I watched todays quarterfinals and as I got back home, I noticed tournamentsoftware.com is back online with the results:

http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/matches.aspx?id=5276F690-53EE-41B9-9AD2-5E6B90DB0BEA

Now some observations:

- Trikus and Minarti, though they lost, gave Nan Zhang/Lu Lu a good fight (18-21 25-23 21-17) showing that brains/experience/creativity has a place in world-class play: youth, strength and speed aren't the only qualities that will get a win.

- In three instances I witnessed, so I'm starting to think this might be a strategy of the Chinese team, they did something that was rather unsportsmanlike and underhanded: when their opponent is just about to serve, they suddenly raise their hand to stop them and interrupt their rhythm. This caused no. 3 seed Pui Yin YIP to lose a couple of points from Shixian WANG. Yip was in the act of serving when Wang suddenly puts her hand out trying to stop her. Yip saw her hand and ended up serving out. The umpire called the point against her despite her protests that she saw Wang with her hand out--though Wang immediately put it down when she saw the shuttle going out. The Chinese team did this again in the Men's Doubles: Fernando KURNIAWAN/Lingga LIE vs Zhiben/Ye SHEN. The Indonesians were irritated and complained to the umpire who warned the Chinese pair to cut it out. They continued doing it for a couple of more times and got some more warnings before they finally stopped doing it. Then I also saw the Chinese pair in Women's doubles actually do it against Gao Ling! Gao Ling was playing for the Victor team I guess. Siyun WANG/Jinkang ZHANG started doing it in the 3rd set when they were starting to lose but Gao Ling and her partner Yili WEI ignored the tactics.

I wish these Chinese team players would not stoop to such underhanded tactics and just win fair and square. When you're not ready to receive serve, you should raise your hand from the beginning and not do it just when your opponent is all ready and about to serve. You're obviously trying to destroy your opponent's concentration, which is illegal. You're not supposed to move or distract your opponent when they're serving.

If the Chinese team coaches are teaching this tactic ('cuz it seems taught since a bunch of their players in different categories--WS, MD, WD--were doing it--and no one from the other teams engaged in it), they should just stop. It puts an asterisk to any win they get--they'll be marked as cheaters.

that's so bad n unsporting at all. pity yip n the other players

that's so bad n unsporting at all. pity yip n the other players

Yes, as a spectator, I couldn't appreciate the player who engaged in the practice. I just found the behavior irritating and unfair.

Hmm... That doesn't sound good. But on the other hand it's kind of easy to counter: Just finish your serve as if nothing happened. :cool:

I watched todays quarterfinals and as I got back home, I noticed tournamentsoftware.com is back online with the results:

http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/matches.aspx?id=5276F690-53EE-41B9-9AD2-5E6B90DB0BEA

Now some observations:

- Trikus and Minarti, though they lost, gave Nan Zhang/Lu Lu a good fight (18-21 25-23 21-17) showing that brains/experience/creativity has a place in world-class play: youth, strength and speed aren't the only qualities that will get a win.

- In three instances I witnessed, so I'm starting to think this might be a strategy of the Chinese team, they did something that was rather unsportsmanlike and underhanded: when their opponent is just about to serve, they suddenly raise their hand to stop them and interrupt their rhythm. This caused no. 3 seed Pui Yin YIP to lose a couple of points from Shixian WANG. Yip was in the act of serving when Wang suddenly puts her hand out trying to stop her. Yip saw her hand and ended up serving out. The umpire called the point against her despite her protests that she saw Wang with her hand out--though Wang immediately put it down when she saw the shuttle going out. The Chinese team did this again in the Men's Doubles: Fernando KURNIAWAN/Lingga LIE vs Zhiben/Ye SHEN. The Indonesians were irritated and complained to the umpire who warned the Chinese pair to cut it out. They continued doing it for a couple of more times and got some more warnings before they finally stopped doing it. Then I also saw the Chinese pair in Women's doubles actually do it against Gao Ling! Gao Ling was playing for the Victor team I guess. Siyun WANG/Jinkang ZHANG started doing it in the 3rd set when they were starting to lose but Gao Ling and her partner Yili WEI ignored the tactics.

I wish these Chinese team players would not stoop to such underhanded tactics and just win fair and square. When you're not ready to receive serve, you should raise your hand from the beginning and not do it just when your opponent is all ready and about to serve. You're obviously trying to destroy your opponent's concentration, which is illegal. You're not supposed to move or distract your opponent when they're serving.

If the Chinese team coaches are teaching this tactic ('cuz it seems taught since a bunch of their players in different categories--WS, MD, WD--were doing it--and no one from the other teams engaged in it), they should just stop. It puts an asterisk to any win they get--they'll be marked as cheaters.

I watched todays quarterfinals and as I got back home, I noticed tournamentsoftware.com is back online with the results:

http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/matches.aspx?id=5276F690-53EE-41B9-9AD2-5E6B90DB0BEA

Now some observations:

- Trikus and Minarti, though they lost, gave Nan Zhang/Lu Lu a good fight (18-21 25-23 21-17) showing that brains/experience/creativity has a place in world-class play: youth, strength and speed aren't the only qualities that will get a win.

isn't it a dumb comment? the fact was youth, strength and speed DID beat Trikus and Minarti:rolleyes: OR are u saying nan/lulu show the brains/experience/creativity as well?

- In three instances I witnessed, so I'm starting to think this might be a strategy of the Chinese team, they did something that was rather unsportsmanlike and underhanded: when their opponent is just about to serve, they suddenly raise their hand to stop them and interrupt their rhythm. This caused no. 3 seed Pui Yin YIP to lose a couple of points from Shixian WANG. Yip was in the act of serving when Wang suddenly puts her hand out trying to stop her. Yip saw her hand and ended up serving out. The umpire called the point against her despite her protests that she saw Wang with her hand out--though Wang immediately put it down when she saw the shuttle going out. The Chinese team did this again in the Men's Doubles: Fernando KURNIAWAN/Lingga LIE vs Zhiben/Ye SHEN. The Indonesians were irritated and complained to the umpire who warned the Chinese pair to cut it out. They continued doing it for a couple of more times and got some more warnings before they finally stopped doing it. Then I also saw the Chinese pair in Women's doubles actually do it against Gao Ling! Gao Ling was playing for the Victor team I guess. Siyun WANG/Jinkang ZHANG started doing it in the 3rd set when they were starting to lose but Gao Ling and her partner Yili WEI ignored the tactics.

I wish these Chinese team players would not stoop to such underhanded tactics and just win fair and square. When you're not ready to receive serve, you should raise your hand from the beginning and not do it just when your opponent is all ready and about to serve. You're obviously trying to destroy your opponent's concentration, which is illegal. You're not supposed to move or distract your opponent when they're serving.
hmm, if it was illegal, why the umpire didn't give the chineses yellow cards?who's rhythm takes priority? the receiver. You should read the rule book. I can assure u the chinese players/team have read the rule book

If the Chinese team coaches are teaching this tactic ('cuz it seems taught since a bunch of their players in different categories--WS, MD, WD--were doing it--and no one from the other teams engaged in it), they should just stop. It puts an asterisk to any win they get--they'll be marked as cheaters.
if the chinese cheated, then u the umpire is the co-conspirator.

u should be careful, Shixian Wang has lot of boyfriends here in bf:p

If the umpire allowed then is legal. Professional players during matches should focus on the game and it is not anybody's fault if they allow any distraction to affect their game.

However if I remember correctly, Mia Audina was the first player employing 'consistently' this tactic in her matches and that is back to around 1994. Then more and more players starting using it, so hardly new.

I have never been to south east Asian, from reading posts here, I feel that the people over there, in those south east Asian countries, are very hostile to Chinese. Some people mentioned here several days ago that Indonesians support any country who fights China. Even in country like Singapore, 80% are ethnic Chinese, but Chinese from mainland are still the least welcomed there.

Correct me if I'm wrong. If I am right, any people kindly tell me the reason. Thanks

Judging from the YPY case, it seems the "raising hand" occurred during the serve, otherwise it's hard to imagine an experienced professional -- YPY -- could not hold her serve and ended serving out. Also, from what I've seen in past matches, in such situation YPY should get another chance to serve since the game stopped as soon as Wang raised her hand.

So it seems to me that either there is something new, or the umpire is not good enough.

If the umpire allowed then is legal. Professional players during matches should focus on the game and it is not anybody's fault if they allow any distraction to affect their game.

However if I remember correctly, Mia Audina was the first player employing 'consistently' this tactic in her matches and that is back to around 1994. Then more and more players starting using it, so hardly new.

I think most people are just trying to support underdogs. I support USA in the Confederation Cup Final, but that doesn't mean I am against Brazil.

Of course there may be a few who are really against China. But who cares. Pick anything, there will be "a few" people who are against that thing.

I have never been to south east Asian, from reading posts here, I feel that the people over there, in those south east Asian countries, are very hostile to Chinese. Some people mentioned here several days ago that Indonesians support any country who fights China. Even in country like Singapore, 80% are ethnic Chinese, but Chinese from mainland are still the least welcomed there.

Correct me if I'm wrong. If I am right, any people kindly tell me the reason. Thanks

thanks for your explanation.

my impression is that majority people there just hate Chinese. I could be wrong, that's the reason I want to verify that from the real people in that region on this forum.

thanks again.

I think most people are just trying to support underdogs. I support USA in the Confederation Cup Final, but that doesn't mean I am against Brazil.

Of course there may be a few who are really against China. But who cares. Pick anything, there will be "a few" people who are against that thing.

Such 'disruptive tactics' have become universal.
They are hardly the exclusive realm of the Chinese.

Nor is China the worst offender when receiving serve.
In my view, Mathias Boe of Denmark takes the crown.

It's not too difficult to counter these practices.
Watch Tony Gunawan and Lee Yong Dae.
They don't get thrown off rhythm because they wait.

Quite simply, don't serve just because you are ready.
Wait for the receiver to show he is ready.
Then, serve.

I have never been to south east Asian, from reading posts here, I feel that the people over there, in those south east Asian countries, are very hostile to Chinese. Some people mentioned here several days ago that Indonesians support any country who fights China. Even in country like Singapore, 80% are ethnic Chinese, but Chinese from mainland are still the least welcomed there.

Correct me if I'm wrong. If I am right, any people kindly tell me the reason. Thanks

Against China? Really? Naaaaaaah, just a figment of your imagination ;):D

isn't it a dumb comment? the fact was youth, strength and speed DID beat Trikus and Minarti:rolleyes: OR are u saying nan/lulu show the brains/experience/creativity as well?

Minarti/Trikus used more tricks than their opponent, so it wasn't a "dumb" comment as you put it.

hmm, if it was illegal, why the umpire didn't give the chineses yellow cards?who's rhythm takes priority? the receiver. You should read the rule book. I can assure u the chinese players/team have read the rule book

if the chinese cheated, then u the umpire is the co-conspirator.

u should be careful, Shixian Wang has lot of boyfriends here in bf:p

The rule states:

"9.1.1 neither side shall cause undue delay to the delivery of the service once the server and the receiver are ready for the service. On completion of the backward movement of server's racket head, any delay in the start of the service (Law 9.2 (http://www.worldbadminton.com/rules/#9.2)), shall be considered to be an undue delay;"

from http://www.worldbadminton.com/rules/

If the Chinese team members who engaged in this practice weren't ready, they should have put their hand up when "the server and the receiver are NOT ready for the service". But what they did was, when everyone was positioned, then they would raise their hand. You're right though, the umpire during Yip's game probably wasn't aware of this rule and allowed it, but good thing the umpire during the Men's Doubles game stopped it.

As for Shixian Wang having "lot of boyfriends"--I don't know why you'd cheapen Shixian Wang by implying she's an unfaithful type of girlfriend. She looks like a decent girl. She probably would insist only on one boyfriend at a time.

As for any animosity towards the Chinese--I was cheering for Gao Ling 'cuz I like her playing ability--and as far as I know, she's still mainland Chinese right? And during the Shixian Wang match, I was neutral, since I didn't know either one. But when Shixian Wang started doing her "hand up" strategy, it really turned me off to her and I started cheering for Yip.

[...]The rule states:

"9.1.1 neither side shall cause undue delay to the delivery of the service once the server and the receiver are ready for the service. On completion of the backward movement of server's racket head, any delay in the start of the service (Law 9.2 (http://www.worldbadminton.com/rules/#9.2)), shall be considered to be an undue delay;"

from http://www.worldbadminton.com/rules/

If the Chinese team members who engaged in this practice weren't ready, they should have put their hand up when "the server and the receiver are NOT ready for the service". But what they did was, when everyone was positioned, then they would raise their hand. You're right though, the umpire during Yip's game probably wasn't aware of this rule and allowed it, but good thing the umpire during the Men's Doubles game stopped it.
[...]
Actually, this rule has little authority over the 'hand-up' delaying tactics.
This rule controls only what happens after the server and receiver are ready.

(For reference, I have highlighted the portion in blue:)
"9.1.1 neither side shall cause undue delay to the delivery of the service once the server and the receiver are ready for the service. On completion of the backward movement of server's racket head, any delay in the start of the service shall be considered to be an undue delay."

These are part of gamesmanship, perfectly legal in the sporting world.

The umpire, however, has the final say on whether blatant gamesmanship is causing an unfair advantage to one party, and stop it. From what you reported, that's what the umpire in the MD match did.

Amen!! nice one Vip...:)

Minarti/Trikus used more tricks than their opponent, so it wasn't a "dumb" comment as you put it.



