2009 Japan Open: Wednesday September 23 (Round 1) [Archive] - Page 2

lcleing

09-23-2009, 05:43 AM

Yes mister. Sorry for harassing you.:)

FYI, my only concern is why do you never support INA players.
And BANG!, suddenly you came up with those racial, political talk.
Not my fault ya? :p

Very good. Generalization. :rolleyes:
And after all that thingies, why are you still in Indonesia? Not move to your old home sweet home? ;) There are tons of flights to CHN available everyday...

(No more politic talk 'ere. Sorry for starting it, after all :p)

So far so good for INA team today. :)Political and racial talk? I am talking about facts here and please do not try to cover or deny those ugly business that your people done by packaging your arguments under the word "political" and "racial". Have those things not happened in the past, I won't even have a chance to write a "political" and "racial" post here. If you can't stand people criticizing you, make sure your people don't do it, that's all.

By the way, who gives you the right to determine who should stay in Indonesia and who shouldn't? Are you a member of in the immigration office? Or are you a great figure in Indonesia who got a final say on who can be Indonesian and who cannot? Seriously, you complained other's post being racial and political, while your own post is full of discrimination against the Chinese descendant. Talking about a hypocrite here.

Jagdpanther

09-23-2009, 06:00 AM

Political and racial talk? I am talking about facts here and please do not try to cover or deny those ugly business that your people done by packaging your arguments under the word "political" and "racial". Have those things not happened in the past, I won't even have a chance to write a "political" and "racial" post here. If you can't stand people criticizing you, make sure your people don't do it, that's all.

And FYI, if you search for a thread named "Malaysia Boleh Spirits", you'll find various facts there. Good and bad facts. And several 'political' and 'racial' talks too. And do you know how the thread ended, mister?
Getting hotter and hotter, and then? Locked by mods. And there were cases of banned member because of it, too.
I don't want my name to be included in list of banned members. And that's why I'll refrain from replying all posts about this matter from now on. ;)

By the way, who gives you the right to determine who should stay in Indonesia and who shouldn't? Are you a member of in the immigration office? Or are you a great figure in Indonesia who got a final say on who can be Indonesian and who cannot?

Answers for all questions above: None/No, I'm not.
All I did was asking him/her: Why...? It's not like I told him/her to...? :confused:

Seriously, you complained other's post being racial and political, while your own post is full of discrimination against the Chinese descendant. Talking about a hypocrite here.
And seriously, your post mentioned that "I heard of the native blablabla...."
Your post sounds like you're trying to generalize the case. That all native INA people are some kind of monster.

*And FYI, some of my relatives were victims too.*

suetyan

09-23-2009, 06:07 AM

Why an Indonesian has to support Indonesia? Does this mean every Indonesian has to support Indonesia? Why can't some are supporting China? I am a Malaysian, but I never support Malaysia. I support China all the time. Sometimes, I support, Japan and Korea as well, but never be Malaysia. So, do I have to move to China in order to become a purely truely chinese fan? BC is a place for us to discuss and share everything about badminton news in every country but not for discussing why one is not supporting his/her own country. If you ask me why I will never support Malaysia, I will keep the answer P&C. I know there are tons of people in BC are anti-chinese. Actually, it is quite difficult to survive in BC as chinese fans in BC is limited. When anti-chinese fans are shooting their 'AK47', no way for chinese fans to hide. I have been in this forum for quite a long time, I learnt as a chinese supporter, I must know how to tolerate, and to endure myself. But I am glad that I've found some good friends like Ajaib, tommy_bun, and volcom who are not in the 'AK47' team. So, Ajaib, learnt from me, try to tolerate. Let us chinese fans not to haggle over every ounce.

jasonmarc

09-23-2009, 06:14 AM

Relaxlah,....once can support whoever he/she likes....for what so ever the reason.....its their choice! Please respect that.....and be Peace !

suetyan

09-23-2009, 06:21 AM

Relaxlah,....once can support whoever he/she likes....for what so ever the reason.....its their choice! Please respect that.....and be Peace !
yup, as long as we do not cross over others' border, it's okay. We have to know this forum is called Badminton Central Discussion Forum where supporters from everywhere can come here. This forum is not called 'China Supporters Badminton forum', Indonesia Supporters Badminton forum', or Japan Supporters Badminton forum'. :D

swwet_love

09-23-2009, 06:24 AM

how is NTM of VN going guys???

george@chongwei

09-23-2009, 06:26 AM

very strong. he crushed his opponent into pieces just now:p
look at this>> Tien Minh NGUYEN [8] (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/player.aspx?id=1C9E5ACF-E91E-42E8-8896-CBB99FA03FBF&player=9)http://static.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/VIE.gif[VIE] (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/matches.aspx?id=1C9E5ACF-E91E-42E8-8896-CBB99FA03FBF&c=VIE)-http://static.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/DEN.gif[DEN] (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/matches.aspx?id=1C9E5ACF-E91E-42E8-8896-CBB99FA03FBF&c=DEN)Chrstian LIND THOMSEN (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/player.aspx?id=1C9E5ACF-E91E-42E8-8896-CBB99FA03FBF&player=27)21-13 21-9

eaglehelang

09-23-2009, 06:32 AM

..When anti-chinese fans are shooting their 'AK47', no way for chinese fans to hide. I have been in this forum for quite a long time, I learnt as a chinese supporter, I must know how to tolerate, and to endure myself. But I am glad that I've found some good friends like Ajaib, tommy_bun, and volcom who are not in the 'AK47' team. So, Ajaib, learnt from me, try to tolerate. Let us chinese fans not to haggle over every ounce.

One of the reason "anti chinese" fans shoot2 is cos CHina fans also shoot2, often times with much bigger missiles. ;)
So, when 1 party shoot2, next time the other party also shoot2. The thing is when some of us shoot back, China fans get soooooooo angry (not you lah, other people, hehe). They shoot in the same way can, other people shoot little bit, cannot tolerate.

Ok, now I suppose all the shooting finish already, can go back to being friends. :D:p:p

Jagdpanther

09-23-2009, 06:33 AM

Relaxlah,....once can support whoever he/she likes....for what so ever the reason.....its their choice! Please respect that.....and be Peace !
Truly agree. Well, as long as s/he doesn't go too arrogant 'bout his/her fav players/country and look down toward other players/country, everything's cool... ;)

Unfortunately, sometimes this is very hard to do, even for me. :p

One of the reason "anti chinese" fans shoot2 is cos CHina fans also shoot2, often times with much bigger missiles. ;)
So, when 1 party shoot2, next time the other party also shoot2. The thing is when some of us shoot back, China fans get soooooooo angry (not you lah, other people, hehe). They shoot in the same way can, other people shoot little bit, cannot tolerate.

Ok, now I suppose all the shooting finish already, can go back to being friends. :D:p:p
I like you, kak eagle. :)

george@chongwei

09-23-2009, 06:37 AM

Truly agree. Well, as long as s/he doesn't go too arrogant 'bout his/her fav players/country and look down toward other players/country, everything's cool... ;)

I like you, kak eagle. :)
agree with ya, Jagd.. and err, u like eaglehelang? ahem:D:p

nunu27

09-23-2009, 06:49 AM

agree with ya, Jagd.. and err, u like eaglehelang? ahem:D:p

hey George, i also like him and Jagd...:D (i mean their statements)...:p

suetyan

09-23-2009, 06:54 AM

One of the reason "anti chinese" fans shoot2 is cos CHina fans also shoot2, often times with much bigger missiles. ;)
So, when 1 party shoot2, next time the other party also shoot2. The thing is when some of us shoot back, China fans get soooooooo angry (not you lah, other people, hehe). They shoot in the same way can, other people shoot little bit, cannot tolerate.

Ok, now I suppose all the shooting finish already, can go back to being friends. :D:p:p
I know who. Haha... :p But I seldom will shoot in BC one. :p Okay, let's get back to the thread. Peace.................. :)

Jagdpanther

09-23-2009, 06:57 AM

hey George, i also like him and Jagd...:D (i mean their statements)...:p
Wah, I thought kak eagle is female? :confused:

badadum

09-23-2009, 07:03 AM

Wah, I thought kak eagle is female? :confused:

she is :D.

By the way, who gives you the right to determine who should stay in Indonesia and who shouldn't? Are you a member of in the immigration office? Or are you a great figure in Indonesia who got a final say on who can be Indonesian and who cannot?

Answers for all questions above: None/No, I'm not.
All I did was asking him/her: Why...? It's not like I told him/her to...? :confused:

LOL, pretty good smack. See what happened when you assumed, mr. pom? :p

eaglehelang

09-23-2009, 07:24 AM

agree with ya, Jagd.. and err, u like eaglehelang? ahem:D:p
Ceh, you naughty2 for what?

Wah, I thought kak eagle is female? :confused:
Yup, george read too much into your statement.
But in today's 'shootings' you all already shoot & clean up before I arrived. All I had to do was 'copy & paste standard reply 10', easy job.:D

lcleing

09-23-2009, 07:29 AM

she is :D.

LOL, pretty good smack. See what happened when you assumed, mr. pom? :p

You obviously don't understand sarcasm. Look up the word in the dictionary.

whack_d_net

09-23-2009, 07:36 AM

LOL i thought all today matches for Round 1 already over,
But definetely it still hot in here :eek: :eek:
I knew some issues bout the aforementioned babblin,
Some of my relatives and friends were victims as well :(
But i guess this is not the right place to discuss those issues
For example:
Just like INA and MAS, we have lots of political problems
But TH*and LCW still befriended, rite? :p :p
Why can't we?
Everyone has their own right to express their opinions and support their own fave players
But please RESPECT other's as well
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Hmmm i guess all we really need is round 2 thread, ASAP! :D :D
....
Edit: Seems like @Jagdpanther already make one :cool:
Let's go to the crime scene. Hehehe :D :D

george@chongwei

09-23-2009, 07:40 AM

conclusion of the day for me today, adriyanti firdasari is HOT like hell(her gameplay and her look:)) today..at least for me..woohhooo:D

andalusia

09-23-2009, 08:04 AM

let us continue to day 2 thread ^^

Peace ^_^ V

badadum

09-23-2009, 08:23 AM

You obviously don't understand sarcasm. Look up the word in the dictionary.

pot meet kettle.

Why an Indonesian has to support Indonesia? Does this mean every Indonesian has to support Indonesia? Why can't some are supporting China? I am a Malaysian, but I never support Malaysia. I support China all the time. Sometimes, I support, Japan and Korea as well, but never be Malaysia. So, do I have to move to China in order to become a purely truely chinese fan? BC is a place for us to discuss and share everything about badminton news in every country but not for discussing why one is not supporting his/her own country.

At risk of dragging this thread the wrong way (heck, its already going there), gotta agree with this statement....unless one start ridicules/insult another player/countries. So far, glad to say have never seen it from the person in question. ;)

tommy_bun

09-23-2009, 10:41 AM

tommy_bun

09-23-2009, 10:49 AM

You two...
Whenever CHN players play, support them till dead.
When INA players play, dead silence.
And you call yourselves Indonesians.
Ah well. Guess some people like you exist. :rolleyes:
YUP...Jagdpanther...both me and AJAIB are China supporters

tommy_bun

09-23-2009, 10:50 AM

hey dude... not me who bought that political and racial ... it's lcleing...
i suggest you to read from the beginning ...
i just agree and add what he/ she said
Enough is enough...
:mad::mad::mad::mad:
if you want to stop then why you keep giving excuses.. !!!!!!!!

