ;)
How about the so called KOR strongest pair? (the only KOR pair of any significance will be the better title IMO)..
In OG...well, not much argument there...LYD/JJS crash and burn immediately in the 1st round. While in WC they fight it all the way to the final event, only to lose consecutively.....in the end, still no OG medals nor WC title for them... :rolleyes:

Please read my early posts in this thread about why this thread was created or the purpose of the thread. All other stats you can see in the media here and there.

2009 span would be good and you can check it sufficiently in the table.

Thanks and Enjoy~:)

[volcom]

In major finals I think MK/HS will beat CY/FHF 80% of the time.
I think they are the bogey team. And INA is just so damn good in MD.

[badadum]

Please read my early posts in this thread about why this thread was created or the purpose of the thread. All other stats you can see in the media here and there.

2009 span would be good and you can check it sufficiently in the table.

Thanks and Enjoy~:)

Why don't you check the stats, recalculate your methodology and tell us who's the strongest team currently in 2009?

Thanks and enjoy :)

[Athelete1234]

Why not do total wins / total matches play? I mean, if KKK/TBH are demolishing every other top pair in the world but are consistently being stopped by a japanese pairing, then they're not the best. Consistency isn't measured by wins/losses among a few pairs, but should be measured by totals....

[badadum]

Why not do total wins / total matches play? I mean, if KKK/TBH are demolishing every other top pair in the world but are consistently being stopped by a japanese pairing, then they're not the best. Consistency isn't measured by wins/losses among a few pairs, but should be measured by totals....

Ahh but you forgot, despite what he had stated, narnia shameful agenda is to put LYD/JJS as #1...by any mean possible. The H-2-H from 2008 is the only way he can achieved this (switch that to 2009 only and even the H-2-H will fail him and LYD/JJS).

Here's the overall record for 2009 for the top 4 MD:
CY/FHF: 23-2 (92%)
MK/HS: 29-5 (85.3%)
LYD/JJS: 20-4 (83.3%)
KKK/TBH: 37-9 (80.4%)

As you can see...anyway you want to manipulate it (be it H-2-H, overall record, result in the field/tourney won) LYD/JJS simply are not the team that narnia tried to portray them to be in 2009.
Lets see if the korean chaps will acknowledge that or come up with another diversion. ;)

[badMania]

Nice work you have done :)

[badMania]

Ahh but you forgot, despite what he had stated, narnia shameful agenda is to put LYD/JJS as #1...by any mean possible. The H-2-H from 2008 is the only way he can achieved this (switch that to 2009 only and even the H-2-H will fail him and LYD/JJS).

Here's the overall record for 2009 for the top 4 MD:
CY/FHF: 23-2 (92%)
MK/HS: 29-5 (85.3%)
LYD/JJS: 20-4 (83.3%)
KKK/TBH: 37-9 (80.4%)

As you can see...anyway you want to manipulate it (be it H-2-H, overall record, result in the field/tourney won) LYD/JJS simply are not the team that narnia tried to portray them to be in 2009.
Lets see if the korean chaps will acknowledge that or come up with another diversion. ;)

Try manipulating it such that it only shows the top 4-6 pairs (as he liked, to his discretion) and u will see that Jung/Lee still come up no 1, the undisputed WORLD DOMINATOR in MD! Hurray!

[badadum]

Try manipulating it such that it only shows the top 4-6 pairs (as he liked, to his discretion) and u will see that Jung/Lee still come up no 1, the undisputed WORLD DOMINATOR in MD! Hurray!

When that happens, I'm sure it'll be shown again too him how ridiculous his argument is. The poor boy is a slow learner though....got hammered all the time and still repeating the same old broken record.. :p

[huangkwokhau]

Even Abedeng mentioned that Boemoe / is top 4 MD thats means the other 3 are CY/FHF,MK/HS and KKK/TBH...as I said...LYD/JJS is going down hill to number 5 or 6..

Nice work Badadum...We do not see LYD/JJS is on top of the world at last....

[huangkwokhau]

Cmon hau-ge...that's too easy.... remember that LYD/JJS never won the big tourney, and there's nothing bigger than OG and WC. Lets see their records in those tourneys since 2007 onward.

OG stats:
MK/HS: 4-0 (2008 OG Champ)
CY/FHF: 3-1
LYD/JJS: 0-1

WC stats:
MK/HS: 5-0 (2007 WC champ)
CY/FHF: 7-1 (2009 WC champ)
LYD/JJS: 9-2

MK/HS pretty much unbeaten in OG and WC. ;)
How about the so called KOR strongest pair? (the only KOR pair of any significance will be the better title IMO)..
In OG...well, not much argument there...LYD/JJS crash and burn immediately in the 1st round. While in WC they fight it all the way to the final event, only to lose consecutively.....in the end, still no OG medals nor WC title for them... :rolleyes:
:D:D..The so called dominating one got beaten by UNCLE from DENMARK..thats embarrassing....:p

[george@chongwei]

maybe bro ctdyn can do a very good stat for the md category;):)

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77212

[Pemuda]

In my opinion, the best MD currently are: MK/HS, LYD/JJS & FHF/CY. I consider this 3 pairs as evenly matched.

[Jagdpanther]

In my opinion, the best MD currently are: MK/HS, LYD/JJS & FHF/CY. I consider this 3 pairs as evenly matched.
You forget your own countrymen. ;)

[danielwong]

In my opinion, the best MD currently are: MK/HS, LYD/JJS & FHF/CY. I consider this 3 pairs as evenly matched.


agreed....as KKK/TBH lost to this 3 pairs currently
and some Japanese ninjas also :D:D:D:D

[narnia]

Ahh but you forgot, despite what he had stated, narnia shameful agenda is to put LYD/JJS as #1...by any mean possible. The H-2-H from 2008 is the only way he can achieved this (switch that to 2009 only and even the H-2-H will fail him and LYD/JJS).

Here's the overall record for 2009 for the top 4 MD:
CY/FHF: 23-2 (92%)
MK/HS: 29-5 (85.3%)
LYD/JJS: 20-4 (83.3%)
KKK/TBH: 37-9 (80.4%)

As you can see...anyway you want to manipulate it (be it H-2-H, overall record, result in the field/tourney won) LYD/JJS simply are not the team that narnia tried to portray them to be in 2009.
Lets see if the korean chaps will acknowledge that or come up with another diversion. ;)

It makes sense but not a proper measure "to the purpose of this thread".

You should deeply think over, say, why there exist the tournaments like Super Series Masters Final. You can see such kind of Final Games in another sports such as Golf.

As the facts show, MK/HS could win the title (the only exception is Olympic 2008) only when JJS/LYD did not participate in the same tournaments. Actually, they lost to JJS/LYD four times in a row since 2008.

Please stick to the purpose of this thread. If you forget it, please read earlier posts. If you don't like the purpose or measure of this thread, please create another thread you like.

Enjoy~:)

[habsq]

It makes sense but not a proper measure "to the purpose of this thread".

You should deeply think over, say, why there exist the tournaments like Super Series Masters' Final. You can see such kind of Final Games in another sports such as Golf.

Enjoy~:)
What's the purpose of this thread? To identify the strongest MD? Or to identify an MD with best H2H between the 6 MDs?

You should deeply think over, why there exist other tournament than Super Series Masters' Final...

[narnia]

What's the purpose of this thread? To identify the strongest MD? Or to identify an MD with best H2H between the 6 MDs?

You should deeply think over, why there exist other tournament than Super Series Masters' Final...

"The Finals among the Masters" always come at the end of the season. That conveys the idea of this thread. Why do they set up such kind of Final Games?
Think about the Professional Baseball cases, too.

"Just for fun?" Yes, that's an "extra amusement to determine who's the best of the bests." I prepared this set-up with the same spirit. But the difference is we all know what teams are the bests already. They are in the table.

:)

[narnia]

In my opinion, the best MD currently are: MK/HS, LYD/JJS & FHF/CY. I consider this 3 pairs as evenly matched.

Limiting the Top 3 in the world, for the last 2 years,

LYD/JJS 4:0 MK/HS
MK:HS 1:0 FHF/CY
FHF/CY 2:2 LYD/JJS
================

So, actually it's hard to say they are all evenly matched. If we go back to much older history, maybe they are.

Enjoy~:)

[Pemuda]

You forget your own countrymen. ;)

In terms of playing ability, KKK/TBH are a notch or two below these 3 pairs.

In terms of style n glamour, these 3 pairs are a couple of notches below KKK/TBH. ;)

[ctjcad]

Limiting the Top 3 in the world, for the last 2 years,

LYD/JJS 4:0 MK/HS
MK:HS 1:0 FHF/CY
FHF/CY 2:2 LYD/JJS
================

So, actually it's hard to say they are all evenly matched. If we go back to much older history, maybe they are.

