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Adding one extra cross string

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by Blitzzards, Feb 10, 2010.

  1. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    two points:D

    1. your 7.8% is an appreciable difference between strings only but on a total surface area basis including racket frame, shaft, your fist, your arm, the overall net reduction in air resistance is much less than 7.8%. If i wax my racket arm, i can make up for the added air resistance of using regular string:p

    2. bless that panda, his leisure time in the zoo allow him to measure diameter for various badminton strings. In reality, bg66 isn't 0.66mm:D:D check it out here
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1364536&postcount=67 So again, the real reduction of air resistance of using 'thinner' string isn't that much.


    So, taneepak's theories of damaging heat from using an awl, and reduction of racket speed due to 1 extra cross string only impresses the gullibles
     
    #61 cooler, Feb 14, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2010
  2. kklam

    kklam Regular Member

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    Master Taneepak,

    I respect your experience and knowledge if they can convince me. Is that you who said the heat will affect the string when using the awl? I just ask you to back up your theory with substantiation. You said my question is childish, frivolous, and irrelevant. Why did you say that? We all know there is heat produced when using an awl. What's the amount? If you know how to answer my question, please do it. Don't just preach your theory with blah blah blah. Please respect other people's question.
     
    #62 kklam, Feb 14, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2010
  3. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    I have tried many ways, including the use of the awl and other tools, to hold tension before the last tie-off many years back. At low tensions the awl could get away with breakage but it still was unkind to the grommets' durability, subjecting them to sometimes severe compression. At very high tensions of 35lbs, the typical 10% higher tension than the standard cross string tension of say 32lbs, the string would snap frequently either upon inserting the awl tightly or following the insertion of the awl and upon releasing the 35lbs tensioned string. On the other hand, you can use a tie-off knot, pull the string outside the frame and tension it at 35lbs. Since there is no awl to cause such a traffic jam inside the grommet with the tie-off knot, there is hardly any heat to do mischief. With the modern stringing machine the tensioner or crank takes over the work of the awl in holding the tie-off tensioned string.
     
  4. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    Has anyone tried to test out the one cross string less (remember it must be the bottom grommet #10 to be omitted) for improved power and playability?
    Also thick strings become thinner strings when highly tensioned. Likewise thin strings become even thinner when highly tensioned. OTBE, thin strings are more powerful plus better control because of reduced air resistance.
    You will note that I am effectively advocating one cross string less at bottom grommet #10 for improved power and playability. Let us see-only time will tell-if I am right or a lot of hot air.
     
  5. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    Please excuse me but I have indeed tried this pattern before with the cross string at B10 omitted with two racquets namely, AT700LTD with NBG95 at 25lbs and Cab15 with BG85 at 21lbs, both racquets tied using the 2 piece method. As for my observation, they did NOT feel ANY different compared to my other racquets which are strung with the regular Yonex pattern, not any easier to swing nor easier to generate power with.

    Perhaps you would say that it's because of the low tension the test was conducted, or the stringers' quality? I certainly do not know and can't contribute more into the reduction of one cross string for gaining performance theory.
     
  6. kklam

    kklam Regular Member

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    Master Taneepak,

    Thanks for further elaborating on what you said. I appreciate that. Regarding the "heat" and "air friction" issue we are discussing here, you are right theoretical. However, can you use a more a scientific approach to prove the "heat" and "air friction" you are talking are really significant. Other members can use simple scientific calculation to prove you are wrong, why can't you use the same approach to defend what you said?

    Happy New Year.
     
  7. singnflip4life

    singnflip4life Regular Member

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    Taneepak,

    when you say skip a cross at B10, what do you advocate for the weaving pattern to achieve your result? Do you advocate keeping the weave the same for the B9/B11 crosses, meaning they look just like as if the B10 had been there, or should you still alternate, as if B10 had never actually existed?
     
  8. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    The weaving pattern for any two adjacent strings must always be opposite from each other. In other words, when the grommet #9 cross is on top of main string A location, then the grommet #11 cross should be below the same Main A string location.
    Another two items or things you may want to get rid off for better playability are:
    1. The 4 pairs of grommets at the T-joint. I don't know why Yonex keeps using them. Do it like Li Ning with their N series racquets. Take off those paired grommets at the T-joint and either replace them with single ones or cut and trim the paired grommets to narrower single grommets.
    Also use a sharp diagonal plier to cut off the lengths of the grommets that are too long near the T-joint. Reducing the grommet lengths at this vulnerable T-joint area will also improve speed. Long grommets at the T-joint were initially put in to reduce string and frame vibrations.
    2. Get rid of any bulging grommets, especially those that come in pairs, on both sides of the frame at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions. Replace them with single and small grommets that are flush with the frame. This will make the racquet more aerodynamic and faster.

