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another serving query...

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by amleto, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    I am quite a 'fast' server. By this I mean that there is very little pause between me addressing the shuttle, and me starting my serve.

    Some club members get used to this and anticipate my timing of serve. When I notice this I add a deliberate pause whilst addressing the shuttle - nothing extravagent, 4-6 seconds. During this pause, the reciver will often step/leap forward trying to attack my serve that hasn't started yet.

    Now, as far as I can understand it, this isn't a fault because I haven't started my serve.

    1) Is this correct?

    2) If I notice them 'charging' my serve before I have started any serve action, can I start my serve action to bring about a (receiver) fault?

    looking forward to your opinions and explanations.
     
  2. Avenger

    Avenger Regular Member

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    have you swing your racket and then stop
    or you did not swing the racket at all during the service?
     
  3. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    fifteen charact
     
  4. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    imo, holding the shuttle and racket in the ready position (i'm interpreting this as addressing the shuttle) for more than 3 secs is too long
     
  5. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    3 secs is too long

    .
    BWF should come out with a 'specific/measured' time. :):):)

    Currently, no one can say what is too short or too long.
    .
     
  6. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    there is no way 3 secs can be too long from any of the rules.

    I think the exact phrase from whatever rule is 'undue delay'.

    http://www.worldbadminton.com/rules/#9

    anyway, back on topic - does someone moving in anticipation of a serve before it has even started count as a fault?

    If I'm quick enough, does starting the serve whilst they are in motion induce a receiver fault?
     
    #6 amleto, Feb 17, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2011
  7. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Is someone moving in anticipation of a serve before it has even started; a fault?

    .
    Yes, the receiver moving in anticipation of a serve before it has even started will be counted as a fault.

    I posted these comments in another thread;
    .
     
  8. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    if you watch tournaments and pros play, 3-4 secs max in the addressing position will be all you see

    6 secs is too long, your opponents will not like your mind games if you're playing social/club games
    and if you're in tournament competition, the umpire will warn you of undue delay
     
  9. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    chris,
    what does during service mean - I thought during service was from the start of the forward swing?

    edit:

    yes:
    Therefore the receiver moving feet before the service has started is not covered in the rules.
     
    #9 amleto, Feb 17, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2011
  10. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Laws of Badminton

    .
    :D:D:D Looks like you want to find a loophole in the Laws of Badminton.

    In plain language, the receiver is not allowed to move before the shuttlecock is being hit during the Service.
    :):):)
    .
     
    #10 chris-ccc, Feb 17, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2011
  11. druss

    druss Regular Member

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    Agreed but... the wording of the rules do not clearly state that. It says that the service starts at the first forward motion but also that the players are to have both feet touching the ground and that the server can't start the service until both players are ready.

    Based on that I would say there is no fault from either side, maybe the server would even get faulted as the receiver is clearly not ready if he's in motion....
     
  12. wirre

    wirre Regular Member

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    It depends.... as usual when interpreting laws/rules. Usually in int. tournaments you'll see that reciever are declaring when they are ready. Or rather when *not* ready by holding up the non-racket hand. As soon as the hand goes down (s)he counts as "ready".

    In this case described by amleto I'd say if the reciever has taken position and let the hand fall that means "ready" state is declared and any movement of feet before serve is delivered (and started) is a fault. If recieving position hasn't been taken it is a fault to serve, but the reciever may also be warned (if umpired) for undue delay of play.

    Now the question is if the "pause" between "presenting" and "starting" made by amleto is to be considered a fault too? Less than 6s I wouldn't care (probably take 3-4s myself), but over 10s is definitly not ok IMO.

    that's my 0.02 SEK / mats
     
  13. druss

    druss Regular Member

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    Agreed but as with many of the rules they aren't as detailed as they could be, mostly because many of the rules require some judgment by the umpire. This is true with the rules of most sports though.
     
  14. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    to be clear, consider the receiver as ready, and then stepping/lunging forward in anticipation of serve. Please also take the time spent addressing shuttle as NOT undue. (My normal rhythm is 1-2s, so I only need to wait 4-5s total to drastically change it. )

    The server can't be faulted for serving when receiver not ready, only a let may be called.
     
    #14 amleto, Feb 17, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2011
  15. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Your 1-2 secs addressing the shuttle is not fast at all. Fast would be practically less than 0.5 secs or almost instantaneous, ie the shuttle is hit the moment it is brought into the ready position.
     
  16. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    none of your posts have addressed the thread topic.
     
  17. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    The server can't be faulted for serving when receiver not ready

    .
    If I were the umpire, and;

    (1) When your receiver is not ready and you serve, I would call it a 'Let'.

    (2) When you serve again before your receiver is ready, I would call it a 'Fault' and show you a Yellow card. ;););)

    (3) When you serve again before your receiver is ready, I would show you a Red card and announce "Game and Match Over". :):):)

    Perhaps I am a strict umpire, but I would not allow your 'Gamesmanship' to gain control over your receiver. :eek::eek::eek:
    .
     
    #17 chris-ccc, Feb 17, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2011
  18. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    off track, but show me the rule where you can call a fault the server because the RECEIVER is not ready.

    and there is a big difference between intentionally serving when it's obvious the receiver isnt ready, and serving too early when you genuinely think the receiver is ready. Are you really going to yellow card if the latter happens twice? I'd be calling the tournament ref over if you did.
     
  19. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Gamesmanship is never good for 'Good/Fair' Badminton

    .
    I shall let others to reply. ;););)

    For me, I can only see 'Gamesmanship' being displayed in your posts thus far, instead of playing fair.

    Gamesmanship is never good for 'Good/Fair' Badminton; Therefore calling the tournament referee over could be the best solution.

    Another example: A pedestrian crossing the road when there was RED light for the pedestrian, and GREEN for cars. Would you run over the pedestrian with your car and then tell the laws makers that you were right and the pedestrian was wrong?
    :eek::eek::eek:
    .
     
  20. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    ok, so you cant show me the rules, and you think I'm doing gamesmanship simply by changing my serve rhythm, but someone that keeps 'jumping the gun' on my serve with no consequence is perfectly ok?

    I'm only trying to acheive a good/fair game by stopping someone doing gamesmanship/cheating.

    Your stance beggars belief in all honesty.
     

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