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Another questions for professional stringers

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by Frank, Mar 24, 2002.

  1. Frank

    Frank Guest

    I have always belived that when stringing a racket, the cross string should be 1-2 lbs more than the main in order to maintain the head shape of the racket. However, today when I strung my Mp77, with 22Lbs main and 23.5Lbs cross, it seems that the head has been streched longer as if the tension of the cross is too high(or the Main's tension is too low)...So I am confused..
    So,does it means that the recommandation of "the tension of the cross should be 1-2Lbs higher than main" in fact means that you should string it with the main and cross at the SAME tension but when finished, the cross will be 1-2lbs tighter(due to weaving?), which does NOT means that you should string the cross at 1-2Lbs tighter than the main in the first place.
    BTW, before that, I string quite a bit for myself and my friends, and I use a decent stringer in my club(which has two point supports),and this is the first time I encounter this.(my ti-10&Sp900sr all seems ok)
    Maybe it's just my Mp77.....
    Thanks for you time.
     
  2. The same tension for the main and cross should be applied to MP77 only, i think it's due to the head design of the racket. I've try to string the same tension(cross & main) for MP77, the shape is just perfect.
    For the other rackets, the cross tension has to be higher in order to maintain the head shape, I've strung 27/main & 30/cross
    for the Ti10.
     
  3. YY Fan

    YY Fan Regular Member

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    Dear Frank,

    According to my past stringing experience, if your stringing machine only has 2 points, the cross will be 1 to 2 lbs higher. After strining the main, both sides of the racket frame will bend outward (no protectors as in an old 2 points stringing machine), that makes the whole frame looks more round than before, in order to re-shape the frame to its original frame, one has to add more tension on the cross to make the sides of the frame bend inward, to restore its original shape.

    On the other hand, if your stringing machine has 4 points (wiht 2 protectors on both sides), the cross should be reduce by 1 to 2 lbs instead. A 4-points stringing machine has already protected the original shape of the racket, when you set the frame on the stringing machine.

    As there are two wings (protectors) on both sides, these wings have prevented the sides of the racket frame from bending outward during the stringing process.

    Therefore, there is no need to add additional tension on the cross in a 4-points stringing machine. if you do add additional 1 to 2 lbs on the cross, in the case of a 4-points stringing machine, both sides of the frame will be pushed inward and the whole frame will look very narrow ! Stringing in this way not only distort the shape of the racket, but also will even break the racket frame on the 2, 4, 8, 10 o'clock positions.

    Thus, in the case of 4-point stringing machine, it is no good to string the racket with cross increase by 1 to 2 lbs, nor string both the cross and main at the same tension, the best way is to reduce 1 to 2 lbs on the cross, compared to the main.

    According to my experience, this stringing philosophy is applicable to all kinds of head shape, no matter it is traditional box oval shape or wide/box Isometric head shape.

    Most of the YY rackets has recommended the cross with higher tension, YY assume that most of the stringers use 2-points stringing machines more often than 4-points ones. Even some stringers will uninstall the "wings" as they find it need more time to set up the "wings", particulary when time is a factor.

    Frankly speaking, 2-points stringing machines is not suggested to string in high tension as there is no protection on the sides of the frame. That is why many stringers have to add on the "wings" on the stringing machines in the stringing service center of many international badminton competitions, as most of the international players prefer high tension.

    To finalize, stringing your racket in a 4-point stringing machine is much better than the two-points one. As a 4-points stringing machine give more protection and keep the original shape of your racket much better.

    Frank, I hope you find my informaiton useful.
     
  4. Winex West Can

    Winex West Can Regular Member

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    YY Fan,
    That is very good information. So to summarize, if you are using a 2-point machine, it is advisable to string the cross at higher tension (to pull in the sides of the frame) but if you have a 4-point or higher machine, it is better to string the cross at lower tension (1-2 lbs) to retain the shape of the frame.

    Also, a 2-point machine is not recommended for stringing at high tension (> 24 lbs??). I have a 2-point drop weight machine and I find it frustrating to string racquets higher than 22 lbs.

    Thanks for the info :D
     
  5. Frank

    Frank Guest

    many thanks for the detailed infos...

    I will try this when I string next time...Thanks again YY fan
     
  6. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    YYF,

    that was very informative. just curious, are you a stringer working for a shop?
     
  7. Matt

    Matt Regular Member

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    Re: many thanks for the detailed infos...

    Frank,

    Well I had a chat to my badminton stringer at my store and asked how he does badminton rackets. He saids he makes the cross and main the same. (ie 22.75 lb, will be 22.75 for both cross+main.) He also mentioned that it's sort of sticking hairs out when hacing the cross+main different because the strings will be pulled to equal out anways (or something that, I forgot what exactly he said).
     