Enjoy~:)
..why not just 1 yr?: this yr or last yr only
..why not the last 3 or 4 or 5 yrs?..
..why not between 2007-2008?..or 2006-2007?..
:confused:

[badMania]

..why not just 1 yr?: this yr or last yr only
..why not the last 3 or 4 or 5 yrs?..
..why not between 2007-2008?..or 2006-2007?..
:confused:

Our dear friend has his own logic as I have mentioned so many times before ;)

One reason was that before 2008, Jung/Lee wasn't as strong as they were in 2008 & 2009 for the reason that it took time for them to gel together. That was why the time frame that our dear friend has specifically chosen happen to be the year they start to get together ;)

[badMania]

As the facts show, MK/HS could win the title (the only exception is Olympic 2008) only when JJS/LYD did not participate in the same tournaments. Actually, they lost to JJS/LYD four times in a row since 2008.


Let me repeat this:
who care how many times they lose to a particular pair, if at the end, they could win the World Championships and Beijing Olympics Gold; a feat that Jung/Lee could not achieve unfortunately up to this moment in time.

Remember: Kido/Hendra had an atrocious record against Koo/Tan, going into the Beijing Games (0-5 officially). And they were drawn against their bogey pair in the QF.

We know what happen at the end ;)

Enjoy too ~:)

[badMania]

As the facts show, MK/HS could win the title (the only exception is Olympic 2008) only when JJS/LYD did not participate in the same tournaments. Actually, they lost to JJS/LYD four times in a row since 2008.


Once again dear friend, please check your record book ;)

Kido/Hendra won the following tourneys in 2007 & 2008 when Jung/Lee were also participating:
World Championships 2007 (Jung/Lee lost to the eventual champion in Final:D)
China SS 2007 (Jung/Lee lost to Guo/Xie in QF)
Hong Kong SS 2007 (Jung/Lee lost to Logosz/Mateusiak in R32)
Malaysia SS 2008 (Jung/Lee lost to Mollyhus/Kristiansen in R16)
Beijing Olympics 2008 (Jung/Lee lost to Paaske/Rasmussen in R32)

Jung/Lee won the following tourneys when Kido/Hendra were also participating:
Korea SS 2007 (Kido/Hendra lost to the eventual champion in QF)
Swiss SS 2008 (ditto)
All England SS 2008 (Kido/Hendra lost to Ohtsuka/Masuda in R32)
Hong Kong SS 2008 (Kido/Hendra lost to Koo/Tan in QF -- Kido's injury flared up)
Malaysia SS 2009 (Kido/Hendra lost to AG/Alvent in SF)
Indonesia SS 2009 (Kido/Hendra lost to the eventual champion in SF)

[badadum]

The thread title is: The Strongest MD Team Currently
Since when currently means all the way back to the beginning of 2008??? Maybe in Korea everything is dated back to 2 years, but not in the real world, my boy.

In fact, narnia have at multiple time acknowledge that 2009/1 year span is an accurate indicator as stated:


Sorry, I'm just interest in Most Recent stats; 1 or 1.5 yrs time span would be enough in the fast-changing MD world




2009 span would be good and you can check it sufficiently in the table.


Yet, he dances around and avoid using it at all cost. Why is that? :confused:

So let's use 2009 shall we? Overall H-2-H among the top 3 in 2009:
FHF/CY 2:1
LYD/JJS: 2-2
MK:HS 0:1

Expand it to H-2-H using narnia current table will yield these records:
FHF/CY: 6-2 (75%)
LYD/JJS: 7-3 (70%)
MK/HS: 2-2 (50%)

Compared that to their overall record in 2009 as well, it's pretty clear who has the best performance currently.
That team is not LYD/JJS, hence why narnia been avoiding to use only 2009 stats. :rolleyes:

[eaglehelang]

Ok, now it has transfered from LYD/JJS NO 1 thread to here. The no of titles stats, up to France 2009, not considering Team events :

1) MK/Hendra : 2 SS titles, 1 GP Gold = 3/8 titles = 37.5%, SS only = 2/7 = 28.6%
2) Fu/Cai : 1 SS, 1 WC = 2/5 = 40%, SS only = 1/4 = 25%
3) LYD/JJS : 2 SS = 2/5 = 40%, SS only = 2/4 = 50%
4) KKK/TBH = 2 SS, 2 GP Gold = 4/11 = 36.4%, SS only = 2/8 = 25%
5) Boe/Morgenson = 1 SS = 1/8 = 12.5%, SS only = 1/7 = 14.3 %
6) Guo/Xu Chen = 1 SS, 1 GP = 2/10 = 20%, SS only = 1/8= 12.5%
7) Clark/Robertson = 1 SS, = 1/6 = 16.67%

I only considered pairs that have won SS titles, among the current top 5 ranked pairs, only Boe/Morgenson's % is less than 20.

[staiger]

Our dear friend has his own logic as I have mentioned so many times before ;)

One reason was that before 2008, Jung/Lee wasn't as strong as they were in 2008 & 2009 for the reason that it took time for them to gel together. That was why the time frame that our dear friend has specifically chosen happen to be the year they start to get together ;)

:eek: Thats shocking , are you saying that our thread starter alter the stat in a way thats bias towards the Korean pair :D. Anyway as I said earlier , stat doesnt mean anything , it is what on the court that counts. We all know that the true standing according to talent not stats that;

the number 1 pair is Fu/Cai then
MK/HS
KKK/ TBH
LYD/JJS
Boe/Mor
AT/NR
Guo/Xu

and the rests are just here to make up the number :(

[staiger]

In major finals I think MK/HS will beat CY/FHF 80% of the time.
I think they are the bogey team. And INA is just so damn good in MD.

I would be amazed if you could find any evidence to backup your barbaric statement :cool:

[staiger]

agreed....as KKK/TBH lost to this 3 pairs currently
and some Japanese ninjas also :D:D:D:D

with their Arc Z , these Ninjas are lethal to anyone :D

[badMania]

I would be amazed if you could find any evidence to backup your barbaric statement :cool:

Well, hardly barbaric IMHO, as the results speak for themselves:
CHN Open 2006 Final -- 2-0 (21-16, 21-16; I was there watching the match)
HK SS 2007 SF -- 2-0 (21-15, 21-12; see above)
Beijing Olympics 2008 Final -- 2-1 (the INA pair lost the first set easily 11-21, but they rebounded strongly in the second and third-sets 21-11, 21-16 respectively to claim the coveted Beijing Olympic title).

Then, Fu and Cai were split up momentarily and paired with Shen and Xu respectively:
Denmark SS 2008 Final -- 2-0 (21-18, 21-19) against Fu/Shen
French SS 2008 Final -- 2-0 (21-15, 21-12) against Cai/Xu

I am not trying to discredit Fu/Cai's achievements. In fact, I will see them as Kido/Hendra's strongest threat. They managed to win their second AE and World Championships this year. However, if you look at the matches involving these 2 pairs from 2006-2008, it's very clear that Fu/Cai particularly dislike playing against Kido/Hendra :cool:

Their body languange showed it, particularly in the HK SS 2007 SF and the last 2-sets of the Beijing Olympics 2008 Final. They simply could not respond to Kido/Hendra's style, which led to their downfall quite easily in those matches. Hendra simply outplayed Cai at the net, while Fu wasn't allowed to reign in freely with his attacks. I believe ye333 will agree with this assessment too.

I will be intrigued to see who will be the winner in a match involving these 2 pairs right now.

[AlanY]

Statistically, MK/HS is the best pair follow by JJS/LYD, FHF/CY & KKK/TBH. With the total of 34 Super Series played so far since the first tournament in 2007 their results are as follow:

MK/HS 8 titles
JJS/LYD 7 titles
FHF/CY 6 titles, and
KKK/TBH 6 titles.

Within the same period there are 3 majors (2 WC and the 2008 OG), and MK/HS got 2 of them.

Therefore, I consider them as the best MD pair for the last 2-3 years.

With FHF/CY the current world champion, I say JJS/LYD and KKK/TBH are equal third.

[george@chongwei]

with their Arc Z , these Ninjas are lethal to anyone :D
but koo/tan didn't use their arc z during tournaments:p

[staiger]

Well, hardly barbaric IMHO, as the results speak for themselves:
CHN Open 2006 Final -- 2-0 (21-16, 21-16; I was there watching the match)
HK SS 2007 SF -- 2-0 (21-15, 21-12; see above)
Beijing Olympics 2008 Final -- 2-1 (the INA pair lost the first set easily 11-21, but they rebounded strongly in the second and third-sets 21-11, 21-16 respectively to claim the coveted Beijing Olympic title).

