Point System Affecting Sportsmanship?

[chrisnchips]

Do you think that the different point scoring systems attract different kind of badminton players? (in means of attitude and sportsmanship?)

[Shifty]

Why do you say that?

[chrisnchips]

Why do you say that?

I'm wondering if the strategies to score points has an affect on how the game is played in the perspectives of different players. Yes, there are many factors and points of view. And also, it could be totally irrelevant to how strategies vary with differing point systems. (and equipment, etc.)

I'm only an amateur player... so i'm referring to how people approach the game in general rather than too technically. (ie. people who like attacking play rather than defensive and vice versa)
^applying this to attitudes and the results in sportsmanship

...still unclear in some ways i kno...
ummmm,
take the 21 pt system... a faster game when it comes down to every service scoring a point VS 15 pt system... only can score points on your own serve. Pace is very different to me.

[Shifty]

Yeah, definitely the game itself has changed, although it has been changing quite a bit to be honest. It's much faster. Modern singles is very similar to doubles at high levels in terms of speed of shot. However, I think that had been the trend before the NSS. Near the end of the OSS, you saw many players like Lin Dan flourish with fast and aggressive play. What the OSS did was have a buffer on this. Basically those that played slow and rallied like in the 90s/80s could keep up with the fast aggressive new players due to the OSS being long and the games lasting much longer. Now, with the NSS, those that don't attack are at a big disadvantage, something the OSS did well to nullify. In the NSS, you have to attack because stamina is less of a factor now.

Interestingly however, here in New Zealand, many players still stick to the old rallying game in the NSS. Sure, we've got big hitters and aggressive players. But we've never really experienced someone who was a modern player. Until the no.12 in Thailand (he took a 3 year break) turned up in our small rural province to study. He was, and still is incredibly rusty, heaps of mistakes. But the sheer speed he played at was amazing. It really showed us how modern, international badminton should be played. Super super fast. It's just the trend of badminton, especially in singles, to speed up the game. The NSS allows and encourages this because you don't have to worry about stamina.

/random mumbling

[SibugiChai]

the changes are more obvious in social games... where STAMINA is a problem...

[phaarix]

Until the no.12 in Thailand (he took a 3 year break) turned up in our small rural province to study.

Who is that?

I'm interested in what you're saying. Do you think the same applies to our top players? That they just haven't really adapted yet? I haven't seen a lot of high class badminton, but I know there's a huge gap between the sort of competition we get around here and the best North Island players... and then again to those overseas.

It's never the same watching videos as it is in real life. What I thought looked quick and efficient at local tournaments suddenly looked rather slow and clumsy when I caught a few matches on video and put it side by side "real" matches :cool:. But still it seems quick when you're actually there :confused:. So perhaps if I saw some international players in the flesh I'd really notice the difference in pace.

I think it would have to be taken down to 11 point games before I personally would be able to forget about stamina... I avoid attacking anyway because my smash is my weakest shot! So I can never beat anyone who's consistent with their shots as I rely on my opponents errors :). I think at our level (where I live) at least, the change in scoring system definitely hasn't had an impact at all...

[Shifty]

His name is Kriengsak Suttiprawat. But we just call him Tee for short :D

I think so. I haven't seen any of the top aucklanders, but I know for sure anyone below waikato and doesn't play div 2+ would find him incredibly fast. The player who's known for his speed in our province can't keep up with him. So yeah, I personally think there's a big big gap. And it's all physical I think. Those asian players (Tee) are just so much more explosive and powerful. His footwork general consists of split step, small adjustment step, and then a single leap into whatever corner he's going to. Really athletic and dynamic. That's the reason I think our top players can't keep up. Those internationals are so much faster than ours.

Indeed. Even watching it on TV, it looks much easier and slower than it is. They seem so graceful and elegant (mark of good footwork). It's because distance reduces the apparent speed. When you're on the sidelines, I can tell you, it's incredible watching top players move.

Yeah, even when people say stamina isn't as important in 21 points, I'm always out of breath :p Well, I think you don't have to smash to win points. You can always chain your smashes up to push your opponent around. Basically, don't look at smashes as a winning shot. Instead, I like to think of smashes as a shot which has a high chance of giving you the upper hand. So when he returns the smash, you should be ready to take the opportunity from that and pressure him to make a bad shot through your next play (push, tight drop) etc.

[phaarix]

His name is Kriengsak Suttiprawat. But we just call him Tee for short :D

I think so. I haven't seen any of the top aucklanders, but I know for sure anyone below waikato and doesn't play div 2+ would find him incredibly fast. The player who's known for his speed in our province can't keep up with him. So yeah, I personally think there's a big big gap. And it's all physical I think. Those asian players (Tee) are just so much more explosive and powerful. His footwork general consists of split step, small adjustment step, and then a single leap into whatever corner he's going to. Really athletic and dynamic. That's the reason I think our top players can't keep up. Those internationals are so much faster than ours.

