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Countering a fast singles player

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by eelvis, Oct 18, 2016.

  1. eelvis

    eelvis Regular Member

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    Played a very fast singles player with a good smash, clear and net play and was well beaten. My usual tactical and deceptive play was too easy for him. Apart from flat clears any other ideas. This boy is half my age so my speed is no match. Thanks.
     
  2. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    It seems like your skill is quite below him. No tactic is going to save you if this is the case.
     
  3. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

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    If you want us to give you any tips, you have to provide us with more information.

    How did he win his points? How did you win your points? What worked, what didn't?
     
  4. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Against a fast opponent, its a much better idea to play very high, slow clears and lifts, to keep him pinned on the back line. But as the others said - you haven't actually given us much to go on!
     
  5. eelvis

    eelvis Regular Member

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    Sorry, normally I like to move people about to get an opening, I am not very aggressive but I found that I was under pressure whatever I did, maybe I was a bit tired after a few hours playing doubles, will try next time to be more attacking.
     
  6. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    If you want to move him, then start by making sure you get his feet out the back of the court using a big high lift. A fast lift will mean he can remain in the middle of the court because he can jump out and get it early! I.e. you are not moving him with aggressive play - you need to use high defensive lifts to make him MOVE.
     
    eelvis likes this.
  7. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

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    If you were under pressure no matter what you did, I have to agree with @SSSSNT, it seems that he's much better.
     
  8. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Have a look at the thread I posted not long ago regarding countering flat attacking styles in singles. I came across the same problem, except in my scenario there was a third guy who easily won against the fast attacking guy.

    MSeeley has already said slow, high clears and this is likely to be the answer. If you can't beat him at being fast (because you aren't fast or used to playing fast) then change the game and make him play slow. Instead of smashing and driving at him, play lots of clears and drops. Instead of getting into a net battle, just lift it to the back. The idea is to wait for him to make a mistake, rather than try and force him into one.

    Every time you come under pressure, take the pace off the shuttle and reset the rally with a drop to the centre, or high lifts to anywhere on the baseline.

    Younger, faster players (including myself) tend to get frustrated and try start trying to smash from the back which just doesn't work if the opponent has a half decent defence. If you are playing guys who can smash a deep, high serve through your defence consistently, then you may have to just accept they are better.
     
    Cheung, eelvis, s_mair and 2 others like this.
  9. eelvis

    eelvis Regular Member

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    Thanks for these ideas, will try these out. Will have to up my think speed and court positioning. If I can keep in the rallys I am sure my stamina could wear him down.
     
  10. Lasitha Menaka

    Lasitha Menaka Regular Member

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    I think your too slow to him and may be your use old tactics and it don't help to you next time play full court and half court game you play half court and let him to play full court then you can read his game and you can improve your skills too..
     
  11. pepe54

    pepe54 Regular Member

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    Power or endurance maybe?

    Physically speaking and age wise, a male human reaches his peak vo2 max capacity in his 40's / 50's (surprise surprise!) :D. In other words, your endurance capacity peaks at that age. Your younger opponent might be able to outpower you in bursts initially but if you can drag the match on while keeping the pressure on, it should slide into your advantage. Hence power might help initially.

    Tactics wise, cross flat drives perhaps? Drives are just about the only shot that I can think of which forces a non-offensive reply (they can't smash or drop a drive). Why cross drives: human eyes find tracking cross movements more challenging than simple forward / backward trajectories.

    I would disagree with the defensive clears suggested above but only for personal reasons that your opponent is given the liberty to play a range of more threatening shots such as a smash or drop.
     
