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BWF to implement a replay system to check disputes over line calls

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by chris-ccc, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    .
    Badminton explores use of technology for 'hot' line calls

    Source: http://www.todayonline.com/Sports/S...explores-use-of-technology-for-hot-line-calls

    ====== * ====== part of article ====== * ======

    In an effort to minimise disputes over line calls, the Badminton World Federation (BWF) aim to implement a replay system in matches.

    Speaking to MediaCorp on the sidelines of the Li-Ning Singapore Open 2011, BWF deputy president Paisan Rangsikitpho said: "Sports like tennis use Hawk-Eye but it is quite expensive and badminton is much quicker and faster.

    "We are experimenting maybe with replay as it is much quicker now. We might do it like tennis where each player can challenge two times per match.

    "We are studying it, but the new rule will only come into effect after the 2012 Olympic Games."

    ====== * ====== * ====== * ====== * ======

    I was hoping that each player can challenge two times per game; but it wasn't the case.

    I was also hoping that this replay system could be ready before the 2012 London Olympic Games; but it wasn't the case either.
    :eek::eek::eek:

    .
     
  2. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Not in time for Oly 2012 but still a step in the right direction. Especially when instant replays are being shown anyways, so it is very obvious to everyone watching it if the linesman made a glaringly bad call.
     
  3. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Yeah I read about this as well from another source. I believe it was bought over by the Wisden group a few years ago. It's great for cricket. But the problem with Hawkeye is that the framerates it operates at may be insufficient for badminton, where the bird touches speeds in excess of 300 kph as opposed to cricket, where the maximum the ball can be expected to touch is 155-160 kph.

    Hawkeye uses 3d triangulation data to accurately predict direction, elevation and position at a given plane. The data store also contains pre-loaded data coordinates for the playing area, and the rules of the game. Other variables that may need to be included are wind drift and the effect this has on shuttle trajectory. For fast drops, the spin imparted to the shuttle also plays a significant role in the change in parabolic behaviour of the shuttle, especially as it nears its death area. All of this (and other variables) needs to be considered if Hawkeye is to be correctly implemented in badminton.
     
  4. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    But still a step in the right direction......

    .
    Yes, I agree; it is still a step in the right direction. :):):)

    And credit to BWF to have finally decided to implement this replay system.
    .
     
  5. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Using Hawk-Eye is quite expensive

    .
    As BWF have said; using Hawk-Eye is quite expensive, and therefore they won't be using it.
    .
     
  6. ricebowl

    ricebowl Regular Member

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    BWF is really getting better at this....
     
  7. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Yes, it's about time for BWF to implement this replay system (to check disputes over line calls). :):):)

    It's such a simple system that many of us think that it should have been implemented years ago. :p:p:p
    .
     
  8. shooting stroke

    shooting stroke Regular Member

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    A way forward move by BWF to solve bad line calls that has been a hot issue in many occasion. Bad line calls has been a hot and sensitive issue that has been debated numerous time and since the linesman or the umpire has the final decision on this, nothing much a player can do regardless how obvious the mistakes been done by them.

    By having this method embedded into any match,it will facilitate proper decision making in any bad line call and most importantly it can allow also any player to have a major role in influencing that decision that can ultimately change the course of the match physciologically especially if the challenge made was correct.

    Its better if:

    - BWF can hasten this technology and pioneer it earlier prefabably in this year BWF World Championship
    - Allow more challenge per match. Since badminton is a fast game that sometimes numerous debatable line call can occurs in a match that even in the naked eye of an experience linesman it is impossible to judge, allowing more reasonable challenge can boost the moral of a player. Importantly the quality of the match improves especially in this high level of competitiveness since the margin of success and defeat is very small and only by making errors will separate between them, any simple mistakes by a linesman that could turn out to be a good challenge from a player can change him from a loser to a winner.

    Advancement in technology for proper decision making has been part of evolution in sports and BWF has made a wise decision to do that like what tennis did and this ultimately will improve their credibility.
     
  9. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    In international cricket, the UDRS (or DRS) otherwise known as the Umpire Decision Review System has been in use for many years. This involves a Third Umpire (in addition to the 2 on-field umpires) who sits somewhere in the pavilion or in the Television production box. If a decision is referred to the third umpire, he then asks the television crew and engineers to provide him with replays and slow-mo's of the play from all available camera angles. He then arrives at a decision and informs the on-field umpires via a light signal: red if the batsman is out, green if he is not. (or is it vice versa? :D)

    Each side is allowed only 2 appeals/referrals. If their appeal is upheld, it is not counted as an appeal used.

    The UDRS or DRS requires that the association/host work out the contract with the channel that has been provided the broadcasting rights for the instant replays to be made available from specific angles and positions, to account for all possible plays and situations. HD technology helps a lot in this regard.

