Thanks for visiting us!

Badminton Central is a free community for fans of badminton! If you find anything useful here please consider registering to see more content and get involved with our great community users, it takes less than 15 seconds! Everybody is welcome here.

Click here for a FREE account!

2013 Controversies at Korean Open - forced withdrawals

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by Thuan Keat, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    39,285
    Likes Received:
    552
    Occupation:
    BC Janitor
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA, USA
    we might have to play mixed doubles with you at the back!!!
     
  2. Borbor

    Borbor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    wouldn't have mattered in the case of Wong Wing Ki :p not in CL's side of the bracket :D But glad to see he's into the SF.
     
  3. dieter_spath

    dieter_spath Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    the moon
    In an interview, LYB said that they had tried many times to suggest what BWF needs to improve ( dont know if including less matches), but BWF never listened to even a little piece of advices from China. Even before the OG, many even talked about the danger for the group stage in some chinese media because it had proved its flaws in Sudiman Cup several years before, but there was not even slight punishment imposed on any players or groups at that time. I think that's why the WD players from 3 countries dared to do what they did in OG.

    after 2012 OG, many chinese players kept complaining about BWF's matches are over-dense, players have no interests to play at all. But what BWF said in an interview is that, they still think there are not so many matches for players and they won't give up any obligatory tournaments, even worse, it will probably fine more money for players who do not participate these tournaments even if they got injured. I suppose it officially deny the requests by China.

    Now, we see what happened? China did send their top players to the tournaments according to the rules, and then some withdraw without breaking any rules, BWF can't punish them. It's more like some kind of protests to force BWF re-consider its policy and rules.

    there is definitely no reasons for BWF not listen to some good or fair requests by China. Anyway, BWF needs China more than China needs BWF (only for OG, China needs BWF). If China really won't cooperate with BWF anymore, like the situation back to the 1970s, it may once again created its own federation along with some other countries or try to attract more elite players to play in CBSL , it would be a great danger to BWF and badminton itself
     
    #103 dieter_spath, Jan 11, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
  4. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    8,905
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Yes
    Location:
    Arrakis
    I for one would take any statement from LYB with a pinch of salt. I remember the British commentator (was it Gail Emms?) remarking that many of them, and officials from many other NAs had repeatedly warned BWF that the round-robin format was a disaster waiting to happen. Frankly, the timing of LYB's sudden emergence and announcements makes me suspicious as to his motives.

    Players from all around the world participated in as many tournaments as the CBA players did. We saw the odd withdrawal here and there, but nothing like this... this is clearly a ramping-up of a strategy. Will it prod BWF into action?

    2013 is important from the standpoint of gaining control of BWF. The AGM and elections are close at hand, Nominations are due soon; the nominations for the Athletes Commission is also up for grabs. What happens over the next 2-3 months may decide the direction of this game for at least the next 4 years.
     
  5. dieter_spath

    dieter_spath Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    the moon
    They may play as many tourments as CBA players, but most of them play far less matches than CBA players. That is the point. Last year, lin dan had played 52 matches, and li xuerui had played even 61 matches, wang yihan had played near fifty. Some Thailand players had participated all 12 SS, but the matches they played not even close to 40,. That's the difference, CBA players have more rights to complain than others
     
  6. laonong

    laonong Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    292
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    USA
    are you sure it's CBA ban BWF before 1980?

    I thought it's BWF ban CBA just like Olympic games? China only attended 1984 LA Olympics.

    I think it may be a good thing if BWF to ban CBA. Then LYB may lost govenment fund. He and other coaches and players may have to focus on CBSL and may be able to make badminton as a real professional sport before tennis gain market in China. Only China has the ability to make badminton a professional game.
     
  7. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    8,905
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Yes
    Location:
    Arrakis
    Last year was an exceptionally tough one for everyone, in particular for the CBA team, just because they were good enough to last until the final day, usually. I agree with your point, dieter_spath. However, you will find many other players have also been playing equally hard and often. If a player or official is complaining about an unfair rule, then I don't think one Association has "more rights to complain" than the other. That concept suggests entitlement. The over-riding issue should be "the rule is unfair to players" and "what are we going to do about it?"

    [I just deleted an entire paragraph here about something else but related! :D]

    But this is about the recent withdrawals and the (perceived) reasons behind them. I empathize with that. What I cannot countenance is that grown, powerful, intelligent and articulate people will not collaborate on the issues confronting them. And that tells me: narrow interests, parochial and nationalistic interests, and power-plays. When it's about all that, it cannot be about badminton anymore.
     
  8. dieter_spath

    dieter_spath Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    the moon
    I have to agree with you, cobalt. Every player has the same rights.

    Back to BWF, I think it should adopt or learn something from tennis, especially the ranking points system. It’s sure not perfect even in tennis, but at least better than what in badminton. In tennis, that system reflects, more or less, some principle more like “you play more, you get more; you are better than others, you get more”. In my opinion, a rules or system like that leaves less room for people like LYB, and CBA players to execute malpractices or withdraws.
     
  9. Fortune

    Fortune Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    27
    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Asia
    happy ending for ROW, include Malaysia of course. LCW or his team mates can win their first World Championships title for Malaysia in the absence of China's players. Pray hard for it, so Malaysia will have their national holiday just after the World Championships glory. LOL. for more than 35 years in international competition without a single WC title, no wonder if their fans has the wildest imagination :p:p:p
     
    #109 Fortune, Jan 12, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013
  10. Fortune

    Fortune Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    27
    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Asia
    Cai Yun / Fu Haifeng retired from 2012 BWS SS Finals. Wang Yihan injured since Denmark PSS in October, injured again and retired in HK SS, and missed the SS Finals. isthis called fake injury ?
     
