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AT700 for Beginners

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by DivingBirdie, Aug 5, 2006.

  1. DivingBirdie

    DivingBirdie Regular Member

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    I'm quite new to Badminton and do not have coaching.
    Well, but my first racket is an SP 3UG4 Yonex AT700 strung with a BG66 at 24lbs.

    I have enough strength but cannot seem to generate power to do a proper smash at all. Must I connect with the shuttle at the highest point possible (without jumping) and flick the wrist downwards followed by the arm? It seems to hurt my wrist quite a bit and so I don't think thats correct.
     
  2. Dummey

    Dummey Regular Member

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    Thats a pretty high tension for a begininer, but besides that I think the problem is that you are swinging too hard. When I first started, I would try to mimic the super hard smashes that I saw other people doing. I would swing pretty hard trying to force as much power as possible. That is however counter productive to a smash. Practice on getting smashes that are comfortable and not so much powerful then work up. You want to be able to hit the sweet spot on your racket else all that strength is wasted.

    As for the motion of the smash, I guess it would be like facing the racket head 45 degrees downward on contact slightly in front of you. For me, the birdie is a footish out of my reach if i reached up. It's hard to explain the motion of my smash. It's kinda like an around the head shot but reaching foward. I'm sure somebody else will follow up with a more coherent post =P
     
  3. dony_X

    dony_X Regular Member

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    hi, when you do a smash at full power, you do not flick your wrists for the shuttle do go downwards. when i was a beginner, i experienced the same problem. i was trying to flick my wrist when i am about to hit the shuttle, and so, after each game, my wrist hurt.. try download some badminton games, or, more appropriately, get a coach who could teah you the proper swing. you don't flick the wrist, instead you pronate your forearms. the pronation generates the most of the power, while i bend my wrist to change the direction of the shuttle. i really do suggest that you get a coach. having a racket strung at such high tension, while doing an incorrect stroke, can and will injure your arms. when my wrist hurt back then, i was using a racket at 15lbs. so just imagine what could happen to you. so my advice for you is, get a coach. and since your a beginner, i would try and concentrate on hitting the shuttle first, again with the proper stroke, and worry about the power later. coz power, comes from alot of factors. position, footwork, stroke, stamina. thanks. and hope that this helps. gud luck in your game.
     
  4. setaa

    setaa Regular Member

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    that's darn high tension mate. it would feel like 26 lbs with .68 gauge string. i'd suggest to lower it down low, at most 20-21 if i were you..
    when i came back to badminton, it thought i was "pretty good++" kind of dude, and came to the court with AT700 strung with bg-65 at 23 lbs without enough warming up and *snap* i injured my shoulder :eek:

    for the smash: think of a whip. when you whip it, the end that's close to your hand doesn't move fast right? but the other end moves so fast that it breaks sound barrier. so what you need to do is to simulate your arm as a whip because what you want is high acceleration when you hit the birdie and not high constant speed.
    swing your upper arm (relax) led by your elbow and then pronate your lower arm as fast as you can, aiming downward (upward, and you get a clear). given the proper timing and you hit the sweet spot you should break that sound barrier ...after lots of practices of course :p
    that's just for the arm motion, there are lots of other factors mentioned by dony which are more important

    hope that helped
     
  5. malayali

    malayali Regular Member

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    Relatively speaking 24 lbs may not be a high tension, but since u r not able to generate power in your smashes, try to reduce the tension next time when u get it strung. It is hard to say at what tension u will be able to get that power & hence u will need to experiment with different tensions to find out what is suitable for u.....
     
  6. DivingBirdie

    DivingBirdie Regular Member

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    Thanks! I'm glad the advices are pretty consistent..
    First thng I'm gonna do within this month prolly gonna restring BG66 at lower tensions, get a bigger grip.. quite unwilling to sacrifice the Yonex Ti7000 grip, because it's pretty pricey compared to most others.

    Also, I'm one of two person who has access to this account so.. :D
     
  7. GunBlade008

    GunBlade008 Regular Member

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    By the by, aside from slightly lowering your tension, you say that you flick your wrist THEN follow through with the arm. I think that you should follow through with the arm first followed by the wrist.
     