The rule states:

"9.1.1 neither side shall cause undue delay to the delivery of the service once the server and the receiver are ready for the service. On completion of the backward movement of server's racket head, any delay in the start of the service (Law 9.2 (http://www.worldbadminton.com/rules/#9.2)), shall be considered to be an undue delay;"

from http://www.worldbadminton.com/rules/

If the Chinese team members who engaged in this practice weren't ready, they should have put their hand up when "the server and the receiver are NOT ready for the service". But what they did was, when everyone was positioned, then they would raise their hand. You're right though, the umpire during Yip's game probably wasn't aware of this rule and allowed it, but good thing the umpire during the Men's Doubles game stopped it.

As for Shixian Wang having "lot of boyfriends"--I don't know why you'd cheapen Shixian Wang by implying she's an unfaithful type of girlfriend. She looks like a decent girl. She probably would insist only on one boyfriend at a time.

As for any animosity towards the Chinese--I was cheering for Gao Ling 'cuz I like her playing ability--and as far as I know, she's still mainland Chinese right? And during the Shixian Wang match, I was neutral, since I didn't know either one. But when Shixian Wang started doing her "hand up" strategy, it really turned me off to her and I started cheering for Yip.

I don't think anyone here should condone such underhanded tactics. Saying "Everyone else does it" or "It's part of the game" will mean tolerating it and thus allowing it to become the norm. This is usually the seed of corruption and will ruin the game. Tactics like these should be nipped in the bud, i.e., condemned so people will stop doing it. Badminton is too beautiful a game to have its reputation ruined, like its some sort of farce spectacle like Pro Wrestling--which has its own admirers but doesn't fit with badminton's purposes.

Amen!! nice one Vip...:)

Thanks. The irony is, early on, when Shixian WANG would emit a high-pitched scream when she won a crucial point and some in the crowd would make fun of her, I'd try to shush them because this was discourteous--Shixian WANG should be perfectly comfortably in expressing herself and we in the audience should respect her. It was only when she was down or at a crossroads and tried the underhanded tactic that I got turned off with her.

I don't think anyone here should condone such underhanded tactics. Saying "Everyone else does it" or "It's part of the game" will mean tolerating it and thus allowing it to become the norm. This is usually the seed of corruption and will ruin the game. Tactics like these should be nipped in the bud, i.e., condemned so people will stop doing it. Badminton is too beautiful a game to have its reputation ruined, like its some sort of farce spectacle like Pro Wrestling--which has its own admirers but doesn't fit with badminton's purposes.


Yes, I agreed with u.....on this one...:p

Some people mentioned here several days ago that Indonesians support any country who fights China. .......... Thanks

In this particular instance, during the recent Indonesia SS, INA fans were against Msia lah. Any matches vs Msia, they boo. They actually shouted "China, China" during WD finals.:D:p

Now some observations:

- Trikus and Minarti, though they lost, gave Nan Zhang/Lu Lu a good fight (18-21 25-23 21-17) showing that brains/experience/creativity has a place in world-class play: youth, strength and speed aren't the only qualities that will get a win..

Minarti/Trikus used more tricks than their opponent, so it wasn't a "dumb" comment as you put it.


my beef of your statement was, the young pair nan/lu DID win over the experience pair minarti/trikus.

maybe your problem is, u didn't recognize nor appreciate nan/lu brains and creativity which u should understand it's subjective. Speed, strength and youth are not subjective, it is measurable. When a person has a biased viewpoint, weighting importance of subjective attributes can get distorted. I know, i have to deal with TH and LCW fans everyday:p

I watched todays quarterfinals and as I got back home, I noticed tournamentsoftware.com is back online with the results:
...(rest of insightful experience snipped for brevity)..
..thanks vip_m for sharing your experience on what you saw.:cool:

The scenarios describing CHN players playing their "underhanded moves", i don't think they're the only ones who do those things. We may not like or be annoyed by them, but if the umpires/referee think it's fine, then there's nothing we can do.

On the case with cooler mentioning WSX has "many boyfriends in BC", i think he was just kidding, as usual.;)

As for the perception that SE Asia people tend to be "hostile" towards CHN players, yes, it has to do with them being more supportive of the "underdogs". At the same time, yes, there are quite a few supporters of CHN players. In essence, they tend to support/appreciate those who display genuine & sincere effort.

Look at the HK open 2007 MS finals between LD and LCW, the last point. LCW serves 3 times, and LD raises his hand twice, then LD wins the point.

Look at the HK open 2007 MS finals between LD and LCW, the last point. LCW serves 3 times, and LD raises his hand twice, then LD wins the point.

Well, tell that to Yip Pui who was clearly bothered. She lost her momentum and a couple of crucial points because of it. Again, your point is "everybody does it so it's okay to do it." Not the kind of values you'd want to teach, right? Using this philosophy, it's then okay to call your opponent's good shots out or say the shuttle didn't touch your body on the way out even if it did, etc. because some people engage in these dishonesty.

There are various issues I like to add :

1) The raising of hands are mostly employed by the CHN players though only a few players from other countries do it. The worst culprits are Yu Yan and DU Jing. I just can't stand them.

2) For sportmanship, can a player overturn a line call which was actually to his advantage, ie Singapore SS between Bonsark vs Park and Bao CL where both shots by Park and Bao were way in at the baseline and the calls were out. Btw, I'm a supporter of Bonsark.

3) As for against CHN team, the coach, LYB is too arrogant, hence the hostility and also ppl usually like to support underdogs.

Look at the HK open 2007 MS finals between LD and LCW, the last point. LCW serves 3 times, and LD raises his hand twice, then LD wins the point.

Sorry, I didn't understand your comment. You were in fact saying Lin Dan did the tactic--raising his hand to disrupt Lee Chong Wei--and ended up winning the point. So you're saying Lin's team does engage in the practice?

Anyway, it's clearly practiced and I've written to the Federation about it so that they could give guidance to umpires to look out for it.

According to his descriptions, the Chinese are putting their hand up AFTER both sides are ready, as the server is about to serve, so the rule is relevant.

Actually, this rule has little authority over the 'hand-up' delaying tactics.
This rule controls only what happens after the server and receiver are ready.

(For reference, I have highlighted the portion in blue:)
"9.1.1 neither side shall cause undue delay to the delivery of the service once the server and the receiver are ready for the service. On completion of the backward movement of server's racket head, any delay in the start of the service shall be considered to be an undue delay."

Look at the HK open 2007 MS finals between LD and LCW, the last point. LCW serves 3 times, and LD raises his hand twice, then LD wins the point.yes, do look at all of them because the umpire ok'ed all of them . Why? lcw try to be tricky by rushing his serves. Ask yourself this, why LCW rushing his serve is not underhanded but raising hand by receiver lin dan is? in this case lcw's devious plan backfired.

According to his descriptions, the Chinese are putting their hand up AFTER both sides are ready, as the server is about to serve, so the rule is relevant.

China once again did this during the semifinals. It's pretty annoying. Yes.

However, there are instances that could be excusable. For example, just when both of the players are ready, suddenly, the receiver got distracted, got out of balance, etc. The receiver raises his hands, but the server isn't looking so he continues serving. IMO, it's just okay to let this pass.

But if this is overused, to the point that it comes out as a tactical distraction, I think the umpire should give a warning. I've seen several umpires do this. Even Lee Yong Dae (don't get mad at me narnia) wasn't excused.

We must respect the umpire's judgment. For some audience, this could appear as a major distraction, assuming that they're cheering for the player getting affected. Then again, if it's literally and obviously annoying, then the umpire should do something about it.

yes, do look at all of them because the umpire ok'ed all of them . Why? lcw try to be tricky by rushing his serves. Ask yourself this, why LCW rushing his serve is not underhanded but raising hand by receiver lin dan is? in this case lcw's devious plan backfired.

Hahaha........lol...typical 'jia-u' fans statement........:D:D:D

Hahaha........lol...typical 'jia-u' fans statement........:D:D:DHahahaha, lol... typical boleh fans, just name calling but can't debate point by point.

it was lcw's own doing. It is so obvious lcw showing his mentally weak side to lin dan by not even able to control his service and the experienced lin dan gulped him down for the match lol

btw, i dont speak any mandarin at all.

According to his descriptions, the Chinese are putting their hand up AFTER both sides are ready, as the server is about to serve, so the rule is relevant.
When the receiver puts up his hand, he is indicating that he is NOT ready.
How can the umpire decide that a player is ready when the player himself indicates that he is not?

As such, the rule doesn't apply until 'the hand' is down.

yes, do look at all of them because the umpire ok'ed all of them . Why? lcw try to be tricky by rushing his serves. Ask yourself this, why LCW rushing his serve is not underhanded but raising hand by receiver lin dan is? in this case lcw's devious plan backfired.

Sorry, I didn't understand your comment. You were in fact saying Lin Dan did the tactic--raising his hand to disrupt Lee Chong Wei--and ended up winning the point. So you're saying Lin's team does engage in the practice?

Anyway, it's clearly practiced and I've written to the Federation about it so that they could give guidance to umpires to look out for it.

Well, tell that to Yip Pui who was clearly bothered. She lost her momentum and a couple of crucial points because of it. Again, your point is "everybody does it so it's okay to do it." Not the kind of values you'd want to teach, right? Using this philosophy, it's then okay to call your opponent's good shots out or say the shuttle didn't touch your body on the way out even if it did, etc. because some people engage in these dishonesty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOrhwGm3MtY&feature=PlayList&p=5E923C58DB28621B&index=5

Here's the video....well you can see by the second time LCW is scratching his head and is sorta bothered, as well the crowd is a bit nerved by it, and the third serve was loose and LD just killed it.

Quoting one of the comments:

That was a pretty nasty psychological trick by LD in the end. Most of LCW's flick serves were destroyed, so LCW was probably 90% going to short serve. However, by then forcing 2 lets, LCW started to worry about serving short / into the net. LCW's third serve seemed just a tad high, allowing LD to deceptively push for the win. ~exhaltedsky

Hahahaha, lol... typical boleh fans, just name calling but can't debate point by point.

it was lcw's own doing. It is so obvious lcw showing his mentally weak side to lin dan by not even able to control his service and the experienced lin dan gulped him down for the match lol

btw, i dont speak any mandarin at all.

Yes,...everybody know it...cooler is the best in point by point debate..lol :D:D:D....so be proud of it.....:D:D:D

U can be a die hard 'jia u' fans......regardless if u speak mandarin or no....:D:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOrhwGm3MtY&feature=PlayList&p=5E923C58DB28621B&index=5

Here's the video....well you can see by the second time LCW is scratching his head and is sorta bothered, as well the crowd is a bit nerved by it, and the third serve was loose and LD just killed it.

Quoting one of the comments:

That was a pretty nasty psychological trick by LD in the end. Most of LCW's flick serves were destroyed, so LCW was probably 90% going to short serve. However, by then forcing 2 lets, LCW started to worry about serving short / into the net. LCW's third serve seemed just a tad high, allowing LD to deceptively push for the win. ~exhaltedsky


awwwwwh, such a sob story....
lcw could flick a high serve and throw lin dan off balance since as u said, lin dan expect lcw to serve a low serve with 90% certainty. Lcw, a pro, and he can't serve right after 2 try? awwwwwwh, so sad indeed.

awwwwwh, such a sob story....
lcw could flick a high serve and throw lin dan off balance since as u said, lin dan expect lcw to serve a low serve with 90% certainty. Lcw, a pro, and he can't serve right after 2 try? awwwwwwh, so sad indeed.
Hey, I didn't say any of that, just pointing out LD's consecutive lets on the final point :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yes,...everybody know it...cooler is the best in point by point debate..lol :D:D:D....so be proud of it.....:D:D:D

U can be a die hard 'jia u' fans......regardless if u speak mandarin or no....:D:D

let me borrow ye333's words, i was only supporting the underdogs as CHN seem to be the receiving end of endless (often brainless) accusations:p

I think most people are just trying to support underdogs. I support USA in the Confederation Cup Final, but that doesn't mean I am against Brazil.

Of course there may be a few who are really against China. But who cares. Pick anything, there will be "a few" people who are against that thing.

if u trash TH or lcw, i would happy to give my supports to them as well on a similar proration basis:p:p

Yes, this "hand-up" tactic is gamesmanship but it is not illegal and quite common. In fact, it is the right of the receiver to indicate that he's not ready. The server should wait for the receiver to indicate readiness, then start the delivery.

When the receiver puts up his hand, he is indicating that he is NOT ready.
How can the umpire decide that a player is ready when the player himself indicates that he is not?

As such, the rule doesn't apply until 'the hand' is down.

As I saw in the Philippine Open in WS, MD and WD, they were raising their hand several times when both players were already ready. If it it happened once or twice, then fine--but during the most crucial points and a couple of points in a row? It was clearly a tactic.

As I saw in the Philippine Open in WS, MD and WD, they were raising their hand several times when both players were already ready. If it it happened once or twice, then fine--but during the most crucial points and a couple of points in a row? It was clearly a tactic.

It is obvious u were not those players, how can u be so sure they r ready or not from the stand? r u a mind reader? Isn't true at moment crucial points required extra preparation? I know i do

Players that are in the higher level know how to keep focused and not let anything distract and disrupt their game plan. Raising hands might be a tactic, as well as mopping the floor (can do it with your own towel), raising fists, shouting... And there many more things a player can do to distract the opponents. You may call them 'underhand moves', others may call it match experience. ;)

As I saw in the Philippine Open in WS, MD and WD, they were raising their hand several times when both players were already ready. If it it happened once or twice, then fine--but during the most crucial points and a couple of points in a row? It was clearly a tactic.
..that's what i thought also, both sides were set but then the "hand up" motion occurred.
Another technical question, if you recall. Were the players raising their hand while the racket was already in motion? Or just before the server pulled back/start the backward motion of the racket?

