• A Discussion on the Problematic Growth of Badminton in the San Francisco Bay Area

    Better Means More Expensive - A Discussion on the Problematic Growth of Badminton in the San Francisco Bay Area



    Note: The following discussion and analysis include some common stereotypes that are (to my knowledge, at least) among the community here in the Bay Area. Please take note of this fact and try not to be offended when such references are made.



    It's really nice to see that there are more and more badminton centers available around the San Francisco Bay Area - it is an indication that the sport is indeed growing and expanding. However, is this growth in a good direction for the sake of badminton as a whole?

    I still remember an old article written by kwun here on these forums about how badminton is stuck in a vicious financial/popularity cycle.

    In light of all this, I cannot help but to think that the current direction in which badminton is developing towards here in the greater San Francisco Bay Area is wrong and is actually detrimental to the overall bigger picture of the sport's popularity and support.

    I have played badminton in the S.F. Bay Area for over 8 years now. I started in my freshman year in high school, and I have been actively playing and training ever since. I have gone to many badminton centers here in the Bay Area (including #1-3 of the ones listed below) and in China. I have also played through numerous racquets (Yonex, Yangyang, Wilson, Victor, etc). All in all, one could say that I have spent on badminton (racquets, shoes, memberships, shuttles, etc) what a normal college student would consider a fortune.

    As I look back to all of these spendings (mostly from my mom supporting me playing badminton), my passion for this sport stirs inside me to ask myself these questions...was all of this money worth it? For me? For badminton?

    Here in Fremont, CA, there are quite a few numbers of places to play badminton. To name them,

    1. A local community center (ICC) here in the Irvington district that charges a flat drop-in fee of $4 for roughly 2.5-3 hours of play - duration depending on which day of the week it is. Decent lighting and normal wood gym flooring.

    2. A recreational facility called City Beach with 8 badminton courts at a flat rate of $7 each drop-in. Slightly better flooring - but still wood. Mission San Jose High School used to come here for their training.

    3. United Badminton Club (UBC) - professional-quality mats - opened about 5 years ago - $7 each drop-in after peak hours. $5 during non-peak hours.

    4. California Badminton Academy (CBA) - recently opened - $8 evenings and $8.50 weekends are their regular prices after the initial opening promotion.

    If we simply step back and look at the list above, one emerging trend should become obvious: newer facilities = better = more expensive. But where do we stop? Let's take a closer look at #1-3 (since I have not been to #4 yet) of the above facilities and analyze how they have impacted the development of badminton here in Fremont, CA.

    Eight years ago, Irvington Community Center (ICC) was the place to go in Fremont for badminton. On weekend nights, the place would be packed with a vastly different array of people that ranged from under-13 youths to competitive high school players to older adults and seniors who simply played for recreation and fun. At this time, City Beach was the main training ground for Mission San Jose High School (mostly Asian) players who trained there each day out of season.

    Then United Badminton Club (UBC) opened up during my junior year (year 11) in high school. For over a year, the place was extremely popular and mostly packed both night and day by players of all levels from around the Bay Area - this was when their drop-in rate was a flat $7 regardless of time - and players were allowed to stay for as long as they wanted/lasted. ICC gradually became more empty on weekends.

    After about 2 years, things at UBC changed when Coach Liu Xiaomu took over the business from the initial owners. Gradually, the same people I have seen for over a year stopped going. Membership rates increased and pricing policies changed - players were only allowed to stay in the facility for the period in which they paid for (i.e. if you went in any time during non-peak hours, you are expected to leave at start of peak hours). More courts were also reserved for coaching even during peak hours - and the facility more or less became a training center for the UBC Elite Team. At the time of this writing, the website's introduction page is entirely in Chinese (with minor English navigations on top). It has been 5 years since the facility opened, and the rubber floorings are now detached, out of place, and dirty with shoe marks - with no signs of maintenance whatsoever.

    Around this time, newer and better maintained facilities such as Bay Badminton Center (BBC) opened as well. However, it seems that $7 is now the standard minimum for drop-in! In fact, BBC charges $8 per drop-in (although it is graceful about freedom of leaving and returning), and the newest California Badminton Academy (CBA) charges $8.50 on weekends.