    However, correct and successful implementation of this system will require the installation of high-speed cameras that can capture motion at 180fps or higher; only then can the slow-mo review be accurate enough. Sony broadcast used to deploy their super-slow-mo camera systems for track events and other sports where reviews needed to be made at 500fps of higher.

    Now, imagine the cost to the broadcasting channel if it were to deploy a minimum of 6 such cameras per active court, along with other related equipment and switchers, at a SS or SSP event. It is not insignificant. They will need to ascertain if they can generate enough additional revenue to offset the costs. This in turn means that BWF and/or the host association will need to raise the profile of the event through advertising, promos, etc etc.

    Food for thought. :)
     
  10. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Not only is this good for the players (although I agree, there should be more than 2 challenges per match), but it's also good for the spectators, especially if they can also view it on the jumbo screen along with the umpire.

    If you've ever watched tennis, the replay challenge is accompanied with a lot of anticipation and vocalizing by the spectators as the jumbo screen shows the ball either miss the line or hit the line. :D
     
  11. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    ..this has been discussed and brought up before in another thread(s)..Quickest method is just re-use the slo-mo replays..it's good BWF are moving in that direction. but i just don't know how cost effective and efficient it will be to bring all the technologies (e.g. will they show replays from Qual. Rd. in every match onwards? or will they only use the technology from QF or SF Rd. onwards? If they'll only show replays from the latter rounds onward, how about the matches from the previous rounds? Seems fair or unfair? Are they going to implement this only in SS, team events, WC, OG tourneys only or incl. the GPs and GPGs as well?)..many questions to ponder..
     
  12. george@chongwei

    george@chongwei Regular Member

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    the new rule will only come into effect after the 2012 Olympic Games."

    Ok, i will wait after August 2012 then:rolleyes:;)
     
  13. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    Am specialized in cctv. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to do it. It's a matter of whether BWF want to put resources to do it. Is BWF rich enough? Not expensive also. ;) They want to hire me? lol.
     
  14. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    Good question but comparing to the obvious, tennis, hawk-eye is not available on most courts either. Serena was moaning again yesterday that she had to play on Court 2 :rolleyes: for among other reasons no challenge opportunity, oh wait that was for the "old court 2". But still, plenty of courts without camera's, let alone hawk-eye ...
     
    #14 demolidor, Jun 24, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2011
  15. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Exactly! It's simple economics. And if the Grand Slam events can't afford to provide these technologies for every match, I really don't see how BWF hopes to be uniformly fair.
     
  16. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    In Tennis as people have said hawk eye & challenges are only generally available on two courts at the GS events. I don't see this as an issue.

    In Cricket the referral system has been in use since mid 2009 & is not at every event & it is at the discretion of the ruling bodies (eg. if ENG play AUS and one of those don't want to use it, it won't be used)

    I think there is a clear distinction between these systems (Hotspot, snickometer & hawkeye) and a plain camera. The former gives a definitive answer (at least to the capabilities of the camera). The latter, proposed to be used in badminton, perhaps, doesn't. There will still be ambiguity over calls as we would be simply reviewing a video and making a personal decision from there. MOST decisions will be simple, but close ones will be impossible to tell due to the shape of the Shuttle & the angle of the cameras etc..

    I personally don't think there is much of an issue in the game. Sure there are some bad line calls, but the % is pretty low.
     
  17. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    Yes and with video replays unless there is clear evidence the ruling was incorrect the call will stand. I wouldn't be opposed, let's call it a perk of the tv court which in reality is what we will be seeing mostly anyway. I'm sure in lower level rugby there is no such thing either or even in the premiership ...
     
  18. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    It is really for the player, more than for the linesperson/umpire/spectators

    .
    What is best about the video replay system is that it allows a player to clear his/her mind from what he/she thought the previous call was made wrong. It is really for the player, more than for the linesperson/umpire/spectators.

    With the video replay system shown to the player, there will be no more nagging of doubt in the player's mind; and therefore the player will move on, to continue to play with a 'clearer' mind.
    .
     
    #18 chris-ccc, Jun 24, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2011
  19. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    In the RU premiership & Superleague they have video decisions for try decisions only. Union is quite good & fast, they only use if there is doubt. In league I find it annoying, they seem to check everyone even obvious ones & it slows the game a bit.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not a luddite, I don't mind technology coming in but surely the last bit is part of the mental side of the game? In a marginal case surely a player would be more upset if he saw the video, still thought it was in his favour, but the umpire ruled otherwise. My point over Hawkey etc.. is the computer system says Yes or No. a plain video still offers ambiguity & the opinion of the umpire/referee. I can imagine Crowds becoming agitated, Coaches getting involved etc..etc..
     
  20. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    Some old folks are just afraid to technology. ;) There are lots of smart people who can contribute to take advantage of technology. It is matured now days. It is a case of how you apply it. Experience matters. ;)
     

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