We better stop it here AJAIB....We have our own choice....

tommy_bun

09-23-2009, 11:07 AM

YUP...Jagdpanther...both me and AJAIB are China supporters

We're not on the same boat but we sail the same sea :p:D:p:D

tommy_bun

09-23-2009, 11:11 AM

Luckily..I always tell myself...not to pull myself into a debate or an argument....I love peace...:):p:D....
Thanx suetyan for your support to me and AJAIB

Btw,What is AK47 suetyan???

cooler

09-23-2009, 11:14 AM

Btw,What is AK47 suetyan???
a russian tommy bun:p but now favored by eastern terrorists as it is cheap and plentiful. hint: u should duck if u see 1

cooler

09-23-2009, 11:38 AM

Very good. Generalization. :rolleyes:
And after all that thingies, why are you still in Indonesia? Not move to your old home sweet home? ;) There are tons of flights to CHN available everyday...

(No more politic talk 'ere. Sorry for starting it, after all :p)

So far so good for INA team today. :)
it's call standing up to one's rights and belief. If they move out of INA, then u call them losers, right?

btw, if hendrawan family did what u said, INA badminton team would be alot weaker, say bye bye to one thomas cup (which hendrawen won the decider).

btw, what do u call your great countrymen and women who moved out of INA because of what you said?? ex( tangfu, tony g & wife, mia audina, rexy, ardy wiranata & wife, plus many many ex good INA players that found homes in south california, vancouver, toronto, england, etc???)

george@chongwei

09-23-2009, 12:03 PM

Btw,What is AK47 suetyan???
are u sure u don't know what is that???:confused::eek::eek:

2cents

09-23-2009, 12:14 PM

Good point ;););)
i didn't have good english to said here,, but you said the right thing...
crime to ethnic chinese in indonesia is not just from 1997-1999 but it happened since long time ago here,,, we ( chinese ethnic) are just 2nd class citizen..the government push us to change our name to non chinese name,, then prevent us for learning chinese language,, they closed chinese school,, prevent us to show chinese culture,etc
except for those super Rich Chinese ethnic were their environment was full of educated native indonesia and maybe all around them are same super rich chinese ethnic, they felt small discrimination,,, but for common chinese ethnic,,, it's really hard...
i still remember when my young native indonesian friends laughing at me and say bad thing about my eyes, my skin, my food,etc...., that's a bad memmory for me..some of my friend even get slap, kick... and get abused becoz they were Chinese ethnic...we live with pressure,,,,
but i found that being a Chinese is not my Fault,,, everyone never ask GOD to be born as Chinese ethnics, caucasian, arabians, javanese,, malays,, africa,,, etcs... it's GOD choice,,, and we cannot blame HIM
so,,, when i see Chinese athlete domination the world .. i'm so proud and i can say : "you see, being a chinese ethnic is not a fault,,, Chinese persons and Chnese athlete are superb,, and i will always support them,, loose or win"
i'm proud to be a Chinese ethnic and i'll support them...:cool::cool:

sorry for my bad english :)

It's a very touching story and personal expeirence. You should be proud of you, you should be proud of being Chinese now. I am proud of you.

2cents

09-23-2009, 12:21 PM

And after all that thingies, why are you still in Indonesia? Not move to your old home sweet home? ;) There are tons of flights to CHN available everyday...

it's the most fundamental human rights to choice a place to live. Without exchanging and learning from outside, Indonesia today would remain in stone age. :rolleyes:

badadum

09-23-2009, 12:48 PM

it's call standing up to one's rights and belief. If they move out of INA, then u call them losers, right?

btw, if hendrawan family did what u said, INA badminton team would be alot weaker, say bye bye to one thomas cup (which hendrawen won the decider).

btw, what do u call your great countrymen and women who moved out of INA because of what you said?? ex( tangfu, tony g & wife, mia audina, rexy, ardy wiranata & wife, plus many many ex good INA players that found homes in south california, vancouver, toronto, england, etc???)

You really don't think there'll be some bewildered Canadians when you root for your beloved china team when playing against a Canadian team? :cool:

Sure, stands up for your own belief, but don't be angry/surprised if there're those who disagree with them and express disbelief.

cooler

09-23-2009, 12:56 PM

You really don't think there'll be some bewildered Canadians when you root for your beloved china team when playing against a Canadian team? :cool:

Sure, stands up for your own belief, but don't be angry/surprised if there're those who disagree with them and express disbelief.

1. u still dunno cooler after my gizillion posts. In the blue moon chance that our canadian team get to meet the chinese team, i supported the canadian team and they needed every ounce of it lol. For instance when the chinese jr team came over for exhibition, our #1 national MD team trounced those jr (15-16 years old kids?) chinese MD. It was quite a rewarding moment for me:p

2. it's hard to be not angry to those who disagree with them when 'those others' start burning down your houses,business,and churches , wanted u out so they can steal your business and buildings, plus other atrocities i better not say.

volcom

09-23-2009, 01:07 PM

Seriously is there something wrong with supporting a team that is not your home country? It's a person's freedom just like Australians who support England, or whatever.
It's ridiculous to ridicule people who have their own opinions and interests. You don't have to be a bunch of sheep tbh.

badadum

09-23-2009, 01:19 PM

1. u still dunno cooler after my gizillion posts. In the blue moon chance that our canadian team get to meet the chinese team, i supported the canadian team and they needed every ounce of it lol. For instance when the chinese jr team came over for exhibition, our #1 national MD team trounced those jr (15-16 years old kids?) chinese MD. It was quite a rewarding moment for me:p

2. it's hard to be not angry to those who disagree with them when 'those others' start burning down your houses,business,and churches , wanted u out so they can steal your business and buildings, plus other atrocities i better not say.

1) LOL, replaced cooler with an unamed chinese canadian supporter of china's team then. You get my point.

2) Again, that's a generalization amplified by the mayhem of 98 and by other element who seek someone to blame for their mishaps. "Others" from that group also help patrol your neighbourhood and churches so the looters can't get in. Come and help you to safety before the looters get there, etc. Of course "small" things like these got obscured by the extreme negativity.

Nationalism is always a hot subject and a problem faced by immigrants (especially 1st generations). The question will always be the same, if you call yourself a citizen of <name a country>, where should your loyalty lies? Some will feel strongly on one extreme or the other.

cooler

09-23-2009, 01:55 PM

1) LOL, replaced cooler with an unamed chinese canadian supporter of china's team then. You get my point.

2) Again, that's a generalization amplified by the mayhem of 98 and by other element who seek someone to blame for their mishaps. "Others" from that group also help patrol your neighbourhood and churches so the looters can't get in. Come and help you to safety before the looters get there, etc. Of course "small" things like these got obscured by the extreme negativity.

Nationalism is always a hot subject and a problem faced by immigrants (especially 1st generations). The question will always be the same, if you call yourself a citizen of <name a country>, where should your loyalty lies? Some will feel strongly on one extreme or the other.u can generalize all u want about me, i dun care. Since u dunno much about me, lets keep it that way.

do u still believe LD won't make it to 2012 OG??? lol

2cents

09-23-2009, 02:28 PM

When I was watching the US Open (tennis) years ago, cheering for Michael Chang against Englishman Henman. The overwhelming American spectators in the stadium were cheering for the English instead of their own countryman Michael Chang. By the way, Chang was a lot more famous than Henman, and there were a lot people in the American claimed themselves as Chang’s fans.

Even the majority of a country don’t have to support its countryman, while accusing one individual who supports the hero he likes just outside his country?

On the other hand, Chang, as a Chinese descendant with American citizenship got all stadium support in Japan. Why? I guess the reason is simple. Japanese find out Chang sharing the same look and build as themselves. It’s the same reason Americans support Henman instead of Chang. Race or ethnic groups are more important than nationality.

badadum

09-23-2009, 02:30 PM

u can generalize all u want about me, i dun care. Since u dunno much about me, lets keep it that way.

do u still believe LD won't make it to 2012 OG??? lol

Unless there's significant improvement in china's MS squad, LYB might have no choice but pray that LD will still be playing :p

badadum

09-23-2009, 02:34 PM

cooler

09-23-2009, 02:35 PM

Unless there's significant improvement in china's MS squad, LYB might have no choice but pray that LD will still be playing :pi thot u said there is no chance for LD to play in 2012 OG, he's too old, no chinese MS can play that long, etc etc etc:confused:

ctjcad

09-23-2009, 02:40 PM

..what a fiery ending to this thread, i must say. Surely we haven't seen this kind of hotly contested debate in some time...:p..

Btw, if someone was born in INA, but is now living in the USA but is cheering for CHN, what does that make him/her??..:confused:

...
But I am glad that I've found some good friends like Ajaib, tommy_bun, and volcom who are not in the 'AK47' team.
...
..errr, i guess i'm not part of your good friends, eh??..:(

badadum

09-23-2009, 02:43 PM

i thot u said there is no chance for LD to play in 2012 OG, he's too old, no chinese MS can play that long, etc etc etc:confused:

Since when what I said and what LYB wants is the same thing?:p

badadum

09-23-2009, 02:46 PM

..what a fiery ending to this thread, i must say. Surely we haven't seen this kind of hotly contested debate in some time...:p..

Btw, if someone was born in INA, but is now living in the USA but is cheering for CHN, what does that make him/her??..:confused:

Well if its for badminton, according to the "official guideline on how a fan should behave" book, he should be praise by the Chinese, maybe ridicules by the Indonesians and the Americans would simply ask "What's badminton?" :p

2cents

09-23-2009, 02:55 PM

If that theorem hold, how do you explain the massive popularity and support for Tiger Woods? He's the furthest thing from a "white" American (having African American Dad & Asian Mom).

good question, but a question without deep thinking.

First of all, in the US, black population is much much higher than Chinese. There is even a black president. The base population are different. There are at least 20% fans for Tiger Woods by default, but less than 1% for Michael Chang.

second, very few, almost none think of Tiger Woods as a half Asian even though he insisted himself. The same applies to the president, no one claimed American got a half-white as their president.

3rd, Tiger Woods should be popular as the 1st black golf super star; this is the American tradition which proves something. Support Black people is something political correct for stereotype people, and even a fashion for young generations.

4th, there are more unexpected surprises. Look at Arthur Ashe, he's popular too, the most important popularity come from the shock that people first realize that even black people can play tennis or golf.

5th, most white people support Tiger Woods superficially. They don’t want to be seen as discriminative or political incorrect, But they are not diehard fans. Michael Chang seemed to have high popularity too, but when come to the real fight, you cannot depend on them. You can still sense a big anti-black sentiment against those black super stars. Look at Michael Jackson, look at Ashe, so many personal attacks and rumors on those popular stars.

badadum

09-23-2009, 03:15 PM

good question, but a question without deep thinking.

First of all, in the US, black population is much much higher than Chinese. There is even a black president. The base population are different. There are at least 20% fans for Tiger Woods by default, but less than 1% for Michael Chang.

second, very few, almost none think of Tiger Woods as a half Asian even though he insisted himself. The same applies to the president, no one claimed American got a half-white as their president.

3rd, Tiger Woods should be popular as the 1st black golf super star; this is the American tradition which proves something. Support Black people is something political correct for stereotype people, and even a fashion for young generations.

4th, there are more unexpected surprises. Look at Arthur Ashe, he's popular too, the most important popularity come from the shock that people first realize that even black people can play tennis or golf.