    Okay, I'm really sorry to complain about pricing and to say this now...but I'm a college student, and I'm not rich enough to continue to play badminton like this - and neither are most people here in the Bay Area.

    Living in the Bay Area is expensive. To put things in perspective, the median household income in 2006-2008 for the San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland area was $76,476 according to the U.S. Census. To analyze the situation for 2009-2010, we need to take into account of increased taxes (on top of the regular income taxes), increased tuition fees for students, average mortage and rent toppling over $1500/month, and other living expenses. Putting all of this together, I resoundingly declare that it totally absurd to charge $8/drop-in if the main goal of the facilitiy owners is to actually promote the popularity of badminton!

    Yes, I do realize that huge sporting facilities require a hefty amount of money to maintain and that money has always been a problem for badminton. However, let's just step back and think about the underlining problems revolving the badminton financial-popularity cycle if we were to keep heading in the direction that we are now. Let's begin by asking the following:

    What would make the majority-basketball, football, or baseball-exposed general public to want to ever play badminton, an Asian-majority sport that requires an incredible amount of personal spending, and receives little mass/media recognition/sponsorship - if their favorite sport is already so popular to the extent that there are scouts seeking players out in addition to that sport looking good on a college application?

    I mean, really, colleges are practically paying those guys to play, and where does that leave us badminton players? We simply pay more and more in order to play at a better facility with better equipments and more coaching.

    And where does all of this money come from? The answer, if not already apparent, is that the money more or less strictly comes from the audience in which this development is focused towards: the already-enthusiastic Asian-majority badminton community. We can see this directly from UBC blatantly making their website Chinese-oriented with little focus on the larger English-speaking community in which badminton might be exposed to. Similarly, we can see the same pattern emerging in California Badminton Academy (CBA), with head coaches from China being involved in its opening publicity while promising quality training from professionals.

    If the badminton community's passions and desires are to truly make badminton popular through media, funding, and participation, then we need to consider two aspects of popularity: recognition-popularity and participation-popularity.

    Currently, the goal seems to develop the recognition-popularity of the sport here in the U.S. through Olympic and other international sporting recognitions by training and pushing our players until they are on par to compete with Chinese players and bring back the medals.

    However, it is equally important that we do not forget the necessity of a participation-popularity balance. But where is the open-ness and publicity to non-Asian/badminton sport enthusiasts that actually may be interested? Why are all the UBC's and CBA's badminton advertisement photos all of black-haired, yellow-skinned people? Are non-Asian/badminton folks meant to be stuck at ICC with no real understanding and instruction of the game? Oh, and before you even suggest it, please don't count those P.E. classes in high school where they supposedly "teach" people badminton - because as far as I know, I learned basket ball in 1st grade - and that was in China.

    It is also interesting to note that my psychology classes (both in high school and in college) taught me that if people see themselves in advertisements that they can relate to, they are more likely buy the product. And of course, I have never seen a single advertisement here in the Bay Area for badminton coaching (or anything that has to do with badminton, rather) where a non-Asian person was involved. Go figure - where's Peter Gade of Denmark when you need him?

    The situation of badminton's development in other parts of the United States might not be as bad as I had just described. However, because badminton is already arguably most popular here in the San Francisco Bay Area (and rest of Southern California) out of the entire United States, I believe that the arguments made here are indeed applicable in their strongest sense. Thus, in all seriousness, while this ethnic and cultural barrier might not be intentional, it is actually setting up badminton in a position that will be extremely difficult to backtrack from.

    In addition to what I have seen in the past 8 years with the ever-increasing prices of facilities, the propaganda-based advertisements and prices of the Li-Ning racquets due to the Chinese team, and the lack of support from (many high schools here are cancelling badminton due to budget cuts, etc) and outreach towards the non-Asian community are making the situation worse and more biased towards the rich Asian communities.

    Badminton is not an easy sport to pick up to begin with; the unique and delicate wrist movements are not usually involved in and developed from everyday activities. Combining this fact with expensive facility fees, equipments, and private coaching, then, the choice of whether or not to play badminton for the general non-badminton-enthusiasts is simply as straightforward as this: "Why even think about it? With $8, I can watch a movie instead!"

    In fact, even for us badminton-enthusiasts, we might as well add facilities and membership fees to the top of kwun's list of Badminton Central's Guide to Choosing Equipments!