Then, Fu and Cai were split up momentarily and paired with Shen and Xu respectively:
Denmark SS 2008 Final -- 2-0 (21-18, 21-19) against Fu/Shen
French SS 2008 Final -- 2-0 (21-15, 21-12) against Cai/Xu

I am not trying to discredit Fu/Cai's achievements. In fact, I will see them as Kido/Hendra's strongest threat. They managed to win their second AE and World Championships this year. However, if you look at the matches involving these 2 pairs from 2006-2008, it's very clear that Fu/Cai particularly dislike playing against Kido/Hendra :cool:

Their body languange showed it, particularly in the HK SS 2007 SF and the last 2-sets of the Beijing Olympics 2008 Final. They simply could not respond to Kido/Hendra's style, which led to their downfall quite easily in those matches. Hendra simply outplayed Cai at the net, while Fu wasn't allowed to reign in freely with his attacks. I believe ye333 will agree with this assessment too.

I will be intrigued to see who will be the winner in a match involving these 2 pairs right now.

No, he said Kido /Hendra can beat Fu/Cai 80% of the time indefinite of the time . In recent time and in future beyond, I cant see Kido/Hendra can beat Fu/cai in finals . They , the chinese pair have improved so much especially Fu defensive play and his speed around the court which also improved greatly.

I agree that they were abit lost in the Olympics final , but now (2009) they have gathered themselve and results shown it

[badMania]

No, he said Kido /Hendra can beat Fu/Cai 80% of the time indefinite of the time . In recent time and in future beyond, I cant see Kido/Hendra can beat Fu/cai in finals . They , the chinese pair have improved so much especially Fu defensive play and his speed around the court which also improved greatly.

I agree that they were abit lost in the Olympics final , but now (2009) they have gathered themselve and results shown it

No doubt, the CHN pair has improved this year, thanks to Zhang Jun. But, Fu/Cai also lost to Koo/Tan in the Swiss SS and nearly lost to Fairuz/Zakry in the WC09 SF (a pair that Kido/Hendra has no problem beating). It will be interesting to see how the new-look Fu/Cai will fare against Kido/Hendra.

Kido might lose a little bit of sharpness in terms of smashes due to his troublesome knee, but, Hendra is also becoming more all-rounded right now. IMHO, I still don't think that Cai Yun can match him at net-play, esp since Cai is getting older now :cool: As for Fu, the INA pair is adept at making him play in uncomfortable positions (such as in front of the net). As long as the CHN pair is prevented from implementing their fast-pace game-plan (which troubles most MD pairs), they can be beaten :)

[badadum]

No doubt, the CHN pair has improved this year, thanks to Zhang Jun. But, Fu/Cai also lost to Koo/Tan in the Swiss SS and nearly lost to Fairuz/Zakry in the WC09 SF (a pair that Kido/Hendra has no problem beating). It will be interesting to see how the new-look Fu/Cai will fare against Kido/Hendra.

Kido might lose a little bit of sharpness in terms of smashes due to his troublesome knee, but, Hendra is also becoming more all-rounded right now. IMHO, I still don't think that Cai Yun can match him at net-play, esp since Cai is getting older now :cool: As for Fu, the INA pair is adept at making him play in uncomfortable positions (such as in front of the net). As long as the CHN pair is prevented from implementing their fast-pace game-plan (which troubles most MD pairs), they can be beaten :)

Yeah, I have to admit that Fu/Cai surprise me this year. I was expecting their form to dip as both of them getting older and making it harder to sustain the full pressure, fast pace style. The result speaks otherwise though.

I disagree with your strongest threat comment though. Kido/Hendra has shown they can handle Fu/Cai in the past so it can be done. The more immediate need is to show that they can handle the KOR pair of LYD/JJS (at the very least, for the sake of sanity in BC) ;)

[ye333]

You forgot Denmark SS 2008 Semifinal, where as far as I remember, MK/HS beat Cai/Xu 2:1.

Anyway, if I remember correctly, MK/HS hasn't lost to any Chinese pair after July 2007, be it the Ace pair CY/FHF, the 2nd fiddle GZD/XZB and GZD/XC, the young star ChaiBiao/LiuXiaolong, or the scratch pairs Cai/Xu, Shen/Fu. Let's see how long they can extend this streak. ;)


Well, hardly barbaric IMHO, as the results speak for themselves:
CHN Open 2006 Final -- 2-0 (21-16, 21-16; I was there watching the match)
HK SS 2007 SF -- 2-0 (21-15, 21-12; see above)
Beijing Olympics 2008 Final -- 2-1 (the INA pair lost the first set easily 11-21, but they rebounded strongly in the second and third-sets 21-11, 21-16 respectively to claim the coveted Beijing Olympic title).

Then, Fu and Cai were split up momentarily and paired with Shen and Xu respectively:
Denmark SS 2008 Final -- 2-0 (21-18, 21-19) against Fu/Shen
French SS 2008 Final -- 2-0 (21-15, 21-12) against Cai/Xu

I am not trying to discredit Fu/Cai's achievements. In fact, I will see them as Kido/Hendra's strongest threat. They managed to win their second AE and World Championships this year. However, if you look at the matches involving these 2 pairs from 2006-2008, it's very clear that Fu/Cai particularly dislike playing against Kido/Hendra :cool:

Their body languange showed it, particularly in the HK SS 2007 SF and the last 2-sets of the Beijing Olympics 2008 Final. They simply could not respond to Kido/Hendra's style, which led to their downfall quite easily in those matches. Hendra simply outplayed Cai at the net, while Fu wasn't allowed to reign in freely with his attacks. I believe ye333 will agree with this assessment too.

I will be intrigued to see who will be the winner in a match involving these 2 pairs right now.

[ye333]

The improvement on Fu's part is offset by CaiYun going downhill. Overall I would not say Cai/Fu as a pair is getting any stronger. Their peak performance should be 2006.


Yeah, I have to admit that Fu/Cai surprise me this year. I was expecting their form to dip as both of them getting older and making it harder to sustain the full pressure, fast pace style. The result speaks otherwise though.

I disagree with your strongest threat comment though. Kido/Hendra has shown they can handle Fu/Cai in the past so it can be done. The more immediate need is to show that they can handle the KOR pair of LYD/JJS (at the very least, for the sake of sanity in BC) ;)

[badMania]

The improvement on Fu's part is offset by CaiYun going downhill. Overall I would not say Cai/Fu as a pair is getting any stronger. Their peak performance should be 2006.

Despite this, they won the AE and WC 2009 :eek:

And yet, the supposedly DOMINATING pair failed to win the WC 2009.

[badMania]

You forgot Denmark SS 2008 Semifinal, where as far as I remember, MK/HS beat Cai/Xu 2:1.

Anyway, if I remember correctly, MK/HS hasn't lost to any Chinese pair after July 2007, be it the Ace pair CY/FHF, the 2nd fiddle GZD/XZB and GZD/XC, the young star ChaiBiao/LiuXiaolong, or the scratch pairs Cai/Xu, Shen/Fu. Let's see how long they can extend this streak. ;)

Thanks for pointing that out. Yup, I forgot about that bit. Indeed, they have yet to lose to ANY CHN pair since July 2007, whereas, the DOMINATING Jung/Lee lost to CHN pairs 3 times already this year :eek:

[badadum]

Thanks for pointing that out. Yup, I forgot about that bit. Indeed, they have yet to lose to ANY CHN pair since July 2007, whereas, the DOMINATING Jung/Lee lost to CHN pairs 3 times already this year :eek:

wait wait...isn't that mean the Chinese MD are now dominating LYD/JJS?? Just like the Danes did earlier??? :eek:

[lulu56]

You forgot Denmark SS 2008 Semifinal, where as far as I remember, MK/HS beat Cai/Xu 2:1.

Anyway, if I remember correctly, MK/HS hasn't lost to any Chinese pair after July 2007, be it the Ace pair CY/FHF, the 2nd fiddle GZD/XZB and GZD/XC, the young star ChaiBiao/LiuXiaolong, or the scratch pairs Cai/Xu, Shen/Fu. Let's see how long they can extend this streak. ;)

Cai/Fu beat HS/AHSAN in SC 2009.

When Cai and Fu were splitted, their respective pair's performance were considered as Cai/Fu's performance. But when MK and HS were splitted, you said their defeat should not be counted in. Why?

[abedeng]

badMania's theory on certain pairs not being comfortable with playing styles of certain other pairs is not new.

Even the top pairs of the 1980s had preferences over playing against certain playing styles. For example, Chinese coaches Li Yongbo/Tian Bingyi hated meeting top Indonesian opposition, and very much prefer playing Malaysian or Korean opposition. The Malaysian top pairs, in turn, much preferred playing Indonesian or Chinese styles, but not Korean.