5th, most white people support Tiger Woods superficially. They don’t want to be seen as discriminative or political incorrect, But they are not diehard fans. Michael Chang seemed to have high popularity too, but when come to the real fight, you cannot depend on them. You can still sense a big anti-black sentiment against those black super stars. Look at Michael Jackson, look at Ashe, so many personal attacks and rumors on those popular stars.

Then what you have to say about Michelle Kwan? She's not the first asian to "rule" the ice (Kristi Yamaguchi done that) yet at the height of her popularity, she is, at the very least, as popular (and supported) as Lipinski (and later on, definitely much more than Hughes) and especially more than the Russian ladies (Butyrskaya and Slutskaya).

Heck, lets throw Yamaguchi in the equation too while we're at it. She's in constant competition with fellow "white" Americans (including Kerrigan and Harding) and "white" Europeans (Witt), yet she's well supported as well.

Also, remember all the hoopla around Michelle Wie? At one point, she's the most popular player in the LPGA (and probably 2nd in the golfing world behind Tiger), without even the record to back it up.

2cents

09-23-2009, 03:44 PM

Then what you have to say about Michelle Kwan? She's not the first asian to "rule" the ice (Kristi Yamaguchi done that) yet at the height of her popularity, she is, at the very least, as popular (and supported) as Lipinski (and later on, definitely much more than Hughes) and especially more than the Russian ladies (Butyrskaya and Slutskaya).

Heck, lets throw Yamaguchi in the equation too while we're at it. She's in constant competition with fellow "white" Americans (including Kerrigan and Harding) and "white" Europeans (Witt), yet she's well supported as well.

Also, remember all the hoopla around Michelle Wie? At one point, she's the most popular player in the LPGA (and probably 2nd in the golfing world behind Tiger), without even the record to back it up.

ladies are different. Oriental girls are always hot among Caucasian men. Sometimes, sexuality is above and beyond the race. Even Bao CL and Lee YD are popular among Indonesia girls.

huangkwokhau

09-23-2009, 05:42 PM

The Japanese MD are being coahced by Reoni Mainaky, older brother of Rexy..so it was uneasy as Rexy on the other side and Reony on Japanese side...remember this MD is from UNISYS club as recently Alvent alos joined the clkub as well for one year...

KKK did not play his best as usual so TBH got affected too....also the japanese's defense is quite good and they had some lucky netcords in critical moments....

huangkwokhau

09-23-2009, 05:51 PM

i'm really impressed with the running of Russkikh, she's well pairing with Limpele somehow gave a fight and even beaten top pairs, and now with uncle also done as well, i wonder how her playing is, jus looking forward to seeing the video of her.....
Actually Taipeh pair did not know how to play XD especially Cheng Shao Chieh....so it was not that Candra/Russkikh played well....

Anastasia will pair with Tan Gek Chain in coming tournaments while Flady had agreed to partner with Taiwanese Wen Shing for future tournaments...

huangkwokhau

09-23-2009, 05:58 PM

Reiko Shiota is really an Icon of Badminton in Japan..most of non badminton fans just know her...also being told that most of th crowd who coming to watch Badminton know how to play badminton..

Reiko told me that she will play Dutch tournament, not sure baout Denmark/French Open as their ranking is not high enough...

badadum

09-23-2009, 06:07 PM

ladies are different. Oriental girls are always hot among Caucasian men. Sometimes, sexuality is above and beyond the race. Even Bao CL and Lee YD are popular among Indonesia girls.

Then how about Magic vs Bird in the 80s. Majority of Magic supporter are whites. Magic's not the 1st black superstar in the sport, everyone then already knows Black Men Can Jump, and I seriously doubt Magic's white fan are supporting him artificially (negating point 2,3,4,5).

There're tons of white Yao Ming's fans as well. Die hard fan that'll root for him regardless who's the opposition, be it Dirk, Kobe, Lebron, Gasol, Nash....

The same situation can also be said about soccer.

So what now? Team is also higher than race? :cool:

skchen

09-23-2009, 07:25 PM

BURNT OUT PLAYERS

I note with dismay the slide of Uncle WCH and ZM in the last two tournaments they participated in which are as follows:

LNCM YJO

WCH lost in 1st round 1ST round

ZM lost in QF 1st round

ZM also lost in the 2nd round of the Macau Grand Prix.

WCH was unfortunate to be pitted against very strong players like CL & PSH but that cannot be said of ZM whose opponents are nothing to ‘shout’ about except for Lu Lan in the LNCM.
What does this indicate? It could be that these two players have over-participated in tournaments and are ‘burnt out’ and that they need to rest and recharge and more so as they are not in the low-20 age group. The tour injects added excitement with these two players participating and I trust that they will stay healthy for the next few years.
It is no fun to watch an all-China finals’ tournament as almost happened in the 2009 China Masters. The situation could be manipulated by way of cancellation or abandonment of games and the players who did not play or who played less than the full match will be fresher for the next tournament which could be staged in the following week.

:(:(:(:(:(:(
__________________________________________________ __

2cents

09-23-2009, 07:54 PM

Then how about Magic vs Bird in the 80s. Majority of Magic supporter are whites. Magic's not the 1st black superstar in the sport, everyone then already knows Black Men Can Jump, and I seriously doubt Magic's white fan are supporting him artificially (negating point 2,3,4,5).

There're tons of white Yao Ming's fans as well. Die hard fan that'll root for him regardless who's the opposition, be it Dirk, Kobe, Lebron, Gasol, Nash....

The same situation can also be said about soccer.

So what now? Team is also higher than race? :cool:

hey, you got a logic problem. My original point was that race or ethnic group have more influence than nationality. I didn't say race was the only factor. I even mentioned that sexual attractiveness could be more important than race, of course there are more other factors. All your points against me were pretty groundless.

Only people whom I was against put the nationality as the only factor to accuse Ajaib and tommy_bun not supporting his countrymen.

If you want to disapprove what I said, you should give examples that nationality is the most important factor, or the only factor to decide whom to support. Yao Ming is not even an American, while Michael Chang is. What's your point?! :confused::confused::confused:

In basket ball, whites are the victim of race discrimination, black people like basketball much more than whites. If you analysis the fan base for Bird and Magic, you would find the big difference by race. It has the statistical significance, but not clear cut that all whites supported Bird while all blacks supported Magic. Race of course is a factor, but not the only factor, sometime, not even the biggest factor, but it's bigger than that of nationality.

badadum

09-23-2009, 08:16 PM

If you want to disapprove what I said, you should give examples that nationality is the most important factor, or the only factor to decide whom to support. Yao Ming is not even an American, while Michael Chang is. What's your point?! :confused::confused::confused:

Friend, you were saying that white Americans supports British-Henman against American-Chang, because of Henman's race (being white).
Care to explain why white American support Chinese-Yao against the likes of white American/Canadian/German/Russian/Spaniard player then? Now, the scenario is opposite of tennis and according to your argument, white American should support white players.....yet here they are supporting a player from different race alltogether against player of their own race.
See the point?

Change it to international competition and do you really think white American won't throw their support behind Black/Asian/Hispanics American Basketball/Baseball/Soccer/Track & Field<insert sports here> atheletes when they clash against an all white team from England/Ireland/Germany/Russia/<etc>?

That's what you're stating with your race over nationality statement, and there's plenty of precedence against it.

2cents

09-23-2009, 08:50 PM

Friend, you were saying that white Americans supports British-Henman against American-Chang, because of Henman's race (being white).
Care to explain why white American support Chinese-Yao against the likes of white American/Canadian/German/Russian/Spaniard player then? Now, the scenario is opposite of tennis and according to your argument, white American should support white players.....yet here they are supporting a player from different race alltogether against player of their own race.
See the point?

Change it to international competition and do you really think white American won't throw their support behind Black/Asian/Hispanics American Basketball/Baseball/Soccer/Track & Field<insert sports here> atheletes when they clash against an all white team from England/Ireland/Germany/Russia/<etc>?

That's what you're stating with your race over nationality statement, and there's plenty of precedence against it.

you are probably suffering from over imagination, I saw more white people dislike Yao. Of course, Yao is a selling point which none can replace. NBA is money driven, Yao is the tallest player with decent skills, and also huge China market behind him, ..., all these made him famous, and became a revenue generator for NBA and his employer. But this doesn't mean he's more favorite than even Kobe and LeBron as you suggested. Yao is always the one suffering from most bad calls from judges, which usually go with the percentage of the fans in market economy.

Even for international competition, I never said white will never support non-whites. Please read my post again. What I said was that race is more important than nationality. You have said a lot, but none of what you said has disapproved my point, not even close.

badadum

09-23-2009, 09:32 PM

you are probably suffering from over imagination, I saw more white people dislike Yao.

Care to explain how Yao won the all star vote then? And before you went off about all the internet votes from china, Yao had also won the paper votes version also for West Center spot, beating Shaq among others (can't remember the year, probably 2003-2004).

But this doesn't mean he's more favorite than even Kobe and LeBron as you suggested

Are you sure you're not the one suffering from over imagination? I believe what I stated was:

There're tons of white Yao Ming's fans as well. Die hard fan that'll root for him regardless who's the opposition, be it Dirk, Kobe, Lebron, Gasol, Nash
Now, where exactly did I say he's more popular than Lebron or Kobe?:confused:

Even for international competition, I never said white will never support non-whites. Please read my post again. What I said was that race is more important than nationality. You have said a lot, but none of what you said has disapproved my point, not even close.

If race is more important than nationality, then why white Americans support their almost entirely black basketball team against for example, all-white team of germany? Or why would they support an American black or hispanic boxer against a white opponent from Russia or Germany?
Is that clear enough for you?

2cents

09-23-2009, 10:08 PM

Care to explain how Yao won the all star vote then? And before you went off about all the internet votes from china, Yao had also won the paper votes version also for West Center spot, beating Shaq among others (can't remember the year, probably 2003-2004).

this is quite easy to explain: you have to sum all the votes for blacks together, if your math is not that bad, you would know the answer

by the way, Shaq was definitely supported predominately by blacks, while white people rather chose a new guy. That's reason.

Are you sure you're not the one suffering from over imagination? I believe what I stated was:
Now, where exactly did I say he's more popular than Lebron or Kobe?:confused:

if you agree Yao's not as popular as Kobe or Lebron, then it's pointless for you to list several yao's diehard fans proving yao's popularity. If you agree Yao's not as popular as Kobe or Lebron, then that's the end of discussion, because blacks are majority in basketball.

If race is more important than nationality, then why white Americans support their almost entirely black basketball team against for example, all-white team of germany? Or why would they support an American black or hispanic boxer against a white opponent from Russia or Germany?
Is that clear enough for you?

you are so narrow minded. I have said many times, race is NOT the only factor to decide whom to support. You are stuck in the dark without knowing any way out. whom you are gonna support if your fragile grandpa plays with Michael Jordon? do you get it :cool:

badadum

09-23-2009, 10:32 PM

you are so narrow minded. I have said many times, race is NOT the only factor to decide whom to support. You are stuck in the dark without knowing any way out. whom you are gonna support if your fragile grandpa plays with Michael Jordon? do you get it :cool:

Wait a sec, you supplement your race is more important than nationality argument by taking example of white Americans supporting a white non-american player rather than their chinese american counterpart. Yet, when I point out other occassions where white american root for non-white americans against their white non-american counterpart, you dismiss it and saying race is not the only factor. If that's the case, why brought up the Henman vs Chang argument to begin with?? According to your own word, there could very well be other factor that superseed the race factor. Americans also loved to root for underdog, for example.