    So, unless there is some kind of economic recession in badminton (apparently there is none even with a real economic recession throughout the country!), the prices are not going to drop, and the sport will remain stuck behind this narrow ethnic barrier here in the Bay Area, and badminton will still be forever stuck in its viscious popularity-financial cycle.

    To overcome this, a lot of economic and self sacrifices will need to be made from the racquet manufacturing industries, coaches, private facility managers, and us players around the world. We all have to ask ourselves: what do we want?

    For the coaches, private facility owners, and racquet makers...are you out there to use badminton as a tool to make money for your own gains, or do you truly support the sport and take careful consideration of every sale's impact on the community and the sport's publicity? For us players, are we simply going to tolerate the marketing schemes in place and not speak up? Or do we simply quit and not play anymore? I'm speaking up now, but I may have to quit anyway at this rate. What about you?

    I just know that I can only dream of a day when a new gym opens here in the U.S., and Peter Gade - along with Lin Dan - are the public spokesman figures.
    This article was originally published in forum thread: A Discussion on the Problematic Growth of Badminton in the San Francisco Bay Area started by MysticHLE View original post
    Comments 93 Comments
    1. canti's Avatar
      canti -
      entrance prices are pretty reasonable imo, except for the ones that charge 8$. Bintang and bbc are good prices at 5-6$ for students and 7 for adults. They also allow you to stay as long as you want with a great queing system. I mean as a high school student and no job i had trouble gathering 6$ a week to go play but i just picked up some quarters everyday till i got enough haha. As for coaching I think the prices are alittle farfetched. 140 a month for 1 hour lessons once a week i wish i could afford that. And when you add in the price of equipment your basically left with nothing as a college or high school student. However equpiment wise i have been able to save money. I wait until big closeout sales are in, or i shop online for the cheapest (real) rackets. Or you can even umpire for bay area open and they give you free stuff. All are easy ways to save money on equipment.
      Is badminton worth this cost? I've been paying and playing for 4 years. I believe it is.
    1. cooler's Avatar
      cooler -
      Quote Originally Posted by canti View Post
      entrance prices are pretty reasonable imo, except for the ones that charge 8$. Bintang and bbc are good prices at 5-6$ for students and 7 for adults. They also allow you to stay as long as you want with a great queing system. I mean as a high school student and no job i had trouble gathering 6$ a week to go play but i just picked up some quarters everyday till i got enough haha. As for coaching I think the prices are alittle farfetched. 140 a month for 1 hour lessons once a week i wish i could afford that. And when you add in the price of equipment your basically left with nothing as a college or high school student. However equpiment wise i have been able to save money. I wait until big closeout sales are in, or i shop online for the cheapest (real) rackets. Or you can even umpire for bay area open and they give you free stuff. All are easy ways to save money on equipment.
      Is badminton worth this cost? I've been paying and playing for 4 years. I believe it is.
      if u look back in 20 years, u'll be glad u did instead of blowing your money on an exotic car, or booze or some nigerian scams
    1. eeyore12345's Avatar
      eeyore12345 -
      haahahha. I totally agree to this. I think 5 bucks is ideal rate. Most of the time, we only play for 3-4 hours anyways.
    1. Blurry D's Avatar
      Blurry D -
      7 Bucks per hour is pretty good.. in malaysia it is at least RM 25 per hour on a weekday. with the assumption that it is dollar for dollar.
    1. Sevex's Avatar
      Sevex -
      $7 is expensive?! Come to the UK, where I live, unless you buy gym membership (only the most expensive option comes with free court hire) then you're looking at £8 an hour. Or roughly $12. After which the next group comes along and you'll have to leave (unless you're lucky).

      This makes joining a club an imperative (at say on average £60 a year, much better ), the only problem is they don't play singles. Could this be why the UK never produces decent singles players?

      With these prices juniors can't play unless part of a junior club (which are rare), being naturally sporty and getting into county teams fast or having badminton loving parents who encourage them to play. As a result a lot of local league teams are shutting down, as there are no mediocre players coming up from junior level, only county players.

      Where I went to school there was little in the way of inter school badminton, although at universities things are much better.