[wilcan]

badMania's theory on certain pairs not being comfortable with playing styles of certain other pairs is not new.

Even the top pairs of the 1980s had preferences over playing against certain playing styles. For example, Chinese coaches Li Yongbo/Tian Bingyi hated meeting top Indonesian opposition, and very much prefer playing Malaysian or Korean opposition. The Malaysian top pairs, in turn, much preferred playing Indonesian or Chinese styles, but not Korean.

agree!!! i think it's still the same nowadays

[narnia]

Thanks guys for your interesting discussions on the subject.

As I mentioned many times, you can have your own measure. So, please don't forget to clearly specify your measuring method when you declare your strongest team.

Keep going!

Enjoy~:)

[huangkwokhau]

Thanks guys for your interesting discussions on the subject.

As I mentioned many times, you can have your own measure. So, please don't forget to clearly specify your measuring method when you declare your strongest team.

Keep going!

Enjoy~:)
Your Method is NOT a method...not objective one...

ENJOY!!

[AlanY]

IMHO, I still don't think that Cai Yun can match him at net-play, esp since Cai is getting older now :cool: only CY is getting older? we're all getting older!!

[ye333]

My statement is MK/HS hasn't lost to any Chinese pair since July 2007, that's why I listed the scratch pairs.

Where did I claim what you claim I claim?? :confused::confused: :D:D

Just checked my post again, in fact, the main reason I mention the 2:1 match is because badMania forgot to mention it.


Cai/Fu beat HS/AHSAN in SC 2009.

When Cai and Fu were splitted, their respective pair's performance were considered as Cai/Fu's performance. But when MK and HS were splitted, you said their defeat should not be counted in. Why?

[ye333]

CY is almost 30. We all know that beyond that age, it's highly unlikely that you can still be a top MD player (look at how quickly Candra/Sigit/Tony faded from the international scene since 2005).

So indeed badMania should use "getting old" instead of "older". :D:D


only CY is getting older? we're all getting older!!

[ye333]

That's true. But the point is, CY/FHF is only afraid of MK/HS. Since MK/HS is troubled by various issues in 2009, it's expected that CY/FHF can do well. Of course, they indeed did not only well, but very well. :D:D


Despite this, they won the AE and WC 2009 :eek:

And yet, the supposedly DOMINATING pair failed to win the WC 2009.

[ye333]

Nowadays the top pairs are CY/FHF, MK/HS and JJS/LYD. Between them,

CY/FHF >= JJS/LYD (the gap is closing quickly); MK/HS > CY/FHF; JJS/LYD > MK/HS.

KKK/TBH, unfortunately, did not live up to the expectation. Their current status is in fact similar to CTF/LWW between 2000 and 2007. More specifically, they are able to beat the top pairs, but in most encounters, they lose.


badMania's theory on certain pairs not being comfortable with playing styles of certain other pairs is not new.

Even the top pairs of the 1980s had preferences over playing against certain playing styles. For example, Chinese coaches Li Yongbo/Tian Bingyi hated meeting top Indonesian opposition, and very much prefer playing Malaysian or Korean opposition. The Malaysian top pairs, in turn, much preferred playing Indonesian or Chinese styles, but not Korean.

[shihman]

i think everyone has a point and argument for their favorite team. but the topic right now is the STRONGEST MD TEAM CURRENTLY. we can go back in history to look at records but that is not valid for the argument. as we all know that in every sports, the match up in playing style is critical to the end result. but what makes a good team is the ability to adjust, adapt and improve on their weakness. back in 07, CY/FHF was so successful was because of their favorite formation where FU in the back smashing away and CY in the front to finish it off. but not many team has adjusted to this style of play until MK/HS figured out to play flat and fast and bring FU to the front as much as possible and when smashing, attack FU. that's why they were successful at beating them and making them the hardest matchup. of course in any sports teams always practice the way of "monkey see monkey do". when MK/HS exposed this weakness of CY/FHF, all other teams start to play this way. so what did CH do, they started a 3 months intensive training for FU to improve his net/flat plays and defense. result is that they are a much more well-round team and the result shows too. if you go back and look at the stats for the major championships they have won, you'll see that they did not always have more smashes points won but rather they will by defense and making other team to commit errors.

also, the stats on which team won more tournaments is not a valid stats. because not all teams plays the same number of tournaments each year. it is the head to head that counts. furthermore, the argument about CY's age is not realivent either as we are talking about the STRONGEST TEAM CURRENTLY, not next year or later.

so my conclusion based on this years' results, the way team adapt and won, CY/FHF is the STRONGEST MD TEAM CURRENTLY.

[ye333]

MK/HS beat CY/FHF as early as 2004 or 2005. They have another win in 2006 (China Open final as far as I remember). MK/HS seems superior to Chinese MD because they play at a faster pace than any Chinese MD. Chinese MDs (MS, WS, XD, WD) are always at loss when their opponents' pace is faster.

I would not say 2007 is a successful year for CY/FHF. They were beaten 2 times by KKK/TBH (AE, Swiss), 2 times by CTF/LWW (WC, Singapore), 1 time by MK/HS (HK), 1 time by Candra/Tony (MAS?), and didn't get any important title.


i think everyone has a point and argument for their favorite team. but the topic right now is the STRONGEST MD TEAM CURRENTLY. we can go back in history to look at records but that is not valid for the argument. as we all know that in every sports, the match up in playing style is critical to the end result. but what makes a good team is the ability to adjust, adapt and improve on their weakness. back in 07, CY/FHF was so successful was because of their favorite formation where FU in the back smashing away and CY in the front to finish it off. but not many team has adjusted to this style of play until MK/HS figured out to play flat and fast and bring FU to the front as much as possible and when smashing, attack FU. that's why they were successful at beating them and making them the hardest matchup. of course in any sports teams always practice the way of "monkey see monkey do". when MK/HS exposed this weakness of CY/FHF, all other teams start to play this way. so what did CH do, they started a 3 months intensive training for FU to improve his net/flat plays and defense. result is that they are a much more well-round team and the result shows too. if you go back and look at the stats for the major championships they have won, you'll see that they did not always have more smashes points won but rather they will by defense and making other team to commit errors.

also, the stats on which team won more tournaments is not a valid stats. because not all teams plays the same number of tournaments each year. it is the head to head that counts. furthermore, the argument about CY's age is not realivent either as we are talking about the STRONGEST TEAM CURRENTLY, not next year or later.

so my conclusion based on this years' results, the way team adapt and won, CY/FHF is the STRONGEST MD TEAM CURRENTLY.

[limsy]

MK/HS beat CY/FHF as early as 2004 or 2005. They have another win in 2006 (China Open final as far as I remember). MK/HS seems superior to Chinese MD because they play at a faster pace than any Chinese MD. Chinese MDs (MS, WS, XD, WD) are always at loss when their opponents' pace is faster.

I would not say 2007 is a successful year for CY/FHF. They were beaten 2 times by KKK/TBH (AE, Swiss), 2 times by CTF/LWW (WC, Singapore), 1 time by MK/HS (HK), 1 time by Candra/Tony (MAS?), and didn't get any important title.

as always
ye333 always able to back up his claim with strong evident:)

[shihman]

the only good point you (ye333) made was that MK/HS was the better MD team in 2007, NOT CURRENTLY. what important championship has they won this year?

please understand the title of this thread. the main word for this thread is "CURRENTLY". i am not trying to put your team down, i am just stating the obvious.

[badadum]

Nowadays the top pairs are CY/FHF, MK/HS and JJS/LYD. Between them,

CY/FHF >= JJS/LYD (the gap is closing quickly); MK/HS > CY/FHF; JJS/LYD > MK/HS.

KKK/TBH, unfortunately, did not live up to the expectation. Their current status is in fact similar to CTF/LWW between 2000 and 2007. More specifically, they are able to beat the top pairs, but in most encounters, they lose.

I'm interested to see where you rank MB/CM? They're arguably the best duo from Europe right now, but I'm not convinced they're ranked in the Top 4. Close, but not quite.

[badadum]

the only good point you (ye333) made was that MK/HS was the better MD team in 2007, NOT CURRENTLY. what important championship has they won this year?

please understand the title of this thread. the main word for this thread is "CURRENTLY". i am not trying to put your team down, i am just stating the obvious.

