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4-point stringing machine question

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by registered, May 16, 2004.

  1. registered

    registered Regular Member

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    hi, i am interested in buying a stringing machine but i am worried about the racket deformation with just a 4 point mount, the machine i am interested in is this one. http://www.laserfibre.com/MS200_TT.html I have read other forums about 4 point stringing machine but most machines had the side supports (wings) but this machine is really a 5 point inside mount support. Is this safe for badminton? i am interested in this machine because of the constant pull feature without have the bar horizontal. And i am stringing for friends that play tennis and badminton, where as i lean more over to the badminton side. i plan to string around 24-25 pounds, but i will start at 22 pounds till i get more comfortable and naturally i will get up to 27~29 pounds as i go along. But will this mounting system be secure for high stringing tensions?? any opinions are welcome. thanks!!!
     
  2. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    The manufacturer's claim is misleading. It doesn't describe in sufficient detail about it's 5-point 4 inner point system at the head and throat. It misleadingly says that 6-point mounting systems are all of the type that come with 2 simple posts at the head and throat and 4 side supports that work only to prevent the frame from expanding outwards. The fact that a machine has a 2-point, or 4-point, or 6-point mounting system doesn't tell you the complete mounting system. It simply tells you the number of contact points the machine has with the racquet frame. What is important is the type of support each of these points will support the frame when strung vertically and horizontally. The supports the points provide, not the silly points per se, determine the quality of the mounting system.
    If you imagine your racquet frame to be flexible enough to bulge if you were to squeeze the frame with your hands, then the following explanation will give you a better understanding of frame support systems.
    Lets start with a 2-point system, which must have a minimum of 4 supports, 2 supports comprising upper and lower at the head and another 2 supports comprising upper and lower at the throat. It is called 2-points because the frame and machine have 2 contact points-the head and the throat. Actually this 2-points system has 4 supports, two at each point. This system is called a hold-down system because the frame is being held down on the machine by screw-down or clamp-down devices at the head and throat. Now let us mount your imaginery flexible racquet on this 2-points, 4-supports, hold-down system. If you start stringing the main strings (verticles) from the middle and outwards alternately on either side of the frame, you can visualize the flex or bulge of the frame. The frame will not show any sign of flex when you start stringing from the middle because the screw-down clamps at the head and throat prevent the frame from distorting. But as you go the the extreme sides of the frame, out of the range of the screw-down clamps, each strung string will squeeze your side outer frame outwards. To minimize this side frame outward bulge when stringing the mains, you should not continue stringing at grommet 10 after pulling at grommet 9. You should instead take the last pulled string at grommet 9 throat end and place it into grommet 12 at the throat end and continue it into grommet 11 at the head end and then tension it; pass the string over to grommet 10 at the head and down into grommet 10 at the throat, and then pull this last main string before knotting.
    The real problem for such 2-points 4-supports system comes when you start stringing the cross strings. If you start stringing the cross strings from the head and work towards the throat, you will notice your flexible racquet frame bulging towards the throat end as you string each successive cross string. The bulge would have been serious and probably disastrous if not for the already strung main strings that act as a counter-force against the pull from the cross strings. The danger comes when you are halfway through stringing the cross strings, because this is when most racquet breakages happen. It seldom happens to Yonex racquets despite their low recommended tension. Such mishaps do happen more often with other brands. You can however minimize this cross stringing bulge if you start your cross stringing from the middle.
    Yonex tournament stringers in Malaysia use such 2-points, 4-supports mounting systems, and they string all such racquets between 29 lbs to 36 lbs without any problem, that is only with Yonex racquets.
    Of course a 4-point 8-supports or a 6-point 12-supports system would be better, because the ones I describe are hold-down system with extra side supports. But they are slower.
    There are 6-points 10-supports non-holddown systems also. Such systems are called suspension system. There is also a 6-points 10-supports suspension system that prevents the frame from moving inwards (which most systems do not) as well as outwards on the 4 corners of the frame.
     
  3. registered

    registered Regular Member

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    thanks for your extentsive reply taneepak, i think i understood everything you just said. I've also read that since this machine is really similar to a 2 point mount that you could eliminate some distortions from stringing in the middle first. and yes i beleive there is no center throat mount but i guess that doesn't matter because most distorts start near the edges of the racket. Also i am only a yonex fan via rackets, so is this stringing machine recommended? thanks
     
  4. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    Can you give me a more detailed description of the mounting system of the machine? How do the supports hold the head and throat? How do the inner supports work? Are there any plastic inserts at the head or throat that align the supports? How much does it cost? Is it more expensive than the constant pull Eagnas machine EC-20 or EC-200? The EC-20 is a 2-points 4-supports hold-down system and the EC-200 is a 6-points 10-supports suspension system and both are constant-pull machines.
     
  5. registered

    registered Regular Member

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    The mounts on the machine are similar to the silent partner e.stringer cl, with the plastic peg's, there is 2 points in the throat at the 5 and 7 o'clock position, another at the 1 and 11 o'clock and the main center support at the 12 o'clock position. And to clamp it down there are 4 individual hooks that you tighten down at 4 individual corners instead of the screw down clamp. The machine is around 699 for the version i want because of the constant pull mechanism, and the double action clamp system. I don't like eagnas because i have heard REALLY horrible things about their technical support and it is a electronic machine, I solely believe that dropweights are far from superior to the lower end electronic tensioners. So i am willing to part out a bit more for technical support and warrenty. Plus i will be making a little bit of profit out of this by stringing my friends rackets too. thanks!
     
