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BWF to implement a replay system to check disputes over line calls

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by chris-ccc, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    .
    Unfair-vs-Unfair??? :D:D:D

    No wonder we need the Hawk-Eye technology to monitor who the more unfair. :p:p:p
    .
     
  2. Alone

    Alone Regular Member

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    Yes and therefore we should "salute" Lin Dan for that.
     
  3. -SYC-

    -SYC- Regular Member

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    Each player should get 3 reviews each in each game, from quater final onwards.....
     
  4. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    2011 Copenhagen Masters Mens Singles Final: When Peter Gade lost

    .
    Here is another example (at the 2011 Copenhagen Masters Mens Singles Final played on 29-December);

    [video=dailymotion;xnc2ke]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnc2ke_20111229-gade2_lifestyle[/video]

    The rally was at Match Point for PG to win. JOJ hit the shuttlecock 'OUT'. But it was called 'IN' by the line judge.

    And guess what? - JOJ went on to win the match. :eek::eek::eek:

    http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/s...1A5655-F0D4-40E1-B0B6-A6F1266B966F&d=20111229
    .
     
  5. amirx2

    amirx2 Regular Member

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    i agree with the implementation of reply system. It will show through the big screen, so that all can watch. So that the umpire will think twice to be unfair. If proven, BWF must take serious action on that umpire. No need unprofessional umpire.
     
  6. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    Whoa Fellow!

    Looks like you are very passionate about umpires who are wrong. This is good.

    But try and remember this - there are many officials in the world who take decisions as they see it. All of them consider themselves to be fair to both sets of players. Look at it this way - to the umpire, it is immaterial who wins or loses.

    Replays have been shown on the big screen at most major badminton championships since many years now. In other sports, a review/challenge may be used by player. This review activity takes time. The idea of this review is to arrive at the correct decision, not to prove the unfairness of unprofessionalism of the umpire.
     
    #66 2wheels04, Dec 31, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011
  7. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    And here is a player's take on decision review and an umpire's unwanted call:
    (read about this here http://bit.ly/rXpvK8)

    It's often said that sportsmen can be incredibly selfish, and maybe a player's response to an unwanted umpiring decision is further evidence of this.

    That being the case, it still doesn't give players an excuse for questioning an umpire's decision. Whenever I crossed the line, I knew that after play I would be spending some time in the umpires' room and possibly some time on the sidelines. With every post-match meeting came the same messages. Everyone makes mistakes and the umpire's decision is final.

    And to me the gist of the matter is: Umpires and players alike should be striving for perfection with the understanding that mistakes will always be made. ... The decision review, or its absence, is going to prove controversial and I would encourage you all to take sides, because you'll have more fun if you can argue about it.
     
  8. LD rules!

    LD rules! Regular Member

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    Although the shuttle was out in this PG vs JOJ match, it was very difficult to tell, and especially at the speed and heat of the moment, sure replay and slow motion can help, but the line judge can't really be expected to make the right decision all the time, especially on a call like that...

    Anyway, guess its karma for the PG vs TH match @ AE2010 where the shuttle was called in on TH side when it was out at like 20-19 to TH and PG went on to win 20-22 in the 3rd. What goes around comes around:)
     
  9. dunmaster

    dunmaster Regular Member

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    +1.

    Hope this new rule will be in place soon.
     
  10. Maklike Tier

    Maklike Tier Regular Member

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    Badminton has needed this for a very, very long time. I'd hate to be a player looking at a replay of something only to find out that the shuttle was out when it was called in. What a horrible feeling, and what a stupid Catch22, because the Umpire has seen a mistake and has no power to change a decision based on what actually happened! Such a bizarre denial scenario.

    Part of player's training is to stay focussed and play point-for-point and accept the 'human-ness' of the umpires and line judges, but that is only a stopgap measure. Real progress will be made when human error does not have the ability to dictate the outcome of matches - not to mention it will make Badminton look more professional.

    It doesn't really matter what it takes to make it happen. The 'Hawkeye' system essentially already exists in the form of the high speed cameras many broadcasters already use, so we're not talking about a monumental step in technology.

    It simply just has to happen.
     
  11. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    There are two separate and distinct issues that may pose a problem.

    1. Economics. ROI.
    2. The nature of the game being not naturally suited to adopting some of the technologies available.
     
