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2 or 4 knots

Discussion in 'Badminton String' started by otterfun, Nov 4, 2007.

  1. otterfun

    otterfun Regular Member

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    Hi,
    I remember my stringer needed 2 knots on my Carbonex when I was a kid.

    Now, I notice there are 4 knots (Cross tie-off ??) in my racket. I read YY website and noticed that there are potentially 4 places on the racket (Other category for Carbonex and Muscle Power). Is this new ?

    Can stringing be done with 2 knots ?
    Any pros & cons for 2 Vs 4 knots ?
    Will it affect the even-ness of the string tension ?

    Any advise welcome.
     
  2. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    Do a search please by using the search function please. This topic has been widely discussed already. :)
     
  3. Dillon

    Dillon Regular Member

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    2 knots or 4 knots

    Hi all

    I'm fairly new to badminton - been only playing about 5 months, and I have some questions on stringing.

    Recently went to a shop here in Bangsar, Malaysia, and the stringger, old man with lots of experience (apparently has been stringing for 50 years), strings my racquets with 4 knots.

    For those who is wondering what 4 knots are, - he strings it vertical first (parallel to the grip), with an opening and closing knot (that's 2 knots) - and then he cuts the sting.

    Then he strings it horizontal (with another 2 knots), opening and closing.

    That is the 4 knots method.

    I asked him why - all he said is that this is a better way.
    Well, coming from an old chap with 50 years stringing experience, I take his word.

    Through my observation - when we buy racquest - they all come only with 2 knots.
    ie. the string is never cut in half, between horizontal and vertical.

    Im sure many of you out there only stings with 2 knots.


    So - my question is - would it be better to be using 2 knots or 4 knots ?

    Any of you here in KL, Malaysia been using 4 knots ? Please share your experience and feel.

    Thanks
    Dillon
     
  4. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    this has been discussed to death in the stringing technique forum. so much that no one ever mention it anymore.

    my take on it. it doesn't matter. 4 knots is faster. 2 knots works just as well.

    here are some prior threads:


    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php/47923-2-piece-vs-1-piece-stringing?highlight=knots

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php/102273-Stringing-Method?highlight=knots

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php/100897-Number-of-knots-on-durability-and-tension-hold-...?highlight=knots

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php/12301-2-Knots-and-4-Knots?highlight=knots
     
  5. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    most racket that we use do not come with strings.

    most shops that i know of who string rackets according to player's requests are stringing 4 knots these days.

    4 knots is also the standard pattern for Yonex.

    Gosen and Victor pattern calls for a special type of 2 knots stringing. but i have not seen anyone who uses that pattern regularly. even Victor distributor i know mostly just follow the Yonex 4 knot pattern.
     
  6. Dillon

    Dillon Regular Member

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    Thanks Kwun for sharing your thoughts. My apologies that this was discussed earlier, sorry did not go through deep enough in the threads.

    I guess I will leave it to my stringer to do what he does best :)
     
  7. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    being old doesn't mean he is doing it better.

    if he cut the string before weaving the mains (vertical), then he can weave the main much faster as he has shorter length to pull through on each weave.

    tell him that. ;)
     
  8. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    Didn't we do a 2 vs 4 knot comparison thread before? 2 knots is suitable if your machine is uber solid in a way that the frame doesn't widen after stringing the main. Therefore, we can keep the main = cross tension and hence two knots. On the other hand, the stringer get more options with the 4 knots method in terms of main/cross tension differential.
     
  9. Optiblue

    Optiblue Regular Member

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    4 knots is the way to go :)
     
  10. S.fusion

    S.fusion Regular Member

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    eerr.... I have a question for all the stringers.

    why stops at 4 knots, why not 8, 16 or even 32? dont mean to sound like an idiot, what I meant was why not tide a knots after a few verticals/horizontals.

    not only the racket will hold its tension better but also it would be easier to just repair the 1 short snapped 'compartment' than the whole lot which is more time consuming.
     
