Hey everyone, had a conversation with a friend last night about racquets and he mentioned that back when he was in HK, he owned a racquet that is all Ti, which means 360 degree titanium mesh head, Ti shaft, and everything is one piece mold. Just wondering if such a racquet really exist out there since I can't seem to find it online. The closest one I've found is made by Genji, it is all Ti but the racquet is not one piece mold, as in the shaft and handle are two separate piece.

Wow...

How much did he pay for that? Can he provide us a pic for that, if he still own that racket.

I've never seen a all Ti racket before...

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/ebadminton/360degultitr.html

that's the link for the Genji racquet I was talking about. Only $89 USD too, interesting. My friend said he paid $300 USD for that racquet and his father sold it last year for even more money. I don't know, the story seemed a little far-fetch, that's why I am asking the forum to check on the validity on the existence of such racquet.

apparently the carlton aerogear 2000tfx is supposed to be one piece titanium

Originally posted by jwu
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/ebadminton/360degultitr.html

that's the link for the Genji racquet I was talking about. Only $89 USD too, interesting. My friend said he paid $300 USD for that racquet and his father sold it last year for even more money. I don't know, the story seemed a little far-fetch, that's why I am asking the forum to check on the validity on the existence of such racquet.

360 titanium mesh . quite a bit different than full titanium.

there was a thread on metalwork and titanium a while back. try search for it. the problem with ti is that it is very hard to form into shape.

Originally posted by coops241180
apparently the carlton aerogear 2000tfx is supposed to be one piece titanium

nope. at least that's what the marketing want to tell you. but it is a graphite racket.

AFAIK, a completely completely titanium badminton racket hasn't exist yet. let me go learn how to tig weld and cold form titanium, may be i will go make one. cooler, are you interested?

I've heard of one peice rackets... lik... head/shaft/handle one peice... but I dont know if it's all Ti-Mesh

that's odd a friend of mine is doing his doctorate in Material Sciences - i asked him about the techniques that may be used to make badminton racquets. apparently he seems to think that graphite racquets are just as difficult to make as ti. the main problem with ti is the purity - conversley graphite racquets are cheap because the purity is already there and it is in good supply - but it is malleable at a higher temperature. ti mesh is used because ti is v.v.v.v. expensive still

Carlton 2000Tfx is not all titanium racket! Neither is it Single piece! The old carlton powerflows were single piece but not the TFX.

when i say single piece i just mean the head and the shaft - clearly the handle is a separate part to the rest of the racquet.

take a look at this also

http://www.monkhouse.com/FRMonkhouse/Badminton_Sale.html

Originally posted by kwun


360 titanium mesh . quite a bit different than full titanium.

there was a thread on metalwork and titanium a while back. try search for it. the problem with ti is that it is very hard to form into shape.

Yes Kwun I was referring to an all Ti-mesh racquet rather than fully Ti only. Talked to my friend more last night and this is the info I got:

The racquet frame is all silver except for orange spot at the 12 o'clock position. The entire racquet is one piece from the head, shaft, and the cone. It is a Yonex racquet he says but can't remember the model type. Not sure if anyone knows the racquet with this description. The racquet is also at least 11 years old since that's how long ago he used it .

Originally posted by kwun


nope. at least that's what the marketing want to tell you. but it is a graphite racket.

AFAIK, a completely completely titanium badminton racket hasn't exist yet. let me go learn how to tig weld and cold form titanium, may be i will go make one. cooler, are you interested?

Wow, the ultimate badminton fanatic project: MAKE YOUR OWN RACQUET! Go for it kwun!

I'm not a materials expert but I remember from somewhere that Titanium is rather brittle. Because it's stiff yet light, it can't absorb shock, and breaks pretty easily without support. So an all titanium racquet seems like huge DISadvantage due to the huge vibrations.... you'd feel like you're holding a tuning fork after every smash or clear! And It'll break after a week or so. And you'll be too broke from having to buy it to get a new one.

I'd say they should Keep it as a mesh.

Nevermind the brittle part... I think titanium inheritenly has strunger fatigue/stress ratio than steel... BUT... the reason all titanium badminton rcaquets CANT be made without it being brittle is due to a unique feature of titanium.