  12. Maklike Tier

    Maklike Tier Regular Member

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    It's going to be tough to be able to illustrate a ROI. You'd have to somehow get some statistics from other sports on how it's had a positive impact on the game, and I think this would be a big factor in getting it implemented. You'd have things such as -

    1. Added perceived professionalism of the sport that the accuracy of enforcement of the rules brings
    2. The added spectacle of line calls being an added 'novelty' to the spectating experience.
    3. Knowledge base from Cricket and Tennis on how implementation has added positively to the game

    None of these things may solely bring about increased revenue, but if you based every decision solely on that, you'd have a pretty dull experience. It would have to be thought of as simply something that raises the bar and adds to the total marketing experience, along with other things such the smash speed camera etc.
     
  13. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

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    I hope they go with some sort of replay system as opposed to a sort of 'hawk eye' setup. Critical calls in a game of badminton encompass more than just line calls. Serving is problematic with service faults being called on what at times, to me, have seemed to be a random basis. Also some of the play around the net is in need of a review mechanism. I remember one instance of a judge taking away a match point in a doubles game claiming the player struck the bird before is crossed the net. Replay showed the shuttle was well over the net when the player contacted it.
     
  14. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    i think if they adopt some sort of hawk eye system during QF, SF and F, it shouldn't be too expensive to implement...
     
  15. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    My point is that there will be more implications than just correction of the point. The act of implementation of any review system takes a finite amount of time; 15 seconds, 20, 30 seconds may elapse before a decision is made and awarded. This increases the cool-off period between points. Badminton is an anaerobic game but the intervals are ideally not supposed to be more than 10 seconds. Otherwise it affects different players (based on age and physical condition) in different ways, but mostly it affects the continuity of the game. The delay itself can be used as a weapon by the players, but that is not how the game is designed to be played. (just as walkovers are nowadays, sometimes used as a questionable weapon...)

    One way to satisfy the requirements (albeit constricted) is to limit the number of appeals per side to say, 3 per game or something. But sooner or later people will be up in arms against the injustice of that limit! :D

    And then, as I said, some of the technologies in their present state like Hotspot or such, are not really suitable for badminton. Even Hawkeye or the path-prediction technology would have to be extensively re-scripted to fit the requirements of badminton. Shuttlecocks don't behave the same way as cricket balls or tennis balls...
     
    #75 cobalt, Jan 1, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2012
  16. george@chongwei

    george@chongwei Regular Member

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    Actually there's no need for a hawkeyes system tbh.. TV camera replay at the line can do justice.. Wonder why BWF don't wanna use this:rolleyes: When are they gonna wake uP??
     
  17. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    IMO, BWF is probably heading towards video replay to assist in line calls and net play, since they've allowed the installation of net cams and line cams in the past 2 years. Otherwise, the video reviews that can be seen by all can be a source of embarrassment to the line judges and umpires if the wrong call is made and not corrected.

    In this modern age, I refuse to believe that BWF should allow important international badminton matches to still be at the mercy of human judgment and error that can inevitably arise when umpires and linesmen and service judges make a wrong call. This would only serve to foster a sense of invincinbility of themselves and a sense of unfairness and injustice for the players and viewers. The last time I checked, it's the year 2012... this is not the middle ages anymore.
     
  18. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    However care has to be taken about where the cameras are located.

    I have seen shuttlecock being viewed as hitting the line (when the camera is located outside the court pointing into the court), when the shuttlecock actually missed hitting the line (when viewed from a location facing outwards from the court).
    .
     
  19. david14700

    david14700 Regular Member

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    Are you thinking of the LiNing Masters? Ko and Yoo from Korea vs Cai and Fu. Yoo struck a net kill on game point and the umpire called a foul but Yoo was incensed and insisted that the shuttle had crossed over. TV replays showed the shuttle was about 6 inches past the net when Yoo hit it.

    From sports which already have reviews, the time taken to review a line call is rarely more than 5-10 seconds. Players spend more time than that showing dissent when they don't like a call.

    It's certainly made a big difference in tennis with players not being distracted by bad calls and having piece of mind when they get calls they don't like. The crowd actually like challenges, and they cheer the Hawkeye replays.
     
  20. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    I agree.. But I rarely hear a 'let' call after a linesman had called in or out.... extremely rare...

    the only times i heard 'let' are when the receiving player wasn't ready to receive a service
     
    #80 pcll99, Jan 3, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012

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