Do you see how you starting to contradict yourself??

2cents

09-23-2009, 10:46 PM

Wait a sec, you supplement your race is more important than nationality argument by taking example of white Americans supporting a white non-american player rather than their chinese american counterpart. Yet, when I point out other occassions where white american root for non-white americans against their white non-american counterpart, you dismiss it and saying race is not the only factor. If that's the case, why brought up the Henman vs Chang argument to begin with?? According to your own word, there could very well be other factor that superseed the race factor. Americans also loved to root for underdog, for example.

Do you see how you starting to contradict yourself??

things just got twisted in your mind only.

My example compared Chang (Asian American) vs Henman (White Englishman). But your example of Yao doesn't make any sense. He's not even a US citizen.

When I said my story, it was a fact of my own experience in US open. You have been fighting with facts fruitlessly. What I said is also a common sense. Race and ethnicity are always big issues in sports. I'm pretty fine with your blindness. My theory and observation are perfect, but beyond your capability of understanding. :D

2cents

09-23-2009, 10:53 PM

badadum

09-23-2009, 10:56 PM

things just got twisted in your mind only.

My example compared Chang (Asian American) vs Henman (White Englishman). But your example of Yao doesn't make any sense. He's not even a US citizen.

When I said my story, it was a fact of my own experience in US open. You have been fighting with facts fruitlessly. What I said is also a common sense. Race and ethnicity are always big issues in sports. I'm pretty fine with your blindness. My theory and observation are perfect, but beyond your capability of understanding. :D

LOL, but when your so-called own experienced was countered with other compelling fact (such as white american supporting their non-white american counterpart against white non-american), you're quick to dismiss it and said other factor is higher than race, which can easily be applied to your example to begin with.
With that kind of logic, your so-called perfection doesn't hold water. :D

badadum

09-23-2009, 11:01 PM

Once again, i even did not mention other factors at beginning, but pointed race and ethnicity don't have to be the biggest factor, but obviously a bigger factor than nationality.

Your statement of underdog is pointless. There are much more important factors, for example, money or even personal relationship. But those factors have nothing to do with my initial statement. Now I figure the main problem in our discussion is your reading comprehension ability.

My reading compherension is fine, sadly the same can't be said about your argument nor example.
Lets take it to the basic shall we?
Henman (white-non american) vs Chang (non white -american), you said white american support Henman since race >>>> nationality.

Marco Rudolph (white - non american) vs Oscar de La Hoya (non white - american). Based on your argument above, white american should support Rudolph, yet they're firmly behind the golden boy camp.

For the umpteenth time, is that clear enough?

limsy

09-23-2009, 11:28 PM

although i support badadum
but,just stop the war or use the pm function please

2cents

09-23-2009, 11:41 PM

My reading compherension is fine, sadly the same can't be said about your argument nor example.
Lets take it to the basic shall we?
Henman (white-non american) vs Chang (non white -american), you said white american support Henman since race >>>> nationality.

Marco Rudolph (white - non american) vs Oscar de La Hoya (non white - american). Based on your argument above, white american should support Rudolph, yet they're firmly behind the golden boy camp.

For the umpteenth time, is that clear enough?

bad example from you again :D

Poor amateur Rudolph can hardly compare with de La Hoya who has a very successful professional career.

Second, probably more Americans look more like the fair skinned de La Hoya than Rudolph, especially among boxing fans.

People would like to pick the one who looks similar to themselves when other factors are compatible.

Your way of arguing is not right. It's like I said educated people usually have higher income than uneducated people. But you pick lottery winner comparing to a post-doc.

If you disagree what I said, that's fine, what's your point? you want to prove there is no relationship with race or ethnicity ? or you want to prove everyone is a patriot?

2cents

09-23-2009, 11:44 PM

although i support badadum
but,just stop the war or use the pm function please

you'd better say you disagree with me, because there is nothing to support for you. badadum doesn't have any point of his own. :D

badadum

09-23-2009, 11:54 PM

Poor amateur Rudolph can hardly compare with de La Hoya who has a very successful professional career.

The example above was taken from 1991 World Championship and 1992 olympic matches. The circumstances are quite similar with your Henman vs Chang example (De La Hoya being the more famous non-white american), yet white american support him instead of his white-non american, less famous opponent. Completely the opposite of your so-called race >>>> nationality argument.

Second, probably more Americans look more like the fair skinned de La Hoya than Rudolph, especially among boxing fans.
People would like to pick the one who looks similar to themselves when other factors are compatible.

Now you're introducing another factor, ppl will pick those who look like themselves........ keep on tacking excuses I guess....:rolleyes:

If you disagree what I said, that's fine, what's your point? you want to prove there is no relationship with race or ethnicity ? or you want to prove everyone is a patriot?

Did I say there's no relationship with race or ethnicity? I'm simply arguing your so-called race >>>>> nationality argument and the example of Henman vs Chang.

2cents

09-24-2009, 12:02 AM

Now you're introducing another factor, ppl will pick those who look like themselves........ keep on tacking excuses I guess....:rolleyes:

Did I say there's no relationship with race or ethnicity? I'm simply arguing your so-called race >>>>> nationality argument and the example of Henman vs Chang.

I said even in my first post about race/ethnicity, that ordinary people don't bother to investigate your race or ethnicity, they will judge your race or ethnicity by how you look. How come this is a excuses.

It is really waste of time to argue with you because you have admitted yourself as pointless.

ctjcad

09-24-2009, 02:55 AM

2cents

09-24-2009, 08:52 AM

:p..surely the last few posts could've been dealt through PM...

Anyway, i quickly skimmed over the last few posts and i also got lost. But from what i can digest while skimming them over, my opinions are:
- In international play, we (most U.S. folks) would tend to support our team(s) no matter whether the players on the team are mostly white or non-white or mixed. I certainly do. In a way, there's a sense of patriotism.
- In domestic/national competitions, of course we tend to cheer on our local or fave team(s). But same deal, I don't think we would look at the race of players on our fave team(s) to be the determining factor in supporting them.
- Certain national sports do have more white and non-white players. But I don't think it has anything to do much with race but more on the amt of players available in a particular sport.

anyway..

It’s a very subtle sensitive issue; you can only feel it when you know it. You won’t feel it if you don’t know it at the first place. People even cannot control their subconscious.

Back to the Chang’s case, every American seems to claim as his fan. You can hardly see anyone against him in the States. This is almost the same as your feeling stated in your post and also what badadum think what Americans are. But if you knew thing a little bit deeper, you would find things are different.

I didn’t make up Chang’s story, read other forums, you will see many people sharing the same as me

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=170847&st=60

“I remember some years ago when I watched Michael Chang play in the U.S. Open in New York. The white fans in the audience were cheering for the white European opponent against Chang. Clearly racism took precedent over nationalism.”

Even Chang didn’t speak Chinese or Japanese. English was his only language when he was a pro. US passport has been the only passport he has. But he never got home advantage in the US. His home advantage is in China, in Japan, in Taiwan. If you don’t believe that, just google, or ask Chang yourself.

pjswift

09-24-2009, 09:12 AM

It’s a very subtle sensitive issue; you can only feel it when you know it. You won’t feel it if you don’t know it at the first place. People even cannot control their subconscious.

Back to the Chang’s case, every American seems to claim as his fan. You can hardly see anyone against him in the States. This is almost the same as your feeling stated in your post and also what badadum think what Americans are. But if you knew thing a little bit deeper, you would find things are different.

I didn’t make up Chang’s story, read other forums, you will see many people sharing the same as me

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=170847&st=60

“I remember some years ago when I watched Michael Chang play in the U.S. Open in New York. The white fans in the audience were cheering for the white European opponent against Chang. Clearly racism took precedent over nationalism.”

Even Chang didn’t speak Chinese or Japanese. English was his only language when he was a pro. US passport has been the only passport he has. But he never got home advantage in the US. His home advantage is in China, in Japan, in Taiwan. If you don’t believe that, just google, or ask Chang yourself.
Henman? He always had crowd support because they knew it's crucial so there's a match. It's a compliment to Chang. USO crowd usually supports the underdog. They want value for their money. They want every match to go to 5 sets because USO is the only GS that has a fifth set tiebreak and they felt shortchanged. Only problem is they can't control the weather.

nunu27

09-24-2009, 09:13 AM

ok...
the conclusion is: no matter who supports whom.
if it's private choice (one of human rights maybe?..:D.) as long as they can accept when the opponents are better than the player their supported...;)
or if still want to continue, any idea to make new thread? hmm.. maybe new forum.
or i think better pm, then.

peace...;)

chris-ccc

09-24-2009, 11:53 AM

if it's private choice (one of human rights maybe?..:D.) as long as they can accept when the opponents are better than the player their supported...;)
or if still want to continue, any idea to make new thread? hmm.. maybe new forum.
or i think better pm, then.

peace...;)

.
Sad isn't it?
Is it because we have different coloured skin? :(:(:(

Let's see the person, not his/her skin colour.
.

2cents

09-24-2009, 01:27 PM

.
Sad isn't it?
Is it because we have different coloured skin? :(:(:(

Let's see the person, not his/her skin colour.
.

the whole point here actually, back to where we started, is to comment on Ajaib and Tommy's cheering for Chinese players.

That's the reason the topic is beyond the private messaging.

I support Ajaib and Tommy, because as a sports fan, there is no obligation to support his countrymen. Even the most patriot Americans don't. The reason, Ajaib gave, is personal experience on ethnicity. He's right, because that’s even more predominant than nationality in American. I don’t blame it, instead, think they are quite reasonable. Of course, there are more other reasons, like personal flavor, sexual attractiveness, money involved (gambling), personal relationships, …. Therefore, it’s not the right thing to do for blaming the fans not supporting their own country. I support my own country less than 33%, and I’m proud of it.

Please give people more freedom to support and cheer for. That’s my 2 cents.

ytyang

09-24-2009, 02:05 PM

I support you. Your efforts worth more than 2 cents....

ctjcad

09-24-2009, 02:58 PM

..my last post on this..*sigh*:p

It’s a very subtle sensitive issue; you can only feel it when you know it. You won’t feel it if you don’t know it at the first place. People even cannot control their subconscious.

Back to the Chang’s case, every American seems to claim as his fan. You can hardly see anyone against him in the States. This is almost the same as your feeling stated in your post and also what badadum think what Americans are. But if you knew thing a little bit deeper, you would find things are different.

I didn’t make up Chang’s story, read other forums, you will see many people sharing the same as me

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=170847&st=60

“I remember some years ago when I watched Michael Chang play in the U.S. Open in New York. The white fans in the audience were cheering for the white European opponent against Chang. Clearly racism took precedent over nationalism.”

Even Chang didn’t speak Chinese or Japanese. English was his only language when he was a pro. US passport has been the only passport he has. But he never got home advantage in the US. His home advantage is in China, in Japan, in Taiwan. If you don’t believe that, just google, or ask Chang yourself.
- I don't deny racism or race still exists, no matter how much we try to "hide" it. People of all races still have a tendency to "look down" on other minority groups or other races. Why? it's just the inert nature of human beings..

