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Cai Yun ( 蔡赟 ) and Fu Haifeng ( 傅海峰 )

Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by labyrinthian, Jun 1, 2005.

  1. Fortune

    Fortune Regular Member

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    I'm confused. So actually, the one day rest is good or not, my friend ?
     
  2. Fortune

    Fortune Regular Member

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    Post # 1620 :

    Edit : when you are extremely tired, your accuracy of shots drops drastically
     
  3. lavac

    lavac Regular Member

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    needs moar extremely tired
     
  4. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Ahh yes,my friend, on the surface you seem to have caught me contradicting myself but allow me to say that's because you inadvertently quoted me out of context.

    My first post #1612 stated that it isn't necessarily a good thing...disrupts the momentum...doing more harm than good.

    My second post #1617, after the sentence you quoted, I went on at length about the mental aspect being much more important and so on and so forth, downplaying the significance of rest day(s). To recap, I was actually saying the rest day advantage is more of the mind than the body and that practically every professional athlete is able to cope with the physical demands of their sport, only fearing injury.

    To add, I don't remember any world class player attributing their defeat to fatigue or conversely their victory to having rest day(s). I recall someone mentioning WSX once complained of tiredness (not sure in the mental or physical sense) to her coach ZN after losing to Lu Lan in the Asia BC 2011 and was roundly berated for her poor excuse.(I admit I'm not able to verify that incident).

    I would also say Bo/Mo after their resounding triumph over Chung/Lee in the LOG SF must be feeling elated and supercharged to take on Cai/Fu knowing they are at least assured of silver; therefore feeling too tired to play ought to be the last thing on their minds;on the contrary,they should be raring to go. Simply put, I doubt they were mentally nor physically too tired when playing Cai/Fu.

    Nevertheless, let's agree to disagree. Thanks for the exchange of views.
     
  5. Fortune

    Fortune Regular Member

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    If I'm not wrong, every player / pair want to avoid the toughest opponent until the final, so they can go all out, in order to win the match and also the title. If they meet in SF or before, this is the consequences : tired or even extremely tired for the next match, which can reduce your chance to win the title.
    Jung/Lee or Cai/Fu was tired or extremely tired, they still have a chance to win against BoMo. But if BoMo was extremely tired, it is game over.
    I think the comment from Nova is clear : "luckily we have one rest day for stamina recovery before competing". From this statement, I think it is physical
    Taufik, Nova, and Park Joo Bong squads are regularly train for 7 - 8 hours, but they are tired (after playing more than 65 or 70 minutes) and need one day rest to perform well in the next match. The reason ? I don't know. I have to ask them first before I can answer it.
    Indonesia still do the same thing if they played against China in the group stage, from UC 1996, SC 05, SC 09, TC & UC 2012. I don't think that the Indonesian coach are very stupid as they failed all of them except UC 96 ? Are they very stupid ? I don't think so. Korea do the same in SC 09. So Korea coach is stupid ? I don't think so.
    For SS events, I think it is just temporary. If a player / pair successfully being ranked no 25 or 26, I think they don't need to play from the qualification stage, right ? However, if we want to make it fair for everyone, then the 1st seed has to play 6 matches to win the title, compare only 5 matches in SS. Which one do you prefer ?
    we have different opinion.
     
  6. Fortune

    Fortune Regular Member

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    Thanks...:p:p:p
     
  7. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    A brief synopsis of fatigue

    http://jap.physiology.org/content/104/5/1541

    I have no doubt those athletes are at their near physical peak at the Olympics. It's extremely difficult to measure the mental fatigue. An athlete may not even recognise the mental fatigue in themselves.
     
  8. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    A very interesting,insightful synopsis from the scientific perspective, thanks for the introduction,Cheung.

    IMHO, science itself, as always and widely held, can be very advanced as far as the physical or physiological aspects are concerned but not when human affairs are involved such as in the social sciences, psychology, psychoanalysis or dealing with the emotions or what we call the 'mind' (as distinct from the human brain).