Most metals become more brittle as it gets cold, and more flexible when it's hot. You can bent most metals by heating it, but heating titanium before bending it will cause it to crack. The other option is cast-molding, which doesn't work either because the crystalline structure of Ti is unstable after reheating, which again, makes the metal brittle.

Also, Ti absorn oxygen and nitrogen (air) at high temperatures, resulting in "impurities". Most metals do this, which is why they want to build spaceships in space (stronger) but Titanium is especially bad for this. Maybe by the time we have factories on the moon we'll see All Ti racquets. But then again, that doesn't address the vibration issue either. Ti vibrates more than the steel tuning forks are made of.

And of course, the only time Ti isn't brittle nor vibrates is when it's in a mesh surrounder by other materials (that can take stress off it and absorb the vibrations.)

wow bigredlemon, thanks for that lesson in Ti. :D Not only is this site good for badminton knowledge, you learn about precious metals among other things as well. :)

Originally posted by bigredlemon
And of course, the only time Ti isn't brittle nor vibrates is when it's in a mesh surrounder by other materials (that can take stress off it and absorb the vibrations.)

so basically they cant make the whold racket out of Ti

But I dont think Ti is the strongest metal there is out there (I jus kno it's hella expensive)

Y dont they make the mesh outta other materials?:confused:

Yep jwu :) not that we need more reasons to spend time here :o

JChen99: they do.

Black Knight has a whole line of Beryllium mesh racquets. Not as much hype with the other materials because no one has heard of them. Everyone has heard of titanium, and think its really cool. Hence Ti covered computers, Ti covered drives, etc. etc. I have no idea which mesh is actually better though.

My 2 cents.

Originally posted by bigredlemon
Yep jwu :) not that we need more reasons to spend time here :o

JChen99: they do.

Black Knight has a whole line of Beryllium mesh racquets. Not as much hype with the other materials because no one has heard of them. Everyone has heard of titanium, and think its really cool. Hence Ti covered computers, Ti covered drives, etc. etc. I have no idea which mesh is actually better though.

My 2 cents.

well... prolly no one knows except for the expert chemists and some mad scientist! :p

my guess is that the denser the material the stronger it is??

Lead and gold are really dense, however I can't see them being strong in any definition of the word. Titanium isn't as dense as either, however in some definitions is stronger than both.

Originally posted by JChen99


well... prolly no one knows except for the expert chemists and some mad scientist! :p

my guess is that the denser the material the stronger it is??

the strongest metal is Platinum. but it's fairly heavy - I think the R&D guys at badminton firms will have done their homework. figureing out which material is affordable, light and strong.

N

hmmm, platinum-mesh racquet....that would one pricey racquet to get. :D u can get engaged with something like that, platinum-mesh w/ diamond studs at the 3 and 9 o'clock position. :D

Originally posted by bigredlemon

Black Knight has a whole line of Beryllium mesh racquets. Not as much hype with the other materials because no one has heard of them.
My 2 cents.


I think Victor has some model with "Beryllium", too. But kinda expensive in north america market. (USD $120 +)

Originally posted by LazyBuddy



I think Victor has some model with "Beryllium", too. But kinda expensive in north america market. (USD $120 +)

Yes victor does, it is in the German line. The model name is exactly that, berylium.

BTW, what kinda material is "berylium"?

Can someone give me a little bit hint on this?

Originally posted by LazyBuddy
BTW, what kinda material is "berylium"?

Can someone give me a little bit hint on this?

http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele004.html

Just some brief description of the element. :D I'm sure others in the field can provide better response.

Berylium is the fourth lightest element in the universe. It is a metal and can form alloy/composite with other material.

Graphite is a high modulus material but is very brittle. Other elements, such as boron, Titanium, and berylium, are added to strengthen the graphite matrix.

Ben

If there's enough interest, maybe i'll post up a pic of my racquet with the Ti mesh exposed.

Originally posted by bigredlemon
If there's enough interest, maybe i'll post up a pic of my racquet with the Ti mesh exposed.

