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A look back on the 21 point rally system after WC06

Discussion in 'World Championships 2006' started by chikkubhai, Sep 28, 2006.

  1. chikkubhai

    chikkubhai Regular Member

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    World Championships 2006 ended on a bitter note for me .... and the reason Taufik Hidayat, Lee Hyun Il and Peter Gade were all out so badly. They appeared different, I mean the games after watching each game again and again I always wondered what if it were were the old conventional 15 points system. Even when I play back in my club I see that the games complete so quickly and a small mistake will never give you an other chance.. after all to err is human, then why not give him a chance. To me Lee Hyun Il for example lost just because of this pointing system, with bad calls and line judgements messing you up, many unforced errors will just kick you out of the game.

    Anyways I wanted to know if there are people like me who don't like this new system and if we can sign in a petition or let the IBF know about it.... after all its the badminton fans who keep watching the games and continue to keep badminton in the limelight...
     
  2. kemana

    kemana Regular Member

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    Haha,you always know i'm anti-21;)
     
  3. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    With 15-point system, bad calls can also mess you up. Lots of mistakes can also cause you to lose. It is not fair to say that Lee HI lost to Bao just because of the scoring system.

    Remember that if you manage to win a game in the 21-point system, it means you must be leading in the 15-point system (if you've not won already) or at least equal on points but serving.

    I also think that if you can lose 21 rallies to another rally (including errors etc.), you deserve to lose the game.
     
  4. chikkubhai

    chikkubhai Regular Member

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    hi kemana... thanks for the response, you could suggest something on how we could make a difference...

    hi hcyong... I just thought that this could be one of the factors involved... I agree that I became pro Lee Hyuns after watching the game a couple of times. When you look at the second set of Lee Hyuns game with Bao you can notice how quickly the game changed. Lee Hyun in fact made 25 unforced errors and still if you have watched carefully you can start to feel that it was Lee Hyuns game. Couple of bad calls actually, 4 have changed the difference in scores by many points, so instead if were continous bad calls the difference can be way too much on the player and when you are closer to winning the pressures even more... Even when Lee was 19 and it was Baos match point he made an unforced error and lost the match he could have won....

    Same with TH he could have not been able to pick up Chen Hongs powerful smashes but to continue and tire the opponent TH had a better hand... TH COULD have also won the match had he been not lazy then... too late he realized...

    These are just my opinions and felt they are all due to the 21 point rally system. I wish it were those same old system atleast for QF, SF and Finals. Compare the 4-5 hour games of tennis to less than a hour game of badminton it completes even before you realize it just started. Its appearing that who ever warms up quickly and is consistent will win easily to me. I would like the one whos more fit and capable of withstanding longer durations to win the game. Just an opinion.

    comments and criticism please.....
     
    #4 chikkubhai, Sep 29, 2006
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2006
  5. Dreamzz

    Dreamzz Regular Member

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    i'm against the 21-point system as well.
    i think it forces people to play more nervously and conservatively, because 1 or 2 mistakes later on in the game could be the end.
    in the 15 point system, if you were 11-14 down, there's still a good chance to catch up, especially in doubles.
    in the 21 point system, if you were 20-17 down, chances are you've lost.
     
  6. kemana

    kemana Regular Member

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    Haha,you know me, i just know my feeling,not too much analysis on it.:eek:
    But,here is my suggestion, move back to 15 or make it 5 games(can adjust the score for each game though,maybe 15? in case it's too long and too tiring for the players).
     
  7. kemana

    kemana Regular Member

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    I agree!
    I know one can argue that you shouldn't get yourself 20-17 down in the first place, or you deserve to lose,but i really think this 21 system has changed the whole rhythm and style of play.Anyway, time will tell, but it could be too late when we find out that we like the old scoring system better.
     
  8. Baderz_Jas

    Baderz_Jas Regular Member

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    I'm an anti-21 as well :D But I think we will have to get use to it. :crying:
     
  9. kemana

    kemana Regular Member

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    Yes,there seems to be nothing we can do to make it back to 15 pt system....
     
  10. kemana

    kemana Regular Member

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    Agree! Seems like badminton is really turning into fast food,before you notice, it's over! Oh,maybe wd is an exception.
     
