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Beware of forum member "chirigamii"

Discussion in 'Market Place' started by 71Dragtruck, May 27, 2009.

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  1. 71Dragtruck

    71Dragtruck Regular Member

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    I recently bought a AT700 Limited off a forum member chirigamii, here is his fore sale post.

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70053

    As you can see all looks good and the pictures show a 10/10 condition racquet so a deal was made and payment sent.

    Now what the pictures just happen to leave out is the fact that one side of the cone i8s missing half of the paint, the original grip is gone and in it's place a worn out Apacs grip and glue all over the grip cap!!! Now to me this is not a "perfect condition, as like new" condition as stated in the his fore sale post. To say that I was VERY dissapointed is an understatement. Here is the PM I sent him letting him know what I thought.


    QUOTE
    "I recieved the racquet today and I am VERY dissapointed!!! Here is a quote from your for sale post

    Hi everybody, I sell a Yonex Armortec 700 limited edition in a perfect state, like if it was new, the racket is strung at 11kg (I think it must be around 24lbs). It's a FR coded racket bought in France, I sell it 135 usd (about 100 euros).

    Perfect state like if it was new????? There is a HUGE chip of paint gone from the cone!! And a like new perfect state condition would have the origanal grip still on, not a over grip on top of a worn grip. Your add and pictures were very misleading as to what a person was buying. How you failed to show the huge piece of missing paint in your photos was soooo dishonest. I bought this racquet to have as a collector piece and was likely never going to use it, I bought it from you because you said it was in perfect condition.

    I'll wait for a response from you before I file a complaint with Paypal forwarding them your add and then piuctures of the racquet, I will further more be posting up on the forum a warning to others and pictures of this "perfect state, as like new" item for all to see how you do business "
    QUOTE

    In responce this is what I got back from him.


    QUOTE
    "Perfect state means the racket is in a perfect condition to play with, no scratches, the paint is perfect...In fact your only problem is the "sticker" of the grip, and the grip itself. I didn't think it could have such importance. The most important in a racket is the state of the shaft and the head. If you want a original grip you can easily buy one in a badminton shop (the armortec 700 limited grip was like the others, nothing special), it's easy to put. For the sticker, I'm sorry but if it was not a good quality but I didn't made the racket
    So my intention was not to sell a fake racket or a racket with hidden defaults, I am sorry but for me the racket was as desribed in the add. Inform paypal and badminton central if it can make you happy but it won't change anything for me, I don't think I did wrong business.
    I really hope you will be able to have nice play with your racket finally and not be so disapppointed."
    QUOTE

    As you can see his idea of perfect state is very different then every other human being I personally know. I would love to have the keys to his car or house for a day and return it to him in his meaning of perfect state!!

    So deal at your own risk, my opinion is if one is being perfectly honest when selling something, all defects will be disclosed to the buyer, and if pics are taken they will focus on these defects, not hide them. As far as I'm concerned he is a crook, dishonest lowlife scum that give internet buying a bad name, so be carefull with this guy!

    Here is a picture of the cone, sorry the quality is poor, my camera is messed up at the moment and won't focus on close pictures, but as youcan see it's paint not a sticker thats damaged. If really wanted I'll try with my Blackberry later when I get home from work. I'll give his personal info to anyone who wants it incase he changes his user name. I used my brothers paypal account to for payment so I'll have to get him to contact Paypal, but I doubt that will do any good as I've never heard anyone getting anywhere there.
     

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    #1 71Dragtruck, May 27, 2009
    Last edited: May 27, 2009
  2. Tornoni

    Tornoni Regular Member

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    To BCDF mods

    Mods,

    This is my suggestion.
    Can we have a Sub Forums in the Buy & Sell forum to handle cases like this?
    It will be more appropriate to have the "complain/warning" in Buy & Sell as the problem originally started from Buy & Sell.

    Thanks.
     
  3. Danstevens

    Danstevens Regular Member

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    +1.

    Something like the feedback section on Tennis Warehouse seems like a good idea. Once you'd made a trade/sale, you'd post feedback on the other member for future reference.
     
  4. 71Dragtruck

    71Dragtruck Regular Member

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    Yes most forums have a feedback section like that and I'd like to see one here as well, I posted this here because it was the onlyone I thought it fit in.
     
  5. Matt

    Matt Regular Member

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    Get ready to sue the seller for false advertising.
     
  6. jerby

    jerby Regular Member

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    Now, I really actually read all that... But really, take a day, and read your own post again... Is it really all that bad?

    You're not dealing with a company here, this is not a webshop selling you a product, it's just another person who has a racket he wants to sell.
    He has restrung the racket and you can quite clearly see he has played with it a few times... What did you expect?

    You can try and contact paypal, but I really don't see what they are going to do about it...What is it you want?
    Do you want to keep the racket AND get a refund? Does that really sound fair? Who is going to pay for the shipping/paypal charges if you return the racket?
    Again, you're not dealing with a business, but a person. If you want to go that far, talk to they guy, not to paypal and work it out.

    My solution: wrap a grip over it and stop worrying about a chip
    like this [​IMG]
    (or maybe not that high, just enough to cover the chip)

    Just one more thing: DO NOT hand out his personal information to anyone who asks, it's just wrong!
     
    #6 jerby, May 27, 2009
    Last edited: May 27, 2009
  7. Dreamzz

    Dreamzz Regular Member

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    from the 3rd post in this thread

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...ad.php?t=70053

    it is pretty hard to see the paint chip on the cone of the racquet. in hind sight, it does look as if the original grip has been removed, or an overgrip has been put on. i must say though, if the paint chip was there, i think the seller should have mentioned it. personally it would not have affected my decision to buy it, but others may not like it.
     
