Knee injury, again...

[LazyBuddy]

I posted my story about "twisted right knee" last Dec. Now, it happened again!

Last friday night, I did a "diving save" for the game winning point. Then, immediately I felt funny about my right knee. It's kinda a little bit tighten up. But I still managed to play for another 30 min. Then, 50 miles of driving to home.

When I went home, I saw just right to my knee cap (right leg), there seems some fluid/liquid like stuff built under the skin, and the knee cap area looks like a little "bum". After putting some icy hot stuff, it felt a little bit better these 2 days. Not as hurt as the 1st day, but still can feel the minor pain while walking, sitting or even laying in bed.

Guess I will take a week off something, before anything really serious happened like last time.

[bigredlemon]

At least nothing too serious happened this time. Are you doing any exercises to prevent injury? (if those exercises exist)

[JChen99]

LB, I suggest you take longer off than that, and only go bak to Badminton when ur 100% confident that ur knee has 100% healed. I had knee injuries before where the whole kneecap had moved (our of place) when I kneed something during a soccer game. I didn't notice until later when it was really painful to even move the knee. I re-injured it a while later and the second time it took forever to heal. I suggest you not take time off now and have it healed before you do any more major "diving shots" (I kno iz impressive and catches the ladies eyes :D) cuz better miss out for a bit now than miss out for years later ;)
just a thought

[LazyBuddy]

Hmmm... I will take 1 wk off first, and surely get a knee pad/brace when I go back. Seems not as serious as previous time, but I will still pay enough attention to it.

It's just sore and kinda minor pain at times and certain positions.

[Joseph]

Tsk tsk...you shouldnt be doing any diving shots. havent i told you before not to do them? So what will happen when you come to the bay area? You better be healed up by the time you get here. I dont wanna beat an injured guy, i rather beat you when your not injured :p

[jwu]

hey LB, man I am gone for couple of weeks and you go and hurt yourself again?!? take care of that knee, give it good proper rest. when it heals, do some strengthening exercises so it will less likely happen again.

[Loh]

Yah LB!

Take a rest, not a dive! Continue to apply the RICE treatment. But I think you should be OK. You are tough!

Nice to hear from your buddy, jwu. Hope he is getting along fine.

[Yodums]

Ouch dude. I'm surprised you weren't wearing a knee brace after the first injury.

[Chia]

That sucks, oh well on the bright side its only a week or two before you get back on the court. Your injury could be a lot worse ;)

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by jwu
hey LB, man I am gone for couple of weeks and you go and hurt yourself again?!? take care of that knee, give it good proper rest. when it heals, do some strengthening exercises so it will less likely happen again.

Hey, well come back...

I am fine, with a little bit minor pain left. I guess I won't play until this coming friday. If it's still kinda sore, maybe I will take another day or 2.

For strengthen exercises, I am riding bike these days. My friend bought those kinda "bike excerciser" (like the ones installed in gym) in his basement. I am having great fun (and some work out) there. heehhehehehe... Good excercises, when watching DVDs there.

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by Chia
Your injury could be a lot worse ;)

Finally, my mom found out all the "secret" when she saw me putting icy hot on my knee. She screamed at me, using exactly the same word (and a lot of extra).

She threaten me to "ground me" (plz, I am 24 already) if she sees something like this again.

Hmmm... maybe should print out SunJun's "knee cramping" case to her, and let her know how to be the champ... :o

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by Joseph
You better be healed up by the time you get here. I dont wanna beat an injured guy, i rather beat you when your not injured :p


Hey, I already have a good excuse if I lost 0-15 to u... :D

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by LazyBuddy
Hey, well come back...


Sorry.... I meant "welcome back"...

Man, maybe need to check my brain, too.

[Cheung]

LB, hate to say this but haven't you mentioned before about your relative large waist size in comparison to other badminton players?

Though I don;t doubt your ability, less weight can put less strain on the knee joint.

And I agree about wearing some elastic knee brace. The orthopaedic people tell me these braces don't help much, but if there is some psychological benefit, well, that still is better than nothing.

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by Cheung
LB, hate to say this but haven't you mentioned before about your relative large waist size in comparison to other badminton players?

Though I don;t doubt your ability, less weight can put less strain on the knee joint.



I see ur point, and I agree.

Even though, I kept certain amount of work out each week (badminton, basketball, biking, etc), due to improper eating habits (usually have dinner late due to overtime working, after work parttime-school, etc) I think I am over weight compare to most of ppl here. :D :(

Trying to lose more weight and get some leg strengthen training done (recently, add biking in my practice), and hope to reduce the chance of injuries.

[coops241180]

Some people just have weak knees/shoulders/elbows/ankles we all get injured sometimes - i've been putting up with weakened ankles for ages - and i'm only 21 - no amount of rest and exercise to strengthen them seems to have worked - it only takes an unlucky fall to undo all that work and put you back to square one.

make sure it's healed good buddy - my ankles are taking longer cos i went back on court too early, shame since i have two tournaments in april and i really wanted to get some hardcore training in :(

Neil

[LazyBuddy]

After 1 week of rest, the knee feels better. Not as painful as last friday, but still a little bit tighten and sore here and there.

Really feel like half way dead for staying home that long. I guess I will show up for practice tonight, and try to take it easy on myself. Maybe no competitive games, but just some "relax" drills with ppl.

Errrr... at least, no diving saves tonight. :D

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by Cheung
LB, hate to say this but haven't you mentioned before about your relative large waist size in comparison to other badminton players?

Though I don;t doubt your ability, less weight can put less strain on the knee joint.



After evaluating the past several weeks practice, I tend to agree with ur comment.

The past month or so, focus on improving my back court game, which involve a lot of footwork training and jump smashes. Guess my poor knee could not suddenly get used to the extra forces.

Will do more strengthen training as well, such as biking.

[RJCMGP]

Originally posted by LazyBuddy
After evaluating the past several weeks practice, I tend to agree with ur comment.

The past month or so, focus on improving my back court game, which involve a lot of footwork training and jump smashes. Guess my poor knee could not suddenly get used to the extra forces.

Will do more strengthen training as well, such as biking.

Biking, I can't wait for the snow to clear here.......ah i love biking. As for the knee, take it easy. Better to lose some time now than lose a lot of time later

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by RJCMGP
Biking, I can't wait for the snow to clear here.......ah i love biking. As for the knee, take it easy. Better to lose some time now than lose a lot of time later


I mean, those kinda of "Biking" in gym. My friend bought one and installed in his basement. Recently, I just ride that "bike" while watching movies with them. The real biking in New York city is way too dangerous.

Yeah, maybe I won't even go, if my friends don't want to go with me. Just in case, my leg falling off, need someone to drive me back. :D

[Loh]

Actually, I injured the area around my left knee years ago and nowadays I will wear a knee guard, sometimes on both legs, whenever I can to prevent a repetition of that awful incident. I will also wear an elbow guard on my right 'racket' hand to ward off Mr Tennis Elbow. Rather unsightly on the court, but as the saying goes "prevention is better than cure", although as Cheung has said, it could be psychological. The fact that a badminton friend had to be operated on not one, but both knees, is enough to remind me of this. Yes, he had put on too much weight and his knees just gave way with all the pounding on the court. This is compounded by the fact that he is getting old (as we all do each passing year) and somehow the muscles are no longer as strong and elastic than before.

[LazyBuddy]

Last friday's practice happened to be another "no show" for me.

Due to flu and sore knee, I decided to give myself another several days off but not pushing for it. So far, seems there's no more "fluid", and no more pain. However, still a little bit sore, and might felt somehow uncomfortable if kept one position for too long.

Wed. night will be my public club, I will try to take it easy. The "shoot out" will be this friday night.

[Cheung]

Originally posted by LazyBuddy


Due to flu and sore knee, I decided to give myself another several days off but not pushing for it. So far, seems there's no more "fluid", and no more pain. However, still a little bit sore, and might felt somehow uncomfortable if kept one position for too long.

Wed. night will be my public club, I will try to take it easy. The "shoot out" will be this friday night.

LB, I think you better not push yourself. You got somehting called an 'effusion' - fluid within the joint. I suspect there possibly is some injury in the knee. I missed you mentioning about the fluid before. Don't play the higher level standard badminton just yet.

If you are still getting problems, you'd better see an orthopaedic guy or physiotherapist for a diagnosis.

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by Cheung
LB, I think you better not push yourself. You got somehting called an 'effusion' - fluid within the joint. I suspect there possibly is some injury in the knee. I missed you mentioning about the fluid before. Don't play the higher level standard badminton just yet.


thanks for the advice.

Just double checked the schedule, seems friday's practice just been cancelled due to spring break. Therefore, guess I have a little bit more time to let my knee take a rest.

As for tomo's club, most ppl there are beginners. Guess I will just do some easy drills with them, and not going to join any competitive games. Just can't lying in bed everyday... :(

Ok, bring a knee pad, too. Definitely no "diving save" some weired moves for a while.

[Loh]

LB

Talking about 'diving' saves, I'm my own culprit as well. To make up for my lack of speed/footwork, I habitually try to save a tight drop shot when I am caught at the back closer to the baseline. Somehow I managed to escaped serious injury most times, mainly by doing a simple forward roll if needed. But of late I have had the misfortune of having my little 'pinky' finger cut open and bled near the tip. Last Saturday, it happened again and obviously I had to stop playing to stop the bleeding. I discovered that the "unusual" accident came about because my little finger was caught between the butt of my handle and the timber flooring when I tried to retrieve the shuttle from a low position, almost touching the floor. I think the force of the landing caused the butt end to cut into my pinky, which was had no place to escape because it was prevented from doing so by the hard floor surface.

I have been trying to find a solution. One way is not to dive, but this seems not a preferred option as in the heat of a rally, one tends to fight it out all the way. You can't let your partner down, can you LB? Another perhaps is to secure the pinky with a plasterand this I will do from now onwards when I enter the court.

[LazyBuddy]

Way back then, my "technique" on landing of diving save is very bad. I always end up directly kneeing on floor, which created huge impact on my knee cap (especially right knee). After one serious injury which kept me out of baddy for almost 1 month, I started to find a better way.

Now days, somehow I managed to land mostly on the outside muscle of thigh instead of knee. This way, the injury happened to me much less and less serious. Just this time, I think I put too much work on knees (15 hrs of competitive playing time that week) by practicing back court jump smash / clear. With already weaker support, landed hard on my knee once, and u all know the rest.

Yeah, the best way is to avoid this kinda of "diving". I will practice more on my footwork, and try to cut the chance to this kinda of playing by another factor or so.

[LazyBuddy]

Hmmm...

Just recieved another phone call from wed club - practice cancelled due to spring break.

Ok, 2 days, 2 calls, 2 clubs cancelled practice. Therefore, the earliest day I will be back on baddy action is next wed (other clubs had early posts about cancellations last wk).

Guess god just worries about my knee, and asked me to take several more days off.

:D

[jwu]

just get the proper rest man. don't go out and injure yourself further. especially in the recent freezing weather we are having here in the northeast, joint injuries are happening a lot around here. Just today, couple guys took themselves out of the night by spraining ankle and twisted knee from lack of proper stretching and warming up. anyway, make the most of your time off and rest, you can always come check out the Boston Open this weekend. :D

[LazyBuddy]

Got back into action last night.

2 hrs straight, the knee was 75% ok, but the game was a little bit off. Smashing getting improved as the past 2 months progress paid off, but the net shot was inconsistent, due to lack of footwork (still feel tight when chasing around). Completely ran out of gas in the last double game (lasted 35 min), therefore, even though came back from 2-7 to 14 tie, still lost 15-17.

Overall, not too bad, and prepare for some "real deal" tomo night.

[Cheung]

Good to hear that but no more diving saves of the shuttle.

I got some good advice before, "if you can't get it, just leave the shuttle and save the energy for later. In another point where you may have 50-50 chance of winning, that little extra energy you saved earlier may get you the point"

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by Cheung
Good to hear that but no more diving saves of the shuttle.

I got some good advice before, "if you can't get it, just leave the shuttle and save the energy for later. In another point where you may have 50-50 chance of winning, that little extra energy you saved earlier may get you the point"

Yeah, thnx a lot of the advice.

However, still managed 1 diving save last night... I knew I should not go for that, but just somehow went for it, without even getting permission from brain... :( :p

[LazyBuddy]

Last friday, back in "real" action. Got a lot of good games with ppl around, won some, lost some (when against the better ones, :( ). Even though, two of the games against the top pairs of the club, I lost badly (ok ok ok almost like blow out), still feel good, since I finally can RUN again. Maybe just a matter of time to pick up my control. Most important, my knee held on. For 3 hrs straight, did not really give me too much problem, just a little bit sore when I came back home.

However, my beloved "Kinetic ULX" broken at the 4 o'clock, when I hit it against my own leg. After almost 4 yrs of good service, I guess this one is now be part of the history. With a big crack on the frame, I cut the string right away, so, it still could be one piece for now. Put a nail on my wall, and officially "retired" my 1st high-end racket... :( ;)

[cooler]

Muscles to Blame for Women's Knee Injuries: Study
Fri May 9, 5:35 PM ET


By Linda Carroll

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Women who participate in jumping and pivoting sports, such as basketball, volleyball and soccer are eight times more likely to rupture a knee-stabilizing ligament than are men.

The reason women are more likely to injure the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) may be weakness in the muscles surrounding the knee, according to a new study.

Women who participated in jumping and pivoting sports had knee muscles that were weaker not only than those of men who played the same sports but also than knee muscles of women who participated in other sports, such as bicycling, crew and running, according to a study published in the Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery.

The results show that training for women who participate in sports that carry a higher risk of this type of knee injury may not be adequate, study co-author Dr. Edward M. Wojtys, said in an interview with Reuters Health.

Cruciate ligaments crisscross in the knee. The cruciate ligament located toward the front of the knee is the ACL. Athletes can injure or rupture the ACL by pivoting or changing direction rapidly, landing from a jump or slowing down from running.

For the new study, Wojtys and his colleagues looked at the ability of knee muscles to keep the joint stable in men and women who were of comparable size and weight.

"When you look at the forces that the knee joint sees during sports -- and in day-to-day living -- those forces are much higher than what the ligaments can withstand," Wojtys said. "So the only way ligaments can survive is if the muscles provide protection for them."

Wojtys and his colleagues compared 24 college athletes -- 12 women and 12 men -- who were competing in sports with a high risk of ACL injury to 28 other athletes -- 14 women and 14 men -- who were active in sports that carry a low risk of such injuries.

The researchers tested the ability of muscles to protect the knee by using a device that held the upper leg in place, but twisted the lower leg. Women who played high-risk sports did the worst on this test.

The study shows that training may need to be different from women than men, Wojtys said. And it's not just a matter of strengthening the muscles.

"You need to work on stuff like agility," Wojtys said. "You need to teach people how to engage and mobilize that protective strength at the right time.

"The great news is that we already have preliminary data showing that we can improve things with training programs."

SOURCE: Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery 2003;85-A:782-789.

[Gryp]

Hehe personally it really bugs me when ppl dive. It's not volleyball... seriously if u have to dive for something because it's so far from you .. let it go.

Yes diving sometimes look cool.. but not when you injure yourself :(

And actually it just looks silly making all that noise ...

HOWEVER! IF you're playing with friends.. lol it's damn funny making your friend dive for something and then roll over on his back .. lol

Now that's funny.. but also risky.

It's also no fun when you're all focused on your game and the guy in the court next to you decides to dive for something and make a big bang sound on the floor ... ugh.. painful ^^

Hehe anyways yeah.. save your body from injury and you'll probably be better off..

Just put it in perspective.

It's ONE POINT. >.<

Calvin

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by Gryp
Hehe personally it really bugs me when ppl dive. It's not volleyball... seriously if u have to dive for something because it's so far from you .. let it go.

Yes diving sometimes look cool.. but not when you injure yourself :(

And actually it just looks silly making all that noise ...

HOWEVER! IF you're playing with friends.. lol it's damn funny making your friend dive for something and then roll over on his back .. lol

Now that's funny.. but also risky.

It's also no fun when you're all focused on your game and the guy in the court next to you decides to dive for something and make a big bang sound on the floor ... ugh.. painful ^^

Hehe anyways yeah.. save your body from injury and you'll probably be better off..

Just put it in perspective.

It's ONE POINT. >.<

Calvin

Thanks for the suggestion, but can't really agree some of ur point. What do u mean by, "And actually it just looks silly making all that noise ..."??? or "It's not volleyball... seriously if u have to dive for something because it's so far from you .. let it go."???

It's very true some ppl I know just don't know what they are doing. They dive not for the save, but mostly for the "show off" part. They think that's cool and don't have proper "tech" (don't laugh) to protect themselves.

However, I don't think I do diving just for the reasons above - not just to be funny, or just to show off. I put my heart in when I compete (serious games), if I know I can have a good chance to get a save, I will go for it. Of course, I am not crazy enough to dive like 20+ times in a game something.

Diving is part of the game, even pros in "big stages" do it sometimes. Of course, not for every shot. Diving is same as some "crazy" leaping, stretching, etc. If we just let it go, and never try to get it, then, badminton will surely lose some %%% of its competitiveness.

I am not saying everyone who does not dive must treat this one as a backyard sports. Personally, I think if u can play well without all the risky moves, that could be even better. However, every sports have some risk involved. If u put ur heart in, and get the proper tech. about how to min. the risk, I don't think "diving" is consider as a brainless bully move.

And, plz... just a suggestion: don't use non-respectful words (like, silly...), to describe other ppl's playing style, just because u don't like it. :( ;)

[Joanne]

Gosh... when I saw this thread up again I thought LB injured his knee yet AGAIN! :rolleyes:

I've tried 'diving' before... man, it's painful on the knees!!! If I hadn't been desperate to save that shuttle I wouldn't have done it... but hey, I wasn't thinking clearly at that time. Now I think twice before I do it... let the shuttle die or go for it? :o But sometimes I can stretch my legs wide enough to reach it...

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by Joanne
Gosh... when I saw this thread up again I thought LB injured his knee yet AGAIN! :rolleyes:


Lol... thanks for the concern. Nah, not this time.

Way back then, I did not know how to do it properly. Several times, I did land on the knee cap, really hurting and dangerous. Once, when I was watching TV, they were talking about how the air borne ranger to protect themselves during landing. Then, I thought, hmmmm... maybe I can land on the side of my leg, instead of knee cap.

I tried it (not on purpose), and it really works. With better tech (if u call it) and knee pad, I think in some degree, I decreased the chance for diving. Of course, diving is not a very encouraged move, better just do it when u really have no chance, and really want to get that save.

BTW, 2 days ago, someone step on my big toe during the game. Hmmm... hurting.... :(

[Loh]

LB

I must confess to diving just to save seemingly impossible shots. It has been a part of my game for a long time. Not just for show but just my nature of trying hard not to give away a point so easily. As you have said, even the stars like Lin Dan and Xuanxie did it in their recent Japan Open encounter.

It is true that diving wrongly can do much damage to the limbs especially the knees because they are probably the parts that come into contact with the floor first. To break my fall, I will normally land on my left non-racket hand first. And if my forward momentum is to heavy, I will do a forward roll to reduce the impact. I normally wear knee guards on both legs.

However, after a few unfortunate incidents when I cut my pinky finger on my racket hand when I dived, I now use a plaster around the tip of my little finger to prevent
similar accidents from happening again. So far, it proved to be effective.

I now take greater precaution before I decide to dive. If I see no chance of retrieving the shot, I will just let it go. Not when there is a possibility that I can save the shot and not to dissappoint myself and my partner.

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by Loh


I now take greater precaution before I decide to dive. If I see no chance of retrieving the shot, I will just let it go. Not when there is a possibility that I can save the shot and not to dissappoint myself and my partner.

Agree.

As experience build up, I can quickly make a decision whether going for a shot or not. By the fact of better "landing", knee pad protection, and better decision making these days, the possibilities of risk is decreasing.

However, trying to learn some leaping and stretching from friends these days. Hopefully, this will further cut down the number of diving saves in the near future.

[Joanne]

Originally posted by LazyBuddy
Lol... thanks for the concern. Nah, not this time.

Way back then, I did not know how to do it properly. Several times, I did land on the knee cap, really hurting and dangerous. Once, when I was watching TV, they were talking about how the air borne ranger to protect themselves during landing. Then, I thought, hmmmm... maybe I can land on the side of my leg, instead of knee cap.

I tried it (not on purpose), and it really works. With better tech (if u call it) and knee pad, I think in some degree, I decreased the chance for diving. Of course, diving is not a very encouraged move, better just do it when u really have no chance, and really want to get that save.

BTW, 2 days ago, someone step on my big toe during the game. Hmmm... hurting.... :(

Lol... never tried it again though. Better tech or not... but amazingly sometimes I can open my legs wide enough and reach the shuttle... but then after that I'll fall down of course. Lol. :D

You sure seem to injure yourself a lot!!! I haven't been injured seriously in badminton before... or in any other type of sport...

[chenwei]

i do like to recommend a wondeful badminton net site to you :www.chinabadminton.com .you can ask any question about badminton in it , thire answers are all very professional , and of course there is no SARS in it

[Loh]

chenwei

The China Badminton website you recommended is in Chinese. What about those who don't read or write Chinese? Any other "good Chinese" sites in English?

[chenwei]

hi that site also get a English version , i remenber there were some person ask question in english, and the answer is in English too;)

[Derek S-H]

Hi Lazy!
Actually, you don't sound that lazy to me!
Right, I'm not here to criticise you: your playing style is your own personal preference. But, it sounds to me like you're still quite young and supple, so you can afford to risk your knees, hips, and back in this way.
However, this is not a good habit to havelong term. We lose suppleness and flexibility as we age and joints are notorious for losing their elasticity. They need to be protected as much as possible at all times as the failure rate can be catastrophic i.e. you injure yourself so badly that you have to give up the game entirely.
Also, I'm not entirely convinced of this "commitment" argument at all. The best players hardly seem to move as they read the game so well, and though diving may impress your playing partner, it's at what cost to you?
If you were my playing partner, I would ask you to calm down and take it easy on yourself. Try and focus your energies on learning to read the game better, ok?
You don't have to listen to a word I say, but just think about it?

Best Wishes
Derek.

[LazyBuddy]

Derek,

I agree with most of ur points, and very thankful for ur advice. It's very true that with careless bully moves at young age, we will have to suffer when we get aged. I've seen many example here and there, and really be aware about my own moves.

I know I won't totally give up all my "diving" (however, not to impress anyone, I play men's double most time, no girls around anyway, :D ) totally, but I've noticed that compare to my old days, the "frequency" is much less, most due to the following:

1. Better footwork, getting to positions faster than before. Many "dives" being converted into proper moves.

2. Less aggressive - don't want to have injuries.

3. Better tech. in diving, if have to. Less chance to hurt myself.


Of course, I will continue to work on my footwork, and hopefully further cut the chances for dangerous moves.