  8. YY Fan

    YY Fan Regular Member

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    Dear Kwun,

    I was a part-time stringer several years ago.

    I learn my stringing technique and theory mainly through years of chating with different stringers from different shops, together with my observation.

    I would like to supplement a point I mentioned before. Why stringing in a 4-pts stringing machine, the cross has to reduce tension by 1 to 2 lbs ? But not stringing both main and cross at the same tension ?

    The reason is the cross is shorter than the main, applying the same tension, let say 22lbs on both the main and the cross, the cross will be even more tighter than the main, though of the same tension.

    You can imagine when applying the same tension on a 1m string and another 2m string, you will indeed find the shorter string ( 1m ) more tighter. That means if you apply 22 lbs on both cross and main, the cross will be tighter than the main, this will distort a bit the frame shape, particularly in the case of weaker frame rackets, the sides of the frame will bend inward and make the frame look narrow and long. Hence my reason for reducing the cross by 1 to 2 lbs.

    The most ideal tension difference between the main and cross is 10%, let say you want to string your racket at 22 lbs, the main will be 22 lbs whereas the cross will then be 20 lbs, if stringing at higher tension like 27 lbs, the main will be 27 lbs and the cross will be 24 lbs, and so on.

    In my opinion, it is the most ideal and saver stringing method. Why few, if any, stringer use this method ? Cause of time factor and commercialisation. If you are a leisure badminton player, having your own stringing machine, you can have time to string your racket in the way I recommended. How come will an employed stringer, spend extra effort to string rackets from others - mainly due to commercialisation.

    Besides, another issue here, does anyone here notice the difference, advantages and disadvantages on the 2 knots and 4 knots stringing method ?

    If someone interested, please inform me via this forum and I shall reply soon.


    YY Fan
     
  9. Frank

    Frank Guest

    Base on what I know, 2 knots means string the whole racket with one piece of string, 4 knots means cut the string into 4.5m ane 5.5m and string the main and cross seperately, which is the only way to achieve different tension for the main and cross.

    and BTW, YY Fan, I checked the shape of my Mp77's head, and noticed the shape is still narrower than unstrung head(the head is just a bit longer..maybe 2-3mm). the machine I used has a 2 points support, and I strung the cross 2lbs more than the main...that is so weird. I did the same on my Ti-10 and Iso Sp900 and there are fine(the only different is that I used Ashway Rally21 micro for the Mp77 and YY bg70 for the other two)
     
  10. Winex West Can

    Winex West Can Regular Member

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    YY Fan,
    I am intrigued by your last comment. I would be interested in learning more about the pros and cons of one piece stringing vs two piece stringing. Also, I'd noticed that in one piece stringing, some stringers have the two knots on the same side of the frame and some have them on different sides citing that it balances out the frame (hence string tension) better.

    Thanks.
     
  11. YY Fan

    YY Fan Regular Member

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    Dear Frank,

    Bingo ! You are right. Exactly what you mention. 2-knots means stringing a racket with a whole piece of string, whereas 4-knots requires a whole string to be cut into 2 parts - one for cross and one for main. I shall mention the pros and cons of these two stringing methods on this forum later on. First of all, I would like to share some of my experience with you as follows.

    The head frame of Yonex Ti-10 is very hard, so even inappropriate stringing tension between the cross and main will only affect the head shape just a little bit. Such shape distortion is unremarkable. I really have this stringing experience.

    On the other hand, if the head frame is made of softer carbon fiber material like Winnex rackets from Taiwan, which cannot stand up higher tension, there is still chance of head frame shape-distortion, even using my suggested stringing method.

    I have once consulted a profound stringer, who had once been assigned by the Hong Kong Yonex distributor to string rackets for international players like Sun Jun, Arby and Alan B. etc, during the 1996 Thomas and Uber Club held in HK.

    He was also using my suggested stringing method to string rackets for them. He said in case of high tension like 25 lbs, 27 lbs or even higher, there was NO WAY to prevent shape distortion, there was a least a little bit shape distortion, it was only a question of degree of distortion, high or low.

    In addition, different material and different thickness (gauge) of strings will have different tension result, even stringing all the different strings at the same tension.

    For Yonex Ti-65 or Ti-68, since the material is harder, the tension result will be tighter than BG65 which is a type of comparatively soft string, even using the same tension on them. Besides, harder strings can hold tension longer.

    For Yonex BG66, the gauge is 0.66mm, Yonex BG70, the gauge is 0.7mm, the tension result of BG66 will be tighter than BG70 cause the gauge of BG66 is thinner, even using the same tension on them. There, BG66 at 21 lbs is equal to BG70 at 22 lbs !

    Therefore, Frank, Rally 21 Micro 21 is a thin string, you can now imagine the tension result of the cross, or the impact of the cross on your MP77, particulary when you additionally add 1 to 2 lbs on the cross but THIN string.

