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Crosses snap at first cross

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by He|iX, Dec 31, 2009.

  1. He|iX

    He|iX Regular Member

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    I have strung many rackets now, but the last two ArcSabre 10's I've strung have left me really annoyed :mad: - I've done these same rackets before a few times without issue, but the last two attempts have seen me fail on the first cross.

    I use 2 piece top to bottom stringing with:

    Mains: 25lbs
    Crosses: 1-4 @ 25lbs and remaining @ 28lbs

    For these 2 rackets I used BG66 Maxima strings.

    Can anyone tell me if it would be better to not tension the first cross off the knot (I've never had an issue with this before...) and tension the second cross? :confused:

    I've checked the grommets and they are fine - not broken or sharp (at least as far as my eyes could tell). The mains are not broken when the snap occurs so it appears as though the knot is pulling through the grommet and snapping. :confused:

    Any help would be appreciated! :crying:
     
  2. kakinami

    kakinami Regular Member

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    You should string bottom to top. I usually, this is the only time I would do this, I do pull 2 crosses at once, my machines motor is a little strong so I have to do this or else the knot would break.
     
  3. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    I have seen stringers who only pull the second cross so that the knot does not fall through, but IMO they should just make their knots bigger:p. I don't recommend it, as you will lose tension on the first cross the will escape and pollute the rest of the bed.

    You certainly have the right idea in reducing the tension on the first few crosses - I myself do this when going over 30 - so I recommend you try a new starting knot. I posted a few diagrams of mine in another thread.
     
  4. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Lower tension for the first 2 crosses does not affect the the sweet-spot

    .
    Lower tension for the first 2 crosses does not affect the the sweet-spot. Perhaps it is better for you to have lower tension for your first 2 crosses.
    .
     
  5. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    You can make the starting knot larger by a few more helical wraps and/or one more loop in and out.

    If you were to tension the second cross first, you could go back to the first cross and tension it. I have tried this method many times.

    Are you guys reducing the cross tension near the top in response to keeping the head shape as close to an unstrung one as possible? You might consider a hybrid two-piece top down method - takes more time and effort. Essentially, you have an extra cross string to stabilize the middle part of the frame first. And then you start the cross at the head.
     
  6. He|iX

    He|iX Regular Member

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    Maybe I'll try a different staring knot - I've been using the Parnell knot for starting without issue until the last couple of rackets. I'll try with a starting knot like a double half hitch, however I have always just used the Parnell without problem, any thoughts here?
     
  7. He|iX

    He|iX Regular Member

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    The reduction at the top is to try and keep the head shape as you have suggested, I may try stringing throat up as Kakinami has suggested, however before that I was wanting to try starting from the middle out and see how that works - even then, I'll still drop the tension in the top 4-5 crosses to try and keep the head shape.

    Is there and benefit of stringing top down or throat up? I always thought that throat up would give a little bit more durability, but have never actually seen a difference overall. :confused:
     
  8. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    The benefit of stringing top down is to improve tension retention.

     
  9. He|iX

    He|iX Regular Member

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    Thanks, I'll try a 2PTD with a double hitch or bulky starting knot and finish with the parnell as usual.

    Any thoughts about starting crosses from the middle and working outwards?
     
  10. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    With an extra piece of temporary cross string, start out from the middle or near the bottom and stop just before where the main and cross strings intersect at the top. Clamp both ends with starting clamps. The purpose is to stabilize the shape of the lower part of the frame. And now proceed with stringing from the top. Remove two temporary cross strings at a time as you are working from the top. This method combines the benefit of 2PTD and 2PBU (BU = bottom up). As a result, it is called hybrid 2PTD.

     
  11. He|iX

    He|iX Regular Member

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    Thanks, I'll give this a go and see how it goes. :D

     
  12. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    I would recommend this method for very high tension only. The amount of work involved is just . . . too much :D.

     
  13. He|iX

    He|iX Regular Member

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    Yeah I kinda figured that I wouldn't need need to try the hybrid, so I'll be going with 2PTD:

    Mains @ 25lbs, finishing with Parnell knots
    Crosses 1-4 @ 25lbs starting with a bulky or double half hitch
    Crosses 5-22 @ 28lbs finishing with a Parnell

    Hope this will work out better for me, can't see why it's just these ArcSabre's which are a pain, other rackets have been fine, and 25/28 is not a really high tension to be honest!

    [Off Topic]
    Have just strung a Z-Slash with no issue, the grommets are tight, but still easily strung with the BG66 Maxima using the above tensions feels nice, feels around the 26lbs mark - I notice that for some reason, the grommets in the Z-Slash really like to move out after you tension a string, so after most pulls I do, had to check to make sure the grommet was still flush against the frame - anyone else experienced this?
     
  14. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    The reason why your 25 X 28 string job feels like 26 lbs (assume main = cross) is because of the 28 lbs cross tension. You went above and beyond the normal 10% on the cross :D. Please enlighten me: what tensioning and mounting system are you using?

    The NS series have this problem as well. Just make sure you use your thumb to hold against the grommet when tensioning.

    Hope this helps.

     
  15. He|iX

    He|iX Regular Member

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    I don't mind that it feels like 26lbs - that's what I like to play with, I usually like 28lbs, but didn't want to string that high until I can get 25/28 perfect (well... as perfect as I can do at my current level of stringing! :eek:)

    Here are some pics of my machine:

    DSC_0010.JPG

    DSC_0011.JPG

    DSC_0012.JPG

    What I did for the last couple of rackets was:

    Using BG66 Maxima
    Mains: 25lbs and on the last main, increase the tension to 26lbs to tie the knot
    Crosses: 27lbs across all crosses. and increase to 28 for the last cross for the knot.

    I read somewhere that someone tried 3lbs more for the crosses so I went ahead and tested it - subtle difference I guess.

    Any thoughts / suggestions here as to what tension you would use Pete LSD? (25/27? 25/28?)
     
  16. Distanc3

    Distanc3 Regular Member

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    I believe Pete will go 10% (cross fingers)
     
  17. He|iX

    He|iX Regular Member

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    I guess the problem with my machine is that it only does rounded values, so I can only do 25, 26, 27, 28 etc...... 10% would be 25/27.5lbs :confused:

     
  18. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    Unlike tie-off knots which are tied off after tensioning, a starting knot is subject to great stress as it has to hold and withstand the tremendous stress from the pulling and tensioning of the first cross string. As the starting knot tightens the knot's configurations will have an impact on the amount of friction created. Friction, especially at very high tensions, will be high for knot configurations that are too "closely" knotted. The parnell and the double half-hitch knots are too "closely" knotted and may or may not be able to withstand very high tensions.
    Turning the cross knot at the top from a true starting knot to a tie-off knot by stringing the crosses from the bottom will solve one problem, but it comes at the expense of playability.
    Try a real starting knot with many loops, as many as at least 4 to 6, before turning the end of the string back into the first loop. This way the whole knot configuration is free from "sharp" bends. Also always start with the first cross string, not the second, from the top. This gives you a really tight non-slip knot that can withstand very high tensions.
     
  19. He|iX

    He|iX Regular Member

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    Thanks for this helpful post - I've strung another using the starting knot from this link:

    hxxp://www.keohi.com/tennis/misc/knots.htm (taken from another post)

    except I have used 3 loops instead of the depicted 2

     
    #19 He|iX, Dec 31, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2009

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