..that's what i thought also, both sides were set but then the "hand up" motion occurred.
Another technical question, if you recall. Were the players raising their hand while the racket was already in motion? Or just before the server pulled back/start the backward motion of the racket?

they raised their hand just a split second before the backward motion of the server's racket or just when he was about to serve. i witnessed it too. i was there on court side. :cool:

Players that are in the higher level know how to keep focused and not let anything distract and disrupt their game plan. Raising hands might be a tactic, as well as mopping the floor (can do it with your own towel), raising fists, shouting... And there many more things a player can do to distract the opponents. You may call them 'underhand moves', others may call it match experience. ;)
In that short youtube clip on the 2007 HKO MSF, it's interesting to note that LD took a long time to recover (still does) and get ready for the next serve whenever he lost a point.Among the delay tactics he used (and still does) were asking for floor mop,towelling without permission (of course) and walkabout (before LCW's last serve.)
Sure, players that are in the higher level know how to keep focused and not let anything distract and disrupt their game plan. But isn't 2007 HKO MSF the match where LD was so bothered by officials' plastic tags that he insisted that those distracting things be hidden? It was so funny the crowd had a good laugh. Apparently it never even occur to LCW that those could be distractions.So are you implying LD 's not higher level player? That must be a first in badminton history. It hasn't bothered LD since.
In LCW's final serves, LD did indicate he was ready to receive but was smart enough to 'let' because he was not ready to return well. Now, that's match experience.
Using non-badminton tactics may seem clever and is largely a CHN trademark. Some others like KOR and DEN exhibit them but not consistently like CHN. I don't remember INA (and MAS) using such.
I can understand why CHN engages in it. It is because CHN has to win but CHN's not confident enough to win playing pure, clean badminton. The rate at which CHN employs such tactics, if the umpires do their job, CHN would lose most matches because their players have been conditioned to win matches with gamesmanship as part of their game.
Ultimately, the truth will catch up on them. Sooner rather than later.

Sorry, I didn't understand your comment. You were in fact saying Lin Dan did the tactic--raising his hand to disrupt Lee Chong Wei--and ended up winning the point. So you're saying Lin's team does engage in the practice?

Anyway, it's clearly practiced and I've written to the Federation about it so that they could give guidance to umpires to look out for it.
It's good to know you have brought this to BWF's notice.
Would you kindly provide the address so others can do the same. If many raise the same issue, BWF's more likely to look into it.

In that short youtube clip on the 2007 HKO MSF, it's interesting to note that LD took a long time to recover (still does) and get ready for the next serve whenever he lost a point.Among the delay tactics he used (and still does) were asking for floor mop,towelling without permission (of course) and walkabout (before LCW's last serve.)
Sure, players that are in the higher level know how to keep focused and not let anything distract and disrupt their game plan. But isn't 2007 HKO MSF the match where LD was so bothered by officials' plastic tags that he insisted that those distracting things be hidden? It was so funny the crowd had a good laugh. Apparently it never even occur to LCW that those could be distractions.So are you implying LD 's not higher level player? That must be a first in badminton history. It hasn't bothered LD since.
In LCW's final serves, LD did indicate he was ready to receive but was smart enough to 'let' because he was not ready to return well. Now, that's match experience.
Using non-badminton tactics may seem clever and is largely a CHN trademark. Some others like KOR and DEN exhibit them but not consistently like CHN. I don't remember INA (and MAS) using such.
I can understand why CHN engages in it. It is because CHN has to win but CHN's not confident enough to win playing pure, clean badminton. The rate at which CHN employs such tactics, if the umpires do their job, CHN would lose most matches because their players have been conditioned to win matches with gamesmanship as part of their game.
Ultimately, the truth will catch up on them. Sooner rather than later.


Good luck with your theories, I do hope your MAS can win some more if they same be smarter and learn these tactics.

Good luck with your theories, I do hope your MAS can win some more if they same be smarter and learn these tactics.

IMO, I seriously hope that the other teams will wise up and give CHN a taste of their own medicine...:mad:

[quote=cooler;1203623]isn't it a dumb comment? the fact was youth, strength and speed DID beat Trikus and Minarti:rolleyes: OR are u saying nan/lulu show the brains/experience/creativity as well?

How can you say that ? You're not even here. You did not watch the game so I believe you are in no place to make such a comment.:mad:

It is obvious u were not those players, how can u be so sure they r ready or not from the stand? r u a mind reader? Isn't true at moment crucial points required extra preparation? I know i do

I suggest you go watch tournaments live for you to be in a position to make harsh comments. Or maybe you are the mind reader:mad::mad::mad:

frog inside the well will say the sky just as small as the well;)
so,let it be

frog inside the well will say the sky just as small as the well;)
so,let it be

You're absolutely right!!!!:D

..that's what i thought also, both sides were set but then the "hand up" motion occurred.
Another technical question, if you recall. Were the players raising their hand while the racket was already in motion? Or just before the server pulled back/start the backward motion of the racket?


they raised their hand just a split second before the backward motion of the server's racket or just when he was about to serve. i witnessed it too. i was there on court side. :cool:

I will vouch for this. I was seated directly behind the players, so I have a clear close-up view (with me as a background view on TV during service if I may add :p).

This happened several times.

- Both the server and receiver acknowledge that they're ready.
-The server looks down at the racket, ready to hit the birdie, with no full vision of the receiver.
-The Chinese raises his/her hand up just when the server was about to release the shuttle, giving the server no time to stop his/her racket swing.
-The umpire calls a let.

The first 2 calls are acceptable. But it could be annoying after several occurrences.

I was there. People who watched it live on TV couldn't get a complete view of the receiver and server.

The World Badminton Federation replied to my email reporting the incidents:

"Thank you for the feedback.

The BWF will review the referees report once this is submitted - and refer
your comments to the Technical Commission.

Kind regards

Stuart Borrie
Secretary General
Badminton World Federation"

For those who also want to complain, here's the link to their contact emails:

http://internationalbadminton.org/form.aspx?id=1895

In that short youtube clip on the 2007 HKO MSF, it's interesting to note that LD took a long time to recover (still does) and get ready for the next serve whenever he lost a point.Among the delay tactics he used (and still does) were asking for floor mop,towelling without permission (of course) and walkabout (before LCW's last serve.)
Sure, players that are in the higher level know how to keep focused and not let anything distract and disrupt their game plan. But isn't 2007 HKO MSF the match where LD was so bothered by officials' plastic tags that he insisted that those distracting things be hidden? It was so funny the crowd had a good laugh. Apparently it never even occur to LCW that those could be distractions.So are you implying LD 's not higher level player? That must be a first in badminton history. It hasn't bothered LD since.
In LCW's final serves, LD did indicate he was ready to receive but was smart enough to 'let' because he was not ready to return well. Now, that's match experience.
Using non-badminton tactics may seem clever and is largely a CHN trademark. Some others like KOR and DEN exhibit them but not consistently like CHN. I don't remember INA (and MAS) using such.
I can understand why CHN engages in it. It is because CHN has to win but CHN's not confident enough to win playing pure, clean badminton. The rate at which CHN employs such tactics, if the umpires do their job, CHN would lose most matches because their players have been conditioned to win matches with gamesmanship as part of their game.
Ultimately, the truth will catch up on them. Sooner rather than later.it seems your belief say distractions apply to everyone equally, what kind of fantasy is that? If u want an example, there are certain images that may distract me but would not distract u....;)

So what the audience chuckled at LD's request for covering up reflective badges, LD got the last laugh when LCW had to serve 3 times and he gets to bury LCW on the match point. The audience laughed at that too.

[quote=cooler;1203623]isn't it a dumb comment? the fact was youth, strength and speed DID beat Trikus and Minarti:rolleyes: OR are u saying nan/lulu show the brains/experience/creativity as well?

How can you say that ? You're not even here. You did not watch the game so I believe you are in no place to make such a comment.:mad: before u make accusation, read all the posts first. In this thread, I didn't say which were better, youth/speed or experience/creativity. I was pointing out vip_m had contradicted his own observations, twice.

I suggest you go watch tournaments live for you to be in a position to make harsh comments. Or maybe you are the mind reader:mad::mad::mad:

i didnt say i was a mind reader or who was ready or not ready to serve or to receiver. Did i? i did say that receiver readiness take priority.

Problem is, just because u were there watching it, but do u understand all badminton rules and laws before condemning people left and right?

i didnt say i was a mind reader or who was ready or not ready to serve or to receiver. Did i? i did say that receiver readiness take priority.

Problem is, just because u were there watching it, but do u understand all badminton rules and laws before condemning people left and right?

I never claim to know all the badminton rules, I'm was just reacting to the harsh comments you post. My only point was that you always argue with people who actually saw the incident and you were not even there. :rolleyes:

I never claim to know all the badminton rules, I'm was just reacting to the harsh comments you post. My only point was that you always argue with people who actually saw the incident and you were not even there. :rolleyes:

Dear All Anti-Cooler,

You can't blame this fellow 'cos he is a Lin Dan fan. Lin Dan is a good player but very poor sportsman. Remember when he lost to LCW in KK when he was leading 20-13 in the rubber, He refused to accept the head gear presented to him. (Maybe someone could post the clip here). Yeah, I agree with pjswift that he is always delaying the opponents serve whenever le loses a point.

On another note, imagine how fustrating it would be to serve all 21 points to an opponent who always raise their hands to disrupt you????

Dear All Anti-Cooler,

You can't blame this fellow 'cos he is a Lin Dan fan. Lin Dan is a good player but very poor sportsman. Remember when he lost to LCW in KK when he was leading 20-13 in the rubber, He refused to accept the head gear presented to him. (Maybe someone could post the clip here). Yeah, I agree with pjswift that he is always delaying the opponents serve whenever le loses a point.

On another note, imagine how fustrating it would be to serve all 21 points to an opponent who always raise their hands to disrupt you????

no,we are not anti cooler
we just voice out our disagree;)

In that short youtube clip on the 2007 HKO MSF, it's interesting to note that LD took a long time to recover (still does) and get ready for the next serve whenever he lost a point.Among the delay tactics he used (and still does) were asking for floor mop,towelling without permission (of course) and walkabout (before LCW's last serve.)
Sure, players that are in the higher level know how to keep focused and not let anything distract and disrupt their game plan. But isn't 2007 HKO MSF the match where LD was so bothered by officials' plastic tags that he insisted that those distracting things be hidden? It was so funny the crowd had a good laugh. Apparently it never even occur to LCW that those could be distractions.So are you implying LD 's not higher level player? That must be a first in badminton history. It hasn't bothered LD since.
In LCW's final serves, LD did indicate he was ready to receive but was smart enough to 'let' because he was not ready to return well. Now, that's match experience.
Using non-badminton tactics may seem clever and is largely a CHN trademark. Some others like KOR and DEN exhibit them but not consistently like CHN. I don't remember INA (and MAS) using such.
I can understand why CHN engages in it. It is because CHN has to win but CHN's not confident enough to win playing pure, clean badminton. The rate at which CHN employs such tactics, if the umpires do their job, CHN would lose most matches because their players have been conditioned to win matches with gamesmanship as part of their game.
Ultimately, the truth will catch up on them. Sooner rather than later.

Sorry, I did not watch that match but the question is, was Lee Chong Wei affected by the things Lin Dan did? I suppose a player of Lee Chong Wei's experience and ability will not let these things distract him from his game.

I feel funny when comments like China does this because they want to win. I would like to ask, who does not? Raising the hand tactic was not exclusive of Chinese players and neither did China begin with it. Please go back and watch the 1994 Uber Cup final match between Zhang Ning and Mia Audina and then let me know who consistently raised the hand to indicate was not ready to receive.

I have never been to south east Asian, from reading posts here, I feel that the people over there, in those south east Asian countries, are very hostile to Chinese. Some people mentioned here several days ago that Indonesians support any country who fights China. Even in country like Singapore, 80% are ethnic Chinese, but Chinese from mainland are still the least welcomed there.

Correct me if I'm wrong. If I am right, any people kindly tell me the reason. Thanks

Dear All Anti-Cooler,

You can't blame this fellow 'cos he is a Lin Dan fan. Lin Dan is a good player but very poor sportsman. Remember when he lost to LCW in KK when he was leading 20-13 in the rubber, He refused to accept the head gear presented to him. (Maybe someone could post the clip here). Yeah, I agree with pjswift that he is always delaying the opponents serve whenever le loses a point.

On another note, imagine how fustrating it would be to serve all 21 points to an opponent who always raise their hands to disrupt you????

hahaha, u r still bitter over the hat thing? lol.
Yup, the secret of winning and domination by Lin Dan is out, he use delaying service tactic. lol

freelast, i think u got the real sentiment now. Someone who replied with the reason of 'supporting the underdogs' is just a politically correct assumption. ;)

I remembered 2007 HKO well, Lin dan beat taufik and LCW in the same tournament, silencing all those anti-LD people once again. Our very own photographer was there too:)

I remembered 2007 HKO well, Lin dan beat taufik and LCW in the same tournament, silencing all those anti-LD people once again. Our very own photographer was there too:)

and many remember that how lcw been rob in the co07 and hko07 final;)
vs bcl in co07 final and ld in hko07 final:rolleyes:

Typical LYB-style tactics. Why is anyone surprised by this? :confused:
The OP is right, every win by Chinese team is always tainted by some underhanded de facto cheating. For shame.

and many remember that how lcw been rob in the co07 and hko07 final;)
vs bcl in co07 final and ld in hko07 final:rolleyes:In 07 HKO MSF, LD was leading 20-14 in the rubber set, do u think LCW is gonna pull another come from the dead comeback like in 06 MO, especially LCW is not in home soil??? Aren't u asking too much from your hero lcw?:p

In 07 HKO MSF, LD was leading 20-14 in the rubber set, do u think LCW is gonna pull another come from the dead comeback like in 06 MO, especially LCW is not in home soil??? Aren't u asking too much from your hero lcw?:p

hmm,go back and watch the video again:rolleyes:
lazy to argue on the same ancient issue
seem like u have forget what happen in 2nd and 3rd set;)
erm,lcw is my hero?what a joke
go and see my bc profile
i like others more than lcw

hmm,go back and watch the video again:rolleyes:
lazy to argue on the same ancient issue
seem like u have forget what happen in 2nd and 3rd set;)
erm,lcw is my hero?what a joke
go and see my bc profile
i like others more than lcw
sorry, i only recall good memory from the 07 HKO:)

sorry, i only recall good memory from the 07 HKO:)

just like the king with his new clothes:D
good
may u live in a happy world;)

IMO, I seriously hope that the other teams will wise up and give CHN a taste of their own medicine...:mad:
No, it's not a good idea to adopt CHN's gamesmanship. Non-CHN players have the class and have been able to defeat CHN ones inclusive of their non-badminton tactics. Gamesmanship is not illegal. How much CHN can get away with rests with the umpire. But when a player employs it, he is indirectly indicating his opponent is playing better or superior to him,that's why he needs 'extra weapon'.