The problem using H-2-H is...MK/HS beat KKK/TBH....KKK/TBH beat CY/FHF....now is that automatically mean MK/HS >>> CY/FHF??
(believe it or not, some do think like that) :p

Another problem this year is that it's very rare to have all of the top MD pairs participating in the same tournament and faced each other..... :cool:

[narnia]

The problem using H-2-H is...MK/HS beat KKK/TBH....KKK/TBH beat CY/FHF....now is that automatically mean MK/HS >>> CY/FHF??
(believe it or not, some do think like that) :p

Another problem this year is that it's very rare to have all of the top MD pairs participating in the same tournament and faced each other..... :cool:

Desirable discussions. thanks. For the two issues raised:

1. If the stats goes like that, we can hardly determine the strongest - simple!

2. The rare match-ups among the top teams, that's because I set the time-span "since 2008". This year we have not much data as you indicated.

Enjoy~:)

[ye333]

I am just stating some facts. I never claimed MK/HS the best MD team CURRENTLY, did I?

Furthermore, how do you define "currently"? The past year? The past half-year? The past month? Or "right-now"?

With CY "too tired", JJS/LYD disappeared, MK/HS not in best form, I guess the "current" best MD is KKK/TBH, who did best in the past two tournaments. ;)

Please understand that in a long thread like this, there are (understandably) many "spin-off"s of the main topic. :cool:


the only good point you (ye333) made was that MK/HS was the better MD team in 2007, NOT CURRENTLY. what important championship has they won this year?

please understand the title of this thread. the main word for this thread is "CURRENTLY". i am not trying to put your team down, i am just stating the obvious.

[ye333]

I put them at the same level as KKK/TBH. A "challenger", not a "winner". Btw, if I remember correctly, they haven't ever beat CY/FHF.


I'm interested to see where you rank MB/CM? They're arguably the best duo from Europe right now, but I'm not convinced they're ranked in the Top 4. Close, but not quite.

[badadum]

1. If the stats goes like that, we can hardly determine the strongest - simple!


That's exactly what the stats is turning into. :rolleyes:




2. The rare match-ups among the top teams, that's because I set the time-span "since 2008". This year we have not much data as you indicated.



No one in the right mind will use something from almost 2 years ago to depict "currently". I guess we've start with basic english with you, do you understand the meaning of the word currently or not?? :confused:

CY/FHF, MB/CM has improved quite a bit from last year. Why are you still using the record from the early-mid 2008, knowing full well it's not an accurate depiction of their current strength? Stick with the year to date and you'll see a different picture (one without your favorite korean's not in the top). :cool:

[badadum]

I put them at the same level as KKK/TBH. A "challenger", not a "winner". Btw, if I remember correctly, they haven't ever beat CY/FHF.

Fair enough. Yeah, not only MB/CM hasn't beat CY/FHF, IIRC they also suffers consecutive defeats in the trial pair of FHF/SY.

[eaglehelang]

also, the stats on which team won more tournaments is not a valid stats. because not all teams plays the same number of tournaments each year. it is the head to head that counts. furthermore, the argument about CY's age is not realivent either as we are talking about the STRONGEST TEAM CURRENTLY, not next year or later.

.

The stats of percentage of tournaments won so far in 2009 (number won/number participated) has also been given a few pages earlier.

[shihman]

I am just stating some facts. I never claimed MK/HS the best MD team CURRENTLY, did I?

Furthermore, how do you define "currently"? The past year? The past half-year? The past month? Or "right-now"?

With CY "too tired", JJS/LYD disappeared, MK/HS not in best form, I guess the "current" best MD is KKK/TBH, who did best in the past two tournaments. ;)

Please understand that in a long thread like this, there are (understandably) many "spin-off"s of the main topic. :cool:

i would like to clear my intention here is not to argue, disrespect or discount any one's favor team or players. as for what constitute "CURRENTLY", just like in any other sport that would be current season or year. and just like any other sport, we can only gauge or determine one's (or a team's) greatness based on major tournaments won because that is the event draws ALL the top players. as far as badminton is concern, what are the majors or the most coveted titles? that would be All England, World Championships, China Maters and maybe the Super Series Masters Final later this year. based on the result this year, the team that wins the most "majors" would be the strongest MD team CURRENTLY for me.

[habsq]

as far as badminton is concern, what are the majors or the most coveted titles? that would be All England, World Championships, China Maters and maybe the Super Series Masters Final later this year.
What's so special about China Masters? :confused:

[ctjcad]

.. as far as badminton is concern, what are the majors or the most coveted titles? that would be All England, World Championships, China Maters and maybe the Super Series Masters Final later this year.
...
..this has been discussed many times before.

They are: AE, WC and Olympics...then the SS, GP Gold and GP titles follow.
Chinas Masters is just a SS tourney. Super Series Masters Final is actually an invitation only event; it is not BWF sanctioned.
So, this yr's major tourneys are the AE & WC.

[cooler]

What's so special about China Masters? :confused:

ya, like, everybody is a master here;):D:p

[shihman]

definitely AE and WC are the most coveted titles and this year both were won by CF/HFH and that's exactly my point that they are the strongest MD team currently.
as for how special a tournament is, some of the super series may not be as lucrative as AE or WC, but it does draws some of the top players and that's just what we want to see and gauge the head to head match up. also, unless you are a top draw or top players, you wouldn't be invited to the Super Series Masters Final would you?! ;) but i do appreciate you guys for setting me straight on the level of tournements. i do learn a thing or two whenever i get on here.

[ctjcad]

...
as for how special a tournament is, some of the super series may not be as lucrative as AE or WC
...
also, unless you are a top draw or top players, you wouldn't be invited to the Super Series Masters Final would you?!
...
..it's hard to justify whether a top player is one who is invited to the SSMF simply based on the WR points (for the SSMF, only the top 8 ranked players/pairs are invited); we've sort of discussed abt BWF's current ranking system in other threads.
So, suppose, say if LD just missed being ranked in the top 8 or is ranked #10, does that mean he's not a "top" player??..:confused:

For the tournament being considered a "major", it's more than that to be lucrative. For a start, it has to have some sort of prestige/history (not necessarily award $$$).

Those are the individual "major" titles. For team events/titles, you've got the Sudirman Cup and Thomas & Uber Cups as "major" titles/events.

[shihman]

very true in every sense of your point. i understand how the point system works, much like in tennis and even in golf's FedEx cup.But if LD (or any player/team) is not ranked in the top 8 in any year that pretty much mean he/she/team hasn't played or won enough tournaments to be ranked that high. thus also proves my point as NOT being the strongest player/team for that particular year.
as inaccurate as the point system maybe, but that's just how the system works. however the accumulation of the points may not necessarily reflect the exact placement of the ranking and that's where the head-to-head win/lose in the majors among all top players comes into play. case in point, LCW (KKK/BHT) may ranked number 1 because of he (them) plays in more smaller tournaments and wins to accumulate points but falters in the majors against other top players (team). that in my opinion does not make him (them) the strongest player (team) currently, and same argument applies to MD. LD may very well be at the top of his game or in man fans' mind that he is still a top player, but the fact of the matter is if he didn't win enough tournaments or beat other top players to be ranked in the top 8, then he is not the strongest player CURRENTLY. and that's exactly my point for this discussion. ;)

[ctjcad]

..you've pretty much exposed the flaw in the current BWF world ranking system, esp. in relation to determining who's the "real", "true", "top" players/pairs..

...But if LD (or any player/team) is not ranked in the top 8 in any year that pretty much mean he/she/team hasn't played or won enough tournaments to be ranked that high. thus also proves my point as NOT being the strongest player/team for that particular year.
...
however the accumulation of the points may not necessarily reflect the exact placement of the ranking
...
..the above 2 statements kinda sound a bit contradictory..

- Head to head record is one way to determine whether a player/pair is a "true", "top" 8 player/pair. However, BWF doesn't use the head to head record to determine who are the "true", "top" 8 players/pairs or to qualify for the SSMF.
- A pair or player doesn't have to have less wins to not qualify in the top 8. A player or pair could simply not participate in enough SS tourneys to qualify or to make up enough pts to be ranked in the top 8. Say LD missed the first 7 SS tourneys, but has played and won the last 3 tourneys, IMO, he is still a "top" player despite having participated in less tourneys and garnering less total pts.

Anyway, more discussion on the current BWF ranking system in the thread below:
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75692

[narnia]

- Head to head record is one way to determine whether a player/pair is a "true", "top" 8 player/pair. However, BWF doesn't use the head to head record to determine who are the "true", "top" 8 players/pairs or to qualify for the SSMF.
- A pair or player doesn't have to have less wins to not qualify in the top 8. A player or pair could simply not participate in enough SS tourneys to qualify or to make up enough pts to be ranked in the top 8. Say LD missed the first 7 SS tourneys, but has played and won the last 3 tourneys, IMO, he is still a "top" player despite having participated in less tourneys and garnering less total pts.