Looking forward to see ur racket.

Originally posted by LazyBuddy


Looking forward to see ur racket.

I just took some pix with my cam... even in macro mode, everything is either too blurry (cuz i'm too close) or too small (cuz im too far). Then the battery died :(

recharge the battery and see if the camera has one of those "close up" function. :D

Originally posted by jwu
recharge the battery and see if the camera has one of those "close up" function. :D

yea... all the pics were taken in macro mode already. And I ran out of LiON batteris (40$ each!!!) So i've been using normal alkaline AA batteries... the damn thing uses up a 4 pack in only 8 shots!

i need a buy myself some recharables

GO NOW! Get those batteries and post the pics already! ;)

Originally posted by Stalker
GO NOW! Get those batteries and post the pics already! ;)

Sure, just send me 60$ for recharagble batteries :D :p


Actually, I just bought three more batties... that should be good for 6 more pix :o

Was bored at work so thought I would post this article (1997) I found on Titanium.

ABOUT TITANIUM

Mechanical Properties Comparison
Material Tensile Strength (lb/in^2) Density (wt) (lb/in^3) Stiffness (lb/in^2) Stiffness/Weight (in)
Aluminium 48,000 .09548 10,100,000 1.057
Titanium 130,000 .16257 27,000,000 1.660
Kevlar 203,052 .052745 11,020,000 2.089
Graphite 217,000 .057803 26,251,830 4.541
H.M. Graphite 638,166 .06647 34,800,000 5.235
Source: Mark's Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers and Composite Materials Handbook


Titanium is the ninth most abundant element in the earth’s surface and is the fourth most used metal in industrial applications behind aluminum, iron and magnesium. It is the strongest and lightest metal. It has very good torsional stiffness and like most metals, is isotropic, meaning it is equally strong in all directions. Graphite on the other hand is anisotropic. Its strength and stiffness is more oriented in the direction of the fibers and not, for example, at right angles to them. However, titanium is about two and one half times heavier and three times less stiff than high modulus graphite (see chart above). As the stiffness/weight column shows, it theoretically takes 3.15 times (5.235/1.66) the titanium to equal graphite’s stiffness.

The question then arises, how did these racquets get so light? Product manager Mueller explains that it is how titanium and graphite are combined that makes the difference. Though its specific properties don’t equal graphite in weight and stiffness, their use together allows their properties to complement each other — sort of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts argument. In a graphite racquet, separate layers of graphite fibers must be oriented in different directions to gain strength. But by adding isotropic titanium fibers to a single layer of unidirectional graphite, less right-angle graphite has to be added. It then becomes a complicated mathematical/mechanical balancing act between titanium’s isotropic strength benefits and torsional stability, but heftier weight, and the weight savings of eliminating some of the high modulus graphite.

Furthermore, the titanium is only used in the throat and shoulder area (graphically depicted by a silver cosmetic) where there are increased torsional and bending stresses. It is also used in small percentages (you can estimate the percentage from the photo below.) Does it work? In Mueller’s words, “The answer is the racquet itself, because it is lighter and stiffer than other racquets. The racquet proves what we are saying.”


Graphite Titanium Matrix

The golf industry is already buzzing about titanium. For consumers, the top of mind awareness and mystique have already been created. Head hopes to leverage that into tennis. Titanium is used differently in golf and tennis, however. In golf heads, metals are used as the predominant structural element. Titanium, rather than graphite, is used here for three main reasons. It is much more abrasion and impact resistant than graphite. It is more resilient upon impact, thus adding to ball velocity. And its isotropic properties are ideal for bearing the golf ball’s impact loads. Arranging enough light weight graphite fibers in the directions necessary to resist golf ball impact might make the graphite head almost as heavy as the titanium head, without the other advantages of titanium. So sometimes light weight can be heavy (golf) and sometimes heavy can be light weight (tennis).

For these reasons, titanium is used as a predominant material in golf but plays more of a supporting role in tennis. But whether Titanium is responsible for the racquets being so light is not so much the point as that they are. But titanium’s role is important if it is defining a category seeking revolutionary status.