  6. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    The machine looks okay. Make sure you tighten the 4 hooks at the 11, 1, 5 and 7 o'clock well. The contact point against the inner side of the frame at the head is plastic, I presume. You have to be careful when adjusting this 12 o'clock support and not squeeze the frame. If the plastic is hard you might want to cushion it with a thin rubber strip, like something from a car's inner tube. Best of luck.
     
  7. registered

    registered Regular Member

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    yes yes all of the contact spots are all derlin with the hooks having plastic covers over them to protect it, thanks for all your help taneepark i will for sure post a review and mention that you helped in another post if i do get this! thanks.
     
  8. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    One last point : check if the machine can string badminton racquets without optional accessories or parts like clamps, mounting systems, etc. Remember, the size of a tennis racquet frame is bigger than a badminton frame.
     
  9. registered

    registered Regular Member

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    yep i emailed the company and they said it can do both because of the clamp they use it tight enough for badminton and tennis. Kind of hard to beleive but i also confirmed that with another person from the tennis forums that it can be done. It also comes with a badminton throat adapter. This is another reason why i would pay such a high price for this machine, the clamps works for both, constant pull, and portablilty. This machine just seemed like my perfect solution.
     
  10. registered

    registered Regular Member

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    Oh yeah one more thing, i had a friends friend~ that wanted to sell me a stringing machine but he overcharged me by quite a bit so i didn't take the offer, but when he showed it to me he had a little tool... it was like a minature bar weight with 2 little knubs on the side and i asked him what that was for... he said that the little tool had one fixed end, and one end with a nut. You would open the nut and thread the thin bar through the racket and then you would screw the nut back on... he said it acted like an extra support. I thought that was really neat! And from this discussion couldn't you use that small tool near the bottom half of the racket on the crosses to prevent distortion? Like when you said if you start the crosses from the top and work down you would get a buldge. So if i used that tool wouldn't it be more secure?
     
  11. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    Is this an improvised modification or an original machine part? Is it used across the racquet frame in the center? Does it block the grommet holes? Does it prevent just the outward bulge and not the inward bulge? Such modifications are usually made on 2-points hold-down systems to give them better support.
     
  12. registered

    registered Regular Member

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    um.... i'm not too sure because the machine's 20 years+ when he bought it so.. i guess it might be some old tech fad that never worked. but it actually goes through the grommet holes and you screw it on tight. it only prevents outward buldge because the knobs are on the outside held together by just the thick wire.
     
  13. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    If I were you I would like to test it for myself. I would suggest you take your badminton racquet along and ask the shop to mount your racquet and to use the glide clamp to see if it really does clamp on tightly. Better still, bring along an unstrung badminton racquet and 24" badminton string, and then ask the shop to mount the racquet and string the string vertically in the middle, grommet 1 on the left and grommet 1 on the right, and then use the clamp to clamp one string and pull and tension at 25 lbs the other end of the string. It is better to be safe than sorry.
     
  14. registered

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    couldn't i just put the clamps through a prestrung racket to see if it fits?
     
  15. robinhood47

    robinhood47 Regular Member

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    Price?

    How much are they charging for this machine?
     
  16. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Not sure how true is this, as tennis string is much thicker than baddy ones. If the clamps (flying clamp) are not tight enough, u might consider to purchase at least 2 more baddy flying clamps. ;)
     
  17. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    But it would be better to actually mount your racquet and try to string two strings. This will tell you if a badminton racquet can be securely mounted, or if the universal clamp can reach the racquet string and actually hold the string securely when you are pulling at say 25 lbs. You cannot pull a prestrung racquet.
     
  18. registered

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    about 699 usd

    yes i also beleive that the clamps look like they don't fit but they don't have an extra accessory option such as badminton clamps because they state that it works for both badminton and tennis already. I'll go email some people that already have the machine and see what they say
     
  19. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    I think it is very expensive for a 2-points hold-down stringing machine. Also clamps for tennis racquets are wider and you might have difficulty using them in certain parts of a badminton racquet. Besides, they are adjusted to clamp thicker strings, although some clamps can be readjusted for thinner strings. Why don't you look for a 6-points 12-supports hold-down system, with the head and throat 2-points 4-supports providing inner and outer support at the head and inner support at the throat using screw-down devices, plus 4 V-shaped supports, which are actually 8 supports as a V-shaped support supports both the top and the bottom of the frame against any outward distortion, at the 4 corners of the frame? This is a much safer system than the one you are looking at. Above all the machine must fit a badminton racquet to a T, rather than the other way around.
     
  20. registered

    registered Regular Member

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    i just checked with a fellow tennis friend and he said it was no problem fitting the clamps into the badminton frame. i was considering other 6-point machines but the thing is that when i look at a 6 point it is either a crank type which is not bad but i have to buy new clamps which in the end will be more expensive, another 6-point is the drop weights, i have considered this but i have personally have a tendacy to upgrade really quickly and i like to hit straight to near the top of the line stuff instead. And the drop weight does not have to be horizontal for tihs drop weight machine. And yes the badminton racket must be clamped at the T which is why i think at the throat there is no plastic post and it has hooks to clamp it down. I have considered the new gamma x-st but when everything came out and i calculated the total it was pretty expensive... about 25% more. As well i was thinking of when i 'buy out the machine' through stringing friends rackets i was thinking of just buying the 6 point mounts and taking it to a machinist to make the post for the mount and just mount it on the machine...
     

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