    #11 pepe54, Oct 27, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  12. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

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    Did you just say that a 50 year old has better stamina than a 20 year old? :D
     
  13. pepe54

    pepe54 Regular Member

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    I did, whats even more surprising is the fact that its been scientifically measured and documented. That would more or less explain why 40 y/o's like Mark Webber excel at triathalon and endurance cycling lol. Just did a quick google to locate a random example but yes, this phenomena is a new finding, along with the HIT protocol stuff if your into that.

    http://jap.physiology.org/content/71/5/2004.short

    "In conclusion, in healthy people aged 60–71 yr, VO2max adapts to endurance exercise training to the same relative extent as in young people, and this adaptation is independent of gender, age, and initial level of fitness."

    http://www.runnersworld.com/masters/age-matters-for-marathoning
    (Not an academic publication but cites multiple studies and does a meta analysis of the current literature). TLDR: For non athletes, your VO2 peaks later, in your late 30's , 40's or even 50's.

    "In fact, a 2004 study in the British Journal of Sports Medicine found that between 1983 and 1999, New York City Marathon finish times for top runners age 50 and older improved more rapidly than did times for younger athletes. In the same vein, a 2008 Austrian study found no significant difference between the finish times of the top five racers age 35 to 49 in the world mountain-running championships. The authors say the results suggest that VO2max can be held at high levels up to age 49.

    "Sure, there's an inevitable decline with aging, but people are breaking down that barrier," says Mark Tarnopolsky, M.D., Ph.D., director of the Neuromuscular and Neurometabolic Clinic at McMaster University in Ontario. Tarnopolsky won an Ontario trail-running series three times in a row, at ages 41, 42, and 43. "Last year, I was running better times in some races than I did in my 20s," says Tarnopolsky, now 45.
     
    #13 pepe54, Oct 27, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
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  14. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

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    Can you please share the link or the name of the scientific paper?
     
  15. pepe54

    pepe54 Regular Member

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    Links Updated my previous post; to be specific, I first heard of this from a documentary (think it was one of Michael Mosley's if I recall). I think the problem might lie with the fact that the majority of people fail to make any proper distinction between endurance based activities vs burst interval style activities or the different variations possible with muscle types and muscle growth.

    Everyone just assumes that muscle mass loss occurs with age and draws a simple conclusion from that but its actually more of a spurious association than actual correlation, the reality is a lot more complex.
     
    #15 pepe54, Oct 27, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
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  16. pepe54

    pepe54 Regular Member

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    Stumbled accross this match between Jan Jorgensen v Chen Long recently and thought i'd share it here with the OP.

    It seems that the answer to countering a fast, movement oriented player might lie in pure power and raw attacking techniques. Notice how the sequence oscillates between forcing a particular response. Clears and Lifts get responded with deep smashes. Smashes are replied with drop-blocks. Blocks are lifted, reiterating the cycle over.



    On that note, I think I just found my favourite badminton game style: No annoying drops and silly soft push play. Just smash, and smash, and smash till you drop LOL
     
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  17. eelvis

    eelvis Regular Member

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    Bad for shoulder joints.
     
  18. pepe54

    pepe54 Regular Member

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    In my own experience as someone new to badminton, the order of injuries which occurred to me over the past year were:
    #1 - Rolled my ankle, grade 2 sprain (mild eversion followed by inversion)
    #2 - Mild tennis elbow
    #3 - Moderate tennis elbow

    I'd say that all the joints mentioned above were injured as a direct result of my other joints being weak from a baseline perspective and were pushed too far in terms of raw intensity and duration.

    No shoulder joint or rotator cuff issues yet as I do some basic strength training and conditioning like handstand pushups / pullups / chinups that focuses on isometric and eccentric movements offcourt. If you have sturdy shoulders, worked deltoids and toned upper arms, your shoulder joints should hold up. I went nuts on monday with a bit of smashing practice but did a majority of backhands for around 3-4 hours on/off and it was my elbow that went, its still inflammed a week later lol.
     
  19. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Haha, AKA the "good offence is a good defence" strategy I see.

    The problem with attacking a fast player with smashes is you have to be faster than them if they're doing trying the same thing as you. Therefore, if you're slower than them, you'll only win if you are significantly more accurate and consistent than them.
     
  20. eelvis

    eelvis Regular Member

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    Sorry for long time to respond. Replayed game, lost but very close game. Found very deep high clears and aggressive smashes and deception. Think I have a better strategy but need to improve court footwork a little bit for success.
     
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