  8. ixiaohoui

    ixiaohoui Regular Member

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    I'm gonna agree a lot with dony and seta. Using the wrist has a primary method of generating your power is fairly weak, and should be used for smashes that you don't have time to setup for. Also, you'll hurt your wrist when the butt of the racket hits your wrist and also damage it by bending it too far. The forearm, by far, will generate more power when you get the timing.

    The best way by far is simply to practice. Get a full-length mirror, and swing as though you're doing a smash. Do it slowly. Most pros I see of video have 4 components, and you should either watch them closely or get a coach to help you.

    1. The first is the pullback: the elbow goes back and your body is facing perpendicular to the net (ex. if your a right hander, you face the right side of the court).
    2. The second is the windup: the forearm bends back, but the elbow doesn't move. Your elbow is basically like a lever that swings.
    3. The third is the whip: your arm whips forward. HOWEVER, the racket face doesn't face the bird. This is the major difference between wrist and forearm. Basically, it should be like your swinging a hammer. The face of the racket should be perpendicular to the floor, not facing the floor (so basically if you were to hit the bird at this point, you'd either miss or hit the frame).
    4. The last is the forearm. The forearm should rotate at a 45ish degree angle and come to face the floor. This is the KEY to generating the power. If you do this correctly, these 4 steps should look pretty smooth along with the followthrough.

    Just as a note, you should be able to smash without using 100% of your energy but still have it go down and fairly fast. So yea, I won't say this is entirely right, but I tried to do my best to sum up what I've noticed from videos =).

    PS. forearm rotation is really important. you should be able to clear baseline to baseline just by rotating your forearm and without the full arm movement. That's how powerful your forearm is compared to your wrist =).
     
  9. DivingBirdie

    DivingBirdie Regular Member

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    That is very clear! Thank you!
    I've been playing quite a bit nowadays, fairly okay with it now
     
  10. Monster

    Monster Regular Member

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    ixiaohoui has got pretty neat step-by-step guide. what i find confusing usually are the terms, pronation, supination etc

    how do i relate these jargons to what ixiaohoui has described above ?
     
  11. ixiaohoui

    ixiaohoui Regular Member

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    If I remember correctly (back my up guys), pronation is turning your forearm counterclockwise if your right handed, vice versa if your left handed. Supination is the reverse. So basically, if you hold out your racket hand, your forearm should rotate clockwise or counterclockwise if you're right or left handed, respectively.

    Oh btw, your torso should also rotate when your swing. Hope I didn't confuse you guys =).
     
  12. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    To generate power you need leverage, and the bigger the swing the greater the leverage. Forearm rotation, pronation for forehand shots and supination for backhand shots, by itself, without any leverage, is powerless. Just look at your swing, and as you hit a forehand shot, try to imagine that you are pronating your forearm. This pronation actually throws your racquet hand outwards towards your intended target, thus giving you added power. If you use your wrist for this pronated shot you will get even more effortless power. Now try the same swing but this time with your forearm supinating (clockwise). This actually throws your racquet inwards towards your body at the end of the swing, thus robbing and wasting the leverage that you have initially created with your swing.
    Supination for the backhand does exactly the same thing.
    Pronation and supination of the forearm (forearm rotation) have very similar effects to a racquet's balance point, where head-heaviness has a tendency to throw the racquet away from you and too light-head tends to throw the racquet inwards towards your body.
     
  13. Monster

    Monster Regular Member

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    Sorry but am I confusing myself or are you guys actually contradicting each other ? I mean Taneepak and ixiaohoui. Pronation for forearm, but pronation means twisting or torquing your forearm counter-clockwise? If it meant clockwise without "counter", I would not be confused.

    Let me re-phrase based on my understanding instead and let you guys correct my statement wrt pronate and supinate. So no heavy details on position of body and gripping for now. Assuming right handed,

    1. To perform a forearm smash w/o torso rotation - Legs in position, body facing perpendicularly to net and when time is right, twist the forearm while gripping the racket tightly in a CLOCKWISE direction and bang the bird. Thus, I am pronating my forearm. When I do so, I feel my biceps contracted. Analogous to right hand opening a door knob.

    2. To return a backhand shot - I twist my forearm ANTI-CLOCKWISE (or counter clockwise) and bang the bird. Thus, I supinate my forearm and my biceps aren't contracting at all.

    Guys, so far am I getting my jargons right ?

