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AE MD R16 - KKK/TBH vs. Hong Wei / Shen Ye

Discussion in 'German Open / All England / Swiss Open 2012' started by Heong, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. Heong

    Heong Regular Member

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    Hello,

    Does ANYONE have a video capture of this game?

    It was a very close game and I want to see what happened towards the end when a red card was issued out

    I checked youtube, but no vids


    Thanks
     
  2. LD rules!

    LD rules! Regular Member

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  3. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    Even a worse call than I remember :D:rolleyes: (look at Shen's position moments before the red card)
     
    #3 demolidor, Mar 12, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  4. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    ah... now i understand the umpire a bit better...

    at 20-19 when koo was receiving, he put up his hand to indicate he wasn't ready, after he seemed to be ready in position to receive and just when wei served

    that would be a delay of game in itself, so when koo added other delay tactics like drinking and wandering around, that was the hair that broke the camel's back for the umpire

    it's a bit harsh, imo a yellow card would have sufficed, but the ump probably want to teach koo a lesson he'll never forget
     
  5. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    He gave permission (@1:59) for Koo/all to go to the sideline. Looks to me KKK was asking for a drink but wiped of some sweat at the same time so umpire might have thought he asked to towel down but took a drink instead and gave a yellow all in less than 2 seconds (well 5), which is probably why I missed it altogether the first time around ;). Then just before the red card KKK seems to be heading for his service position only to notice Shen is not even remotely ready (back turned towards them and walking away @ 2:21) so walked on to the sideline to wipe a bit of sweat off and headed straight back to serve.
    From this angle you can also hardly notice TBH asking for the court to be mopped twice ... (more due to the glaring light on court)
     
    #5 demolidor, Mar 12, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  6. Winex West Can

    Winex West Can Regular Member

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    Video quality wasn't too good but it looks like the Umpire was quite impatient. Wonder if there will be further penalties as KKK/TBH didn't even bother to thank the umpire. Initially when I heard about the incident, I was wondering whether the umpire in question was Jane Hancock who screwed the Malaysians over back in 2003.

    Both teams were wandering all over the court but I guessed KKK/TBH was too offensive>. Maybe something happened earlier in the match.

    At that point in the match, I would have let the players finished up the game/match instead of trying to show who's in charge.
     
  7. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    The umpire was Gavin Smith. It appears that Koo Kien Keat was issued the fault (red card) for delaying the game after he was given first a warning and then a formal warning (yellow card) when the score was locked at 20-all in the rubber.

    With the rhythm of the match, yes, it would have been better to let the players decide the outcome. As it turned out to be, it was. The umpire faulted a player who was delaying the game after loosing a rally. The score-line was immaterial, if such a delay is faulted when the match is in the early stages, it is still a fault-able offense when a similar delay takes place in the final stage of the match.
     
    #7 2wheels04, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  8. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    They won that rally actually ...
    And the weird thing is what looks like "permission @ 1:59" in this vid from this angle is where I earlier in the daily thread commented on "permission denied" :D. Since KKK didn't protest I guess the gesture was indeed a denial instead of permission ... but Shen spotting the gesture also immediately proceeds towards the sideline.

    On second thought KKK does seem somewhat surprised at first ...

    flv_snapshot_01.58_[2012.03.13_10.16.05].jpg
     
    #8 demolidor, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  9. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    First, the disclaimer: I may well be biased.

    Totally uncalled for, the red card I mean, so soon after the yellow. KKK went to the take the shuttle from the service judge, then was ready to serve but the Chinese were still walking around, so KKK went to the sideline again and immediately got served the red.

    That said, it's a good thing to knock KKK a few notches off the pedestal. It's likely that he was his usual annoying self on court. That probably got him the yellow (him getting the drink, ironically, I feel is a misunderstanding; I thought the umpire signalled permission). But the red after that was totally uncalled for and may be personal. I would have booed too.
     
  10. YumCimil

    YumCimil Regular Member

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    I *hate* the calling for a let when receiving the serve thing. It's pure gamesmanship. Personally, I'd like to see more umpires just saying "Sod off, you were ready.", and awarding the point to the server. Would stop it really quite quickly, I suspect. :)
     
  11. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    That part where the umpire issues the yellow card, it looks like he's letting both sets of players towel down. He cannot issue that yellow card for the delay at the start of the rally - if he wanted to, the yellow card should have been have been issued earlier.
     
  12. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    That would unfortunately tilt the balance back to the server, who no doubt will take full advantage of it.

    When there is no clear solution to this problem, I'd rather the benefit of the doubt be given to the receiver. Imagine a server winning a point on a dubious call, and then having the advantage of serving again. Imagine tennis being played on a badminton system (winner serves).
     
  13. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    In Badminton, the one who serves is at a disadvantage, the opposite of Tennis. I have seen cases where the server lost the point when having to re-serve after a let, not the other way round.
     
  14. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    This is a good observation about server loosing point after let. It will be good to get actual match statistics on those situations.

    Be that as it may, for a let to be played, the umpire judges it to be valid and lawful basis. It is not up to the umpire to compensate if that server looses focus, concentration, intensity. At the same time, the umpire should not help the other team by playing a let. At the first instance, nip all this tom-foolery in the bud, dock the fellow of his/her team a point, and get the game flowing again.
     
  15. george@chongwei

    george@chongwei Regular Member

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    Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....really poor umpiring... thumbs down..[​IMG]
     
  16. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    actually i'm surprised that the mas players' coaches didn't protest to the tourney referee
     
  17. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    Originally, I thought he allowed them to give a drink too. But when I watched again, he was telling them to go back on the court. I'm pretty sure he must have also said no or play. That's why the yellow was given.

    On the red, it seemed like the Malaysians wanted to stall, they asked to mop the court and what not, and the umpire specifically told the players to play. I think in that position, he felt like KKK had quite the time to already throw his sweat off the court, why wait until the last second to throw your sweat off the court. So the umpire felt that he was delaying the game further.


    As an umpire, I would definitely given that yellow to KKK, that red seems a bit too strict at that time though. But I did not see the whole match so I cannot really comment. The umpire has the best feel of what's happening on the court and they are the ones who control the match and he felt the Malaysians took too long. 20-20 3rd game is pretty critical. Every second counts.
     

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