- As for the M. Chang's story, i don't doubt it being true. I don't really care, to be honest. So what if one writer feels that way? Should we all take his opinion heavily? Also, those white fans who cheered on Henman could simply be his fans (U.S. folks or not). IMO, it has nothing to do with them being against U.S. athletes or not.
IMO, why M. Chang didn't get the same notoriety as other Asian American athletes here in the U.S. are because he doesn't have the off court appeal like other sports figures; tennis is not really a high profile sport in the U.S. (at least not the top 4); he doesn't command the same presence on court as his other compatriots (U.S. sports fans tend to be tantalized easily by players who have flair & style, that extra "oomph"); and the lack of exposure of Asian athletes as there aren't many Asian/Asian-American competing in professional sports here in the U.S. Do you know Apollo Anton Ono (male speed skater who is half-Asian-Caucasian)? He was quite popular. So were the other athletes mentioned by badadum (yeah, yeah, i know some would say they were popular because had the eyecandy appeal for U.S. male fans blabla; but most important, their actions and results spoke louder).

- Individual sports tend to have less American supporters than team sports. U.S. sports mentality tends to be team first. Also, as pjswift mentioned, the U.S. folks will also tend to support underdogs.

...
I support Ajaib and Tommy, because as a sports fan, there is no obligation to support his countrymen. Even the most patriot Americans don't. The reason, Ajaib gave, is personal experience on ethnicity. He's right, because that’s even more predominant than nationality in American. I don’t blame it, instead, think they are quite reasonable. Of course, there are more other reasons, like personal flavor, sexual attractiveness, money involved (gambling), personal relationships, …. Therefore, it’s not the right thing to do for blaming the fans not supporting their own country. I support my own country less than 33%, and I’m proud of it.
...
- If you want to make a case defending Ajaib & tommy_bun, then you should've gone directly back to the related posts. But i think we've veered this enough, until your above post which finally indicates your whole point.

- I know you want to make your point across, but i think you are barking @ the wrong tree(s). As far as i can feel, most of the BCers don't mind people from one nationality cheering players from other countries; me included.
If you want to bark, please do so & make your point @ the members who were questioning/"blaming" Ajaib & tommy_bun or other INA who are cheering/die hard supporters for other countries' players..:cool:

If you want to chit-chat more, you know where to PM me...otherwise, i'll leave my comments as they are..:cool:

2cents

09-24-2009, 03:18 PM

..my last post on this..*sigh*:p

- If you want to make a case defending Ajaib & tommy_bun, then you should've gone directly back to the related posts. But i think we've veered this enough, until your above post which finally indicates your whole point.

- I know you want to make your point across, but i think you are barking @ the wrong tree(s). As far as i can feel, most of the BCers don't mind people from one nationality cheering players from other countries; me included.
If you want to bark, please do so & make your point @ the members who were questioning/"blaming" Ajaib & tommy_bun or other INA who are cheering/die hard supporters for other countries' players..:cool:

If you want to chit-chat more, you know where to PM me...otherwise, i'll leave my comments as they are..:cool:

I am the victim of your reckless barking. Did I blame you at the beginning? My first post on this thread was a comment after reading Ajaib’s touching personal story. Here’s my initial post:

It's a very touching story and personal experience. You should be proud of you, you should be proud of being Chinese now. I am proud of you.

When I was watching the US Open (tennis) years ago, cheering for Michael Chang against Englishman Henman. The overwhelming American spectators in the stadium were cheering for the English instead of their own countryman Michael Chang. By the way, Chang was a lot more famous than Henman, and there were a lot people in the American claimed themselves as Chang’s fans.

Even the majority of a country don’t have to support its countryman, while accusing one individual who supports the hero he likes just outside his country?

On the other hand, Chang, as a Chinese descendant with American citizenship got all stadium support in Japan. Why? I guess the reason is simple. Japanese find out Chang sharing the same look and build as themselves. It’s the same reason Americans support Henman instead of Chang. Race or ethnic groups are more important than nationality

Then some people blamed me what I said was untrue. Then you joined in without any invitation to suggest what I said were wrong.

Your accusation is so ridiculous. :eek:

ytyang

09-24-2009, 03:46 PM

Not all BCers are friendly as we thought...:crying:

You two...
Whenever CHN players play, support them till dead.
When INA players play, dead silence.
And you call yourselves Indonesians.
Ah well. Guess some people like you exist. :rolleyes:

Ajaib, are you chinese refugee and still cheering them? :confused::confused:

laior

09-24-2009, 05:36 PM

When quarter final will begin? 1h30 from now? right?

huangkwokhau

09-24-2009, 06:06 PM

When quarter final will begin? 1h30 from now? right?
another 4 hrs..12 pm in japan....

huangkwokhau

09-24-2009, 06:16 PM

It's a very touching story and personal expeirence. You should be proud of you, you should be proud of being Chinese now. I am proud of you.
In this case....if tibetans or uygurs people are being proud of themselves, not as chinese..is that okay? I do not think so in the eye od Chinese government..as they are chinese but do you think those tibetans/uygurs will feel being proud of chinese...I doubt it....
if you want Ajaib or Tommy Bun being proud of being chinese, not as chinese indonesian then you should let those tibetans/uygurs being themselves, if they are not proud of being chinese..

It is perfectly OK to support whoever you want..as long as you do not mock or offend other players..I do not believe that you need to support certain players based on race...if you are based on that like Ajaib's story,,it becomes hate....

2cents

09-24-2009, 07:20 PM

In this case....if tibetans or uygurs people are being proud of themselves, not as chinese..is that okay?

You assumption about me is WRONG!

IMO, Tibetans should be proud of being Tibetans, So should Uygurs. Your own or their own or everyone's ethnicity is that one's identity. Everyone should be proud of being themselves. If they don't, then that's great too, which implies they have the ability to improve themselves.

In the other sense, if they are proud of being Chinese, that's good too. Chinese, as a term, could be a collective group including all the ethnicity in China.

I do not think so in the eye od Chinese government..as they are chinese but do you think those tibetans/uygurs will feel being proud of chinese...I doubt it....

You probably have very biased opinion towards Chinese government. Anyway, you are probably somewhat right about some Tibetans or Uygurs, but definitely not all of them, not even majority of them.

I have met Dalai Lama, and even shake hands with him. He's a great and nice guy, I'm proud of him too.

if you want Ajaib or Tommy Bun being proud of being chinese, not as chinese indonesian then you should let those tibetans/uygurs being themselves, if they are not proud of being chinese..

Almost every sentence you wrote were wrong! I have NO intention to request either Ajaib or Tommy Bun being proud of being Chinese. Where did you draw that weird conclusion. I said he should've, and I am proud of that, which means, I admire that he's proud of being a Chinese which he is an ethnic Chinese but deprived of right to possess their own identity. Now he's brave enough to be proud of himself, that's the think I am happy to see.

Same thing even applies to Dalai Lama, He should be proud to a Tibetan (although some rumors saying he's an ethnic Han people by birth). I am happy to see that. I hate to see people living in such a scaring condition even cannot being themselves.

I totally accept Tibetan or Uygurs as ethnic groups. I am proud of them too. But the problem about Indonesia is that the ethnic Chinese have been rejected as a ethnic group for decades.

If Ajaib were proud of being an Indonesian by heart, that's good too as long as he's NOT forced to do that. I am even more happy to wish him good luck in Indonesia.

It is perfectly OK to support whoever you want..as long as you do not mock or offend other players..I do not believe that you need to support certain players based on race...if you are based on that like Ajaib's story,,it becomes hate....

totally nonsense ;)

huangkwokhau

09-24-2009, 07:38 PM

You assumption about me is WRONG!

IMO, Tibetans should be proud of being Tibetans, So should Uygurs. Your own or their own or everyone's ethnicity is that one's identity. Everyone should be proud of being themselves. If they don't, then that's great too, which implies they have the ability to improve themselves.

In the other sense, if they are proud of being Chinese, that's good too. Chinese, as a term, could be a collective group including all the ethnicity in China.

You probably have very biased opinion towards Chinese government. Anyway, you are probably somewhat right about some Tibetans or Uygurs, but definitely not all of them, not even majority of them.

I have met Dalai Lama, and even shake hands with him. He's a great and nice guy, I'm proud of him too.

Almost every sentence you wrote were wrong! I have NO intention to request either Ajaib or Tommy Bun being proud of being Chinese. Where did you draw that weird conclusion. I said he should've, and I am proud of that, which means, I admire that he's proud of being a Chinese which he is an ethnic Chinese but deprived of right to possess their own identity. Now he's brave enough to be proud of himself, that's the think I am happy to see.

Same thing even applies to Dalai Lama, He should be proud to a Tibetan (although some rumors saying he's an ethnic Han people by birth). I am happy to see that. I hate to see people living in such a scaring condition even cannot being themselves.

I totally accept Tibetan or Uygurs as ethnic groups. I am proud of them too. But the problem about Indonesia is that the ethnic Chinese have been rejected as a ethnic group for decades.

If Ajaib were proud of being an Indonesian by heart, that's good too as long as he's NOT forced to do that. I am even more happy to wish him good luck in Indonesia.

totally nonsense ;)

It is nosense also...I do not assume you as I do not know you...we are debating about the race....you are just in denial...I am not biased about Chinese government..you just assume everybody is wrong as we do not agree with you...get your own life dude....
Talking about Dalai Lam..hm..hm...did chinese giovernment approve him? NO..NO..NO...if you say chinese gov is okay with that..then you will be in trouble...am I bias now toward chinese government? no..no..even chinese government condemns it publicly about Dalai Lama and Tibetans..Dude..

Look at the bold one....then you are very biased against Indonesia government also...if chinese indonesia felt being rejected...we will not have some chinese indonesian in the government's seat...
As you assume everybody is WRONG..then I assume you in this totally WRONG and NONSENSE....
You can accpet them but Tibetans and Uygurs do not want to be part of CHINA...we all know that...Indonesia governemnt does accept Chinese descent..you are just too bias toward INA government too...

Dude..read my sentenses carefully...if I am asking is that OKAY or not..I do not assume you are WRONG...you are just too negative in Buddah's teaching....if you have met Dalai Lama, he will telly ou how much negative feelings you have...

huangkwokhau

09-24-2009, 07:49 PM

You assumption about me is WRONG!

Same thing even applies to Dalai Lama, He should be proud to a Tibetan (although some rumors saying he's an ethnic Han people by birth). I am happy to see that. I hate to see people living in such a scaring condition even cannot being themselves.

;)
good...did Ajaib;s living in a scaring condition in Indonesia? if you said that, why dont you support thefreedom of Tibetans opr Uyguyrs? some report say that they are living in scaring condition..it contradicted your opinion,...it is so confusing....so the question is OKAY or NOT?

2cents

09-24-2009, 07:52 PM

By the way, Have I ever supported any player here based on my nationality?

The answer is NO.

Have I ever support any player here purely based on my race and ethnicity?

The answer is NO.

Please check all the records on this forum, I never promote nationalism or racism. But I don't miss any chance to fight with them.

I can tolerate those crazy patriots and racists like guests in Murray show
Maury Povich Show. but those guys should understand there are still some other people, like me, not sharing that madness. :)

2cents

09-24-2009, 07:58 PM

..you just assume everybody is wrong as we do not agree with you...get your own life dude.......

your wrongness were not assumed, they have been proved wrong. Loser. :cool:

huangkwokhau

09-24-2009, 08:37 PM

your wrongness were not assumed, they have been proved wrong. Loser. :cool:
At the end is you..BIG loser....:D:D....Okay,,I will call you Mr.Right...always right....you do not know how to make your wholw point in this thread....thats a loser..;)..enjoy!!

limsy

09-24-2009, 08:53 PM

Not all BCers are friendly as we thought...:crying:

relax
in the previous year
bc is more more firework than this:p
anyway,i hope mod will do something now:cool:

nokh88

09-24-2009, 09:02 PM

limsy

09-24-2009, 09:14 PM

ytyang

09-24-2009, 09:16 PM

It is getting personal and ugly! Let's call it quit and let this
thread die down.....

ctjcad

09-24-2009, 09:18 PM

This thread has become very hostile and I am confused who is against who. Could someone summarise the two sides. It was badadum vs cooler, then badadum vs 2 cents, then ctcad vs 2 cents and then huangkwokhau vs 2 cents with some other members supporting on the sidelines. I am not trying to create rivalry parties here. I know they may be on the same sides on other issues. It's that I just got lost after reading so much !!:confused:
..i hope you're not the next contestant..:p;)

Well, this happens when there are a bit of misunderstanding or if things don't get explained properly; of course, when emotion gets in the mix, the debate could flare up even more..