      I wonder if Badminton England's solutions will resolve these problems? I'm still not sure if enough if being done at junior level to encourage players. Senior level has improved recently with some events encouraging social players to move up to local league.

      I have to say that where I live badminton isn't dominated by Chinese or other Asian country players and neither do they separate themselves from the English speaking majority in any way. In fact sport is very good at integrating ethnic minorities into communities where they may otherwise feel out of place.

      Thanks for the very good article highlighting the problems facing badminton development in your area.
    1. extremenanopowe's Avatar
      extremenanopowe -
      Well, it coincides with inflation I guess. Free market will definitely push the price higher. I think the best racket should be 100usd max. Rediculous to charge more. Problem is sponsorship; the stars demand the price. Unless you can boycott those expensive one? Due to ego, people what to look like stars. So, there will still be supporters or someone who is rich enough to burn their money.
    1. cooler's Avatar
      cooler -
      Quote Originally Posted by Blurry D View Post
      7 Bucks per hour is pretty good.. in malaysia it is at least RM 25 per hour on a weekday. with the assumption that it is dollar for dollar.
      don't forget median income of Malaysians isn't close to 77,000 USD/year either...
    1. cooler's Avatar
      cooler -
      Quote Originally Posted by extremenanopowe View Post
      Well, it coincides with inflation I guess. Free market will definitely push the price higher. I think the best racket should be 100usd max. Rediculous to charge more. Problem is sponsorship; the stars demand the price. Unless you can boycott those expensive one? Due to ego, people what to look like stars. So, there will still be supporters or someone who is rich enough to burn their money.
      i think free market pushes price down not up, unless of course, u came from a subsidized or a distorted market
    1. raymond's Avatar
      raymond -
      A better facility charging for higher premium seems very normal to me. I'm actually not sure what all the complaints are about. I suppose places like ICC are multi-purpose. They can fit line-dancing, basketballs and badminton to fill the gym time. Most other dedicated badminton gym is, well, dedicated to badminton. They can't amortize their gym time as well.

      Also, for the financially strapped, they can stay with the more affordable choices. It's because of the price differential that keep these other options afloat.

      As for some schools/clubs only use Chinese, well, I guess we're talking about minority here only. Most of them do use English, and most offer coaches that can speak comprehensible English.

      You don't like black hair, yellow skin figures? But just look around the top scene, the dominating countries are all like that, except Denmark.
    1. MysticHLE's Avatar
      MysticHLE -
      The point of what I wrote isn't to compare prices between gyms/countries. It is also not focused towards the simple fact that advertisements are ethnically biased.

      The main point here is to illustrate that such current conditions in the badminton community here in the San Francisco Bay Area only serve as a detrimental factor of badminton development on the larger scale within mainstream United States/North America.
    1. druss's Avatar
      druss -
      I read through the entire article and it was fairly well written but making the comparison with more "popular" sports doesn't make much sense. To be honest, tennis, which has a much wider audience, still doesn't get that much funding either. Mind you the facilities (outdoor) are cheaper to build and maintain.

      Badminton, to those of us who play it, is a passion and will remain so in North America. You don't play badminton in NA for the prospects of financial gain because there literally is none. You have to be in the top 1% of the players in the world to even think of making a living off of playing badminton.

      The reason that basketball, baseball, football, hockey and even tennis and golf are so popular is because there is the prospect of huge financial gains if you get to the top. That is not the case with badminton.

      I admit that I am asian and going through school I was a member of the track, tennis and badminton teams. Tennis is about the only one that you could possibly make a living in.

      The other thing is that none of these businesses from racket manufacturers and badminton facilities do any of this for charity. Sure some of it may be over priced like high end Yonex and LiNing rackets, but we can't sustain a sport if the companies go out of business either. As a business, you charge what the market can bare. If they are still busy at whatever they are charging then there is no incentive to lower the rates... why would you?
    1. cooler's Avatar
      cooler -
      Quote Originally Posted by MysticHLE View Post
      The point of what I wrote isn't to compare prices between gyms/countries. It is also not focused towards the simple fact that advertisements are ethnically biased.