Anyway, more discussion on the current BWF ranking system in the thread below:
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75692

Agreed.

It is simple. When we try to determine who's the strongest, we tend to come up with a greedy method on our mind: first, set up an incumbent who is supposed to be the top, and then, search for another team who deserves to replace the incumbent. That's the idea exactly behind the H2H method. We need actual fights between them to know it. It's hardly to know just by counting the number of titles. How many titles they got before can play a supplementary role to support the result. That's why the general ranking system doesn't give good gauge for our curiosity. Actually, we do not have sufficient data for a shorter time span, which is the problem we have. In tennis, the top players participate in most of the big tourneys so it is easy to see who's the strongest, but in badminton, they don't on account of injuries, training, etc.

If the title winners never fought against each other, we can hardly determine who's the strongest. Can you know who will win: Rexy/Ricky vs. FHF/CY?


Enjoy~:)

[ye333]

I believe Rexy was asked this in 2006, and his answer is: Ricky/Rexy will win. :D



If the title winners never fought against each other, we can hardly determine who's the strongest. Can you know who will win: Rexy/Ricky vs. FHF/CY?


Enjoy~:)

[ye333]

China Masters is definitely not a major title yet. I think currently the major SS tournaments are

AE, China, HongKong, Japan.

With AE much more prestigious than the rest three.


i would like to clear my intention here is not to argue, disrespect or discount any one's favor team or players. as for what constitute "CURRENTLY", just like in any other sport that would be current season or year. and just like any other sport, we can only gauge or determine one's (or a team's) greatness based on major tournaments won because that is the event draws ALL the top players. as far as badminton is concern, what are the majors or the most coveted titles? that would be All England, World Championships, China Maters and maybe the Super Series Masters Final later this year. based on the result this year, the team that wins the most "majors" would be the strongest MD team CURRENTLY for me.

[shihman]

this is a very interesting topic indeed but also one that will never have a consensus to it. the only point that we all will agree on is to disagree. :D

we all have a different idea or method in mind ready to debate and to defend our favorite team. whether is injuries, ranking, titles won (majors and SS) past and/or present or match up (head to head) records. even with all that still will not be enough to convince which team is better. i will admit i am definitely a die hard supporter for my team. for me, i look at my player/team on a year to year bases just like any other sports. btw, injuries is part of the sports. it is the war of attrition. if you are injured then you can't play thus can't possibly be the strongest team currently. of course with injury in mind, that player/team will be constantly changing from tournament to tournament as well. if all else is good, then the majors will my determining factor. having said that, CY/HFH is out of the running because they just pulled out of HK open due to injuries. haha now i'll leave this discussion because i just shot myself in the foot and there goes my team. :crying:

[narnia]

Again, (2009 HK SS)

MK/HS failed to win a title in a tournament in which JJS/LYD participated.

Enjoy~:)

[narnia]

Compare the two matches; quite contrasted!

63422

63423

Amazing - how could they win with no smash winners?!

[george@chongwei]

either its the problem with the ts stats or the england pair defense is good, can retrieve every smashes from the koreans, or maybe mostly are the english pair mistakes..

[ctjcad]

Compare the two matches; quite contrasted!
...
Amazing - how could they win with no smash winners?!
..Markis & Hendra are very afraid of meeting LYD & JJS (in the Semis), thus they lost tamely to Alvent & HendraAG..

[wilcan]

Compare the two matches; quite contrasted!

63422

63423

Amazing - how could they win with no smash winners?!
ohhh no u come back with u statistics again... u make me hate statistics MORE!!

[Kodok]

Narnia, eat your statistics!

[limsy]

Narnia, eat your statistics!

even if u hate/dislike any bcer
please dont be rude with them:)

[huangkwokhau]

Hendra was sick yesterday......may pull out from China Open

[narnia]

Hendra was sick yesterday......may pull out from China Open

Hendra Setiawan? It makes sense then. It was really unexpected. I hoped Kindra could have a chance to fight against the koreans.

:)

[narnia]

Narnia, eat your statistics!

Sorry, this is not stats, actually it's just scoring graph to check the mood of the games.

:)

[wilcan]

Sorry, this is not stats, actually it's just scoring graph to check the mood of the games.

:)
oh ya?? can u read "STATISTICS" upside the SCORING GRAPH?? i think u were a profesor of statistic but even u dunno what statistics look like or maybe how to spell STATISTICS

[ytyang]

LYD & JJS are at the brink of not being invited to SSM, hope they will do well in
both HKO and China open.

[narnia]

oh ya?? can u read "STATISTICS" upside the SCORING GRAPH?? i think u were a profesor of statistic but even u dunno what statistics look like or maybe how to spell STATISTICS

:) I expected notes like that (as I actually saw the word on that). I meant that the graphs were just posted to catch the mood of the games. Sorry if you were confused.

Enjoy~:)

[narnia]

LYD & JJS are at the brink of not being invited to SSM, hope they will do well in
both HKO and China open.

Actually I predicted JJS/LYD will not work out well in HK (the best would be semi-finalist) because LYD was just got off from his rehabilitation period of a couple of months. I thought he might need more time to get used to the mood of the international matches.

However, in the absence of MK/HS, they may have more chance to win the title as the Danes are not threat to them any more after Beijing Olympics.

Hope that they will get back their 100% of partnership soon.

:)

[george@chongwei]

Actually I predicted JJS/LYD will not work out well in HK (the best would be semi-finalist) because LYD was just got off from his rehabilitation period of a couple of months. I thought he might need more time to get used to the mood of the international matches.

However, in the absence of MK/HS, they may have more chance to win the title as the Danes are not threat to them any more after Beijing Olympics.

Hope that they will get back their 100% of partnership soon.

:)
of course la, because the danes is already uncles mah:D but what if 2moro jung/lee Olympic games nightmare, JP/JR(the opponent they are facing 2moro) chalk up a win?:p;):eek::eek:

but 1st, the koreans must 1st face hendra aprida gunawan/alvent yulianto. the repeat of this year mas open md final.:)

[narnia]

This Is Badminton - The Great Come-back!

63521

The livescores -> http://bwf.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/match.aspx?id=B2E3E641-C50A-4D82-849F-2254CA755F19&match=183#ctl00_ctl00_cphPage_cphPage_tblGame3

[narnia]

MD H2H After 2009 HK Super Series:

- KKK/TBH lost to MAS uncles CTF/LWW, who lost to JR/LP
- MK/HS lost to INA Alven/Hendra, who lost to JJS/LYD

As JJS/LYD got the title beating JR/LP again after 2009 KOR, their winning % gains a bit more, keeping top ranked.

63522

Please note again that the winning % of the other MD teams not shown in the table against the teams in the table are far less than 30%.

[narnia]

Actually, the Korean duo was about to lose the match to the Danes. It turned out to be again that it is the mental problem Koreans have against the Danes, which is also important part in sports. AFACT skills, they showed some dominance over the Danes. The Danes should have won the match in two straight games due to their age and physical weakness.

Enjoy~:)

[ctjcad]

..anxiously waiting for JR to come in this thread and make a couple of comments on LYD & JJS' dominance over him & LP..:cool:

[narnia]

..anxiously waiting for JR to come in this thread and make a couple of comments on LYD & JJS' dominance over him & LP..:cool:

Haha. When they shook hands after match, I saw JR saying something to JJS probably appreciating JJS's final surprise cross-drive. I guess he said "congratulations" or "you guys did good job."

I also much respect JR and LP; don't worry. I'm just commenting about the game quality.

:)

[ctjcad]

Haha. When they shook hands after match, I saw JR saying something to JJS probably appreciating JJS's final surprise cross-drive. I guess he said "congratulations" or "you guys did good job."
...
..JR whispered to JJS : "How much you want to bet narnia, your biggest BC fan, will put up the MD Final stats and claim you & LYD have dominated us, once again..":cool:

[red_dragon]

currently kido & setiawan are not very inform and because of injuries and other issues, although still among the top pairs does not clearly standout.
KKK & TBH are a great pair but too inconsistent.

Although JJS & LYD great comeback to beat the danes in HK Open finals have to rank amongst the top 2 at the moment, having a short stint away from competition.

Finally, cannot forget Cai Yun and Fu Haifeng who pulled out just before the tournament. The final match between these 2 pairs in the World Championships show that they are the ones to beat!!!!! :)

[habsq]

Please note again that the winning % of the other MD teams not shown in the table against the teams in the table are far less than 30%.
This is a very funny statement... how could you know that they have far less than 30% if they are not even on the table? (the table would look completely different with some addition of some MD teams).

Gosh... I used to like LYD/JJS before this thread exist... I know it's not their fault, but still... :D

[melisa]

.................................................