For me, i got lost when badadum & 2cents debated; i certainly couldn't follow up on the real disagreement(s) (maybe cos of my slow brain cells)..:p

My whole point was, 2cents' point is clear. I understand & i've no problem or beef with it. But rather than throwing it into a general direction, he should've directed his point to those members who he thought should not hinder Ajaib & tommy_bun from cheering non-INA players (yes, ytyang mentioned them). I think that's where badadum got a bit confused & the misunderstanding started.
On my part, i should've thought twice abt posting earlier...:p

fyi, badadum & cooler have debated before in other scenarios/threads.:p

nokh88

09-24-2009, 09:32 PM

..i hope you're not the next contestant..:p;)

Well, this happens when there are a bit of misunderstanding or if things don't get explained properly; of course, when emotion gets in the mix, the debate could flare up even more..

For me, i got lost when badadum & 2cents debated; i certainly couldn't follow up on the real disagreement(s) (maybe cos of my slow brain cells)..:p

My whole point was, 2cents' point is clear. I understand & i've no problem or beef with it. But rather than throwing it into a general direction, he should've directed his point to those members who he thought should not hinder Ajaib & tommy_bun from cheering non-INA players (yes, ytyang mentioned them). I think that's where badadum got a bit confused & the misunderstanding started.
On my part, i should've thought twice abt posting earlier...:p

fyi, badadum & cooler have debated before in other scenarios/threads.:p

No, I won't be signing up for this contest. I do not have the arsenal nor the ammunition to do battle. Race is a very sensitive issue. I will just take Limsy's advice to just sit back and relax. And thanks for your explanation

limsy

09-24-2009, 09:35 PM

fyi, badadum & cooler have debated before in other scenarios/threads.:p

I will just take Limsy's advice to just sit back and relax. And thanks for your explanation

wise enough
haha
there are some enjoyable debate
and some are not
the class of opponent is different:cool:

badadum

09-24-2009, 09:41 PM

You call this fireworks??? Ugly?? This is nothing compared to the more "heated" discussion of the past. :p

Let's be clear on a couple of things though. I completely agree that anyone should have the freedom to support whoever they might choose (hence my reply to suetyan's in post 277). My objection starts whenever those very same person start ridicules and insult other players. Once that happen, don't expect the other side won't retaliate.
As stated before, I'm glad to say that Ajaib (and tommy_bun, suetyan,etc) doesn't display that kind of behavior. At this point (I think) my position and 2cents's are pretty similar.

The point of contention between me and 2cents (at least from my point of view) lies on the statement that "Race or ethnic groups are more important than nationality" and the use of Henman vs Chang as an example...in which I have thrown several examples disputing it. Rather than having to regurgitate the whole thingamajing again, suffice to say I disagree with his position.

Now...back to your regular JO showing :)

2cents

09-24-2009, 09:44 PM

Well, every word has been saved on database, and displayed on this thread. I don't know anything more than anyone else who can read.

My intention at beginning was for supporting Ajaib. It's not uncommon that ethnicity comes before nationality when choose their favorite players. Based on Ajaib's personal experience, I think it's very reasonable and admirable for his support to the Chinese players.

And then some people began to attack my theory. I think it's good to make my theory even more mature. So I was pretty happy to exchange ideas and comments with them.

That's the whole story from my side. I didn't see any problem with this thread so far.

2cents

09-24-2009, 09:50 PM

The point of contention between me and 2cents (at least from my point of view) lies on the statement that "Race or ethnic groups are more important than nationality" and the use of Henman vs Chang as an example...in which I have thrown several examples disputing it. Rather than having to regurgitate the whole thingamajing again, suffice to say I disagree with his position.

good to know you support Ajaib too. But...

the foundation to support Ajaib is to admit that Race or ethnic groups are more important than nationality" . Because other people accused him not support his own country.

so, then, what's your logic to support Ajaib?

Sorry I didn't read your post before, I usually don't read many posts here. Your name seems new to me, probably so does my name to you.

george@chongwei

09-24-2009, 09:58 PM

You call this fireworks??? Ugly?? This is nothing compared to the more "heated" discussion of the past. :p

Now...back to your regular JO showing :)
like me against limsy's fav member, pemuda of the past?:D

badadum

09-24-2009, 10:02 PM

good to know you support Ajaib too. But...

the foundation to support Ajaib is to admit that Race or ethnic groups are more important than nationality" . Because other people accused him not support his own country.

so, then, what's your logic to support Ajaib?

Sorry I didn't read your post before, I usually don't read many posts here. Your name seems new to me, probably so does my name to you.

Freedom of speech, with an extra badadum's flavor. I'll respect your position as long as you don't demean other. Once that happen, all gloves are off.

I disagree with your position since one can also easily support their fellow countryman against someone from their own race (as with the various examples I already stated).

Here's another argument to your statement. If race is truly >>> than nationality, then Indonesian Chinese or Malay-Chinese would support china's player whenever they play against TH, SDK, HH, etc..... Well, we've plenty of living samples of the exact opposites here in BC alone.

limsy

09-24-2009, 10:05 PM

You call this fireworks??? Ugly?? This is nothing compared to the more "heated" discussion of the past. :p

hehe
yes
i still miss those days:p

like me against limsy's fav member, pemuda of the past?:D

cheh
ur fave not mine
ur BEST FRIEND in bc:cool:

aulia

09-24-2009, 10:27 PM

Ah...so hot here...:D:D
http://mega.xtremenitro.org/bigonion/smiley/A_009.gif (http://xtremenitro.org)

Alhamdulillah, my English isn't good so I can't join this debate...hehe...

Peace for everyone!
http://mega.xtremenitro.org/bigonion/smiley/A_040.gif (http://xtremenitro.org)

2cents

09-25-2009, 07:37 AM

Freedom of speech, with an extra badadum's flavor. I'll respect your position as long as you don't demean other. Once that happen, all gloves are off.

I disagree with your position since one can also easily support their fellow countryman against someone from their own race (as with the various examples I already stated).

Here's another argument to your statement. If race is truly >>> than nationality, then Indonesian Chinese or Malay-Chinese would support china's player whenever they play against TH, SDK, HH, etc..... Well, we've plenty of living samples of the exact opposites here in BC alone.

how did you know the race and ethnicity of the people on this forum? Misunderstanding came from self assumption. although there is peroperty called "location" in the personal profile. I did see there's a strong correlation between the person's location and his opinion on this forum. That's the exact reason I cherish the opinions of Ajaib and Tommy. They were the very few can break that barrier.

2cents

09-25-2009, 08:05 AM

I just randomly took a glance at the posts. The strong correlation between person's location and his opinion only holds for the people from Malaysia and Indonesia.

I saw many people from Europe and American (their locations) also diehard Malaysian fans or Indonesian fans. why? I think the race and ethnicity play some roles here.

By the way, Malaysia top aces, both men and ladies, singles and doubles, are all ethnic Chinese. Therefore, when a Chinese decendant with Malaysia passport support Malaysia ethnic chinese players, we can not draw any conclusion simply.

lcleing

09-25-2009, 08:11 AM

2cents

09-25-2009, 08:42 AM

Opps, didn't expect this to turned out to be a multiple sides debate(I myself got lost in between the arguments and have no idea who is against who right now). I admit that I am the one who started all this mess and I am sorry for getting some of the innocent BCers involved in this.

Meanwhile, I think is better to lock this thread as those who were involved in the debate has lost their composure and every single disagreement towards their points(even though those disagreements have been nicely put across) has been taken as personal attacks and hence resorting to being extremely hostile (respond with another personal attack) when comes to defending their case.

My apology.

fortunately, this is your first post I read, therefore, you cannot take credit for creating this long thread. ;) Your apology cannot be delivered, no one can take it because no one got hurt.

I'm pretty happy to see people's attacking toward me. That's the all purpose of a forum: exchanging words in public, instead of private messaging.

This thread is growing very healthy, and no need to be closed or removed.

huangkwokhau

09-25-2009, 10:02 AM

fortunately, this is your first post I read, therefore, you cannot take credit for creating this long thread. ;) Your apology cannot be delivered, no one can take it because no one got hurt.

I'm pretty happy to see people's attacking toward me. That's the all purpose of a forum: exchanging words in public, instead of private messaging.

This thread is growing very healthy, and no need to be closed or removed.
Wow..so it is healthy to call people LOSER...?..you are just one of bias one but calling other people bias.....

badadum

09-25-2009, 10:09 AM

how did you know the race and ethnicity of the people on this forum? Misunderstanding came from self assumption. although there is peroperty called "location" in the personal profile. I did see there's a strong correlation between the person's location and his opinion on this forum. That's the exact reason I cherish the opinions of Ajaib and Tommy. They were the very few can break that barrier.

Well, suffice to say some of us interact more than others. Assumption is not in play here. ;)

By the way, Malaysia top aces, both men and ladies, singles and doubles, are all ethnic Chinese. Therefore, when a Chinese decendant with Malaysia passport support Malaysia ethnic chinese players, we can not draw any conclusion simply.

The very same Malaysian Chinese fans still cheers Fuzzy and HH (with all his yoyo-ing way). Back where the Sidek brothers (Misbun, Rashid, Razif, Jalani) were playing against chinese players you could see the same things.

Your argument also hold no ground against the INA players and the Indonesian Chinese, where the current top aces for most category (MS, WS, XD and half of MD and WD) are non-Chinese.

2cents

09-25-2009, 12:48 PM

Wow..so it is healthy to call people LOSER...?..you are just one of bias one but calling other people bias.....

I'm fine with it as long as you are fine with telling people "get a life"

cooler

09-25-2009, 12:49 PM

2cents

09-25-2009, 01:09 PM

Well, suffice to say some of us interact more than others. Assumption is not in play here. ;)

The very same Malaysian Chinese fans still cheers Fuzzy and HH (with all his yoyo-ing way). Back where the Sidek brothers (Misbun, Rashid, Razif, Jalani) were playing against chinese players you could see the same things.

Your argument also hold no ground against the INA players and the Indonesian Chinese, where the current top aces for most category (MS, WS, XD and half of MD and WD) are non-Chinese.

First, I don't know who's whom on this forum. 2nd, there are also many best ever badminton talents from Indonesia are ethnic Chinese, such as Rudy Hartono, Liem Swie King, Susi Susanti, Mia Audina, Alan Budikusuma, Arbi..., even Permadi, Tony, Candra, Flandy,... are all ethnic Chinese. Because of its cruel conditions and denial of status for generations, Chinese there had to convert to survive. Most of them cannot speak Chinese, and their body physically are Chinese, but their minds, their culture are not any more. In fact, we really have no idea about those Indonesia players' ethnicity.