  8. Sketchy

    Sketchy Regular Member

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    Yes, the seller really should have mentioned that some of the paint was gone - I agree that it's not in factory-fresh mint condition.

    But still...
    ...is it really worth sending it back or making a big deal out of?

    Think about it like this - if he'd told you about the the paint chip beforehand, would you have bought it anyway? I'd say a paint chip like that knocks maybe $5-10 off the value of the racket. If it was a good buy before, it's still a good buy now, IMO.

    Clearly all that's happened is he's wrapped a grip up the cone, and then when he removed it, it took some of the paint with it - I've made the same mistake myself, and it's not going to affect the racket's playability or durability. Chips on the frame/shaft would have been a lot worse, as they might actually weaken the racket.

    I suggest you do exactly as Jerby suggests, and wrap your own grip over the cone (I'd recommend anyone to do that anyway).
    Maybe the seller will refund you the few $'s for a new grip, as a good-will gesture?
     
  9. Tornoni

    Tornoni Regular Member

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    Dreamzz,


    The buyer is referring to this .
    YY Yonex is peeled off half way.


    [​IMG]
     
  10. Tornoni

    Tornoni Regular Member

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    And not this paint chip that's between right of 6 and left of 1.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. 71Dragtruck

    71Dragtruck Regular Member

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    Hey jerby read a little closer, I bought it for a collectors item, I didn't plan on using it and was looking for a 10/10 condition raquet. Also if I did plan on using it I don't like my cones overgripped (that's what the seller did to hide the pealed paint), further more it would have effected the price i would have paid for it. Bottom line he should have told me about the damage and I would not have bought it!!! PERIOD ENOUGH SAID, he knew it was there and didn't say a thing, but should have.
     
  12. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Not intending to play with the racket, but to display it

    .
    IMHO, the problem is the seller, chirigamii, wasn't aware that the buyer, 71Dragtruck, was not intending to play with the racket, but to display it.

    Referring to chirigamis 's post;
    We can see that chirigamii was telling us that the racket has been used. The racket is not new, but like if it was new.

    We can also see that chirigamii was telling us that the racket is in a perfect state for playing.

    Referring to 71Dragtruck 's post;
    A 'perfect condition for play' is not the same as a 'perfect condition for display'.

    Perhaps, if chirigamii realised that 71Dragtruck was intending to have the racket for display purposes only, then this transaction would not have taken place.

    Now that 71Dragtruck is so unhappy, perhaps the racket should be returned and chirigamii to refund the money. However, 71Dragtruck should pay for all postages involved, the sending and the returning.

    This is just my opinion.
    .
     
    #12 chris-ccc, May 27, 2009
    Last edited: May 27, 2009
  13. Dreamzz

    Dreamzz Regular Member

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    yup i know, i'm just saying that from this pic, it's hard to see the paint chip on the cone. this was the only picture of the cone supplied in the original sale thread.

     
  14. Karakalkat

    Karakalkat Regular Member

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    You can file a dispute with PayPal and they will help you settle the claim fairly...
    C. was wrong in hiding the missing decal from you....
    Suggestion: Buy a new decal from Yonex plus a new grip and keep the racket if the rest of it is as new...What came off is just a decal, no big deal...
    If you cant find one then contact me and I will help you get one....
     
  15. 71Dragtruck

    71Dragtruck Regular Member

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    I'll PM you for some information.
     
  16. bananakid

    bananakid Regular Member

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    Total ownage!!!:eek::cool::cool::cool:

    The lesson to be learned here is that there is a always a price to pay when you buy something from an individual online especially when the item is pre-used.:( $135USD for a perfect condition AT700LTD... kinda suspicious, don't you think?

    Just out of curiosity, just how much did you actually save by purchasing this used racket online compared to buying a brand new one at your local store?

    If it is less than $50... then all I can say is "TOTAL OWNAGE EARNED":p
     
  17. 71Dragtruck

    71Dragtruck Regular Member

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    It is a limited edition only made in 2008, couldn't get a new one from the place I deal so went looking for a used one.
     
  18. chirigamii

    chirigamii Regular Member

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    Ok I don't have time to waste for you and it's not very easy to write in english for me (I think everybody will see it:)).
    So I think many people on this forum explain exactly the situation. If you want a collector racket, just my advice : buy a new one with original plastic on the grip and you can consider yourself as a real "collectionneur".
    My intention was not to sell a broken racket or a false racket, I think I was honest because nobody tell me this racket was not for use and will finish up your bed with "Forbidden to touch it !!!!".
    Like someone told you in the forum, is it really all that bad?
    So call paypal, call the police or the army, I think I had been enough courteous with you.

    Oh a last thing, it was my last racket to sell, others rackets were already sold (and I never had a problem with other buyers), but it's kind of you to think of others "future" buyers.

    And one more time sorry for my english...:D
     
  19. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    The key is whether there was clear understanding about the usage, before finalizing the purchase.

    To me, if the buyer clearly indicated for "display", then, it's the seller's fault for not giving enough information about the paint. However, if the buyer never indicated "display only", then, it's the buyer's own fault, as from common sense, rackets are usually purchased for playing purpose, rather than "collection".

    Before bringing up to paypal, I think the buyer needs to give clear evidence (PM, email, mail, etc) to indicate he was clear about the usage. If he fails to provide such, I do not think the seller is at any fault, as the racket is clearly an used item.

    Seriously, even if report to Paypal, I seriously doubt what they can do about this. It's not a fraud about fake item or "no shipment". Cosmetic issues is an obviously common case for "used item". :rolleyes:
     
  20. chirigamii

    chirigamii Regular Member

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    Thanks LazyBuzzy, I think you are very "wisdom", this buyer never told me it was for a collection item.
    If only everybody could be like you...:)
     
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