    I hope this piece of information is a hint to your question.


    YY Fan
     
  12. Frank

    Frank Guest

    YY Fan:
    You are absolutely right! I completely agree with you on the fact that the Ti-10 has a tougher head frame, probably due to the Ti in the head while Mp77 doesn't has it. Also various type of string's characteristics.

    And your extensive knowledge of stringing is very appriciated.
    Thank you!
     
  13. YY Fan

    YY Fan Regular Member

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    Dear Frank,

    Not at all, you are welcome.

    I only hope to share some of my experience with badminton fans like you.



    YY Fan
     
  14. olli

    olli Regular Member

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    The normal stringing pattern for badminton rackets has 22 main strings. That means, the 2 last main strings are ending near the joint part of the racket head.
    If you're using the 2 knots method, you will now start with the cross strings, where one of the mains has ended. So you will work your way up to the top of the head, which is the weakest part of the frame. This means, that you are "pulling" the tension towards the weakest part, what is statically not recommenable (if you are stringing with higher tension). You can compare this situation with ovulating an egg: it starts with the narrower part pulling the tension towards the rounder (more solid) part (btw: that's the reason, why traditional shaped frames are more solid than iso shaped rackets). Using the 4 knots technique, you allways start stringing the crosses at the top of the racket head working your way downwards.
     
  15. YY Fan

    YY Fan Regular Member

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    Dear Peter Kho,

    You are right. 2-knots stringing method is using a whole string for both main and cross, whereas 4-knots stringing method is cutting a whole string into 2 pieces, one for the main and the other for the cross.

    Normally, the total length of the main equals to 8 times of the length of a badminton racket.

    2-knots stringing method advantage :

    It save time and minimize the waste of badminton string. Certainly, 2-knots stringing method does not need to measure and cut the whole string into main and cross. Besides, after stringing the main, the stringer can then directly string the cross without cutting away the remaining string ends ( in the case of 4-knots stringing method ). This help to economize the use of string. Very often, in many sports shop, stringers would like to stock rolls of string, instead of packet of string, so that the stringer can make better use of, or economize the string (no string ends left as in the case of 4-knots stringing method). Hence, 2-knots stringing method is widely used by shops stringers as time and cost of string can be minimized. That's why some badminton rackets like Pro-Kennex and Carlton, they come with string in 2-knots, as in the case of mass production, you know time and string cost must be considered.

    2-knots stringing method disadvantage :

    The advantage of 2-knots stringing method is FATAL !
    One can notice that the top frame is narrower than the bottom part of the frame. A badminton racket normally has totally 72 grommets, after stringing all the main, the last two main strings will be through the 12th grommets on both sides of the frame (counting from the T-joint upward), where these two grommets are located near the bottom part of the frame. In the case of 2-knots stringing method, the stringer will then continue to direct the original head string near the bottom of the frame, he is then forced to string the cross in a reverse direction (as long as the stringer hasn't cut the whole string after stringing the main) FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE FRAME UP TO THE TOP ! In this way, the pressure and the force during stringing will be pushed upward from the bottom to the top, finally, the top of the frame will become more round than before, or more serious, the top frame will be forced to break !
    This 2-knots stringing method can only be used with low tension, let say 18 lbs. I personally highly discourage using this 2-knots stringing method, particularly on high grade badminton rackets.

    The pros and cons of 2-knots and 4-knots are just the opposite. Most international badminton players are stringing their rackets in 4-knots.

    I am sorry as my English is only so so, should there be any area not expressive, please forgive.

    How you find this information interesting.



    YY Fan
     
  16. YY Fan

    YY Fan Regular Member

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    Dear Olli,

    We see eye to eye ! Certainly you are also a very professional stringer, what you mentioned is more expressive than mine.

    Thank you very much for your response to my question and sharing your valubale experience with all of us.


    YY Fan
     
  17. olli

    olli Regular Member

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    Dear YY Fan,
    you're welcome. As it means so much fun for me to talk about badminton related stuff in any kind, I actually have to say thank you, too. :)
     
  18. Sony

    Sony Guest

    Hi everyone. :) Very good discussion. :) YY Fan, so what I have been using for the past few years for tension of cross to be 2lbs. higher is wrong? Yonex recommends 2lbs. higher on cross is improper? Very confused. :( I understand your disecting of the theory of 2lbs. higher for main. That means most stringers are wrong about the 2lbs. higher on the cross?
     
  19. Winex West Can

    Winex West Can Regular Member

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    YY Fan/Olli,
    Thank you very much for your information. It was very informative and eye-opening. I have personally prefer one piece stringing having been brought up that way.

    Thanks again.
     
  20. Mike

    Mike Guest

    Excellent discussion, guys. Kwun, is it possible to document this somewhere? :)
     

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