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A look back on the 21 point rally system after WC06

Discussion in 'World Championships 2006' started by chikkubhai, Sep 28, 2006.

  1. Wong8Egg

    Wong8Egg Regular Member

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    My only complain about the rally point system would be the length of the double game. I agree that the points of double games should increase to somewhere above 25pts to extend to length of the game while single could remain at 21pts.
     
  2. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    Re the one year trial period, pls refer to the Chairman's speech at the May, 2006 AGM held in Tokyo. All member nations were asked to conduct trials from May, 2005.
    I think England has the max. votes. Whether England chooses to cast its votes directly or through proxies, England did have the votes. Any change to the laws of badminton requires members to vote. If the 21-rally point system was voted in by the IBF Council alone, this would be invalid. There are 149 member nations, each with varying number of votes. There are also a lot of proxy votes, and most of them are blank proxy votes without speicific ways given to the persons given the proxies on how to vote.
    I think the IBF (BWF) works through the 5 Continental Confederations, who in turn work directly with their respective continental member nations.
     
  3. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    In any AGM votes are required to pass or rescind a resolution. If you have some experience in corporate AGMs you should know how to get the votes you want. Most of the ground work is done before the AGM. Proxies are worth thier weight in gold, especially if they are substantial enough.
    It so happens that I have some experience in this field, from company AGMs to Incorporated Owners of an apartment complex. Sometimes you make enemies, especially when you get the proxies you want.
    But if you control 51% of all the votes, all your work behind the scene to get enough proxies to topple the main shareholder is futile. That is why swing votes are important. In politics, swing votes are king-makers.
     
  4. andymcg

    andymcg Regular Member

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    Quote from email from Eric Brown, acting chief executive of Badminton England at the time:

    "Although I am Acting Chief Executive my roots are in the grass roots of
    the game we have made every effort to engage with the public on this
    matter. I sympathise with your views but I think it is important to
    firstly spell out how this decision came about.

    The History Behind the Decision:

    We became aware of firm proposals to change to rally points in November
    2005 and in the December Magazine, which followed, not only did we run 3
    pages on the subject but also in my own article at the front of the
    magazine I requested views from members. Very few came in.

    The matter was also referred to in my article in the November Update to
    council (which is circulated to all counties) and discussed at the
    November Council Meeting where it was agreed that we should not campaign
    against the changes, (partly because at the time we did not know the
    exact nature of them), but should try to exert influence wherever we
    could. The council are the democratically elected members from the
    counties who have a responsibility to provide the key communication link
    between the Counties and Badminton England.

    At the same time we put a poll on our website and again asked for
    views. Our postbag produced a very neutral response although the poll
    showed 70% of those who clicked the button were against.

    The council of the International Badminton Federation (IBF) agreed to
    adopt the new Laws in May, and as we have no member on this council we
    had no opportunity to vote for or against these changes. At the IBF AGM
    the only opportunity we had was to voice our opinion on the floor of the
    meeting and ask for more time to consider the matter. The vote that took
    place at the AGM was to allow Council to change the Laws annually rather
    than every four years at present."


    I think the chief executive would know if his association or a representative of his assocation had a vote. Are there any minutes of the meeting available to show who voted?
     
  5. sunofabeach

    sunofabeach Regular Member

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    i have never heard so many excuses for losing in my life...

    you don't lose because of the scoring system...you lose because you made more errors then your opponent, forced or unforced.

    the new scoring system works because it weeds out the players that don't have the mental toughness to win, only the stamina to rally. less mistakes = better chance of winning.

    how many of you have actually tried the NSS? i agree that the doubles games are quicker so yes, going to 25 points might be a good compromise, but going back to the old scoring only rewards failure.
     
  6. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    i believe there are plus and minus in both scoring system. Yes, there are more hope for a come back under the OSS BUT your opponents think that way too. Every player loves to come back from behind but i bet the same player who is leading would hate their opponent come from behind. So, a smart player adapt to win. So, isn't a smart deserve to win?
     
  7. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    the superior combination of intelligence and athleticism on a given day, deserves to win that day.
     
  8. chikkubhai

    chikkubhai Regular Member

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    More changes please....

    Hi Sun... Thanks for being a critic... I totally agree with you. but but but... would you let the badminton association representing the world make changes to the classic badminton culture just like that and not fret when it actually doesnt show up as any good use to the game??? I dont see a reason why I shouldnt comment. You even suggested that going to 25 points is a good idea... i.e., you actually thought about it, that the current system isnt the best one, my comment was on the association making unreasonable changes and not providing or using feedback from the whole of the badminton... the representatives, the players, and ofcourse the fans us... Yeah you can make infinite changes but for a reason that its better for the game in practice not on paper...
    BCs the only better place that allows us to share our feelings about badminton... So I wanted to let this thread dedicated for someone to frown just like me, Its just a start, a good feedback from BC for the representation...

    Thanks Ctjcad Ive seen the new naming convention.... looks like a new lame idea came into their minds now... naming the cool IBF as something similar to BMW or WWF... From now on Ill have to hang around talking about badminton representation as WBF something that will sound as a BMW or WWF for someone for sure....

    Even look at their website... I think even a kid can do a better job at it... Yeah badminton needs a change though to grab attention...
    hiccups.. excuse me...