Sorry, I did not watch that match but the question is, was Lee Chong Wei affected by the things Lin Dan did? I suppose a player of Lee Chong Wei's experience and ability will not let these things distract him from his game.

I feel funny when comments like China does this because they want to win. I would like to ask, who does not? Raising the hand tactic was not exclusive of Chinese players and neither did China begin with it. Please go back and watch the 1994 Uber Cup final match between Zhang Ning and Mia Audina and then let me know who consistently raised the hand to indicate was not ready to receive.
To suggest CHN played crooked because others gave the idea first does not reflect well on CHN. You mean CHN has no sense of discretion and are all too ready to adopt bad habits researched from history?
I agree with you everyone wants to win. The difference is CHN wants to win at all costs ie even with dishonour.
The current complaint is not about the hand tactic as per Mia Audina. The difference is when the hand was raised. In Mia's case, it was before ZN served. In PO09, it seemed the hand was raised while serve was in motion and the umpire's attention would be on the server and not the receiver. Some call it cheating, I see it as dishonourable but CHN may think of it as clever.
Since this new hand tactic was not limited to one CHN player, it seems to have been taught systemwide and exclusive to CHN.
I respect our Filipino friends for their strong sense of fair play.(Maybe if they had been courtside at HK07, LD might be perceived to have used the same tactic, so it's not new.)
Well, standards of fair play vary with the crowd. It may be highest with PO, then FO and maybe SO. The AE crowd couldn't care less, that's why CHN treated them to some funny matches.

No, it's not a good idea to adopt CHN's gamesmanship. Non-CHN players have the class and have been able to defeat CHN ones inclusive of their non-badminton tactics. Gamesmanship is not illegal. How much CHN can get away with rests with the umpire. But when a player employs it, he is indirectly indicating his opponent is playing better or superior to him,that's why he needs 'extra weapon'.

Well said! Personally, no player under the LYB era have shown to be particularly outstanding in their own right without the malicious tamperings (e.g. match-fixing to help Lin Dan win the gold at OG2008) that have so unjustly plagued this beautiful game.

When the moment of judgment comes, all becomes clear. CY/FHF had no help, and thus lost tamely, and rightly so, to the superior MK/HS in OG08. I dare any pro-LYB/pro-CHN to challenge my claim: every final won under ANY of LYB's lackeys have always been superceded by some sort of tampering, be it match-fixing or this disgusting service interruption tactic.

...
This happened several times.

- Both the server and receiver acknowledge that they're ready.
-The server looks down at the racket, ready to hit the birdie, with no full vision of the receiver.
-The Chinese raises his/her hand up just when the server was about to release the shuttle, giving the server no time to stop his/her racket swing.
-The umpire calls a let.

The first 2 calls are acceptable. But it could be annoying after several occurrences.
...
they raised their hand just a split second before the backward motion of the server's racket or just when he was about to serve. i witnessed it too. i was there on court side. :cool:
..thank you both for sharing that account.
"Release the shuttle"? Meaning just when the racket is about to hit the birdie?

So, i take it, the "hand up" motion occurred between when the server started his/her racket's backward movement and just before the racket's forward movement?
If that is so and venkatesh mentioned the umpire called a "Let", then the Umpire made the correct call (based also on the earlier given BWF rule). In this case, the receiver simply wasn't ready, despite his/her apparent or assumed intention to disrupt the server.

See rule 14.2.1, below, taken from the BWF Laws of Badminton:
14. LETS
14.1 ‘Let’ shall be called by the umpire, or by a player (if there is no umpire), to halt play.
14.2 It shall be a ‘let”, if:
14.2.1 the server serves before the receiver is ready (Law 9.4);

And what does Law 9.4 state?
9.4 The server shall not serve before the receiver is ready. However, the receiver shall be considered to have been ready if a return of the service is attempted.

Is that so called "hand-up" motion illegal? Personally, i don't think so. Is it considered "undue delay"? Now, that is an open debate based on one's interpretation..

Well said! Personally, no player under the LYB era have shown to be particularly outstanding in their own right without the malicious tamperings (e.g. match-fixing to help Lin Dan win the gold at OG2008) that have so unjustly plagued this beautiful game.

When the moment of judgment comes, all becomes clear. CY/FHF had no help, and thus lost tamely, and rightly so, to the superior MK/HS in OG08. I dare any pro-LYB/pro-CHN to challenge my claim: every final won under ANY of LYB's lackeys have always been superceded by some sort of tampering, be it match-fixing or this disgusting service interruption tactic.
LOL, that's easy quiz because your accusation contain no substance
So when china doesn't win, it was a fair match. LOL

take 2009 sudirman cup, china clean sweep them all.
fu/cai beat kkk/tbn and lyd/jjs without any help.
LD beat them all without chen jin, bcl or anybody's help.
in XD, a last moment of change in lady partner still won.

please point out where the chinese team won because of your alleged bad doing..

..thank you both for sharing that account.
"Release the shuttle"? Meaning just when the racket is about to hit the birdie?

So, i take it, the "hand up" motion occurred between when the server started his/her racket's backward movement and just before the racket's forward movement?
If that is so and venkatesh mentioned the umpire called a "Let", then the Umpire made the correct call (based also on the earlier given BWF rule). In this case, the receiver simply wasn't ready, despite his/her apparent or assumed intention to disrupt the server.

See rule 14.2.1, below, taken from the BWF Laws of Badminton:
14. LETS
14.1 ‘Let’ shall be called by the umpire, or by a player (if there is no umpire), to halt play.
14.2 It shall be a ‘let”, if:
14.2.1 the server serves before the receiver is ready (Law 9.4);

And what does Law 9.4 state?
9.4 The server shall not serve before the receiver is ready. However, the receiver shall be considered to have been ready if a return of the service is attempted.

Is that so called "hand-up" motion illegal? Personally, i don't think so. Is it considered "undue delay"? Now, that is an open debate based on one's interpretation..

Like I said, if I were the umpire, I would have also called it a let. The second time it happens, I would warn the receiver to be prepared once he's already acknowledged that he's ready. But done more than thrice, it would appear to me as a delaying tactic or a distraction. Isn't there a rule about distraction and delaying tactics?

So that everyone will be on the same page, I'll describe in detail here what I witnessed with my own eyes:

1. Chinese player and opponent adjust themselves for the servce, with opponent serving. The Chinese player sets his feet, the opponent also takes on serving stance.

2. Opponent prepares to serve: holds shuttle, sets up racket to hit serve. At this time, Chinese player seems ready to receive.

3. Just when opponent is about to serve, suddenly Chinese player puts hand up.

4. From the expression of the opponent, you could clearly see they are irritated after having experienced this a couple of times in a row during crucial points.

I really felt sorry for Yip Pui--she was playing so well until Shixian started doing this.

Some may say, "winning is all that matters." Well, if you have any self-integrity or honor, then a win via these kinds of tactics is not very rewarding. You know at the back of your mind that you did something wrong and don't completely deserve the win. It's what sports lovers refer to as having an "*" (asterisk) beside your win--you may have won, but there's a shadow that clouds the win.

Well, standards of fair play vary with the crowd. It may be highest with PO, then FO and maybe SO. The AE crowd couldn't care less, that's why CHN treated them to some funny matches.
wow, u are so bold and holy that now u extend your low blows to english fans as well. Way to go pjswift. You color is so so obvious - bash china players at all cost

Like I said, if I were the umpire, I would have also called it a let. The second time it happens, I would warn the receiver to be prepared once he's already acknowledged that he's ready. But done more than thrice, it would appear to me as a delaying tactic or a distraction. Isn't there a rule about distraction and delaying tactics?
..but it's basically down to one's (the Umpire's) own interpretation. Read rule 16.4.2

http://internationalbadminton.org/file_download.aspx?id=11623

16.4 Delay in play
16.4.1 Under no circumstances shall play be delayed to enable a player to recover strength or wind or to receive advice.
16.4.2 The umpire shall be the sole judge of any delay in play.

16.6 A player shall not:
16.6.1 deliberately cause delay in, or suspension of, play;
16.6.2 deliberately modify or damage the shuttle in order to change its speed or its flight;
16.6.3 behave in an offensive manner; or
16.6.4 be guilty of misconduct not otherwise covered by the Laws of Badminton.

Thank you very much ctjcad for the reference.

Yup. That's why I said, "If I were the umpire ...," which makes it very subjective. Cooler and the anti-coolers (:p) may debate about this all day long, but it'll boil down to only one thing, that is, it's the umpire's call.



..but it's basically down to one's own interpretation. Read rule 16.4.2

http://internationalbadminton.org/file_download.aspx?id=11623

16.4 Delay in play
16.4.1 Under no circumstances shall play be delayed to enable a player to recover strength or wind or to receive advice.
16.4.2 The umpire shall be the sole judge of any delay in play.

16.5 Advice and leaving the court
16.5.1 Only when the shuttle is not in play (Law 15), shall a player be permitted to receive advice during a match.
16.5.2 No player shall leave the court during a match without the umpire’s permission, except during the intervals as described in Law 16.2.

16.6 A player shall not:
16.6.1 deliberately cause delay in, or suspension of, play;
16.6.2 deliberately modify or damage the shuttle in order to change its speed or its flight;
16.6.3 behave in an offensive manner; or
16.6.4 be guilty of misconduct not otherwise covered by the Laws of Badminton.

I have never been to south east Asian, from reading posts here, I feel that the people over there, in those south east Asian countries, are very hostile to Chinese. Some people mentioned here several days ago that Indonesians support any country who fights China. Even in country like Singapore, 80% are ethnic Chinese, but Chinese from mainland are still the least welcomed there.

Correct me if I'm wrong. If I am right, any people kindly tell me the reason. Thanks
Actually CHN players used to be rather popular with the crowd here. That would be about CH's time. Maybe because of LYB's team strategy and how CHN won their titles, CHN started to lose credibility and respect .Worse still is the fact that LD's infamous behaviour in MO06 has been used as an example of poor sportsmanship in the schools here so he's well known,unfortunately in a negative way esp. by the younger generation. Maybe that's why LD had a frightening experience losing to unlikely Boonsak fully supported by the crowd.
It's important that crowds show LYB's strategy as unacceptable as it is detrimental to badminton as a sport. CHN fans supported LYB because they said history only record titles, not how they were won. Problem is now CHN's titles get quizzed even when clean. There's a growing crowd that will back CHN's opponents. But CHN will not be without support because CHN fans are everywhere and very vocal.Even in Singapore, the CHN fans are loud enough to outdo the local crowd.
However, personally I don't have problems with CHN nationals.They are everywhere now in Singapore. Some locals feel threatened but the CHN nationals do their work better and show better manners so the problem lies with some locals.

So that everyone will be on the same page, I'll describe in detail here what I witnessed with my own eyes:

1. Chinese player and opponent adjust themselves for the servce, with opponent serving. The Chinese player sets his feet, the opponent also takes on serving stance.

2. Opponent prepares to serve: holds shuttle, sets up racket to hit serve. At this time, Chinese player seems ready to receive.

3. Just when opponent is about to serve, suddenly Chinese player puts hand up.

4. From the expression of the opponent, you could clearly see they are irritated after having experienced this a couple of times in a row during crucial points.

I really felt sorry for Yip Pui--she was playing so well until Shixian started doing this.

Some may say, "winning is all that matters." Well, if you have any self-integrity or honor, then a win via these kinds of tactics is not very rewarding. You know at the back of your mind that you did something wrong and don't completely deserve the win. It's what sports lovers refer to as having an "*" (asterisk) beside your win--you may have won, but there's a shadow that clouds the win.
sorry to crush your hope but readiness is a mental state, not a physical one. Since u keep thinking the chinese player was ready to receive, then i have to conclude that u r the blessed one as u can read minds. HALAHUA......You should apply for sainthood

sorry to crush your hope but readiness is a mental state, not a physical one. Since u keep thinking the chinese player was ready to receive, then i have to conclude that u r the blessed one as u can read minds. HALAHUA......You should apply for sainthood

Are you saying a non-clairvoyant person can't tell if his/her opponent is ready to receive serve? The Chinese player, without putting their hand up, adjusts their stance to receive, ready their racket to receive, then looks at server to receive--then when server is about to serve, they put their hand up.

Cooler, please make sense. You're being too defensive. It's hard to defend something that's obviously wrong to any person with common sense--you'll end up getting all twisted inside and spouting a lot of gibberish. If I were you, a supporter of the Chinese team, I'd try to tell them that the rest of the world is on to their tactics and they should just quit doing them. It's not too late.

You're not a real fan if you'll let your favorite sports figures deteriorate into caricatures of their former selves. You'll do your best to get your favorite stars to be the best that they can be and not rationalize their behavior when they're doing something that'll just harm their reputation.