  11. Aozora

    Aozora Regular Member

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    Conservative here when it comes to badminton, don't really understand why they switched it out of the blue...I mean, I think the 15 point system worked well, and the suspense near the end of the game is what I enjoy most watching a game, not including the actualy gameplay. Doesn't seem fair to some of the older players used to the old style of play. Afterall, even though in essence it is still just winning more rallies than your opponent, it's still different... =/
     
  12. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    it has made womens singles more watchable because winning w/ 11 points was lame, too short of a game.

    it has made womens doubles more watchable because those matches would take forever.

    over all i don't like the new scoring system, but i am willing to accept it.

    it was originally implemented to make badminton more compatible with tv broadcasts. if we want badminton to be more popular to the masses, we need tv.

    the one good part about the new system is the speed at which the next court is available during open gyms!
     
  13. Aozora

    Aozora Regular Member

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    lol, that's true. Now you can't just have a game keep going back and forth for a few hours during open court times...instead you have less than 45 rallies to go through...so you can't have two new guys keep missing their serves forever... xD
     
  14. Dreamzz

    Dreamzz Regular Member

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    i'm sure that doesn't happen at a professional level, missing too many serves. but there's so much pressure on serves now, especially in XD. if you watch the match between sudket/saralee and nathan/gail, sudket was making a lotta mistakes on his serve because of the pressure, especially from nathan.
     
  15. Baderz_Jas

    Baderz_Jas Regular Member

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    It will have to be 5 years before IBF changes it again, :crying: correct me if I'm wrong! :D
     
  16. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    Wc 21..

    My stance on 21 rally scoring hasn´t changed.

    In essence it shortens the games and games where players are closely match it is VERY common to go to 22,23,24,25 etc.. to win a game (in many cases even in the decider).

    This causes excitment for the crowd, which is posivite (so from a marketing perspective to the non-badminton community I have to admit it have some advantages).

    But as the game is shortened and points are more important, it will also make controversial line-calls, serve-judging, net-rolls etc. become a much much bigger factor than with the 3x15 scoring. So to me the 21x3 system is inferior to separate evenly matched players (to really find out which one is the best), and the "luck" factor comes more into play..

    With the old system.. Winning at least two rallies in sequence to get a point, minimized the effect of a bad line-call, a lucky-shot, a service-fault in doubt etc so errors or flukes felt less decisive..

    /Twobeer
     
  17. yuval_ba

    yuval_ba Regular Member

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    I grow to dislike the 21 system more and more with every match I watch.

    I just get a feeling that many matches end up with the less better player winning.

    I think scoring system is responsible to give the better player the higher chance to win the match even if he lost his focus for short while. otherwise it is not badminton match but lower unforced error player match.

    I think that the tennis scoring system is excellent in that. I've seen many matches where the clearly better player lost a set or even two but had the chance to regain his compossure and go back to win the match.

    Maybe 6 star / WC tournaments should be played to 5 sets like tennis, it does not make sense that a match in a WC event can be won in less than 30min

    I also prefer much the concept of only server scores, because there is only one service attempt it makes much more sense in badminton. I want the winner to win his points and not get points from opponent serve into net or long !!!

    I was very disappointed to hear Peter Gade praise the 21-system in this 2006 WC interview: http://youtube.com/watch?v=UmonVo6o3Jk after in the beggining he was very much against it. I wonder what made him change his mind.

    I really hope it will be changed at some point.
     
  18. Aozora

    Aozora Regular Member

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    I am still very much so against it, but I guess I never actually tried it, so I wouldn't know how it works...maybe I'll think differently after I try it...I guess if you pretend we have an ideal world with the fairest bestest awesomely awesome serve/line judges and umpires, then it might not be so bad since anything after still falls back on the player and minimizing errors...which you try to do in both systems, except more emphasized in the 21-system.

    For an amateur like me, I only play with my friends, and there are 0 serve fault calls and line judging's done somewhat fairly by ourselves, not to mention we have almost no pressure whatsoever during the game, so I guess even after I tried it I wouldn't know how it's like for the pros :p

    Hey...is there a poll for this? Just interested in graphicals, cuz I hate reading...:D
     
  19. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    he's not getting any younger.
     
  20. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    that's a good idea.

    the main difference between rally scoring and side-out scoring is the urgency by which you need to recover from your own error. in side-out scoring you get 2 tries to regain the serve. you were not penalized for losing it, but you are not rewarded for regaining it either. the importance of making the serve, especially on game point, is minimized. for that reason, i like rally scoring better.

    i propose extending the winning score to 30, for a 3x30 rally scoring format, with a cap of 35. it gives the better player an opportunity for a comeback, without allowing the game to theoretically last forever.
     

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