Any argument is only valid within its domain which includes conditions and limitations. Even Newtonian theory are wrong for both high speed and microscopic world

ctjcad

09-25-2009, 01:40 PM

..the 2nd round of this debate has ensued...:p

..yet, the members who originally lit up this debate (akhem, Jagdpanther and kuwichert) haven't been seen in this thread since...:confused:

..i recall another INA member, Rahayu (here's the catch, i don't think she's INA-Chinese), who is a big time supporter of Wang Chen..and a lot of non-INA players..:cool:

..on the other side of the spectrum, i know there are quite a few INA-Chinese BCers who support non-INA-Chinese players..:cool:

..race>nationality? nationality>race?..IMO, in the end, the majority of die hard INA badminton supporters in BC (whether they're INA-Chinese or non-INA-chinese) would support their players and could care less if the players are of Chinese ancestry or not. Of course, there will be a few INA BCers who will cheer exclusively for CHN or non-INA players, but i feel they're in the minority.

..oh well, i guess this will continue on and who knows where this will end up..:confused:

nunu27

09-25-2009, 01:57 PM

badadum

09-25-2009, 02:11 PM

First, I don't know who's whom on this forum. 2nd, there are also many best ever badminton talents from Indonesia are ethnic Chinese, such as Rudy Hartono, Liem Swie King, Susi Susanti, Mia Audina, Alan Budikusuma, Arbi..., even Permadi, Tony, Candra, Flandy,... are all ethnic Chinese. Because of its cruel conditions and denial of status for generations, Chinese there had to convert to survive. Most of them cannot speak Chinese, and their body physically are Chinese, but their minds, their culture are not any more. In fact, we really have no idea about those Indonesia players' ethnicity.

Any argument is only valid within its domain which includes conditions and limitations. Even Newtonian theory are wrong for both high speed and microscopic world

Ok, chris is right, I do get confused with your argument.
Are you questioning whether the likes of Taufik, Sony, Nova Butet,etc are really chinese ? Yes, there're tons of top Indonesian Chinese shuttlers, but there're also plenty of top non chinese shuttler. Ricky/Rexy, Icuk, Joko, to name a few. They too (like Taufik,etc nowadays) were supported by the Indonesian Chinese.
Or are you saying the chinese indonesian that support the non-chinese indonesian players are chinese in name only, (since they can't speak chinese,etc)...and therefore can't be considered chinese? If that's the case, it might be true for some (hence the totok vs babah argument), by my experience has been many of the very same folks you accused of not being chinese = still speak mandarin, practice chinese belief and consider them chinese.

Lets look at the Malaysian. In general, the malaysian chinese are in much better shape compared to the indonesian chinese. They're the biggest minority group and wield considerable influence in both politics and economy and generally are more accepted than that of their indonesian chinese counterpart. Most of them still practices chinese culture and don't differ much from those of mainland chinese. Yet, take a look at Thomas Cup 1990 finals and see whom they're cheering.

badadum

09-25-2009, 02:17 PM

..
..i recall another INA member, Rahayu (here's the catch, i don't think she's INA-Chinese), who is a big time supporter of Wang Chen..and a lot of non-INA players..:cool:

Yup, another living example against 2cents statement, albeit from a different angle.

IMO, in the end, the majority of die hard INA badminton supporters in BC (whether they're INA-Chinese or non-INA-chinese) would support their players and could care less if the players are of Chinese ancestry or not.
:confused:

AGREED 100%. That's why I think the race >><<<>>><<>< nationality thingy is foolish to begin with. People will cheers whoever they wish to cheers for....yellow, brown, black skinned be damned.

2cents

09-25-2009, 03:26 PM

Yup, another living example against 2cents statement, albeit from a different angle.

LOL, I have to admit, but everyone with common sense knows, that my point is only valid on statisical meanning.

It proves nothing, if you cite your cousin as a living example. :eek:

AGREED 100%. That's why I think the race >><<<>>><<>< nationality thingy is foolish to begin with. People will cheers whoever they wish to cheers for....yellow, brown, black skinned be damned.

That's the fundamental difference between you and me, that's the fundamental difference between religion and science.

Religion is always right for religious people, because it's a doctrine without reasoning. You have your doctrine and cannot find the relationships between facts, cannot find the patterns between information. Everything for you is either predesigned or unknown forever, so you cannot see any thing, regardless race, nationality. Therefore, there is no wonder for you foolishly view any logical activity as foolish.

My view is scientific, and what I was trying to do is to dig out the relationship and pattern hidden in this process. My search result is the finding of this race nationality precedence. It’s absolutely okay for anyone challenge my results, but if you disagree from the religious standpoint, it helps nothing.

Fans, spectators support or cheer for someone other than the others. There must be some reasons. That’s the starting point of reasoning. If you are totally blinded here, and insisting the world is unknown, then please stop here, you cannot understand any further beyond this point.

The reasons, in my opinion should be any combination of three in the following order:

1: Self identification and redemption of self esteem
2: Economical advantages
3: Affection

There is no no-brainer support someone without any reason. Race and ethnicity, other than nationality, are the cheapest way for people recognize themselves through their idol. People tend to have delusions about their idol, tend to imagine the success of their own.

If you deny all what I said, there is no surprise at all, because they are sub-conscious, which you cannot control. You even don’t know where and how your adrenal gland drives you to.

Jagdpanther

09-25-2009, 07:41 PM

..the 2nd round of this debate has ensued...:p

..yet, the members who originally lit up this debate (akhem, Jagdpanther and kuwichert) haven't been seen in this thread since...:confused:

................
I don't want my name to be included in list of banned members. And that's why I'll refrain from replying all posts about this matter from now on. ;)
..............

I'm a man of my word. ;)

badMania

09-25-2009, 08:12 PM

..race>nationality? nationality>race?..IMO, in the end, the majority of die hard INA badminton supporters in BC (whether they're INA-Chinese or non-INA-chinese) would support their players and could care less if the players are of Chinese ancestry or not. Of course, there will be a few INA BCers who will cheer exclusively for CHN or non-INA players, but i feel they're in the minority.

I hate to be involved in this debate. But the highlighted words perfectly sum up my feeling.

Who cares about whether our INA players are Chinese or non-Chinese....as long as they carry our flag, most of us are supporting them. Which is why we feel that fans like Ajaib and tommy_bun are exceptions since they are willing to support players from other countries above their nations :cool: But hey, they are free to support whoever they like :rolleyes:

In the current INA team, we can see many players who are not of Chinese ancestry but have done very well for INA to win the World Championships and All-England:
1. Markis Kido
2. Nova Widianto
3. Liliyana Natsir (half Chinese blood I believe)
4. Rexy Mainaky
5. Ricky Subagja
6. Icuk Sugiarto
7. Joko Suprianto
and the list continues....

I will think that it's totally absurd for INA fans (not fans living in INA but supporting other nations) of Chinese-descent who will support only players of Chinese-descent :cool: Which is why the reactions towards 2cents comments are very strong :cool:

Ajaib

09-25-2009, 08:22 PM

ok.. here is my final words here

First i wanna say thanks to support from everyone here...
for : 2cents ( i agree with all your comment here:), just becoz i had bad english,,, so i cannot say much here)), lcleing, my teammates Suetyan, tommy_bun, volcom, and others that i can't say it one by one,,, i really appreciate with your care about my Right to had my personal choice,,, again,,,,, this is good for me as long as i don't insult another players or another country,,, and FOR SURE : Me, AJAIB never insult other players or country ....
i just support my team,, and if that HURTS someone here so badly,,,, well i just can say SORRY DORRY BORRY but that's my RIGHT.....so,,, technically it must be no problem here....
whatever people here try to push me for not support China,, i will say: NO
i will support CHINA and i'm proud of that...

i decided not to post on this thread for few days just to avoid harsh debate from me,, i'm worried if i cannot control my self,,, so i decided to keep silent...( and of course i must study english coz i had bad english),,,,
and i think that it should be end here....

Thanks a lot and PLEASE LEARN TO RESPECT ANOTHER MEMBERS CHOICE TO SUPPORT WHOEVER HE/SHE WANT.:):):)

Jagdpanther

09-25-2009, 08:33 PM

..............
and FOR SURE : Me, AJAIB never insult other players or country ....
...................

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68189

Wahh. :rolleyes:

limsy

09-25-2009, 08:43 PM

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68189

Wahh. :rolleyes:

shhhhhhhh:cool:
600++ post is a bit hard to remember if someone did post A or didnt:p

badMania

09-25-2009, 08:46 PM

shhhhhhhh:cool:
600++ post is a bit hard to remember if someone did post A or didnt:p

LOL.....nice detective work I must admit :D A refreshing switch from the overall tone of this thread...

Ajaib

09-25-2009, 08:47 PM

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68189

Wahh. :rolleyes:
whewwww... better stop it dude......

it has been discuss by others and i just try to made the thread... u should read the reason why ADMIN closed that thread,,, and please dont drag this thread to other hot debate anymore....

and if u think that topics is not fact,,, u should search and look for the statistic... INDEED LCW is the first WR no.1 has record to lost from lowest rank players ever.... that's fact and not insult.....

Ajaib

09-25-2009, 08:49 PM

it seems that it's gona turn to be the thread of LCW again... SIGH.........
NO COMMENT !!!!!!

badMania

09-25-2009, 08:51 PM

To add to the above post:
"even if China playing their lowest rank player in their current team,, they can beat malaysia"

"i know the answer : becoz he is anti China fans....
so if you don't want to be corious again... just did like what i did :
I put Limsy on list of anti china Fans.. so if he never talk good about China player's then i understand what is the reason...."

huahhhh.........

Ajaib

09-25-2009, 08:52 PM

No Comment...........

limsy

09-25-2009, 08:58 PM

"i know the answer : becoz he is anti China fans....
so if you don't want to be corious again... just did like what i did :
I put Limsy on list of anti china Fans.. so if he never talk good about China player's then i understand what is the reason...."

huahhhh.........

shhhhhh
dont made people embarrasing;)
why not?
perharps wyh and wl is not chinese player:p
migrateD?:cool:

badadum

09-25-2009, 09:05 PM

That's the fundamental difference between you and me, that's the fundamental difference between religion and science.

Religion is always right for religious people, because it's a doctrine without reasoning. You have your doctrine and cannot find the relationships between facts, cannot find the patterns between information. Everything for you is either predesigned or unknown forever, so you cannot see any thing, regardless race, nationality. Therefore, there is no wonder for you foolishly view any logical activity as foolish.

My view is scientific, and what I was trying to do is to dig out the relationship and pattern hidden in this process. My search result is the finding of this race nationality precedence. It’s absolutely okay for anyone challenge my results, but if you disagree from the religious standpoint, it helps nothing.

But in this case, FACTS are indeed being presented to counter your argument. You either come up with other excuses or dismiss them together:
- When it was shown that white support Tiger, you said it's "fake"...
- When white comes in droves to support Kristi or the Michelles (both Kwan and Wie), you said girl's are different.....
- When it was pointed out that white American support the non-white De La Hoya against a white german opponent, you dismiss it by saying that's due to the boxing population....what the heck the difference between a white boxing fan and regular white then????
- When it was lay out to you that Indonesian Chinese supports the non chinese Indonesian like Taufik, Ricky/Rexy,etc against china's player, you said that's because indonesian chinese are only chinese in name only and already being converted to something else.....never mean the millions of Indonesian chinese who still practices the chinese tradition...probably even more than the younger generation in the mainland.
- And finally, when presented by the fact that Malaysian Chinese (who were not subjected to the same treatment and experience with their Indonesian counterpart) also support malaysian player vs china's player...you first comment that well, that's because the malaysian player were chinese as well. When fact was again shoved in your face about how the malaysian chinese also went to bat to support the non-chinese malaysian players against china's player (eg: Thomas Cup Final 1990)....you ignore the subject alltogether, and goes to this tangent about religion and science, etc,etc,etc...

