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BAM warns Mohd Hafiz Hashim & Kuan Beng Hong

Discussion in 'Malaysia Professional Players' started by chris-ccc, Jan 31, 2009.

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  1. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Different coaches have different ways of selecting players

    .
    ctjcad ... What was written in the title bar of your above post is ^^It's a grind, but getting there..^^.

    But sadly, we won't be getting there. :p:p:p
    Because there are 2 main differences in our opinions.

    Your opinion: We need only to look at their bad results at International tournaments.
    My opinion: We need to look at many different factors other than just tournament results.

    Your opinion: If they are not doing well at International tournaments, they should go.
    My opinion: They should go only when younger players have become as skillful as them.

    .
     
  2. koo_fan

    koo_fan Regular Member

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    Chris vs Chris,huh?
    ChrisCCC,if you hoped Misbun would take a concern on other aspects as well.Have the last word.U are entitled for it.

    I'm with the other Chris on this.If they want their position in our top team,make sure they are fit for it.
    This should be done by do-or-die approachment.
     
  3. Oldhand

    Oldhand Moderator

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    Unfortunately, their major success record has only these two wins.
    That doesn't say much about their ability to win big consistently :cool:
     
  4. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Misbun would have sleepless nights

    .
    koo_fan ... What I know about the MAS team is that there is an internal ranking or standing in terms of performance at their training camp. HH and KBH are still ranked higher than most of the younger ones. If the younger ones can topple HH and KBH at their training camp, then HH and KBH should not be there.

    Let us look at these 4 different scenarios (talking about International tournament results):

    (1) If HH and KBH go, and the younger ones do well at International tournaments, then BAM/Misbun have done it right

    (2) If HH and KBH go, and the younger ones don't well at International tournaments, then BAM/Misbun have failed

    (3) If HH and KBH stay, and the younger ones don't well at International tournaments, then BAM/Misbun will still put pressure on HH and KBH

    (4) If HH and KBH stay, and the younger ones do well at International tournaments, then BAM/Misbun will definitely have to allow the younger ones to take over


    By the way, sooner or later, HH and KBH would have to go because of their age. But when BAM put a time frame limit for Misbun to make his recommendation (within the next few months), only Misbun would have sleepless nights.
    .
     
    #84 chris-ccc, Feb 5, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
  5. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Okay..

    It is fine about the "Your opinion" and "My opinion" replies, that's fine by me. I understand & i don't mind. Here's a teh tarik for ya..;)

    Correction on the first one. I definitely did not mention "let look at the 'bad' results". I only mention, let's look at their results/accomplishments.
    You are spot-on, on the second one. Do you really want to keep players who are not performing or showing any progress, not over 1 yr but several yrs??..

    But before we are off to our own ways on this topic, do you mind expounding or giving your answer on the 2 questions in my post above?

    1. But, if, as you wrote a few times that HH & KBH are "better" or doing "better" than their younger teammates, really, how much "better" are KBH & HH compared to the MAS juniors?? Any titles to show for?..

    2. If you think BAM doesn't think KBH & HH are not working hard enough, do tell me/us, in your opinion, how and on what basis does BAM think KBH & HH are not working hard enough?..

    No matter how different coaches have their own ways/little set of criterias of selecting players, i'm sure you and others know & acknowledge the bottom line is the player's results in the tournaments they've been sent to (other than a having personal or injury reasons). Heck, even BAM realizes this, thus the whole point of their current "warning".

    And why would Misbun have sleepless nights?? I'm sure he can judge by what he sees; after all both HH & KBH are not newcomers. Shouldn't HH & KBH be the ones who should have sleepless nights as they're the ones being "warned" by BAM??..:confused:

    *koo_fan, maybe my point in all this might come across as a bit vague. All i was trying to figure out is why is BAM giving a warning to HH & KBH and setting a timetable for those 2 players for a review? There must be some reason behind it. But you probably saw it from a mile away.;)
     
    #85 ctjcad, Feb 5, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
  6. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Until the younger ones can topple HH and KBH, HH and KBH should stay

    .
    Yes, the "Your opinion" and "My opinion" reply was meant to make clearer what we are discussing. Sometimes we bring in other things, and our discussion goes nowhere.
    See, here is an example. Every one can tell that HH and KBH have not been doing well at International tournaments, therefore 'bad' results. My comment on this is that even though their results are bad, I don't think the younger ones can do any better at the present moment.
    Until the younger ones can topple HH and KBH, HH and KBH should stay, IMHO.
    1. Both HH and KBH, and the younger teammates do not have any titles to show lately. But when these players play each other, HH and KBH still stay on top. As it was mentioned before, if the younger ones can topple HH and KBH in matches amongst themselves, then it will be easier for BAM/Misbun to make decisions, that is, it's time for HH and KBH to go.

    2. Again, this is very subjective. BAM (including Misbun and myself) think that HH and KBH can do better. But they have repeatedly let us down. Therefore BAM is saying that HH and KBH are not working hard enough.


    In many countries their National No.1 (including your USA) get no good results. Is it better for countries to sack their National No.1 and replace them with their No.2, 3, etc... every year?
    Because Misbun knows that HH and KBH can do better.
    .
     