  11. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    Sorry, yeah, you do sound like idiot.

    1) for every tie off, you lost about 5~10% of tension on the knot.
    2) It takes extra time to tie knot.
    3) By doing so, there will be grommet with 3 strings share hole. And with a knot.
    4) You are to nutty...

     
  12. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    the string segments on the racket are not independent pieces. on a powershot the middle string along with the neighboring strings moves with it. if you tie them all off, then the characteristic will completely change.

    as for repair, after a string breaks, there will be an asymmetric uneven force at at the racket head. by putting in new strings that way it is not clear to me whether it can compensate for the deformation caused by the uneven force. seems rather dangerous to the integrity of the frame itself.

    it is more work and no clear benefit.
     
  13. S.fusion

    S.fusion Regular Member

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    oh.... i learnt something new today
    and yes, I admit on this occasion, I do sound like an idiot.
    actually, I am one!!
     
  14. S.fusion

    S.fusion Regular Member

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    Just for the sake of discussion1) If thts the case, can one compensate by increasing tension by said amount before tying?2) sure it will get better with practice3) ok, so let's get the manufacturer to change the racket design4) peanut butter is my favourite, so u r right.Kwun, I grant you tht the neighbouring strings will move too and to how it will change the feel and play, nobody knows because no one has tested it. Racket head deformation is more prone when there is a large area that has given way following a snapped string but when one refers to a smaller area as a result of multiple knots, I feel there is less uneven force. At the end of the day, my silly thought will hit a brick wall, no one is interested when there is potentially cut in the sale of racket strings.
     
  15. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    sounds like we need to do another experiment. :)

    any volunteers. we need more than one person to think about how to actually arrange the knots.

    i am not sure if this is doable with modern racket which has single string holes. there will be no where to put the knots.
     
  16. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    I had done string repairs before. The outcome is not so good. Most modern rackets have single string grommets. An attempt to have two strings in a grommet will quickly destroy the grommet. The resulting tension, even with more than 10% over tension, is not worth the extra time and effort. Also, the old strings get to be completely re-tensioned again in order to keep the frame in a state of evenness: imagine pulling out the old string and tighten each one to the reference tension.
     
  17. Fidget

    Fidget Regular Member

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    String repairs.... I can't fathom how it works!

    I was given a racket to string not long ago. It had obviously had several 'string repairs'. There were knots everywhere!! Even a knot on the outside of the frame in a sheep shank with an existing string. (Impressive, from a a former boy scout point of view.)
    I counted about ten separate knots. It would have taken CSI a month to figure out how it was all done.
     
  18. S.fusion

    S.fusion Regular Member

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    Yeah, something new for a change. experiment just for the love of this wonderful sport. I bet all you pro stringers get bore easily doing the same thing over n over. love u guys man.
     
  19. maa2003

    maa2003 Regular Member

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    looks like he started from edge-to-edge instead of mid-to-edge. if yes, then it is a big NO ...

    I've seen many stringers here did from edge-to-edge, either 2 knots or 4 knots, eventhough they have a powerful machine such as ES5Protech or clone of Exthree machine (similar to Victor for badminton only electric machine).

    talk to that uncle to see Mark Appleton video how to string 4-knots without pre-weave.

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php/100452-A(nother)-video?p=1721034#post1721034
     
    #19 maa2003, Oct 8, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2011
  20. moomoo

    moomoo Regular Member

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    Bottomline: 2 knots and pre-weave.

    I had dinner with Sidek family the other day, very insightful. However, one of the topics happened to be related to this. It was mentioned that 4 knots is usually done by tennis stringer and if your stringer does 4 and doesn't pre-weave, you're better cutting it and finding another stringer or even better buy your own machine and learn to do it properly :p

    There I saw a few broken rackets in a corner waiting to be returned (they are sponsored by Yonex anyways :p)
     

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