.
Isn't it strange that at the start of the very first rally of a game, the umpire says "Love-All, Play". And the players start with their action/motion.

But during the start of later rallies, the umpire allows players to chose whether they are ready or not.

Yes, our current Badminton Laws do need some modifications.
.

To suggest CHN played crooked because others gave the idea first does not reflect well on CHN. You mean CHN has no sense of discretion and are all too ready to adopt bad habits researched from history?
I agree with you everyone wants to win. The difference is CHN wants to win at all costs ie even with dishonour.
The current complaint is not about the hand tactic as per Mia Audina. The difference is when the hand was raised. In Mia's case, it was before ZN served. In PO09, it seemed the hand was raised while serve was in motion and the umpire's attention would be on the server and not the receiver. Some call it cheating, I see it as dishonourable but CHN may think of it as clever.
Since this new hand tactic was not limited to one CHN player, it seems to have been taught systemwide and exclusive to CHN.
I respect our Filipino friends for their strong sense of fair play.(Maybe if they had been courtside at HK07, LD might be perceived to have used the same tactic, so it's not new.)
Well, standards of fair play vary with the crowd. It may be highest with PO, then FO and maybe SO. The AE crowd couldn't care less, that's why CHN treated them to some funny matches.

I am sorry for you to interpret this way, not my problem.

The player-receiver raise hand to indicate when they are not ready. Raising their hand consistently during the match is fine, according to you if the player is non Chinese, like what Mia did to Zhang Ning. But if the player is Chinese then is was trained to cheat. Furthermore, if the umpire allowed is because it is legal. How that is crooked? Or are you implying the umpire was crooked?

You are welcome to continue bashing the China team. When we check the results a few years later we can only see the results, not the details of the match.

.
Isn't it strange that at the start of the very first rally of a game, the umpire says "Love-All, Play". And the players start with their action/motion.

But during the start of later rallies, the umpire allows players to chose whether they are ready or not.

Yes, our current Badminton Laws do need some modifications.
.

Aren't the players - server and receiver supposed to be ready after the umpire calls the score? Maybe not only rules, but also umpires...

sorry to crush your hope but readiness is a mental state, not a physical one. Since u keep thinking the chinese player was ready to receive, then i have to conclude that u r the blessed one as u can read minds. HALAHUA......You should apply for sainthood

Don't be pathetic... What he described was clearly bad sportsmanship. Taking advantage of the rules. Sure it may not be technically illegal, but that's a problem. It should be. If the receiver makes out that they're ready, they should not be able to suddenly change their minds to break their opponents rhythm and concentration. Just like when a server starts their service motion, they have to go through with it (I believe there's a rule for something like that?), I think the same should apply to the receiver. It kind of sounds like that with the whole delay thing, but the rules could be more specific...

It's not just professional players that do it, I've played people in tournaments that do it nearly every point, and I end up serving over their heads. I end up apologizing the first few times (thinking they're genuinely not ready), but then it gets seriously irritating when I realise what they're doing...

Yes, the umpires need to be more strict on delay tactics.

1. Are you saying a non-clairvoyant person can't tell if his/her opponent is ready to receive serve? The Chinese player, without putting their hand up, adjusts their stance to receive, ready their racket to receive, then looks at server to receive--then when server is about to serve, they put their hand up.

2. Cooler, please make sense. You're being too defensive. It's hard to defend something that's obviously wrong to any person with common sense--you'll end up getting all twisted inside and spouting a lot of gibberish. If I were you, a supporter of the Chinese team, I'd try to tell them that the rest of the world is on to their tactics and they should just quit doing them. It's not too late.

3. You're not a real fan if you'll let your favorite sports figures deteriorate into caricatures of their former selves. You'll do your best to get your favorite stars to be the best that they can be and not rationalize their behavior when they're doing something that'll just harm their reputation.

1. u keep rehashing the same old argument by betting about a person's readiness based on physical hints. Sure a non-clairvoyant person can guess a person's readiness/intention....sometime. Note that i used the word 'guess'. Guessing it right rely on experience and more often by chance. Since u r so certain about SXW readiness, r u an experienced WS player yourself or are u betting your accusation by chance? I still 'guess' u r the holy one should apply for sainthood

2. i can tell u that u had 'misread' me. I was trying to be 'offensive'.
It is not my call to tell CHN team what to do or not do. I follow the rules, so do the china team. If u dont like the rules, petition it to bwf to have it change and have bwf clearly spell out what makes a player being ready. I think the rules right now is pretty good.

3. hahaha, i hardly knew of or support SXW. (i had to consult a bf member here just to help me PAW between SXW and XW) Looking at 07 HKO, at match point, second serve attempt, lcw was serving while LD had his hand up the whole time. LOL. nokh88 see it as another chinese disruptive tactic but i see it as lcw being a nervous wreck, a weakness that have been documented by pemuda and as well as in malaysia NST.

If a player is rushing his/her serve, can that also be considered disruptive too? Was LCW trying to pull a fast one?

.
Isn't it strange that at the start of the very first rally of a game, the umpire says "Love-All, Play". And the players start with their action/motion.

But during the start of later rallies, the umpire allows players to chose whether they are ready or not.

Yes, our current Badminton Laws do need some modifications.
.

You mean like in volleyball?

12.4.4 The server must hit the ball within 8 seconds after
the first referee whistles for service.
USAV 12.4.4: For 14-and-under age groups:
a. The server must contact the ball within 5 sec-
onds after the fi rst referee whistles for service.
b. If the ball, after having been tossed or released
by the server, lands without touching the player,
it is considered a service tossing error.
c. After a service tossing error, the referee must
authorize the service again (re-serve) and the
server must execute it within the next 5 seconds.
d. One service tossing error is permitted for each
service.
12.4.5 A service executed before the referee’s whistle is
cancelled and repeated.
USAV 12.4.5: After the whistle for the service, no other
actions (requests for line-up check, time-out, substitu-
tion, etc.) may be considered until after the ball has
been served and the rally completed. This is true
even if a request has been made after a server
has initiated service action and legally permitted
the ball to fall to the fl oor. A re-serve is consid-
ered to be part of a single effort to serve and must
be completed before any requests may be considered.

cooler, i really need demerol or oxycontin to read this thread though:D

cooler, i really need demerol or oxycontin to read this thread though:D
don't take too much, we don't need 2 MJ in this world:p

cooler is cute when everything he debate on can drag in lindan vs lcw/th
haha

cooler is cute when everything he debate on can drag in lindan vs lcw/th
hahai'm innocent, it was Athelete1234 who drag lin dan into this thread. Pjswift and nokh88 exploited on it further.
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1204312&postcount=23
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1204402&postcount=33

i'm innocent, it was pjswfit and nokh88 who drag lin dan into this

I remembered 2007 HKO well, Lin dan beat taufik and LCW in the same tournament, silencing all those anti-LD people once again. Our very own photographer was there too:)

without quoting anyone,u posted this post in this thread
u are not replying either one of them:)
right?:confused:

don't take too much, we don't need 2 MJ in this world:p
ok, little bit little bit..how much should i take now?:rolleyes:
since u are expert in science.:D

ok, little bit little bit..how much should i take now?:rolleyes:
since u are expert in science.:Dbest policy is to start with small amount and increase dosage until pain disappear. Since u r pacing fast to my post count, u need to some sedative to slow down as well. :D How about a combination of oxycontin + demerol + propofol to start thing off???:p

sorry to crush your hope but readiness is a mental state, not a physical one. Since u keep thinking the chinese player was ready to receive, then i have to conclude that u r the blessed one as u can read minds. HALAHUA......You should apply for sainthood

cooler, you're going too far with this.

Readiness is not physical state? In all my years of playing badminton, I must have made half my serves while my opponent was not ready (I thought he was ready, but obviously I couldn't have read his mind). I was watching the epic Wimbledon finals yesterday, and my goodness, how did Federer know Roddick was ready when he served? Federer just served and lo and behold, Roddick was ACTUALLY ready. Federer is a mind-reader. Roddick is, too.

If I am mentally ready for the exam (did all my studies), I still need to be physically at the exam hall. The mental readiness comes first and then you start readying yourself physically. It seems an obvious thing to say, but I guess people see signs of readiness in another person's physical stance.

i'm innocent, it was Athelete1234 who drag lin dan into this thread. Pjswift and nokh88 exploited on it further.
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1204312&postcount=23
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1204402&postcount=33

Hi Limsy,
You said no one is Anti-Cooler but did you notice that in this thread, it's "mighty" Cooler vs The Rest Of The World, Reminds me of the 70s before CHN was admitted to BWF. They (IBF) wanted to organise a tournament between "mighty" CHN vs The Rest of the world. Those days, CHN had a lot of supporters but sadly now most are against them except a few like Cooler and of course the China Chinese.

Hopefully, on another issue, we may agree with this interesting poor fellow.

Hi Limsy,
You said no one is Anti-Cooler but did you notice that in this thread, it's "mighty" Cooler vs The Rest Of The World, Reminds me of the 70s before CHN was admitted to BWF. They (IBF) wanted to organise a tournament between "mighty" CHN vs The Rest of the world. Those days, CHN had a lot of supporters but sadly now most are against them except a few like Cooler and of course the China Chinese.

Hopefully, on another issue, we may agree with this interesting poor fellow.
I am still one of the supporters of China team, I will never against them :D:p:p

don't take too much, we don't need 2 MJ in this world:p
initially I thought why are you mentioning 2 'Ma Jin (MJ). Afterwards only I realized you are talking about Michael Jackson (MJ) :p

I am still one of the supporters of China team, I will never against them :D:p:p

Yup, I forgot about you momentarily.:p

Yup, I forgot about you momentarily.:p
Glad that you remember me now. I am not from China, I am from a country with 3 main races :p The reason I am supporting China is so simple, because there is no reason for me not to support China :p:D

Typical LYB-style tactics. Why is anyone surprised by this? :confused:
The OP is right, every win by Chinese team is always tainted by some underhanded de facto cheating. For shame.
Biggest sour grapes!
Get a grip!!
So any players lose first round is subject to underhanded tactics?
ROFL?!!! More like their skills are sh*t that's why they lost.

Hi Limsy,
You said no one is Anti-Cooler but did you notice that in this thread, it's "mighty" Cooler vs The Rest Of The World, Reminds me of the 70s before CHN was admitted to BWF. They (IBF) wanted to organise a tournament between "mighty" CHN vs The Rest of the world. Those days, CHN had a lot of supporters but sadly now most are against them except a few like Cooler and of course the China Chinese.

Hopefully, on another issue, we may agree with this interesting poor fellow.

It's because in every sport people prefer the weaker players to upset the stronger. And just cos some people on this forum doesn't support China doesn't reflect everyone elses thinking.
All those in front of their tubes etc.

I am sorry for you to interpret this way, not my problem.

The player-receiver raise hand to indicate when they are not ready. Raising their hand consistently during the match is fine, according to you if the player is non Chinese, like what Mia did to Zhang Ning. But if the player is Chinese then is was trained to cheat. Furthermore, if the umpire allowed is because it is legal. How that is crooked? Or are you implying the umpire was crooked?

You are welcome to continue bashing the China team. When we check the results a few years later we can only see the results, not the details of the match.

They just love it, I mean what else can they do?
Their players aren't delivering the goods, so why not have a cry on a forum trying to explain some loss cos supposedly their skills are good but their mental ability is useless :rolleyes:.

Glad that you remember me now. I am not from China, I am from a country with 3 main races :p The reason I am supporting China is so simple, because there is no reason for me not to support China :p:D

Good reasoning. Btw, I am also from the country with 3 main races. Are we speaking the same language?

It's because in every sport people prefer the weaker players to upset the stronger. And just cos some people on this forum doesn't support China doesn't reflect everyone elses thinking.
All those in front of their tubes etc.

Cooler, you have another ally.

Cooler, you have another ally.
Nice reply?!














15 character.

You are welcome to continue bashing the China team. When we check the results a few years later we can only see the results, not the details of the match.

There's also the "match-fixing" issue on the other threads & other threads before that & the press. Plus also - China fans also bash non China, more specifically Msia players, some with more outlandish adjectives. When it's China player do, it's ok, when non CHina player do, big issue.
Search the threads, you'll find a lot of this.

It goes both ways, tit for tat or 'You bash, then I bash back lah, you cant complain since you do same thing':p:p

Good reasoning. Btw, I am also from the country with 3 main races. Are we speaking the same language?
yes, I am from your country :) Fortunately I am able to control myself not to reply in this thread and another thread of 'China XD will play dirty'. If not I am sure I will on fire, and might be banned :D So, I can only read the replies in this thread and try very hard not to defend.

I support certain Chinese players. The players I support have nothing to do with nationality. That's one of the good things about being from a non-badminton country :).

I don't support bad sportsmanship though. It's not only Chinese players that do this sort of thing either (nor is it "all" Chinese players). Bad sportsmanship is bad sportsmanship no matter who it's from. But clearly some people here are only defending it due to the nationality of those this particular thread concerns. "Clearly" because it happens whenever something like this comes up, and yet if it involved other "certain players", you can bet they'd be arguing the opposite...

Supporter at all costs eh... sometimes it's just a little too much. It's hardly worth arguing against such bias.

yes, I am from your country :) Fortunately I am able to control myself not to reply in this thread and another thread of 'China XD will play dirty'. If not I am sure I will on fire, and might be banned :D So, I can only read the replies in this thread and try very hard not to defend.

We are all here for the love of the game, otherwise why would anyone bother to post messages and I am sure all this are considered very mild arguments, at least on my part and would not so serious to be banned.

yes, I am from your country :) Fortunately I am able to control myself not to reply in this thread and another thread of 'China XD will play dirty'. If not I am sure I will on fire, and might be banned :D So, I can only read the replies in this thread and try very hard not to defend.

