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BWF to implement a replay system to check disputes over line calls

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by chris-ccc, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    What we see on a two dimensional screen is very different on the court. Discussing "perspective" is beyond the scope of this forum.

    Be that as it may, your surmise about the location of camera is correct.

    People have passionately discussed the Virtual-Eye, Hawk-Eye, EagleEye, DRS technology here. Today, I read the CEO of the company that makes this technology available. It is quite an eye opener, have a read here http://es.pn/wqSQBU.

    The gist of the interview given by the CEO is: "The technology has a part to play, but it really needs to be mandated and controlled by the ICC, right down to the people who operate it. You can change the results. Everybody says you can't do it, but you can. Just move it [the camera]. It's possible."
    (ICC is to cricket, as BWF is to badminton)

    To be very frank, from the video-feed that BWF makes available, I would not want those clowns to operate these cameras. Enough to give vertigo to even the seasoned yachtsman.

    And then there is this other critical question - who will review the decision? Upstairs, okay, but who exactly? Someone who is a techie but not an umpire, or an umpire who knows and understands this technology. Looks to me there are many steps to climb, and technologies to monitor, prior to taking any decision to experiment.
     
    #81 2wheels04, Jan 4, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  2. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Australia wanted to use the DRS technology, but India said 'No"

    .
    I see your point. :):):)

    Currently (from December 2011 to January 2012), Australia and India are having our Cricket (Tests) matches.

    Australia wanted to use the DRS technology, but India said 'No".

    The final decision by the ICC was not to use this DRS technology when playing this series of matches.
    .
     
  3. a|extan

    a|extan Regular Member

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    actually whether to have cam replay or whatever aid system is dependent on the following:

    a more exciting and conversational game...... not to have aid....let the errors be debate or the discussing point by all ...

    a more factual, accurate and fair game to all.. to have electronic aid..

    so see what point u want it be...

    btw electronic aid can oso fail at times.. n since it is man made... there is a chance that it may artificially altered by some1 who wants one side to win more than the others..

    so far...those without electronic aid..are more....soccer.....n etc...

    only tennis have cam replay......as players have a few chances to contest.... the calls...

    which 1 is beta..? your call.......
     
    #83 a|extan, Jan 5, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  4. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    If the umpire is from a third neutral country, there is rarely any unfairness or biases.. just some minor error of judgment..
     
  5. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    All tournaments have this practice. This is not official policy, just a common-sense approach to what may be perceived as conflict of interest. As to your minor error of judgement angle, well, not all umpires have judgements that may satisfy rigourous standards that posters on this forum have. Perhaps people who are so much more passionate may want to take up officiating, what?

    The entire premise of this thread is based on the OP's article reference, not on any forward-looking statement from BWF. That article is probably in bit heaven now, you know the place where all dead electrons go.
     
  6. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    .
    Yes... Not many BCers get to start reading from the opening post of each thread. :eek::eek::eek:

    When our BCers reply, we need to remind them to read the opening post first.

    Many posters forget what we are discussing here, which is: In an effort to minimise disputes over line calls, the Badminton World Federation (BWF) aim to implement a replay system in matches.

    It is all about minimising disputes over line calls. It is not about whether the official is from a third neutral country or not, and/or if there are unfairness or biases from certain officials.

    It's also about umpire making the incorrect calls when they couldn't observe what actually happened.
    .
     
    #86 chris-ccc, Jan 5, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  7. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    Pardon me, but there is no umpire I know in badminton (or a referee in football) who would make an incorrect call based on what they themselves or their support team did not see.

    I understand the need for technology to provide a good accurate tool to the official to arrive at the correct decision. Unlike cricket or tennis, the needs in badminton are more time-critical. However, it is unlikely to happen anytime in the next 2 years. Many would recall even the smart bombs with high falutin technology from one of the most technologically advanced countries is faulty - they send it down to the wrong target, many times. Right then?

    I am done with this thread. Thanks for all the responses.
     
  8. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    if the replay system is implemented, would umpires be less vigilant?
     
  9. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    .
    I don't think so. If an umpire is not vigilant, players/coaches/managers can request (to the tournament referee) for that umpire to be replaced.
    .
     
  10. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    FIFA (Soccer's main governing body) is now thinking about implementing some sort of hawk-eye system (such as in tennis and cricket) or another type of replay system after immense fire from coaches and players. After a mistake by a referee in a recent semi-final where a team was given a goal when it was shown to be short of crossing the goal line by a foot.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/soccer...ls-after-awful-call-in-fa-cup-semifinals.html

    Badminton soon to follow maybe?
     
  11. Tactim

    Tactim Regular Member

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    Well, for football/soccer the option to put a hawk-eye system was a matter of not changing the nature of the game. For badminton I suspect it might be an issue more of cost rather than practicality. But then again I could be wrong. I forgot the exact cost but it's not cheap to rent out the equipment per day.

    I would love for hawkeye to be in badminton though, that would be a very good day.
     
  12. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Doubt if hawkeye system can be adapted for use in badminton. The shuttle is a rapidly decelerating high drag projectile with a flight path that can be hard to predict depending on the spin and feather condition. Very much unlike a round ball in tennis, cricket or soccer.

    Instant replay would suffice, and as we can see it is being used already for the spectators and tv audience (eg. All England). Now BWF just has to take it a step further so that the players themselves can use those replays in their limited number of challenges per game if they feel a line call was erroneous.
     
  13. Licin

    Licin Regular Member

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    I agree instant replay on the line is sufficient. Additionally BWF should give permission to the referee to overrule the line judge after the decision being made is different after instant replay.
     
  14. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    That 'mistake' was found after the match was over (because they checked the replay)? :eek::eek::eek:

    My question is: If that 'mistake' could be found after the match was over, why couldn't they check the replay instantly, during the match?
    .
     
  15. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    watching instant replay on tv, upon a challenge by any player, should be simple to implement. Both the Umpire and the Referee can be involved in this. Each side should be allowed one challenge per game only.
     
  16. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    The tournament organisers need to negotiate a contractual agreement with the television broadcaster for hook-up with the umpire's chair for replay requests. The broadcaster's live editor is usually only linked with the commentator's table. Sometimes, (in probably GPG and "lesser" SS events) even that may be missing, and the producer or editor may just be listening in to the commentator's feed on a separate talkback for cues.

    So the broadcaster is not contratually obliged to replay in such cases.
     
  17. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    Especially since live TV viewers can see it, and the people in the freakin' crowd can see it if there's a Jumbotron. No need for extra personel - just use an off-duty line judge or something.
     
  18. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    It'll often take a few of these major critical erroneous and embarrassing human judgements for the viewers and spectators to see how backwards the current system is before change will eventually come from higher up.
     
  19. Licin

    Licin Regular Member

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    Yeah, Spectators at the stadium, audiences at home, as well as umpire & players themselves might be able to witness it clearly.. For example at All England 2010, Nathan Robertson/Jenny Wallwork vs Nova Widianto/Lilyana Natsir, it is very clear that the line judge is making an error, however despite the replay has shown it clearly, umpire still does not overrule the line judge that piss Nathan Robertson off..
     
  20. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    just wondering, for tennis, do they have hawk eye in the early rounds? like round of 32?
     

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