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Chen Hong - REALLY world number 1??

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by Matt Ross, Apr 7, 2003.

  1. Matt Ross

    Matt Ross Regular Member

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    Hi all,

    As we all know, world number 1 singles player is Chen Hong of China, but does he really have the style, the greatness to actually BE world number one. No doubt, he is a strong chinese player, but it seems to me he was LOTS of weekpoints.

    1. Being the power player he is, he hits ALOT out, into the net. Alot of points in the Roslim Hashim Semi were lost by Chen Hong simply cross-court smashing too much, making them go wide.
    2. When he is defending, Chen seems to struggle, and cant really do anything with the shuttle. He has one cross court whip he does when played on the backhand, but thats about it.
    3. He seems to REALLY struggle when closing off a game. This was clearly evident in the two Hashim matches when he let about 3/4 game points go due to unforced errors.
    4. Sometimes, he does try to be a little too clever with deception, and alot of the time it backfires because it goes out, etc

    So, i'm not really sure if he really is world number one status. With the malaysians coming up who show alot of speed in the mens singles game, i cant see Chen being number one for much longer, or even winning the world champs in May. What do others thing?

    Matt
     
  2. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    Matt,

    interesting, from what i can tell, your analysis is based on just the AE Open.

    it takes more than just one tournament to be world #1. it takes a lot of consistency to be world #1, and consistency for a duration of time. look at the Hashims, Hafiz may have beaten Chen in the AE, but he lost pretty early in the Japan Open, that one flash of brilliance won't bring him any world #1 status.

    Chen has been finishing on top most of 2002 and despite many of us thinks that his style is not that fluid, etc, etc. he has been consistently gaining points.

    that cannot be said about many other players.
     
  3. Matt Ross

    Matt Ross Regular Member

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    Kwun,

    I understand where you are coming from, and i have not seen that many tournaments with CH playing in them. But from what i can tell, with his performance at AE that he doesn't seem world number one material. With these loses to Lin Dan, and some early round loses (if i recall), he just doesn't seem good enough. Ok, he will be a challenge at the world champs, Hendrawan, with his sudden loss in form will lose his title, but Chen Hong will not win it.

    Matt
     
  4. Ken

    Ken Regular Member

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    World # 1

    Hi Matt,

    Would you rate Robertson & Emms world #1 and World Champs material for May 2003?!?

    Ken:confused:
     
  5. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    Matt

    Being world number 1 is a measure of consistency over a number of events in a year. Winnning the major events is more a measure of greatness than a high ranking, so don't be too bothered by the rankings. Chen has been there for some 5 months however so he surely deserves the ranking. Just this season he has gold at Denmark and Singapore, runner up at All ENgland, Indonesian and China Opens. He does however seem to struggle against the Malaysians, possibly because his size and power game are not suited to longer matches.

    WHat amazes me more is that there are four danes in the top ten and thats without Gade!
     
  6. Rohly

    Rohly Regular Member

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    I think that Chen Hong is a very good player and deserves his world number 1 spot. Firstly he has been at the top for awhile so he must be consistantly good. He is a power player and i agree that he tried the cross court smash too often at the All Englands but he definitely has more than one dimension to his game. I think that he was very deceptive and his deception shots worked most times from what i saw. He did struggle to finish the games off at the All England but he has won so many competitions he must be ok at this


    btw i have only seen him play twice at the All Englands so this is from what i have seen
     
  7. Matt Ross

    Matt Ross Regular Member

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    Hi,

    Ken: Unfortunately, even though the are world number one, they will have a tough time winning the world champs due to Kim/Ra (who emms and robertson lost to in the Japan Open by quite a large gap), Gao and her partner being world and olympic champs, they are going to have a hard time. This IS badminton, so anything is possible and the best of luck to Robertson and Emms!

    dlp: I know what you mean, Chen, like i said, IS a good player but to me, he can be very inconsistant at times. Deception works well, but makes alot of errors on it sometimes. I dont know what it is, he just doesn't seem world champ material when he plays. He is going to be a huge contender yes, but....i just dont know.
    And i know what you mean about the Danes, their system is surely paying off with all these in the top 10, truely remarkable and GREAT to see that some of the Asian dominance of the sport is starting to break up. Lets hope Gade can get back up there with the help of Morten.

    Matt
     
  8. Pecheur

    Pecheur Regular Member

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    Maybe we should break this into a new thread, however ...

    I have to say Chen Hong is fair closer to be world number 1 (standard wise) than Emms and Robertson. If you look at the top 5 men's singles players (in terms of ability, not rank), all are very close when you balance out their abilities, definately within 10% of each other, Chen Hong is No 1 due to consistency.

    Emms and Robertson are world No 1 because the top pairs don't play much, simple as that :p Last check Emms/Robertson had played 10 comps, Kim/Ra 3 and Gao/Zhang 6. If you work out the average points earned per tournament it's not even close, which looking at their record, E/R have only had one good win over the top of world class mixed competition (Sing Open 2002), all the rest have been either Euro restricted or smaller tournaments. In big tournaments where the big guns play, they don't do nearly so well. I think the main factor is the lack of play of K/R who would be taking all the big points off most others.
     