    #86 chris-ccc, Feb 5, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
  7. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

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    still no one can beat kbh in term of stamina...i think...:D...and no one can beat hh on creative return(ie send shutter out side double line...:p...joke)...not many mj can return hh smash...:(
     
  8. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Okie dokie..

    1. Well, apparently BAM has a different idea now as they have issued a "warning" to HH & KBH, don't they??
    2. Replace the top player every yr? Definitely not, and no one is saying every yr. But review them after several yrs, definitely.
    3. Thank you for the replies to the 2 questions. And thank you once again for confirming and acknowledging that BAM and even Misbun are looking at their tournaments' results; i hope that's what you meant by "can do better". There's definitely no denying and no hiding from that fact. ;)

    Here's another teh tarik for ya..;)
     
    #88 ctjcad, Feb 5, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
  9. badadum

    badadum Regular Member

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    I know you're talking strictly badminton here, but that comment isn't true for many sports in the USA. Here, results = everything. Plenty of players and coaches are fired/traded/let go despite decent record....

    If the best that KBH and HH can do is 1st or 2nd round exit, if that's truly their ceilings now, what's the point of keeping them? Might as well dedicate the time and funds to train other MS.
     
  10. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    ^^Some..^^

    ..would even say "It's about time or it's long overdue for BAM to do something with HH's & KBH's presence in the national team"..
     
  11. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Eastern cultures are different from the Western ones

    .
    Yes, Eastern cultures are different from the Western ones.

    Perhaps, the Eastern Badminton Associations have more patience. Let's look at some 'well-known' players in Eastern countries who have not done well at tournaments, but not sacked.

    From INA: TH ... who at one time appeared to be going downhill
    From CHN: BCL ... who is known as Mr Runner-Up
    From MAS: HH ... who is known as Mr Yo-Yo
    etc...

    In the Western world, these players would have been replaced already.
    In the Eastern world, these players still get many second chances.

    :):):)
    .
     
    #91 chris-ccc, Feb 5, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
  12. badadum

    badadum Regular Member

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    Heh, I think I'm quite familiar with the so-called Eastern culture. ;)

    TH was still the 06 AG champ, and performance wise, still in the top 10 of MS the world...(at the very least he still able to win a title last couple of year)
    BCL....well, he's definitely in the top 10 of the world any given day.... he just have ridiculous record when it comes to final... :p

    Now compare that HH and KBH.....errr...where the heck is the comparison again???
     
  13. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    TH, BCL, HH, KBH, etc... are still doing OK

    .
    Agree ... IMHO, TH, BCL, HH, KBH, etc... are still doing OK, even though not winning many titles. Therefore, let them continue to stay, and not to be sacked.
    .
     
  14. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

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  15. eaglehelang

    eaglehelang Regular Member

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    and ctjcad,
    1) Badadum, Sairol & LTS are with KLRC, not BAM, hence no warnings to them, :p. LTS does manage to win 1 or 2 GP titles a year.

    2) THis year, it has already been stated by the National Sports Council that budget is reduced for tourneys. A player/pair only get to go 8 to max 10 tourneys a year, not 12 like it used to. Therefore, with less budget, the seniors like Hafiz, KBH will be next to go, allowing more spots for youngsters to come up.
    Hafiz should be same age with LCW = 26. KBH = 25. They have had many years to prove themselves.

    3) Although the youngsters have improved, when they play each other in local tourneys/international tourneys, they have lost to Hafiz or KBH. Only recently at the National GP, they (meaning TCS, CWF, Arif, Daren) have managed to beat KBH, Hafiz.
     
  16. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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  17. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    If the youngsters can beat HH and KBH consistently, then Misbun won't need to ponder

    .
    And Sairul & LTS managed to win some titles (from smaller tournaments) without BAM. So, even if they were with BAM, we won't think that they would get a warning like what HH and KBH had received.
    Agree ... It depends on BAM's budget too, which is another factor that Misbun has got to think about.
    This is what Misbun is waiting for. If the youngsters can beat HH and KBH consistently, then Misbun won't need to ponder anymore. The selection of MAS teammates to participate at international tournaments would be made so much simpler.
    .
     
  18. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Yup..

    (the 3rd M'sian BCer has spoken)..
    Your last sentence, above, sums it up pretty well..
    And when one really thinks about it, isn't that the whole point of BAM's current "warning" to both HH & KBH??..:confused:;)
     
  19. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    Totally agree with your excellent observations.
    HH should have been canned 2 years ago simply because he has shown that he can lose to anyone and has no competitive spirit.He would be more useful as a sparring partner.He would enjoy that more as the fitness requirement is less and he can maximise on his trickshots which would be ideal training for mental alertness.
    KBH, however, has been causing upsets.This indicates something positive has got into his system and he should be given maximum opportunities to improve his ranking.He will still splutter but will make slow and steady progress and be a worthy MAS MS no 2.But he has to work harder on his physical conditioning because his match confidence follows from that.
    I wonder how physical fitness is fixed for BAM players.Is it the job of the badminton coach or physical fitness coach?
     
  20. koo_fan

    koo_fan Regular Member

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    But, you guys must also be known that Malaysia is having problem to replace Hafiz with other new players 2 years back.
    But now, BAM now got TCS and the gang to be a good back-up team.
     
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