    Assuming I am right, the swinging part is suggesting that I swing with my shoulder as the fulcrum, later followed by a split second snap of the forearm twisting clockwise (opening the door knob) or the term, pronating my forearm ? Taking apart the pronating component away (or supinating if I am wrong about the twist direction), the swinging bit of the ideal smashing process can be thought of as throwing an egg to the floor and splat ! Remember, I am dissecting smashing into 2 components, one for twist (pronate/supinate whatever) and two for swing. I know there maybe more to consider, but let's not complicate things further for now.

    Am I right on the thinking track ?
     
  14. maa2003

    maa2003 Regular Member

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    Boss where you bought your AT700 3UG4 ?
    I hv tried to search, but mostly is 4U one .......

     
  15. DivingBirdie

    DivingBirdie Regular Member

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    I bought it at 10/10 about a month ago, and that was supposedly the last one.
    I had wanted to get a new piece because I didn't want one on display.

    I'm trying to improve on smashes still. Tiring, but it should be rewarding, that must be the reason I chose the AT700 as my first racket
     
  16. ixiaohoui

    ixiaohoui Regular Member

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    hey monster,

    taneepak and I probably took where you're standing into account for the clockwise/counterclockwise rotation. This link sorta clarifies
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronation
    If you go down to forearm, it shows that pronation rotates so the palm is facing down, and facing up for supination.
     
  17. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    Pronation means rotating your forearm from right to left (anti-clockwise), and supination means turning the same forearm from left to right (clockwise). This works for racquet sports. For other sports like discus throwing it is different. The key is not just the rotation of the forearm. It is to hit or throw something that flies away from your body instead of coming back to you like a boomerang. In badminton it is the proper rotation of the forearm. In discus throwing it is the spinning of your body and a clockwise action throw from your hand (there is no forearm rotation) so that the discus can be hurled away from your body spinning clockwise to ensure that it does not boomerang back, as spinning it anti-clockwise would do. Forget about the use of the words pronation and supination, as they are too specific and can be wrongly used in other sports. Just look at the fundamental-look for a throw or swing action that throws the damn thing away from you with the least effort and without any effort wasted to bring it back, like supination in a forehand stroke.
     
  18. Monster

    Monster Regular Member

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    Thanks ixiaohoui. Still want to be sure, if I use the terms as how they were described in wikipedia, that means in my earlier post then;

    (1) 1. To perform a forearm smash w/o torso rotation - Legs in position, body facing perpendicularly to net and when time is right, twist the forearm while gripping the racket tightly in a CLOCKWISE direction and bang the bird. Thus, I am pronating my forearm. When I do so, I feel my biceps contracted. Analogous to right hand opening a door knob. <------- This statement would have my "pronating" replaced by "Supinating" ? Or actually, the whole movement is incorrect?

    Likewise for point no 2, "supinate" replaced by "pronate" ? Or again, the whole dynamics is wrong regardless of the two jargons ?

    After reading more, I feel a bit confused. So two more questions for you guys. I tried two ways of smashing. Let's ignore the swinging of shoulder bit for now. Concentrate on the wrist. I tried;

    1. Smashing with my wrist "knocking on the door" movement. Well, not really knocking on the door but if you imagine the motion of knocking on a door and you rotate your clenched fist slightly clockwise (say from 12 O'Clock to 1 O'Clock position).

    2. Smashing with my wrist "turning the door knob" or "starting my car engine" movement.

    The former seems easier to coordinate with my shoulder swing than the latter.

    Am I doing what you guys think is the proper way if I use the former? Or is there a third kind of wrist motion?
     
  19. Monster

    Monster Regular Member

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    Just realised after reading ixiaohoui's earlier guide to his smashing from video observations, that my questions on door knob and knocing on the door probably could be answered myself.

    The forearm rotation, the last bit is a pronation motion and means that you are opening the door knob counter clockwise as opposed to how we normally open the door. Am I right this time ?
     
  20. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    I think you have got it. A simpler way to demonstrate this is to put your right arm with clenched fist out in front of you. Turn your fist and rotate your forearm inwards (anti-clockwise) and it is called pronation. Now try it with the fist and arm rotating outwards, in a clockwise direction, and it is called supination.
    Also, do you know that there is a technique that combines both supination and pronation, in that order, for the mother of all power forehand shots?
     

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