     
  9. Aozora

    Aozora Regular Member

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    yay, we went from IBF (also International Boxing Federation) to WBF (World Boxing Federation)!!! and we can now also be associated with the World Bridge Federation...too little acronyms for so many things =/

    I tried the NSS and I didn't feel too much difference since I'm still playing badminton either way, but...now it's even harder to keep score T_T Also, I may not be qualified to comment on this since I never had any coaching for myself, but...one of the changes that came out was about allowing coaching during games. Again, I have no experience in this, but I think being able to think for yourself in a game is important in badminton...iunno, just a thought.
     
  10. chikkubhai

    chikkubhai Regular Member

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    Those who have witnessed the experienced MD TonyGunawan and WijayaCandra Finesse in JP Yonex 2006 Open should also have seen how they changed their game plan to a full power game to quickly finish off. The games were completely different, as they realized that they would rather not withstand longer durations with much younger players. They completed their games in less than half hours using the 21 point rally system... So quickly is yet another reason to change the rally point scoring system.

    Hats off ZN who displayed amazing consistent rallies, the only good game to boast of in the Japan open 06. TH singles was a disappointment though which also completed really quickly, the whole of the tournament ended in less than the ~4 hours some times its the time taken for a single tennis match, if WBF is thinking of a reason for promoting badminton for example with more people wanting to come to see the games (for more time) or for more commerical time with the rally point scoring system then they have done a mistake. Wow Iam finding too many reasons to change the rally point scoring system, bad for me for fault finding.
     
  11. shuttlehead

    shuttlehead Regular Member

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    ralley point scoring

    I discovered badminton less than a year ago. I love the game and wish that I had started playing sooner. I now play 8-9 hrs a week. Since I only played 15 pt. scoring at the local club for about 2 mos. I didn't miss it when 21 pt, scoring was introduced. I now play mostly singles and some doubles using ralley scoring two days a week and doubles only using 2 hand scoring two days a week. I prefer ralley scoring because it is has a faster momentum, is better exercise, and I don't have to wait as long to get a court. There is less time for muscles to cool down between games. I would like to see the win by 2 provision removed and have sudden death added. I believe badminton is best served when it is allowed to evolve along its own path with its own rules rather than trying to imitate another sport.
     
  12. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    Shame on him.......
     
  13. krisss

    krisss Regular Member

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    Sorry to dig up this old thread:O

    But what are people views on the new current scoring system?

    I personally am still hating it - and think that the BWF chould change them back :D.

    I just wanted to find out what people views are now?
     
  14. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    #74 ctjcad, Feb 18, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  15. krisss

    krisss Regular Member

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    Thanks ^^ I will have a look :D
     
  16. shuttlehead

    shuttlehead Regular Member

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    Rally Scoring

    Where is it written in stone that badminton has to follow the lead of other sports like tennis. Badminton is an ancient sport that has changed continuously. I played at a club that uses both rally and two hand. I learned that this club which was started about 1964 first used the ABCD serving system. A served once then B served once then C and D and back to A. I am not certain but I believe the points were awarded to the side that won the rally. Well this system was replaced by another system which was replaced by the 15 point two hand system and hear we are.

    I think rally scoring is the best although I wouldn't mind trying the ABCD.
     
  17. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    It's good to hear such a simple explanation

    .
    :D:D:D krisss ... It's good that you have dug up this old thread. This is because we can now get opinions from newer Badminton players who have never played with the OSS (Old Scoring System) before.

    Let's talk about the Singles Games first.

    Many of my trainees who have never played with the OSS asked me to teach them how it was played. And this I did. And after they have tried it, I asked them...

    Question: What do you think of the OSS compared to the NSS (New Scoring System)?

    Answer: It's exactly they same, except that in the OSS, you don't get awarded a point when it's 'Service Over' to you. No wonder the NSS is extended to 21 points. It is to cover the extra points gained at 'Service Overs'.

    It's good to hear such a simple explanation from them.

    :):):)
    .
     
    #77 chris-ccc, Feb 18, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  18. gamepurpose

    gamepurpose Regular Member

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    either system is ok to me.
    I think New one is more like...
    I guess we just want best of the best, we want players now a day to train hard to make no mistake and able to clear out their mind when they playing a match (nervous, scared, worried, and etc ...)
    and some1 mention it way back then, that OSS is just too long. Especially first round, if the tournament is just too big, you might not able to finish the first round in one day. And we all know times are money to some of the players. Therefore, we won't able to have big tournaments with whole lots of people with OSS, and have to limit the amount of players.
    And I do want to see or go to big tournaments, so that you meet more people and learn something new.
    If anyone think they can donate some money in gamepurpose's foundation please do. All the money will be contribute to me and me only >.< so that I can travel other country and watch the big tournament. Rather than staying in USA, I think the usa open was a joke. this might offend some people, but yea It was small, not whole lot of top players join and play.
     
  19. Deathsticks

    Deathsticks Regular Member

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    i think this system is a yes for any attacking player
    for 21 point system you would always want to atk
    idk about 15 sys but id say both
     
  20. shuttlehead

    shuttlehead Regular Member

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    Rally Scoring System

    Rally Scoring System has been a big success where I play. Two hand scoring seems like something from the distant past. Once in a while a player shows up who has never played rally scoring. No big deal. A few waves of the hand and five minutes playing time and they have the hang of it. It's really a very simple scoring method.
    Now if we could only hurry up and replace those old feather shuttles with a standard nylon shuttle the game would improve even more. The Yonex 2000 shuttles are a big improvement over feathers. Maybe this will be the first official nylon tournament shuttle?
     

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