Gosh... I used to like LYD/JJS before this thread exist... I know it's not their fault, but still... :D

same with me:eek:
this tread really have "something" what make me cutting down my astonishment to LYD/JJS..
and yes i know this is not LYD/JJS's fault,..:o
but:confused: dunno why, this is just me.

[narnia]

This is a very funny statement... how could you know that they have far less than 30% if they are not even on the table? (the table would look completely different with some addition of some MD teams).

Gosh... I used to like LYD/JJS before this thread exist... I know it's not their fault, but still... :D

You can check it by calculating it. I did it with some candidates.

If you (or anyone) come up with any team whose winning % is over 30% against all the top 6 teams in the table, please let me know. I will appreciate for it.

Just relax and enjoy~:)

[narnia]

same with me:eek:
this tread really have "something" what make me cutting down my astonishment to LYD/JJS..
and yes i know this is not LYD/JJS's fault,..:o
but:confused: dunno why, this is just me.

This thread has been just wrapping up the results we are watching. And there is always something mixed with positive and negative psychology in such competitive settings. Probably, this concrete work seemed diminishing your "wonder" about the pair. This thread deals with real, hardcore, tough things. Instead, you may hang out in the thread of "Lee Yong Dae."

:)

[habsq]

If you (or anyone) come up with any team whose winning % is over 30% against all the top 6 teams in the table, please let me know. I will appreciate for it.
What is the base of picking the-so-called "top 6 teams"? BWF rank? Of course not... BWF rank does not show who's the best, its only purpose is to help decide the top 6 teams :D

[habsq]

This thread deals with real, hardcore, tough things."


LOL, and the other thread deals with fake and "soft" things? :rolleyes:

[narnia]

What is the base of picking the-so-called "top 6 teams"? BWF rank? Of course not... BWF rank does not show who's the best, its only purpose is to help decide the top 6 teams :D

Right. If you are interested in that, please read some early posts in this thread. And if you have another team in mind not in the 6 teams, please let me know with reasonable evidence.

Enjoy~:)

[narnia]

LOL, and the other thread deals with fake and "soft" things? :rolleyes:

Pretty much. I was comparing with the other thread of "Lee Yong Dae".

:)

[narnia]

INA MD seems to have some difficulties in playing against TPE. Interesting.

2009 China Super Series MD
63985

[george@chongwei]

the same thing happen to JJS/LYD too in the 1st round. They had trouble finish off their japanese opponent but glad that they manage to win it:)

[narnia]

the same thing happen to JJS/LYD too in the 1st round. They had trouble finish off their japanese opponent but glad that they manage to win it:)

Right. The strongest team always arise in the final stage of the game. The final concentration decides the winner. In this point, MAS MD has some problem in my view.

:)

[limsy]

Right. The strongest team always arise in the final stage of the game. The final concentration decides the winner. In this point, MAS MD has some problem in my view.

:)

yes
u are correct on this:)

[narnia]

yes
u are correct on this:)

Thanks. But still I put my hope in Tan Boon Heong's smiles on court. I also miss Koo's outrageousness like in early 2007. Their skills improved much better than those times. The only thing they need to improve is the mental strength. Rexy knows it.

:)

[george@chongwei]

Thanks. But still I put my hope in Tan Boon Heong's smiles on court. I also miss Koo's outrageousness like in early 2007. Their skills improved much better than those times. The only thing they need to improve is the mental strength. Rexy knows it.

:)
Yes, u knows it all:)

[limsy]

Thanks. But still I put my hope in Tan Boon Heong's smiles on court. I also miss Koo's outrageousness like in early 2007. Their skills improved much better than those times. The only thing they need to improve is the mental strength. Rexy knows it.

:)

they might split after ag 2010:)

[narnia]

they might split after ag 2010:)

Hum... That's what I don't expect. They are good partnership. Maybe another threat from Rexy for boost-up effect?

JJS is also known to be split from LYD after the AG2010. He might quit the national team after that. But I think it may change depending on their performance in the future.

:)

[limsy]

Hum... That's what I don't expect. They are good partnership. Maybe another threat from Rexy for boost-up effect?

JJS is also known to be split from LYD after the AG2010. He might quit the national team after that. But I think it may change depending on their performance in the future.

:)

hehe
we will see in future:cool:

[danielwong]

they might split after ag 2010:)


source?? true or not??

[narnia]

JJS/LYD vs. MB/CM

http://bwf.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/match.aspx?id=7EBBA4D8-BE5E-4394-B92C-E88993565DC2&match=185#ctl00_ctl00_cphPage_cphPage_tblGame3

[narnia]

63522

KKK/TBH [1] vs. JJS/LYD [2]

1 : 5 (H2H Scores since 2008)

Even though KKK/TBH is best in their skills, they could manage to win only in the final match of 2008 SS Masters Final. But what will happen in 2009 CHN SS?

:)

[limsy]

source?? true or not??

hmm
just see
i cant say everything out;):p:D


KKK/TBH [1] vs. JJS/LYD [2]

1 5

The H2H Scores since 2008 [/b]

Even though KKK/TBH is best in their skills, they could manage to win only in 2008 SS Masters Final. But what will happen in 2009 CHN SS?

:)

if lee/jung cant beat koo/tan
it will be a failure;)

[ctjcad]

...THE GRAPHICAL STATS FOR LYD & JJS' MD FINAL MATCH IN THE 2009 CHINA OPEN??..:confused::crying::confused::crying:

[Badmintan]

Great game. The Koreans have to work very very hard to win.

LYD and JJSs' jumpsmashes became lower and lower in height towards the end, after the Malaysian's tenacious defence. Hey, the Malaysian MD's headlight racquets are excellent in defence. :D

Great aggressive attitude to keep on attacking and attacking despite the frustration of not killing the shuttle on the 1st 10 smashes.

[Kodok]

Where is Narnia?

[undeadshot]

The top 4 in badminton is very competitive :p

[george@chongwei]

...THE GRAPHICAL STATS FOR LYD & JJS' MD FINAL MATCH IN THE 2009 CHINA OPEN??..:confused::crying::confused::crying:
Don't cry , chris:p I'm sure narnia will be back for more 2moro with his stats:cool::D

Great game. The Koreans have to work very very hard to win.

LYD and JJSs' jumpsmashes became lower and lower in height towards the end, after the Malaysian's tenacious defence. Hey, the Malaysian MD's headlight racquets are excellent in defence. :D

Great aggressive attitude to keep on attacking and attacking despite the frustration of not killing the shuttle on the 1st 10 smashes.
You enjoy the match too, eh? me too!:)

[narnia]

In 2009 CHN SS MD, two matches happened between the Top Teams:

SemiFinal: JJS/LYD vs. MB/CM
64163
http://bwf.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/match.aspx?id=7EBBA4D8-BE5E-4394-B92C-E88993565DC2&match=185

Final: JJS/LYD vs. KKK/TBH
64164
http://bwf.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/match.aspx?id=7EBBA4D8-BE5E-4394-B92C-E88993565DC2&match=183#ctl00_ctl00_cphPage_cphPage_tblGame3

[narnia]

H2H Stats among the Top Teams in MD

- JJS/LYD still leads by increasing there winning % to 75%.
- KKK/TBH, MB/CM keep their ranking.

64166

[narnia]

From the view point of ranking #1, their H2H stats read as follows:

JJS/LYD vs. FHF/CY = 2 : 2
JJS/LYD vs. MK/HS = 4 : 0
JJS/LYD vs. KKK/TBH = 6 : 1
JJS/LYD vs. JR/LP = 2 (2009) : 2 (2008)
JJS/LYD vs. MB/CM = 4 : 1

[george@chongwei]

The final match show us INDEED those 2 pairs fighting for the title yesterday is 1 of the Strongest MD Team currently;)

[AlanY]

their recent record is quite impressive, they won 8 of the 10 last SS t'ments they entered! unfortunately missed out the 2 BIG ones in between, Olympis and WC.

[narnia]

H2H Stats of Top MD teams after Super Series Masters Final 2009

- 3 teams participated, and one match took place between the tops.
- JJS/LYD beat twice MB/CM in the group match and Final.
(however, only once counted in the table for the redundancy issue.)

[NOTE] This table contains all matches between the top teams for the whole period of 2008 and 2009. From 2010, I will keep the 2-year time span, in which I will continuously add new events while deleting the same events 2 years past.


64819

[george@chongwei]

lol, suddenly there's some small little NOTE popping out..2 years..??lol:D:D:rolleyes:

[limsy]

well
can any kind soul provide the age of the top four?(next year)
i want to note it down
cai yun should be 28 right?
fu hai feng 25
kido/setiawan 25
lee yong dae 21
jjs 27?
tbh 22
and kkk 25 right?

