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BadmintonWarehouse.com/ Victor/ outdoor questions net from noob

Discussion in 'Badminton Rackets / Equipment' started by tuna1, Apr 17, 2004.

  1. tuna1

    tuna1 Regular Member

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    Hello. I'm thinking about getting into the sport, starting with buying a net that I can set up in my yard for playing this spring/summer and buying a nice racquet to start out with. I have a lot of friends who also became addicted to badminton in only the ~30 minutes a day that we get to play in PE for the duration of the unit. Anyways, I did some research and one of the first badminton stores that I found was badmintonwarehouse.com. It looks like a pretty good professional job, plus they're maybe 30 miles max away from me, so in case I need any service it shouldn't be hard. Has anyone had any experiance with this store? Good/bad?

    Anyways, what got me a little nervous about them is that they push Victor REALLY hard. They have the complete lineup that can be found on Victor's German website (which is strangely extremely different the lineup that can be found on Victor N.A's poor excuse for a website.) badmintonwarehouse.com always has Victor first on the page, on top of the other brands. They refer to them as the "BMWs of badminton racquets", and offer models from $16 to $140. They package Victor racquets with all the starter kits that they sell too.

    Anyways it just got me a little suspicious because Victor isn't even listed on the review section of this website and references to the brand on the forum usually refer to them as lower-end models for beginners and people wanting something that they can bang up, not something that could go head to head with a top-end Yonex or Carlton. Is this true? Is anyone familiar with Victor's German lineup, the models that badmintonwarehouse.com seems to be selling, like their "Magan" high-end line or even their less expensive ones?

    I did a search but there honestly wasn't much victor-related discussion.

    Finally, what product would you guys recommend for a an outoor badminton court? I know that its primarily an indoor sport, but I really just want to be able to play with my friends whenever I feel like it. I know from trial that everything sold at sportmart etc is crap, but are there any kits that come to mind as being durable, regulation size, and high quality? I know that badmintonwarehouse.com is selling a kit by Victor for posts and net for $23, but it looks just as crappy and if the poles arent gonna stand up straight or are going to get nocked over in the wind then I might be better off building my own net posts with stuff from a hardware store and buying a Vinyl net online (or something like that).

    Anway, thanks for all the help
     
  2. nutty

    nutty Regular Member

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    Don't have much time, and just had a quick skim, but I can guarantee you that Victor is a reputable brand, and you shouldn't have many problems with them. I've never tried the German lineup before though, since all the ones in Asia are from Taiwan, but I don't think they should be inferior in anyway. Hope you enjoy the game :) and welcome to the boards :)
     
  3. bluejeff

    bluejeff Regular Member

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    Victor is a big company who makes LOTs of badminton racquets, shoes, grips, strings, nets, boards, bags, shuttles, shirts, pants......etc.
    I would say Victor is a reputable brand, as there are tons of people using it in Asia. If you say Yonex is NO.1 in badminton world, then I will have to tell you that Victor is No.2 for sure.
     
  4. tuna1

    tuna1 Regular Member

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    I trust you guys for sure, but its just so hard to get a good idea of a comparison between different racquets for me because there are really more than a dozen big companies, all with big lineups of all kinds of different racquets. For example, how can I compare the Victor Magan SQ1000 ($125) vs a Yonex MP99 (~$190) in terms of characteristics? Is there a website? Its pretty much impossible to compare using manufacturer specs as its all loaded down with marketing bullcrap. Is there a website? I know that this website has a lot of reviews, and a lot of reviews for Yonex racquets, but none for Victors. Not that I was considering spending that much on a racquet anyway, but just as an example of what I am asking: how can a make an accurate comparison between all these racquets from so many manufacturers?

    Also, anyone have any experiance with outdoor nets? How about badmintonwarehouse.com?
     
  5. bluejeff

    bluejeff Regular Member

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    You don't make any comparisons just by looking at the numbers/data. You have to use them yourself to tell the differences and what you like is really personal preferences. Price don't always do the justice, otherwise people should always buy the most expensive rackets.
    For Yonex rackets, one of the reasons they are so expensive is the marketing. Their marketing strategies and along with the $ they spent at AD, make their product become so expensive.
    Victor is probably trying to catch up with Yonex with less price on the tag to attract more customers. So, a $125 Victor racket doesn't mean that it will be bad or worse than a $190 Yonex racket. You really have to find someone trust-worthy who have tried those rackets you want to compare, or you have to try them yourself, in order to find your answers.
     
  6. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    It is not true that Yonex racquets are more expensive because of their high marketing costs, just like it is not true that the selling price of any product or service is cost-driven. If it were true, you would turn economics principle on its head! The only thing that costs, including marketing, advertising, etc, cost will impact on is your profit margin. Do you know that the Yonex badminton string BG65 is the most expensive string to produce but is sold at much lower prices than some of their exotic strings which are much cheaper to produce? Come on, the selling price of any product or any service is strictly market-driven.
     
  7. cappy75

    cappy75 Regular Member

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    That maybe putting it too simplistic. Yonex is an established global brand, it's highly marked up because, to certain extent, that's what people expect it to be, just like BMWs and other luxury prestige-laden cars. There's public expectations to be met as perceived quality items are usually deemed more expensive. Being a leader in the industry, Yonex don't need pricing to maintain its market share. They got there by being dominant in the public awareness and being at the forefront of research and introducing new technology into the badminton market (More marketing than R&D:D).