  9. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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  10. Pecheur

    Pecheur Regular Member

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    I've also mentioned it in about 10 threads ;) However the current system was put into place to encourage the Asian pairs to play more (this is a paraphrase of what the Pommy coach said before AE). Of course this backfired as most of the Asian pairs don't really seem to care who was No 1 as long as they won the big tournaments ;P

    Of course if they go out in the first round, should they really be the stars? They obviously aren't the best players ;)
     
  11. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    So do we think the 4 danes deserve their high ranking or is it just a result of the system?
     
  12. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    I know you're joking Pecheur, but for instance if at the All England Robertson /Emms lose first round to Kim /Ra (unseeded) then a tremendous amount of publicity in all media and possibly final ticket sales would be lost.
     
  13. Pecheur

    Pecheur Regular Member

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    That's a much tougher call if you divide points by comps you get (I may get this slightly wrong I'm doing this by inspection)

    Chen Hong ~370
    Lee HI ~290
    Taufik ~290
    Xia ~270
    Bao ~270
    Ramussen ~260
    WCH ~250
    Jonassen ~240
    Boessen ~210
    Hafix Hashim ~210

    Kaldau probably should be lower in the 20, but still there. However this does indicate that the Danes do indeed deserve to have 4 players in the top 20, though maybe not quite as high as they are.

    Also CH is way, way out in front so probably does deserve to be No 1.
     
  14. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    I agree CH is way out in front!

    The Danes, I like your analysis of average points P, but also there is the nature of events played to gain the points. For instance Kaldau, although a rising star, gained his ranking through winning the Portugese, German opens and reaching the bmw final, beating european opposition. Surely the ranking system needs to reflect more playing both the top european and asian events to reach the top ten in the world.
     
  15. Pecheur

    Pecheur Regular Member

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    Et tu Emms/Robertson? ;P They got to No 1 predominantly by playing Euro opposition. Maybe a solution is to make the 3, 4 and 5 star tournaments worth 50-100% more points than they are now at all levels? Meaning that to make the QF of a 4 star tournament worth more points than winning a 1 or 2 star tournament?

    Of course that'd mean the real top pairs would only bother playing in the 3 or 4 star tournaments, oh whoops ... ;)

    Don't have time to work out how much that'd effect the current rankings ;P
     
  16. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    I think all China players will admit they are not the best

    interms of skill and talent, but the one thing about Chen Hong,

    Xia, Gong. Zhou mi etc are that theyt are very consistent , generally make less

    errors than others and do well in most tournaments,

    In terms of talent, people like Gade , Martin, Taufik, etc are more talented,

    but they are unable to maintain it. Taufik eg. needs to be allowed to play his game.

    I think it's about the same as what companies define as quality= consistency,

    not necessarily best defined in narrow terms, eg standard McDonalds burgers.

    Chen Hong's performance in AE 2003 was crap.Wait till you see how Msian players

    will fare in May, I think it will be dominated by the Danish and chinese think-tank.
     
  17. fhchiang

    fhchiang Regular Member

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    hmm..

    i don't think it will be dominated by danish..........


    Korean, Chinese, Malaysian, Indonesian Are The Top Guns In Badminton...


    and... denmark has never won the thomas cup before although the got into the semis many times......
     
  18. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Matt,

    Chen Hong may not have a star-quality style that appeals to many, but as many have said, he is CONSISTENT. I love to see Peter Gade and Taufik Hidayat in action for they somehow exude that aura of "athleticism" and beauty in movement and furthermore they are young and handsome. But their form book has not been consistent. When you are world number one and have won not a few international competitions, you must be good for you must have met and beaten some of the world's best. Granted that the present IBF ranking system may not be perfect but it does serve as a benchmark. As has been said, with world-class players whose standard is not too far apart, it is the form that you display on court that matters most. A series of unforced errors can cost you the title and it's attendant rewards.

    I would not discount the Danish players in the forthcoming World Championships. Denmark has consistenly provided the world with fantastic players and truly deserves the number one tag in Europe. Despite her relatively small size, she has a rich history in world badminton and as kwun has recently alerted us, some Danish players have been inducted into the IBF Hall of Fame. Neither can I downplay China, especially the younger men players like Lin Dan and Bao. Nor can I say the same for Malaysia which caught the world by surprise in the recent All-England.

    So in the end, it is the consistency in delivery which counts ultimately. Stylish skills may faulter if one can't maintain a constant display of a vast array of strokes, superb fitness, superior tactics, tenacity and fluid mobility on the badminton court to outlast your opponent.
     
    #18 Loh, Apr 8, 2003
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2003
  19. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    That may partly explain why some players do well in a series of

    GP tournaments but not in team events.In GP events one has to beat a wide

    array of players to reach final stages, but in team tournaments, one only has

    to produce a flash of brilliance once.

    I would rate Morten Frost as the most consistent player in the worild,

    and together with Yang Yang and Sun Jun the most complete too , to handle

    any situation. Are there any today like them? Maybe Denmark can see it too,

    that's why Frost is brought in.

    Why did Taufik skip the Korean Open?
     
  20. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    So far, only Taufik has all the skills and understanding of the game. Maybe his attitude is a bit more like Zhao JH with an eye for showmanship!!
     

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