    Try the above and let me know.
     
  9. singnflip4life

    singnflip4life Regular Member

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    I'm gonna order spare grommets so I can try this, just to try. No point in rejecting without actually trying it out, no matter how much the math says it should be insignificant.
     
  10. kakinami

    kakinami Regular Member

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    If all your theories are true, don't you think ALL the top players in the world would be using your methods? With the Z Slash and all its studies and measurements, wouldn't Yonex Japan have taken into account wind drag, reducing main strings, taking out u shaped grommets at throat, etc? if they did that how many more Km's could have they gotten, 421.5Km?
     
  11. druss

    druss Regular Member

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    If you look over my calculations again... or try it yourself, you'll see that I included the strings and the racket head but ignored the shaft downwards. So yes it is conservative but not by much. You'd have to get into triple integral calculus in order to calculate it correctly which is just not worth it for this simple exercise.

    As for the taneepak's statement about the grommets... that's even more ludicrous than the string comment.
     
  12. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    What taneepak stated about the grommets (or the points against the U-shaped grommets at the throat) actually made me rethink about my racquets. Now I understand why my first gen Ti-10 generates so much vibrations during smashes and power shots which makes it hard to control compared to my other newer racquets. On the other hand I also noticed hardly ANY increase in swing speed with the racquet compared to the others, especially my other MP100 which of the same weight specification and similar design.

    I would gladly refit my Ti-10s with the U-shaped grommets in favour of more stability rather than to hope to gain something from the negligible decrease of (if any at all) aerodynamic surface area contributed by the grommets.
     
  13. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    If you look at the T-joint face of some Yonex racquets with the 4 U-shaped or paired grommets, the surface area of the T-joint around the U-shaped grommets looks rather large. I have as a matter of fact cut the 4 U-shaped grommets of my AT700 and trimmed them into 8 single grommets. I can feel it is now faster and less ponderous.
     
  14. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    The Chinese knew as early as in the 1960s about omitting one cross string at the throat end for more power. There is in fact on record about this if I recall correctly.
    There is a 10 VCD pack on badminton by Xiao Jie produced in 1997. Xiao Jie recently appeared with Zhao Jianhua in a 3-dvd training program which many of you may have either bought or pirated.
    In the 10 VCD series there was one section devoted to stringing, which clearly says that omitting the cross string at the throat end gives more power. Some of you may have the 10 VCDs. I know uncle Loh of Singapore has a set because he bought them from me. Maybe Loh may be kind enough to look into this.
     
  15. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    Taneepak, I understand your point and respect your theoretical ideas. But personally and humbly speaking, I can hit hard and swing my racquets fast enough to generate sufficient and sometimes unnecessarily over power (which leads me to making quite a lot of unforced errors) to not want to bother too much in attempting the reduction of as much aerodynamic area on my racquets.

    But about the point you made about omitting the cross string at B10 will make the racquet easier to generate power with compared to a racquet using the usual Yonex string pattern at the same tension, perhaps it is because the omission of that string reduces the overall stiffness of the string bed even at the same tension? In terms of physics, the shorter string when pulled to the same tension compared to a longer string will be easier to flex and "bend" because the longer string has more resilience. Those who play guitar will also understand this fact, where it is definitely well known that a shorter scale guitar's strings are easier to bend and flex compared to that of a longer scaled guitar, at the same tuning (string tension).
     
  16. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    I second your post. As I sad before, some one need to take a high school physics...
     
  17. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    maybe taneepak, knowingly or not, want to showoff his tighter upper stringbed string job to his customers. U see, if u drop out 1 or 2 bottom cross, relatively feel test will conclude that the upper string bed will feel tighter lol.
     
  18. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    one question for u, which current chinese player racket on chinese #1 team has this special chinese secret stringing technique??? r u saying they left out this obvious advantage by accident? is old master tang fu that forgetful now? lol
     
    #78 cooler, Feb 15, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  19. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    Gentlemen, do you see a trend moving from the standard 22 cross strings to 21 cross strings, especially for racquets that are for doubles and racquets that are not too head-heavy?
    Also do you see which half of the stringbed has a much larger area without cross strings at the extremities? Just imagine what would happen if the two areas without cross strings were to swap places, the top part swapping with the bottom on area terms? Swapping places on an area basis will not affect the total areas of the strings in both cases, but in effective air resistance it will be like day and night.
     
  20. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    This is interesting reading www.patentstorm.us/patents/7144341/description.html. Although it is mainly about tennis, do you think it is as ludicrous? For those who want to skip the long read just go to the last two ending paragraphs.
     

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