    IMO, marketing and R&D are significant additional costs to the selling price. Manufacturing cost comes down once they produced enough number of products... basic economy of scale. So it doesn't take much to manufacture racquets, but more are being spent to make them known.
     
  8. bluejeff

    bluejeff Regular Member

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    If you think the price is just made by marketing only, then, you are thinking stuff way too easy. I can just ask you one simple question and your statement will be crushed. That is:

    Do you think AD cost no money at all? (Yes/No question)

    Obviously, AD cost money, and probably cost more money than you can imagine. Remember Yonex have all kinds of sponsorships on players, that's AD and that's money. Yonex holds open games, and that's money. And further more, guess what, in Japan, Yonex do have TV commercials, and I guess that should at least cost some money. All of those you think are free? Think twice.
     
  9. bluejeff

    bluejeff Regular Member

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    Another you might want to know is, in real world, companies tend to spend 2X money on AD than manufactoring. What's so good about making good products, but can NOT sell it. AD often cost more than 2X of manufactoring than manufactoring.

    A great example:
    Cell phones.

    Do you know how much it cost to make a Nokia 8860 Phone?
    Fact: Much Less than 500NT/each (or $15USD)
    AD for it: More than Millions, considering Nokia commercials are nearly everywhere. Seen superbowl? there you go, 2 millions are gone. ....etc.
    Price: more than $300+ USD (at least) in major markets I know of.
     
  10. cappy75

    cappy75 Regular Member

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    Another excellent example would be the culturally phenomenal Coca-cola. They are selling sweetened water basically, and yet they spend millions on marketing.

     
  11. tuna1

    tuna1 Regular Member

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    Marketing expenses can be figured into retail price because people react to marketing by either thinking that they want the product because its better than others (if that was the goal of the marketing) or because its cooler than other products. A great example is Nike- the reason that they can put $3 in parts, labor, and R&D into a shoe and then sell it for $120 is because there are a lot of people who just won't wear anything but Nike, no matter the cost, because its "cool". Their ads are everywhere, in every sport magazine, on mainstream TV, they practically sponsor the top few players in every sport that they make equipment for, etc.

    So I'd definately believe that Yonex is slightly "overpriced" (in comparison to brands that make similar quality racquets) because they spend a lot on marketing. However, its definately working for them, because despite Yonex being the most expensive racquet, it seems like half the people on this site use them. You can't even get a review for 70% of the racquets in production, but every single Yonex has several.
     
  12. bigredlemon

    bigredlemon Regular Member

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    i've tried sweetened water before and it's nowhere near as good. I hear they still use sugar from sugar canes in some countries... all we get is cheap corn syrup in Canada/US.
     
  13. bigredlemon

    bigredlemon Regular Member

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    i wouldn't say they are #2.... except maybe in size. I'd say they're the Toyota of racquets. They make some nice racquets performance wise but the quality control is lacking in some of the racquets i've seen.
     
  14. tuna1

    tuna1 Regular Member

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    What does that mean? Isn't Toyota the number 2 car brand in the world for quality... right behind Lexus, their luxury division? This is confusing, but at least I've gotten somewhere: I can trust that Victor isn't crap, and is actually good price/performance compared to massive companies like Wilson, Prince, and Yonex.
     
  15. bluejeff

    bluejeff Regular Member

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    I don't see much of other companies making the same as Victor (except Yonex).
    Victor makes pretty much everything in Badminton, and the reason I think they are #2 just based on the overall.

    Carlton-> no enough of products to make them #2.
    MMOA->lots of products, but only popular in TW, far away from #2.
    Karakal->OK, but the same reason as Carlton, not enough of products.
    BK, Alpha, Ashaway, Winex, are all nice companies, but just falls short comparing to Victor.

    Is there any others might come close to #2 spot besides Victor?

    PS: for the No.2 spot, you have to at least making rackets, shuttles, strings, shoes, grips, court equipments, bags, clothes, and sponserships on players to qualify. (Otherwise people would think, That No.2 company doens't even make badminton shoes :p)
     
  16. calvinlgoh

    calvinlgoh Regular Member

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    Gosen might be No.2 :D

    calvin
     
  17. bluejeff

    bluejeff Regular Member

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    Do they make shoes? ;)

    http://www.gosen.com/ only states rackets, strings, bags, shuttles, grips.
     
  18. Lee

    Lee Regular Member

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    VictorSite

    If you want to look at the asian models of the Victor brand, go to http://www.victorsport.com

    They are comparable with any of the top yonex's in my opinion.
     
  19. calvinlgoh

    calvinlgoh Regular Member

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    :D :D Got me there... i cant find them anywhere but i remembeer seeing them somewhere before..

    oh well...

    calvin
     
  20. bigredlemon

    bigredlemon Regular Member

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    Black knight does a lot more than you think. And they do it very well. The quality of their products is far superior to Victor. (But they aren't popular outside of Canada because they only export low end models to other countries. :p )

    BK does everything except make shoes. (They make strings under the ashaway for them in Canada.) The badminton shoes victor has looks to be of very poor quality relative to the competition--i can't see why anyone would wear them... they aren't even that cheap price-wise.

    I stand by my statement that Victor may be #2 in size, it's definetly not #2 in quality. Kind of like Toyota... it's a nice car, but it's no lexus or mercedes.
     
    #20 bigredlemon, Apr 18, 2004
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2004

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