[psychophant]

well
can any kind soul provide the age of the top four?(next year)
i want to note it down

here you go:

cai yun 30 (1980)
fu hai feng 26 (1984)
kido/setiawan 26 (1984)
lee yong dae 21 (1988)
jjs 28 (1982)
tbh 23 (1987)
kkk 26 (1985)

[limsy]

here you go:

cai yun 30 (1980)
fu hai feng 26 (1984)
kido/setiawan 26 (1984)
lee yong dae 21 (1988)
jjs 28 (1982)
tbh 23 (1987)
kkk 26 (1985)

thanks
but acording to ur info
kkk should be 25 next year right?:)

[psychophant]

thanks
but acording to ur info
kkk should be 25 next year right?:)

yeah, my bad! :o

[narnia]

2010 Korea SS Final:

66680

[narnia]

H2H Stats after 2010 Korea Super Series:
(2-year moving average)

66682

[ctjcad]

..congrats, congrats to Sundae Lee and JJS for redeeming their WC loss...;)..must've been 1 heck of a match, eh?? (will watch the video later)..:cool:

[narnia]

..congrats, congrats to Sundae Lee and JJS for redeeming their WC loss...;)..must've been 1 heck of a match, eh?? (will watch the video later)..:cool:

Yeah, you should see it. Gillian kept exclaiming... "best best MD game!"

:)

[badMania]

Congrats to Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae for the revenge against Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun. They certainly show the best performance among the top MD pairs since the WC defeat last year and definitely deserve the no 1 ranking next week :)

Now the question is, whether they can win the World Championships 2010 and the Asian Games Individual Event at the end of this year?

[ctjcad]

Yeah, you should see it. Gillian kept exclaiming... "best best MD game!"

:)
..didn't she always say that when there's a very good match??..;)

[narnia]

..didn't she always say that when there's a very good match??..;)

Right. The difference is that she used the "best" twice this time. Rarely she does. :)

[ctjcad]

..i guess i'll just have to see the videos of the match, myself, to believe it's actually "the best best MD game!"..;)

[canti]

anyone have that video?

[narnia]

anyone have that video?

Just keep checking the Video corner of this forum.

:)

[george@chongwei]

Congrats to Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae for the revenge against Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun. They certainly show the best performance among the top MD pairs since the WC defeat last year and definitely deserve the no 1 ranking next week :)

Now the question is, whether they can win the World Championships 2010 and the Asian Games Individual Event at the end of this year?
I predict they will win either one of that:)

[narnia]

I predict they will win either one of that:)

I cannot be that optimistic because 1. in general, statistically it's impossible to get 100% consistency and 2. in particular, statistically they more likely failed to win esp. the biggest events.

However, I read a news for their interview after the KOR SS final, saying they will focus on the WC first of all, and then the Asian Games.

:)

[cooler]

JJS's smashing got pass CY and FHF a few times, somebody should put a speed gun on his smashes too:D

[Jonc108]

..i guess i'll just have to see the videos of the match, myself, to believe it's actually "the best best MD game!"..;)

although not as good as the WC final last yr, still a very good game...

both teams made some mistakes, with the Chinese team made a lot more... maybe due to their lack of competitions (compared to their oppenent)..

Korean team was more balance, both players did well in offence and defence; they are more aggressive in attack, maybe because playing at home...

the Chinese team was mostly playing defence and counter-attack tactics; and more lethal than Korean pair when FHF attacking at the back and CY control the net...

must say these 2 pairs are the strongest 2 MD pairs at the moment... with Kido kept having health problem...

[AlanY]

..didn't she always say that when there's a very good match??..;)
well, yes. when there's a match....

[george@chongwei]

It was a fantastic last match at stadium putra yesterday!!:D its worth it watched till past midnight.. what a match though!!:D

[narnia]

It was a fantastic last match at stadium putra yesterday!!:D its worth it watched till past midnight.. what a match though!!:D

This is a good record for the top team but this thread is not exactly for this stuff.

It was reported that in Malaysia LYD had the pains back on his elbow. Actually, he did take no rest for the past couple of months when he has got a series of titles in MD and XD all in international tournaments.

[ctjcad]

..we absolutely understand the likelihood of LYD carrying some sort of injury, thus his early losses in this yr's MO..;)..Get well soon, for him, so we'll see another stats update..;)

[george@chongwei]

This is a good record for the top team but this thread is not exactly for this stuff.

It was reported that in Malaysia LYD had the pains back on his elbow. Actually, he did take no rest for the past couple of months when he has got a series of titles in MD and XD all in international tournaments.
Agree. So he really needs some rest after this. Rest well, yong dae:)
Anyway, the MAS pair's defence was really good though that night. With a scoreline of 21-4 in a set is surely an amazing thing to watch in front of my own eyes against a top MD pair.;) aiks, unfortunately the mas pair lost to japanese pair yesterday night. darn!:D

[limsy]

but lyd arm injury doesnt explain why jjs smash is as weak as lyd as jjs is the smasher:(

[george@chongwei]

but lyd arm injury doesnt explain why jjs smash is as weak as lyd as jjs is the smasher:(
Agree. JJS's smash that day is not as hard as his normal smash..

maybe he's too sleepy ?:D as the match play until midnight already.

[narnia]

No matches amongst the top MD teams in the 2010 MAS Super Series.

:)

[george@chongwei]

No matches amongst the top MD teams in the 2010 MAS Super Series.

:)
yup. because most of the top md pair are not here ;)

only JJS/LYD besides, kkk/tbh were there, but unfortunately JJS/LYD crashed out in the 1st round

:)

[narnia]

No matches amongst the top MD teams in the 2010 MAS Super Series.

:)

In 2010 MAS SS, KKK/TBH got the title.

I'm wondering what percentage of all the tournament titles had gone to the one of the 6 top teams in the last year of 2009.

:)

[narnia]

2010 All England is over; here is the stats for the last 2 years between the strongest MD teams.


69863

[ctjcad]

..your favorite dominating pair dropped 1%, in the winning %, from the last time you posted the head-to-head stats of the strongest MD pairs..

[narnia]

..your favorite dominating pair dropped 1%, in the winning %, from the last time you posted the head-to-head stats of the strongest MD pairs..

As I add AE2010, I dropped AE2008 results.

:)

[kwun]

i wonder how much different the chart will look if you only count 09 and 10... ;)

[limsy]

i wonder how much different the chart will look if you only count 09 and 10... ;)

a lot more different
the md is chaos:D

[narnia]

i wonder how much different the chart will look if you only count 09 and 10... ;)

To satisfy your curiosity, I tried this one; but for more reliability we need more data samples as you know - at the same time we should keep the "currentness" of the stats, so I am bringing the data period as 2-year span.

:)

69872

[narnia]

One interesting point I find from the previous table is:

The 2010 AE Champion, JR/LP, has been recently "diminishing" star. But suddenly, they became the winner of the tournament beating all their stronger rivals to whom they were beaten through 2009 and 2010. (check their column also not only their row.)

[george@chongwei]

In 2010 MAS SS, KKK/TBH got the title.

I'm wondering what percentage of all the tournament titles had gone to the one of the 6 top teams in the last year of 2009.

:)
yes, in 2010 mas ss kkk/tbh got the title. But 2009 is 2009, we are already in 2010 now. start counting the percentage from 2010 now :)

[huangkwokhau]

Narnia will do anything with anyhting to make sure LYD/JJS on top....

[narnia]

In 2010 Thomas Cup Finals, there were three matches happened among the top six MD teams:

- FHF/CY beat KKK/TBH and MK/HS
- KKK/TBH beat MB/CM

(LYD did not participate due to his rehabilitation treatment on his arm; reportedly, he will show up again from 2010 WC.)

So, the latest stats among the top six MD teams for the past two years goes as follows:

72305


Enjoy~!

[narnia]

Admin, please delete this message.

[narnia]

As some fans are interested in the 2009 and 2010 games only:

72308

Enjoy~!

[wilcan]

Narnia will do anything with anyhting to make sure LYD/JJS on top....
haha nice reply

[Ajaib]

i'm waiting for the latest stats... if LYD / JJS still no.1???

[volcom]

Is Narnia still on BadmintoncentraL?

[tommy_bun]

i'm waiting for the latest stats... if LYD / JJS still no.1???


Is Narnia still on BadmintoncentraL?
He/She will show up If LYD/JJS plays good..:D:)

[ctjcad]

Is Narnia still on BadmintoncentraL?
..do you miss his updated H-2-H stats?..;)

[george@chongwei]

Yes, i missed the stats..:) please update the latest one.. thanks..

[ctjcad]

..and i was expecting narnia to come back and update the stats..:(;)