Oh well, i have time to read the replies and all the comments posted by them.
For me, it's fun. just enjoy, suetyan. :D
You will be banned if you are not wisely put your arguments and do not compromise to accept others' as respectively theirs. You are safe if you do. Being banned or not, does not really matter, of course, but one thing can you gained from a forum is sharing opinions - why and how.

ah, you know? Few months ago, Malaysia fans are facing the exactly same thing - Try hard not to defend. The bashings are everywhere. It's not about that, actually. Put forward yours, doesn't matter if it hurts. No one on earth has lived through the exact same experiences you have, and no one thinks the exact same thoughts you do. Live with it. All you need is good arguments to support your thoughts. I am encouraging you to put forward your opinions, because i'd like to read suetyan's posts over this matter as well. Why? No reason. I just want to.

yes, I am from your country :) Fortunately I am able to control myself not to reply in this thread and another thread of 'China XD will play dirty'. If not I am sure I will on fire, and might be banned :D So, I can only read the replies in this thread and try very hard not to defend.
..yes, you certainly can participate without sounding "biased". It's called "being diplomatic"..You can learn to defend both sides, if you'd like..;)
Don't worry about "being on fire". Sometimes it's best to let out whatever is inside of you. If the "fire" goes out of control, we always have the mods standing by with their fire extinguisher to extinguish any flames.;) For now, we'd love to see you "being on fire"; so sound it off..:cool:

Hi Limsy,
You said no one is Anti-Cooler but did you notice that in this thread, it's "mighty" Cooler vs The Rest Of The World, Reminds me of the 70s before CHN was admitted to BWF. They (IBF) wanted to organise a tournament between "mighty" CHN vs The Rest of the world. Those days, CHN had a lot of supporters but sadly now most are against them except a few like Cooler and of course the China Chinese.

Hopefully, on another issue, we may agree with this interesting poor fellow.

haha,u are naive
why would i waste my time to anti anyone here?:confused:we all love badminton
i support china player too
wyh is one of them:p
we just sound out ours disagreement;)

It's because in every sport people prefer the weaker players to upset the stronger. And just cos some people on this forum doesn't support China doesn't reflect everyone elses thinking.
All those in front of their tubes etc.

They just love it, I mean what else can they do?
Their players aren't delivering the goods, so why not have a cry on a forum trying to explain some loss cos supposedly their skills are good but their mental ability is useless :rolleyes:.

haha
well
i really feel pity for those that still dont know why so many bcer comment on china:rolleyes:
if u win it clean,we will surely congrates and respect u,but u didnt.;)
winning is one thing and winning in a clean way is another thing.
u can win everything but no one will respect u because the way u win is incorrect
we respect how england work hard to get their 1st ss title in sgo and how india work hard to win their 1st too in io.
we respect them,we salute them.
try to wake up from beautiful dream,try to realise and find out the reason why ur hero didnt earn their credit;)
i wont say anything bad about majin/zheng bo even they beat my fave lyd in many finals;)
because that is true ability;)
dont be the king with his new clothes,why dont accept others critic?or want to continue wear the 'new clothes'?:rolleyes:

Hi Limsy,
You said no one is Anti-Cooler but did you notice that in this thread, it's "mighty" Cooler vs The Rest Of The World, Reminds me of the 70s before CHN was admitted to BWF. They (IBF) wanted to organise a tournament between "mighty" CHN vs The Rest of the world. Those days, CHN had a lot of supporters but sadly now most are against them except a few like Cooler and of course the China Chinese.

Hopefully, on another issue, we may agree with this interesting poor fellow. i thought u guys support the underdogs... :rolleyes:

Cooler, you have another ally.
actually, i have at least 1.4 billion allies:p

cooler, you're going too far with this.

Readiness is not physical state? In all my years of playing badminton, I must have made half my serves while my opponent was not ready (I thought he was ready, but obviously I couldn't have read his mind). I was watching the epic Wimbledon finals yesterday, and my goodness, how did Federer know Roddick was ready when he served? Federer just served and lo and behold, Roddick was ACTUALLY ready. Federer is a mind-reader. Roddick is, too.

If I am mentally ready for the exam (did all my studies), I still need to be physically at the exam hall. The mental readiness comes first and then you start readying yourself physically. It seems an obvious thing to say, but I guess people see signs of readiness in another person's physical stance.

i have answer for that too:p
IMO, mental readiness is more important and it should come last, not first. Quite a contrary to your belief. In tennis, a server goes thru his/her physical routine before actually hit to serve. This is all to prep up for his mental readiness. It seem your obvious assumption isn't so obvious:rolleyes:

In tennis, the prep routine prior to serving is much longer than badminton's serving. In tennis, a receiver can see the ball being toss in the air by the server, and the ball WILL be hit. In badminton, i have no idea when the shuttle is hit by the server. In tennis, there is no flick serve but in badminton, a receiver can be tricked. Therefore, a deceptive serve has to be executed fairly.

I nailed so many receivers with my flick serves but often (80% of the time) the receiver use the 'not ready' excuse to force me to re-serve. I only serve when i 'thot' they look readied. Why do i have to take back my good flick serves just because they didn't like my flick serves?

I know that tactic isn't illegal, but it will the ruin the game.

I know that tactic isn't illegal, but it will the ruin the game.i thot the game is already ruined when we start playing with nylon shuttles:p

i have answer for that too:p
IMO, mental readiness is more important and it should come last, not first. Quite a contrary to your belief. In tennis, a server goes thru his/her physical routine before actually hit to serve. This is all to prep up for his mental readiness. It seem your obvious assumption isn't so obvious:rolleyes:

In tennis, the prep routine prior to serving is much longer than badminton's serving. In tennis, a receiver can see the ball being toss in the air by the server, and the ball WILL be hit. In badminton, i have no idea when the shuttle is hit by the server. In tennis, there is no flick serve but in badminton, a receiver can be tricked. Therefore, a deceptive serve has to be executed fairly.

I nailed so many receivers with my flick serves but often (80% of the time) the receiver use the 'not ready' excuse to force me to re-serve. I only serve when i 'thot' they look readied. Why do i have to take back my good flick serves just because they didn't like my flick serves?


To add, i would not serve if i see a hand is raised.

i thought u guys support the underdogs... :rolleyes:

Hahaha, that was a good one actually :D.

Professionals should know how to handle distractions. I've seen fans bring drums in the gym, sponsors handing thunder stick to fans for clapping, fans screaming, whistling, or even calling "in" and "out" during matches. All such and such can all be considered as "distraction". If you can not handle such situation, then you are not ready to be a pro.

In any sports, there are "gray areas", and most are considered "legal". Whether use it or not, it's down to player him/herself. I do not consider using such as "not fair", as whether fair or unfair, is already well documented in the rule book. As long as there's no written rule to prevent such, then such action is "fair", as either side has the equal chance to choose to use or not to use.

Of course, if such an action is being abused, and messed up the sport in general, I am sure the committee will capture it, and update the rule book. However, before it's officially documented, it's still "fair" to be used.

Actually CHN players used to be rather popular with the crowd here. That would be about CH's time. Maybe because of LYB's team strategy and how CHN won their titles, CHN started to lose credibility and respect .

One thing i am quite confused here.

If a coach find an effective way of winning, while not breaking any written rule, I thought the coach should be consider as a legend, as a hall of fame? Why it's suddenly a shame? The game is judged by the rule book, not by your or my likes.

So, the 1st badminton player who perform jump smash is unsportsman like, as others are gentleman, with both feet on the floor?. The 1st NBA player who decide to drible is cheating, because others prefer to standing still? The 1st player decide to block a shot is cheating, because others only know how to shoot? 1st quarter back decide to run himself is bad, because he suppose to use arm only? 1st NHL player to use the "backnet office" to pass or shoot is not man enough to face the real deal in the front?

If you do not like something, just be man enought to say "i do not like it". You and your group does not represent the general public, and can not over throw the official rule book or laws. Please do not polish yourself as the "god", and use your standard as "god standard" when you judge things.

I suggest you go watch tournaments live for you to be in a position to make harsh comments. Or maybe you are the mind reader:mad::mad::mad:


Then, I suggest you and others talk to LYB and the players themselves or consult with reliable sources (officials, medical staff, etc) for official (not gossip after being drunk in a cafe something) published answers, rathe than quote some "never can be veried" sources, when your guys try to make an arguement. ;)

Remember, once a person can not even dare to bring his quote into the public, I really wonder how "fishy" the comment itself can be.

No, it's not a good idea to adopt CHN's gamesmanship. Non-CHN players have the class and have been able to defeat CHN ones inclusive of their non-badminton tactics.

Isn't that a bit too general here?

Sure they have class, to give a "middle finger" greeting on live TV (Koo), to get banned for drug usage (Sigit), to beat up fans on the side and parking lot (TH), to harrass line judge (TH), to have line judgement in their own twisted mind (a few KOR line judges), etc. Ok, I am ready to hear LYB "break ur leg", LD throwing rackets, and what so ever now. :D

There's also the "match-fixing" issue on the other threads & other threads before that & the press. Plus also - China fans also bash non China, more specifically Msia players, some with more outlandish adjectives. When it's China player do, it's ok, when non CHina player do, big issue.
Search the threads, you'll find a lot of this.

It goes both ways, tit for tat or 'You bash, then I bash back lah, you cant complain since you do same thing':p:p

Is match fixing a thing exclusive to China team? Is LYB the only one doing it? All I know is that LYB was the ONLY one admitting it.

I don't have any interest in bashing players, I am interested in good matches. I noted as per my memory (which is fading anyways) Mia Audina was the first player using this tactic during the matches. I have never mentioned anywhere that Mia Audina was a dirty player or employed underhand technique.

Players always find ways to challenge the rules. No matter what changes you make to the rules, they will never be perfect. In my opinion, the ideal way would be to make players aware of such situations and not let them disrupt their concentration during the games.

From what I saw in the MD SF, (as I have guessed) the timing is indeed a bit different from what I usually saw in matches. In fact, the partner of Sun Junjie posed ready for several seconds and suddenly raised his hand just a little bit at exactly the same moment Gunawan served. In fact I could not tell which happened first: Gunawan hit the shuttlecock, or his opponent raised hand, even after watching it several times.

If this is what happened in WS, then it is understandable that YPY got distracted but could not stop her serving action.

I don't know whether Mia Audina did the same thing with the same "perfect" timing. I don't remember seeing such perfectly timed action in my collection of >500 matches.

Anyway, these are minor issues and are easy to overcome. I just don't understand how could the umpire judge that YPY lose a point (usually when such things happen it's a let). Maybe he didn't see the hand raised?

Is match fixing a thing exclusive to China team? Is LYB the only one doing it? All I know is that LYB was the ONLY one admitting it.

I don't have any interest in bashing players, I am interested in good matches. I noted as per my memory (which is fading anyways) Mia Audina was the first player using this tactic during the matches. I have never mentioned anywhere that Mia Audina was a dirty player or employed underhand technique.

Players always find ways to challenge the rules. No matter what changes you make to the rules, they will never be perfect. In my opinion, the ideal way would be to make players aware of such situations and not let them disrupt their concentration during the games.

The point is, this coach is in fact not the discoverer of this "effective way". Everyone knows such things. He is just the first one who is "brave" enough to use it.


If a coach find an effective way of winning, while not breaking any written rule, I thought the coach should be consider as a legend, as a hall of fame? Why it's suddenly a shame? The game is judged by the rule book, not by your or my likes.

So, the 1st badminton player who perform jump smash is unsportsman like, as others are gentleman, with both feet on the floor?. The 1st NBA player who decide to drible is cheating, because others prefer to standing still? The 1st player decide to block a shot is cheating, because others only know how to shoot? 1st quarter back decide to run himself is bad, because he suppose to use arm only? 1st NHL player to use the "backnet office" to pass or shoot is not man enough to face the real deal in the front?

If you do not like something, just be man enought to say "i do not like it". You and your group does not represent the general public, and can not over throw the official rule book or laws. Please do not polish yourself as the "god", and use your standard as "god standard" when you judge things.

Is match fixing a thing exclusive to China team? Is LYB the only one doing it? All I know is that LYB was the ONLY one admitting it.

I don't have any interest in bashing players, I am interested in good matches. I noted as per my memory (which is fading anyways) Mia Audina was the first player using this tactic during the matches. I have never mentioned anywhere that Mia Audina was a dirty player or employed underhand technique.

Players always find ways to challenge the rules. No matter what changes you make to the rules, they will never be perfect. In my opinion, the ideal way would be to make players aware of such situations and not let them disrupt their concentration during the games. Yup,we didn't bring up this hand raising thing from Mia even tho i know why she does it. By 1994, she was huffing and puffing alot(without going into further detail why). The hand raising gesture would buy her a few more seconds to catch her breath. Is this an unfair advantage to her opponents? I never hear a CHN fan complained about it. Even now, we accepted what Mia did is part of the game.

Watch the MDSF, 2nd game, later part.

What would you do if the hand is raised at the same moment you hit the birdie? ;)

If there is no umpire present, I guess an argument will follow? :D:D

To add, i would not serve if i see a hand is raised.

Watch the MDSF, 2nd game, later part.

What would you do if the hand is raised at the same moment you hit the birdie? ;)

If there is no umpire present, I guess an argument will follow? :D:Dnope, i'll re-serve. I have high confidence in my service(especially with mavis shuttles.) :)
The receiver has been disrupted just as i have which i can take advantage of. I have no complaints.

Haha. As you said, you will choose to re-serve because you are confident in your serving -- in other words, if you are not (say your opponent is Tony Gunawan), then you may choose to argue? :D:D:D

nope, i'll re-serve. I have high confidence in my service(especially with mavis shuttles.) :)
The receiver has been disrupted just as i have which i can take advantage of. I have no complaints.