      The main point here is to illustrate that such current conditions in the badminton community here in the San Francisco Bay Area only serve as a detrimental factor of badminton development on the larger scale within mainstream United States/North America.
      i disagree. I think badminton in the US/NA is progressing, slow but progressing.
      Just because it isn't working out for you doesn't mean SF bay area badminton is bad for badminton development.
    1. kwun's Avatar
      kwun -
      Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
      i disagree. I think badminton in the US/NA is progressing, slow but progressing.
      Just because it isn't working out for you doesn't mean SF bay area badminton is bad for badminton development.
      i think he is also saying the same thing. he thinks it will progress faster with a different target audience.
    1. alexh's Avatar
      alexh -
      Just think of how much money some students spend going to movies or rock concerts, or even just hanging out in bars. $8 for a couple of hours doing something you enjoy? Sounds like a bargain to me.
    1. raymond's Avatar
      raymond -
      For the OP, maybe you can come up with at least one proposal of what you think you can do (if you've the resources) to help better promote badminton in US. You need to take into account realistically your cash flow also. Maybe then you'd realize it might not be that easy. Or maybe you'd actually propose something that could be adopted eventually.

      You mentioned about Peter Gade. Well, just how would this figure be used to help? I'm sure it's not impossible to invite him over to conduct a clinic, out of his busy professional schedule, though not sure at what price. And then what does this do to the other ethnic groups (or general public) that don't already know Peter Gade??

      As far as the complaints about pricing, I think to a certain extent that is a resolvable issue, if one is creative enough. The mentioned drop-in price is not the only way one can pay for the entry. You have lunch time price, multi-entry pass, monthly membership, annual membership, junior membership. I'm wondering if communities like ICC or others would offer all these packages. Just earlier, Bintang at SF offered annual membership of $200/year. Similar deal was offered by GGBC, and now in CBA. If you play often enough, you actually would save money as a result of these packages as opposed to paying drop-in at other places.

      If a student doesn't have the pocket money, maybe he/she can get "advance" from his parents, with promise of being a good kid/student? After all, the idea of borrowing money is not new (like in mortgage). If you still can't afford this, then just stay with the community centers and high schools, as virtually all of us did at one time before any dedicated gyms were developed. What's the problem?

      Also, you need to realize not everyone that starts a gym proclaims to promote the sport to the general public. Still, is that a problem? On the other hand, I think we're beginning to see more media involvement (with TV broadcast of local events, though still not frequent enough).
    1. eeyore12345's Avatar
      eeyore12345 -
      actually. I think he is saying that: We don't need that much gym. More gym = more money, diluted population and overall discourage people from playing.

      Pleasanton, ICC and even highschool open gym used to be packed because of less people. Now more gyms, everyone is playing somewhere else. Z badminton have like an average of 10 players max every night. Used to have like 30-50 people. UBC have way fewer people than before. And ICC and pleasanton. Same thing happened to them. He's saying the opening of gyms is spreading out the players and therefore, not as fun as before.


      Honestly... would you rather be at a gym where it's packed and everyone wants to play or be at a gym with about 4 or 5 other people around you.. or worse case.. only you and your buddy?
    1. raymond's Avatar
      raymond -
      Quote Originally Posted by eeyore12345 View Post
      Honestly... would you rather be at a gym where it's packed and everyone wants to play or be at a gym with about 4 or 5 other people around you.. or worse case.. only you and your buddy?
      Either way is not good. The situation is not just more gym, with more available play time. However, I think the case of having less people is more easily solvable than the former one when the gyms are jam-packed. Again, you just need more creativity - e.g. use B.F. to organize a group or join a group to play.

      Having lots of people really is not necessarily good, if most people there are not at your play level. When I go to a gym, I want to play, rather than to wait.
    1. cooler's Avatar
      cooler -
      u can see mystic's first post is kinda confusing, leading mix response of his message. We hear that cost is getting too high. Now i hear too many court facilties are no good, less packed, your regular groups have gone else where.

      basic demand and supply. econ 101.
      If there are too many courts (supply), u have a buyer's market. Players shouldn't complain about fees are too high.
      U have lots of choices. Now i hear about talk of the good old days, packed gyms but cheap. i rather pay a bit more and able to play close to non stop and get out than go to a cheap fee gym and spend most of time waiting. Time is money. Waiting cost me as well.

      u guys are lucky. u have lots of choices for the middle class. I have none here. I have here super high end and super low end courts, and both are still in very limited quantity.
    1. MysticHLE's Avatar
      MysticHLE -
      @raymond

      All of your points are valid.

