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better camera angles for badminton broadcast

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by kwun, Feb 3, 2005.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    i am going to spawn a new thread off this thread:

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20334

    many have mentioned that badminton needs more camera angles, i totally agree with it. but i don't think we have dig into it deep enough. we only mentioned more angles, but nothing specific has been mentioned yet. so this thread would serve that purpose.

    the standard camera angle nowadays is the far courtend view. or maybe we should call it the tennis view. imho, although this angle provides good coverage of the whole court, it compresses a lot of dynamics of the shuttle and player's movement, esp for the play in the far court.

    then there are the closeup side view of the player from the side lines. they are good for snippets of action, but the narrow coverage means that it won't show the whole rally well.

    one angle that isn't popular is the far side view, or may i call it the basketball view. this view gives even coverage of both sides of the court and while compresses the court sideways, it will be able to show the movement of the players quite well.

    example of other views are the far diagonal view. it shows a different perspective of the rally in play.

    top view was used briefly in the 1999 SC/WC. it was a novel angle, but unfortunately destroyed the 3D nature of the game.

    any other ones?

    as a reference, attached is a diagram of the camera locations used in the TC/UC2004.
     

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  2. Big Slick

    Big Slick Regular Member

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    How about a tiny camera in the net? Perhaps the net would need to be modified but if the camera was below the tape then it wouldn't have much effect on the game. Squash has that view from the front wall and cricket has a camera in one of the stumps. I think these views are very interesting...
     
  3. libra

    libra Regular Member

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    I personally like camera 5 or is it 6? - The diagonal view leaves out some detail but it's also the most realistic IMHO.
     
  4. ants

    ants Regular Member

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    I guess it will be better if they can put those IMAX cameras on the courts... you can definately view the shots and footwork better.
    I think this has been applied in American football and even some NBA games
     
  5. wirre

    wirre Regular Member

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    I have no idea about camera angles since badminton is a non-existent sport on TV in Sweden and I haven't been downloading any videos.

    But I still think the most important is that IBF take the responsibility to provide the production so it is made even and *competent* from all the tournaments. This should be the case for all 5-7*, AE and WC.

    Like when watching fotball or tennis the broadcasting can vary so much in quality you'd think you are watching different sports, even if it is the *same teams/players* playing:eek:

    Compare this with snooker, in which the pro-tour provides all the production and thus an excellent quality all the time.

    /mats
     
  6. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    i made a crude 3D model of a typical badminton tournament setup. with the model, i can experiment with different camera angles and views. i played around with it and did a few renderings.

    the first one is the standard rear view. the camera location is modeled after the TC/UC2004 camera location with very similar perpective.
     

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  7. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    the next two are corner view. not very popular as a main view, it was used in the Dutch Open 2004. i didn't try to duplicate exactly the Dutch Open camera setup here, i only tried from two different elevations.
     

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  8. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    the next model is a side view from a low angle. the side view isn't used at all in badminton tournaments. but popular in basketball and volleyball.

    it is clear that the lower angle doesn't provide a lot of screen coverage. much of the space is wasted empty space.
     

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  9. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    i moved the camera higher, this time it provides a better screen coverage. but the location of the camera is not very convenient as it will be hanging in midair for most large venues.

    the second one is when the camera is placed in a more realistic location, now the problem is the same, the angle is lower and the distance too far, compressing any perspective in the view.
     

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  10. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    here is a fun angle that is in line with what Big Slick suggested. a camera right next to the net looking up at the players.
     

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  11. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    the last one is a rear view that is modeled after the 2003 Singapore Open camera location. the placement of the camera is more than double the distance as the TC/UC2004 camera placement as well as higher. as a result of the tele lens, perspective is lost and it made the viewing less pleasurable.
     

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  12. Mag

    Mag Moderator

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    In my opinion, the All England productions from 2000 onwards are the best in terms of lighting, camera angles, sound, and replays. One of the nice things about the AE productions is that the main view is actively panned and zoomed with the action. This does make a lot of difference.

    The WC 2003 was very similar, and had an identical main view to the 2004 AE, which leads me to believe that the same production company was involved:
     

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    #12 Mag, Feb 4, 2005
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2005
  13. Mag

    Mag Moderator

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    Danish Open is also a great tournament in terms of production, pretty similar to the AEs. But in 2000, one can see that the camera is much higher and has a wider lens than the AE. I think this is great for depth, but gives less sense of the height of shots.
     

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    #13 Mag, Feb 4, 2005
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2005
  14. Mag

    Mag Moderator

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    Another interesting main view that we don't see too often nowadays, is when the main camera is placed slightly off center. In my opinion, this gives very nice perception of depth and height in the left side of the image, but works less well when the shuttle is played near the right sideline.

    This angle seems to have been more popular in the 80s (first image below), but was used as late as 1999 in the Danish Open (2nd image below):
     

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  15. Mag

    Mag Moderator

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    One of the best "main views" yet is, in my opinion, the latest Copenhagen Masters. The main view is shot fairly close to the court, not too high, and with a wider lens than normal the above. I suspect this was done more out of necessity than will to change, as this year's arena is smaller and has a lower ceiling than previous years.

    Anyway, it works really well, and gives a great feeling of depth and height. (Sound wasn't perfect though, too much ambience)

    Can anybody provide a picture of this setup? (My tapes aren't digitized yet)
     
  16. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    interesting to learn that Mag like the Danish Open 1999 camera angle which is also high. i look at the net cord with respect to the baseline. the baseline in both the Singapore Open case and Danish Open case are below the double service line, which indicates a high camera angle.

    this may mean that the important factor isn't the vertical angle but instead the perspective of the view.

    if that's the case, then the distance of the camera location plays a vital role as that controls the perspective.

    i also like the off-center view. to note is that both the Danish Open 2000 and the WC camera angles are also off-center, although to a much smaller degree.
     
  17. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    will be interested to find out how this view look like.

    so far we haven't have much break through in finding a dramatically better viewing angle than what has already been tried.

    perhaps the key is to have a combination of multiple angles and then changes scene among them during the rally.

    pretty much agree with you that the AE/WC2003 were done by the same media company. they have the same style, and like to use panning during a rally to induce motion into the screen. i static camera tends to be rather dull.

    and afterall, AE/WC2003 were held in the same city/hall...
     
  18. Tomsk

    Tomsk Regular Member

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    Nice gfx Kwun. How about doing another set based on a 16:9 ratio as this looks to be the future standard for TV broadcasts.

    Personally for TV I prefer the end views - like 2004 AE - for the live action, but lower and closer views for slow-motion replays.

    I'm not keen on changing camera angles, other than some panning, during rallies.

    In the future I expect we will be able to choose from different viewpoints.
     
  19. Han

    Han Regular Member

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    Camera angles

    Hi:
    Attached are the few camera angles used frequently in Copenhagen Master 2004.
     

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  20. Han

    Han Regular Member

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    Camera angles

    Forgot to mention
    Picture 1: Overall camera covering full court, used mainly during each play
    Picture 2: Follow up camera used mainly on replay
    Picture 3: Baseline camera used mainly on replay
    Picture 4: Netplay camera used mainly on replay
    Picture 5 & 6 : Service/closeup camera use while player served and after each play ended
     

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