Haha. As you said, you will choose to re-serve because you are confident in your serving -- in other words, if you are not (say your opponent is Tony Gunawan), then you may choose to argue? :D:D:Di checkmated u, please stop trying to wiggle yourself out:p plus i didn't see your hand up:p

Jens Eriksen used this tactic of raising the arm up at the time of the opponent serving. It happened in the All England against Lee WW/Choong TF. I felt the umpire should have given a yellow card against Jens. It was so blatent.

Seems to have 2 schools of thoughts here: Chinese supporters who claime that the Chinese team is allowed to play any tactic they want as long as it is legal or the umpire is alright with it. Non-Chinese supporters who claim that underhanded tactics like breaking your opponents spirit/concentration without any involvement of your badminton skill are not to be encouraged on court.

Here is my personal opinion, Chinese teams are allowed do whatever they want on court as long as umpire is alright with it but prepare for the consequence. Do not expect others to respect you when you are employing unscrupulous act and exploiting loopholes in rules just to get an edge over the others. Sell your soul to the devil if you must for I could care less what will happen to those unprincipled players when they are off court as long as they don't caused unwanted delay to the match that will upset the crowd(which they did, consider some of the non-Chinese supporters are not comfortable when they are watching the match).

Tactics such as LYB's infamous act of threatening to break a player's legs/swearing at a certain player during their matches in an attempt to disrupt a player's concentration are to be condemned. For such acts not only project a person's poor upbringing, they also project negative images to the spectators giving an impression that badminton is such a cheap sport whereby players are allowed to resort to such tactics as personally attacking others just to win a game. Such acts are often term as unproffesional and I sincerely hope that those teams that are employing such tactics will put some class into their games and destroy their opponents with pure skills but not with some questionable strategy. You can forget on bragging about how awesome your favourite player is by looking at his/her won titles IF(note the if, not saying he is doing this right now) he/she does not have the slightest trace of dignity/moral left in him/her(employing the loopholes in rules), he/she is not worth to be respected as he/her is not winning the matches through the highest level of badminton play.

Now for the non-Chinese supporters: you guys are at fault too. If you feel so strongly about such act. Put in more pressure to ensure that BWF will do something to rectify such practice. If this is not practical, ask the victims to wise up and prepare for such underhanded tactics(like breaking lin dan's and li yong bo's legs way before they could even shout a single word....just kidding anyway....) in the next encouter. Or when the victioms encountered such players and they lost their concentration before they serve, demand a few seconds from umpire to rest before regaining their concentration to serve again. You don't lose anything by asking right? Or wait until they are ready before you post your stance to serve.

IMO, I think employing such tactics like disrupting a player's concentration or spirit without employing your badminton skill are unethical and unprofessional. And if a player needs to resort to this just to win a match, all there is left to be said to such a player is...shame on you, you pathetic fellow.

Just my 2 cents.

Seems to have 2 schools of thoughts here: Chinese supporters who claime that the Chinese team is allowed to play any tactic they want as long as it is legal or the umpire is alright with it. Non-Chinese supporters who claim that underhanded tactics like breaking your opponents spirit/concentration without any involvement of your badminton skill are not to be encouraged on court.

Here is my personal opinion, Chinese teams are allowed do whatever they want on court as long as umpire is alright with it but prepare for the consequence. Do not expect others to respect you when you are employing unscrupulous act and exploiting loopholes in rules just to get an edge over the others. Sell your soul to the devil if you must for I could care less what will happen to those unprincipled players when they are off court as long as they don't caused unwanted delay to the match that will upset the crowd(which they did, consider some of the non-Chinese supporters are not comfortable when they are watching the match).

Tactics such as LYB's infamous act of threatening to break a player's legs/swearing at a certain player during their matches in an attempt to disrupt a player's concentration are to be condemned. For such acts not only project a person's poor upbringing, they also project negative images to the spectators giving an impression that badminton is such a cheap sport whereby players are allowed to resort to such tactics as personally attacking others just to win a game. Such acts are often term as unproffesional and I sincerely hope that those teams that are employing such tactics will put some class into their games and destroy their opponents with pure skills but not with some questionable strategy. You can forget on bragging about how awesome your favourite player is by looking at his/her won titles IF(note the if, not saying he is doing this right now) he/she does not have the slightest trace of dignity/moral left in him/her(employing the loopholes in rules), he/she is not worth to be respected as he/her is not winning the matches through the highest level of badminton play.

Now for the non-Chinese supporters: you guys are at fault too. If you feel so strongly about such act. Put in more pressure to ensure that BWF will do something to rectify such practice. If this is not practical, ask the victims to wise up and prepare for such underhanded tactics(like breaking lin dan's and li yong bo's legs way before they could even shout a single word....just kidding anyway....) in the next encouter. Or when the victioms encountered such players and they lost their concentration before they serve, demand a few seconds from umpire to rest before regaining their concentration to serve again. You don't lose anything by asking right? Or wait until they are ready before you post your stance to serve.

IMO, I think employing such tactics like disrupting a player's concentration or spirit without employing your badminton skill are unethical and unprofessional. And if a player needs to resort to this just to win a match, all there is left to be said to such a player is...shame on you, you pathetic fellow.

Just my 2 cents.look like u r just a new comer wanting to pile into this debate without having the background information. U like to broad brush chinese players as cheater without proving one case in this alleged underhanded service debate. U base your biased view on one's person observation which his knowledge of the badminton rules is questionable. Base on your tone, u (like many others here) see this as a non-chinese versus chinese supporters debate even though other non-chinese players have used similar tactic as well. Your posts worth zero cent because it is just another run of the mill rant on the chinese players. It has no substance or content to support your claim. U r guessing on vip_m's guess being correct. That's all u have so far.


PS: All badminton serves are done underhanded. Read the rulebook:rolleyes:

i have answer for that too:p
IMO, mental readiness is more important and it should come last, not first. Quite a contrary to your belief. In tennis, a server goes thru his/her physical routine before actually hit to serve. This is all to prep up for his mental readiness. It seem your obvious assumption isn't so obvious:rolleyes:

In tennis, the prep routine prior to serving is much longer than badminton's serving. In tennis, a receiver can see the ball being toss in the air by the server, and the ball WILL be hit. In badminton, i have no idea when the shuttle is hit by the server. In tennis, there is no flick serve but in badminton, a receiver can be tricked. Therefore, a deceptive serve has to be executed fairly.

I nailed so many receivers with my flick serves but often (80% of the time) the receiver use the 'not ready' excuse to force me to re-serve. I only serve when i 'thot' they look readied. Why do i have to take back my good flick serves just because they didn't like my flick serves?

What physical routine? I was talking about physical readiness. When players go through their routine, they are readying themselves mentally, and when they think they are mentally ready, they go to their receiver's spot and gets ready for the opponent's serve. Now they are physically ready. I thought this is as obvious as night and day, but somehow I think you're gonna twist this all the way around again.

80% is pretty high. Your matches must be super competitive. How many percent of your low serves did the receivers use the 'not ready' excuse? Maybe they are actually ready, just not "ready" for your flicks. In other words, cheating.

yes,as long as the umpire take no action,u can do whatever u want?:confused:
so will u teach ur children,u can steal anything as long as there no one catch u?:confused:
u can drive away even when the traffic light is red as long as the police is not there?:rolleyes:
we dont do bad thing because it is incorrect,not because scare of punishment.;)
its ok if someone older than me dont understand this concept,such a pity life.:cool:

actually, i have at least 1.4 billion allies:p

That's why I am calling you "mighty":D

IMO, I think employing such tactics like disrupting a player's concentration or spirit without employing your badminton skill are unethical and unprofessional. And if a player needs to resort to this just to win a match, all there is left to be said to such a player is...shame on you, you pathetic fellow.

Just my 2 cents.

The problems is...most of Chn players have enough skills in badminton to win titles........they are brilliant.......They dont need all this to win.......sadly :(

The problems is...most of Chn players have enough skills in badminton to win titles........they are brilliant.......They dont need all this to win.......sadly :(

That's the irony, jasonmarc. The Chinese player are so good, talented, experienced and well-trained, they really don't need to resort to these tactics to win.

And when they do face an opponent better than them, they should just do their best and if they lose, they lose. No loss in dignity and integrity in that. You lose those attributes when you resort to these underhanded tactics.

That's the irony, jasonmarc. The Chinese player are so good, talented, experienced and well-trained, they really don't need to resort to these tactics to win.

And when they do face an opponent better than them, they should just do their best and if they lose, they lose. No loss in dignity and integrity in that. You lose those attributes when you resort to these underhanded tactics.

I completely agree. Being Chinese myself, I was an avid supporter of the Chinese team. I was so disappointed everytime I see tactics, walkovers, and game fixing to assure a win. Their cold attitude toward their fans is another factor.:( With their talents and skills, the can always win, that is a more meaningful victory.

The other Chinese players outside the China Team are completely diffirent.:)

I completely agree. Being Chinese myself, I was an avid supporter of the Chinese team. I was so disappointed everytime I see tactics, walkovers, and game fixing to assure a win. Their cold attitude toward their fans is another factor.:( With their talents and skills, the can always win, that is a more meaningful victory.

The other Chinese players outside the China Team are completely diffirent.:)


Fully agree with you, especially the last sentence.

That's the irony, jasonmarc. The Chinese player are so good, talented, experienced and well-trained, they really don't need to resort to these tactics to win.

And when they do face an opponent better than them, they should just do their best and if they lose, they lose. No loss in dignity and integrity in that. You lose those attributes when you resort to these underhanded tactics.


To use your tone of speaking, I respect a lot of non-CHN players as well. They are very good, very experienced, and they surely can win over LYB's team at any given day by using their own racket skills. I am sure regardless CHN team has 3 participants or 15 participants, elite player such as LCW still have a very good chance to give a run to the championship.

So, why using political powers to even not allow many skill - qualified CHN players to participate in events such as WC, OG, etc? If you think you can beat them anyway, why not let them in and taste your mighty skills?

I was so disappointed everytime I see tactics, walkovers, and game fixing to assure a win. Their cold attitude toward their fans is another factor.:( With their talents and skills, the can always win, that is a more meaningful victory.

The other Chinese players outside the China Team are completely diffirent.:)


To follow your tone, I am so disappointed to not able to see players as good as XXF, XXZ, CY, etc to even participate in certain events. The lovely "limited entry per nation" rule simply killed a lot of potential good matches, and not fair for a player (such as CY) who trained for his life time for the sport he loves and so good at.

Personally, I consider not even be able to see such players to perform, is a pity to the hard working players themselves, and an insult to the fans, who perfer the skill level over the political votes.

So, do you want to capture a title with all the best of the best for battle, or you think it's more meaningful, when half of the participants are ranking 30 or even 50 beyond, instead of the WC champion and runner ups? :rolleyes:

Sure, the ones left are different. They enjoyed all the benefits they can get, and somehow, it took them 10-20 years to realize, hmmmm... not good (for me...). Then, join the freedom. So, I wonder if they have such high moral standard, why it has to take them 20 yrs to join the "good side"? :rolleyes:

so will u teach ur children,u can steal anything as long as there no one catch u?:confused:

No, I will not.

However, if I can change the law, and make it as biased as possible, to make my own evil attempts look like a "god standard", then I will let my kids to do it.

This way, not only they got the real benefit, they will look good, at the cost of others tears and blood. :cool:

To use your tone of speaking, I respect a lot of non-CHN players as well. They are very good, very experienced, and they surely can win over LYB's team at any given day by using their own racket skills. I am sure regardless CHN team has 3 participants or 15 participants, elite player such as LCW still have a very good chance to give a run to the championship.

So, why using political powers to even not allow many skill - qualified CHN players to participate in events such as WC, OG, etc? If you think you can beat them anyway, why not let them in and taste your mighty skills?

Surely you are bringing in a totally separate matter. Being on one side of the CHN gamesmanship debate does not automatically put you on the "limit" side of the nationality quota debate.

Though I am on the anti-gamesmanship side (be it CHN or non-CHN players), I agree with you in taking out the limitation. In fact, I have voiced this from years ago. I disagree with you on two particulars. It's tough to do that for OG. OG has its own set of regulations outside the control of BWF. And secondly, you really think it's political machinations playing a part in this? You really think there is evil intent to just stop CHN rather than the good intention of letting more nations take part? I belief there is good intention in the limitation (and not about CHN) but I still think it should be removed.

Surely you are bringing in a totally separate matter. Being on one side of the CHN gamesmanship debate does not automatically put you on the "limit" side of the nationality quota debate.

Though I am on the anti-gamesmanship side (be it CHN or non-CHN players), I agree with you in taking out the limitation. In fact, I have voiced this from years ago. I disagree with you on two particulars. It's tough to do that for OG. OG has its own set of regulations outside the control of BWF. And secondly, you really think it's political machinations playing a part in this? You really think there is evil intent to just stop CHN rather than the good intention of letting more nations take part? I belief there is good intention in the limitation (and not about CHN) but I still think it should be removed.


I think you are missing my point.

Your (and some others) definition of "gamemanship" focus on the action on the court, usually only involve 1 or 2 individual players or coach.

My definition of "gamemanship" also includes "abusing political power to munipulate the sport". To me, that's even worse of an impact, if we judge the sport in general.

Let me ask you, which crime is worse to the society in general:
1. An individual breaks the law, by beating up another person
2. A powerful politician (or a group) munipulate the law, to gain profit for himself / group.

My point is, instead of pin point every single individual incident, let's NOT to forget about the "major event" happening behind the screen, and being polished by munipulated "god standard". :cool:

And secondly, you really think it's political machinations playing a part in this? You really think there is evil intent to just stop CHN rather than the good intention of letting more nations take part?