    Even in medical science, the brain and its central nervous system is the last frontier of the human body yet to be conquered; there's much that we still don't know about it unlike the rest of the body, something neuro-scientists and neurologists in general admit as much but you don't expect them to tell their patients/subjects,thereby exposing their ignorance. Pardon me if I sound presumptuous for expressing my layman's view.

    In that article you linked,let me highlight the following extract I deem worthy of our attention - note the word "psyche" (in psychology it refers to the human mind) is put in inverted commas in a way acknowledging that science has no definitive knowledge of it yet:

    "... There can be little doubt that the regulation of central motor output is crucial in determining exercise performance. The great Finnish runner Paavo Nurmi stated “Mind is everything, muscle pieces of rubber. All that I am, I am because of my mind.” The strong motivation for success, coupled with the fatigue resistance obtained through years of intense training, no doubt contributes to the outstanding athletic feats so often observed in the sporting arena. But there can be a fine line between glory and catastrophe, with this same motivation sometimes pushing athletes beyond the limits that fatigue might have ordinarily imposed. Understanding the complex links between the “psyche” and neuromuscular activation is a challenge for the future...." (End of extract).

    And, mind you (pun unintended), we aren't talking about mind-altering drugs or anabolic steroids as they are still within the domains of physiology not the 'mind' or 'psyche' as in the sense of "mind over matter". Being no expert, I shan't say more except to express some evocative thoughts.
     
  9. CanucksDynasty

    CanucksDynasty Regular Member

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    Could've, would've, should've. Life's not fair. Take the hand you're dealt and deal with it. Fact is...the best team won. End of story.
     
  10. SibugiChai

    SibugiChai Regular Member

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    is cai yun official retire now ???
     
  11. Siu Feng

    Siu Feng New Member

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    no photo for their Olympic 2012?
     
  12. george@chongwei

    george@chongwei Regular Member

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    It seems like they are going to denmark for the denmark ss...
     
  13. Giga01

    Giga01 Regular Member

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    Cai Yun and Fu Haifeng had to retire in the first round of Denmark Open! It appears to be a shoulder injury for Cai Yun. Let's hope it's nothing too serious...
     
  14. Tekkai

    Tekkai Regular Member

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    oh no thats bad! i hope its not sign of him getting old man..love watching him play!
     
  15. Ferrerkiko

    Ferrerkiko Regular Member

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    Hi Friends: Is Fu Haifeng same as Lin dan retired already ?

    Thanks
     
  16. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    From what I've gathered,they aren't retiring. Fu was reported to have said he won't retire as long as Cai is willing to carry on and they will for a few years. Until Rio OG? Not sure.
     
  17. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    I'm rather sure they won't play until 2016 (Cai IS the oldest Chinese player already :D), but currently, they don't play because of an injury Cai Yun suffered in the Denmark Open. That was the reason they had to throw the match against Shin Baek Cheol and Yoo Yeon Seong.
    I guess it did come at a good time for FHF though, that way he can get rid of that elbow injury that bothered him until the OG. Although I think he would've preferred to play the DO with elbow pain to CY getting injured^^
     
  18. Licin

    Licin Regular Member

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    Well, it would be fun to watch if they continue playing until OG 2016 at Rio. It all depends on the competition from now onwards. They will judge themselves whether would it be any medal taken at Rio or not.
     
  19. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    They will probably not compete for anything less than Gold....and I don't think they'll be able to keep up physically until then. I mean they're my favorite pair but their game is explosive attack, and that's what goes when you get older...and Korea has several strong MD pairs breaking through now. All of which are younger than Fu and can get 4 years worth of experience until the Rio Games.....I guess they want to continue until 2014 and get that elusive Asian Games Gold to show they're really the greatest of all time (so far^^) and can win every title they want.
     
  20. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I believe how long they will carry on depends more on Cai Yun who is the older of the two at 32. While not highly improbable, I think they won't play until Rio OG 2016. Meanwhile CHN is apparently working on a new pairing to take over the mantle.

    I'm also inclined to think if their chances of taking gold in Rio isn't realistic, they won't push it.
     

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