  11. Fortune

    Fortune Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    27
    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Asia
    @ 2012 BWF Superseries Finals, Korean MD, WD, XD were retired / conceded walkover, but no thread opened to criticize about it. When China do similar things,,...
     
  12. shooting stroke

    shooting stroke Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    839
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    Professional / Badminton Coach
    Location:
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, Malaysia
    Hahaaaa...........a sure win combination. I and cheung at the back while kwun in front (boss very tall maaaa.......sure play like setiawan:p). I will now register us for the malaysia open
     
  13. ibelieveindevil

    ibelieveindevil Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    SG
    Why BWF just not have an extra group of medical professionals to certify if an injury is indeed true? there is also a need to harsher punishment USD5k is actually nothing much, especially some certain countries can easily paid for their players....

    why not post a ban, ban the player from entering next few months of tournaments, since they need to rest so much? force them to play the qulifying matches? deduct points from them?
     
    #113 ibelieveindevil, Jan 12, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013
  14. bad's fan

    bad's fan Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    in front of my lappie
    You know, as one good saying here in this forum, people are more likely targetting the trees that full with fruits. and the china team is sure one of that kind of tree. :D

    I'm very agree with this! it's indeed needed nowdays, one good, professional and capable medical team to certify an injured players. by that, the players that fakely injured can't do cheat anymore, and the players who are really injured when WDN (including chinese) can free from all the unimportant negative talkings consider their WDNs and retirements. :)
     
    #114 bad's fan, Jan 13, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  15. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    8,905
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Yes
    Location:
    Arrakis
    I don't think this is really feasible. The conditions under which a player can be allowed to withdraw are created to ensure that players can prevent possible injuries from getting worse or even career-threatening. This is the main reason why if a player complains or insists that he/she is feeling a pain in his/her abdomen or back or shoulder or knee or ankle, and if that presents a danger to the fitness of the player, a retirement/withdrawal is always justified.

    So then, it also presents a grey area. Officials (including medical officials) must take the player's word for the extent of pain or discomfort that the player feels at the time. If the officials insist on carrying on with play and if the player does experience a serious injury as a result, it can create a very serious situation which may escalate. Therefore, with the adage "prevention is better than cure" in mind the officials will allow the player to walk. After all, the professional player's health is of importance to the sport itself.

    There is in fact, a BWF-appointed medical professional present at all majors (not sure about GP/Internationals etc) but even this doctor's priority will be the wellness of the player, and his/her assessment of the condition is always guided by feedback obtained from the player.

    Any assessment procedure must be the same for all conditions. It would be impossible to have a battery of medical professionals run tests on the spot to assess the true fitness of the player. And can you imagine the uproar if after insisting the player is fit, if the player does get injured?

    So we follow the Honour system. We believe that human beings will not lie or fabricate or embellish the truth or twist the facts. Or at least, that our personal heroes would not! :D It works for the most part.

    Besides, USD 5K can still mean a lot of money for any player below the top-10/15 or from almost any country. What BWF is desperately trying to do, is enforce attendance. But they forgot to rationalize the calendar before doing that. There are just too many other events taking place during the year, the new Leagues, the regional tournaments, the list goes on...
     
  16. Borbor

    Borbor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    What are you going to do, have on-site MRI machines and have radiologists on site to certify that a player is indeed injured "enough" to not continue playing? LOL, yah I'd like to see how that'd fly.

    Has it ever crossed your mind that a sport's governing federation / body needs participants for it to have any meaning? Sure, they can implement this rule, but then if the top 4 / 5 countries don't participate at all and start their own cycle of tourneys, who do you think will lose out in the end? BWF or the rogue countries? :)

    When you consider China and Japan (just to name two) have their own domestic badminton leagues & competitions, add the cup matches (thomas / uber + sudi) on top of it, AND WC every two years PLUS the SSP & SS matches and you can already imagine the headache the countries have to go thru to schedule training, rest and competition for their athletes to ensure they stay healthy for as long as possible.

    This isn't just about the Chinese athletes, it's about all the athletes at the top of the pyramid. The further up you are, the more competitions you're expected to enter in this sport; and there comes a breaking point where you just have to stay screw it and not show up. CHN just gets the brunt of this criticism because they have a lot of players with a ranking high enough that must abide by this attendance rule.
     
  17. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    9,825
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    @Hollanti
    Except this $5000 is only for top ten players or "no longer but recently were top ten" players ;) ...
     
  18. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    16,326
    Likes Received:
    50
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    preventing a players entry to the next tournament is reasonable and feasible. After all, players need to be protected from themselves. If one is injured, it's not sensible to play in the next tournament a week later.
     
  19. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,067
    Likes Received:
    171
    Location:
    England
    You can't punish a player because of injuries, if someone injuries him/herself next week at the MO. are you going to ban him/her at the AE 2 months later?
     
  20. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    16,326
    Likes Received:
    50
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Firstly, it's not a punishment. Preventing the player from a tournament in the next two weeks would be protecting the player from injuring themselves at a tournament. Note, that is a deliberate word - protection from injuring themselves.

    And yes, i wasn't clear but a timeframe of say 2 weeks would be better than the next tournament. It's not perfect but it sounds reasonable. A player retiring with injury shouldn't be able to play in the following week because of the injury.
     

Share This Page