Well, this is as hard to be proven as we try to put LYB on real trial. You know, I know, we all know. The lawyers may not be able to proof that, because the policy is being polished to be "god standard".

I think you are missing my point.

Your (and some others) definition of "gamemanship" focus on the action on the court, usually only involve 1 or 2 individual players or coach.

My definition of "gamemanship" also includes "abusing political power to munipulate the sport". To me, that's even worse of an impact, if we judge the sport in general.

Let me ask you, which crime is worse to the society in general:
1. An individual breaks the law, by beating up another person
2. A powerful politician (or a group) munipulate the law, to gain profit for himself / group.

My point is, instead of pin point every single individual incident, let's NOT to forget about the "major event" happening behind the screen, and being polished by munipulated "god standard". :cool:

Of course (2) is worse, IF (<- notice the capitalisation) it is true. Let's also not trump up a major event to distract people from the smaller events.

Well, this is as hard to be proven as we try to put LYB on real trial. You know, I know, we all know. The lawyers may not be able to proof that, because the policy is being polished to be "god standard".


Both are unprovable, but that does not mean the likelihood of both are the same. I cannot prove (nor disprove) that there is a teapot orbiting around Jupiter. I also cannot prove (nor disprove) that intelligent lifeforms exist elsewhere in the universe. That does not mean likelihood of a Jupiter-orbiting teapot = likelihood of intelligent aliens existing.

No, I will not.

However, if I can change the law, and make it as biased as possible, to make my own evil attempts look like a "god standard", then I will let my kids to do it.

This way, not only they got the real benefit, they will look good, at the cost of others tears and blood. :cool:

So, do you means the rules in Badminton are biased that makes someone attempts look like legal...........:confused::confused:...

So, do you means the rules in Badminton are biased that makes someone attempts look like legal...........:confused::confused:...

From my point of view, "limited entries per nation" is an example of a biased rule / structure, which certainly befenits certain individuals / groups, at the cost of others.

Sure sure, OG has its special meaning, etc. What about WC then? What's the point of a championship, if some of the best players in the world can not even attend?

And seriously, isn't the foundamental of OG spirit is "let the best compete", rather than, "let who ever wants to compete to compete" or "let who ever cry the most to compete"? :rolleyes:

Anyway, enough said, before I got flamed in another thread. :D

From my point of view, "limited entries per nation" is an example of a biased rule / structure, which certainly befenits certain individuals / groups, at the cost of others.

Sure sure, OG has its special meaning, etc. What about WC then? What's the point of a championship, if some of the best players in the world can not even attend?

And seriously, isn't the foundamental of OG spirit is "let the best compete", rather than, "let who ever wants to compete to compete" or "let who ever cry the most to compete"? :rolleyes:

Anyway, enough said, before I got flamed in another thread. :D

Are you defending the Chinese team's use of the underhanded tactic of disrupting an opponent's serve by raising their hand just when they're about to serve several times in a row during crucial points by saying this is not "gamesmanship"? And then defining "gamesmanship" as not allowing everyone who wants to compete at tournaments? Apples and oranges, sir. The two situations don't have anything to do with each other. You're just engaging in obfuscation.

Are you defending the Chinese team's use of the underhanded tactic of disrupting an opponent's serve by raising their hand just when they're about to serve several times in a row during crucial points by saying this is not "gamesmanship"? And then defining "gamesmanship" as not allowing everyone who wants to compete at tournaments? Apples and oranges, sir. The two situations don't have anything to do with each other. You're just engaging in obfuscation.

after all these discussion, it seem non-chinese players have poor reception to hand signals. The current resolution from official by requesting a re-serve is not happy to them. IMO, the only way to resolve this is have all receivers raise their hand, and server can only initiate serving when the receiver's hand is lowered below his/her racket handle. If the hand is not lowered after 10 seconds, it is a delay of game and a warning is issued to the receiver. Now,go sell it to BWF.

after all these discussion, it seem non-chinese players have poor reception to hand signals. The current resolution from official by requesting a re-serve is not happy to them. IMO, the only way to resolve this is have all receivers raise their hand, and server can only initiate serving when the receiver's hand is lowered below his/her racket handle. If the hand is not lowered after 10 seconds, it is a delay of game and a warning is issued to the receiver. Now, go sell it to BWF.



.
Yes cooler, this would prevent the server from rushing the Service. But, from what is mentioned in Post#1 of this thread, the problem is:


...... when their opponent is just about to serve, they suddenly raise their hand (again) to stop them and interrupt their rhythm......




Our Badminton laws need to understand what is irritating (or unfair) for both server and receiver.
.

I don't know why people are talking about this. Is it you put Chinese team in the title to make it a hot topic?

Rasing your hand while opponent is serving is a normal practice. Because you are not ready. Some time your body is ready, but your mind is not. That's why some player needs a few more seconds to settle down and raise hand when seeing opponent about to serve.

I would say that almost every players have used this in every match, if not every game. Someone use more than the others. We recreational players use it too.

You see more Chinese players doing it because 1. There are more Chinese players in any stages of the tourmanent. 2. You pay more attension on Chinese players.

Even if some players (Chinese or non-Chinese) do it more than others, critisize that player. Do not make it a conspiration theory. Mia Audina was famous doing it. Can I say it is a strategy for Indonesia team?

.

Our Badminton laws need to understand what is irritating (or unfair) for both server and receiver.
.No, reverse that. It is the irrated players who need to understand the badminton laws. The law doesn't understand human nature.

I don't know why people are talking about this. Is it you put Chinese team in the title to make it a hot topic?

Rasing your hand while opponent is serving is a normal practice. Because you are not ready. Some time your body is ready, but your mind is not. That's why some player needs a few more seconds to settle down and raise hand when seeing opponent about to serve.

I would say that almost every players have used this in every match, if not every game. Someone use more than the others. We recreational players use it too.

You see more Chinese players doing it because 1. There are more Chinese players in any stages of the tourmanent. 2. You pay more attension on Chinese players.

Even if some players (Chinese or non-Chinese) do it more than others, critisize that player. Do not make it a conspiration theory. Mia Audina was famous doing it. Can I say it is a strategy for Indonesia team?
So far i only hear whining from jealous fans. I don't hear about this hand raising thing from the suppose victimized players nor their coach

No, I will not.

However, if I can change the law, and make it as biased as possible, to make my own evil attempts look like a "god standard", then I will let my kids to do it.

This way, not only they got the real benefit, they will look good, at the cost of others tears and blood. :cool:

a wrong is a wrong,even the law says it is correct,no one will acknowledge it is a correct act.;)

see the different?

a wrong is a wrong,even the law says it is correct,no one will acknowledge it is a correct act.;)

see the different?

The different is there, but some people just could not/dont want to see it...!

Dont waste too much time for this lah.Limsy.....!

Lets move on......more tournament is coming....lets observe in the coming tourneys.................:D:D

First, they are complaining that only some hard core jealous Mas and INA fans making noises about this wrong doing........but now fans from Philippines also there to raise their voice.;)....... lets see if fans from INDIA will make noice later........:D:D

The different is there, but some people just could not/dont want to see it...!

Dont waste too much time for this lah.Limsy.....!

Lets move on......more tournament is coming....lets observe in the coming tourneys.................:D:D

First, they are complaining that only some hard core jealous Mas and INA fans making noises about this wrong doing........but now fans from Philippines also there to raise their voice.;)....... lets see if fans from INDIA will make noice later........:D:D

ya,better pay attention on upcoming ajc:D
see any leng lui to be my friend/girl friend(joke):p
hehe,so happy.
will attend both ajc(100%)/wjc(waiting for my 2nd schedule):D
to observe the new talent:)

Are you defending the Chinese team's use of the underhanded tactic of disrupting an opponent's serve by raising their hand just when they're about to serve several times in a row during crucial points by saying this is not "gamesmanship"? And then defining "gamesmanship" as not allowing everyone who wants to compete at tournaments? Apples and oranges, sir. The two situations don't have anything to do with each other. You're just engaging in obfuscation.

You see the proble here? You debate based on what is apple, what is orange from your point of view. When I try to say, "sir, your apple is actually an orange, and your orange is actually an apple", you tried to used your original biased definition to say I am wrong.

My whole point is, how you say I am wrong, when your definition and my definition is not the same to begin with? :rolleyes:

To me, "gamemanship" is simple as one side use whatever method to gain advantage over the other side during competition. Your definition limit such during actual on court play, but my definition is broader to cover the sport, including event structure and regulation. Why my definition is so wrong when compare to yours? :cool:

The different is there, but some people just could not/dont want to see it...!

Dont waste too much time for this lah.Limsy.....!

Lets move on......more tournament is coming....lets observe in the coming tourneys.................:D:D

First, they are complaining that only some hard core jealous Mas and INA fans making noises about this wrong doing........but now fans from Philippines also there to raise their voice.;)....... lets see if fans from INDIA will make noice later........:D:D

I agree with you - people don't see or don't want to see. Where is the rule that prevents a player to tell the umpire that he/she is not ready? The biggest issue with this post as I see is discrimination - if Chinese players is underhand and unethical, but non Chinese players is OK and legal.

Playing badminton with our friends is one thing, competing in high level tournaments is a totally different thing. Professional players don't care much about the noise. They do care most is the result.

I agree with you - people don't see or don't want to see. Where is the rule that prevents a player to tell the umpire that he/she is not ready? The biggest issue with this post as I see is discrimination - if Chinese players is underhand and unethical, but non Chinese players is OK and legal.

Playing badminton with our friends is one thing, competing in high level tournaments is a totally different thing. Professional players don't care much about the noise. They do care most is the result.

No, there is no discrimination here....we did complained about it when Eriksen of danmark did it, when Kor team playing tricks in recent Thomas Cup event and even when TH walked away from playing in HK Open also we made noise...so its not only chn players.....but it really looked like always the chn got the complaint is because they were the one who did it most often compared to players from other country........;)...We all love Chn players, we are talking abot the 'wrong' doing here not the nationality of the players...dont get too emotional....

No, there is no discrimination here....we did complained about it when Eriksen of danmark did it, when Kor team playing tricks in recent Thomas Cup event and even when TH walked away from playing in HK Open also we made noise...so its not only chn players.....but it really looked like always the chn got the complaint is because they were the one who did it most often compared to players from other country........;)...We all love Chn players, we are talking abot the 'wrong' doing here not the nationality of the players...dont get too emotional....
That's absolutely untrue!
You may do but others rather see them fall down to pieces and Malaysia to begin to actually win some decent tourneys.

No, there is no discrimination here....we did complained about it when Eriksen of danmark did it, when Kor team playing tricks in recent Thomas Cup event and even when TH walked away from playing in HK Open also we made noise...so its not only chn players.....but it really looked like always the chn got the complaint is because they were the one who did it most often compared to players from other country........;)...We all love Chn players, we are talking abot the 'wrong' doing here not the nationality of the players...dont get too emotional....

I am not emotional and the posts against players do not affect me. As I stated in this thread, only Chinese players were at fault. It has been indicated that this 'tactic' was not started by Chinese players, as I can remember.

Now classifying players raising using as an underhand technique without any rule to base on is something that I can't agree with. Badminton like any sport is governed by rules and there are umpires and referees to enforce the rules. You can't say the players did anything wrong when the umpire was present and agree the the players conduct.

If one feels the rules must be amended to make the game fairer, well then write to the competent entities to have it done.

That's absolutely untrue!
You may do but others rather see them fall down to pieces and Malaysia to begin to actually win some decent tourneys.
Oh well sir, of course it's cool - Malaysia to take over China's superiority. ( read this and laugh at it, i don't mind. *wink* ). I don't know if this one statement means that we all hate China Players.

That's absolutely untrue!
You may do but others rather see them fall down to pieces and Malaysia to begin to actually win some decent tourneys.

Oh,..Volcom, viver...so sorry u all feel that way......:(

Oh,..Volcom, viver...so sorry u all feel that way......:(

Don't understand what you mean... :confused: But if this issue is too complex for your understanding, we just leave it as it is.;)

Don't understand what you mean... :confused: But if this issue is too complex for your understanding, we just leave it as it is.;)

I mean.....i m so sorry u and volcom feel that Chn team being discriminated........:rolleyes:

No discrimination here......dont make it too complex...........;)

a wrong is a wrong,even the law says it is correct,no one will acknowledge it is a correct act.;)

see the different?


Well, whether you like or I like does not mean anyone should agree. However, only when the public agree or accept, then it makes into the law book, which enforce for everyone to obey.

Once something is not in the law book, it only represents an individual, or a small group. Nothing can satisfy everyone in the world. So, do you mean as long as someone jumps out and whinning, then, it's "wrong" even if the law book never includes it?

Please do not polish your (or your small group's) own feeling into a god standard. You only represents yourself, not the world. :o

You see the proble here? You debate based on what is apple, what is orange from your point of view. When I try to say, "sir, your apple is actually an orange, and your orange is actually an apple", you tried to used your original biased definition to say I am wrong.

My whole point is, how you say I am wrong, when your definition and my definition is not the same to begin with? :rolleyes:

To me, "gamemanship" is simple as one side use whatever method to gain advantage over the other side during competition. Your definition limit such during actual on court play, but my definition is broader to cover the sport, including event structure and regulation. Why my definition is so wrong when compare to yours? :cool:

hmm,then u so sure ur 'apple' is actually the real apple and ur 'orange' is actually the real orange?:cool:

This topic still haven't end yet? Phil Open is really controversial.

hmm,then u so sure ur 'apple' is actually the real apple and ur 'orange' is actually the real orange?:cool:

Well, I only try to say, if you want to use the individual action, to reflect the whole team, or even nation's culture (as some posters did), then, the definition of the "gamemanship" as well should be as broad as the entire sport structure, rather than 1 or 2 individual or team. ;)