      As for Peter Gade, I used him in a semi-joking manner to illustrate how he can actually add onto the diversity of badminton advertisement because of his nationality/skin color.

      The reason why I didn't exactly propose a solution or any kind of idea from my end is because I simply wanted to initiate some discussion/feedback/bring the issue to surface. I'm sure you'd agree that the issue of the sport's popularity is not just up to one person or a single entity to solve - and that's why I've tried to initiate some discussion/thinking with my post.

      @cooler

      You can stop acting cool preaching your basic Econ 101 concept. The post is not confusing if you follow it through and actually pay attention to my thesis in the second sentence of the first paragraph.

      To say this once again, I understand the underlining profit-driven marketing factors and push/pull forces that put the badminton economy in the state that it is in. But that is also a problem that affects the sport's popularity, isn't it?

      You can use some time to really read through and try to understand the post on its whole instead of being focused on one part and responding to it while ignoring everything else I have said here in this front page and in forums.

      -----------------------------------------------

      I realize that many of us can indeed currently afford badminton at its price, and the figures I've posted may actually be considered cheap to many of you from where you currently play.

      However, the entire point wasn't to compare how much we're paying here in the Bay Area to however much we should be expected to pay at a particular location; the point here is to distinguish the cost of facilities/advertisement/media of badminton compared to other popular sports/interests so we can better see why badminton perhaps isn't so popular like we want it to be.

      Sure, $8 for something we enjoy...for us badminton players who have the financial background to begin with and who have played this whole time...isn't so bad. But how would the $8 look to starters?

      For the average person who has never played either tennis or badminton before, if he/she were given a tennis racquet and badminton racquet of equivalent value, but without the facility fees, would he/she be more likely to play tennis or badminton? Economically under this instance, tennis is free. Badminton isn't.

      Likewise, for the average person, if a group of 6 friends of yours asked you to play football/basketball in the park with them, with only 1 ball already provided and no other equipment needed, versus even being provided a badminton racquet, but no facilities fee (again, the analogous equivalence to demonstrate the cost of facilities playing a role on decision-making), which is the average person likely to choose? Again, basketball/football would be free. Badminton isn't.

      I hope the above better illustrates my point on raising facilities fee (regardless of facility quality) impacting potential popularity of badminton for the non-badminton enthusiast.

      And the price is only ever on the increase from what we have seen over the years.

      The issue at hand here is not even a personal one, yet so many of you have been responding to it as such. I only used personal references and experiences to demonstrate a pattern and how other people my age or younger may think. Please, take a step back and try to consider it on a bigger scale from the point of view of a non-badminton enthusiast.

      kwun also understood and reiterated my point. Thank you.
    1. cooler's Avatar
      cooler -
      again, u sound naive and not in tune with reality.

      1. peter gade is a proprietory property, any joe blow clubs can't (legally) use his image for advertisement without compensation.

      2. football/basketball aren't free. U naively keep linking free or cheap sports to popularity of that sport. I already gave u many expensive sport are more popular than badminton. If u see people playing tag football or street basketball, then badminton is free too, it's call back yard badminton. Better yet, go to the park and play badminton with the footballers. U seem to want indoor courts with lines, high ceiling, good floors, good light, for free or else no badminton starters want to try badminton. There are plenty real examples that counter your argument. There are many more less well off youngsters in SE Asia and china but yet how come these countries have the best badminton pros? Their starters don't even complain playing with no shoes, steel racket and yet u whine and whine.

      3. u r whining because u see less and less low cost community and public gyms available while the private clubs expand. Do u know why? it's call wake up and smell the coffee. YOUR GOVERNMENT IS BROKE and IN DEBT, FEDERAL, STATE AND MUNICIPAL LEVELS. Those subsidized public facilities have to raise prices too or cancel session because they are getting less dough from the Terminator. U should thanks the private investors running those private clubs or else badminton in the US will goes downhill for sure. U r bashing things that are actually giving badminton a leg up.

      4. There were lots of cheap low costs facility in the US in the 70, 80, 90's . So where were your international grade american badminton players?
      Why badminton popularity gotten worst and worst? where are those starters?