Indeed. Even watching it on TV, it looks much easier and slower than it is. They seem so graceful and elegant (mark of good footwork). It's because distance reduces the apparent speed. When you're on the sidelines, I can tell you, it's incredible watching top players move.

Yeah, even when people say stamina isn't as important in 21 points, I'm always out of breath :p Well, I think you don't have to smash to win points. You can always chain your smashes up to push your opponent around. Basically, don't look at smashes as a winning shot. Instead, I like to think of smashes as a shot which has a high chance of giving you the upper hand. So when he returns the smash, you should be ready to take the opportunity from that and pressure him to make a bad shot through your next play (push, tight drop) etc.

I think you're pretty lucky to have someone like that around :)! I always found when I went away to tournaments, especially South Island Juniors (which I'm too old for now :() we all made huge improvements just over the course of a week! I think just from being surrounded by all these great players (particularly James Eunson!). This guy from Malaysia once came to Nelson, and when he watched our junior reps training session he told us "many of these players are missing the basics" :D.

I think I just need confidence to bring smashes into my game. They've been fine in the past, but I think I've gone wrong somewhere and I'm just really inconsistent with them now. It's not something I can use to confidently kill a loose shuttle anymore :(. Just need practice I guess. And someone to point out where I've gone wrong! If only the Malaysian guy was still here... although I think I recall him telling me I just don't put in enough effort :rolleyes:.

[Shifty]

Yeah, shame he's leaving next year I think... And fully agree, big tournaments help a lot. Not to mention the fact they're fun and a general waste of time which you can blame bad results for :D Ah....my last big tournament will be the U19s in Christchurch in a few weeks time :) After which I think I will hang up my competition boots and just play for fun. It's always good to have people overseas come and enhance our badminton :)

Well, I think I can relate. I remember just a few weeks back. After getting my arse handed to me particularly shamefully (especially cos I played like a sack), I completely forgot how to high serve. And I actually mean it. Every high serve I did from the left side would be sliced and be high, short and right out the side of the court. Maybe 4/5 serves would go out. High serving on the right hand side was slightly better with 3/5 going out. Which was pretty weird considering I'd played and trained for 5 years. The more I served out, the less confident I got and the more frustrated I became, which meant I was stuck I a loop. Eventually I gave up high serving and started short serving, because I feared high serves.

I finally got my serve sorted a week or so ago. All I did was take a few good shuttles, 2 hours when only a few people turned up to training, and served for that 2 hours. I think it's all about confidence. If you're confident your smashes will be good, they will be. Even if they're nothing crazy, you will at least play them well. Being relaxed and having patience is also really key to pretty much any stroke in badminton. I'm sure you'll get it soon :) Don't just keep working on it over and over though. Take some time off, practice your netshots. Come back after a week or so, and I'm sure it'll be all good ^.^

[chrisnchips]

this match sorta relates to what i mean, related to this topic, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pwbWhz7UAo

also take note of cultural difference? or maybe just the sportsmanship for badminton in particular.

not sure if the commentators are implying that confronting each other at the net is "un-gentlemanly"???

[Shifty]

No offense, but Andrew Smith just needs to grow up. I remember he was like that against Lin Dan in 06 Thomas Cup. Nothing new to be honest. He think's he's so awesome, easy to tell by the way he just walks around and yells.

Although to be honest, that air horn honestly must be annoying. I only recently played a national tournament where those air horns were just blasting like crazy. If they hadn't been girls, and I hadn't been representing the school, I would've had some choice words with them followed by a curb stomp on a pavement outside. It really unnecessary and distracting for the players. If you can't yell that loud, don't be a prick and use air horns. Oh....and Waikato cow bells :(

[phaarix]

Yeah, shame he's leaving next year I think..........

Heh, better make the most of it then (the last tournament)! I get so jealous when some of my friends are still allowed to play junior tournaments... It might be better up there, but there's just not that many senior tournament around here unless you're willing to travel quite far. So yeah, I'm kind of like that. I play competitively for fun :p. I rarely win now in Opens, but no big deal.

I remember one of our best players having trouble with his high serve. Seemed really weird to me because you'd think it would be one of the more simple shots... but I guess anything can happen! I think I might do what you did if I get the chance. Just get someone to feed me some shuttles while I practice my smash for awhile and not worry about how bad it is at first ;).

Also I couldn't watch the video because my internet is playing up, but I think I've got an idea of it and I agree with Shifty, Andrew Smith has always been a pain... He's embarrassing to England in my opinion >_>.

I don't really think sportsmanship has changed much. Maybe more fist pumping sort of thing perhaps (as far as attitude goes)? But I haven't really noticed.

[chrisnchips]

LOL :D:D:D

I guess you can be a pro and let some anger out... but against someone in control of their composure... no chance

[phaarix]

Andrew Smith just about always seems angry and agitated! Guess that's just what he's like... but gets on my nerves.

[Shifty]

I don't care if he's angry or what. It's just the way he thinks he's so good. And then he'll meet a player who just outclasses him. Kinda reminds me of CharlesDarwin or GoGa from CoH...