And your counter to all of these? One match between Henman and Chang.... in which you claim Henman was supported by white Americans.... well, let me put the nail in your argument's coffin:
- 1989 French Open 4th round, Ivan Lendl (white non-american) vs Michael Chang, the very same Chang that you said white American didn't support.
- 1989 French Open Final...same situation.... Stefan Edberg (white non-american) vs Michael Chang.
If you're truly an ardent fan of Chang, you should already know who the American public support during both time.

If you deny all what I said, there is no surprise at all, because they are sub-conscious, which you cannot control. You even don’t know where and how your adrenal gland drives you to.I guess that makes perfect sense in your case. You can't control yourself and have to denies the fact because your so-called sub-consciousness and whatever chemicals in your glands, compelled you to do so. :rolleyes:

Ajaib

09-25-2009, 09:05 PM

if i said limsy is an anti china fan was an insult.... than i'm sorry...
it must be something wrong with my standart of "INSULT" mean :
for me INSULT is like saying someone is animal,, using bad words,, even attack someone about their phisiyc... that's insult in my mind...

so I should change my standart of "insult" mean...

sorry for all.....

Ajaib

09-25-2009, 09:11 PM

shhhhhh
dont made people embarrasing;)
why not?
perharps wyh and wl is not chinese player:p
migrateD?:cool:
embarassed??? no lah,,,,,, if i caught to rob money than i MUst be embarassed:pbut never on this thing
firstly i just think that it's just kind of camuflase from you....:D:D
but since u keep saying that u support WYH and WL,,, than i'm sorry...
and i hope that it's true :)

so now, i declare that limsy is not anti China fans,, and i erased u from that list....
:D:D:D:p:p:p

badadum

09-25-2009, 09:21 PM

wow....the truth finally comes out isn't it....I guess I should say I'm dissapointed...but somehow it doesn't really surprise me....

and if u think that topics is not fact,,, u should search and look for the statistic... INDEED LCW is the first WR no.1 has record to lost from lowest rank players ever.... that's fact and not insult.....

So...in this vocabulary of yours, calling someone the worst ever is not an insult???
And to make it worse, you're arguing this because he lost to a much lower ranked player....wow...just wow.... I failed to see how you can even make an argument for that in bahasa indonesia...nevermind english....

How bout this 2cents? Your case subject has shown he has no problem bashing his own race as long as they're not from the mainland. Looks like he's more loyal to the mainland than the race. :p

Ajaib

09-25-2009, 09:42 PM

wow....the truth finally comes out isn't it....I guess I should say I'm dissapointed...but somehow it doesn't really surprise me....

So...in this vocabulary of yours, calling someone the worst ever is not an insult???
And to make it worse, you're arguing this because he lost to a much lower ranked player....wow...just wow.... I failed to see how you can even make an argument for that in bahasa indonesia...nevermind english....

How bout this 2cents? Your case subject has shown he has no problem bashing his own race as long as they're not from the mainland. Looks like he's more loyal to the mainland than the race. :p
hey hey hey,, come on men...:p:p

i said he is the worst ever amongst other wr no.1 becoz he is the first ever wr no 1 to lost to player whom ranks outside 100... exactly at that time chen long rank 147...
no other wr no1 lost to player outside top100...
and due to this fact i said he has the worst record to losing to lower ranks among others no.1

it's not becoz of race.....:cool::cool:

it seems that so much misunderstanding when we use keyboard than use mouth...
same like 2cents said that Race is the factor but not only factor,,, and suddenly so much attack on him...

badadum

09-25-2009, 09:52 PM

i said he is the worst ever amongst other wr no.1 becoz he is the first ever wr no 1 to lost to player whom ranks outside 100... exactly at that time chen long rank 147...
no other wr no1 lost to player outside top100...
and due to this fact i said he's the worst record to losing to lower ranks among others no.1

So...you levy your verdict on LCW because he lost to Chen Long...WR#147...nevermind that WR#147 has the skills and could easily be in the top 40 or 50, had he been sent to enough tourney to collect points.....

And by that verdict, LCW is a much worse WR#1 than Roslin, who hold the WR#1 ranking for exactly 2 weeks! ... just because Roslin didn't lose to anyone in which their World Ranking is in the 100th.....for that 2 BRIEF weeks.

Like I said. Even if you use bahasa Indonesia to explain it, it'll still be futile since your logic is at best....non-existent.

kirana

09-25-2009, 09:58 PM

ok.. here is my final words here

as i don't insult another players or another country,,, and FOR SURE : Me, AJAIB never insult other players or country ....

What a joke!:(:mad:

Ajaib

09-25-2009, 10:02 PM

So...you levy your verdict on LCW because he lost to Chen Long...WR#147...nevermind that WR#147 has the skills and could easily be in the top 40 or 50, had he been sent to enough tourney to collect points.....

And by that verdict, LCW is a much worse WR#1 than Roslin, who hold the WR#1 ranking for exactly 2 weeks! ... just because Roslin didn't lose to anyone in which their World Ranking is in the 100th.....for that 2 BRIEF weeks.

Like I said. Even if you use bahasa Indonesia to explain it, it'll still be futile since your logic is at best....non-existent.

ok bro,,, there is so much point of few to said that someone is the worst ever wr.no1 among others wr no.1

on this case i used : record to lost to lowest rank players as the point of view,,, not the time for sitting as the wr.no1..

regardless how long they sitting at wr.no1,,, my point of view on that thread is losing to lowest rank...

and we cannot denied that LCW holds that record... can you ???

if we used another point of view,,, like ... the worst ever wr.no.1 to stay longer on that position,,, the answer is absolutely not LCW but Roslin....:p:D:cool:

so did if we used others point of view like bla bla bla..
ok????

Ajaib

09-25-2009, 10:04 PM

What a joke!:(:mad:
be cool please.. coz i said before that i should change my standart of "insult" meaning...look at post no #382
it's my fault, and i admit it...

badadum

09-25-2009, 10:30 PM

ok bro,,, there is so much point of few to said that someone is the worst ever wr.no1 among others wr no.1

on this case i used : record to lost to lowest rank players as the point of view,,, not the time for sitting as the wr.no1..

regardless how long they sitting at wr.no1,,, my point of view on that thread is losing to lowest rank...

and we cannot denied that LCW holds that record... can you ???

if we used another point of view,,, like ... the worst ever wr.no.1 to stay longer on that position,,, the answer is absolutely not LCW but Roslin....:p:D:cool:

so did if we used others point of view like bla bla bla..
ok????

So according to you, it's perfectly fine for me to say that LD is the worse WR#1 ever because he lost to PSH the most while being WR1..... that's just another point of view in your mind right??

You still can't see the flaw in your argument? Are you seriously that dense??? :confused:

Jagdpanther

09-25-2009, 11:45 PM

So according to you, it's perfectly fine for me to say that LD is the worse WR#1 ever because he lost to PSH the most while being WR1..... that's just another point of view in your mind right??

You still can't see the flaw in your argument? Are you seriously that dense??? :confused:
Be careful, including LD in your post may cause other 'participants' to join the fray. :p

Thanks God, at least the topic is back into badminton.
Just 2-3 pages back, I see Tim Henman, Tiger Woods, Uygurs, and even The Dalai Lama. :eek:

ctjcad

09-26-2009, 12:00 AM

*sigh*..

I'm a man of my word. ;)
..oh, there you are, you're back indeed....You've finally decided to show up. Yes, you are indeed a man of your word.:cool:

Now, mind explaining what you've created w/the recent uproar in this thread???:confused::o:(

Now, even badadum is getting it on with Ajaib..

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68189

Wahh. :rolleyes:
..yes, you brought this up and now look what is happening now...thank you, Jagdpanther!..:p

I quickly skimmed that thread and only saw Ajaib bringing out facts. Yes, the facts pointed out have a negative tone but it doesn't specifically point to LCW, as an individual; only his playing record. Every player will have a weakness and i don't see anything wrong in pointing those weaknesses in players.
Was it demeaning to LCW, as a person/individual? IMO, not really.

...
Thanks God, at least the topic is back into badminton.
Just 2-3 pages back, I see Tim Henman, Tiger Woods, Uygurs, and even The Dalai Lama. :eek:
..yes, we're back to topic but looks like you've started another firestorm...:o:(

kirana

09-26-2009, 02:23 AM

Ajaib[/I] bringing out facts. Yes, the facts pointed out have a negative tone but it doesn't specifically point to LCW, as an individual; only his playing record. Every player will have a weakness and i don't see anything wrong in pointing those weaknesses in players.
Was it demeaning to LCW, as a person/individual? IMO, not really.

:(

Yes, there is nothing wrong in pointing players' weaknesses, but the negative tone used by Ajaib made it wrong, that's why his thread was locked by Kwun;)

ctjcad

09-26-2009, 02:42 AM

kirana

09-26-2009, 02:48 AM

.."it's already been discussed to death"; there was no need to open up another similar thread when there is already another thread discussing he same thing/issue/topic..the negative tone is just a small part, don't really think "it was used by Ajaib made it wrong".

Well, you may think so and you are entitled to do so:cool:, but eventhough it was not locked when it's just started, it will be locked eventually :D That's what I think, you may not think so:D

ctjcad

09-26-2009, 03:00 AM

...i believe that was kwun's intention. Not so much because it sounded negative. I mean, think abt it, why would there be 2 threads, discussing the same issue/topic, going at the same time??..:confused:

volcom

09-26-2009, 07:21 AM

Be careful, including LD in your post may cause other 'participants' to join the fray. :p

Thanks God, at least the topic is back into badminton.
Just 2-3 pages back, I see Tim Henman, Tiger Woods, Uygurs, and even The Dalai Lama. :eek:

Just like bringing up negatives on Indonesian players especially TH.

limsy

09-26-2009, 11:01 AM

embarassed??? no lah,,,,,, if i caught to rob money than i MUst be embarassed:pbut never on this thing
firstly i just think that it's just kind of camuflase from you....:D:D
but since u keep saying that u support WYH and WL,,, than i'm sorry...
and i hope that it's true :)

so now, i declare that limsy is not anti China fans,, and i erased u from that list....
:D:D:D:p:p:p

if u fired a gun toward the wall
and u remove the bullet
the damage is still there:cool:
anyway
just relax
i am not ur opponent of debate or enemy:cool:

So...you levy your verdict on LCW because he lost to Chen Long...WR#147...nevermind that WR#147 has the skills and could easily be in the top 40 or 50, had he been sent to enough tourney to collect points.....

And by that verdict, LCW is a much worse WR#1 than Roslin, who hold the WR#1 ranking for exactly 2 weeks! ... just because Roslin didn't lose to anyone in which their World Ranking is in the 100th.....for that 2 BRIEF weeks.

Like I said. Even if you use bahasa Indonesia to explain it, it'll still be futile since your logic is at best....non-existent.

hmm
when MOST people laughing at bwf world ranking system
and someone using a fact of a player who ranked as 147 in the world is equal to the 147th best player in the world:confused:
kinda weird
so in this people theory,lindan is equal to 5th best player in the world?:eek: