Is this serve legal?

[timeless]

This thought came to me while writing in JChen's thread about an altercation regarding illegal service.

Several players at my club use a particular service preparation method which I find very annoying and would consider it illegal. However, I'm not positive that I'm correct, so perhaps some of you can clear it up for me before I approach these players (if ever).

I will try to describe their method as clearly as possible and in order of execution...

Backhand service style

1. They pull their racquet back (and/or downwards).
2. With the non-racquet hand, place the shuttle on the racquet stringbed.
3. Together in unison they swiftly move both racquet and shuttle forward to their final service preparation position.
4. Pause and hope for a tell-tale reaction to their balk while they decide where to place their service.
5. Pull the racquet back, forward, and contact with the shuttle for actual service.

Since they place the shuttle on the stringbed so early in their preparation, and then move it together in unison, I think one could contest that their racquet was never moving towards the shuttle and thus their service had not started yet.

Personally, I feel once the racquet moves forward in the direction of the shuttle (regardless of whether the shuttle was moving at an uniform pace and distance with the racquet) that the service has begun. Thus stopping the racquet motion at any time before contacting the shuttle would be a fault.

[blckknght]

An excellent question, i think. that would really annoy me too... i look forward to hearing whether or not it is legal.
g

[Majin Legacy]

Well, I'm not going to say that this is pure fact, but isn't it true that the stringbed of the racket may only touch the bird once? Otherwise it would be a double hit, resulting in a fault?

[dlp]

Well the first foward movement of the servers racket head defines the start of the service and the serve must be in one foreward move so this sounds like an illegal serve.

[Derek S-H]

Hi!

I haven't had masses of coaching, but everyone I've ever spoken to has said that the service action should be one continuous movement.
I remember playing a match once and the guy I faced used to wave his racket at the shuttle before serving! I couldn't believe that no one in his club had said anything, and I actually ended up being virtually level with the net having rushed a serve that had yet to happen! I felt such a fool!
You have every right to say something - just because everyone is doing something it doesn't automatically make it right. Perhaps someone else will actually post the correct serving regulation that you can print and show to the people in your club.

Best Wishes
Derek.

[timeless]

Originally posted by Majin Legacy
Well, I'm not going to say that this is pure fact, but isn't it true that the stringbed of the racket may only touch the bird once? Otherwise it would be a double hit, resulting in a fault?

You're most likely right. However in this case, they don't necessarily have to actually touch the shuttle to the stringbed to pull off their deception.

[timeless]

Originally posted by Derek S-H
Hi!

I haven't had masses of coaching, but everyone I've ever spoken to has said that the service action should be one continuous movement.
I remember playing a match once and the guy I faced used to wave his racket at the shuttle before serving! I couldn't believe that no one in his club had said anything, and I actually ended up being virtually level with the net having rushed a serve that had yet to happen! I felt such a fool!
You have every right to say something - just because everyone is doing something it doesn't automatically make it right. Perhaps someone else will actually post the correct serving regulation that you can print and show to the people in your club.

Best Wishes
Derek.

The service laws can be found on the IBF website. However, the specific case I described seems to ride the border of legal and illegal. That's why I want to make certain what they are doing is illegal as to avoid potential altercation.

When I was first faced the players of said "dodgy" serves, I too twitched when I thought they were going to serve but actually didn't. Even though I had not physically moved, when they saw that I broke my focus they promptly flicked it over me. Sooooo bloody annoying.

[Winex West Can]

Depends on when you define the start of the serve.

This is really border line as the server could be getting ready (steps 1 to 4) and the actual start of serve is step 5. But the laws do state that the receiver has to be ready to receive so you can stall be not getting ready until step 4 is almost complete :D

Personally, in official tourneys where you have line judges, umpires, service judge, etc., I would think that the serve is considered illegal as law 9.4 states that the start of service is the forward movement of the racquet towards the shuttle (no mention of whether the shuttle has to be stationary or not).

Again, in non competative play, I wouldn't worry too much about it and even if you are playing a serious game, take it in stride and recognize that the player is probably not cheating intentionally although who knows :)

[timeless]

Originally posted by Winex West Can
Depends on when you define the start of the serve.

This is really border line as the server could be getting ready (steps 1 to 4) and the actual start of serve is step 5. But the laws do state that the receiver has to be ready to receive so you can stall be not getting ready until step 4 is almost complete :D


I actually tried doing that. You know what they did? Once they realized I wasn't ready, they dropped their hands and began their entire serve preparation process over again! I guess next time I'll just "unready" myself again too... keep the cycle going until I annoy them to hell too hahaha~ :p



Personally, in official tourneys where you have line judges, umpires, service judge, etc., I would think that the serve is considered illegal as law 9.4 states that the start of service is the forward movement of the racquet towards the shuttle (no mention of whether the shuttle has to be stationary or not).

Again, in non competative play, I wouldn't worry too much about it and even if you are playing a serious game, take it in stride and recognize that the player is probably not cheating intentionally although who knows :)

Well what's funny is that one particular person that does it seems to pride themself on the fact that they took lessons from a professional and thus everything they do is representative of that professional. As if that made them good by osmosis or association. What pissed me off was that this particular person actually poked fun of my wife and insulted her service technique. At the time, my wife was just learning to serve so she didn't really know the particulars aside from the general form. Luckily for this person, I wasn't present when this happened... :mad: :mad: :mad:
Hmmm... I'm actually going to meet up with the pro tonight, that this person took lessons from... I think I'll ask him if said serve is illegal or not. As I've taken lessons from the same pro, I certainly know he didn't teach this person to serve like that! ;)

[LazyBuddy]

Well, this one is really hard to argue. Agree with WWC, and I think it's really depend on which one is to be defined as "start / ready". Both sides will get into endless argument here and there.

However, I think in offical event, this move will most likely be considered as "illegal". Not just a penalty for "serve", but also possible for "delay of game", if they keep doing this even more than once.

[nSmash]

I've come across my fair share of players who are so proud of their
"winning" (i.e. illegal) serves. I think if there's one rule that should
be printed out with a big diagram and plastered on the wall of
every badminton gym, it should be the serve rule.

Which brings to mind... what if the server doesn't move the shuttle
or the racquet but sways his upper body back and forth like "ok
here's the serve... opps not yet... haha... now here i go..."? Is that
legal?

[timeless]

Originally posted by nSmash
I've come across my fair share of players who are so proud of their
"winning" (i.e. illegal) serves. I think if there's one rule that should
be printed out with a big diagram and plastered on the wall of
every badminton gym, it should be the serve rule.

Which brings to mind... what if the server doesn't move the shuttle
or the racquet but sways his upper body back and forth like "ok
here's the serve... opps not yet... haha... now here i go..."? Is that
legal?

HAHAHAHAHAHA~ :D
I've seen a lot of players do similar things too. So funny. Usually I'm more concerned with keeping my laughter in check than their service! :p

[bigredlemon]

Originally posted by timeless
When I was first faced the players of said "dodgy" serves, I too twitched when I thought they were going to serve but actually didn't. Even though I had not physically moved, when they saw that I broke my focus they promptly flicked it over me. Sooooo bloody annoying. I hear that.
A couple people I play with would sometimes start to serve, stop just before hitting the bird, and then restart to serve again. There's been times in which I've lost my balance and fell forward in anticipation. I never realized that was illegal until now...

but sometimes when I serve tip-toe, I lose my balance mid-serve and fallover the sides. (No jokes please :o) I then re-position myself to where I was and re-serve. From the definition then, what I did was technically illegal as well? That is, once I start serving I must finnish even if I lose my balance?

[Cheung]

For timeless' original question, I don't think it can be considered legal.

secondly, I use it as an opportunity to practice how I can 'adapt' to a different serve. For sure, the first couple of serves are bound to catch me out. But hopefully by the 3rd time, I'd have a pretty good idea of what's going on and negate his advantage.

The other variation is the person who serves quickly, just as you settle down into position. Ohh, I hate it when I get caught out like that. If you don't move and was looking at the opponent when serving, I doubt any umpire is going to call for a re-serve.

But it's a fair game and occasionally I use this tactic as well!!

[viver]

When playing, being it in tournaments or just club/community centers recreational play there is always bound to have players using and abusing the serves - illegally that is. I've played many players, and often the older ones serving at chest level. I've never complained especially against the older folks. Not sure if I will do the same when I reach their age.

When there are service judges, service laws are also interpreted according to their understanding. Where service stars is up to them. So my coach lay down, at that time the motions we had to go through when serving:
- position racquet for serve; racquet head below waist and wrist level;
- position shuttle for serving, do not touch the shuttle and do not move racquet;
- start serve, racquet moving forward motion ONLY.

Using the backhand serve, most of the times there's a backward motion and then a forward one to strike the shuttle. According to my coach (learning from his experience), in doing so, may result a fault called by the service judge. Even if you are certain you did not commit any fault, arguing the situation with the officials would only distract you from your game. In my opinion, the best way is to ensure that us do the serve the correct way. As for others, there's no way to change them unless they are willing to accept there's something they could improve.

[unregistered]

show them that u can still beat them no matter what service they do.... keep focused and concentrate hard..... Determination is what that leads to excellence.

[Neil Nicholls]

I would say that after step 2, server and receiver are in position (ref law 9.4)
The server has prepared racquet and shuttle.
Step 3 is the start of the service
Step 4 is where the fault occurs.

As already said
9.4 Once the players have taken their positions, the first forward movement of the server's racquet head shall be the start of the service.

It does not matter if the shuttle is stationary or moving
e.g. Singles high service: quite often players will hold the shuttle high in the air and drop it, and hit the service while the shuttle is falling. You could legally throw the shuttle up in the air and hit it while it was falling if you really wanted.


Cheung

the person who serves quickly, just as you settle down into position. Ohh, I hate it when I get caught out like that.

I hate that too. After being caught out a couple of times recently I have changed my receiving preparation. Get body into position and mind ready before raising the racquet arm. If they serve before the racquet is up, or before you finish getting your racquet into position, I think you can fairly claim that you were not ready.

Over time I hadn't noticed that I was holding my racquet up while getting into position.


Viver,
I've had people call my backhand service a sling when I've had no backswing. If you start with the shuttle very close to the racquet it is hard for the receiver to tell though. I prefer not to have the backswing because it's a clue for the receiver. If you're not careful you start doing larger backswings for flick serves than for short serves.

[viver]

Originally posted by Neil Nicholls

Viver,
I've had people call my backhand service a sling when I've had no backswing. If you start with the shuttle very close to the racquet it is hard for the receiver to tell though. I prefer not to have the backswing because it's a clue for the receiver. If you're not careful you start doing larger backswings for flick serves than for short serves.

Like someone already mentioned, the serve starts with the racquet moving forward. And nobody can call it fault if you did not touch the shuttle and your movement is clean and sharp. Nowadays we see players (doubles) when serving emphasize the shuttle head is the first point of contact. You can do a seach - there is a post by Steplantis?? and also Cheung where the backhand serve is described in detail.

I mentioned my coach's experience when practicing my serves. That small detail of not making the backward swing - when playing exhibition games in another country the Chinese doubles team lost the match as their serves were often faulted by the service judge. Reason was because of the backswing during service.

The players, when doing the serve, they positioned the shuttle, then the racquet and then the backswing and hit. The service judge interpreted that once you position the shuttle, one were ready to strike. The player when making the backswing, the official said it stopped to then make the forward motion - since the movement was not continuous it was a fault under the rules.

After this incident and avoiding possible trouble with the officials, they decided to work on their backhand serves without the backswing.

[badrad]

timeless - hadn't noticed but is it a relatively small group of players thats doing this service balk? Are these some of the players who play with you in the evenings? If it's in the average club game, you can always pull a distraction and put your hand up facing them until you are totally ready to take serve. You can even interrupt them as they are going through their ritual. Take it with a grain of salt both ways... It's just recreational badminton...

One of the ladies has a rather annoying habit to stand in a stone position holding her pose for 5 seconds upon placing the shuttle ready for service. one day mrs. badrad, little badrad and myself had a great laugh as she continued to do this serve after serve. we actually used our stopwatch function on our watches to time her, and bang on her service would be just under the 5 second mark. little badrad noticed that her lips were moving almost like she was counting down.

I don't often play with her since she also has other rather annoying tendecies other than her service. But the times I have played against her and she pulls this slow service antic - I will ask the score just about mid-way in her delay, forcing her to restart her counter. One time I did this to her three times, before she got rather pissed off. My partner laughed her ass off... For heaven's sakes - it's just recreational badminton - not the world cup! Have fun - drive them nuts, and if they don't like you - no great loss.

[Phil]

Timeless,

The servive you describe is in my mind perfectly fine. I have seen people doing it and I don't think it is a problem. It is the receiver's burden to not balk, such as when the server pulls the racquet head back to serve and pauses. Many people will balk at this, and it is perfectly legal. I think...

Phil

[dlp]

To pull the racket back and pause is fine. To make any forward move of the racket and then stop is illegal. Everyone should have experience of playing with a service umpire, when you've lost points simply by serving illegally you start to take notice. People must stand up for the rules in the absence of umpires, many people gain unfair advantage purely through ignorance.

[timeless]

Originally posted by badrad
timeless - hadn't noticed but is it a relatively small group of players thats doing this service balk? Are these some of the players who play with you in the evenings? If it's in the average club game, you can always pull a distraction and put your hand up facing them until you are totally ready to take serve. You can even interrupt them as they are going through their ritual. Take it with a grain of salt both ways... It's just recreational badminton...

Yes, this particular service balk is only done by a handful of players. It didn't really bother me until one of them made it somewhat personal. I agree that "putting up the hand" (kinda like "talk to the hand" heheh :p) is the best way to handle players who try to gain illegal service advantages. I actually used it extensively at tonights tournament when I wanted to make sure no one served while I wasn't ready. BTW, I didn't see you there rooting your daughter on!.



One of the ladies has a rather annoying habit to stand in a stone position holding her pose for 5 seconds upon placing the shuttle ready for service. one day mrs. badrad, little badrad and myself had a great laugh as she continued to do this serve after serve. we actually used our stopwatch function on our watches to time her, and bang on her service would be just under the 5 second mark. little badrad noticed that her lips were moving almost like she was counting down.

I don't often play with her since she also has other rather annoying tendecies other than her service. But the times I have played against her and she pulls this slow service antic - I will ask the score just about mid-way in her delay, forcing her to restart her counter. One time I did this to her three times, before she got rather pissed off. My partner laughed her ass off... For heaven's sakes - it's just recreational badminton - not the world cup! Have fun - drive them nuts, and if they don't like you - no great loss.

Oh gosh I think I know who you're talking about. If it's the same person, then holy smokes, is her serve EVER ANNOYING! A lot of other members also eluded to the fact that her personality in general was also very annoying :p.

I guess being relatively "new" to the club I expected the members, whom I thought were higher skilled than the average recreational player, would not need to stoop to using annoying tactics to gain an edge. I was very wrong :p. But as you said, I'm learning to deal with them by laughing at their antics and turning the tables around on them. I just find it really wild though how "out there" some people are. They do and say things that make you wonder, "What the hell were they thinking?!?!" :p.

[Derek S-H]

Am I just stupid?
I don't think I have ever seen anyone not move their racket back then forward when serving backhand. If I were to suggest to the people at the clubs I play at that their serve is technically illegal, they would look at me as though I had gone mad!
Can someone clarify this please?

Thanks
Derek.

[timeless]

Originally posted by bigredlemon
but sometimes when I serve tip-toe, I lose my balance mid-serve and fallover the sides. (No jokes please :o) I then re-position myself to where I was and re-serve. From the definition then, what I did was technically illegal as well? That is, once I start serving I must finnish even if I lose my balance?

I think if you lost your balance and took a step while you were just poised but hadn't moved your racquet toward the shuttle yet, then it might be okay, although a judge might consider it a delay of game or something. Ultimately, I think it would greatly depend on the situation. However, if you lost your balance and stopped your serve in mid-swing then to my knowledge it would be a service fault. Similar to missing the shuttle (during service) entirely and letting it drop to the floor. I used to think that was a "let" but I believe it's actually a service fault. Again, if you lost your balance before being poised to actually begin your service swing then it could be considered no different than walking up to the T junction and tripping and falling on your face. Not a service fault but do it too often and it would be annoying heheh :p.

[dlp]

Derek, I don't think anyone has suggested you can't move the racket back then forward. What is illegal is to move the racket forward, stop and then forward again. I.e. once the server is in position the first foreward move of the racket commences the serve and it must be in a single move forwards

[timeless]

Originally posted by Derek S-H
Am I just stupid?
I don't think I have ever seen anyone not move their racket back then forward when serving backhand. If I were to suggest to the people at the clubs I play at that their serve is technically illegal, they would look at me as though I had gone mad!
Can someone clarify this please?

Thanks
Derek.

I think you read it right but might be missing some of the background interpretation. Here's 2 examples which will hopefully clear up what people mean when they've been referring to the legal & illegal backswing of the backhand serve.

Legal:
1. Place/poise your racquet in your serve "ready position". Ie. Where you want to begin your serve from, with or without a backswing.
2. Place the shuttle somewhere infront/ahead of your racquet to be ready to be struck by your serve.
3. Once racquet, then shuttle, are in place, you begin your service stroke by either backswing and then forward, or just forward, and contact the shuttle.

Illegal:
1. Place the shuttle somewhere infront/ahead of your racquet to be ready to be struck by your serve.
2. Poise your racquet toward the shuttle in your service "ready position". Ie. Where you want to begin your serve from, with or without a backswing.
3. Once shuttle, then racquet, are in place, you begin your service by either backswing and then forward, or just forward, and contact the shuttle.

What makes the service illegal in the 2nd example is the order in which the service preparation is executed. Holding out the shuttle first and then moving your racquet towards it is considered your serve, whether or not you strike the shuttle. Even if you make a nice pause so that your opponents are surely not to be tricked doesn't make this service balk legal. Any initial forward motion of the racquet to the shuttle must continue to strike the shuttle. Failure to do so is a service fault. I believe the illegal backswing people are referring to is what service judges use to explain this fault to players that commit this particular service fault. This is exactly why almost everyone agrees that the service I originally described is illegal. Hope that clears it up a bit.

[Derek S-H]

Thanks dlp.

However, I draw your attention to Viver's post earlier in this thread. He/She states that the racket must have a forward movement only from the start position.
I am just stupid! Further clarification needed please!

Thanks
Derek.

[dlp]

Derek, I see your point, that post is confusing, of course from the start position you will take the racket back and then forward, the fault can only occur if you move the racket forwards to the shuttle as you present them and then go back and forward again.

[Winex West Can]

Originally posted by Derek S-H
Thanks dlp.

However, I draw your attention to Viver's post earlier in this thread. He/She states that the racket must have a forward movement only from the start position.
I am just stupid! Further clarification needed please!

Thanks
Derek.

Derek/dlp,
I think Viver was referring to forward movement of racquet only at start of serve NOT start position. The first forward movement of your racquet towards the shuttle is considered to be the start of your serve.

So, if you start with shuttle in front of your racquet and then move your racquet head back and start forward (this is the start of your serve) towards the shuttle.

[Winex West Can]

Originally posted by timeless
What pissed me off was that this particular person actually poked fun of my wife and insulted her service technique. At the time, my wife was just learning to serve so she didn't really know the particulars aside from the general form. Luckily for this person, I wasn't present when this happened... :mad: :mad: :mad:


Best way to get back at the fellow is to play against him and crush him totally!!!

Frankly, given all the various times and people that I played with/against, I have given on noticing illegal serves unless they are glaringly obvious. The games are all in recreational settings so it really doesn't matter unless the players themselves start to make a big deal out of it.

There is one guy (older guy who apparently used to play on the HK National team (I heard) from eons ago) who is so full of himself that he kept on giving advice whether you want it or not. He even ended up telling some of the lady players that he played against that he "serves high to them because they are female knowing that females have weak smashes". I personally don't like playing with him but enjoy playing AGAINST him in trying to knock him on his butt. :)

[timeless]

WWC,

I know what you mean... there are quite a few players I don't want to play with but don't mind playing against :p. I think badminton, being such a technical sport, with so many styles of doing the same shots, makes it just a hay-day for people to be opinionated and annoying hahaha :p. In all the other sports I've played, I've never met so many annoying participants, but in most sports there seems to be a limited number, and more universal, ways to do the required techniques. The only other sport I've played where I've encountered many different opinions on technique styles was in martial arts. But perhaps the universal code of ethics in martial arts saves it from developing as many annoying egos as there seem to be in badminton. Don't get me wrong though, there are a ton of ego maniacs in the martial art world as well... from my experience, there just seem to be more among the common participants in the world of badminton :p. Anyway, I'm straying from the original topic. I haven't had a chance to ask Darryl yet but from everyone elses perspectives it seems that the serve in question is illegal.

[viver]

Originally posted by Winex West Can
Derek/dlp,
I think Viver was referring to forward movement of racquet only at start of serve NOT start position. The first forward movement of your racquet towards the shuttle is considered to be the start of your serve.

So, if you start with shuttle in front of your racquet and then move your racquet head back and start forward (this is the start of your serve) towards the shuttle.

Thanks WWC.

[viver]

Originally posted by Derek S-H
Thanks dlp.

However, I draw your attention to Viver's post earlier in this thread. He/She states that the racket must have a forward movement only from the start position.
I am just stupid! Further clarification needed please!

Thanks
Derek.

Apologize to cause you confusion. Please note as WWC has described:
- server places shuttle in position;
- positions racquet moving towards the shuttle (no intention to serve from the server);
- stop the racquet close to the shuttle;
- backward swing and then forward to serve.

This is a situation where the service judge can call fault.

What I mention about the Chinese team, it was from the experience learned in an international exhibition game. The doubles team were faulted for making the backward swing when serving. According to my coach the serve should be legal.

In order to avoid discussions with the officials (you never know how service judge interpret the rules) it was then decided that when using backhand serve, do not make the back swing. Again, they don't do the back swing just to avoid trouble with the service judge.

[graphite]

This stuff is commonly done by the people here in my club:

when they serve by backhand,

1.) they bring the racquet up together with the shuttle (shuttle being held by non-racquet hand) (shuttle and racquet/stringbed is in contact)

2.) they then bring the racquet back while still holding the shuttle stationary

3.) then they move the racquet forward to hit the shuttle

IS this serve LEGAL? what if the scenario is the same exept the shuttle is not in contact with the racquet/stringbed?

NOTE: the player that performs this serve does not pause between step two and three but does it in a continuous way.

[timeless]

Originally posted by graphite
This stuff is commonly done by the people here in my club:

when they serve by backhand,

1.) they bring the racquet up together with the shuttle (shuttle being held by non-racquet hand) (shuttle and racquet/stringbed is in contact)

2.) they then bring the racquet back while still holding the shuttle stationary

3.) then they move the racquet forward to hit the shuttle

IS this serve LEGAL? what if the scenario is the same exept the shuttle is not in contact with the racquet/stringbed?

NOTE: the player that performs this serve does not pause between step two and three but does it in a continuous way.

If I have understood the scenario you've described correctly, it's exactly the same serve that I was questioning. I've been informed that such a service method is illegal. Bringing the racquet up with the shuttle is considered a forward racquet motion in the direction of the shuttle. Thus you cannot stop this motion before striking the shuttle or it is a service fault. The fault occurs between the transition of step 1 and 2.

A lot of players seem to believe there is nothing wrong with this because they always stop, pause, and then pull the racquet back to begin their actual serve. They believe because they always perform this ritual balk that it can't be considered an illegal feint. However, if such a serve was allowed, there would be nothing stopping players from ever not performing their ritual balk, and just continue on from bringing their racquet up with the shuttle straight into a serve (no pulling the racquet back). Thus they could choose to feint a serve by stopping and bringing their racquet back, or just bring their racquet up into a quick serve. Can you imagine the deceptions you could pull off on every serve!

To correct this illegal service is quite easy on the part of the server. They must bring their racquet up without the shuttle in front of it, and then stop and hold the racquet where they wish. Then place/hold the shuttle in front of their racquet. Then at this point they may either swing straight forward and contact the shuttle, or they can bring the racquet back and then forward into the shuttle. I was told this was the only way the backswing of the backhand serve would be legal because it would be clear that there was no intention of starting a service when bringing the racquet initially up/forward (because there was no shuttle held in front of it to hit).

[dlp]

Since there seems to be some confusion over this still have a look at badders.com
http://www.badders.com/asktheumpire/?seshid=

If I can quote from their umpire.....


The illegal way to execute this particular service would be to bring the shuttle into position first followed by bringing the racket forward to meet the shuttle, then pull the racket back.

The legal way to execute this service is to bring the racket forward into the position from where you want to start pulling it back first, then place the shuttle in front of the racket and after that pull the racket back.

The first action sequence is illegal, because bringing the racket forward towards a shuttle wich is in position, would mean that the service has started. Consequently this forward movement of the racket in this situation may not be discontinued. With the second action sequence that problem does not occur.

Check it out an badders

[graphite]

Thanks timeless and dlp! I misunderstood your previous posts... ehehe. :)

[Derek S-H]

I think I finally understand this!
The sequence is: Racket, Shuttle, Serve. And not Shuttle, Racket, Serve. Hooray!
I am playing Badminton tomorrow night and will be checking on the sequence from other players as well as myself. Thank you to everyone who has written on this thread, it has really made fascinating reading.

Best Wishes
Derek.

[timeless]

You're welcome :). Sorry if I wasn't very clear at first, this kind of thing is harder to explain with words. But sounds like we have gotten our questions answered, so happy legal serving to us all :D.

[Cheung]

Originally posted by Derek S-H
I think I finally understand this!
The sequence is: Racket, Shuttle, Serve. And not Shuttle, Racket, Serve. Hooray!


Yes!!This sequence that gives least amount of ambiguity:)

[Winex West Can]

...since it is about illegal serve.

I had just finished watching the ladies doubles between Denmark/Japan and Riki Olsen's serve was shown close-up a number of times.

She would hold out the shuttle and then move her racquet to the shuttle and then draw back and forward to hit the shuttle. Now, wouldn't that be considered illegal? Granted that there was a momentary pause before she drew the racquet back.

Also, in the same match, one of the Japanese ladies was called for a receiver fault meaning that she moved before the serve start (which caused some confusion amongst all four players).

[timeless]

Definitely illegal. I think a lot of service judges don't quite do their job when it comes to international tournaments. Almost as if they let things slide because they assume the players all serve legally. And then other times I've seen service judges that seem to have it out for certain players during a match. Just doesn't seem consistent.